16" rim up front???

Onion Man

New Member
WIthout getting into a huge debate over fashion vs function I would like to get some opinions on running a balloon tire setup with a 16" rim on the front. I have heard arguments for both sides and I am looking for more insight before i take the step of purchasing a new front end
I am building a 1984 GR650 brat/cafe/bobber/blah blah blah and I want to have the balloon tire effect.. here is a pic of my bike as of last season ( im doing a full ground up rebuild this winter) and the pic that has inspired me to run the small front rim. Basically my concern is safety.. I understand that its not gonna handle like im running performance tires but i also dont want to be tossed into the ditch the first time i try to bite into a corner.. In the pic it looks like they are running a 16" Avon Speedmaster rear tire up front on a small rim, is it dangerous to run a rear tire up front or are modern tires pretty universal??.. and since i already have a 16" speedmaster on the rear if it is possible to run one up front that would be the most economic rout to take.. also the front end is shot on my bike so replacing the whole front end to accommodate a smaller hoop is totally an option.. which brings me to my next question, for those who think its not a bad idea to run the 16 up front is there a fork/ rim setup which would fit on the gr that you might recomend??

thanks for the opinions whatever they may be
 

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Looks like the tire rubs the fork tube...and no fork brace. :eek:

As long as it is art, it looks nice...but the mechanical engineer in me says OMG.

I guess I don't understand why someone would go through all that work, and not get a wider set of triple clamps and forks, so the tires fit properly.

Not so much fashion over function, but fashion without function. If the bike can't be ridden safely and reliably, is their a point, other then the art of it?
 
Looks are deceiving. There's 5mm on each side and yes we build bikes to ride! The mechanical engineer in me wanted to build this bike by using as many stock parts as I can. Isn't that the point! Some "engineers" can visualize and solve problems using what is there! I did have to design a new caliper mounting bracket but it uses the stock caliper mounting point with the stock caliper on the stock rotor on the stock wheel on the stock fork leg using the stock triple. The bike has been ridden since to last years Mods and Rockers event in Toronto and guess what no rub! Fashion and function mydlyfkryzis !
 
16" rim up front???

Glad it doesn't rub.
No fork brace though.
I like my ride to handle as best as it can, as they aren't the best handling even when unmodified.
Without rubbing, I have no doubt you can ride it, but if the handling is compromised, rather then enhanced..well, it's not my cup of tea.


Sent from planet Earth using mysterious electronic devices and Tapatalk
 
This look seems to be Onion Man's cup of tea. As far as your fork brace fascination is concerned, if you shorten the fork travel, like I have, it makes the use of a fork brace irrelevant do to the fact the the flex of the fork tube is decreased do to the shorten distance between the fork tube and bottom triple. Speaking from an engineering standpoint that is!
 
Well, I guess I have been properly spanked.

Truthfully, if you were riding a motorcycle everyday, as your primary transportation, with a bit of highway travel needed, would this be the bike you choose?
If you had to take some bumpy roads ?
Would you ride this bike on the Tail of the Dragon?

Or would you put this motorcycle in a showroom? to show the world what can be done if you put your mind to it. What engineering as an art can do.

Since you are an engineer, and/or sell engineered parts, I am surprised you couldn't make triple clamps that were a little wider, to accommodate the wider wheel...Or am I missing something?

From an engineer's point of view..

Do you think Onion Man can add the 16's to his Suzuki, using the same care and expertise as you? Will he know to shorten the fork tubes? Will he make sure the brakes are right? Is the build you did so easy, that any teenager with too much time and little money can duplicate it?
Onion Man is concerned for safety - is there any safety concerns?

From an Engineer's point of view....

I appreciate you are a vendor here, I wasn't intending to knock the build, but if you saw a motorcycle that appeared to have the tires rubbing on the fork sliders, would you say "Nice Job!" ??

From an engineer's point of view....

You build looks like a lot of care and thought went into it. I am not into that particular style, but I can appreciate the effort and work going into it.

Maybe instead of a picture of a build, with no information, you can answer Onion Mans question about what it takes to do this.
You told me fast enough that the forks are lowered, brakes mounts are machined, but you never told Onion Man. He has some valid questions, that a picture alone does not answer. So you can shoot back at me...(ironic reference to company name) but don't disrespect Onion Man.
 
mydlyfkryzis said:
Truthfully, if you were riding a motorcycle everyday, as your primary transportation, with a bit of highway travel needed, would this be the bike you choose?
If you had to take some bumpy roads ?
Would you ride this bike on the Tail of the Dragon?

Or would you put this motorcycle in a showroom? to show the world what can be done if you put your mind to it. What engineering as an art can do.


Valid questions that Onion Man needs to answer.

mydlyfkryzis said:
Since you are an engineer, and/or sell engineered parts, I am surprised you couldn't make triple clamps that were a little wider, to accommodate the wider wheel...Or am I missing something?

BullitLogoTopTriple2-1.jpg



I think we could've managed making something. When we were planing this build one of our objectives was to use as many stock parts as we could!
Check out the site maybe there's something we provide that you can use? Sorry we don't carry fork braces at this time!
If enough clients want to convert to 16" front wheel and willing to buy kits I will accommodate but the demand at this time isn't there. We do listen to our clients and if the demand is there we accommodate not judge or cut up!

mydlyfkryzis said:
From an engineer's point of view..

Do you think Onion Man can add the 16's to his Suzuki, using the same care and expertise as you? Will he know to shorten the fork tubes? Will he make sure the brakes are right? Is the build you did so easy, that any teenager with too much time and little money can duplicate it?
Onion Man is concerned for safety - is there any safety concerns?

I don't know why don't you ask him. I'm from the school that if I can do it anybody can! I did approached this build from a standpoint of lots of time and little money.

mydlyfkryzis said:
From an Engineer's point of view....

I appreciate you are a vendor here, I wasn't intending to knock the build, but if you saw a motorcycle that appeared to have the tires rubbing on the fork sliders, would you say "Nice Job!" ??

I would have ask questions about the build before making uninformed comments so not to annoy or disrespect....

mydlyfkryzis said:
From an engineer's point of view....

You build looks like a lot of care and thought went into it. I am not into that particular style, but I can appreciate the effort and work going into it.

Maybe instead of a picture of a build, with no information, you can answer Onion Mans question about what it takes to do this.
You told me fast enough that the forks are lowered, brakes mounts are machined, but you never told Onion Man. He has some valid questions, that a picture alone does not answer. So you can shoot back at me...(ironic reference to company name) but don't disrespect Onion Man.

If Onion Man liked what he saw (or anyone) and had questions he (or they) is free to PM me and I would be glad to help him (or anyone) out in any way I know how!

I do want to apologize to Onion Man in turning his post into something that he didn't want and in my opinion the only person disrespecting is you Swivel or mydlyfkryzis whichever one you choose.

Oh by the way if spanking is your thing Swivel or mydlyfkryzis (and I respect your type of lifestyle though it's not for me) I will decline to fulfill your fantasies but if you wish to pursue the verbal jousting, continue to PM me or email me.

Rob
 
550 looks pretty neat but the tyre IS too wide for forks.
Even in picture you can see the polished area on sidewall where it has been rubbing.
I've ridden over 100,000 miles on CB550 and know very well the limitations of stock forks, wider/heavier tyre will make things worse.
A fork brace would help as forks will twist even if lowered/shortened.
You may have helped the stanchions to remain in place but the axle is the only thing holding the sliders
As an 'engineer' it should be obvious that the front axle diameter is too small to tie both sides together without twisting
I've posted multiple times how to test for twisting so I'm not repeating it again
 
crazypj said:
Even in picture you can see the polished area on sidewall where it has been rubbing.
Dude I can assure you that it doesn't rub! That's THE reflection of the Sun on the polished fork tube on the Armour All sidewall. Nice and shiny! Then for fun we put some on the treads and do burnouts! Whoohoo!

IMGP1182.jpg

IMGP1182.jpg


I did a search for your post crazypj but I couldn't find anything relating to testing. If you could send it along it would be much appreciated.
I respect your opinion but given the parameters I'm dealing with the twisting effect is negligible.
 
Stand in front of bike and grab front wheel/tyre between your knees and ankles, grab bars then just turn bars left and right while holding wheel centered.
You will be able to move bars at least 1/2" possibly a lot more (depends how strong you are overall)
The forces acting on front end are much stronger when you have at least 450 lbs of motorcycle causing the movement
You seriously didn't 'Armour All' the tyres? (I can see it wasn't all the way across sidewall)
The shiny bit I'm refering to is about 1/2" wide above second white line
 
You can choose to believe what you want but the tire doesn't rub because wouldn't you get a rub mark on the fork leg? Guess what? No rub!!! Oddly enough even though I'm a 200lbs weakling it doesn't flex. No I didn't use Armour All....just No Touch Tire Care! ;D
 
They ALWAYS flex a little, maybe you didn't do it right?
Few years a go I checked Jason (at DCC) CB450 bobber.
I think it may have been even lower than your 550?
It didn't move much, but, it moved
Whatever, as long as your happy with it.
Maybe you know what your doing, there are an awful lot of people who just see something and want to do the same without the faintest idea of how or why various things were done and will build something real dangerous
BTW, in the first pic, it really does look like it was rubbing and caused shiny side to tyre
I guess one real advantage of the 'sidecar tread' Firestone tyres, you would have a hell of a time keeping 'chicken strips' ;D ;)
 
Welllllll....I had a hunch this topic would bring out some strong opinions and it definitely wasn't my intent to stir the pot.. That being said.. strong opinions do often lead to good information and I do believe I am getting good arguments from both sides..

First off @ Redline, Your bike looks amazing! I love what you have done with it. The wheels are exactly the look i am going for and it is encouraging to hear that you where able to get more stability by lowering the front end. I would love to hear more about the process

@mydlyfkryzis, although im sure you do have some valid points, instead of offering them in a constructive manor that would help shed some light on my original question you choose to make accusations about redline's bike based on a photograph which in turn completely hijacked this thread and turned it into an argument and not a constructive conversation between knowledgeable people with a shared passion.

As for the question of weather or not I am capable of building a bike that can run a 16" hoop.. I am neither a teenager with too much time on his hands or a mechanical engineer.. I am someone willing to do the necessary research before they jump into a decision that will be influencing the entire direction of the build I am currently planning..

SO back to the topic at hand, I am looking for a setup that can run a 16" front end with a large tire and if one exists that will safely bolt up to the front of a GR650 I am basically just looking for a push in that direction.. But, In the more likely case I am going to have to do some fabricating to make this bird fly. Fortunately I am building my bike in the loft of a friends industrial hydraulic manufacturing and machine shop with access to nearly every metalworking tool under the sun(and the guidance of an industrial millwright on how to use them) So if I have to custom build a triple tree and fork brace it wouldn't be too much trouble if that is the safest way to go about it.


for those of you concerned about safety could you please elaborate on where your concerns lie? Is it with the dated style and tread patterns of the balloon style tires? is it with people fitting the wrong size tires to the wrong rims? or is it to do with handling when a large front tire is holding you in the corner?? if I fit a custom triple tree and a custom fork brace would that make it a safer option?its not that I have made up my mind to ignore safety cautions but I am way into the style and am looking for a clear reason not to go ahead with it.

And I honestly do appreciate all the input no matter what side of the line you land on

thanks again lads
 

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I'll try to address the answer the way I think it was intended, but I hate those stupid antique car tires. IMHO they have no place on the front of a motorcycle.

Why? because they are really not designed for it. There are many issues but let's focus on a few.

The tall and wide sidewalls tend to deflect and that makes the handling and steering even less precise that it was before.

The profile is fine for upright riding but totally unsuitable for much more than about 5-10 degrees of lean. As the bike leans over the whole front end geometry changes because of the tire shape.

Steering geometry has probably changed too and needs to be calculated or measured.

The forks need a brace to reduce fork flex.

I have no idea what the carcass construction is or what rubber compound they use, but one day, someone will find out as they try to ride home fast to get out a rain shower. I'm pretty sure it's not modern high silica sticky race rubber though.

Bottom line: It's a motorcycle First and art project second and not the other way around, so I would leave those to the SHOW crowd for bikes that are not intended to be ridden.

That's my opinion, YMMV. :)
 
@teazer I definitely understand why classic car or high walled trailer tires wouldn't handle well or corner well.. If you look at my original inspiration picture I am wondering about running rear avon safety milage mk2 am7 5.00-16 TT.. Although its vintage design its a motorcycle tire made from motorcycle tire compounds and designed for leaning into corners and if the overall rolling diameter doesn't change much then the geometry shouldn't Right?? My thoughts are compensating the smaller rim with a larger sidewall is this right??
heres a link to the tire i'm thinking of. Its a rear tire, does that make a difference?

http://www.avontyres.com/node/3314

i have also heard the suggestion of using a continental conti twin k112 because if the more modern design.. thoughts???

thanks for the info
 
I can't say I like the goofy big tyre look, but anyway....

A GSX750EF front end circa 83-85 will bolt straight on (same head bearings). That gives you a 16" front wheel, slightly wider trees and 37mm forks.

And it should be cheap ;)
 
16" rim up front???

Onion Man,
The teenage comment wasn't directed at you, but others who get ideas from these threads.
Maybe I was mistaken, but the sidewalks look like they are rubbing, seems others noticed that too. Not an accusation, but an observation.
There is no fork brace. He required some special machining for the brakes. He lowered and shortened the forks.
Did he mention that before my observations? No. Others may see the picture and not know the issues.
Instead of just pointing them out, he took a jab at my ability as an engineer. Others have concerns about the build too.
Good luck with your build. You seem careful and are asking the right questions. This is a public forum and I only expressed my opinion. You can put me on ignore, if you don't want to see them. I did not intend to hijack the thread, or be a troll. Remember though, it takes 2 to tango.


Sent from planet Earth using mysterious electronic devices and Tapatalk
 
hillsy said:
I can't say I like the goofy big tyre look, but anyway....

A GSX750EF front end circa 83-85 will bolt straight on (same head bearings). That gives you a 16" front wheel, slightly wider trees and 37mm forks.

And it should be cheap ;)

Just want to add: that 16" wheel is a mag wheel. And the matching rear mag has a disc brake (but look on eBay for the swinger from a GS750E and compare it to the GR's.........)
 
hillsy said:
I can't say I like the goofy big tyre look, but anyway....

A GSX750EF front end circa 83-85 will bolt straight on (same head bearings). That gives you a 16" front wheel, slightly wider trees and 37mm forks.

And it should be cheap ;)

Thanks for the tip hillsy but I am looking for spoked rims and the GSX750EF only seems to come with mags

If i can't make the look work safely I will just find some GR650X spokes and run stock sizes.

thanks again everyone for the feedback
 
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