cl360 Pamco installation / kill switch question

hillset

Active Member
Hi Everyone,
I have a 74 cl360 and I just finished installing a Pamco electronic ignition. The installation went fine and I have a spark in both plugs, but I noticed after I installed the unit that my handlebar kill switch no longer works. When I put the handlebar kill switch in either of the "OFF" positions, I can still press the start button and get a spark.

Initially, I thought I made a mistake in wiring the Pamco unit to the black/white stock wire that runs from the kill switch to the coils, but when I tested the black/white wire with my voltmeter and the coils unplugged, I can see the voltage output drop to 0 with the kill switch set in the "OFF" position (see the attached image).

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I have the red wire from the Pamco unit attached to the black/white stock wire from the left coil at the connection to the other coil (see image). I also haven't actually turned the engine over and tested timing with the new Pamco unit installed, I've just checked for spark in both plugs.

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I've been staring at wiring diagrams all afternoon and I'm not really sure where to go with this. Please let me know if there is anything else I can check or if I've incorrectly wired the Pamco unit to the kill switch, and thank you for your help.
 

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I’m pretty sure the red wire has to go to a 12v switched source, like the ignition switch. The kill switch is only a ground (completes circuit) not sure where the other 12v is coming from, but don’t get the wiring confused. Honda used green and black as ground wire color. Looking at the Pamco diagram it looks like the green wires from the Pamco unit are being used as signal wires to the coils ( blue and yellow) just my 2cents I may be wrong.


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Hey Miller- Thanks for the reply. I wired the red wire to the black/white wire from the kill switch per this diagram from the Pamco website (cb360ignition.com). Are you saying I should take the red wire from the Pamco unit and disconnect it from the black/white wire from the coils, then reattach it to the ignition switch (where I put my key)? Sorry if I sound basic, I'm still new to wiring. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
 

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The diagram you just posted looks correct to me.

Pamco gets power on the red wire from the black/white wire leading from the kill switch. The black/white wire also provides power to the ignition coils.

If the kill switch is in the off position, there should be zero volts on the black/white wire and therefore no power to the Pamco or the ignition coils.
 
Hey Sonrier- Thank you so much for the reply. What you said is what I was thinking as well, red wire from the Pamco gets power from the black/white wire from the kill switch to the coils. if the kill switch is in the off position, black/white wire should have no power, and pamco should have no power. This is what I confirmed with the test I posted in the first picture (kill switch in OFF position, black/white wire reads 0v, kill switch in RIDE position, black/white wire reads 13.5V).

I'm still confused as to why I'm able to start the bike with the kill switch in the OFF position. If the black/white wire has 0v with killswitch in OFF, how does pressing the start button still allow the bike to start?

For example, I put the red prong of my multimeter on the black/white wire, grounded the black, and switched the kill switch to OFF. The multimeter showed 0V. When I put the kill switch to RIDE, the multimeter showed 13V, which tells me the kill switch unit and the wiring leading from the battery --> killswitch --> black/white wire is working properly. However, with the kill switch still set to OFF and the multimeter still showing 0V, I pushed the start button and heard the engine try to start. How is that possible? Is there something else I should be checking?

Thank you so much again for your help Sonreir, I really appreciate it.
 
The starter circuit on the 360s is not tied to the ignition circuit. If you press the starter button with the kill switch in the off position, the engine will turn. There shouldn't be any spark though.
 
:eek: I'm an idiot...thank you so much for your help Sonrier, I really appreciate it. Just checked it and you are correct, with killswitch in OFF there is no spark. Now I need to work on getting it to idle with the new pamco, currently its just sparking but not starting up.
 
If it starts backfiring but still won't idle, you might have the trigger wires swapped from left to right.
 
hillset said:
Hey Miller- Thanks for the reply. I wired the red wire to the black/white wire from the kill switch per this diagram from the Pamco website (cb360ignition.com). Are you saying I should take the red wire from the Pamco unit and disconnect it from the black/white wire from the coils, then reattach it to the ignition switch (where I put my key)? Sorry if I sound basic, I'm still new to wiring. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

Doesn’t matter, as long as it’s getting 12v from a switched source.


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Hey Sonrier and Miller- I've been trying for the past day to get the bike to start and I'm still having trouble. Checked compression and fuel to the carbs, taken both carbs off and cleaned them, and replaced the spark plugs, but I'm still not getting ignition. I've also pulled both spark plugs and visually confirmed I'm getting a blue spark visible in daylight on both plugs. The engine is turning over, but won't start to idle.

I was checking my coils today and I'm wondering if one of the secondary windings is bad. Here is what I got when I tested my coils:

Red lead from multimeter to yellow lead from coil, black lead from multimeter to black/white wire from coils: 4.5 ohm
Red lead from multimeter to blue lead from coil, black lead from multimeter to black/white wire from coils: 4.5 ohm

Red lead from multimeter to right spark plug cap, black lead from multimeter to black/white wire from coils: 18k ohm
Red lead from multimeter to left spark plug cap, black lead from multimeter to black/white wire from coils: no reading (multimeter says OL)

So from what I've read, this seems like the secondary winding on the left coil has failed. Is this correct? Is there something else I can check before I order new coils?

If I need to order new coils, is there a brand that is recommended? If not, I was planning on using the coils from common motor collective.

Also, could a failed secondary winding on one coil prevent the bike from starting? It seems like if I'm getting a blue spark in both spark plugs thats visible in daylight, that should be sufficient to ignite any fuel thats getting into the cylinder, but I could be wrong.

Just for giggles I swapped the blue and yellow wires per your recommendation Sonreir, and the bike kept backfiring so I switched them back. I feel confident the Pamco unit is wired up correctly, I'm just not getting ignition of fuel. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
 
If you're getting spark, the problem isn't likely to be with the coils. And if you've checked compression and the numbers are good, that leaves only a couple of possibilities.

1.) Your spark is not timed correctly. Double check timing.
2.) You're not getting enough fuel. After attempting to start the bike, are the spark plugs wet? A dozen kicks or so should make the insides of the cylinders very wet with fuel. It will be noticeable. If they're not wet, try pulling the plugs and spraying ether into the cylinders before sealing everything back up. If you get a couple of putters then you know the fueling is a problem.
3.) You're not getting enough air. It's possible to dial out the idle so much that the butterflies in the carbs close completely and do not allow enough air to enter the cylinders. Crack the throttle a hair when trying to start the bike and see if that changes things.
 
Sonreir, thank you so much for the quick reply. I was concerned about timing but I'm not sure how to test timing on a Pamco unit without getting the bike to idle. The timing instructions on the cb360ignition.com website refer to timing at idle, but I'm not able to get to idle yet. How should I check for timing without being able to idle the bike?

I also checked the plugs to see if they were getting fuel into the cylinder after I did the compression test. The right plug was wet and smelled of fuel, the left plug was less wet and didn't smell as strongly. I believe there is fuel getting into the left cylinder, just not as much as there should be. When you say "spray ether into the cylinders before sealing everything back up", do you mean take the carbs off and spray ether into the cylinders? For someone who doesn't have ether sitting around at home, is there another substitute?

I checked the butterfly valves in the carbs when i took them off to make sure they were getting some air with the throttle closed. The idle adjustment screw is out 1 turn on both carbs which gives me approx. 1/4" clearance between the valve and the bottom of the carb.

For what its worth, I'm using mikuni vm32's which the PO put on the bike and I know your feelings about vm32s on cb360s per reading your previous responses. I'm planning on getting vm30's sometime soon when finances permit, but I should be able to at least get to idle with these carbs correct?
 
hillset said:
Sonreir, thank you so much for the quick reply. I was concerned about timing but I'm not sure how to test timing on a Pamco unit without getting the bike to idle. The timing instructions on the cb360ignition.com website refer to timing at idle, but I'm not able to get to idle yet. How should I check for timing without being able to idle the bike?

Not sure about with the Pamco, but a test light might still work? A strobe light should still work, but it might be tricky to use at starting speeds. An extra set of hands might be necessary.

hillset said:
I also checked the plugs to see if they were getting fuel into the cylinder after I did the compression test. The right plug was wet and smelled of fuel, the left plug was less wet and didn't smell as strongly. I believe there is fuel getting into the left cylinder, just not as much as there should be. When you say "spray ether into the cylinders before sealing everything back up", do you mean take the carbs off and spray ether into the cylinders? For someone who doesn't have ether sitting around at home, is there another substitute?

Or through the spark plug hole, yes.
 
Sonreir said:
Not sure about with the Pamco, but a test light might still work? A strobe light should still work, but it might be tricky to use at starting speeds. An extra set of hands might be necessary.

On the Pamco website, they recommend testing the timing by attaching your strobe light to the spark plug wire and looking for alignment at the LT mark on the alternator while the bike is idling. How can I do this without idling the bike?

Sonreir said:
Or through the spark plug hole, yes.

Stupid question, but by ether do you mean gasoline?
 
hillset said:
On the Pamco website, they recommend testing the timing by attaching your strobe light to the spark plug wire and looking for alignment at the LT mark on the alternator while the bike is idling. How can I do this without idling the bike?

It'll still spark when the bike is trying to start (but not yet idling). Same procedure, but slower flashing means it might be a bit harder to see.

hillset said:
Stupid question, but by ether do you mean gasoline?

Nope. Ether is much more flammable than gasoline. Often called starting fluid, it comes in an aerosol can, usually.
 
Ok so instead of idling the bike just hold the start button in and check for alignment of the LT mark on the alternator cover while the bike is trying to start?

And I'm on the same page about the ether now, I have a can of starting fluid at home I bought for my lawnmower I'll give that a try.

Thank you so much for your help Sonreir, seriously can't tell you how helpful it is to have some guidance on these things.
 
hillset said:
Ok so instead of idling the bike just hold the start button in and check for alignment of the LT mark on the alternator cover while the bike is trying to start?

And I'm on the same page about the ether now, I have a can of starting fluid at home I bought for my lawnmower I'll give that a try.

Thank you so much for your help Sonreir, seriously can't tell you how helpful it is to have some guidance on these things.

Yeah. Don't run the starter for more than 10 or 15 seconds a time, though. If you can get it to work, the kick starter might be a better idea.
 
Well Sonreir bad news...I got the timing light and the timing was way off, I believe I might have put the plate in facing the wrong direction although originally I matched the picture on the cb360ignition.com site. Originally I had the two circuit boards of the unit facing 6 and 9 oclock, but I decided to rotate to 6 and 3 oclock. This got me a little closer but I was still about 40 degrees off, so I decided to rotate the plate to 12 and 3 oclock.

I had taken off the e-advance and re-adjusted the Pamco plate (where the points used to sit), was in the process of tightening the bolt from the advancer to the camshaft and felt the bolt give...pulled the bolt out of the points and looked at a sheared piece of camshaft on the other end :-\

So I guess my next step is to buy a new camshaft? How did this break so easily? I wasn't applying sideways pressure, and the bolt wasn't even tightened all the way when I felt it give. I guess it doesn't really matter at this point...

Any recommendations on where to get a new camshaft? I guess I've also bought myself a top end rebuild in the process, any advice / recommendations for taking this on? Thanks again for your help, I'm super bummed about how this turned out.
 
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