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Turn your Brain Off and Shoot the Shit => Politics / Religion / Debates => Topic started by: stroker crazy on Jul 28, 2017, 02:53:48

Title: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 28, 2017, 02:53:48
Got to love the Mooch!

A class act: http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Jul 28, 2017, 11:17:25
Sean Hannity was there!? So why not Rush Limbaugh too? The clown car has grown into the Clown Train.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: jag767 on Jul 28, 2017, 11:26:45
I love how he gave this long winded rant about firing and prosecuting anyone that leaks information, and the same day his financial disclosures are leaked, lol!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 28, 2017, 12:24:13
I love how he gave this long winded rant about firing and prosecuting anyone that leaks information, and the same day his financial disclosures are leaked, lol!

Those financial disclosures are actually public record. He just didn't know that I guess.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: jag767 on Jul 28, 2017, 17:23:26
Those financial disclosures are actually public record. He just didn't know that I guess.

Nor did i, and that makes it so much better since he reportedly contacted the fbi over it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 28, 2017, 18:13:44
Only fitting that there's a president who brags about grabbing pussy who now has a communication director who claims he's not sucking his own cock -- don't get mad! Their words not mine.

But certainly the clown car has gotten bigger, and comedians and satirists are loving life.
Title: "the Mooch"
Post by: runmikeyrun on Jul 30, 2017, 19:42:00
Only fitting that there's a president who brags about grabbing pussy who now has a communication director who claims he's not sucking his own cock -- don't get mad! Their words not mine.

But certainly the clown car has gotten bigger, and comedians and satirists are loving life.
I find it ridiculous that the same older generation who complain about "kids these days" being irresponsible, crude, selfish, without morals, etc vote for someone who is exactly that.  How they claim these kids are ruining America, but someone who acts just like them is going to make America great again.  I always point out hypocrisy no matter the political party, but the republicans are making it too damn easy.


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'71 Kaw 250 Bison
'81 KZ750 cafe
'94 XR250L
2014 Yamaha Bolt

In progress: '68 CL350
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 30, 2017, 21:33:12
https://www.facebook.com/TheWeekInTrump/videos/674800952716156/

tip o' the iceberg.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jul 31, 2017, 11:53:50
Is this the new place to hate republicans? The new unicorn water fountain lol

Wait till Sessions gets in the HLS position... immigration will never be the same hahaha!


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 31, 2017, 12:27:25
Is this the new place to hate republicans? The new unicorn water fountain lol

Wait till Sessions gets in the HLS position... immigration will never be the same hahaha!

Love ya boo! Triggered much?

Say something good about Scaramucci. Tell us why he's a great man and worthy of the position.

I don't think anyone here "hates republicans," but most people with even a basic idea of what is happening the US -- including most republicans who are now in near-open revolt against your president -- are troubled. And hey, if you want to back an AG with a racist past (you know, the whole KKK thing) and trust him on immigration beat my guest. You don't read much, do you boo?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jul 31, 2017, 12:43:28
Love ya boo! Triggered much?

Say something good about Scaramucci. Tell us why he's a great man and worthy of the position.

I don't think anyone here "hates republicans," but most people with even a basic idea of what is happening the US -- including most republicans who are now in near-open revolt against your president -- are troubled. And hey, if you want to back an AG with a racist past (you know, the whole KKK thing) and trust him on immigration beat my guest. You don't read much, do you boo?

And here you are again Chicken... never takes much stink bait


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 31, 2017, 13:43:03
And here you are again Chicken... never takes much stink bait

Love you boo! And same to you!

Now...

Say something good about Scaramucci. Tell us why he's a great man and worthy of the position.

Add something to the conversation! Defend your heroes! Show us what you got!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jul 31, 2017, 15:42:32
Love you boo! And same to you!

Now...

Add something to the conversation! Defend your heroes! Show us what you got!

I'm not interested in playing your little girl games boy... find a cute 10 year old to play with.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2017, 16:05:53
10 days. That has to be a record.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 31, 2017, 16:22:55
I'm not interested in playing your little girl games boy... find a cute 10 year old to play with.

Shoot boo, I thought I was with you! XOXO!

The Mooch? The moot. In for just long enough to be fodder for jokes and then not even Trump could take it.

Historically, categorically, objectively the worst run administration in American history?   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 31, 2017, 18:33:14
Bye, bye!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: runmikeyrun on Aug 04, 2017, 19:59:09
It's a joke, really.


Here's where I list all my bikes:
'71 Kaw 250 Bison
'81 KZ750 cafe
'94 XR250L
2014 Yamaha Bolt

In progress: '68 CL350

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 05, 2017, 09:37:50
It's a joke, really.

Not for everybody!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: runmikeyrun on Aug 05, 2017, 16:55:37
Not for everybody!
Those poor cartoonists.  Is there no limit to the wrath of Trump?


Here's where I list all my bikes:
'71 Kaw 250 Bison
'81 KZ750 cafe
'94 XR250L
2014 Yamaha Bolt

In progress: '68 CL350

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 07, 2017, 12:07:53
The Trump "wrath" is just warming up... if you get real close the dudes just inside the legal boundaries and must have some decent advisers to allow him to retaliate against the fully focused left to destroy him. Hope takes out a HUGE pile of garbage before it ends


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 07, 2017, 12:53:00
The Trump "wrath" is just warming up... if you get real close the dudes just inside the legal boundaries and must have some decent advisers to allow him to retaliate against the fully focused left to destroy him. Hope takes out a HUGE pile of garbage before it ends

Just what America needs: a "wrathful" president who will take out Americans who are considered "garbage."

Or: he's nowhere near smart enough to have any idea what he's doing, he's been completely ineffective at everything he's tried, and he is hanging on by a thread because he's done so much dubious shit -- legally, diplomatically, morally -- that even his own party has turned against him. But there is a still a small cadre of his followers who don't read the news and aren't smart enough to see that cutting off one's nose to spite one's face is never a good idea.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: jag767 on Aug 07, 2017, 14:06:43
Just what America needs: a "wrathful" president who will take out Americans who are considered "garbage."

Or: he's nowhere near smart enough to have any idea what he's doing, he's been completely ineffective at everything he's tried, and he is hanging on by a thread because he's done so much dubious shit -- legally, diplomatically, morally -- that even his own party has turned against him. But there is a still a small cadre of his followers who don't read the news and aren't smart enough to see that cutting off one's nose to spite one's face is never a good idea.

This.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 07, 2017, 19:15:31
Ha!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 08, 2017, 13:37:41
Seems more than one phone call has surfaced lol but I stoped looking at comic books at about age ten.

This is interesting tho.

Los Angeles County has told the project that “the number of registered voters now stands at a whopping 144% of the total number of resident citizens of voting age.”


There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 3,084 of them. Clinton won 57. Those areas won by Clinton all contain sanctuary cities. One need not be a genius to figure this election out.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 08, 2017, 14:33:06
Seems more than one phone call has surfaced lol but I stoped looking at comic books at about age ten.

This is interesting tho.

Los Angeles County has told the project that “the number of registered voters now stands at a whopping 144% of the total number of resident citizens of voting age.”


There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 3,084 of them. Clinton won 57. Those areas won by Clinton all contain sanctuary cities. One need not be a genius to figure this election out.


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Those numbers are the product of Brietbart Fake News. Clinton won at least 487 counties. Though counties are a pretty piss poor measure of vote as population is not spread evenly within counties. Clinton actually had 2.8 million more votes. Of course none of that matters, Trump won the electoral college and is POTUS. As a result I can't imagine why you would present any sort of election results, made up or otherwise. Took a page out of Trumps playbook I guess.

At least the LA voter numbers are correct, but as Judicial Watch (a conservative watch dog group) states, they are contesting lack of maintenance of voter rolls in regards to the death of registered voters. It has nothing to to do illegal votes.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 08, 2017, 17:22:33
Those numbers are the product of Brietbart Fake News. Clinton won at least 487 counties. Though counties are a pretty piss poor measure of vote as population is not spread evenly within counties. Clinton actually had 2.8 million more votes. Of course none of that matters, Trump won the electoral college and is POTUS. As a result I can't imagine why you would present any sort of election results, made up or otherwise. Took a page out of Trumps playbook I guess.

At least the LA voter numbers are correct, but as Judicial Watch (a conservative watch dog group) states, they are contesting lack of maintenance of voter rolls in regards to the death of registered voters. It has nothing to to do illegal votes.

BS... voter fraud is real and it needs to be put to an end before the next election... I am for a chipped ID that ONLY a US citizen with a continuous 24 months of verified residency is established... nothing not a drivers license down to a library card will be considered valid until those 24 months has passed. No more goddamn freeloaders period.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 08, 2017, 20:13:05
Yeah, me too.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 08, 2017, 20:38:40
BS... voter fraud is real and it needs to be put to an end before the next election... I am for a chipped ID that ONLY a US citizen with a continuous 24 months of verified residency is established... nothing not a drivers license down to a library card will be considered valid until those 24 months has passed. No more goddamn freeloaders period.

Voter fraud is not real (at least not in any significant way, certainly not enough to influence a presidential election). When you make claims such as these, do you have any real evidence to back it up? The answer to this one is no, because it's not real. As folks here hashed out in previous threads, voter ID laws have been struck down as unconstitutional because the disenfranchise POC and others. You can hold another opinion, but the constitution is not on your side.

But rather more pressing, how about the pissing contest between Trump and Kim Jong Un? It's like two testosterone fueled 13-year-olds going at it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Aug 10, 2017, 13:33:01
It's pretty clear who is advising Trump. Captain Ebola himself.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 10, 2017, 14:56:41
And an update on "voter fraud," which itself is a fraud, courtesy of the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/10/in-a-new-poll-half-of-republicans-say-they-would-support-postponing-the-2020-election-if-trump-proposed-it/?utm_term=.8e56a84f5b42

Just read the headline in the url. Ouch.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 10, 2017, 17:54:14
He's back!

Temporarily.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Aug 10, 2017, 20:12:29
BS... voter fraud is real and it needs to be put to an end before the next election... I am for a chipped ID that ONLY a US citizen with a continuous 24 months of verified residency is established... nothing not a drivers license down to a library card will be considered valid until those 24 months has passed. No more goddamn freeloaders period.


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Time to call BS on that fake news .  First off, it was nowhere near 144%.  That was bogus.  Next the data included "inactive voters".  Those are names of people who have not voted recently, are not canvassed and did not turn up to vote this time either.  They are left in an inactive status in case there is some valid reason that they have not been voting but are still alive and eligible to vote.  That would for example include people who did not want to vote for Obama and now don't see any point in voting for Chump either.

Since they did not vote this time either, there was no fraud.  Just more baseless, fake news from the far right that are positioning the country to cancel the 2020 elections to allow Chump to stay in power for as long as they want a frat boy to represent them.  And by "them" we are not talking about voters.

I'm not against voter ID though.  That just makes common sense and we should be able to get all old, poor etc voters into the system that currently may have difficulty.  There is time if we start now, but that effort cannot be the way that some states seem to want to do it by simply banning people who don't currently have valid ID as defined now. That won't fly any more than just turning up to vote should. If tit's an issue, we should make it easy for those folks to register and to validate their registration through simple processes. 

By the same token, a semi secret panel in the White House cannot be expected to conduct any sort of fair review of voters.  They could go out in the field and conduct tests and interviews and pull together a list of best practices for states to consider and implement.  They could invite Secretaries of State from all states to have input to the process.

Much more to the point is that the Government has zero right to voter data of any sort.  Where does the constitution say they can demand details of soc. numbers and how individuals voted and their full names and addresses? How soon before they start to use that dat to target people in all manner of ways eg through IRS audits or ..insert your own pet fear here...


Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 14, 2017, 12:36:36
I'm following the insanity that was the white supremacist march in Charlottesville last weekend. What the hell is going on? Trump's mealy mouthed pseudo condemnation of events was ridiculous; there's no doubt his rhetoric has given these bigots the confidence to do this kind of shit.

On the positive side, dunno if anyone's seen it but the "yes, you're racist" twitter handle is outing these people and they're facing consequences, such as being fired from their jobs.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 16, 2017, 22:56:54
I'm following the insanity that was the white supremacist march in Charlottesville last weekend. What the hell is going on? Trump's mealy mouthed pseudo condemnation of events was ridiculous; there's no doubt his rhetoric has given these bigots the confidence to do this kind of shit.

On the positive side, dunno if anyone's seen it but the "yes, you're racist" twitter handle is outing these people and they're facing consequences, such as being fired from their jobs.

So you got fired?

That whole "show" was well planned by the the racist Left and Soros thugs and now that the video evidence is surfacing not even CNN can push it back.

I would say that these protest groups on both sides of racism are nothing more than misinformed, weak mined trash... but I'm sure you had a good time watching Chicken.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 17, 2017, 02:01:14
speaking of racists …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 17, 2017, 09:13:58
speaking of racists …


If your a lefty you have no choice but to believe that... some of US have minds of our own tho.

Here's another opinion:, but it's TV and has lost all credibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2_S3KIV9aA&sns=em




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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 17, 2017, 12:23:28
So you got fired?

That whole "show" was well planned by the the racist Left and Soros thugs and now that the video evidence is surfacing not even CNN can push it back.

I would say that these protest groups on both sides of racism are nothing more than misinformed, weak mined trash... but I'm sure you had a good time watching Chicken.


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Where has the evidence surfaced exactly?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 17, 2017, 13:38:13
Where has the evidence surfaced exactly?

Not that I agree with one side or the other, but there are videos all over Facebook of the Antifa crowd swooping in and throwing punches seemingly unprovoked, physically, anyhow.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 17, 2017, 15:07:18
Not that I agree with one side or the other, but there are videos all over Facebook of the Antifa crowd swooping in and throwing punches seemingly unprovoked, physically, anyhow.

Okay, but that doesn't really answer the question. Even if they were throwing punches, where is the evidence that they are racist, of the left, and Soros' own thugs were there and acting racist. Punches alone don't make them employed by Soros, racist, or of the left. Maybe they are just angry because a bunch of rich white privileged kids were able to afford the day off to protest the removal of some transparently racist statues. At best you could say that the proposed charges could be considered hard to prove, but in reality they are based on nonsense. Sure, there are assholes in every group. Hell, a white nationalist killed a woman, but instead of apologizing and pointing out actions of terror where they are due (good job Donnie) we are trying to prove that the other side didn't have permits and make the other side out to be equally as bad. It's a moral false equivalence really. The majority are saying that the white nationalists spew hate, obviously true. Those defending the white nationalists are attempting to say that the other side is just as bad. That again is a logical fallacy. Address the criticism of the white nationalists, one of which murdered a person at that very rally, the rest of them openly fight for the extermination of those who aren't white Christians. You'd have to a fucking moron to even attempt to point the finger elsewhere. The best part is that historically speaking those statues were put in place during the same time that Jim Crowe and other white nationalist based laws that obviously discriminate were drafted and adopted. So let's place some obviously discriminatory laws in place and to really drive the point home we will also drop some historical defenders of slavery into town squares the nation over. Never mind that those statues depict people who literally attempted to defend slavery by risking their own lives in war, no these statues aren't racist, not at all.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 17, 2017, 18:28:11
So you got fired?

That whole "show" was well planned by the the racist Left and Soros thugs and now that the video evidence is surfacing not even CNN can push it back.

I would say that these protest groups on both sides of racism are nothing more than misinformed, weak mined trash... but I'm sure you had a good time watching Chicken.

Seriously? I hate to say it, but the time is fucking now more than ever. You may not be self-aware or realize this, but stupid falls out of your mouth every time you open it, and it's apparent to everyone else. I've avoided insulting you for ages while you throw lobs of shit towards me repeatedly, but sorry guy: you're fucked.

The false equivalence that savOr points out is absolutely correct. A crowd of torch-bearing neo-nazis shouting "Jews will not replace us," carrying swastikas and other symbols of white supremacy, raising their arms in sieg heil salutes -- these are people that the president said had some good people among them. And these are the people that are calling for the eradication of people of color, Jews, Muslims, etc. There aren't two sides to this argument, and trying to blame the left for the violence is about as idiotic as it gets -- and is essentially arguing the white supremacists' side. Nazis shouldn't be protected -- look up Hegel's paradox of tolerance for some guidance here. And think about America's past.

I didn't lose my job because I'm not a mouth breathing Nazi who attended a rally to preach hate toward minorities -- not sure how you made that leap, sweetums, but it's bizarre.

"The whole show" was actually planned by the right, and the leftists who came out to protest did so in reaction to the Nazi right. You claim the evidence is so clear that CNN can't refute it? OK, let's have it. Post it here. Not evidence that the antifas attacked the Nazis, but that the whole thing was planned by the left. And let's remember that in the end, an anti-racist protestor was killed by a racist protestor.

Protest groups on both sides of racism -- you mean the racists and those who condemn racism? You mean, like the civil rights movement in the 1960s? -- are weak minded trash? Really? We should stand idly by while the white supremacists gain momentum?

Remember when you used to say derogatory stuff about Mexicans, African-Americans, Muslims and other minorities here with your buddy who got banned because he just couldn't shut up about it?

The Trump supporting fringe is declining in numbers as people are abhorred by what this man has done and continues to do, but no doubt there will be people -- some misinformed, some malicious, some incredibly naïve or stupid -- who continue to defend him or what they think he stands for. This is seriously a shitty and fucked up time in the US.

Love you toots, really I do, and let me know if you need help with any of the big words as you've complained you can't understand them in the past. XOXO.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 17, 2017, 19:25:59
Perhaps you meant Popper rather than Hegel.

Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies:

    "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Otherwise, no problem!

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 17, 2017, 20:25:55
Okay, but that doesn't really answer the question. Even if they were throwing punches, where is the evidence that they are racist, of the left, and Soros' own thugs were there and acting racist. Punches alone don't make them employed by Soros, racist, or of the left. Maybe they are just angry because a bunch of rich white privileged kids were able to afford the day off to protest the removal of some transparently racist statues. At best you could say that the proposed charges could be considered hard to prove, but in reality they are based on nonsense. Sure, there are assholes in every group. Hell, a white nationalist killed a woman, but instead of apologizing and pointing out actions of terror where they are due (good job Donnie) we are trying to prove that the other side didn't have permits and make the other side out to be equally as bad. It's a moral false equivalence really. The majority are saying that the white nationalists spew hate, obviously true. Those defending the white nationalists are attempting to say that the other side is just as bad. That again is a logical fallacy. Address the criticism of the white nationalists, one of which murdered a person at that very rally, the rest of them openly fight for the extermination of those who aren't white Christians. You'd have to a fucking moron to even attempt to point the finger elsewhere. The best part is that historically speaking those statues were put in place during the same time that Jim Crowe and other white nationalist based laws that obviously discriminate were drafted and adopted. So let's place some obviously discriminatory laws in place and to really drive the point home we will also drop some historical defenders of slavery into town squares the nation over. Never mind that those statues depict people who literally attempted to defend slavery by risking their own lives in war, no these statues aren't racist, not at all.

Did you spend all morning writing that drivel?

Are you gonna blow up Mount Rushmore too?

Taking these monuments down is completely idiotic.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 17, 2017, 20:34:24
That is a curious question.

Aside from all the shit that happened in the last week or two, they have been going after monuments for a solid year.

49% of the Constitutional Convention were slave owners, including some of the most prominent, including the guy who wrote the Declaration, and our first president, along with the president during the Civil War. Do we go after their monuments next? Lincoln, after all didn't free all slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation, only those in states the Union was fighting.

I'm not here to argue who fought for what, or what monuments are ok, and what are not. Just a curious question as to what comes next, after they tackle all the Confederate monuments.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 17, 2017, 20:34:44
Seriously? I hate to say it, but the time is fucking now more than ever. You may not be self-aware or realize this, but stupid falls out of your mouth every time you open it, and it's apparent to everyone else. I've avoided insulting you for ages while you throw lobs of shit towards me repeatedly, but sorry guy: you're fucked.

The false equivalence that savOr points out is absolutely correct. A crowd of torch-bearing neo-nazis shouting "Jews will not replace us," carrying swastikas and other symbols of white supremacy, raising their arms in sieg heil salutes -- these are people that the president said had some good people among them. And these are the people that are calling for the eradication of people of color, Jews, Muslims, etc. There aren't two sides to this argument, and trying to blame the left for the violence is about as idiotic as it gets -- and is essentially arguing the white supremacists' side. Nazis shouldn't be protected -- look up Hegel's paradox of tolerance for some guidance here. And think about America's past.

I didn't lose my job because I'm not a mouth breathing Nazi who attended a rally to preach hate toward minorities -- not sure how you made that leap, sweetums, but it's bizarre.

"The whole show" was actually planned by the right, and the leftists who came out to protest did so in reaction to the Nazi right. You claim the evidence is so clear that CNN can't refute it? OK, let's have it. Post it here. Not evidence that the antifas attacked the Nazis, but that the whole thing was planned by the left. And let's remember that in the end, an anti-racist protestor was killed by a racist protestor.

Protest groups on both sides of racism -- you mean the racists and those who condemn racism? You mean, like the civil rights movement in the 1960s? -- are weak minded trash? Really? We should stand idly by while the white supremacists gain momentum?

Remember when you used to say derogatory stuff about Mexicans, African-Americans, Muslims and other minorities here with your buddy who got banned because he just couldn't shut up about it?

The Trump supporting fringe is declining in numbers as people are abhorred by what this man has done and continues to do, but no doubt there will be people -- some misinformed, some malicious, some incredibly naïve or stupid -- who continue to defend him or what they think he stands for. This is seriously a shitty and fucked up time in the US.

Love you toots, really I do, and let me know if you need help with any of the big words as you've complained you can't understand them in the past. XOXO.

WoW! You spun that just like a full blown CNN news story.

You seem to think I care what you think Chicken... I don't, your just noise imo.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 17, 2017, 21:00:14
The vast majority of Confederate memorials were installed in the 20th century.  Most were funded by the United Daughters of the Confederacy and they were clearly part of the UDC's promotion of the Lost Cause. Most memorials were installed alongside Jim Crow laws and a bunch were installed during the Civil Rights Movement.  If we're being honest, it's pretty clear they represented a defiance by southern states.  To suggest that Washington or Jefferson memorials are next is just being alarmist.  One has nothing to do with the other. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 17, 2017, 21:52:34
Did you spend all morning writing that drivel?

Are you gonna blow up Mount Rushmore too?

Taking these monuments down is completely idiotic.


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No, you're a doo-doo head!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 17, 2017, 22:28:31
The vast majority of Confederate memorials were installed in the 20th century.  Most were funded by the United Daughters of the Confederacy and they were clearly part of the UDC's promotion of the Lost Cause. Most memorials were installed alongside Jim Crow laws and a bunch were installed during the Civil Rights Movement.  If we're being honest, it's pretty clear they represented a defiance by southern states.  To suggest that Washington or Jefferson memorials are next is just being alarmist.  One has nothing to do with the other.

Normally, I would agree. However, the Lincoln Memorial was vandalised last night. Shit is all over Facebook with people talking about taking them down, "we shouldn't memorialize slave owners," etc.

Like I said, not arguing one way or the other. Just a curious question.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 17, 2017, 22:41:52
I missed that story about Lincoln Memorial. Maybe I'm wrong. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 17, 2017, 23:12:50
Lincoln Memorial was vandalised last night.

A moron with a spraycan; stupidity isn't limited to any one political outlook.

However this doesn't invalidate the reasoning behind the removal of Lost Cause statuary.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Aug 18, 2017, 01:10:27
The issue of Confederate statues is not that the people that are memorialized don't have historical significance and not that they were slave owners. The real issue is that the statues were raised last time White Supremacists insisted on taking back the south and tried to rewrite history - predominantly in the Jim Crow era.

It was not because they were brave or great generals, but because they represented the south and all that it stood for and that was mainly about whites being "true americans".  The sad thing is that the south has a valid, if incomplete historical perspective and it is overshadowed by the neo nazi and other bozos who seem to feel that Chump has legitimized their anger.

Let's not forget that the "heroes of the south" were as anti American as it's possible to be.  Their intention was to leave the US so that they could continue to build an economy on the backs of non white slaves.  Given that most of the world had already stopped slavery before the Civil War or was starting to outlaw it.

But back to the modern day.  Those statues and the people they represent are or were historical figures and should be in a suitable location and not in front of Government buildings. And neo Nazis have zero place in any modern country and have zero right to try to claim those historical figures as representing their twisted thoughts.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: clem on Aug 18, 2017, 09:52:20
Neo Nazi's are a slap in the face to all of our elders that fought and died in WWII. Period.
There is still slavery that happens in this country today and no one reports on it. Not a good enough story to get votes with I guess. Politicians aim to keep the country divided, it benefits them and only them. Pick anyone you wish to be president and the current situation in this country stays them same. Stamp it.

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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 18, 2017, 10:58:57
No, you're a doo-doo head!

Now that I agree whole heartedly with sir


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 18, 2017, 11:02:06
A moron with a spraycan; stupidity isn't limited to any one political outlook.

However this doesn't invalidate the reasoning behind the removal of Lost Cause statuary.

Crazy

Wonder how a popular vote would turn out if the entire US was poled


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 18, 2017, 12:40:47
Doo-doo head, you go to the polls, you take a poll, you are polling the people, and we were polled in 2016. Getting poled is entirely different. Maybe you should waste more of your morning on your posts.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poled
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 18, 2017, 14:43:17
Perhaps you meant Popper rather than Hegel.

Crazy

Right you are... got my Germans mixed up with my Austrians and my centuries pretty far off, but thanks!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 18, 2017, 14:48:53
WoW! You spun that just like a full blown CNN news story.

You seem to think I care what you think Chicken... I don't, your just noise imo.


Love you boo, and you're cute when you're aloof!

But come on, you've got this proof that the left organized the whole thing in Virginia -- you said so yourself! Show us, there are quite a few people interested in seeing that. Otherwise most people will probably simply continue to think that you are one of those people we all read about -- submerged in an echo chamber of sources from the right that rely on opinion not fact, blindly clinging to a president who has bumbled his way through his first several months and recently given a louder voice to his unsuppressed racism.

Let's hear some more how bad Hillary is, and how divisive Obama was.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 18, 2017, 14:59:47
That is a curious question.

Aside from all the shit that happened in the last week or two, they have been going after monuments for a solid year.

49% of the Constitutional Convention were slave owners, including some of the most prominent, including the guy who wrote the Declaration, and our first president, along with the president during the Civil War. Do we go after their monuments next? Lincoln, after all didn't free all slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation, only those in states the Union was fighting.

I'm not here to argue who fought for what, or what monuments are ok, and what are not. Just a curious question as to what comes next, after they tackle all the Confederate monuments.

I understand people are wondering "Where will it stop" but there are some pretty basic differences between paying homage to people such as George Washington and Robert E. Lee, despite what Trump wants people to think. Washington and Jefferson were flawed people, no doubt about that, including owning slaves. But they are celebrated for leading the United States to independence. Yes, slavery is part of that story, but that's not their main story. Robert E. Lee is celebrated solely (or almost entirely) for leading a pro-slavery revolt against the central government of the United States. Despite what some people may want to argue -- and I'd be happy to engage on this topic -- the Civil War was fought over slavery. Robert E. Lee is celebrated because he wanted to separate from the US and create a nation based on the enslavement of others. He and his side lost, the Union won, and yet there is a debate over whether these traitors should be celebrated in public places and in front of government buildings?

Others (Teazer) have articulated it well here -- in a museum? Sure. People can choose not to visit a museum.

Perhaps most strikingly is that Robert E. Lee was wise enough to oppose monuments to the Confederacy at the end of the Civil War. He wisely saw them as divisive at a time when the South had to accept defeat and acknowledge the end of slavery. And as Irk pointed out -- these monuments were put up long after the Civil War, with dubious motives.

And I'll reiterate my previous comment about the divisiveness of Trump, and add this: neo-nazis and white supremacists are arguing that these statues be maintained, and killing people in the process.   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 18, 2017, 15:10:01
And there goes Bannon.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/us/politics/steve-bannon-trump-white-house.html?_r=0

Anybody know of an administration that fired and replaced people as quickly as this? With this number of resignations and people refusing to join? With this many positions unfilled? Just curious.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 18, 2017, 15:28:29
Has anyone here ever partaken in one of these rallies? I'm considering it. On the anti-Nazi side of course.

Group of former ball players organizing it. We're in touch with ESPN and ABC. We spent months and months on the road with each other, white guys, black guys, Hispanic guys, Latin guys, European guys, etc. Color never mattered to us. It's a brotherhood. Some of my favorite memories are with guys who didn't speak a lick of English. Seemingly, it could be an interesting event.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 18, 2017, 16:37:24
And there goes Bannon.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/us/politics/steve-bannon-trump-white-house.html?_r=0

Anybody know of an administration that fired and replaced people as quickly as this? With this number of resignations and people refusing to join? With this many positions unfilled? Just curious.


Finally, some winning!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 18, 2017, 21:54:51
There's a Nazi rally going on this weekend in Hot Springs. About an hour away from me. Think I may sit that one out.

Rumor has it, people have been told to carry, and leave the kids at home.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 19, 2017, 01:50:24
Robert E. Lee is celebrated solely (or almost entirely) for leading a pro-slavery revolt against the central government of the United States. Despite what some people may want to argue -- and I'd be happy to engage on this topic -- the Civil War was fought over slavery. Robert E. Lee is celebrated because he wanted to separate from the US and create a nation based on the enslavement of others. He and his side lost, the Union won, and yet there is a debate over whether these traitors should be celebrated in public places and in front of government buildings?
While I generally agree with the intent of your post, I don't agree with the accuracy of your statement.  Lee served the US military for 32 years before secession.  He was a celebrated officer during the Mexican-American War and he served as Superintendent of West Point.  He served the US for 32 years and the Confederacy for 4 years.  He followed Virginia into the war, but he himself had nothing to do with it secession.  Lee actually lobbied against secession and he was offered a senior command for the US.  It could be argued that his service to the US should be celebrated, but his service to the Confederacy should not.  To most people, one nullifies the other and I won't argue that point.  I just think Lee isn't seen in the most accurate light and it should be pointed out. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 19, 2017, 06:40:27
Didn't last long …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 20, 2017, 10:23:39
And, we're off and running. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/2db34aef87aed5b3bfb3d537b16f8ec8.jpg)

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 20, 2017, 10:44:43
And, we're off and running.

Amerigo Vespucci was also complicit in this crime, which could lead to a problem for South America as well!

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 20, 2017, 13:04:12
Now, we have Sharpton bitching about his tax dollars going to the Jefferson monument.

The Twitter responses are golden, at least. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/9b62315b4f87a14c14a8afcfae3fa49d.jpg)

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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 20, 2017, 16:03:48
Damn, Antifa is going in on the rocking chairs at Cracker Barrel.

What on earth is happening these days? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/34168eeb6d2dde6053cbb181e7d67f03.jpg)

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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 20, 2017, 17:24:58
What's happening is any idiot can post on YouTube, send a tweet, or share dumb shit on Facebook.  The comments on those videos are priceless.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 20, 2017, 17:57:00
What's happening is any idiot can post on YouTube, send a tweet, or share dumb shit on Facebook.  The comments on those videos are priceless.
Al Sharpton isn't just any idiot. He's like king idiot. He's influential. He goes after something, as he did the Jefferson monument, it's going to gain traction with his followers.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 20, 2017, 19:36:36
Haha.  I was commenting on the Boston Antifa post, but yeah I've never been an Al Sharpton fan either.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 21, 2017, 06:58:41
More folks, who actually have an audience, hopping on the Washington/Jefferson train.

That didn't take a week from the first mention of it, to people hopping on the bandwagon. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170821/6acc591289da6a1224f1de528d65cf8f.jpg)

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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 21, 2017, 07:57:08
That didn't take a week from the first mention of it, to people hopping on the bandwagon.

It's a distinct possibility that some are using it as a distraction from more serious matters!

And some are just trolling.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 21, 2017, 11:08:24
While I generally agree with the intent of your post, I don't agree with the accuracy of your statement.  Lee served the US military for 32 years before secession.  He was a celebrated officer during the Mexican-American War and he served as Superintendent of West Point.  He served the US for 32 years and the Confederacy for 4 years.  He followed Virginia into the war, but he himself had nothing to do with it secession.  Lee actually lobbied against secession and he was offered a senior command for the US.  It could be argued that his service to the US should be celebrated, but his service to the Confederacy should not.  To most people, one nullifies the other and I won't argue that point.  I just think Lee isn't seen in the most accurate light and it should be pointed out.

I guess I would be more sympathetic to this position if a few facts weren't in the way. Despite his prior record, and despite an offer for a senior position in the Union army, he chose to defend slavery and in the process of defending slavery killed more Americans than another other general opposing Americans. That's a pretty big flaw to overcome. The monuments to Lee don't emphasize his record prior the Civil War with a caveat that says "and then there was the whole unfortunate defending slavery thing, but let's not focus on that part;" they are monuments to the Confederacy that emphasize his role as commanding an army designed to defend the practice of slavery. Although the New Orleans monument was put up in 1880, most monuments to the Confederacy were put up in the early 20th century (to reinforce Jim Crow) or in the 1960s (as a reaction to the Civil Rights Movement), and many (most?) were paid for by the Daughters of the Confederacy.

And as I mentioned earlier, Lee himself was on record as opposing monuments to the Confederacy as he predicted (sagely, I suppose) that they would prove divisive.   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 21, 2017, 11:28:50
Although the New Orleans monument was put up in 1880, most monuments to the Confederacy were put up in the early 20th century (to reinforce Jim Crow) or in the 1960s (as a reaction to the Civil Rights Movement), and many (most?) were paid for by the Daughters of the Confederacy.
 
I covered all that in a previous post.  Your previous statement about Lee just needed more information. Like I said, I hold the same opinion, but I also prefer to have all the details on the table.  There's the position of being anti-American and pro-Slavery being discussed as they relate to these monuments.  Also, your position about Lee highlights a justification to remove all monuments of former slave owners, including those in the Union. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 21, 2017, 12:39:16
I think we can all agree that slavery is/was abhorrent.

However, I have a hard time condemning people of that past who lived within the social constructs of their time.

We think the way we do now, because we were taught to do so. Just as those men were taught in their lifetimes.
Monday morning quarterbacking doesn't offer anything than division amongst the people.   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 21, 2017, 14:15:04
I covered all that in a previous post.  Your previous statement about Lee just needed more information. Like I said, I hold the same opinion, but I also prefer to have all the details on the table.  There's the position of being anti-American and pro-Slavery being discussed as they relate to these monuments.  Also, your position about Lee highlights a justification to remove all monuments of former slave owners, including those in the Union.

No, it doesn't, although I'm curious why you think it does. Not all slave holders joined a revolt against the US to defend slavery -- isn't that part of what I've been emphasizing? Others had accomplishments that are feted that have nothing to do with slavery.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 21, 2017, 14:21:08
I think we can all agree that slavery is/was abhorrent.

However, I have a hard time condemning people of that past who lived within the social constructs of their time.

We think the way we do now, because we were taught to do so. Just as those men were taught in their lifetimes.
Monday morning quarterbacking doesn't offer anything than division amongst the people.

True -- although the social construct of the time, the 1860s, was broad and included people vehemently opposed to slavery, including many in the South. And including those of African descent in the South, it should go without saying. And abolitionist movements in (what became) the US date to the 17th century. People made choices as to whether they supported slavery, influenced by the situation around them ("how will I get my cotton picked without slavery?" e.g.). People chose to support slavery, people chose to go to war over slavery (not everyone, of course). It's not meant to be divisive Monday morning QBing, but partly it's a continuing attempt to address historical wrongs. Shouldn't be anything wrong with that in a mature society, which is why the defensiveness on one side invites questions as to motive (reinforced by idiots who march with Nazi symbols).
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 21, 2017, 14:29:17
True -- although the social construct of the time, the 1860s, was broad and included people vehemently opposed to slavery, including many in the South. And including those of African descent in the South, it should go without saying. And abolitionist movements in (what became) the US date to the 17th century. People made choices as to whether they supported slavery, influenced by the situation around them ("how will I get my cotton picked without slavery?" e.g.). People chose to support slavery, people chose to go to war over slavery (not everyone, of course). It's not meant to be divisive Monday morning QBing, but partly it's a continuing attempt to address historical wrongs. Shouldn't be anything wrong with that in a mature society, which is why the defensiveness on one side invites questions as to motive (reinforced by idiots who march with Nazi symbols).
I meant more of the Washington/Jefferson rumblings that are now going on, 100 years prior to the Civil War.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Aug 22, 2017, 10:01:34
The statues that were raised up during the Jim Crow era up to the sixties...bleh!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 23, 2017, 13:27:48
It's getting wild out there.

Guy is Asian to boot. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170823/7fe08081821f8cf66d820c7b0774fb4d.jpg)

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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 23, 2017, 13:48:17
It's getting wild out there.

Guy is Asian to boot. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170823/7fe08081821f8cf66d820c7b0774fb4d.jpg)

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Heard this on the morning radio talk shows today. This is honestly one of the stupidest reactions to this situation yet. Absolutely absurd, and everyone involved is being ridiculous.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 23, 2017, 17:27:18
This is hilarious, I'm sure Doo-doo head is exploding. Just the type of deconstructionism he wanted...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Aug 24, 2017, 10:17:25


Heard this on the morning radio talk shows today. This is honestly one of the stupidest reactions to this situation yet. Absolutely absurd, and everyone involved is being ridiculous.

I'll agree, that goes full retard...well maybe the Chinese are planning to bring back the South? I have to take a few more shots of Captain Morgan to buy it though.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 24, 2017, 13:11:05
I'll agree, that goes full retard...well maybe the Chinese are planning to bring back the South? I have to take a few more shots of Captain Morgan to buy it though.

So I'm reading that this wasn't an ESPN decision, but a personal one made by Lee himself.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 24, 2017, 13:33:59
So I'm reading that this wasn't an ESPN decision, but a personal one made by Lee himself.
Wouldn't be surprised. The media is always out to start shit.

Where did you see that at? Still seeing multiple talking about ESPN pulling the trigger. None to the contrary.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 24, 2017, 13:43:21
ESPN has released a statement explaining their decision to pull him. They seem to have done it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Aug 24, 2017, 16:12:42
ESPN has released a statement explaining their decision to pull him. They seem to have done it.

That's not good, the media becoming as unhinged as fearless leader.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 24, 2017, 16:54:05
While I also think it's kind of silly, both ESPN and Robert Lee made the decision together (according to the NYT) and over concerns of safety. Perhaps there was a threat that we don't know about. Perhaps there was no risk whatsoever. But in the grand scheme of things it's not a really big deal, he's going to simply call a game somewhere else. Mountain out of a molehill, really. Or, as some in the media would have you believe, "political correctness run amok!" You decide for yourself.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 24, 2017, 17:17:22
99% of the time a "mutual agreement" occurs between an employer and employee, it's a you're going to do this if you want to remain employed here.

I mean, when this broke a few days ago, and ESPN was catching shit from every direction, why didn't he come out and say "this was my choice" then?

Just a way to try to save face, IMO.

Was chatting with a guy night before last that was big on ESPN until they fired him. Says it is hardcore left leaning.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 24, 2017, 17:59:06
99% of the time a "mutual agreement" occurs between an employer and employee, it's a you're going to do this if you want to remain employed here.

I mean, when this broke a few days ago, and ESPN was catching shit from every direction, why didn't he come out and say "this was my choice" then?

Just a way to try to save face, IMO.

Was chatting with a guy night before last that was big on ESPN until they fired him. Says it is hardcore left leaning.

Meh, maybe. But again in the grand scheme of things it's not really a big thing. It's the overreaction that's funny to me, and evident in the fact that we're even discussing it days later.

As to ESPN being left leaning, I'll admit I'm not a big sports watching guy, I like doing things, not watching things. But I'll watch the stupid bowl, the World Series, and some NBA games. The people at ESPN might be left leaning, but calling their coverage left leaning is a whole 'nother thing. Is it because Michael Sam kissed his boyfriend on TV? That seems to be when the whole ESPN-is-a-liberal-bastion shit took off. Jason Collins? Colin Kapernick? Caitlyn Jenner? As the American right surges ever onward to the right, I constantly hear criticism of this or that as being liberal (like Arizona State University's campus -- shit, those people should see the UW, Berkeley, etc. -- ASU is pretty conservative but like many things simply not conservative enough for some). Sam, Collins, Kaepernick, Jenner -- they're news. The fact that they are covered will rile people on the right as giving a voice to "deviants" or endorsing a "deviant lifestyle choice," as many of them see LGBTQ folks. Fuck 'em.

But I'm curious how their shows decry their liberal bias. How does calling a B-ball game show liberal bias? How do sports talk shows show liberal bias? I'm not saying they do or don't, I'm asking. What's the actual content that shows liberal bias, and who judges it to be liberal, other than your friend? Again, just curious.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 24, 2017, 18:35:43
ESPN has lost over 10M subscribers over the last few years, many stating their liberal bias as the reason they left.

Hell, ESPN did their own research poll a few months ago to quash that myth, came back that 63% of the people that felt they were biased, felt they were biased to the left. In their press release on it, they only mentioned the 30% that said they were conservative, and when asked why the 63% wasn't mentioned, they said they wanted to keep the press release short.

I think the majority of people that feel the way they do, feel that way due to Stephen A. Smith. He constantly harps on black this, black that, if he were white, he'd get this and that. They keep him on constantly.

Then, there is the whole Jessica Mendoza debacle. I don't comment on that one, except in the company of a select group of people.

That said, I don't watch a ton of sports on tv. If I want to see a game, I go to it.

Everything has become politicized. You can't sit down and watch Sports Center, or anything really, without catching political undertones. Just the world we live in, I suppose.

That said, I'm not particularly right, or left leaning. I tend to be fiscally conservative, socially left leaning.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 24, 2017, 22:29:20
Shits gettin real... soon to boil over


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 24, 2017, 22:58:30
Shits gettin real... soon to boil over


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON

Hey Tune. How ya doin?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 24, 2017, 23:03:40

NOW WATCH: The incredible life of Roger Federer, the highest-paid tennis player on Earth



SPORTS
Leaked memo from ESPN president blames Robert Lee hoopla on 'someone with a personal agenda'
Cork Gaines Aug 24, 2017, 8:43 AM ET
FILE PHOTO: ESPN logo and building are shown in down town Los Angeles, California, U.S., March 6, 2017.    REUTERS/Mike Blake/File Photo
Thomson Reuters
ESPN president John Skipper sent a memo to staff Wednesday to respond to criticism that came after the network's decision to remove a football announcer named Robert Lee was from an assignment at the University of Virginia because of his name.

The move was made in the wake of the recent protests in Charlottesville, but conservative commentators criticized ESPN for what they deemed political correctness gone awry, in part because Lee is Asian-American.

Clay Travis of the sports website Outkick the Coverage broke the news Tuesday in an article with the headline "MSESPN Pulls Asian Announcer Named Robert Lee Off UVa Game To Avoid Offending Idiots." "MSESPN" is a reference to what critics view as ESPN's liberal bias along the same lines of MSNBC.

A statement from an anonymous ESPN executive said the decision was simply made to avoid Lee becoming the subject of "memes and jokes and who knows what else."

Skipper went further in explaining the decision, saying it was made by a production staff outside of Bristol, that Lee had expressed concern with the assignment, and blaming the hoopla over the decision on 'someone with a personal agenda.'"

Here is the memo, via Brian Stelter of CNN:

"Given the amount of media attention being generated by one of the countless, routine decisions our local production teams make every day, I wanted to make sure you have the facts. There was never any concern - by anyone, at any level - that Robert Lee's name would offend anyone watching the Charlottesville game.
"Among our Charlotte production staff there was a question as to whether - in these divisive times - Robert's assignment might create a distraction, or even worse, expose him to social hectoring and trolling. Since Robert was their primary concern, they consulted with him directly. He expressed some personal trepidation about the assignment and, when offered the chance to do the Youngstown State/Pitt game instead, opted for that game - in part because he lives in Albany and would be able to get home to his family on Saturday evening.

Sorry. It was kind of sort of his call.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 25, 2017, 10:55:35
Hey Tune. How ya doin?

Back to my roots, traded a chair and screen for my old hammer and nails doing remodel shit on my own... bikes are feelin lonely but winter is coming.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170825/07ed63cc732f3ff5b14bfaf4138b6381.jpg)


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 25, 2017, 23:15:24
Confederate Motorcycles now changing their name.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 27, 2017, 16:43:44
Confederate Motorcycles now changing their name.

The Confederate Air Force did the same, but 15+ years ago, to cries of political correctness run amok. Nobody seems to care now.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 27, 2017, 16:48:30
How about that Arpaio pardon? Someone convicted of violating the principles of the Constitution, with a history of racist policies and of degrading treatment toward prisoners. Ouch. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 27, 2017, 20:50:34
How about that Arpaio pardon? Someone convicted of violating the principles of the Constitution, with a history of racist policies and of degrading treatment toward prisoners. Ouch.
I don't know about that one.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Aug 28, 2017, 14:01:19
That one is a no brainer. Chump decided to send a message that as first Emir of these disunited sates, he and his buds can do whatever they want - or what he wants and he has the power of all kings and dictators to do whatever he wants.  He is above teh law.  He is such a winner that maybe he thinks he is a god.

Approve or disapprove of Sheriff Joe, he was convicted in a court of law and has the right to appeal. At this stage he has not even been sentenced yet. So for El Preidente to step in now and pardon him seems to be completely inappropriate and is a combination of political stunt and to send a warning that he and anyone he likes is above the law. Sad.  Very sad.

In a few short months the US has gone from being seen by many as a flawed but generally OK country that leads from the front, to being seen as a petty, failing dictatorship.

There have been a few books and articles written about fallen empires and how the end for the US as a major power is inevitable.  I doubt any of those authors saw it coming so fast.  Sessions and Trump now want to make it into a military state and want to give police forces even more military equipment so they can rigidly enforce the law on anyone that gets out of line. 

Not a good time to be not rich or not white.  Of course over time as the economy falters and civil unrest grows, those billionaire buddies he is trying to impress will be less happy too, so I guess in the end everyone loses out to some degree. That sounds more like a Bannon plan. 

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 28, 2017, 14:18:34
How about that Arpaio pardon? Someone convicted of violating the principles of the Constitution, with a history of racist policies and of degrading treatment toward prisoners. Ouch.

This is just the left claiming that Trump is a racist or racist sympathizer. Nothing to see here, move along.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 28, 2017, 14:44:07
@ SavOr: Really? Do you know much about this man's past, his policies, and the judgment against levied by the US District Court? Or his furthering of the birther conspiracy, wholly rooted in racism? The more the right accuses the left of fabricating racism in cases where racism clearly played a role, the more the right looks like it's pretty blind to individual and institutional racism. Sort of like Donny saying there were some good people among those neo-nazis and white sympathizers. Aside from racism, Arpaio is a sadist. I don't expect you or anyone else here to be particularly familiar with theories of punishment, incarceration, etc., but holding a higher moral ground over those you imprison is generally considered a good thing. Look up Arpaio's record of abuses as well as the dollar amount of judgments levied against him. I lived in Arizona for two decades; aside from the conviction the only good thing about Arpaio was the fact that he was finally voted out.

@ teaser: And, most disturbingly, it is a clear message to Trump cronies that you can lie on the stand and if you're convicted he will pardon you. This is a pardon for a violation of the Constitution. You're right about authors and the inevitability of decline, I just hope this is a bump in the road and not the spiral going down the toilet.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 28, 2017, 16:03:34
No, not really. It hilarious when Trump debunks his defenders, and he does so systematically through his own incompetence.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 28, 2017, 16:47:42
No, not really. It hilarious when Trump debunks his defenders, and he does so systematically through his own incompetence.

Sorry, my sarcasm meter has obviously run out of juice and I'm low on sleep...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 29, 2017, 19:14:04
That one is a no brainer. Chump decided to send a message that as first Emir of these disunited sates, he and his buds can do whatever they want - or what he wants and he has the power of all kings and dictators to do whatever he wants.  He is above teh law.  He is such a winner that maybe he thinks he is a god.

Approve or disapprove of Sheriff Joe, he was convicted in a court of law and has the right to appeal. At this stage he has not even been sentenced yet. So for El Preidente to step in now and pardon him seems to be completely inappropriate and is a combination of political stunt and to send a warning that he and anyone he likes is above the law. Sad.  Very sad.

In a few short months the US has gone from being seen by many as a flawed but generally OK country that leads from the front, to being seen as a petty, failing dictatorship.

There have been a few books and articles written about fallen empires and how the end for the US as a major power is inevitable.  I doubt any of those authors saw it coming so fast.  Sessions and Trump now want to make it into a military state and want to give police forces even more military equipment so they can rigidly enforce the law on anyone that gets out of line. 

Not a good time to be not rich or not white.  Of course over time as the economy falters and civil unrest grows, those billionaire buddies he is trying to impress will be less happy too, so I guess in the end everyone loses out to some degree. That sounds more like a Bannon plan.

The reason it's "disunited" is because the left lost the election and for some reason needs to blame US Deplorables.

Do you really want to compare presidential pardons?

I'm white and Indian not rich or poor... I earn my way and so should everyone else. I don't see any economic crisis any time soon, fear mongering has always been the governments job... now it's been taken over by the Liberal Left AKA Snowflakes.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 29, 2017, 22:18:39
Do you really want to compare presidential pardons?

Absolutely, what do you have?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sonreir on Aug 30, 2017, 13:47:08
The reason it's "disunited" is because the left lost the election and for some reason needs to blame US Deplorables.

So it was all candy canes and rainbows when Obama was in office?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 30, 2017, 20:52:18
Absolutely, what do you have?

Oscar Lopez Rivera.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 30, 2017, 20:54:33
So it was all candy canes and rainbows when Obama was in office?

Well seems Trump gets the blame for Bary's obvious racist intent to piss off the blacks.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 30, 2017, 22:00:29
Oscar Lopez Rivera.


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Obama commuted his sentence.  He didn't pardon him. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 31, 2017, 08:40:41
Obama commuted his sentence.  He didn't pardon him.

Ok. Still should of been hung imo.

But the fact Joe was pardoned won't end democracy and certainly the guy did far more good than bad. Prison should be hell not a hotel, maybe we would have less idiots in jail if we had more Joes.




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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 31, 2017, 11:39:16
Ok. Still should of been hung imo.

But the fact Joe was pardoned won't end democracy and certainly the guy did far more good than bad. Prison should be hell not a hotel, maybe we would have less idiots in jail if we had more Joes.

Not a great job there, Tuna, was expecting better from you. You know, like someone who swore to uphold the constitution but repeatedly violated it, someone who did such a shitty job they cost their employer millions, someone who was a racist who bragged about running concentration camps and who was pardoned before he was sentenced. That's the apt comparison I'm looking for, not a 75-year-old who did half his life in jail and who's sentence was commuted so he could die at home.

"Bary's obvious racist intent to piss off the blacks" (sic) -- definitely wasn't the preponderance of cell phone footage of POC being gunned down by police or neighborhood watch guys, being choked to death, being shot while being a kid in a playground, or any of that nonsense, or the fact that courts don't convict. Or the exposure that Ferguson was targeting POC for revenue. Or the fact that Trump praised people who marched with neo-nazis and white supremacists as some good people? Definitely none of that. What did "Bary" do again? It's been so long I've forgotten how he stoked the fires of race war.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 31, 2017, 11:41:42
Well seems Trump gets the blame for Bary's obvious racist intent to piss off the blacks.


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Not that Obama had some secret plot to piss of African Americans, but even if he did, how would that be racist?

Trump supporters were angry over Obama's response to Katrina victims, but Trump failed to meet even a single Harvey victim. Where's the empathy of him? If he's such a great guy he could slum it up with some normal people for a minute or two.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 31, 2017, 11:48:47
Not that Obama had some secret plot to piss of African Americans, but even if he did, how would that be racist?

Trump supporters were angry over Obama's response to Katrina victims, but Trump failed to meet even a single Harvey victim. Where's the empathy of him? If he's such a great guy he could slum it up with some normal people for a minute or two.

Not sure if that was sarcasm...

But Obama wasn't in office during Katrina
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 31, 2017, 11:51:21
Not sure if that was sarcasm...

But Obama wasn't in office during Katrina

This is one of the funniest things going lately. By funny I mean completely dumbfounding.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 31, 2017, 11:52:54
Not sure if that was sarcasm...

But Obama wasn't in office during Katrina

Not sarcasm. Trump supporters were literally complaining that Obama's response to Katrina was worse than Trumps response to Harvey. This despite the fact that he wasn't president for another three years. These are the people who voted for Trump.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 01, 2017, 23:29:53
Uniting America - one newspaper at a time:

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/ (http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/)



Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 02, 2017, 12:32:10
You all keep forgetting the fact that I stated several times... I associate the Name Trump as a movement not a man. Wearing blinders and not even considering what this has done FOR America will never make you or your drivel correct.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Sep 02, 2017, 12:42:55
You all keep forgetting the fact that I stated several times... I associate the Name Trump as a movement not a man. Wearing blinders and not even considering what this has done FOR America will never make you or your drivel correct.



What exactly has this Trump "movement" done for America that was beneficial?

I haven't seen too much improvement from where I sit, but I'm on the outside looking in.

What would you describe the Trump movement as?

Just wondering how someone who supported the movement see's it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 02, 2017, 13:38:34

What exactly has this Trump "movement" done for America that was beneficial?

I haven't seen too much improvement from where I sit, but I'm on the outside looking in.

What would you describe the Trump movement as?

Just wondering how someone who supported the movement see's it.

I've been asking that first question here since he was elected, and nobody seems able to answer it. Trump has taken credit for the economy and jobs, but the economy is still reflected Obama-era policy, and jobs as well (despite the claim of some pundits that these are Trump accomplishments). Emboldened white nationalists and racists? Some people would herald those as accomplishments -- but not me or likely most people here. Created an environment ripe for (literally physically) attacking POC and other minorities? Again, some people might find that an accomplishment, but not many people here. Set back American diplomacy with Europe, Mexico, and just about everywhere else and threatened North Korea with belligerence? I guess if you have little understanding about how the government is supposed to function you might think that leaving critical positions unfilled is an accomplishment. Ah... I've got one. He's accomplished the most turnarounds, firings, dismissals and resignations of cabinet and other important positions. So there's that. He hasn't engineered the complete collapse of the economy or the government, so there's that too. American institutions seem to be holding up despite his desire to work around them, that's an accomplishment.

But really, I'm interested in hearing this list of accomplishments because, clearly, I'm an idiotic naysayer. So let's have 'em.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Sep 02, 2017, 14:58:04
I guess if you have little understanding about how the government is supposed to function you might think that leaving critical positions unfilled is an accomplishment.
We might need to add The Freedom Caucus to the question...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/08/28/harvey-shows-the-anti-government-crowds-utter-hypocrisy/?nid&utm_term=.76ba2b5f90a1
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Sep 02, 2017, 15:05:38
As for Confederate memorials, maybe we should take a cue from the Bulgarians...

(http://i2.wp.com/www.creativevisualart.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/monument-soviet-army-sofia-106.jpg?w=800)

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 02, 2017, 15:30:25
We might need to add The Freedom Caucus to the question...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/08/28/harvey-shows-the-anti-government-crowds-utter-hypocrisy/?nid&utm_term=.76ba2b5f90a1

Absolutely. Ted Cruz's opposition to government aid that he so eloquently opposed during Sandy has vanished now that his home state is affected.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 03, 2017, 14:52:55

What exactly has this Trump "movement" done for America that was beneficial?

I haven't seen too much improvement from where I sit, but I'm on the outside looking in.

What would you describe the Trump movement as?

Just wondering how someone who supported the movement see's it.
Exposed a mountain of corruption amongst them "all" and has created a political awareness you will never see again in my lifetime for sure, if Hillary would of won... nothing but crickets and status quo.

We will never be silenced again.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 03, 2017, 14:57:26
I've been asking that first question here since he was elected, and nobody seems able to answer it. Trump has taken credit for the economy and jobs, but the economy is still reflected Obama-era policy, and jobs as well (despite the claim of some pundits that these are Trump accomplishments). Emboldened white nationalists and racists? Some people would herald those as accomplishments -- but not me or likely most people here. Created an environment ripe for (literally physically) attacking POC and other minorities? Again, some people might find that an accomplishment, but not many people here. Set back American diplomacy with Europe, Mexico, and just about everywhere else and threatened North Korea with belligerence? I guess if you have little understanding about how the government is supposed to function you might think that leaving critical positions unfilled is an accomplishment. Ah... I've got one. He's accomplished the most turnarounds, firings, dismissals and resignations of cabinet and other important positions. So there's that. He hasn't engineered the complete collapse of the economy or the government, so there's that too. American institutions seem to be holding up despite his desire to work around them, that's an accomplishment.

But really, I'm interested in hearing this list of accomplishments because, clearly, I'm an idiotic naysayer. So let's have 'em.
You are completely brainwashed.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Sep 03, 2017, 15:20:51
Exposed a mountain of corruption amongst them "all" and has created a political awareness you will never see again in my lifetime for sure, if Hillary would of won... nothing but crickets and status quo.

We will never be silenced again.


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I though the corruption was pretty blatant personally, but i concur that he has helped raised political awareness.

If i may, i'd like to offer 2 similar anecdotes from our past elections in canada and quebec.

First in quebec:
The liberal party had many corruption scandals, plus the "printemps rouge" student protests. So at the next election many who would have voted for them in the past changed to either the quebecois party or the C.A.Q.
This led to the quebecois party being given a minority out of protest mostly.
They did so badly, that when they held the next election trying to secure a majority, they were crushed, completely. Liberal majority.

Second, canada 2011:
People must have been sick of the constant liberal/conservative stupidity because many more people voted ndp, for a slim conservative majority. At the end of this, people were so sick of the conservatives that many people who wanted to vote ndp voted liberal just to be sure that the conservatives would lose. Outcome, liberal majority.


You may be asking "what the hell does that have to do with the good ol' U.S. Of A. ?"

My point is that if trump can't get his shit together, and he runs again in 2020, he will not only lose, but be crushed, overwhelmingly.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 03, 2017, 16:08:48
You are completely brainwashed.

Totes, I am completely brainwashed.

So help me out here, what's so great? What's he accomplished? I just want a couple things. You can't seem to provide any except that I'm brainwashed, which -- I'll be honest here boo -- sounds a little like projection.

The whole "he's-exposed-a-mountain-of-corruption" is rich, given the fact that he's using his office to enrich himself and is currently under investigation.

I know you don't read much (at all?) because, you know, all the news is fake, but here's a little of what you missed this past week. Felix Sater, one of Trump's business buddies, wrote to Michael Cohen, Trump's lawyer, during the campaign and promised to engineer a real estate deal in Russia with Putin that would get Putin on Trump's side and help him win the election. Trump made a campaign-style stop in Houston, in which he praised the crowds (many of whom were actually protesting his appearance) but didn't once mention the deaths due to the storm. He also said the storm and people's actions were "wonderful to watch." He has also ratcheted up rhetoric with North Korea, and after N Korea claimed it tested an H-bomb (likely false), Trump laid into South Korea and threatened to withdraw from a long-term trade agreement. I know you think this is all great stuff, boo, but help me understand why.   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 03, 2017, 16:11:43
My point is that if trump can't get his shit together, and he runs again in 2020, he will not only lose, but be crushed, overwhelmingly.

Well, that's if he makes it to 2020. He might. But I'm not holding my breath. He's had 7 months to get his shit together and he's doing the opposite. His approval ratings are so low he would have no chance of winning the next election -- the dems could run a stump and win at this point.

The midterms will be a barometer, but midterms aren't always predictive of national sentiment -- it's a factor, to be sure, but there are also local factors in each election.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 05, 2017, 09:13:18
Dems won't win in 2020 that is impossible and you leftyy's thought you had 2016 in the bag because the Trump was so low in numbers... then the country turned red like the Verizon coverage map LOL... point is, you have no idea what 2020 will bring. I'll vote for the person that will continue to cause the shithouse to run afraid of the people outside.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 05, 2017, 10:28:07
I'll vote for the person that will continue to cause the shithouse to run afraid of the people outside.

Can't argue with that logic.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Sep 06, 2017, 11:22:03
I must be missing something too.  Trump has in fact managed to replace a lot of competent professionals with a bunch of ass kissing idiots in many positions as temporary posts. He has tried to take away health insurance from millions and failed.  His approach to the DPRK is childish and like most bullies full of empty threats. His only other option at this stage is to nuke NK and start WW3 and the end of the world.  Or back down and start acting like an adult. 

The economy looks to be slowing down as does job growth which he has done nothing to change.  Nothing. as in not a thing. 

Let's look at one example. FoxConn are supposed to be going to build a factory in Kenosha WI which will create an initial 3,000 jobs with the possibility of more.  To get that factory built WI has offered a bundle of tax breaks amounting to $3 billion.  That doesn't sound like good economics.  In addition, they are changing the litigation process just for Foxconn to make it easier for them to fight any complaints/lawsuits.   Who is at home there in WI?  Did all the adults leave the room?

Draining the swamp? We wish, but it's not happening. He is the ultimate swamp dweller.  He just replaced one set of swamp creatures with another set. Swamp draining is not on his agenda anytime soon.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Sep 06, 2017, 12:31:37
FoxConn are supposed to be going to build a factory in Kenosha WI which will create an initial 3,000 jobs with the possibility of more.  To get that factory built WI has offered a bundle of tax breaks amounting to $3 billion.  That doesn't sound like good economics.  In addition, they are changing the litigation process just for Foxconn to make it easier for them to fight any complaints/lawsuits.   Who is at home there in WI?  Did all the adults leave the room?
You may not be on base here.  There are other factors you may not be considering.  In the early 90s, BMW built a plant a few miles from my parents' house.  South Carolina gave them significant tax breaks, including making the plant and part of the airport a free trade zone.  Additionally, they built an inland port a few miles away.  In addition to the jobs and training BMW created for the area in their plant, they created thousands of other jobs in the region through the support industries.  At least one member here works for an injection molding company that produces parts for BMW.  Since the plant opened, Greenville SC has become one of the fastest growing cities in the US.  The region has been in a boom for years.  Before the plant was built, they had been in depression from the loss of textile jobs.  At least 95% of the textile mills closed before 1995.  The mill I worked at closed. 
The point I'm making is that while FoxConn may be getting tax breaks, the region will still collect tax revenue through real estate appreciation, sales taxes, support industry, etc.  Restaurants may see boom.  New stores open up.  Schools will get more funding and so on.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 06, 2017, 17:43:30
Be curious to see the income tax figures on 3,000 jobs yearly. As well as the boom it will create for the area. Machine shops will be doing more business, hire more people, buy new machines. There's more tax revenue. More people with jobs = more people spending money. More tax revenue.

Would like to see, say five years down the road, the tax intake compared to the breaks given.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: VonYinzer on Sep 06, 2017, 20:09:53
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/11/542844184/despite-fiscal-warning-wisconsin-plans-to-move-ahead-with-foxconn-deal

Pretty good NPR article about the FoxConn deal. End of the day, it really doesn't seem all that wonderful for the residents of Wis. If nothing else the fact that FoxConn won't have to pay income tax seems like a raw deal for the state. And the fact that (as the Repubs are wont to do) they're basically tossing all enviromental concerns to thw wind, I can't say I'd be thrilled if I lived in that state.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 06, 2017, 20:20:13
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/11/542844184/despite-fiscal-warning-wisconsin-plans-to-move-ahead-with-foxconn-deal

Pretty good NPR article about the FoxConn deal. End of the day, it really doesn't seem all that wonderful for the residents of Wis. If nothing else the fact that FoxConn won't have to pay income tax seems like a raw deal for the state. And the fact that (as the Repubs are wont to do) they're basically tossing all enviromental concerns to thw wind, I can't say I'd be thrilled if I lived in that state.

That's business. They would have taken their 3,000 jobs elsewhere.

We did the same with a HP center. Several thousand jobs. City has grown by 10K since they moved in, new retail, restaurants, new mall being built. New airport was built to accommodate jets, and has filled up twice as full as the old one was with small aircraft. It was good for the city.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Sep 06, 2017, 21:46:18
This is the problem with the impact estimate:  "The estimate focused on the income tax that would be paid by workers at Foxconn because the manufacturer will qualify for a state tax program that exempts it from paying income taxes. It also assumes the facility will hire the maximum number of employees it has projected for the plant: 13,000."

As much as I don't like Walker, he's right about the indirect benefits.  They made the same arguments against the BMW plant, yet I have seen first hand the indirect benefits that plant created.  A major difference with the BMW deal, though, was that they were still required to do preliminary archeological digs and find a place for the artifacts.  So the environmental exemptions weren't offered.  BMW also made a lot of local farmers rich when they offered millions for properties not worth much more than $200 - $300k before the deal. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 06, 2017, 23:43:21
This is the problem with the impact estimate:  "The estimate focused on the income tax that would be paid by workers at Foxconn because the manufacturer will qualify for a state tax program that exempts it from paying income taxes. It also assumes the facility will hire the maximum number of employees it has projected for the plant: 13,000."

As much as I don't like Walker, he's right about the indirect benefits.  They made the same arguments against the BMW plant, yet I have seen first hand the indirect benefits that plant created.  A major difference with the BMW deal, though, was that they were still required to do preliminary archeological digs and find a place for the artifacts.  So the environmental exemptions weren't offered.  BMW also made a lot of local farmers rich when they offered millions for properties not worth much more than $200 - $300k before the deal.
HP laid about 1,500 off here last year. The city told them if they didn't retain a certain number of employees, they would lose their tax benefits. They hired 1,500 people within a couple weeks. It was in their agreement they retained a certain number of employees to achieve tax free status in the city. I would assume similar measures have been taken here.

The land bit is a good one. One of my good friends, is up north of $20M since shit started expanding like crazy. Cow pastures, to cold hard cash.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Sep 07, 2017, 09:41:53
I totally get the demand side economics and have made that argument myself.  The point was that there are better ways to generate jobs for a lot less money and without that environmental impact. And the financial impact study assumed all 13,000 jobs would be created.

For sure WI needs jobs and I love manufacturing jobs - that's my background - and the flow on effect is always underestimated when jobs are lost and over estimated when a new facility comes to town.   

And with that particular deal they specifically allow Foxconn to build on or fill any swamp with impunity.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 07, 2017, 09:58:48
It seems there isn't a way to build large numbers of jobs quickly, and cheaper. Every state and city is fighting to get these plants. With that, comes the deals.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 07, 2017, 18:09:52
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/11/542844184/despite-fiscal-warning-wisconsin-plans-to-move-ahead-with-foxconn-deal

Pretty good NPR article about the FoxConn deal. End of the day, it really doesn't seem all that wonderful for the residents of Wis. If nothing else the fact that FoxConn won't have to pay income tax seems like a raw deal for the state. And the fact that (as the Repubs are wont to do) they're basically tossing all enviromental concerns to thw wind, I can't say I'd be thrilled if I lived in that state.
I took a minute to read this.

I think, if you were a resident of that area that landed a previously unavailable job, you'd be thrilled.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 07, 2017, 22:02:53
Meanwhile, in the courts …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 07, 2017, 23:10:29
Meanwhile, in the courts …

I have been telling people here that at least American institutions seem to be holding... for now.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 08, 2017, 01:32:45
American institutions seem to be holding... for now.

The judiciary seems to be holding the line but the legislators will need to wake up.

In the meantime, those Mexicans don't seem to be taking the fence seriously.
Photograph by Guillermo Arias of an artwork by French artist JR on the US border at Tecate, Mexico
Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 08, 2017, 10:36:19
In the meantime, those Mexicans don't seem to be taking the fence seriously.

They (we?) aren't. Everyone here knows it's just symbolic, and it's a symbol of a shitty attitude toward Mexicans. Public art is everywhere here -- strong tradition of murals, of course -- including a pretty funny billboard of Trump as an alien from "They Live."

(http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/borderbaby09072017twitter.jpg?itok=o4dIA0Ab)

(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/597bcd0eb50ab11d008b595a/an-artist-put-up-a-they-live-inspired-billboard-with-an-alien-donald-trump-in-mexico-city.jpg)

Absolutely insane earthquake here last night, strongest in a century. Wildfires, hurricanes, earthquakes -- must be end times.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 08, 2017, 22:27:30
DPRK is Nonconstitutional (yes the spelling IS correct) period. What DJT etal did was exactly what Obama warned about when he committed this act of socialism... stop blaming DJT for something he didn't start, but simply corrected.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 08, 2017, 22:31:13
The judiciary seems to be holding the line but the legislators will need to wake up.

In the meantime, those Mexicans don't seem to be taking the fence seriously.
Photograph by Guillermo Arias of an artwork by French artist JR on the US border at Tecate, Mexico
Crazy
Nearly ever other country on the planet has borer control, why should we even consider and open border policy... it's like the ship is sinking so fill the lifeboat so full it sinks also... idiocy.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 08, 2017, 22:34:55
I have been telling people here that at least American institutions seem to be holding... for now.

It just sets the stage for DJT to do the same as OB1 and bypass the court and congress and use his pen. I don't think anyone wants more of that.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 09, 2017, 13:43:25
DPRK is Nonconstitutional (yes the spelling IS correct) period. What DJT etal did was exactly what Obama warned about when he committed this act of socialism... stop blaming DJT for something he didn't start, but simply corrected.

You're not making any sense. The DPRK has a constitution. What act of socialism did Obama commit toward North Korea? What policy of Obama's toward North Korea is Trump correcting?

Nearly ever other country on the planet has borer control, why should we even consider and open border policy... it's like the ship is sinking so fill the lifeboat so full it sinks also... idiocy.

The US currently does have border control, although if the US does actually try to build that idiotic wall they will certainly need "borer" control. An ineffective and expensive wall is not "border control." Nobody sensible is claiming the US should have open borders -- this is right wing hyperbole and exaggeration meant to stoke fear, much of it based on racism (They're bad hombres. They're rapists). The repeal of DACA is essentially people who came to the US as kids, grew up in the US and view it as their home, and know no other country, and kicking them out to appease a white nationalist base. DACA kids are no more likely to commit crimes than any other demographic, and right now right wing media such as Brietbart and the Washington Examiner are spreading lies and misinformation about this.

I mean, it's tough to keep somewhat informed but it's worth a shot.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 11, 2017, 09:33:21
Sign of the times (outside a bookshop):
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Sep 11, 2017, 12:19:53
I suspect that Autocorrect changed DACA to DPRK in Tune's post.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 11, 2017, 13:37:11
I suspect that Autocorrect changed DACA to DPRK in Tune's post.

Still doesn't make any sense!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Sep 12, 2017, 02:18:05
I think he was saying that Obama's creation of DACA was unconstitutional and that Trump was simply undoing  something that he argues was not the way that rules should be introduced, so don't blame Trump for that.  I think that's the argument. 

However, since congress can't seem to get anything passed, what's a president to do?

It seems to me that times have changed and while congress was incapable of getting immigration reform done - it's complex - maybe the country generally feels differently now and maybe this time congress will manage to pass something.



Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 12, 2017, 10:10:30
OK, sure, I get it, but 71% of dems and 46% (a plurality) of reps support DACA. Fifty-six percent of the general population supports DACA, 18% support legal residency, and only 15% support deportation, according to polls. Trump campaigned on dreamers not having anything to worry about (add yet another lie, I suppose). And evidence shows that dreamers don't commit a higher proportion of crimes that others (and if they commit serious crimes, they lose their status and can be deported), and they work.

But asserting that it's socialism? How does that work? Asserting that because it's "nonconstitutional" it shouldn't be policy? Does every policy have to be explicitly mentioned in the Constitution for it to be valid? DPRK aside, these are things that don't make any sense.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 12, 2017, 14:51:40
OK, sure, I get it, but 71% of dems and 46% (a plurality) of reps support DACA. Fifty-six percent of the general population supports DACA, 18% support legal residency, and only 15% support deportation, according to polls. Trump campaigned on dreamers not having anything to worry about (add yet another lie, I suppose). And evidence shows that dreamers don't commit a higher proportion of crimes that others (and if they commit serious crimes, they lose their status and can be deported), and they work.

But asserting that it's socialism? How does that work? Asserting that because it's "nonconstitutional" it shouldn't be policy? Does every policy have to be explicitly mentioned in the Constitution for it to be valid? DPRK aside, these are things that don't make any sense.

Regardless of who supports what, it's Congress' job to pass legislation in regards to it. Trump has put the ball in their court.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 12, 2017, 16:48:32
Regardless of who supports what, it's Congress' job to pass legislation in regards to it. Trump has put the ball in their court.

True, to a degree -- congress will need to pass legislation or pass the buck. But the Trump administration is refusing new applications so it is already affecting people. And permits will begin expiring March 6, 2018, unless something is done. Imagine living here your whole life and not knowing where you will be in 6 months?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 12, 2017, 17:26:18
True, to a degree -- congress will need to pass legislation or pass the buck. But the Trump administration is refusing new applications so it is already affecting people. And permits will begin expiring March 6, 2018, unless something is done. Imagine living here your whole life and not knowing where you will be in 6 months?
I get that. That's the sole purpose of Congress. They need to do their job.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 12, 2017, 23:38:51
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170913/ef9d8bc8e2a6b1e219f1c1608ec9c25e.png)


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 13, 2017, 04:02:20
Master of the non sequitur!

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 14, 2017, 09:10:40
Ope... y'all got the Pope on yer side now, guess you really want to wipe ass with our constitution now. ❄️'s and winters coming


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 14, 2017, 11:13:45
Ope... y'all got the Pope on yer side now, guess you really want to wipe ass with our constitution now. ❄️'s and winters coming
I think the pope hasn't been happy with Donald Trump from day one. There was the whole sexual assault thing, the affairs, the unfettered greed coupled with ripping people off, the white supremacy, you know, the sort of "non-Christian" stuff that Trump does that doesn't seem to bother his evangelical base, and the kind of stuff that Trump supporters seem to be willing to overlook because he's done such a great job. Remind me again, what are some of his accomplishments? You're cute when you're all deflecty, boo! 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 14, 2017, 11:56:33
I think the pope hasn't been happy with Donald Trump from day one. There was the whole sexual assault thing, the affairs, the unfettered greed coupled with ripping people off, the white supremacy, you know, the sort of "non-Christian" stuff that Trump does that doesn't seem to bother his evangelical base, and the kind of stuff that Trump supporters seem to be willing to overlook because he's done such a great job. Remind me again, what are some of his accomplishments? You're cute when you're all deflecty, boo!
The Pope has enough sexual assault to worry about in his own house.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 14, 2017, 13:30:37
The Pope has enough sexual assault to worry about in his own house.

Absolutely true, but doesn't stop him from pontification (har har) on the sexual assaults of others. At least this one pays lip service to the preferential option for the poor a la Vatican II.

** I should also mention that it appears as though Drumpf is working on DACA deal with dems, and the right (including Breitbart!) has now turned on him, prompting Skeletor -- I mean Ann Coulter -- to tweet "At this point,who DOESN'T want Trump impeached?" Our beloved Tuna is clearly one, but of course there's that whole can of worms about a Pence presidency too...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 14, 2017, 20:40:29
Personally, I don't think DACA was anything other than forcing Congress to do their job.

Could be a win for the Right, if they get it done. Pass legislation that gives you the minority vote.
Title: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 14, 2017, 23:17:53
I think the pope hasn't been happy with Donald Trump from day one. There was the whole sexual assault thing, the affairs, the unfettered greed coupled with ripping people off, the white supremacy, you know, the sort of "non-Christian" stuff that Trump does that doesn't seem to bother his evangelical base, and the kind of stuff that Trump supporters seem to be willing to overlook because he's done such a great job. Remind me again, what are some of his accomplishments? You're cute when you're all deflecty, boo!

This sexual harassment is getting old... I'm not your boo, I'm not even gay. Never will understand why gay men always think they can convert a heterosexual man... we don't respond to the peanut butter the same as your dog you know.

Trump has done very well at aggravating people like you, I call that BIG win.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: runmikeyrun on Sep 15, 2017, 14:03:29

Trump has done very well at aggravating people like you, I call that BIG win.


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Kinda sums up what this whole thing is about for a lot of Trump supporters- we just do whatever we want because it makes you mad.  100% childish.  It's incredible to me what people are willing to flush down the toilet just to spite someone else.


Here's where I list all my bikes:
'71 Kaw 250 Bison
'81 KZ750 cafe
'94 XR250L
2014 Yamaha Bolt

In progress: '68 CL350

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 15, 2017, 15:42:50
Kinda sums up what this whole thing is about for a lot of Trump supporters- we just do whatever we want because it makes you mad.  100% childish.  It's incredible to me what people are willing to flush down the toilet just to spite someone else.


Here's where I list all my bikes:
'71 Kaw 250 Bison
'81 KZ750 cafe
'94 XR250L
2014 Yamaha Bolt

In progress: '68 CL350
The entire political set up is childish.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 15, 2017, 17:27:13
Kinda reminds me of this one.

And yeah, chicken, cool it with the "boo" thing. You're skirting the line with that.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 15, 2017, 22:13:59
This sexual harassment is getting old... I'm not your boo, I'm not even gay. Never will understand why gay men always think they can convert a heterosexual man... we don't respond to the peanut butter the same as your dog you know.

Sorry guy, never wanted you to feel sexually harassed, I guess it's not just us snowflakes who have feelings, right? Not sure that gay men always think they can convert heterosexual men, but I appreciate the comparison to dogs.

And yeah, chicken, cool it with the "boo" thing. You're skirting the line with that.

Will do, I'll stick to manly insults from now on!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 20, 2017, 11:54:22
I am childish, I still love toys and playing in the mud 🤷🏼‍♂️


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Sep 20, 2017, 13:22:30
SMH...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 27, 2017, 19:31:15
Just 'cuz everyone has their panties in a bunch taking sides on the whole NFL (NBA, MLB) stupidity and how black people just never find the right moment to protest, thought I'd share a few things that people may find interesting (and no, it's not more of the nuclear brinkmanship with North Korea or even KJU calling Trump a dotard!).

You know how angry Trump supporters were over Clinton's emails (even though she wasn't found criminally negligible)? Jared Kushner and others have been using a private email servers for White House business. Conspicuously absent are calls from the right to "Lock them up."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/26/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-staff-private-email-official-white-house-work

Did you know Kushner is registered to vote as a woman? His issues filling out security clearance paperwork correctly and truthfully apparently fit to other important documents as well (unless he actually is a woman, and hey, I'm not judging).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4926016/Jared-Kushner-registered-vote-New-York-WOMAN.html

Manafort is preparing to be indicted, but that shouldn't be too surprising given the warrant served in July.

Trump has refused to lift shipping restrictions that would help Puerto Rico recover (obviously not because they're "brown", right?), although DHS is now increasing pressure to do so.

And Roy Moore won in Alabama.

Here in CDMX we are still recovering from the earthquake. I'm guessing a US recovery will take much longer. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 28, 2017, 10:12:48
Is this guy someone famous?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 28, 2017, 11:20:44
Is this guy someone famous?
Yes.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 28, 2017, 18:23:23
Yes.

I've got out of touch!

I must be getting old.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 29, 2017, 02:47:47
Mr. Smooth (or is that Ms.?)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 29, 2017, 08:43:52
Mr. Smooth (or is that Ms.?)

I hope they file charges... then Hillary can have that stroke she's fearing.


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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Sep 29, 2017, 12:03:58
Hillary, Ivanka, and Jared can share a room in the cardiac unit.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Sep 29, 2017, 13:49:32
Not as bad as the Tax plan that gives nothing at the bottom end but save Trump millions.  And later this year the congress will demand huge cuts to "entitlements" because the deficit is blowing out.  And that will hurt those same people that voted for that snake oil salesman. 

What is missing in all of this is a vision for how exactly Trump and his motley crew think that will Make America Gay Again (Will and Grace according to the news).  What industries or sectors will thrive, what will be done to promote innovation?  Check out the Chinese plan to dominate in areas that the US used to lead - technology, clean energy etc.

Our plan seems to be screw the rest of the world, we are going back to the good old days.  There is no plan and it shows in the Healthcare debacle and in the latest Tax stupidity. The Donald is not a visionary or a leader.  He is transactional and not transformational and that is not enough.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Sep 29, 2017, 14:06:08
Not as bad as the Tax plan that gives nothing at the bottom end but save Trump millions.  And later this year the congress will demand huge cuts to "entitlements" because the deficit is blowing out.  And that will hurt those same people that voted for that snake oil salesman. 

What is missing in all of this is a vision for how exactly Trump and his motley crew think that will Make America Gay Again (Will and Grace according to the news).  What industries or sectors will thrive, what will be done to promote innovation?  Check out the Chinese plan to dominate in areas that the US used to lead - technology, clean energy etc.

Our plan seems to be screw the rest of the world, we are going back to the good old days.  There is no plan and it shows in the Healthcare debacle and in the latest Tax stupidity. The Donald is not a visionary or a leader.  He is transactional and not transformational and that is not enough.

Well that tax plan gives a nice bump in overall taxes paid for the poorest earners. That's something. MAGA!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 29, 2017, 15:59:50
Not as bad as the Tax plan that gives nothing at the bottom end but save Trump millions.  And later this year the congress will demand huge cuts to "entitlements" because the deficit is blowing out.  And that will hurt those same people that voted for that snake oil salesman. 

What is missing in all of this is a vision for how exactly Trump and his motley crew think that will Make America Gay Again (Will and Grace according to the news).  What industries or sectors will thrive, what will be done to promote innovation?  Check out the Chinese plan to dominate in areas that the US used to lead - technology, clean energy etc.

Our plan seems to be screw the rest of the world, we are going back to the good old days.  There is no plan and it shows in the Healthcare debacle and in the latest Tax stupidity. The Donald is not a visionary or a leader.  He is transactional and not transformational and that is not enough.
Manufacturing is busier than it has been in the last 4-5 years, by a large margin. Everybody is hiring, everybody is busy as can be. Yet, we struggle to find skilled labor to take on the extra work. Except for oil and gas shops. They're rather slow.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 29, 2017, 16:00:46
Hillary, Ivanka, and Jared can share a room in the cardiac unit.
I'll gladly share a room with Ivanka, being that's my name and all.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Sep 29, 2017, 18:51:12
Your name is J-Rod10, not even close to Jared.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 29, 2017, 20:53:23
another one bites the dust …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 29, 2017, 22:43:57
Your name is J-Rod10, not even close to Jared.
Lol.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Sep 30, 2017, 02:44:43
Price made it 23 Mooches, a new record?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Sep 30, 2017, 11:21:58
American companies are gearing up for a tariff on machine tools, as rumors of a tariff on Canada's Bombardier Aircraft, create fear. Obama was the Great Gun Salesman, Trump is now the Great Machine Tool Salesman! I am slammed with work, five of us are trying to cover seven states. I could pay off a nice Bentley in five years just on Federal taxes alone.

The Puma SMX 3100, is a dual spindle multi axis machine that can make a complicated large part in one setup. What used to take several operations on several machines, can be accomplished in one now.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 30, 2017, 12:26:58
American companies are gearing up for a tariff on machine tools, as rumors of a tariff on Canada's Bombardier Aircraft, create fear. Obama was the Great Gun Salesman, Trump is now the Great Machine Tool Salesman! I am slammed with work, five of us are trying to cover seven states. I could pay off a nice Bentley in five years just on Federal taxes alone.

The Puma SMX 3100, is a dual spindle multi axis machine that can make a complicated large part in one setup. What used to take several operations on several machines, can be accomplished in one now.
You a Doosan rep? Stellar machines. Been talking to the salesman over my area about a DNM500II.

Out of curiosity, what's the sticker on that SMX?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 30, 2017, 17:55:00
At least Tom Price has plenty of company!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 30, 2017, 17:56:27
Not forgetting those in supporting roles …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Sep 30, 2017, 22:48:46
You a Doosan rep? Stellar machines. Been talking to the salesman over my area about a DNM500II.

Out of curiosity, what's the sticker on that SMX?

I think about $625,000, I'm a service engineer. Doosan is a company that actually takes field recommendations and employs them. Forced lubricated spindles will last a lifetime over grease packed, roller linears over ball, are almost as rigid as boxways. Most cases are as rigid. Hydraulic systems have been eliminated on most mills now. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 03, 2017, 23:42:44
the 'Mooch' gets weird(er)!

Keeping up the tradition of not knowing what he's doing.

https://twitter.com/ScaramucciPost (https://twitter.com/ScaramucciPost)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 10, 2017, 22:22:28
everyone wants to be an author!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: jag767 on Oct 11, 2017, 04:56:58
everyone wants to be an author!


Hahahahaha that's fantastic!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 17, 2017, 17:54:01
The "ban" banned (again)!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Oct 17, 2017, 18:52:32
Speaking of the Mooch -- apparently his twitter account posted a poll yesterday asking how many Jews were killed in the holocaust, after posting an ad for an Anne Frank Halloween costume.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 17, 2017, 19:46:02
Speaking of the Mooch …

and polls about nuclear first strikes …

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Oct 18, 2017, 00:48:54
And I keep going back to what I read about Will and Grace.  Make America Gay Again........... That would drive them all nuts..

I saw a Tee Shirt yesterday that said something like:

The universe is
Made up of Neutrons
Electrons
and Morons


Almost got it right... https://www.etsy.com/listing/251699202/funny-science-t-shirt-the-universe-is?gpla=1&gao=1&utm_campaign=shopping_us_HappyHeadTees_sfc_osa&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_custom1=0&utm_content=7752704&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzN_agKL51gIVDIFpCh0JVAU0EAQYASABEgKv5vD_BwE


Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 28, 2017, 02:10:09
Some people are going to have an anxious weekend …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Oct 28, 2017, 14:14:05
Hmm, Comey is fired then he starts a special investigation, to prevent lost research. Fox is non-stop Uranium One, and Hillary's emails. Kind of like a car heading off a cliff, and changing the radio station to prevent the accident. Hannity is going off the rails over corrupt CIA, FBI, and DOJ. I think his pet is in trouble.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Oct 28, 2017, 17:46:51
Hmm, Comey is fired then he starts a special investigation, to prevent lost research. Fox is non-stop Uranium One, and Hillary's emails. Kind of like a car heading off a cliff, and changing the radio station to prevent the accident. Hannity is going off the rails over corrupt CIA, FBI, and DOJ. I think his pet is in trouble.

It's amazing that there are still so many Republicans who get in line behind Trump knowing how stupid and badly (criminally?) behaved he is because they think their agenda is advancing.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 29, 2017, 21:57:46
"How to Win Friends and Influence People"
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 29, 2017, 22:36:44
a momentous occasion!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Oct 30, 2017, 10:17:43
I have a hard time getting excited about Manafort's  arrest. It's a flaw in the system. If there is a crime, it will come to light. The tax money on endless investigations on Hillary Clinton, she murdered 96 people, The Clinton Foundation finances terrorists constantly spewed by a few talking heads, that unfortunately, have Trump's full attention as being true.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Oct 30, 2017, 10:49:10
"How to Win Friends and Influence People"
People take things so literally these days. Someone uses a metaphor, all of a sudden he called us inmates, let's protest that too.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 30, 2017, 16:02:37
They used tax evasion to get Al Capone …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Oct 30, 2017, 20:54:57
Guilty
(http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/webster-alex-karras1.jpg)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Oct 30, 2017, 20:55:25
They used tax evasion to get Al Capone …
This shit is about to get wild.

Nail one of Trump's guys, mostly for what he did while working for The Podesta Group, which was Hillary's guy. One of the Podesta brothers resigned today. Rumor is they are one of the companies labeled A & B in the indictment. Kushner hops a flight, unannounced, this weekend to a non extradition country when it comes out that shit is going down Monday.

All in all, I think many, from both sides of the isle, are going down in this. May it be a marvelous ball of fire.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 05, 2017, 15:50:59
Ha!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 06, 2017, 05:26:08
Deranged …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 06, 2017, 05:31:08
numbers …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 14, 2017, 20:09:49
Moore is less …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Nov 15, 2017, 01:19:30
Moore is less …

They may very well put Sessions in his place.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 16, 2017, 07:00:25
The sky is falling!

Facts on Fox:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 17, 2017, 01:17:51
What can be said about JK?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 24, 2017, 05:21:39
It might be getting interesting!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 24, 2017, 19:50:11
Turkey.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 25, 2017, 18:22:55
Fake news!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: The Limey on Nov 25, 2017, 23:11:43
Well, look on the bright side.  He's not Obama.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 25, 2017, 23:14:49
Ha!

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Nov 26, 2017, 10:23:49
He put himself on anyway, here's his, posted in his golf resorts. Reminds you of the Wild Ones, when Marlon Brando stole a trophy, and strapped it to his Thunderbird.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 28, 2017, 01:49:23
Stand-up lost a star when he went to politics:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 02, 2017, 20:54:26
Regrets?

18 July 2016

Having established himself as a fiery surrogate for candidate Donald Trump, at the Republican national convention in Cleveland Michael Flynn leads the crowd in chants of ‘Lock her up!’ directed against Trump’s opponent, Hillary Clinton

Photograph: Alex Wong/Getty Images
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Dec 03, 2017, 01:26:40
Groan...another Trump University grad? STeven T. MNuchin
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 03, 2017, 03:14:03
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: jag767 on Dec 03, 2017, 08:28:33
.

I thought it before I even saw this yesterday. I think they already came out and said he didn't send the tweet. I say Mueller should subpoena twitter to find out where it originated. When it shows it came from his phone, they should charge his fat ass.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 03, 2017, 08:50:32
An interesting item from Flynn's plea deal:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Dec 03, 2017, 16:26:48
The whole Trump wrecking crew that have filled the swamp should be in jail before they do any more damage to the US and the rest of the world..
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Dec 05, 2017, 16:24:05
The whole Trump wrecking crew that have filled the swamp should be in jail before they do any more damage to the US and the rest of the world..
Oh god no, the entertainments just too good. He has the pc crowd over here screaming their lungs out daily. News are all trump this, trump that. We hardly have time for domestic news anymore. Our politicians must be overjoyed, they dont even have to cover up their suicidally stupid shit anymore.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on Dec 05, 2017, 20:30:20
When both parties are pervs, but you know...Jesus's mother was 14 too? Where was that in the Bible?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 21, 2017, 21:30:52
Perhaps people don't like being bullied and threatened …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 24, 2017, 02:31:06
Ha!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 26, 2017, 21:15:26
“This is infinity here. It could be infinity. We don’t really don’t know. But it could be. It has to be something – but it could be infinity, right?”

Partly explains Buzz Aldrin's expression …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 29, 2017, 21:09:17
I thought the Mexicans were paying for it …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 01, 2018, 15:50:31
Happy New Year!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 04, 2018, 16:22:46
They're beyond parody!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jan 04, 2018, 16:37:30
It's pretty surreal watching this shitshow unfold from Mexico.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 06, 2018, 18:32:23
I feel reassured …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Jan 07, 2018, 08:13:53
I feel reassured …
Psychopathic megalomania anyone?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 08, 2018, 20:21:23
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 09, 2018, 15:49:45
It's going to be an interesting year …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 09, 2018, 17:45:39
not unexpected:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 11, 2018, 21:27:03
POTUS talk:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jan 12, 2018, 14:24:51
Can we stop arguing about whether this guy is racist yet?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teledan on Jan 12, 2018, 16:22:12
Can we stop arguing about whether this guy is racist yet?

Seriously.  He is making it pretty clear for us.  I just can't understand all of the people who are sticking up for him after these remarks.  He is blatantly discriminating against people who are from certain countries. 

Anyone remember this?

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

I don't care what he calls these countries, that doesn't bother me.  What bothers me is that he thinks we should not be accepting PEOPLE from these countries, just because they are from those countries.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 16, 2018, 16:42:37
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 18, 2018, 12:30:26
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 21, 2018, 18:44:10
Why are these people smiling?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jan 22, 2018, 01:39:10
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html)

That's good, but interestingly the latest tax changes actually promote overseas manufacturing.  Those apple jobs are all good of course but would happen anyway to grow the App business and the data centers were going to be built as well.  Steve Jobs made an interesting observation some years ago that the US does not turn out enough production engineers that could possibly be sufficient to fuel the Apple demand, so they have no choice but to manufacture overseas.

And of course their pricing model is to buy low (overseas) and sell high. That isn't going to change.  Manufacturers are not going to push up their cost of production in the US as long as they have access to vast cheap labor pools overseas.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 22, 2018, 10:57:27
That money would have never seen US soil without the tax change. They've been hoarding it overseas for a decade due to nothing more than the tax laws that were on the books.

For it to be promoting offshoring work, as you say, the manufacturing sector stateside is absolutely booming, at levels not seen since the early 2000s.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 25, 2018, 15:25:17
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html)

He could have closed the tax loophole and brought that many jobs and money back three fold. Instead he is actively fucking the economy. I wonder if the solar tax has anything to do with the fact the Exxon CEO is the Secretary of State

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-solar-tariffs-solar-panels-thousands-of-job-losses-2018-1

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/feb/28/us-tourism-experiences-a-trump-slump
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 25, 2018, 15:36:13
I wonder what happens when the president lies under oath …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jan 25, 2018, 16:38:40
I wonder what happens when the president lies under oath …

ask Bill Clinton
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 25, 2018, 18:15:24
He could have closed the tax loophole and brought that many jobs and money back three fold. Instead he is actively fucking the economy. I wonder if the solar tax has anything to do with the fact the Exxon CEO is the Secretary of State

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-solar-tariffs-solar-panels-thousands-of-job-losses-2018-1

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/feb/28/us-tourism-experiences-a-trump-slump
Out of curiosity, how can you make a company bring money here that was made overseas, at overseas businesses?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jan 25, 2018, 18:23:49
That money would have never seen US soil without the tax change. They've been hoarding it overseas for a decade due to nothing more than the tax laws that were on the books.

For it to be promoting offshoring work, as you say, the manufacturing sector stateside is absolutely booming, at levels not seen since the early 2000s.

Timing is everything in this discussion.  The tax changes allow companies to make profits overseas and to bring that cash back at a lower tax rate than if they had earned the money in the US. Hence it encourages future profits to be "earned" overseas and actively discourages investment in the US- That's from here on in.

Jobs have rebounded progressively over the last 6 years or so and have continued, albeit at a lower pace, under the current administration. Some of that is in manufacturing but not a lot.  The US had basically come close to what economists call "full employment" in 2017.  That doesn't mean that everyone has a job and people in areas that are economically depressed are not counted if they are not looking for a job.

Those are the people that Trump promised he would bring back coal mines and manufacturing and none of that has happened or is likely to happen much.  Coal for general heating and power generation is more expensive than gas, so simple economics kill those jobs.  What Trump is doing to those people is to try to kill their healthcare and do deny them benefits unless they have work, which ain't going to happen.

Apple cash being repatriated was going to happen eventually for them to continue to build their business. Trump just made it cheaper for them to do so and they took advantage of the offer - as they should. 

His SOLAR tariff just hurts jobs.  The cost of panels is a relatively small part of the installed cost.  More than 2/3 of the cost is locally manufactured frames and wiring and installation.  All he did there was to protect a couple of inefficient manufacturers as a knee jerk reaction and so he would look good.  A policy of investing in new technologies was what the last administration did and not always very well.  This administration thinks we should go back to the Golden days of big oil doing what they please and future generations can pay for it.

He cannot do a deal where he doesn't understand the issues and he is too lazy to spend the time doing so.  Instead he listens to people who piss in his ear. That's why we now have a Middle East policy dictated by a
casino owner
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 25, 2018, 18:32:54
He put a tax on imports. I don't particularly have an issue with that. We send stuff anywhere else in the world, the buyer pays a tax to get it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 25, 2018, 18:33:34
Out of curiosity, how can you make a company bring money here that was made overseas, at overseas businesses?

You cant make them bring the money back, you can close the tax loopholes that allow them to legally evade taxes, then create tax incentives for domestic business generation, that is one of the reasons why the US did so well post WWII. The money we would gain from a strong tax code is more than the paltry amount we will see by allowing multinationals to repatriate money.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 25, 2018, 18:34:43
I don't particularly see how a one time offer to bring money back encourages business overseas. They got the money in the US, the gov got $38B that they wouldn't have. Now, all money is now taxed at the standard corporate rate.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 25, 2018, 18:38:52
Im certainly no tax law effciando

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-offshore-corporate-tax-loopholes/
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 25, 2018, 18:51:19
He put a tax on imports. I don't particularly have an issue with that. We send stuff anywhere else in the world, the buyer pays a tax to get it.

yes but typically taxing imports is done to help out a domestic industry, wheras this hurts the domestic solar industry which employs more people than coal and oil combined.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 25, 2018, 18:55:33
Im certainly no tax law effciando

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-offshore-corporate-tax-loopholes/
Nor am I. That was a genuine question.

It's not like me shipping rear sets all over the world. I'm here, they all leave from here. Apple, they have brick and mortar stores all over the world. Those products sold overseas, have never touched American soil. There's nothing American about them, besides the name on the device. I can 100% understand them not wanting to pay taxes on money a second time, at an even higher rate.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 25, 2018, 18:56:36
yes but typically taxing imports is done to help out a domestic industry, wheras this hurts the domestic solar industry which employs more people than coal and oil combined.
That's what the "experts" are saying. They said the market was going to plummet when Trump was elected too. It very well may hurt installers, in the short term.

Guess we shall find out.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 25, 2018, 18:56:43
I hope no one construes this as a political comment …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 25, 2018, 19:04:49
Nor am I. That was a genuine question.

It's not like me shipping rear sets all over the world. I'm here, they all leave from here. Apple, they have brick and mortar stores all over the world. Those products sold overseas, have never touched American soil. There's nothing American about them, besides the name on the device. I can 100% understand them not wanting to pay taxes on money a second time, at an even higher rate.

That would be true if they paid ANY taxes at all. Hell, as a small business owner you probably pay more in taxes than Apple does, and why this tax law is bullshit. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/20/how-to-make-30-billion-and-pay-no-corporate-income-tax-the-apple-way/?utm_term=.8c18fa4c717a

in 2017 The US was loosing 90 billion a year to corporate tax loopholes.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jan 25, 2018, 20:56:37
There's taxes and then there's loopholes and then there are tariffs. 

Tariffs are an artificial "tax" to protect local industries.   One example was Australia were they reduced the tariff protection on imported autos and managed to close down the whole Australian auto industry and related supply chains.  Applying and reducing or eliminating tarriff protection should be done very carefully.  Not the way this administration acts.

The tax situation is complicated as it relates to the value added in a country and taxes that country can charge on profits.  Australian Tax Office ATO has a fairly aggressive approach to what is known as Transfer Pricing Policy to ensure that they get a fair share of the profits.  Companies try all sorts of tricks to pretend the profit was earned elsewhere so that they pay little to no taxes.

In addition, large corporations have changed teir place of business to countries wit low or zero corporate taxes despite the fact that their real head offices stayed in the US.  It's another way to pay minimal amounts of corporate tax. As individual tax payers or small business, we don't have that luxury.

There are millionaire tax accountants that advise large corporations about this stuff and the top guys are earning millions for their firms and for themselves. Who is missing out?  That would be our government that is missing teh revenue it needs to cover expenses and teh interest bill on all teh trillions it has borrowed.

Anorher tax we tend to ignore is Sales Tax.  Used to be we would go the local store or dealer to buy everything and we'd be charged sales tax in states that have it.  Withe  the rise in on line business, most states have lost that income stream which must put a sever bite on their ability to provide services.

Back to Apple again for a moment.  The value in their product is not just the hardware but is in the design and software.  Any Apple product sold anywhare in the world is generating income to cover that Apple head office R&D cost and should be correctly taxed as US generated income in its transfer pricing.  I am not privy to either their transfer pricing model nor their tax returns so can't comment on how well their tax attorneys have done their lobbying let alone how much tax they pay or should pay.

What you can determine is that large corporations generally pay less tax (relatively) than small business or individual tax payers.  What Congress just did was to tilt that further in favor of large corporations and also to help real Estate developers.  There is no such thing as Coincidence.  Trump just approved a large net cash bonus for himself and the rest of us will end up paying for it - one way or another.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jan 25, 2018, 21:02:32
That's what the "experts" are saying. They said the market was going to plummet when Trump was elected too. It very well may hurt installers, in the short term.

Guess we shall find out.

Different "experts".  It does look like the pass through of those cost increase will end up hurting consumers and/or installers.  It's a pity that the administartion didn't take teh time to work through the economic models that prior administrations did.  As with any forecast, there are assumptions that may not turn out to be accurate, but prior administartions did try to evaluate teh overall impact of such tariffs before announcing them.

I am told that many of the economists that used to work for the administration have now left because their recommendations and reports are ignored by the Trump administration because the WH doesn't want to be constrained by facts or opinions other that the Chump in Chief got from watching Fox and Friends.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 25, 2018, 21:04:11
I don't know about you, but I haven't talked to a business owner, small or large, that's displeased with it.

What the government needs to do, is curb their spending.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: SONIC. on Jan 25, 2018, 21:11:16
It's important to realize that the tax cut was not only for huge corporations. I'm not for tax cuts to huge industry any more than the next guy, but this bill also applies to all small business owners. I personally will get to write off 20% of my income and take larger standard deductions. My accountant included a page in my tax preparation this year that shows me how it will effect me. Through the deduction difference, the 20% pass through write-off and the rate changes (and associated income tax rate drop from showing less income) it will save me 38% next year.
That's HUGE for my small business. Game changing really. That's 38% more revenue I can take home to my family or reinvest or pay to my employees.

I am not a trump fan but I'm good with this one :)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 25, 2018, 21:24:37
It's important to realize that the tax cut was not only for huge corporations. I'm not for tax cuts to huge industry any more than the next guy, but this bill also applies to all small business owners. I personally will get to write off 20% of my income and take larger standard deductions. My accountant included a page in my tax preparation this year that shows me how it will effect me. Through the deduction difference, the 20% pass through write-off and the rate changes (and associated income tax rate drop from showing less income) it will save me 38% next year.
That's HUGE for my small business. Game changing really. That's 38% more revenue I can take home to my family or reinvest or pay to my employees.

I am not a trump fan but I'm good with this one :)

Exactly.

All you see is rich people this, rich people that. Big corporation this, big corporation that.

Sure the big boys get a cut. But so do the millions and millions of small businesses, that employ over half of the work force.

If I have more money for more equipment, I then have a need for more people to run them. If we're running at "full employment," I then have to pay them more to entice them to leave where ever they currently are. They then have more money to put in to the local economy. I have another machine running making me more money. The company I snagged whoever from, has to pay someone else more money to get them to leave their current gig, and on and on.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 26, 2018, 00:24:21
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jan 26, 2018, 16:33:38
I don't know about you, but I haven't talked to a business owner, small or large, that's displeased with it.

What the government needs to do, is curb their spending.

That's not a bad point.  Our US tax collections as percentage of GDP is roughy in line with most other developed countries but our cost structure is much different.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

A quick look at US budget suggests that the two largest costs are Military and Healthcare.  Our military expenditure is something like the combined next 8-10 countries and we want to spend more. We don't need a weaker or less effective military but we could be a lot more efficient and cost effective.  problem with that is that they are effective lobbyists and it's an emotional issue.

On healthcare we also spend twice as much as any other country per capita but our outcomes rate us somewhere around 24th.  Again big pharma and "not for profit" health centers have effective lobbying.  So it's clear that there could be some big cuts in those two areas, we may lack the political courage to address them.  They are very emotional subjects, and yet we need to address them as you pointed out.  Cutting welfare sounds like a great start but it doesn't save a lot and hurts people.  How about we press government to stop paying more for drugs than any other civilized country.  Service and safety do not need to suffer, but that is not going to be an easy task to cut costs.  We need to do it though.

I'm with you on that. (not with her or him).... 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 26, 2018, 22:03:40
That's not a bad point.  Our US tax collections as percentage of GDP is roughy in line with most other developed countries but our cost structure is much different.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

A quick look at US budget suggests that the two largest costs are Military and Healthcare.  Our military expenditure is something like the combined next 8-10 countries and we want to spend more. We don't need a weaker or less effective military but we could be a lot more efficient and cost effective.  problem with that is that they are effective lobbyists and it's an emotional issue.

On healthcare we also spend twice as much as any other country per capita but our outcomes rate us somewhere around 24th.  Again big pharma and "not for profit" health centers have effective lobbying.  So it's clear that there could be some big cuts in those two areas, we may lack the political courage to address them.  They are very emotional subjects, and yet we need to address them as you pointed out.  Cutting welfare sounds like a great start but it doesn't save a lot and hurts people.  How about we press government to stop paying more for drugs than any other civilized country.  Service and safety do not need to suffer, but that is not going to be an easy task to cut costs.  We need to do it though.

I'm with you on that. (not with her or him)....

Or we could make corporations pay there fair share. They're good for an addition 90 billion a year if they actually paid up. cutting public assistance programs will come nowhere near that. if you want to cut welfare cut corporate welfare. Politicians love to complain about the mythical "welfare queen" yet nobody is talking about the $60 billion fortune 500 companies collect every year in subsidies. Corporations are looting our country while simultaneously telling the middle class its the poor peoples fault.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jan 26, 2018, 22:20:20
NY, NJ, and Connecticut are about to sue the federal government saying the new tax is unfair to high earners, as their deductions on local, state, and property taxes have been reduced to $10K, and they'll be required to pay more in taxes.

Who's for the little guy, again?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Jan 27, 2018, 06:14:25
NY, NJ, and Connecticut are about to sue the federal government saying the new tax is unfair to high earners, as their deductions on local, state, and property taxes have been reduced to $10K, and they'll be required to pay more in taxes.

Who's for the little guy, again?
Anything that upsets the rich and greedy is great news
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 27, 2018, 08:33:26
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jan 27, 2018, 13:16:50
NY, NJ, and Connecticut are about to sue the federal government saying the new tax is unfair to high earners, as their deductions on local, state, and property taxes have been reduced to $10K, and they'll be required to pay more in taxes.

Who's for the little guy, again?


Not so fast.  The states that have higher state and local taxes tend to be more populous and have more programs to help the poor and elderly.  They also happen to be states that voted overwhelmingly for HC.  What better way to punish HC donors than to hit them with slightly higher taxes.  The super rich people also see a rate drop that more than covers that SALT tax increase but not as much as if they were red state donors to DT.

It is completely consistent with the party that arranges to most egregious gerrymandering of voting districts and is outraged that Trump said he might be open to DACA path to citizenship because they might vote democrat. Anyone that says it's a middle class tax cut is kidding themselves. There's just enough scraps to keep us feeling good while he continues to redistribute wealth from the population to the super rich.

It has happened for years and is just accelerating.



Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 06, 2018, 04:19:30
Will he or won't he?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 14, 2018, 16:38:35
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 14, 2018, 16:53:22
Right... out of the goodness of his heart, and because they didn't have sex.

And Hannity today is parroting an alt-right/white nationalist post on 4chan that Obama's residential portrait contains images of sperm.

El que hambre tiene, en pan piensa.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Feb 15, 2018, 11:23:30
I see you shills are still here sucking each others dicks and blaming Trump for your lack of parenting  :o
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 15, 2018, 12:12:01
I see you shills are still here sucking each others dicks and blaming Trump for your lack of parenting  :o

Tuna! So nice of you to drop by! Miss you buddy! I thought you might've been smart enough to be embarrassed at this shit show and your wholehearted support, but of course not! Nice of you to drop by and call us all gay! That's how arguments are won, amiright? Genius!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Feb 15, 2018, 12:18:18
Tuna! So nice of you to drop by! Miss you buddy! I thought you might've been smart enough to be embarrassed at this shit show and your wholehearted support, but of course not! Nice of you to drop by and call us all gay! That's how arguments are won, amiright? Genius!

Lovely to see you here Chicken. would of thought you to have jumped by now, but you obviously have more ranting to shout... carry on!.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Feb 15, 2018, 18:04:33
Did he clear the swamp or was he part of it? How's the war within the deep state going? Us foreign sods are dying to know, although we have our own shit to deal with.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 15, 2018, 18:08:14
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 15, 2018, 18:15:25
Now we've got the all-in Trumpista back (I suspect he was lurking all along but will deny that), I'd be interested to know the good things Trump's been doing, not for him but for the country as a whole, America's reputation abroad, and politics in general. It'd be kind of useless to write a list of all the insane shit that's been happening and the lies that Trump's been telling, because we all know them. The recent tax plan is going to overwhelmingly benefit the uber wealthy -- perhaps Tuna is a closet oligarch? The rise of white nationalism and the alt-right -- anyone going to argue that's a good thing? Increasing violence against minorities? A political system arguably more divided than it's been in the last 150 years?

Enquiring minds want to know.

But I suspect we might get more gay slurs, fart jokes, and whatever other 4th-grade stuff we should expect.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 16, 2018, 08:02:20
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Feb 16, 2018, 08:06:17
Now we've got the all-in Trumpista back (I suspect he was lurking all along but will deny that), I'd be interested to know the good things Trump's been doing, not for him but for the country as a whole, America's reputation abroad, and politics in general. It'd be kind of useless to write a list of all the insane shit that's been happening and the lies that Trump's been telling, because we all know them. The recent tax plan is going to overwhelmingly benefit the uber wealthy -- perhaps Tuna is a closet oligarch? The rise of white nationalism and the alt-right -- anyone going to argue that's a good thing? Increasing violence against minorities? A political system arguably more divided than it's been in the last 150 years?

Enquiring minds want to know.

But I suspect we might get more gay slurs, fart jokes, and whatever other 4th-grade stuff we should expect.
At least its funnier than pc-humor!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: jag767 on Feb 16, 2018, 15:52:47
Damn dude, there's non PC, offensive, and then that.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Feb 16, 2018, 17:56:40
I meant none of it, I am human. But also have no filter and every right to my opinion... too.


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 16, 2018, 17:58:34
You've been warned before. Good bye and good luck with the job hunt.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: SONIC. on Feb 16, 2018, 18:24:49
Lol how does someone come to act like that?
Pure unpleasant douche.
Good riddance.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Feb 16, 2018, 18:29:01
Lol how does someone come to act like that?
Pure unpleasant douche.
Good riddance.
I hadn't seen anything from him in a while. Looked the other night, he hadn't been on since like October. Then, Bam.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 18, 2018, 22:53:09
Reprehensible:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 19, 2018, 01:33:18
Reprehensible:

That's disgusting.

There is a plan being circulated on social media for high school kids to walk out on April 20 unless Congress does something (insert 4/20 joke here). Those calcified in their opinions that nothing can be done about the mass killing in the US will hem and haw and argue that the 2nd amendment trumps all, only criminals will have guns, we need to arm teachers, the only time people bring up the issue is when there is a tragedy such as this, the news never reports when a guy with a gun stops a bad guy -- all the usual BS -- will likely write it off. But goddam, maybe kids can show adults that they care about their safety in schools and are demanding something be done.

And they and other are rightfully, IMHO, calling those who resist or throw up their hands complicit.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: morgs88 on Feb 19, 2018, 02:20:25
You all sit here moaning.....

Your the ones who voted him in.


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Feb 19, 2018, 04:24:02
Damn dude, there's non PC, offensive, and then that.
That shit he wrote was way out of line. If the guy really has no filter he ought to have received a fair share of beatings irl. Too easy to blurt shit without consequence online.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Feb 19, 2018, 11:24:14
Sounds to me that Tune was royally pissed off with losing his job after moving across country and is just lashing out. I am not suggesting that what he said could be excused, but maybe there was something larger going on in his life.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 19, 2018, 11:32:40
You all sit here moaning.....
Your the ones who voted him in.

Well that's simply not true. Voter turnout was at 55%, so 45% of eligible people didn't vote. Those people shouldn't be moaning, although some of those people were disenfranchised so there's that.

Trump lost the popular vote, 46% to Clinton's 48%, so there's that. Less than half of 55% of eligible voters chose Trump.

Of those who did vote for him, many have withdrawn their support because of his actions (although really, if you voted for Trump and expected something different, you should probably get your head checked). His approval rating is at 38%.

The Russia investigation is getting worse, and he became unhinged over it (on Twitter) last weekend in the shadow of yet another mass killing (of children in a school).

Don't know what others here on DTT who oppose this are doing, but many are not simply sitting around complaining on message boards.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: morgs88 on Feb 19, 2018, 11:35:38
For bike lads, fuck trump fuck polotics


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 19, 2018, 13:36:12
For bike lads, fuck trump fuck polotics

Wait, now you're moaning about Trump? Jajaja!

You don't have to read this, you know.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: morgs88 on Feb 19, 2018, 13:53:59
No I’m just saying you div......
why are people even talking about trump
On a motorcycle forum anyway. Fuck him fuck politics keep this about bikes and bikes only. All you yanks OTT any way


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 19, 2018, 14:40:00
No I’m just saying you div......
why are people even talking about trump
On a motorcycle forum anyway. Fuck him fuck politics keep this about bikes and bikes only. All you yanks OTT any way

Cheers, div. Dictionaries are available if you need a little help, BTW.

Seems like you're new here. I'll try to help again -- if you only want to read about bikes and bikes only, don't click on the section that is labelled "turn your brain off and shoot the shit" with the sub category "politics/religion/debates." And if you need a little more help, since you already posted to this one you can unsubscribe and you won't see it anymore.

Nothing like a newb coming in and trying to tell everyone else what to do.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: morgs88 on Feb 19, 2018, 14:48:14
Redacted by the admins
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 19, 2018, 14:53:52
Oh boy.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Feb 19, 2018, 15:33:53
New guy's looking like he may not be around long enough to not be the new guy anymore.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: jag767 on Feb 20, 2018, 22:01:32
New guy's looking like he may not be around long enough to not be the new guy anymore.

Lol why whatever could you mean?  ;D
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 21, 2018, 20:03:57
A new pinnacle of stupidity (but not a surprise):
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Feb 21, 2018, 20:17:54
A new pinnacle of stupidity (but not a surprise):

The solution is obvious, you need to arm all the students. Teach firearms protocol at a young age so they develop good habits.
Sheesh
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 22, 2018, 19:42:19
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 25, 2018, 03:37:10
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 25, 2018, 18:02:55
I am hoping these are the last breaths of the NRA in its current form. Lapierre's speech in the wake of this tragedy was unhinged, especially the divisive language that portrays non-supporters as dangerous enemies of America. I hope the campaign -- led by kids! -- continues to make progress, and that more companies take a stand and eliminate ties to the NRA. It's likely in most cases simply a business decision, but if pressure makes it bad business hopefully it will have a snowball effect, and people who join the NRA simply for the fringe benefits peel off. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 27, 2018, 01:57:13
Sure …

(he must have had his heel spurs removed)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Feb 27, 2018, 07:37:29
Sure …

(he must have had his heel spurs removed)
I love how a megalomanic pathological liar is first choice for president.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Feb 27, 2018, 07:40:51
He lost the popular vote, so I don't think I'd consider him first choice.  Between the Electoral College and gerrymandering, it's not the cleanest system we have going on over here.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Feb 27, 2018, 11:16:33
It's the lawyer joke all over again. 

How do you tell in Trump is lying?  His lips are moving.   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Feb 27, 2018, 11:19:08
And in a somewhat bizarre twist, Georgia's Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle has threatened Delta Airlines because it is dropping its arrangement with NRA members. He tweeted that he will take away all tax breaks for Delta because "attacks on conservatives" won't be tolerated -- which I guess is plainly stating that the NRA is part of conservative politics in America, and therefore partisan. More idiotic, however, is that people seem to support breaking these ties (Delta is making a business decision), the republican lt. gov. wants to dictate how Delta should do business (free market anyone?), and the cherry on top is that Delta employs 33,000 people in Georgia (who likely won't be happy with a state government that threatens their jobs. And there's the whole using your political position to threaten a business to do what you want it do to. This is getting interesting.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: canyoncarver on Feb 27, 2018, 13:48:26
I love how a megalomanic pathological liar is first choice for president.

Actually, 1st and 2nd choices in our last election.   That's the problem.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Feb 27, 2018, 13:56:11
Actually, 1st and 2nd choices in our last election.   That's the problem.
Its not at all different from our prime minister in fact. He is a very very sick boy as well.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 27, 2018, 17:58:47
Looks like Manafort's lawyers are going to have some work to do …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 27, 2018, 19:27:32
!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 28, 2018, 23:01:44
Mmmm …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 01, 2018, 03:46:44
This has my vote!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 02, 2018, 20:29:30
Swamp creature:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 03, 2018, 21:50:06
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 04, 2018, 07:49:26
Next he will be claiming he thought of it first!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 05, 2018, 20:38:58
Number 4:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 06, 2018, 22:10:49
another one leaving the madhouse …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Mar 08, 2018, 14:24:18
Best.  Headline.  Ever.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: trek97 on Mar 08, 2018, 14:31:15
Best.  Headline.  Ever.

Hahaha yes it is.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Mar 08, 2018, 15:27:41
And it's official.  Sanders announced it in answer to a question yesterday - much to Donnie Bone Spur's chagrin. Get set for a whole lot of smoke and noise from the WH over the next few days to distract journos from that story
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Mar 08, 2018, 16:08:05
And there might be dick pics involved... ouch.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 08, 2018, 19:24:53
Get set for a whole lot of smoke and noise from the WH over the next few days to distract journos from that story

This is probably going to get very messy …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 13, 2018, 17:20:59
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Mar 13, 2018, 19:18:50
This is probably going to get very messy …

Ya think?  It will cost the US billions in rising costs and lost employment.  Many companies import steel and machine it or roll it to sell in the US.  a 25% tariff either moves production to Canada or more likely just eliminates the local US manufacturing base that makes bearings, shafts etc.  For the rest of us it raises costs of cars and white goods etc so it may also become more economical to import the finished product.

But the whole thing was simply a diversion to make sure that no one talked about the TPP that was signed by 11 countries - no USA to improve trade between themselves and the US is excluded because the Moron in Chief thinks he can do better deals than anyone else on the planet and completely missed the point of TPP which was designed (not well I might add) to reign in China and increase sales of US goods and services. 

Never mind, we can eat "beautiful clean coal" while China has a plan to dominate new technologies. Makes you wonder. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 13, 2018, 22:47:58
Ya think?  It will cost the US billions in rising costs and lost employment.  Many companies import steel and machine it or roll it to sell in the US.  a 25% tariff either moves production to Canada or more likely just eliminates the local US manufacturing base that makes bearings, shafts etc.  For the rest of us it raises costs of cars and white goods etc so it may also become more economical to import the finished product.

But the whole thing was simply a diversion to make sure that no one talked about the TPP that was signed by 11 countries - no USA to improve trade between themselves and the US is excluded because the Moron in Chief thinks he can do better deals than anyone else on the planet and completely missed the point of TPP which was designed (not well I might add) to reign in China and increase sales of US goods and services. 

Never mind, we can eat "beautiful clean coal" while China has a plan to dominate new technologies. Makes you wonder.

Actually it might not be that bad, they just need to ship it to mexico or canada first, then send it to US, plus a lot of it already gets bought from canada and mexico doesn’t it?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 13, 2018, 22:58:52
Actually it might not be that bad …

Neither the Chinese or the Europeans are likely to just sit on their hands …

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 13, 2018, 23:08:37
Neither the Chinese or the Europeans are likely to just sit on their hands …

Crazy

I don’t expect anybody to sit on their hands. Least of all the American corporations who stand to lose millions from this.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Mar 14, 2018, 00:52:51
It'll be interesting to see what kind of political sea change occurs next in the US, and how quickly the next person will be able to reverse these policies.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Mar 14, 2018, 02:55:12
Best.  Headline.  Ever.
Hehe!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Mar 14, 2018, 08:02:43
Actually it might not be that bad, they just need to ship it to mexico or canada first, then send it to US, plus a lot of it already gets bought from canada and mexico doesn’t it?
The majority of our imported metal comes from those two. China, we get something like 3% of our imports from.

I buy American made aluminum, no price changes thus far. We'll see if it's the same next week.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Mar 14, 2018, 12:35:30
All the Chrome Moly tube I get comes from Germany and the Aluminum I bought a couple of weeks came from China.  I was surprised that none of it came from the US.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Mar 14, 2018, 12:56:38
My old man is a third generation steel worker.  The company he works for in the US is German.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Mar 14, 2018, 12:59:24
I was doing some work for a client recently targeting the steel industry in the US for his products and services and turns out a lot of US capacity is owned by Europeans or Indians and that included the most iconic American mills.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Mar 14, 2018, 14:01:05
All my alloy comes from Kaiser. No idea who owns them, but every stick is stamped "Made in the USA."
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Mar 14, 2018, 14:53:37
I've got a feeling, the way this is going to work, they drop the tariff on our product, we reciprocate on a nation by nation basis.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 15, 2018, 17:49:26
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 16, 2018, 18:09:35
Tax dollars at work:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 16, 2018, 22:31:56
Tax dollars at work:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Mar 16, 2018, 23:40:45
I have a really bad memory, but did someone claim they would drain a swamp or or were they going to re-stock it ?  I don't remember which.  Talk about hogs at the public trough. I guess they are just following their boss's example.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 17, 2018, 01:32:13
Tax dollars at work:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 17, 2018, 18:54:29
Tax dollars at work:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Mar 17, 2018, 21:03:24
We need to fit this in here somewhere.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/us/politics/cambridge-analytica-trump-campaign.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 17, 2018, 22:21:42
We need to fit this in here somewhere.

and more here: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/cambridge-analytica-facebook-influence-us-election

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 17, 2018, 23:49:05
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 18, 2018, 17:18:06
Tax dollars at work:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 19, 2018, 19:41:00
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 20, 2018, 18:15:50
Is Mueller next?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 21, 2018, 20:01:26
this seems to be gaining momentum:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Mar 21, 2018, 20:29:55
Although admittedly they were mostly unhinged, I do kind of miss an oppositional voice here. I mean, I have an idea what one would say -- it's a witch hunt, it's fake news, it's a democratic conspiracy. But seriously, a sitting president facing lawsuits from Playmates and porn stars over extramarital affairs and hush money?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 21, 2018, 21:37:07
I do kind of miss an oppositional voice here …

Support for the OrangeOne is either delusional or self-serving.

The only reasonable argument, although impossible to prove, is that Clinton would have been worse.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 22, 2018, 18:31:53
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 22, 2018, 21:37:18
it was only a matter of time …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 23, 2018, 20:27:50
it was only a matter of time …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 25, 2018, 20:12:11
Uh-oh …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 27, 2018, 18:33:51
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 28, 2018, 23:56:15
Fake news?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 28, 2018, 23:58:21
the OrangeOne is going for a record for staff turnover:
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Mar 29, 2018, 07:47:30
(https://m.popkey.co/5f5d2c/46GbX.gif)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: WhyNot on Mar 29, 2018, 09:07:33
^^^^^^in true form^^^^^^^

lol
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 30, 2018, 00:23:52
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Mar 30, 2018, 10:24:03
A millionaire crowd funding for legal fees. That's rich...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 01, 2018, 18:13:19
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 01, 2018, 21:09:06
Some numbers …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 02, 2018, 17:28:15
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Apr 02, 2018, 18:29:04
The first is entirely expected and a sign of things to come. I thought I read an article recently that seemed to be claiming that many pig farms are now owned by Chinese companies, so I'm not sure how that all ties in.

The second item is really big if they can pull it off.  That has the potential to replace the US Dollar as the major trading currency over time.  That was likely to happen under any administration but Trump appears to be making a case that the US is no longer a reliable partner in defense or economic terms.

The oddest one recently was that he tweeted about the great trade deal he did with South Korea and how it would allow more American cars into that country and then he tweeted that he might hold that deal up as a bargaining chip.  If the deal was so good for the US and so bad for South Korea how on earth could be in the US interest to stop it? 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 02, 2018, 20:48:15
Smithfield is the largest supplier of pork in the US, and world, and is Chinese owned.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Apr 03, 2018, 00:38:33
That's the one.  Creates gazillions of tons of pig shit, but that's another story.  So how does putting a tax on that going to China help except as a political manoeuver to let Trump know that they could do something nasty if they so desired, but in this case they restrained themselves.  It gets interesting were politics and economics cross paths. I suspect that Xi knew what he was doing though.

One really interesting product is ginseng for which the market is China and Wisconsin grows most of it and they export something like 87% to China, so that tariff is likely to hurt the farmers without putting much of a dent in cross border markets. Clearly designed as a surgical strike to make a political statement without rocking the overall economic boat very much.

And if the underlying issue is IP appropriation then why not address that issue head on instead to trying an oblique, crude bullying approach.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Apr 03, 2018, 10:11:27
Messing with the petrodollar starts wars, seen enough of that the last few decades.. maybe this time china invades and occupies the u.s? We can probably take a few hundred thousand american refugees, they would blend right in with the 160 000 arabs we have taken in the last 2 years!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 03, 2018, 11:45:59
Messing with the petrodollar starts wars, seen enough of that the last few decades.. maybe this time china invades and occupies the u.s? We can probably take a few hundred thousand american refugees, they would blend right in with the 160 000 arabs we have taken in the last 2 years!
China isn't dumb enough to start a war with us.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Apr 03, 2018, 11:56:26
They have way too much invested.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Apr 03, 2018, 14:15:55
China isn't dumb enough to start a war with us.
Oh come on, it would be really cool if you started it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 03, 2018, 16:14:18
Oh come on, it would be really cool if you started it.
Nuke Beijing, and call it a war.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 03, 2018, 17:41:34
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Apr 03, 2018, 20:15:58
China isn't dumb enough to start a war with us.

Agreed.  Unlike our moron in chief, the Chinese are a little more aware of the consequences of their actions - and words.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 03, 2018, 21:11:15
I wonder what percentage of pork exported to china is “frozen” vs “chilled”.
Very careful wording there, will be interesting to see what the actual outcomes of these actions are.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 04, 2018, 08:12:30
this could get messy …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 04, 2018, 09:16:48
!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 04, 2018, 09:45:30
!

The worst part is the sheer number of folks who think this is true...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 04, 2018, 15:58:33
Serious question.

China has been stealing out tech for years and years, and selling it back to the consumers at a fraction of the cost. What do you do about that? Just let them, in fear of a "trade war?" Or, do something to combat it? How can you combat it?

The general consumer doesn't really care. They like going to Wal-Mart and saving money.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 04, 2018, 19:34:46
Serious question.

China has been stealing out tech for years and years, and selling it back to the consumers at a fraction of the cost. What do you do about that? Just let them, in fear of a "trade war?" Or, do something to combat it? How can you combat it?

The general consumer doesn't really care. They like going to Wal-Mart and saving money.

Online shopping makes this a logistics nightmare, unless you screen every shipment entering from said country. There really isn’t a way unless you have some real powerful bargaining chips to get their government to crack down on it themselves.
But that’s never going to happen.
This isn’t a new problem, there’s a reason that patents exist. Unfortunately they’re only worth what you are willing to spend to defend them.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 04, 2018, 20:09:33
Online shopping makes this a logistics nightmare, unless you screen every shipment entering from said country. There really isn’t a way unless you have some real powerful bargaining chips to get their government to crack down on it themselves.
But that’s never going to happen.
This isn’t a new problem, there’s a reason that patents exist. Unfortunately they’re only worth what you are willing to spend to defend them.
You really can't defend them, against a company operating in China, selling direct to consumer.

But, if you put a tariff on the goods, and it makes them more expensive than those bought domestically, you might see people buying those instead.


Reminds me of a story I once saw. The guy that created, and patented the selfie stick was at a trade show, as a spectator. There was a booth selling "The Original" selfie stick. The company was from China, and had made deals with so many retailers, that the guy couldn't go after them all. Essentially, he got the big boom when he released them, and a month later, China flooded the market.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 04, 2018, 20:29:23
You really can't defend them, against a company operating in China, selling direct to consumer.

But, if you put a tariff on the goods, and it makes them more expensive than those bought domestically, you might see people buying those instead.


Reminds me of a story I once saw. The guy that created, and patented the selfie stick was at a trade show, as a spectator. There was a booth selling "The Original" selfie stick. The company was from China, and had made deals with so many retailers, that the guy couldn't go after them all. Essentially, he got the big boom when he released them, and a month later, China flooded the market.

exactly, patents are useless really.

i suppose you could put tariffs on them, but how to narrow it to the ones that fit the patent infringement category?
I doubt it's logistically viable, but the Donald sure is trying i will give him that.

How has the Al/steel tariff worked out? have you seen much of a cost increase?
How has the 20% on Canadian lumber affected construction businesses i wonder?

It's all a trade off, you can't protect everyone unfortunately.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 04, 2018, 22:51:02
Last batch of 6061 I bought was from $0.35 to $1 a foot, depending on size, more than the batch before. In the normal range of fluctuation. I've only ever bought Kaiser though, made in the US. I've seen a lot of guys bitching about prices going up considerably on steel, but they're buying import. So that makes sense.

Far as wood goes, everything is higher this time of the year. Spring time rolls around, homebuilding supplies go up like clockwork.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 05, 2018, 21:13:35
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 06, 2018, 00:15:56
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: SONIC. on Apr 06, 2018, 12:22:18
Last batch of 6061 I bought was from $0.35 to $1 a foot, depending on size, more than the batch before. In the normal range of fluctuation. I've only ever bought Kaiser though, made in the US. I've seen a lot of guys bitching about prices going up considerably on steel, but they're buying import. So that makes sense.

Far as wood goes, everything is higher this time of the year. Spring time rolls around, homebuilding supplies go up like clockwork.

We buy a lot of american steel and it's gone up 20% simply because they can. It's infuriating. Everyone's expecting a price increase so why not give it to them. Steel went up across the board, so basically everyone is paying more regardless of what they buy. Backfire if you ask me. The whole point was to increase the chinese stuff's price so the american companies can compete. Instead the american companies just took it as an opportunity to price gouge and are still higher than the chinese stuff.

Not only that, but now all of us american manufacturers that use steel are getting raped, and the chinese knock off of our products are not any higher (they are using their cheap steel without tariffs after all) so if it wasn't already impossible to compete it certainly is now since the american manufacturer is being double fucked.

The way I see it these tariffs helped 130 steel mills and fucked over millions of manufacturing businesses. This is not the way to get business back in America.
I now have to seriously consider buying my products from a chinese company that literally stole our designs because I can almost no longer compete with them if I make them in the states.
They have every advantage and we as a manufacturer have none. The only saving grace is I get to put a "Made in America" sticker on the product, but realistically a minuscule percentage of people actually give a shit where it's made as long as it does what it's supposed to do. It would be cheaper and more profitable for me to import my own knockoffs than to continue to manufacture here, the only reason we still do it is because of the investment we have in machinery and the people we employ.

Way to make america great again.
 

 



Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Apr 06, 2018, 15:03:15
The way I see it these tariffs helped 130 steel mills and fucked over millions of manufacturing businesses. This is not the way to get business back in America.

This is exactly what is going on. This administration is about "optics" but they are frequently more like "optical illusions" that sound good to the people who don't think much about the consequences or know much about how economies work.

Jimmy Kimmel had a 2nd grader make a 2-minute presentation to explain trade deficits for the president. I imagine if he watched it he'd learn something. Kimmel's not on Fox, however, so the chances of that are slim.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 06, 2018, 15:59:45
Be interesting to see what it looks like in the long(er) term.

Price bump makes sense if they are gearing up to expand. If not, they're just assholes.
Title: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 06, 2018, 16:26:05
Be interesting to see what it looks like in the long(er) term.

Price bump makes sense if they are gearing up to expand. If not, they're just assholes.

A price bump is the sole purpose of a tariff.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: SONIC. on Apr 06, 2018, 16:53:58
A price bump is the sole purpose of a tariff.

No it's not.
It should bump the import prices only, not the american steel prices.


Jarrod, they should be seeing a huge bump in revenue anyway, no need to raise prices other than to be assholes.
if they are still in business at the current prices, a huge increase in volume should be welcome, they shouldn't need to raise their prices.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 06, 2018, 17:19:53
No it's not.
It should bump the import prices only, not the american steel prices.


Jarrod, they should be seeing a huge bump in revenue anyway, no need to raise prices other than to be assholes.
if they are still in business at the current prices, a huge increase in volume should be welcome, they shouldn't need to raise their prices.

Exactly!
I raises the price of imported steel.
The raised cost of import steel lowers the demand for import steel. But the steel is still needed so domestic steel sees increased demand.
With increased demand comes increased prices. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 06, 2018, 17:46:03
Exactly!
I raises the price of imported steel.
The raised cost of import steel lowers the demand for import steel. But the steel is still needed so domestic steel sees increased demand.
With increased demand comes increased prices. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.

This.

Demand is increased. Supply can't meet demand. Raise prices, make more money to build mills to meet increased demand.

If you keep the price the same, you can still only sell what you can make. So, in theory, you'd make no more money.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 09, 2018, 19:21:44
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: SONIC. on Apr 10, 2018, 11:35:36
This.

Demand is increased. Supply can't meet demand. Raise prices, make more money to build mills to meet increased demand.

If you keep the price the same, you can still only sell what you can make. So, in theory, you'd make no more money.

That's assuming that you're at capacity. The whole point is the US has a steel industry that has shut down, not what we need to build steel mills.

There are certainly pluses and minuses on both sides, it's just my opinion that the costs outweigh the gains in this scenario. I don't see steel costs ever going back down (unless the tariffs are removed) so overall yes we have helped the steel industry grow in the US, but have severely impacted (hurt) every single manufacturer in the US that uses steel. And that's a MUCH larger pot then the ones making it. Just look at the effect it's already had on the economy as a whole. We won't even get into retaliation by china.

Luckily taxes went down significantly so for now maybe it's a wash.   ???
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 10, 2018, 12:09:13
China is conceding a bit to "ease tensions."

https://www.apnews.com/45e28f10baa2460fb17a0b101c366067 (https://www.apnews.com/45e28f10baa2460fb17a0b101c366067)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Apr 10, 2018, 13:09:50
2 steel mills have shut down within the last year or so in my area..I have many friends who lost their jobs or had to relocate to keep a job.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Apr 10, 2018, 13:40:55
That's assuming that you're at capacity. The whole point is the US has a steel industry that has shut down, not what we need to build steel mills.

There are certainly pluses and minuses on both sides, it's just my opinion that the costs outweigh the gains in this scenario. I don't see steel costs ever going back down (unless the tariffs are removed) so overall yes we have helped the steel industry grow in the US, but have severely impacted (hurt) every single manufacturer in the US that uses steel. And that's a MUCH larger pot then the ones making it. Just look at the effect it's already had on the economy as a whole. We won't even get into retaliation by china.

Luckily taxes went down significantly so for now maybe it's a wash.   ???
You still have some special steel alloys not being made anywhere else though. Our steel industry has also largely vanished and what is left focuses on research and special alloys. No point competing with the chinese in standard alloys maybe.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 10, 2018, 14:32:38
You still have some special steel alloys not being made anywhere else though. Our steel industry has also largely vanished and what is left focuses on research and special alloys. No point competing with the chinese in standard alloys maybe.
The problem is their steel is junk. Metallurgy is all over the map.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 10, 2018, 16:01:19
If the tariffs stand, this is likely to be a much more common occurrence.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/09/09/chinese-aluminum-giant-is-tied-to-a-2-billion-mystery-mexican-stockpile (https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/09/09/chinese-aluminum-giant-is-tied-to-a-2-billion-mystery-mexican-stockpile)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Apr 10, 2018, 16:15:12
There are factors that tariffs won't fix that no one is talking about, too.  I worked for an aluminum smelter in Charleston, SC years ago.  It was Alcoa then, but now it's Century.  The Charleston plant runs at 50% capacity because they're operating in an uncompetitive market for electricity.  Power is too expensive for them to operated at 100%.  The tariffs will do nothing for that plant. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 10, 2018, 18:57:19
There are factors that tariffs won't fix that no one is talking about, too.  I worked for an aluminum smelter in Charleston, SC years ago.  It was Alcoa then, but now it's Century.  The Charleston plant runs at 50% capacity because they're operating in an uncompetitive market for electricity.  Power is too expensive for them to operated at 100%.  The tariffs will do nothing for that plant.
That needs to be renegotiated. The big guys here, get breaks on power, contingent on employee numbers being met.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Apr 10, 2018, 20:14:10
That needs to be renegotiated. The big guys here, get breaks on power, contingent on employee numbers being met.
When there is only one supplier of power, there's really no way to negotiate power.  You need competition to get the better rate.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 10, 2018, 20:38:35
When there is only one supplier of power, there's really no way to negotiate power.  You need competition to get the better rate.
We only have one supplier here, but Tyson, Green Bay Packaging, International Paper etc get breaks. Tyson keeps 300,000sq.ft at -18°, and another 100,000sq.ft at 40°.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Apr 11, 2018, 01:24:27
And since making aluminum takes a whole lot of power, one might expect them to be able to negotiate for good rates.  In Australia ALCOA are one of, if not the, biggest users of electricity and they did a deal with the government that basically said - you give us power cheap and we will employ lots of people and export stuff, and the gubba mint said yes.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Apr 11, 2018, 01:29:57
And since making aluminum takes a whole lot of power, one might expect them to be able to negotiate for good rates.  In Australia ALCOA are one of, if not the, biggest users of electricity and they did a deal with the government that basically said - you give us power cheap and we will employ lots of people and export stuff, and the gubba mint said yes.
The issue is that Santee Cooper is owned by the state of South Carolina.  Their claim is that if they give Century lower rates, cost of delivery will have to be subsidized by citizens.  It's 25% of their power being brought in by Santee Cooper.  There is significant issues happening in South Carolina right now, including a now defunct construction of VC Summer nuclear facility in Fairfield County that cost over $11 billion.  Essentially, the state can't afford to negotiate rates and they're losing an aluminum smelter because of it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Apr 11, 2018, 01:38:06
All good points and that is a balance that local officials have to grapple with.  It's also a good reason to start talking about the way the grid works (or doesn't work).  Why can't SC buy more power from another producer at lower cost?

The answer is probably complicated, and there are a few vastly expensive generating facilities around that are not very cost effective.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Apr 11, 2018, 02:20:54
The problem is their steel is junk. Metallurgy is all over the map.
Yea, i would not want anything more advanced than rebars from their mills..
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 11, 2018, 09:23:37
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 12, 2018, 07:11:39
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 12, 2018, 10:39:20
never a dull moment …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 13, 2018, 01:41:48
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Apr 13, 2018, 13:42:26
Do I remember reading that Trump was refused a license to operate a casino in Australia years ago because of his alleged ties to organized crime?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/16/trumps-bid-for-sydney-casino-30-years-ago-rejected-due-to-mafia-connections

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/16/trump-mafia-connections-blocked-bid-to-open-sydney-casino-30-years-ago.html
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Apr 13, 2018, 14:38:26
I'd venture to guess that 30 years ago, there weren't many high profile New Yorkers/Atlantic City-ians that didn't have mob ties.

Probably still aren't.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 03, 2018, 16:37:06
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 04, 2018, 08:00:08
Interesting analysis in the NYT re Guiliani's revelations. Are they flying by the seat of their pants? Are they announcing this to cover up a bigger bombshell? Or is this part of some intricate plan? Hard to believe it's the latter, and it looks like admissions to real crimes are forthcoming (although I've thought that for a few months -- and we plod on).
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 04, 2018, 09:52:41
Long stretch of silence there as the Koreans have been heaping praise on Captain Cheeto, talks of a Nobel Prize in the future if all this goes through, etc.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 04, 2018, 10:32:18
Long stretch of silence there as the Koreans have been heaping praise on Captain Cheeto, talks of a Nobel Prize in the future if all this goes through, etc.
Well, his self confidence is almost up there with good ol kim jong, they do love strong leaders!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 04, 2018, 10:33:04
The donald would have been thoroughly beaten if they played golf though
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on May 04, 2018, 11:40:15
Some big bomb shells these last few days. Pure craziness. Imagine how boring the next president is going to be...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 06, 2018, 03:46:38
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 06, 2018, 07:28:46
Wonder if we could actually see Kerry arrested for treason?

Seems he's actively working against the administration with the Iranians on his own time.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 06, 2018, 19:10:34
 At a 2016 campaign rally, Trump said “The mob takes the fifth amendment, If you’re innocent, why are you taking the fifth amendment?”
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Scooter trash on May 07, 2018, 22:43:21
https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/politics/tom-cotton-iran-letter-logan-act/index.html Kerry is within his rights to keep in contact with regarding national security. Trump is getting a lot of pressure from Israel to tear up the deal, removing a block to a war, that will give them more territory.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 08, 2018, 06:33:41
What rights? He is no longer Sec of State, no longer holds any office, and is not registered as a agent of the state.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on May 08, 2018, 08:00:39
It's common practice for former Sec of State to continue communications with counterparts from other countries. Until Trump pulls us out, the Iran deal is current US policy, so Kerry is not out of line to lobby Congress or meet with European officials on it's behalf.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 08, 2018, 08:30:46
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 08, 2018, 09:23:47
It's common practice for former Sec of State to continue communications with counterparts from other countries. Until Trump pulls us out, the Iran deal is current US policy, so Kerry is not out of line to lobby Congress or meet with European officials on it's behalf.
Wouldn't that be akin to colluding with foreign governments?

He has no role in the current administrations government, and is acting counter to what they are doing. His spokesperson has said he is in violation of the Logan Act, but it doesn't matter, because they don't enforce that law.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on May 08, 2018, 09:33:07
Wouldn't that be akin to colluding with foreign governments?

He has no role in the current administrations government, and is acting counter to what they are doing. His spokesperson has said he is in violation of the Logan Act, but it doesn't matter, because they don't enforce that law.

If they actually pull us out of the nuclear deal, then it would be in violation of the Logan Act to continue to promote the deal or conditions counter to the administration.  But, we are currently a signatory of the deal and we currently follow the guidelines of the deal.  So Kerry is promoting current US policy.  Just because Trump spouts it as a bad deal doesn't mean we don't actually agree with conditions laid out.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 08, 2018, 15:57:31
Just about the dumbest move ever!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 08, 2018, 18:42:59
One unilaterally put us in it. Another can just as easily get us out of it, apparently.


The JCPOA didn't address Iran's ballistic missile program. It didn't stop Iran's other misbehavior in the Middle East. Key provisions of the agreement expire after 10 to 15 years. And it rewarded Iran by unfreezing its assets frozen by years of U.S. sanctions.

It really was a bad deal from the start, though. Iran got their cake, and got to eat it too.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 08, 2018, 19:56:21
Just curious, Stroker, is it a bad move solely because Trump made it?

It was a shit deal. It should have never been made to begin with.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 08, 2018, 20:09:37
It was flawed, but better than nothing -- not simply my opinion, but I believe the opinion of most policymakers and experts as well. They certainly now have their cake and can eat it-- the returned assets were part of the agreement, and now they have their assets and no reason to follow the agreement. Trump says he will bring them to the table for a better deal, but let's be honest -- Trump's deal making "ability" is vastly overrated, especially by Trump himself. That being said, the Rial is down 35% or so, so Iran is in a bit of a pinch. Working against Iran coming back to the table is the (justified) portrayal of Trump as a raging Islamophobe. A deal will not play well to a domestic Iranian audience, and the mullahs can stoke nationalism easily in this case to bolster their position.

Interesting report the other day of someone finding the mummy of the Shah, by the way.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 08, 2018, 21:48:50
Just curious, Stroker, is it a bad move solely because Trump made it?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 08, 2018, 22:04:00
They don't necessarily have their cake, and are eating it to. We just instituted even worse sanctions on them than they had prior. We can absolutely hamstring them, and Europe will follow suit with us. They always do.

Like anything else, you cut the revenue off, they'll fall in line.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 08, 2018, 22:06:39
On another note, I've seen people talking about steel prices. Last two loads of 6061 I have gotten, have been cheaper on all but one size, and looking back at receipts going back to last year, it's held steady at $3.11 a foot since at least February.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 08, 2018, 22:28:06
Europe will follow suit with us. They always do.

Maybe, maybe not.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on May 08, 2018, 23:17:00
One unilaterally put us in it. Another can just as easily get us out of it, apparently.


The JCPOA didn't address Iran's ballistic missile program. It didn't stop Iran's other misbehavior in the Middle East. Key provisions of the agreement expire after 10 to 15 years. And it rewarded Iran by unfreezing its assets frozen by years of U.S. sanctions.

It really was a bad deal from the start, though. Iran got their cake, and got to eat it too.


Not exactly.  The US was only one party to that deal.  Other countries were also involved in making the deal including Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China and they are the permanent members of the UN Security Council.  It was a coordinated effort to get a deal done.  Like most deals, this one is not perfect and the gaps were well understood by all signatories to the agreement.

It was never intended to include some of the aspects that Trump now wants to include.

Bottom line is that one of two things is likely to happen. Either the other parties to the agreement decide to stay in it, then the US will be faced with massive lost sales of Boeing aircraft AND it will be in a position where it tries to strongarm the other 5 parties to tow the line.

And if they do, Iran can validly and legally restart its Nuclear weapons program. 

That in turn will prompt Israel to bomb Iranian facilities again and after that it's anyone's guess as to what would happen next. It won't be good for anyone though. 

And what does the US get out of all of this?  Absolutely nothing.  Potentially increased sales of arms to countries fighting Israel - that won't be a nice place to be.

Why did Trump pull this stunt?  Because it's a deal he didn't make so he has to tear it up with no plan to replace it except his promise that he alone can do the best deals in the world.  That's what it comes down to.

I heard today that Bolton and some others believe that the Iranian people will rise up and take over the government like they did in Iraq and Libya and we know how badly those two places turned out.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 08, 2018, 23:30:54
Since the deal has been in place, Iran has developed new ballistic missiles capable of carrying multiple warheads. We gave them money to put towards doing so. We had to give them 24 days notice prior to inspection, because, you know an inspection 24 days after telling them there's an inspection is totally going to be legit.

It was a bad deal. I don't know why people are surprised. This was one of his main campaign promises. It's like people get pissed off when they don't keep their campaign promises, and are pissed off when they do too.

Europe will fall in line. They always do. Russia, probably not. China, 50/50. They need us more than we need them.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on May 09, 2018, 09:37:20
It is generally accepted that there was room to improve the deal, but he who shall not be named decided to tear it up and replace it with what?  Nothing.  He cannot seriously believe that he alone can do a better deal by the time that sanctions start to come on line, so what is his game plan?  Act like a bully and hope that everyone else backs down?  This what America has come down to.  That is not leadership, but why would anyone be surprised.  He's never been a leader or a good manager and we expected him to change?  Silly us.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 09, 2018, 09:41:30
They've got six months until the sanctions kick in, I believe.

I have a feeling a new deal will be in place before we put the screws on their revenue stream.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 09, 2018, 11:15:20
It's possible that Iran will come out ahead either way. Aside from getting they money held by the US, they had shut down 2/3 of their centrifuges and given up 95% of their uranium. Inspectors had extra powers to monitor their nuclear facilities. Assumptions that the US will pull out and get the Iranians to agree to a tightening of the deal aren't shared by a lot of experts. If things go south, Iran will simply fire up the reactors again, destabilizing the region, putting Israel on edge, and crreating more chaos.

Assuming that Europe will fall lockstep with the US is a bit of a leap -- Trump has alienated most European leaders. In a speech last year Merkel argued that it was time for Europe to be prepared to go it alone because they expected shit like this. Trump has no idea what he is doing -- there's no way around that -- and has no soild plan put in place to replace it. Flying by the seat of your pants while conduction international relations usually doesn't work, unless you are a rogue state like N Korea and unpredictability is used as a strategy.

The US is engaging in talks with North Korea. Pulling out of this agreement now signals that the US does not feel the need to maintain its international agreements, removing motivation for N Korea to create one.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 09, 2018, 11:16:07
Interesting, to me, anyhow.

Iran has said they now have an increased capacity to enrich uranium than they had before the agreement went in to effect, along with new centrifuges to do it with.

How does that even happen under the agreement?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.radiofarda.com/amp/29082529.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.radiofarda.com/amp/29082529.html)

So, as we sit, they have developed new long and mid range ballistic missiles, capable of carrying multiple warheads, and increased their capacity for uranium enrichment under the deal, in less than three years.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 09, 2018, 11:39:01
Not so sure Radio Farda is particularly reliable, and it's in Kamalvandi's interest to exagerate Iran's potential capabilities. I'll wait and see if this gets picked up and reported elsewhere.

One other easy way to think about this: we are now punishing Iran for maintaining its end of the bargain.

And another brief note on European support: European companies rushed in after the agreement. Perhaps a little hasty, perhaps a little foolish, and with the weakening rial it would likely be tough going. But... these companies have lobbying power in their respective European capitals...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 09, 2018, 12:26:16
I try to read as little news as possible from here.

One praises all, the others bash all. Zero objectivity.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 09, 2018, 13:21:04
There are certainly better places for news elsewhere, but it's a bit cynical to lump all US media together as though they're all terrible. You might be surprised to find that the NYT published a column praising getting out of the Iran deal as well as one criticicizing the decision. Similar to what you wrote, I tend to find that people in the US who condemn the media are also the first to admit they don't read them.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 09, 2018, 13:51:32
I read them. Just not as often as international sources. Every news source puts a slant on everything to fit their demo. That's just the way it is. International sources have less motivation to do so.

On another note. The three Americans that were being held in NK are on a plane home right now!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 09, 2018, 14:36:15
That is some good news!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 11, 2018, 18:08:22
A quick recap of a few events since Trump announced the US will pull out of the Iran deal...

Iran and Israel have been shooting missiles at each other via Syria.

Iran has vowed to fire up its reactors again.

Iranian leaders have ramped up the anti-American rhetoric, although it appears many Iranians are shrugging their shoulders.

Europe has distanced itself further from the US.

Europe is scrambling trying to save the agreement.

The United States has come up with no viable "plan b" other than slapping sanctions on Iran, even though Iran had abided by the agreement and it was the US that pulled out.

-- but Korea!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 12, 2018, 18:54:37
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 14, 2018, 19:18:30
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 17, 2018, 21:56:38
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 17, 2018, 22:00:30
What an idiot. Seriously. Complete idiot.

Ghadafi was also subjected to sexual torture -- a huge knife up his ass, it's on video -- before they dispatched him. More than a few despots meet that fate in that part of the world. That might get Kim Jong Un thinking.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 23, 2018, 08:43:15
I dont know if the u.s model is that wonderful either.. subject to us or get a bayonet up the ass. Its doubly questionable as gadaffis economy was the only functioning economy in africa - and the end result was even worse. Libya is now pumping african refugees into europe, and slave trade is blooming. Seriously, Fuck your foreign policy. Great thing if you think you can get north korea to submit by childish threats, but we aint taking refugees from your conflicts anymore.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 23, 2018, 10:35:50
I know you have a "thing" about refugees and how they're "despoiling" Europe, and I certainly don't agree with much of US foreign policy when it comes to conflict resolution (and this president clearly has no idea what he is doing), but not all refugee problems are caused by the US and it appears that European countries will still continue to allow humanitarian refugee flows despite what you decree.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 23, 2018, 10:51:21
I know you have a "thing" about refugees and how they're "despoiling" Europe, and I certainly don't agree with much of US foreign policy when it comes to conflict resolution (and this president clearly has no idea what he is doing), but not all refugee problems are caused by the US and it appears that European countries will still continue to allow humanitarian refugee flows despite what you decree.
Theres a large movement brewing against it and worst case scenario it will get bloody. And its 100% the u.s fault. No other way it could be seen really. You start the shit, we get floods of violent jihadis as a result. Sorry, thats just how it is.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 23, 2018, 10:59:47
Besides, why should we accept thousands of women being raped by islamic refugees annually, just so you could continue your middle eastern power games? Fuck that. I kinda hope for a extreme right wing fascist regime in sweden the next 4 years, deportation en masse is the only solution to the problems we face here right now.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 23, 2018, 11:26:02
Uh, yeah, last time European countries were dominated by far right fascist governments things worked out pretty well.

Again, I know there is a sort of "purity" issue you're dancing around, especially with rhetoric about European women being raped by the thousands by Islamic refugees (interested in a source for that, by the way, as it appears that the claim is false).

Here's what some others have said: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

"Just as there’s no evidence supporting the claim that newly-arrived refugees have caused an increase in sexual crimes in Sweden, there’s also no proof that the city of Malmö is a “rape capital” of Europe (or the world) – it doesn’t even lead the country in reported rapes."

Small rises in claims of rape in Sweden were also attributed to a broadening of the definition of rape recently.

Or this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-part-ii-refugee-men-overrepresented-swedish-crime/

"However, most violence in Sweden can’t be linked to asylum seekers. Instead, economic stagnation in immigrant communities that formed decades ago has resulted in intergenerational poverty, which has in turn fueled the proliferation of street gangs."

"Joakim Palmkvist, a long-time crime reporter for the Swedish newspaper Sydsvenskan, which is based in Malmö, explained that there is no massive new crime wave being perpetrated by newly-arrived refugees in Sweden’s suburbs — instead, crime today is an iteration of gang violence that has been going on in the country since the 1990s, starting with American exports such as the motorcycle gangs Hell’s Angels and Bandidos."

"The proportion of people who say they have been victim of any crime during the year have declined over the past decade, from 26 percent in 2005 to 24 percent in 2015. Primarily, the proportion of households who are victims of property crimes decreased, from 13 percent in 2006 to 10 percent 2015."

People are, of course, free to believe whatever they want, and generally seek out information that confirms their biases. If you want to believe what Donald Trump and Nigel Farange and the far right believe about refugees and crime and threats to European "purity" you are free to believe that. But it simply doesn't make it true. And if you want to support racist and fear mongering far right fascists, have at it. Thankfully most people don't feel the same way.
 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 23, 2018, 21:47:13
Out of curiosity, why do you assume he is dancing around a "purity" issue?

Germany is the country in the EU that has taken in the most, and they've found them responsible for the uptick in violent crime. Uptick in truck attacks as well. The News Years Eve attacks were widely reported a couple years ago. The BBC has a good write up on the study that has been done on it over the last few years since Merkle decided to buck EU policy and open the doors to over 1M of them.

Though, the crimes are less likely to be carried out by Middle Easterners, as they seem to not to want to jeopardize their chance of staying. It's people who have fled Northern Africa that are committing them, mostly.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 24, 2018, 02:31:08
Out of curiosity, why do you assume he is dancing around a "purity" issue?

Germany is the country in the EU that has taken in the most, and they've found them responsible for the uptick in violent crime. Uptick in truck attacks as well. The News Years Eve attacks were widely reported a couple years ago. The BBC has a good write up on the study that has been done on it over the last few years since Merkle decided to buck EU policy and open the doors to over 1M of them.

Though, the crimes are less likely to be carried out by Middle Easterners, as they seem to not to want to jeopardize their chance of staying. It's people who have fled Northern Africa that are committing them, mostly.
He's just an idiot pc monger. No point bothering. Recent reports in Swedish mainstream media says immigrants are responsible for 95.6% of violent rapes. We have all kinds of islamic terrorism in Sweden now, people are getting murdered by migrants in troubling numbers to say the least. There is going to be a backlash.
Our establishment and police force are now telling us to get used to bombings, mass killings and group rapes. All in the name of cultural pluralism. Seriously, fuck that and fuck you pc idiots.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 24, 2018, 02:52:26
Is civilised discourse really so difficult?

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 24, 2018, 04:53:14
Is civilised discourse really so difficult?

Crazy
I'm way past civilised discourse and quite pissed off at those assholes telling us to enjoy the situation and welcome the murdering lot from countries bombed by the u.s, thank you very much.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sonreir on May 24, 2018, 12:14:40
I'm way past civilised discourse and quite pissed off at those assholes telling us to enjoy the situation and welcome the murdering lot from countries bombed by the u.s, thank you very much.

Then maybe it might be best to take a breath and step away from the keyboard for a while. This can be a touchy subject, but if the name calling continues then there will be consequences for those involved.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 24, 2018, 12:24:06
@Data: Don't let facts get in the way of your feelings, no matter where those feelings originate, I guess. If the police in Sweden are reporting downticks in crime but you somehow feel "immigrants" or "refugees" or "muslims" are raping "your women" and committing more crime, have at it. If you want to argue that what Europen needs is far right fascist governments, by all means -- have at it. If you then want to recoil and get offended and call me an "idiot pc monger" that's fine too. But I imagine anyone looking at this conversation would make some pretty plausible assumptions about your motivation.

As for the murdering migrants, the bombings, the "group rapes," the mass killings -- we can probably both agree that in the real world these things don't exist, right? I imagine you can find some information about incidents involving migrants -- they're people, a certain proportion of them will commit crimes as will any proportion of any people. But I, for some reason, haven't heard the "group rapes" news, or news about the bombings, etc.

Out of curiosity, why do you assume he is dancing around a "purity" issue?

Germany is the country in the EU that has taken in the most, and they've found them responsible for the uptick in violent crime. Uptick in truck attacks as well. The News Years Eve attacks were widely reported a couple years ago. The BBC has a good write up on the study that has been done on it over the last few years since Merkle decided to buck EU policy and open the doors to over 1M of them.

Though, the crimes are less likely to be carried out by Middle Easterners, as they seem to not to want to jeopardize their chance of staying. It's people who have fled Northern Africa that are committing them, mostly.

He's not really dancing around the purity issue, he's plunging right into it: fears of immigrant rapists, praise of far right fascists. The notion that "others" are defiling "our women" has a long history.

And yes, obviously, the German attacks were abhorrent. But this is what people tend to do: latch on to an event and then spread or believe rumors that make it sound as though it's worse than it is, as it is consistent with their preexisting biases. Here is a decent piece on Germany, rumors, and the "threat:"

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/refugees-crime-rumors/480171/

"Recent numbers from Germany’s Federal Criminal Police Agency (BKA) suggest that the influx of refugees into the country this fall had a low impact on crime numbers relative to the natural uptick that would happen with any population increase: Although the number of refugees in the country increased by 440 percent between 2014 and 2015, the number of crimes committed by refugees only increased by 79 percent. (The number of crimes against refugees increased as well.)"

Anti-immigrant rhetoric, frequently rumors that are not based in fact, propel people to commit individual acts of violence against immigrants. You've seen that there in the US as well -- that idiot in the pizza restaurant, for example.

Is civilised discourse really so difficult?

Crazy

No it's not. Well for some it is, I guess.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 24, 2018, 17:21:31
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 24, 2018, 17:28:33
Kim will be dead inside a year.

The days of throwing threats around, and having money thrown his way to shut him up have passed.

He was afraid to go to the summit because he thought there may be a coup in his absence. He's in a precarious situation. He's flat broke, and the way he typically gets money to give to those that protect him, has stopped working. I expect an increase in him killing those around him, due to the paranoia that they want to kill him,  and with that, those around him are going to kill him.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on May 24, 2018, 18:05:49
Or alternatively, Trump got infatuated with the idea of a Nobel peace prize and forgot that doing a deal with the DPRK aka NK would be very difficult and likely too leave him looking silly, so he found an excuse to pull the plug. 

Like him or loathe him, it would have been good if there had been meaningful discussions between the US and NK.  What happens next might be interesting to watch as long as people keep the safety ON.  China has been moving closer to NK and so has the south. It is not beyond possibility that China might be able to broker a peace between the North and South, leaving the US marginalized.

Not having crystal balls, I have no idea what that might look like but I suspect that if his Excellence the supreme US leader does anything else silly with Chinese trade, they might take that as an opportunity to expand their political influence in the region to match their expanding military and economic presence.

I'm not looking forward to having to pay more for so many parts that come from China now, but some stuff is just ridiculously cheap and has to be heavily subsidized if only on postage.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 24, 2018, 18:19:49
@Data: Don't let facts get in the way of your feelings, no matter where those feelings originate, I guess. If the police in Sweden are reporting downticks in crime but you somehow feel "immigrants" or "refugees" or "muslims" are raping "your women" and committing more crime, have at it. If you want to argue that what Europen needs is far right fascist governments, by all means -- have at it. If you then want to recoil and get offended and call me an "idiot pc monger" that's fine too. But I imagine anyone looking at this conversation would make some pretty plausible assumptions about your motivation.

As for the murdering migrants, the bombings, the "group rapes," the mass killings -- we can probably both agree that in the real world these things don't exist, right? I imagine you can find some information about incidents involving migrants -- they're people, a certain proportion of them will commit crimes as will any proportion of any people. But I, for some reason, haven't heard the "group rapes" news, or news about the bombings, etc.

He's not really dancing around the purity issue, he's plunging right into it: fears of immigrant rapists, praise of far right fascists. The notion that "others" are defiling "our women" has a long history.

And yes, obviously, the German attacks were abhorrent. But this is what people tend to do: latch on to an event and then spread or believe rumors that make it sound as though it's worse than it is, as it is consistent with their preexisting biases. Here is a decent piece on Germany, rumors, and the "threat:"

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/refugees-crime-rumors/480171/

"Recent numbers from Germany’s Federal Criminal Police Agency (BKA) suggest that the influx of refugees into the country this fall had a low impact on crime numbers relative to the natural uptick that would happen with any population increase: Although the number of refugees in the country increased by 440 percent between 2014 and 2015, the number of crimes committed by refugees only increased by 79 percent. (The number of crimes against refugees increased as well.)"

Anti-immigrant rhetoric, frequently rumors that are not based in fact, propel people to commit individual acts of violence against immigrants. You've seen that there in the US as well -- that idiot in the pizza restaurant, for example.

No it's not. Well for some it is, I guess.
You dont know shit about whats happening here so, kindly zip it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 24, 2018, 18:20:31
The government does subsidize a ton of postage. How can you possibly order something for $1 on eBay, and have it shipped free?

China just loosened tariffs on American vehicle imports.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 24, 2018, 18:26:21
Although I hoped for the best, Trump completely showed his lack of experience and judgment in this from the start -- from giving away concessions (even the fact of being willing to meet Kim should have come with concessions from North Korea) with nothing in return, such as the Jerusalem move, to the alternating threat-compliment cycle. Trump's letter -- did you read it? he man's mental state should continue to be questioned. The NYT today has an interesting but somewhat depressing simulation of what would happen if this escalates.

But he should get a Nobel Prize!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 24, 2018, 18:33:12
You dont know shit about whats happening here so, kindly zip it.

Sorry buddy, but if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and swims like a duck...

This is a forum, where people communicate. You think I don't know what I am talking about because I don't live in Sweden, and therefore I shouldn't be able to say anything? Hmm. I've offered some evidence to show that your perceptions about immigrant crime are incorrect and exagerated. I can undestand why you don't like this -- it doesn't square with your gut feelings. Things like the "95.6% of rapes are committed by Muslim immigrants" are spread by right wing websites such savemysweden and others, but they are rumors that are not based in fact. If you want to spread information that is not true and in fact based on Islamophobia and xenophobia, perhaps you should be ready for people to call you out. Instead of telling people to shut up, perhaps you should bolster your argument with factual evidence.

Or stick to talking about motorcycles, or the fiasco that is the Trump administration -- which is what this thread is supposed to be about.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 25, 2018, 03:08:08
Sorry buddy, but if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and swims like a duck...

This is a forum, where people communicate. You think I don't know what I am talking about because I don't live in Sweden, and therefore I shouldn't be able to say anything? Hmm. I've offered some evidence to show that your perceptions about immigrant crime are incorrect and exagerated. I can undestand why you don't like this -- it doesn't square with your gut feelings. Things like the "95.6% of rapes are committed by Muslim immigrants" are spread by right wing websites such savemysweden and others, but they are rumors that are not based in fact. If you want to spread information that is not true and in fact based on Islamophobia and xenophobia, perhaps you should be ready for people to call you out. Instead of telling people to shut up, perhaps you should bolster your argument with factual evidence.

Or stick to talking about motorcycles, or the fiasco that is the Trump administration -- which is what this thread is supposed to be about.
You dont have much between your ears do you? Let me fill you in to what you dont know. Politicians and mainstream media have been keeping the lid on this for years now, but the dam is starting to burst, mainstream bs media are now admitting that all the right wing have been claiming is true. Court files are public acts. Everyone can see that rape is committed almost exclusively by first generation migrants, predominantly Muslim.
The security police finally admitted last year that islamic terrorism is the nr1 threat to our state.
Crminologists have been saying for years that europes highest migration numbers per capita poses no problem. Now they say "the situation is very serious"
We had one truck rampage last year, and last month more kazakstani terrorists were arrested. There is widespread rioting and car burnings in the suburbs. The police wont even enter certain areas, where sharia law has taken over. I've lived there, its true.
We have over 1000 isis fighters being sheltered here, and roughly 50 000 islamic extremists working to overthrow democracy and spread terror. I dont care for one second what you have to say, because YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 25, 2018, 06:51:26
We have over 1000 isis fighters being sheltered here, and roughly 50 000 islamic extremists working to overthrow democracy and spread terror.

Paranoid rant.

(Fact free)

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 25, 2018, 08:31:53
Paranoid rant.

(Fact free)

Crazy
These figures come from säpo, our national security police.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 25, 2018, 12:29:00
The säpo chief also stated that he thinks only a few have the ability or intention to carry out an attack in Sweden. Sweden actually has a program for rehabilitating former fighters, which is -- dare I say it -- progressive. Your figure of 50,000 Muslim extremists in Sweden is a made-up fiction.

Are you worried about the Nordic Resistence Movement? They're carrying out terrorist attacks in Sweden as well. I'm sure you probably know this, but they are a right wing fascist group (and above ground legal political party) that has committed bombings and assaults. Curious how you feel about them and their tactics. They're anti-semitic as well as being anti-immigrant.

It's clear you search for information that confirms your biases -- you can't back up anything you've said, likely because the information comes from dubious right wing sources (still waiting on the info for the 95.6% comment). Rather, you simply double down on calling me an idiot, and tell me to shut up.

You are free, of course, to live your life in fear and harbor racist, xenophobic, or Islamophobic sentiment and pine for fascism. It's a bit sad, really, but nevermind. Most of us realize that the world you imagine, full of threats and bombings and violence from "immigrants" doesn't really exist, except in the minds of conspiratorial thinkers and fear mongers. The US is dealing with the same problem, seemingly forgetting that 75 years ago it was engaged in a war to stamp out fascism.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 26, 2018, 06:51:32
The säpo chief also stated that he thinks only a few have the ability or intention to carry out an attack in Sweden. Sweden actually has a program for rehabilitating former fighters, which is -- dare I say it -- progressive. Your figure of 50,000 Muslim extremists in Sweden is a made-up fiction.

Are you worried about the Nordic Resistence Movement? They're carrying out terrorist attacks in Sweden as well. I'm sure you probably know this, but they are a right wing fascist group (and above ground legal political party) that has committed bombings and assaults. Curious how you feel about them and their tactics. They're anti-semitic as well as being anti-immigrant.

It's clear you search for information that confirms your biases -- you can't back up anything you've said, likely because the information comes from dubious right wing sources (still waiting on the info for the 95.6% comment). Rather, you simply double down on calling me an idiot, and tell me to shut up.

You are free, of course, to live your life in fear and harbor racist, xenophobic, or Islamophobic sentiment and pine for fascism. It's a bit sad, really, but nevermind. Most of us realize that the world you imagine, full of threats and bombings and violence from "immigrants" doesn't really exist, except in the minds of conspiratorial thinkers and fear mongers. The US is dealing with the same problem, seemingly forgetting that 75 years ago it was engaged in a war to stamp out fascism.
The nazis are exactly the same kind as the islamist mob in my view, i dont want any of it here. But if they choose to slaughter each other to the last man they have done the rest of us a great service. The 95.6% figure is from official court records and has been reported in the mainstream as well lately. Im just sick of you pc people continuing to advocate the destruction of a country when all is obviously going to shit. I would prefer we took denmarks line against the extremists, incarcerate and prosecute when they return and deport if possible. Our tax money should NOT be wasted on rehabilitating jihadi murderers that have zero business being here in the first place. And 50 000 extreme islamist is counted low. We have a muslim population of over 500 000 and growing by the day, 10% of which harbor anti democratic extremist views and want sharia law in sweden.
No sane person can advocate this development.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 26, 2018, 06:53:41
And calling people racist or xenophobe does not work anymore so just give it up. The murder rate of jews in  europe is back to 1930's levels by the way, thanks to islam. Do you hate jews so much that you want them murdered because of your utopian ideals?
Besides, i have syrian arab friends who are telling me we have to fight extreme islam from spreading in sweden in every way we can, that we are crazy for allowing this to happen. And i would much rather take their words before yours. Yours mean nothing and know nothing of the real world.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 26, 2018, 07:10:58
Numbers plucked from the air and assertions presented as facts.

The assumption seems to be that none of this is Sweden's business, but their role as as an arms supplier surely implies that they are not without complicity.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 26, 2018, 08:39:59
Numbers plucked from the air and assertions presented as facts.

The assumption seems to be that none of this is Sweden's business, but their role as as an arms supplier surely implies that they are not without complicity.

Crazy
That arms dealer argument is pure and utter bullshit. We dont force them to pull the trigger, and officially we do not deliver to rogue nations or nations in conflict. The corruption of the arms industry is another subject and a great shame for this country.
But arms trade does not mean we propagate conflicts(like the u.s military industrial) and does not mean we are responsible for the results. Even if we were, a better solution would be to force the arms industry itself to fund refugee camps in the first safe country near the conflict areas. That way millions more could be helped. But you people cannot realize this, and your defense of islam, which is putrid shit and not religion to begin with, is sickening.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 26, 2018, 09:24:58
Not propagating, but only supplying the tools: not a very convincing defense.

The statement about Islam could only come from ignorance, at best.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 26, 2018, 12:35:06
Besides, i have syrian arab friends who are telling me we have to fight extreme islam from spreading in sweden in every way we can, that we are crazy for allowing this to happen.
You know this is the equivalent of the "I have a black friend who agrees with me on this so I can't be racist" argument in the US?

I kinda hope for a extreme right wing fascist regime in sweden the next 4 years

But you people cannot realize this, and your defense of islam, which is putrid shit and not religion to begin with, is sickening.

And calling people racist or xenophobe does not work anymore so just give it up.

I'll just leave these here. Wish you the best of luck in your online ranting against "the other' and your life of irrational fear. They're probably monitoring you and coming for you next for your bold, "anti-pc" statements.

As an aside, do you find it at least somewhat ironic that you told someone who doesn't live in Sweden not to comment on Swedish politics, and you're on a thread discussing American politics?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 26, 2018, 17:04:12
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 26, 2018, 17:37:53
Kim needs this in a bad way.

In a I don't want to get Julius Caesar'd way.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 27, 2018, 02:37:15
Kim will be dead inside a year.

The days of throwing threats around, and having money thrown his way to shut him up have passed.

He was afraid to go to the summit because he thought there may be a coup in his absence. He's in a precarious situation. He's flat broke, and the way he typically gets money to give to those that protect him, has stopped working. I expect an increase in him killing those around him, due to the paranoia that they want to kill him,  and with that, those around him are going to kill him.

Kim needs this in a bad way.

In a I don't want to get Julius Caesar'd way.

Where is this information coming from?

I haven't seen anything about it in any of the sources I see.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 27, 2018, 06:47:06
You know this is the equivalent of the "I have a black friend who agrees with me on this so I can't be racist" argument in the US?

I'll just leave these here. Wish you the best of luck in your online ranting against "the other' and your life of irrational fear. They're probably monitoring you and coming for you next for your bold, "anti-pc" statements.

As an aside, do you find it at least somewhat ironic that you told someone who doesn't live in Sweden not to comment on Swedish politics, and you're on a thread discussing American politics?

So, if i listen to secular arabs saying that we cannot allow islam to spread i europe, because they have seen the consequences first hand, you are still right? Damn.. so clever.
Who would you say are coming for me? So you are against freedom of speech, thats just like your type.
And since you cant get anything in your thick skull - american politics affects everyday life here, so we can have an opinion on it. You wouldnt know the difference between a culturally homogenous sweden or the car burning shithole this has become, because of people like you, and it would not affect you, so you dont get to have a say in this.

Besides, even the established parties here realize they have lost this battle.
Everyone pretty much agrees mass migration to a small country does not work.
Every party says honor killings and sexual mutilation cannot continue, that clan rule and sharia law must be countered.
 The people will have their say in september.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 27, 2018, 07:45:04
So you're against the Americans, you're against muslims (all 1.7 billion?)

Who are you in favour of, apart from the phobic Right?

If the centrists don't win the next election the only losers will be the Swedes.

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 27, 2018, 13:22:56
Where is this information coming from?

I haven't seen anything about it in any of the sources I see.

Crazy

Lot of articles floating around.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-worried-about-military-coup-singapore-summit-trump-2018-5 (http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-worried-about-military-coup-singapore-summit-trump-2018-5)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on May 27, 2018, 13:55:11
Kim blew his load trying to shoot missiles over Japan and scare the world. The money train has derailed. You don't really think he just all of a sudden wants to be a good guy, and give up the nuclear weapons, out of the blue, he has almost literally poured every penny into over the last decade, do you?

He's broke. Dictators don't last long when they go broke.

If this summit fails, he's as good as gone. If it succeeds, he can go back with the promise of loosened sanctions, possibly humanitarian aid. He'll have less power, but that's better than being dead.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 27, 2018, 17:59:14
The people will have their say in september.

But what are they going to do for the owls?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/stealing-owls/559136/

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 28, 2018, 14:55:44
So you're against the Americans, you're against muslims (all 1.7 billion?)

Who are you in favour of, apart from the phobic Right?

If the centrists don't win the next election the only losers will be the Swedes.

Crazy
I'm a farmer so i vote center by default, besides their party leader is the cutest of the bunch.
But if you would be reading swedish newspapers you would know that noone is pleased with the development, and the sweden democrats will almost certainly have majority in the election.
And im fine with that as the center parties are a toothless bunch. At least they are vocal against islamization and pro integration.
And i'm not against americans Or even muslims, its just that you guys have insane foreign policys, meddle too much where you have no business, and are way too prone to murder, displace people and cause chaos to advance your insane agendas. And the muslims can be muslim all they want, as long as they stay where they are and dont come here making demands.
If they would have behaved like human beings and not animals while living here we would have no problems with them.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 28, 2018, 15:04:11
But what are they going to do for the owls?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/stealing-owls/559136/

Crazy
Quoted:
"Thieves may be emboldened by the fact that police are already stretched thin, thanks to surging burglaries and gang violence in Swedish cities."

Still cant see we have very serious problems here?
Get your blinds off man.
Several thousand police officers have already quit their jobs, they cant handle dealing with all the murders and rapes as it is, with the judicial system siding with the criminals, their wages are shit and they risk being killed by gangs wielding military arms. I would not put up with it, i fully understand them quitting.
If it gets bad enough martial law will be employed, there might be a coup or a civil war. Just because "tolerant" people like you have let this go on for too long.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on May 28, 2018, 16:26:20
If they would have behaved like human beings and not animals while living here we would have no problems with them.

Just gonna leave this here.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on May 28, 2018, 16:45:56
Just gonna leave this here.
Sure, you can quote me on that. No problem. We can agree to heartily disagree on that matter. And i pray that you dont find yourself living in any of the shithole burbs created here in the past decades.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 30, 2018, 17:45:14
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on May 30, 2018, 21:32:48
What do you call a group of immigrants in Sweden?
























Artificial Swedeners

...and i’ll show myself the door
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on May 30, 2018, 23:14:33
...and i’ll show myself the door

I should hope so!

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Brodie on May 31, 2018, 06:45:09
Lol
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: WhyNot on May 31, 2018, 07:35:38
ha ha....!!!!!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 03, 2018, 07:54:45
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 03, 2018, 12:03:14
Well, when the president does it, that means it's not illegal.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Jun 03, 2018, 12:45:28
Just out of curiosity what happens if the president is convicted of a serious crime?
Does the conviction automatically terminate his presidency?
Can he still pardon himself after being convicted?
What a world
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 03, 2018, 12:47:31
Is obstruction a felony? Technically, a misdemeanor doesn't make you ineligible to hold office.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 03, 2018, 13:36:29
Here is a good link that describes potential outcomes of the investigation, including if Mueller finds that Trump is guilty of a crime:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/23/us/politics/trump-mueller-russia.html
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 05, 2018, 01:50:04
When you're in a hole it's a good idea to stop digging!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 07, 2018, 17:42:17
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 07, 2018, 22:02:09
.

"We'll just wing it, what could possibly go wrong?"

Trump's meeting with Kim Yong-chol was a coup for North Korea. He's a high level N Korean politician, but not at the top (vice-chair of the Central Committee of the Worker's Party). An American president just recognized and met with someone of much lower status. He should have met with someone like Paul Ryan or Bolton. Trump has no idea what he is doing.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teledan on Jun 08, 2018, 09:25:20
Trump has no idea what he is doing.

Amen brother
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 08, 2018, 11:18:41
Obama, Bush Jr. or Clinton could have advised him on that.

Oh wait. They couldn't get N. Korea to do anything other than make threats, and have the world throw money at them to shut them up.

Kim's flat broke. They don't have the money to build missiles. They didn't just decide they want to be good guys. Soon as Trump called the meeting off, they sent one of their top guys over to beg to get it back on track.

Interested in seeing the outcome of the first meeting next week. Sounds like it could be the official end of the Korean War. 



Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 08, 2018, 11:32:36
Obama, Bush Jr. or Clinton could have advised him on that.

Oh wait. They couldn't get N. Korea to do anything other than make threats, and have the world throw money at them to shut them up.

Kim's flat broke. They don't have the money to build missiles. They didn't just decide they want to be good guys. Soon as Trump called the meeting off, they sent one of their top guys over to beg to get it back on track.

Interested in seeing the outcome of the first meeting next week. Sounds like it could be the official end of the Korean War.

I appreciate your optimism, and I hope you're right. Things may just wind up going well, the Korean War could be declared over, and the commemorative coins Trump made may be taken off of sale and be brought back up to their original selling price.

There were reasons why previous administrations didn't deal with NK: nuclear testing, missile firings over Japan, kidnapping South Koreans and others, assassinations in foreign countries -- the list is long. Act like a rogue state, get treated like a rogue state.

Trump's utter ignorance of statesmanship, protocol and diplomacy, however, aren't made up. He wans Russian back in the G7? That's not a big surprise, but it's alienated all of the US' closest allies (along with all of his other alienating behavior). Trade war with Canada? Bring it on! Again, meeting with Kim Yong-chol was a blunder that most people aren't perceiving -- Trump is legitimizing NK before they've actually done anything to deserve it. Again, I'd like to be optimistic, but no reason to believe Trump won't simply get played again. The way this has played out -- quick announcement, commemorative coin, calls for the Nobel from his base, the cancellation with a crazily worded letter, the announcement that it is back on -- this is all evidence that Trump doesn't understand what he is doing.

But again -- maybe there is room for optimism. We'll have to wait and see. And purchase commemorative coins.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 08, 2018, 11:41:02
I didn't see it on the news the other day, but NK has destroyed another of their missile testing sites.

NK needs this way more than we do.

It's in China's best interest to back us on this one rather than NK, so that helps.

I did read about Clinton's opportunity to get something done with Kim's father. More or less, he was at the end of his term, and was afraid he'd fail and it'd look bad.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 08, 2018, 12:13:01
Did see yesterday that US Steel is firing up a second blast furnace. Everybody's wanting to buy the 'Merican made steel right now.

Ordered another batch of 6061 yesterday. All the prices were the same as the last truck load, except one size. One size went from $3.11/ft to $3.12/ft.

If the principle of supply and demand hold true, we should see wages start rising soon.

For the first time, in at least 20 years, there's more open jobs than job seekers. With an especially large bump in skilled manufacturing jobs.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 08, 2018, 18:40:35
Do you think the "witch hunt" has found a witch?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jun 08, 2018, 18:51:43
Manafort just oozes mob boss.  He has that look.  Maybe he'll get cast for Godfather 4, if they ever make one.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 08, 2018, 18:57:30
I wouldn't be surprised to see his case tossed.

It'll be picked up immediately by someone that has the authority to prosecute it. But tossed out under the Mueller scope.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 09, 2018, 09:33:03
China's trying to buy its way out of tariffs.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-offers-to-buy-nearly-70-billion-of-u-s-farm-and-energy-products-1528208835 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-offers-to-buy-nearly-70-billion-of-u-s-farm-and-energy-products-1528208835)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 09, 2018, 23:20:43
Good omen for Singapore?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Jun 11, 2018, 09:26:59
Good omen for Singapore?

Do you think he realizes that canada has a lower population than California?

What exactly does he think he can get from Canada exactly? We have 10% of the population USA does, not exactly a yuuuge untapped market...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 11, 2018, 10:37:34
Do you think he realizes that canada has a lower population than California?

We have to be honest -- he doesn't realize much. He's blundering.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jun 11, 2018, 12:40:52
He's just a cheap bully and thinks that as King of the US, that everyone else should kow tow to him. What an ignorant ass.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 11, 2018, 16:51:39
Big meeting tomorrow. If he can negotiate the official end to the Korean War, which seems to be widely expected, he's going to bully his way to a Nobel Peace Prize, and almost guaranteed re-election.


Saw a story yesterday, Kim didn't even have the money to fly all his people, and himself over to Singapore. China loaned them a few planes. Lol.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 11, 2018, 17:16:44
Big meeting tomorrow. If he can negotiate the official end to the Korean War, which seems to be widely expected, he's going to bully his way to a Nobel Peace Prize, and almost guaranteed re-election.


Saw a story yesterday, Kim didn't even have the money to fly all his people, and himself over to Singapore. China loaned them a few planes. Lol.

Again, I appreciate your optimism (and enthusiasm?)but...

I don't think very many people expect him to negotiate the end of the Korean War with one sit-down with Kim Jong Un. Possible? I guess. Probable? Not by a long shot, I imagine. Trump and Kim have both proven themselves unstable egomaniacs with thin skins. But the process will -- or should -- take several sessions. Should he win the Nobel for this? I'm going to punt -- that's not for me to decide, but I have a hard time thinking the modern Nobel committee would give a prize to someone accused of so much sexual harassment, who paid off a porn star, who openly flaunts white nationalism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and racism, who has had various members of his administration brought up on charges and who is himself facing an ongoing investigation for obstruction of justice, who lies repeatedly and wantonly, who ignores disasters such as Puerto Rico which led to the deaths of thousands of American citizens, and who has been accused of attempting to scrap the entire Western alliance and who has been accused of acting like a Russian agent or host of Russia Today. A Nobel for Dictator Coddling? Perhaps.

And let's be honest -- Trump isn't bringing anyone with him who knows anything about nuclear science. It's likely he will be lied to or sucked up to by the North Koreans to buy time, etc. I haven't checked whether the price of the commemorative coins is back up to their original price, but it'll be interesting to look for fluctuations after today!

And let me head you off right here -- they're not going to refuse him the Nobel because he's a Republican. But then again, Kissinger got the prize and he should be in jail as a war criminal.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 11, 2018, 17:43:35
We'll find out in a day or two, my friend.

To clarify on your last paragraph on the Republican bit; Dem or Republican, makes no difference to me. Can't hardly stand either. I'm fairly liberal socially. I'm fairly conservative fiscally. All else, I pretty well fall in the middle. I don't want any President to fail in general, and especially not because of their political affiliation. Nor do I see the point in being the eternal pessimist.

As it stands, us blue collar workers, things are looking great. Manufacturing industry is absolutely booming. I've heard more than a few old times say it hasn't been this good since the 80's/early 90's. Just prior to NAFTA.

To the point. Don't lump people into one group or the other simply because they don't share your view on things. That is precisely what lost Hillary the election.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 11, 2018, 20:11:01
We'll find out in a day or two, my friend.

To clarify on your last paragraph on the Republican bit; Dem or Republican, makes no difference to me. Can't hardly stand either. I'm fairly liberal socially. I'm fairly conservative fiscally. All else, I pretty well fall in the middle. I don't want any President to fail in general, and especially not because of their political affiliation. Nor do I see the point in being the eternal pessimist.

As it stands, us blue collar workers, things are looking great. Manufacturing industry is absolutely booming. I've heard more than a few old times say it hasn't been this good since the 80's/early 90's. Just prior to NAFTA.

To the point. Don't lump people into one group or the other simply because they don't share your view on things. That is precisely what lost Hillary the election.

Don't know your affiliations, and I'm not making assumptions nor am I trying to lump you or anyone else into a group, but that is something I have heard repeatedly from people who for some reason or another think that Trump actually has a shot at a Nobel Prize. And the people who are pushing for Trump to have a shot at the Nobel Prize -- before he actually does anything -- are the Republican leadership and his base. I'm also not one to be eternally pessimistic, nor do I wish for things in the US to go down the toilet, but honestly -- this shouldn't be the new normal. People who try to portray the man as idiosyncratic or somehow acceptable because the economy hasn't tanked and he's going to meet with Kim Jong Un (something, BTW, conservatives had a shitfit about when Obama mulled it over).

But again, there is undeniable racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, misogyny, etc., coming from the White House, as well as proven corruption, almost certain collusion with Russia, and almost certain obstruction of justice. Glad that the economy is doing well, but c'mon -- doesn't any of this bother you?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jun 11, 2018, 20:31:17
Serious question:  What has Trump done to affect any boom in the economy?  The GDP is at 2.3% for Q1 in 2018, which matches the GDP for all of 2017.  The best it's been since the 80s is 1996 - 2000, where it hovered above 4% and nearly reached 5% in 1999.  Everything tanked in 2001 and stayed that way for a few years until 2005.  Then 2007 happened and it really tanked.  We haven't hit 3% GDP since 2005, and the closest we came is 2015 when TPP and the Iran deal happened. 

Most economist describe our current situation as "not bad", which is a little bit different than saying it's good or great. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 11, 2018, 20:41:06
Serious question:  What has Trump done to affect any boom in the economy?  The GDP is at 2.3% for Q1 in 2018, which matches the GDP for all of 2017.  The best it's been since the 80s is 1996 - 2000, where it hovered above 4% and nearly reached 5% in 1999.  Everything tanked in 2001 and stayed that way for a few years until 2005.  Then 2007 happened and it really tanked.  We haven't hit 3% GDP since 2005, and the closest we came is 2015 when TPP and the Iran deal happened. 

Most economist describe our current situation as "not bad", which is a little bit different than saying it's good or great.
I think it's mainly a shift in where it's happening. Manufacturing is booming unlike it has in many, many years.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Jun 11, 2018, 21:32:19
I think it's mainly a shift in where it's happening. Manufacturing is booming unlike it has in many, many years.

I will be interested to see what the effects will when the exemptions on steel/Al end on july 1st.
Also wondering how the construction was affected by the lumber tariffs.

I know that the price of a market Hog went from 200-150 in 4 weeks after china announced retaliation tariffs...

Don’t be blinded
Lots of people will loose money here
Most often it’s the consumer at the end, some times the producer eats the loss (nobody eats losses like a pig farmer)
This is a tax in disguise
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 11, 2018, 21:39:04
I will be interested to see what the effects will when the exemptions on steel/Al end on july 1st.
Also wondering how the construction was affected by the lumber tariffs.

I know that the price of a market Hog went from 200-150 in 4 weeks after china announced retaliation tariffs...

Don’t be blinded
Lots of people will loose money here
Most often it’s the consumer at the end, some times the producer eats the loss (nobody eats losses like a pig farmer)
This is a tax in disguise
It'll only hurt those that buy imported material. All my aluminum comes from Kaiser. Every stick stamped "Made in USA." No noticeable increases yet, don't expect to see any.

I posted a link a page or two ago, China's trying to buy their way out of tariffs. If they do, which is what we want, to lessen the trade imbalance, they pledged to buy billions in additional pork products.

Lumber will rise. It went up considerably beginning of the spring, as it always does. Round about $1 a stud increase then.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 12, 2018, 11:58:29
Interested in some takes on Singapore.

It seems that the only positive from the meeting seems to be the fact that they met, and it seems they have walked back from the belligerent talk that defined their relationship. But walking up to the brink was also instigated by the both of them, so that doesn't seem so much like progress but rather a return to the status quo. Those whoa re thinking positively think that it could be the start of a new dialogue, but here are some quotes from Trump's post-meeting news conference:

"I think he’ll do it. I really believe that, otherwise I wouldn’t be doing this. I really believe, and — it was really the engine-testing site, in addition to all of the other things that they’ve agreed to do. It was the — they have a very powerful engine-testing site, that again we’re able to see because of the heat that it emits. And, yeah, I’m able to — I’m very happy, I’ll tell you what, I’m very happy with those two points, the two points you mentioned, but I think you might be referring to the thing that’s not in, which is the engine-testing site.

Honestly, I think he’s going to do these things. I may be wrong, I mean I may stand before you in six months and say, hey, I was wrong — I don’t know that I’ll ever admit that, but I’ll find some kind of an excuse."

Many think Trump got played.
-- The meeting itself was recognition of the status as an equal of a brutal military dictatorship with a nuclear arsenal.
-- Trump gave up a lot, without getting a lot. Halting exercises with S Korea, providing security assurances to N Korea, and what the US got was the same vague promise since 1992 to denuclearize. Trump apparently believes this is a huge and new concession; it is not. Bilateral military exercises act as the chief deterrent to a belligerent North Korea -- South Korea and Japan are, as you would imagine, extremely nervous about this. China, however, is very happy about this.
-- There is no wording of a timetable, no concrete promises of how this will proceed, no language on halting testing, nothing about making a declaration of what it has, in terms of nukes.
-- Kim Jong Un promised to return American remains from the war -- but this is repeating a pledge made repeatedly since the 1980s.
-- Kim Jong un comes out glowing in the PR department, with Trump crowing, "He's a very talented man," " I like him," "He's smart and loves his country very much." This is a man who holds the reins of a brutal military dictatorship, who has murdered political enemies including relatives, and whose people live in an Orwellian society based on fear through propaganda and force. Trump thinks he's smart and talented, and likes him.
-- Contrary to high hopes -- there has been no announcement of the end of the Korean War. Nobel hopes dashed?
-- Trump did not prepare for this meeting, and it showed. Trump got played.
-- Iran sent a message to Kim warning him that Trump pulls out of treaties at the drop of the hat.

Optimists are saying this is the start of ongoing negotiations. If so, I hope the Trump administration prepares for the next round and is actually able to win concessions.

I'll leave you with this, straight from Trump's mouth:

"I told him, “You may not want this. You may want to do a much smaller version of this. I mean, you’re going to do something, but you may want to do a smaller version. You may not want that, with trains, super everything at the top. And maybe you won’t want that.”
"It’s going to be up to them. It’s going to be up to the people, what they want. And they may not want that, and I understand that too. It’s a version of what could happen, what could take place As an example. they have great beaches. You see that whenever they’re exploding their cannons into the ocean, right? I said “Boy, look at that view. Wouldn’t that make a great condo?” And I explained, I said, instead of doing that you could have the best hotels in the world right there. Think of it from a real estate perspective. You have South Korea, you have China and they own the land in the middle. How bad is that, right? It’s great."

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Jun 12, 2018, 12:42:13
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/bf3f2f72ec6e60ad9fb2d9c4f78d758f.jpg)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 15, 2018, 18:55:13
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 15, 2018, 21:40:52
If this is a "witch hunt" they seem to keep finding witches.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 15, 2018, 21:54:42
.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 16, 2018, 01:26:19
If this is a "witch hunt" they seem to keep finding witches.

that is 100% the definition of a witch hunt... remember where the term comes from. thousands of innocent women were executed as witches because the evidence against them was exactly what their accusers said it was.

the Prosecutor who "sent manafort to prison" attended Hillary's election night party.

oh and by the way this has not much to do with Trump and the collusion story, since he's being convicted of crimes that happened 10 years ago. LOL
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 16, 2018, 15:05:53
that is 100% the definition of a witch hunt... remember where the term comes from. thousands of innocent women were executed as witches because the evidence against them was exactly what their accusers said it was.

the Prosecutor who "sent manafort to prison" attended Hillary's election night party.

oh and by the way this has not much to do with Trump and the collusion story, since he's being convicted of crimes that happened 10 years ago. LOL

Not sure where you're getting your information from but...

There were 20 victims of the Salem Witch Trials, not thousands. But a witch trial in the sense that Trump and his ilk are using the term means going after innocent victims. The Salem Witch Trials was a case of mass hysteria, although research has shown that it wasn't simply over "witchcraft," but rather property and land ownership and was complicated. The women were not "witches" hence a "witch hunt" is going after innocent victims.

And not sure where you are getting your information from about Manafort.  He has been accused of not disclosing payments from Russia and the Ukraine, as recently as the 2016 campaign, and has just been jailed for attempting to tamper with witnesses in the past 6 months.

If you are implying that this is simply a political stunt -- because the prosecutor favored Hilary Clinton as a candidate -- I think you are misunderstanding the nature and gravity of the crimes that Manafort is accused of. Mueller, a lifelong Republican, has leveled charges at Michael Flynn, Richard Gates, George Papadapoulos, and Alex van der Zwaan. Richard Panedo has pleaded guilty to setting up bank accounts in false names. Van der Zwaan pleaded guilty. Papadopoulos pleaded guilty. Gates pleaded guilty. Flynn pleaded guilty. There are also 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian businesses that have been indicted for interference in the 2016 election.

Happy to hear more arguments as to why there is no substance to this investigation, or that it is simply politically motivated, but you're going to have to cite some sources.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 16, 2018, 15:17:11
Manafort absolutely deserves to be jailed for his crimes. There is no mistake in that. But the which hunt thing, the conviction of these crimes came about because of a phoney investigation into supposed collusion between the trump campaign and Russian state officials to influence the election.  Something evidence has shown over and over that did not happen. There were people who were unknowingly duped by Russian people (not state actors) into gaining information and other useless crap and those people are already suffering the consequences of their poor research and actions. I'm not simply referring to just the Salem which trials...  over the course of the history of the church, thousands WERE indeed tortured and killed. It's an example that parallels this "collusion " investigation.... as the only crimes it has brought into light are absolutely unrelated to the crimes under investigation.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 16, 2018, 16:45:23
Manafort absolutely deserves to be jailed for his crimes. There is no mistake in that. But the which hunt thing, the conviction of these crimes came about because of a phoney investigation into supposed collusion between the trump campaign and Russian state officials to influence the election.  Something evidence has shown over and over that did not happen. There were people who were unknowingly duped by Russian people (not state actors) into gaining information and other useless crap and those people are already suffering the consequences of their poor research and actions. I'm not simply referring to just the Salem which trials...  over the course of the history of the church, thousands WERE indeed tortured and killed. It's an example that parallels this "collusion " investigation.... as the only crimes it has brought into light are absolutely unrelated to the crimes under investigation.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Wait -- Trump's son Donald, Jr., along with Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner, have admitted to meeting with Russians who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton during the campaign.

Flynn lied to FBI investigators about his contacts with Russia.

Gates and Manafort's charges have to do with secret payments and lobbying -- on behalf of Russia and Ukraine.

Papadopoulos lied about his connections to Russian officials and attempts to set up meeting with Trump campaign members.

Van der Zwaan and Gates are accused of secret lobbying on behalf of pro-Russian Ukrainian interests.

Pinedo sold bank accounts under fake names to Russians involved in elections meddling.

These aren't made up "fake news" items -- I am looking at a Fox News page with this information on it. If anyone has their nose up Trump's butt, it's Fox News, and although they certainly lie and distort the truth -- and their talking heads such as Hannity are spiraling downward into crazy conspiracy theories that make no sense -- even Fox has to admit that these charges are real, and related to the campaign.

Again, I'd like to see some sources if you have any that back up your assertions. If this is some kind of "liberal" or "deep state" conspiracy against Trump, being led by a Republican investigator, how can it possibly be continuing? Everyone is in on it? The rule of law is over? This requires some interesting mental gymnastics...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 16, 2018, 18:26:22
Ok, starting at the top with Jr. He met with Natalia Veselnitskaya (a Russian lawyer, who's access into the United states was fast tracked by Obama officials who she had closer ties with than with Putin. ) the meeting was set up by Goldstone and Natalia was one of many other Russians in the meeting including  artists, singers, beauty pageant members (of a pageant run by DJT) obviously if you are running a campaign of dirt on an opponent you're going to get it from some source... does it really matter what that source is if it's the truth?
Because the "Russian Trump Dossiers" were just the same thing, they were contracted hit pieces manufactured by fusion GPS under the employ of the Clinton campaign in an effort to trash her opposition. 

Flynn took a plea deal... he plead guilty to lying to save his family because he was threatened by the FBI and their weaponized politics. His contact with Russians was not illegal, though it could have ended up that way. He as fired by Trump when found out and referred to Justice Department by same for prosecution.

Lobbying for foreign governments is something probably half of Washington is guilty of.... throw them all in jail.

I couldn't tell you about hannity. Or fox I don't watch those shows, I do my own reading and research, not the spoonfed stuff many channels try to serve up.

I am happy to provide sources... I generally stay out of these types of conversations because most people are not willing to open their minds up to  evidence when it contradicts their core beliefs. I did not vote for Trump, I do support some of his ideas and not others. to be fair... I am on mobile so I will have to get home to find these sources again.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jun 16, 2018, 18:39:46

Lobbying for foreign governments is something probably half of Washington is guilty of.... throw them all in jail.


Lobbying is not, nor should be, illegal.  The issues at hand is non-compliance with the Foreign Agents Registration Act.  It's the secrecy.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 16, 2018, 19:42:44
Ok, starting at the top with Jr. He met with Natalia Veselnitskaya (a Russian lawyer, who's access into the United states was fast tracked by Obama officials who she had closer ties with than with Putin. ) the meeting was set up by Goldstone and Natalia was one of many other Russians in the meeting including  artists, singers, beauty pageant members (of a pageant run by DJT) obviously if you are running a campaign of dirt on an opponent you're going to get it from some source... does it really matter what that source is if it's the truth?
Because the "Russian Trump Dossiers" were just the same thing, they were contracted hit pieces manufactured by fusion GPS under the employ of the Clinton campaign in an effort to trash her opposition. 

Flynn took a plea deal... he plead guilty to lying to save his family because he was threatened by the FBI and their weaponized politics. His contact with Russians was not illegal, though it could have ended up that way. He as fired by Trump when found out and referred to Justice Department by same for prosecution.

Lobbying for foreign governments is something probably half of Washington is guilty of.... throw them all in jail.

I couldn't tell you about hannity. Or fox I don't watch those shows, I do my own reading and research, not the spoonfed stuff many channels try to serve up.

I am happy to provide sources... I generally stay out of these types of conversations because most people are not willing to open their minds up to  evidence when it contradicts their core beliefs. I did not vote for Trump, I do support some of his ideas and not others. to be fair... I am on mobile so I will have to get home to find these sources again.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Tit for tat. Emails, blow jobs, pizza gate, Benghazi, the list goes on. The problem with the investigation is that’s it’s still active. We might get to the end and it might be nothing. If that’s the case then Donnie will be justified. Good for him. If something is found, then the swamp has been drained. Donnie and his supporters can fly the “mission accomplished” flag. The difference between this investigation and other mud slinging is that one has several people who are guilty of one thing or another. The others were bs. Just like illegal immigrants people broke the law, Jeff “law and order” Sessions and all the other people who hate law breakers (not just brown ones) should have more to cheer about. That’s like a quadruple win. Go Mueller!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 16, 2018, 20:04:38
Birds of a feather …
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 17, 2018, 06:08:03
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 17, 2018, 09:11:40
In Pittsburgh there’s been quite a lot of backlash over this. The paper is rebranding as a  conservative news piece. They’ve featured a number of pretty bad editorials recently, all of which pushed out from a sister paper. It probably won’t hurt them in the burbs, but in the city I’m sure they’ll darn near screech to a halt sales wise. The PG’s only real competition (Tribune Review) went online only a few years back. I wouldn’t be surprised if the City Paper was the only PGH specific physical copy you could get in a year or two.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Jun 17, 2018, 20:48:28
Seems that Trump is interested in real estate deals in North Korea after he retires/resigns/gets out of jail.

As for the investigation into Russian interference, that is well understood to have happened.  The question that Muller (a lifelong republican) has been asked to address is whether the Trump campaign knowingly colluded with Russians.  It's clear that Trump had financial interests with many Russians and it certainly looks possible that Trump and his team knowingly interacted with Russians and lied about those interactions and all teh Russian cash going to Trump properties.

Was there collusion with a foreign government or did Trump and his team not understand how inappropriate their actions were, may never be clear.  But there is no witch hunt. It's a search for facts and if there are enough to suggest collusion, then so be it and if not that's fine too.  But as long as Trump continues to lie about his involvement and what reports state as facts, he is not doing himself any good. It certainly appears as if Trump is a bully and a cheap crook, but time will tell if enough facts emerge to show if he is also a traitor as has been suggested.  No point in any of us getting wound up about an ongoing investigation.  It will be over soon enough.

I have a suspicion though that if Muller finds insufficient evidence to impeach Trump, then Trump supporters will feel vindicated and anti Trumpers will feel enraged that the truth was hidden, so I'm not sure any result will be well received by many Americans.  The other funny thing about human behavior is that as a group we seem to ignore facts until they can no longer be ignored and then we get all bent out of shape that no one told us there was a problem.  If this turns out badly for Trump, who will the average American blame? Congress for doing nothing?  The media for being too soft on him? Comey or Sessions for not doing more?  I have a feeling that whatever the final report says, America will be more divided than ever.  That is truly sad.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 21, 2018, 01:20:58
Pecker? this whole thing is beyond satire!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 22, 2018, 02:25:33
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 22, 2018, 06:23:08
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 22, 2018, 11:53:02
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All it took, was $39.99 to troll every media outlet in the U.S.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 22, 2018, 13:00:13
Lol I love it


Oh and time magazine.. wonder if the next issue will be the truth? Father of that child feature on the front was never even separated from her mother, they went to the boarder even though he knew it was a bad idea.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 25, 2018, 11:58:45
Lol I love it


Oh and time magazine.. wonder if the next issue will be the truth? Father of that child feature on the front was never even separated from her mother, they went to the boarder even though he knew it was a bad idea.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

And the photo of Trump wasn't him looking at a small child originally, most likely. That's not the point.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 25, 2018, 11:59:24
All it took, was $39.99 to troll every media outlet in the U.S.

I guess trolling media outlets with a callous message is something the first lady should be proud of, and do more often?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jun 25, 2018, 12:20:14
I'm still buying into Chomsky's theory that Trump and all of his -isms are just a distraction from the Republican's agenda of dismantling the government and every program that benefits the people. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 25, 2018, 16:14:41
I'm still buying into Chomsky's theory that Trump and all of his -isms are just a distraction from the Republican's agenda of dismantling the government and every program that benefits the people.

The problem with that theory is that the Republicans control all the branches and are flailing around and achieving very little. I like when Trump blames Democrats, it shows he doesn't understand the basic mathematic principle of the majority. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jun 25, 2018, 16:38:17
The problem with that theory is that the Republicans control all the branches and are flailing around and achieving very little. 
You sure about that?  See: Tax reform, Iran nuclear deal,  Paris Climate Accord, Crippling of ACA (no repeal yet, but it's set up now to completely fail), merging of cabinets, reduction of Federal Government, installation of a conservative US Supreme Court Justice (potentially 2), opening of Federal land to mining and drilling, etc, etc, etc.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 25, 2018, 19:29:50
The problem with that theory is that the Republicans control all the branches and are flailing around and achieving very little. I like when Trump blames Democrats, it shows he doesn't understand the basic mathematic principle of the majority.
There's having the majority, and there's having the 60 votes necessary.

The right has the majority, they do not have the 60 votes, so, mathematically the Dems can hold up bills.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 25, 2018, 23:43:14
People dont understand how anything really works jrod, so naturally instead of taking action and fixing the problems as they see them, they act out online and in the streets with signs.

A lot has been accomplished so far, things we elected our leaders to do. There is opposition always,  it the Democrats have become obstructionists, take Maxine for instance... creating protest because people want to shop or eat at a restaurant... that's fucking nuts.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 26, 2018, 02:24:46
People dont understand how anything really works jrod, so naturally instead of taking action and fixing the problems as they see them, they act out online and in the streets with signs.

A lot has been accomplished so far, things we elected our leaders to do. There is opposition always,  it the Democrats have become obstructionists, take Maxine for instance... creating protest because people want to shop or eat at a restaurant... that's fucking nuts.

While there are always people who want to obstruct, for example the GOP from Obama's first day, some might argue that people who are trying to obstruct Trump may have a point.

And those pesky -- dare I say "uppity" -- people taking to the streets with signs? They have no idea how things work I guess, so they just act out in the streets with signs. No chance that the act of protest could actually bring about political change.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/37749-260618002015.jpeg)
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/37749-260618002032.jpeg)
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/37749-260618002054.jpeg)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 26, 2018, 09:56:15
People dont understand how anything really works jrod, so naturally instead of taking action and fixing the problems as they see them, they act out online and in the streets with signs.

A lot has been accomplished so far, things we elected our leaders to do. There is opposition always,  it the Democrats have become obstructionists, take Maxine for instance... creating protest because people want to shop or eat at a restaurant... that's fucking nuts.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Again, tit for tat. The Republicans wrote the book on obstruction. The difference however is that the Dem's never had the power that the Republicans currently have. Of course we will see what happens come November. If the Democrats are obstructionist now, imagine how much the Republicans are going to cry if they lose more seats.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 26, 2018, 10:01:23
Again, tit for tat. The Republicans wrote the book on obstruction. The difference however is that the Dem's never had the power that the Republicans currently have. Of course we will see what happens come November. If the Democrats are obstructionist now, imagine how much the Republicans are going to cry if they lose more seats.
How do you figure the Dems never had the same power? When Obama came in, Dems had control of everything, same as Repubs do currently.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 26, 2018, 10:20:14
It's been so long I can't remember, but as I recall the Democrats only held total control of Congress for something like 4 months of Obama's term. Compared to going on 2 years for this current administration.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 26, 2018, 10:23:05
They held it until mid-terms. Mid-terms always fall two years after the Presidential election, no?

They pushed Obama care through in 09.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jun 26, 2018, 10:24:47
Dems held control of the House for 2 years and the Senate for 6 years under Obama.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 26, 2018, 10:34:16
Ted Kennedy died and was replaced with a Republican in 2010, but the Dem's still held majority.

And I believe three Republicans broke rank to beat the filibuster on ACA.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 26, 2018, 10:53:08
My point of course is that unitary control, historically, should be the most productive periods for those in that position. With elections a few months away, and the potential for that control to dwindle I would think the Republicans would be a little more unified in their goals.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 26, 2018, 10:55:24
Seems to be the way it works. Incoming Presidents party has Congress, two years later they lose it.

Granted, that's not all that important in the Senate when stuff requires 60 votes. You can have the majority, and still have the minority hold up everything you do, and both sides do it when they're the minority.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 26, 2018, 19:58:06
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 27, 2018, 16:56:50
Gorsuch was confirmed in like 48 days or something after nomination. Here we go folks, 30 years of an ultra conservative Supreme court coming our way.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 27, 2018, 19:43:51
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 27, 2018, 23:35:31
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 28, 2018, 18:22:47
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/overseas-profits-return/ (https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/overseas-profits-return/)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jun 28, 2018, 19:50:26
Only slightly opinionated that article.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jun 29, 2018, 01:26:17
I for one like the rosy prognostications in the article that relate them to 2004. Apparently the authors forgot what happened a mere 3-5 years later partly as a result of the deregulation they lionize.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jun 30, 2018, 15:51:01
Political tone aside, the numbers are legit.

We've had over $300,000,000,000 brought back stateside in the last quarter, and taxed, that otherwise would still be sitting overseas.

Something that all the "experts" said wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 02, 2018, 19:01:24
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 02, 2018, 21:27:26
You won't see ecstasy and Trump together again!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 03, 2018, 00:44:08
Back when I was a young man the Bart Simpson heads were all the rage.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Jul 03, 2018, 04:10:41
Dont do drugs kids, it will only fill your heads with liberal fantasies about open borders and other unrealistic shit. Been there. Open borders, free migration and multiculturalism quickly destroyed a functioning country. Thank you social democracy.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 03, 2018, 20:53:18
I’m sorry, but that’s the funniest thing I’ve read in quite some time. You nailed it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 04, 2018, 06:20:03
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 05, 2018, 19:44:07
Why did it take so long?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 09, 2018, 23:45:41
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 13, 2018, 22:21:17
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 17, 2018, 01:47:18
Jaw-dropping!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 17, 2018, 06:25:48
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 22, 2018, 18:32:27
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 26, 2018, 22:46:00
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jul 27, 2018, 11:15:02
Oh, he flipped.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 27, 2018, 12:31:08
Yeah, he squealed like a pig. When will the dam finally break?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 27, 2018, 14:27:23
If Cohen had anything of worth to offer, Mueller wouldn't have handed him off to NYC to investigate.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 27, 2018, 15:16:21
If Cohen had anything of worth to offer, Mueller wouldn't have handed him off to NYC to investigate.

Isn't a recorded conversation of an attempted cash payoff to a playmate to cover an extramarital affair just after the president's wife gave birth to their son something of interest?

Shit, forgot, we are in the age of Trump and payoffs to porn stars and others to cover extramarital affairs is de rigueur.

It looks as though the Mueller investigation is winding down, and to me it looks like Trump is looking and acting more and more like a rat about to go down with the ship. But I've also thought that for several months so...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 27, 2018, 15:31:21
I couldn't care less who Trump dips his stick in. We didn't care when Kennedy did it, we didn't do anything about it when Clinton did it, other than the massive media circus that accomplished nothing.

I do care about that GDP, though. 4.1% in Q2 is great for the country.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 27, 2018, 15:42:01
I couldn't care less who Trump dips his stick in. We didn't care when Kennedy did it, we didn't do anything about it when Clinton did it, other than the massive media circus that accomplished nothing.

I do care about that GDP, though. 4.1% in Q2 is great for the country.

We held impeachment hearings for Clinton, which isn't exactly doing nothing, on charges of obstruction and perjury. Clinton also didn't arrange payoffs. Clinton also didn't have the National Enquirer spike the story.

Part of the irony is that the Republican party is much, much more conservative about sex than the democratic party, especially the evangelical lobby. And they are the ones forgiving Trump (and Gingrich, and Limbaugh, and whoever else).

Great for the economy. Will it last? Who knows. Economists don't think it is, but rather think it's a little foreboding (inflated numbers due to stockpiling). Did Trump just essentially give farmers $12 billion in a federal payment because his policies made them unable to earn it through international trade? Isn't that bizarre?

I guess most people can all find ways to justify behavior and policies if it is consistent with our goals or ideology, regardless of the person implementing them. But this whole situation is bizarre and troubling and will have some crazy implications for the future of the American economy and politics. The man is a grifter and his entire family is profiting from the presidency.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jul 27, 2018, 15:52:40
Most of that 4.1% (9.3%) came from the export rush as farmers hurried to get their crops out before the tariffs.  Most economists don't think the 4.1% is sustainable.  Also, 7% came from corporations spending their tax cut which supposedly isn't sustainable either.  I'm no economist, but that seems to be the majority of chatter in the news.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 27, 2018, 15:54:33
If Cohen had anything of worth to offer, Mueller wouldn't have handed him off to NYC to investigate.

Maybe Mueller wants to head off the possibility of a pardon.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 27, 2018, 16:28:48
Most of that 4.1% (9.3%) came from the export rush as farmers hurried to get their crops out before the tariffs.  Most economists don't think the 4.1% is sustainable.  Also, 7% came from corporations spending their tax cut which supposedly isn't sustainable either.  I'm no economist, but that seems to be the majority of chatter in the news.

4.1% is likely not sustainable.

Plenty of economists agree that 3%+ is, however. Which is roughly double what it has been since 2014 until recently.

Good write up on it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/07/27/trump-goal-of-3-percent-economic-growth-is-achievable-and-sustainable.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/07/27/trump-goal-of-3-percent-economic-growth-is-achievable-and-sustainable.html)

There is zero reason to believe business spending tax cuts isn't sustainable, as business tax cuts don't sunset. We've got them for good, at least until the Dem's gain control again and raise taxes.

Consumer spending is likely to increase. Unemployment is low, more jobs than people to fill them will lead to higher wages to poach workers, which leads to more spending.

Be interesting to see what gets worked out with the EU and China. They need us more than we need them. We send 5% of our product to China, they send us 20% of theirs. Europe, we could, and would crush them if they are foolish enough to continue on the path they were on until a few days ago. If we end up with mostly free trade, it'll be huge for us. The only thing of note coming to the US from the EU is cars. We tariff their cars, it'll crush them. They know this, and that is why they were so eager to come to the table a couple days ago.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Jul 27, 2018, 17:07:51
Unemployment is low, more jobs than people to fill them will lead to higher wages to poach workers, which leads to more spending.


Been hearing an interesting take on unemployment- mostly because baby boomers are retiring and it will get even better as more retire.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 27, 2018, 17:51:16


Been hearing an interesting take on unemployment- mostly because baby boomers are retiring and it will get even better as more retire.
A good many are at that age now, and more and more each year. That'll open up high wage, high skill jobs. My concern, we lack the skilled workers to fill them back.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 27, 2018, 22:54:24
Speaking of tax cuts... looks like the deficit is going to balloon at much faster rates than those predicted by those pushing the tax cuts.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/trump-corporate-tax-cut-deficit.html
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 27, 2018, 23:14:08
Speaking of tax cuts... looks like the deficit is going to balloon at much faster rates than those predicted by those pushing the tax cuts.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/trump-corporate-tax-cut-deficit.html
That's a spending problem. Not a tax problem.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 28, 2018, 08:47:17
By definition it’s both a spending and a revenue problem.

Quote
Deficit spending is the amount by which spending exceeds revenue over a particular period of time, also called simply deficit, or budget deficit; the opposite of budget surplus. The term may be applied to the budget of a government, private company, or individual.

Quartely growth at times was over 5% with Obama. I’m not sure why everybody is so pumped when we see Trump in the low 4’s. Especially considering that corporate taxes are now the lowest in the industrial world. We should be out pacing Obama if tax rates are so good for business.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 28, 2018, 10:10:23
By definition it’s both a spending and a revenue problem.

Quartely growth at times was over 5% with Obama. I’m not sure why everybody is so pumped when we see Trump in the low 4’s. Especially considering that corporate taxes are now the lowest in the industrial world. We should be out pacing Obama if tax rates are so good for business.
One time. While his annual never reached the 3% they're predicting now. So, Obama had 4 quarters north of 4%, and not a one at 3% annually. So, in the long game, we are outpacing Obama.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 28, 2018, 13:48:02
They are predicting we will out pace it, so we will see. It will be interesting how this helps revenue.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 28, 2018, 13:55:06
They are predicting we will out pace it, so we will see. It will be interesting how this helps revenue.

I read some of these articles pertaining to the economy, and they say "conservative economist," or "liberal economist."

There should be no political affiliation on predicting the economy. Numbers are numbers. It's hard to know what to believe, what not to. More or less just see how it ends up when it's over.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 28, 2018, 14:46:21
That's a spending problem. Not a tax problem.

This doesn't make much sense, as pointed out.

But I guess economic indicators is one way of many to measure this presidency, and if growth can be maintained maybe that will temper a presidential legacy that so far will be remembered for embracing racism and xenophobia, pulling children away from mothers and putting them in cages, alienating America's enemies, embracing dictators, encouraging violence against minorities, sanctioning presidential payoffs to porn stars, etc., etc. There are long term consequences to all of these issues and since a quarter of economic growth is just one measurement it's pretty hard to forget the others...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 28, 2018, 14:47:36
I read some of these articles pertaining to the economy, and they say "conservative economist," or "liberal economist."

There should be no political affiliation on predicting the economy. Numbers are numbers. It's hard to know what to believe, what not to. More or less just see how it ends up when it's over.

Economics is a social science. Despite social scientists' desire to claim "scientific neutrality" it's a myth.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 28, 2018, 15:15:50
This doesn't make much sense, as pointed out.

But I guess economic indicators is one way of many to measure this presidency, and if growth can be maintained maybe that will temper a presidential legacy that so far will be remembered for embracing racism and xenophobia, pulling children away from mothers and putting them in cages, alienating America's enemies, embracing dictators, encouraging violence against minorities, sanctioning presidential payoffs to porn stars, etc., etc. There are long term consequences to all of these issues and since a quarter of economic growth is just one measurement it's pretty hard to forget the others...
Ah, putting kids in cages. Granted it wasn't an issue when other administrations did it, and a good many pictures circulated were from the Obama Administration. Oddly enough the most prominent picture used, wasn't even separated from her family. Time really struck gold with that one. Here's an idea. If you don't like the enforcement of laws on the books, get with your representatives, and let them know you would like the laws changed.

Being a spending issue, it makes plenty of sense. I assume you live within your means. If you don't have money for something, you don't buy it. A person, corporation, or country is no different. You either live within your means, or take on debt until you go bust. Government overspending isn't a new concept that came along under Trump.

As far as paying off porn stars. Again, I don't particularly care. As far as what has been made public, it hasn't occurred during his administration, it wasn't done with tax money. I don't particularly care for Trump as a person. As the President, I hope the economy continues to trend upward. I hope the country breaks 3% GDP this year, next year, and the year after that. I hope we either crush Europe and China in tariffs, or they do what is right, and enter into fair trade agreements. We've sort of been getting railed for decades on that front. Individuals lack the ability to understand that a bit of rockiness in the short term, in exchange for better deals in the long term isn't the end of the world, as a country. At the same time, I can understand their viewpoint. Nobody wants to take less, for any amount of time, and it very well could be the end of their world.

On another note, we got back the remains of quite a few of our soldiers killed in Korea yesterday, and NK is demolishing another nuclear site, and precisely zero missiles have been launched over Japan or Guam this year. But yeah, cozy-ing up to dictators. Humorous that the left has somehow figured out a way to demonize the prospect of denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula entirely.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 29, 2018, 14:39:03
You don't think that stopping catch and release, the default action of the prior administration, and implementing separation of children from their parents increased significantly after Trump's administration implemented its new policy? Sure, it happened before occasionally, but nowhere near on the recent level. Here's an idea: think about separating children from their parents as against international human rights norms -- most people do -- and against the 8th amendment's cruel and unusual punishment clause and roundly condemn it in all cases, in all countries, anywhere, anytime. Time was making a visual representation as a criticism of Trump's policy -- you don't actually think that people were meant to believe that Trump was standing a few feet away from the kid, do you?

Nobody is saying Trump's policies are the end of the world. But if you think the US has been getting screwed over by the rest of the world I would invite you to take a step back and think of two things. First, international trade is not a zero-sum game. Mutual benefit is possible, and generally occurs. Second, compare the US to the entire world in a very general economic sense. The US is doing pretty well in most regards. This notion that the US is getting screwed over doesn't make much sense, and doesn't take into account intangibles such as soft power.

Great for getting US soldiers remains returned. If you know much about the history of relations between the US and North Korea, you'd know that there hasn't been much of a shift in relations or in N Korea's actions. Most analysts agree that a non-binding agreement doesn't mean anything, and the simple fact of meeting with Kim Jong Un increased his standing. North Korea has decades of negotiating and stalling and apparently reducing their capabilities only to have other operations appear later. I too hope something positive comes out of it, but so far I am unimpressed, as are most people.

But there are plenty of other dictators we could talk about. Putin? Duterte?

Again, thinking about the administration as a whole, one has to accept a ton of pretty terrible things to be able to say "yeah, but the economy is doing well"  -- racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia. I'll keep bringing them up, others I guess will continue to ignore them.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 29, 2018, 14:50:59
Just out of curiosity, do we need to rail against local governments for Americans who are separated from their children when they get taken to jail too, or do we just complain about it when it has to do with immigration laws?

The it happened, but not as much bit is a wee bit played out.

Both sides have fumbled on immigration. For some reason, we can't get Congress to do anything about it. Then again, why would they? That's a major campaign platform they'd lose.

Yes, we are doing well. So, in your opinion, that means we should allow our trading partners to take advantage of us in trade deals, because we're doing alright?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Jul 30, 2018, 15:41:14
Just out of curiosity, do we need to rail against local governments for Americans who are separated from their children when they get taken to jail too, or do we just complain about it when it has to do with immigration laws?

The it happened, but not as much bit is a wee bit played out.

Both sides have fumbled on immigration. For some reason, we can't get Congress to do anything about it. Then again, why would they? That's a major campaign platform they'd lose.

Yes, we are doing well. So, in your opinion, that means we should allow our trading partners to take advantage of us in trade deals, because we're doing alright?
Try having 5% of your population be imported middle eastern or thereabouts, mainly islamic males. Then try to be positive about migration
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 30, 2018, 15:56:54
Just out of curiosity, do we need to rail against local governments for Americans who are separated from their children when they get taken to jail too, or do we just complain about it when it has to do with immigration laws?

The it happened, but not as much bit is a wee bit played out.

Both sides have fumbled on immigration. For some reason, we can't get Congress to do anything about it. Then again, why would they? That's a major campaign platform they'd lose.


I mean we don't separate children from families for misdemeanor offenses, so your hypothetical is false from the get go.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 30, 2018, 17:18:09
I mean we don't separate children from families for misdemeanor offenses, so your hypothetical is false from the get go.
Except it isn't. And, we absolutely do. If you get arrested for, say, misdemeanor drug possession, or DUI, and taken to jail, if you have no family to take your kids, the state takes your kids. It happens all the time.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 30, 2018, 18:04:06
Immigrants aren’t committing drug offenses or DUI’s. They are walking over the border and in most cases are doing so in the hope of a better life. So it’s a false equivalence.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 30, 2018, 18:25:33
Not in the eyes of the law, it isn't. A Class A misdemeanor is a Class A misdemeanor, regardless of what the offense was that falls under that classification (I have no idea what class illegal border crossing falls under).

It's not a false equivalence. The law, is the law, until it gets changed. First it was parents don't get separated from their kids for a misdemeanor, now it's that's a different misdemeanor. Fact is, parents here get separated from their children every day for misdemeanor offenses. But, now we're supposed to be outraged because it's illegal immigrants.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: esmoojee on Jul 30, 2018, 19:53:27
Why can’t they go to a port of entry like other immigrants that came here in the past to establish a better life? If they’re truly seeking sanctuary then there should be no problem going about it legally. Sneaking into someone else’s country seems suspect to me. They know they’re breaking our laws but they don’t care until they’re caught. There is very little respect for the law anymore. And I’m in agreement, if you’re unhappy with the laws then do something to help change them.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 30, 2018, 19:59:05
Except that some of these immigrants may have legitimate claims for seeking asylum, which need to be heard. The "Zero tolerance" policy instigated by Sessions in April is what commenced immediate separation of children from parents with no consideration whatsoever as to the legitimacy of their claim for asylum.

Equating this as being similar to having the state take care of a child should a parent be arrested for a crime is false equivalency, and a bad example. That child would be remanded to relatives. That child's parent would be reunited with his/her child the next day if, for example, he/she spent the night in jail for DUI. The parent, if held longer, would be able to communicate with his/her child. The child would not be sent across the country, say from Texas to New York, without the parent knowing, and be held incommunicado.

It's difficult to get some people to agree that removing children from parents in this way is a violation of human rights -- some people seem to want to argue that migrants are less human in some way, and thus not deserving of basic human respect and dignity. Datadavid, will refer to them as pests or vermin, as Donald Trump does, disregarding the fact that he completely misconstrues what is happening in his native country, and avoids confronting facts.

The Southern United States had some great years in terms of their economy, prior to 1865, but it is difficult to ignore the conditions there when assessing the Southern economy. In the same way, as I keep bringing up but that nobody seems to want to engage, the level of fearmongering, lying, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, self-enriching, and swindling being done by this administration will not be ignored by history, and shouldn't be ignored now.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Jul 30, 2018, 20:12:29
Except that some of these immigrants may have legitimate claims for seeking asylum, which need to be heard. The "Zero tolerance" policy instigated by Sessions in April is what commenced immediate separation of children from parents with no consideration whatsoever as to the legitimacy of their claim for asylum.

Equating this as being similar to having the state take care of a child should a parent be arrested for a crime is false equivalency, and a bad example. That child would be remanded to relatives. That child's parent would be reunited with his/her child the next day if, for example, he/she spent the night in jail for DUI. The parent, if held longer, would be able to communicate with his/her child. The child would not be sent across the country, say from Texas to New York, without the parent knowing, and be held incommunicado.

It's difficult to get some people to agree that removing children from parents in this way is a violation of human rights -- some people seem to want to argue that migrants are less human in some way, and thus not deserving of basic human respect and dignity. Datadavid, will refer to them as pests or vermin, as Donald Trump does, disregarding the fact that he completely misconstrues what is happening in his native country, and avoids confronting facts.

The Southern United States had some great years in terms of their economy, prior to 1865, but it is difficult to ignore the conditions there when assessing the Southern economy. In the same way, as I keep bringing up but that nobody seems to want to engage, the level of fearmongering, lying, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, self-enriching, and swindling being done by this administration will not be ignored by history, and shouldn't be ignored now.
You have no idea boy. No idea. We are being murdered and raped by your friends the migrants here, they are taking away our rights and possibilities to live peacefully in our own country, and criminalizing us for speaking out against mass migration. We have to either accept sharia law taking over sweden, or start fighting back.
It's all planned and orchestrated this way anyway, when we are fighting for our survival and the third world hordes are killing us for crumbs and iphones we are easy to rule.
And useful idiots like yourself have taken the side of the globalist murderers by advocating free mass migration and open borders. Essentially burping out their propaganda of "tolerance" and doing their job for them. If "tolerance" means extinction of europeans in favor of followers of Islam - then FUCK tolerance!!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 30, 2018, 21:12:24
Except that some of these immigrants may have legitimate claims for seeking asylum, which need to be heard. The "Zero tolerance" policy instigated by Sessions in April is what commenced immediate separation of children from parents with no consideration whatsoever as to the legitimacy of their claim for asylum.

Equating this as being similar to having the state take care of a child should a parent be arrested for a crime is false equivalency, and a bad example. That child would be remanded to relatives. That child's parent would be reunited with his/her child the next day if, for example, he/she spent the night in jail for DUI. The parent, if held longer, would be able to communicate with his/her child. The child would not be sent across the country, say from Texas to New York, without the parent knowing, and be held incommunicado.

It's difficult to get some people to agree that removing children from parents in this way is a violation of human rights -- some people seem to want to argue that migrants are less human in some way, and thus not deserving of basic human respect and dignity. Datadavid, will refer to them as pests or vermin, as Donald Trump does, disregarding the fact that he completely misconstrues what is happening in his native country, and avoids confronting facts.

The Southern United States had some great years in terms of their economy, prior to 1865, but it is difficult to ignore the conditions there when assessing the Southern economy. In the same way, as I keep bringing up but that nobody seems to want to engage, the level of fearmongering, lying, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, self-enriching, and swindling being done by this administration will not be ignored by history, and shouldn't be ignored now.

Again, not a false equivalencly. These folks could have been reunited with their children as well, had they chose to leave the country.

You assume everyone has family, or even family that wants them. Many do not. They get shuffled around in foster care. If their parent can't make bail, and/or when found guilty and sentenced to time, they stay in foster care until that parent gets out and meets state guidelines to get them back. Such as a home, a job, etc.

But hey, it's cool, they're not illegal immigrants. We only get riled up over illegals getting separated for committing a crime.

Not to mention the time it takes to get documentation from another country showing that someone from another country is even related to someone here. You may remember the articles circulating a few months ago about the Obama admin handing kids over to human traffickers. Or, maybe you don't.

In event you don't. Here's an article on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9ff55deb353 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9ff55deb353)
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 00:33:17
Again, not a false equivalencly. These folks could have been reunited with their children as well, had they chose to leave the country.

You assume everyone has family, or even family that wants them. Many do not. They get shuffled around in foster care. If their parent can't make bail, and/or when found guilty and sentenced to time, they stay in foster care until that parent gets out and meets state guidelines to get them back. Such as a home, a job, etc.

But hey, it's cool, they're not illegal immigrants. We only get riled up over illegals getting separated for committing a crime.

Not to mention the time it takes to get documentation from another country showing that someone from another country is even related to someone here. You may remember the articles circulating a few months ago about the Obama admin handing kids over to human traffickers. Or, maybe you don't.

In event you don't. Here's an article on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9ff55deb353 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9ff55deb353)

So if you get a DUI or drug charge you can just leave the country and be reunited with your family?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 31, 2018, 00:36:34
So if you get a DUI or drug charge you can just leave the country and be reunited with your family?
Nope. They had an out not afforded to citizens. The vast majority chose not to take it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 00:43:47
Of course not. Why? Because once detained you aren't given the option of leaving the country. You are placed in a legal system and from there good luck. There is no data to support your claim.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/how-does-immigration-court-work
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/us/politics/due-process-undocumented-immigrants.html

Good thing Trump ended "catch and release." Welcome to America, land of the free.

Also, a little presumptuous to say "many do not" want their children. Is there some data to back that up?

Finally, Obama isn't the president. Move on.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 00:59:59
Never mind that by far the majority of illegal immigrants entered the country and overstayed their visa's. The fucking border and the bullshit narrative regarding people crossing over is the least of our problem, but here we are shitting in one hand and wishing in the other.

Trump's superlatives aren't working either.

https://scholarship.law.tamu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1743&context=facscholar
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/04/10/illegal-immigration-to-america-is-rising-again
https://cis.org/Arthur/Half-Illegal-Population-Are-Overstays
https://www.fairus.org/issue/legal-immigration/visa-overstayers
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-national-guard-immigration-20180410-story.html

We should build that wall 10ft higher...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 31, 2018, 01:04:52
Of course not. Why? Because once detained you aren't given the option of leaving the country. You are placed in a legal system and from there good luck. There is no data to support your claim.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/how-does-immigration-court-work
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/us/politics/due-process-undocumented-immigrants.html

Good thing Trump ended "catch and release." Welcome to America, land of the free.

Also, a little presumptuous to say "many do not" want their children. Is there some data to back that up?

Finally, Obama isn't the president. Move on.
There's a foster system chock full of children to support it.

Yes, they were given the option to leave, with their children. One of 50 different articles on it that popped up on this thing called Google.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/ (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/)



Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 01:08:14
There's a foster system chock full of children to support it.

Yes, they were given the option to leave, with their children. One of 50 different articles on it that popped up on this thing called Google.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/ (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/)

So what happened before Trump gave in to the negative press?

Quote
Under zero tolerance, immigration agents had been instructed to separate all children from parents caught crossing illegally. Trump reversed that decision with a June 20 executive order, but didn't provide a clear path toward reunification for more than 2,300 children who had already been separated.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 01:10:16
Oh wow!

Quote
The form U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are directed to read to detained parents instructs them to sign next to one of two lines: "I am requesting to reunite with my child(ren) for the purpose of repatriation to my country of citizenship," or "I am affirmatively, knowingly, and voluntarily requesting to return to my country of citizenship without my minor child(ren) who I understand will remain in the United States to pursue available claims of relief."

The agents are instructed to read the form in a language the immigrant understands, which usually means Spanish, but it can be hard to find Americans who know the indigenous languages spoken by many migrants.

So impressive.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 01:31:49
There's a foster system chock full of children to support it.

Yes, they were given the option to leave, with their children. One of 50 different articles on it that popped up on this thing called Google.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/ (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/03/trump-admin-gives-separated-parents-choice-leave-us-with-kids-or-without/23473955/)

That's your claim, not mine. The article you linked to says nothing about families not wanting their children.

Quote
Some of the proposals, like raising the bar for passing the initial interview for claiming asylum, have already been implemented. Other policies, like detaining "almost everyone coming over," have run into logistical difficulties.

Quote
NBC News has found that some women are separated from their children even if they are legally claiming asylum and not being referred for prosecution. In those cases, the children are kept in the same facility, but they are still separated for days without being told whether they will be reunited.

Your link, not mine.

Quote
There is no evidence to date that the new policy has deterred families from crossing between points of entry. The monthly totals decreased from 9,653 in April to 9,485 in May, the month the policy was enacted.

Sure we are ruining families, but the evidence shows it's effective, at least in terror.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-15/trump-is-deporting-fewer-immigrants-than-obama-did

Quote
I asked Leopold why Obama's peak years of enforcement hadn't spread as much fear or more — given the higher rates of arrest and deportation.

"Even during the worst days of the Obama crackdown," he said, "ICE used its discretion and applied common sense." Today, he said, the agency refuses to use either, while seeming to revel in "tearing apart families."

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 31, 2018, 12:23:45
Trump, Sessions, and the GOP leadership first defended the forced separation of children from their parents, then argued it wasn't their fault it was Obama's, then finally accepted that it was a bad policy but chiefly because it "didn't look good" or was "bad optics" to have photographs and video and reports of children in cages. A federal judge had to order them to reunite parents and children, and although there has been progress they missed the deadline for many people.

Some people seem to be stuck at stage 1 or 2 of the three steps Trump and GOP leadership have taken. Step 3 doesn't go far enough. For some reason it remains difficult to get people to unequivocally state that removing children from their parents in this was is a violation of human rights and dignity. There are already reports of reunified families with children that bear deep psychological scars from this policy that may affect them throughout their lives.

Since nobody wants to talk about racism (except for DD wearing it on his sleeve), I'll just leave this here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/30/opinion/inside-the-world-of-racist-science-fiction.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

"It is unlikely that Mr. Trump has read any of these books. But members of his staff undoubtedly have. His former aide Steve Bannon is a fan of “The Camp of the Saints” and refers to it often — in knowing, offhand ways that betray both his familiarity with racist literature and his awareness of his target audience’s reading habits... The point is not that there is a direct line between, say, “The Turner Diaries” and the Oval Office. Rather, it’s that the tropes that define the Trump administration’s rhetoric and policies — apocalyptic xenophobia, anti-Semitic conspiracies, racist fear-mongering — are also the tropes that define white-supremacist literature. To the hundreds of thousands of fans of Mr. Kendall, Ms. Williams and other writers, Mr. Trump must seem like a character out of racist central casting: a rule-breaking white knight who will stop at nothing to root out the conspiracies and take on their race’s enemies. No wonder the bond between Mr. Trump and the far right is so strong: Not only is he a hero out of their novels, but in supporting him, they have become heroes themselves."

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 31, 2018, 13:52:44
Nice opinion piece.

I used to read a ton of books with stories based in the lead up to, and during the Civil War. I assume that now falls under "racist literature" and by default, makes me racist, according to that guy.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Jul 31, 2018, 14:20:04
Nice opinion piece.

I used to read a ton of books with stories based in the lead up to, and during the Civil War. I assume that now falls under "racist literature" and by default, makes me racist, according to that guy.

I don't think you understand the article or are misreading it; I'm not sure how you would come to that conclusion, conflating stories that are about the antebellum South with those that actively promote racism in futuristic science fiction. Why not say "that's kind of fucked up that Steve Bannon, who advised Trump, would be a fan of that shit"? It shouldn't be hard to do.

By the way, the Washington Post reported yesterday that US intelligence agencies verified through satellite imagery that NK is currently building two new ICBMs. Of course if you believe Trump, the US intelligence agencies are out to destroy America and everything that is good with the world, the Washington Post is fake news, and Kim Jong Un is our friend, but that's your decision to make.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 14:35:35
Mike Pompeo was on the record a week ago saying that NK was making new nuclear fissile material. I.e. the kind of nuclear material primarily used in bombs.

It's a shame the Trump didn't send Rodman to negotiate the deal, perhaps Dennis could have gotten something binding.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Jul 31, 2018, 15:00:08
Speaking of futuristic Sci-Fi thrillers; If you have Netflix, check out their new original movie Extinction. Basically about genocide. Pretty good movie.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Jul 31, 2018, 15:18:56
I watched Annihlation the other day, it was pretty a decent Sci Fi thriller. I'll check Extinction out.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 01, 2018, 14:29:30
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/major-u-s-steel-expansion-touted-by-trump-not-happening/

Trump says 6 new plants are getting started, U.S. Steel says they aren't aware of that.

The outlook is tricky.

Quote
While doubtful of the longer-term picture for U.S. Steel, Bradford does expect it and its competitors to soon report robust quarterly results, thanks in large part to the price of steel rising 40 percent during the past six months.

Tariffs and the rise in steel prices are hurting business for American manufacturers who take the raw material and turn it into products such as pipes or nails-- some are pausing expansion plans, while others have been forced to lay off workers.

Manufacturers and end users make up a much larger portion of the economy. That means tariffs on raw materials, combined with retaliation from angry trading partners, may end up causing more harm than good. An estimate from consulting firm Trade Partnership forecast about 400,000 U.S. jobs lost versus 26,000 created as a result of the metal tariffs.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 01, 2018, 14:50:53
"An estimate from consulting firm Trade Partnership forecast about 400,000 U.S. jobs lost versus 26,000 created as a result of the metal tariffs."

Says it all. House of cards.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 01, 2018, 15:22:00
Interesting forecast.

On the machinist/metalworking groups I am in, everybody is busy as can be, myself included, and having trouble finding enough qualified people to hire. Two steel mills locally are adding jobs continuously to keep up with demand. Apprenticeship programs are on the rise to get youngsters into the trades.

I'm not necessarily saying they are wrong, but what they are saying, and the current climate in manufacturing don't seem to line up.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 01, 2018, 15:27:34
I think it's safe to say that we should wait and see. Forecasts being forecasts. That said, it's a little frustrating when Donnie just makes things up.

I know some of the import machine tool equipment I tried to buy got significantly more expensive a few weeks ago. I don't run day in and day out, mostly small scale R&D projects, but it hurt my bottom line, at least it will until I pass it on to the bottom line of my customers.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 01, 2018, 15:30:59
On another note; Wage growth has hit a 10 year high, and The Fed didn't raise interest rates today, and upgraded its economic outlook, which will lead to more spending.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 01, 2018, 17:17:27
On the subject of new steel mills opening; The CEO of NuCor was at Trump's rally thing the other night talking about the new plants they are opening. So, it may make sense that US Steel doesn't know about it. It's a different company.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 01, 2018, 18:36:47
Trump specifically claimed US Steel was building six plants, I haven't heard of the Nucor plant until googling. Sound like are building one plant in Florida.

Here's the link from the previous page, since you didn't read it.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/major-u-s-steel-expansion-touted-by-trump-not-happening/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-spending/us-consumer-spending-rises-wage-growth-slows-in-second-quarter-idUSKBN1KL1SR

Quote
wage growth slowed down

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/08/01/federal-reserve-interest-rates-steady-september-hike/873786002/

Quote
The Fed said inflation remains near its 2 percent annual target.

The Commerce Department said Tuesday the Fed’s preferred inflation measure edged up just modestly in June after reaching its goal earlier this year. That left unchanged both annual inflation, at 2.2 percent, and a core reading that strips out volatile food and energy items – which the Fed watches more closely – at 1.9 percent.

Still, the Fed expects core inflation to rise to 2.1 percent next year as unemployment continues to fall, pushing up wage growth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-finance-202/2018/08/01/the-finance-202-republicans-crow-about-wage-growth/5b608d3c1b326b0207955e83/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.679adc430667'

Quote
The results suggest that an economy firing on most cylinders is still failing to produce the kind of broad-based gains that Republicans have pledged to deliver through a sweeping tax cut and deregulation.

That could change: Some see more meaningful wage gains ahead as whatever slack that remains in the labor market works its way out. Tuesday’s report offered “another sign that the labor markets are tightening and that compensation is going up as employers compete for workers,” says Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum.

So wage growth is close to inflation, which doesn't seem too bad, but I'm not sure it's making America great again.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 01, 2018, 19:48:53
Wage growth and inflation are measured in tenths of percentage points. Inflation at 2.2 puts wage growth 6 tenths higher. Not as small as it seems just looking at numbers.

I'll have to look it back up later, but an article I read last night talked about unemployment being likely to drop to 3.5% by end of 2019, and the effect that will have on accelerating wage growth at a much faster rate with added competition for workers.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 01, 2018, 22:34:59
Cheepskate!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 02, 2018, 14:21:22
Apple became the first company to reach a $1,000,000,000,000 market valuation this morning.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 02, 2018, 16:53:29
Against the pleas of his lawyers, Trump is pushing for an interview with Mueller. Reminds me of the cartoon of Trump playing checkers against Putin playing chess.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 06, 2018, 21:35:46
And in what can only be described as the new normal of the regular news cycle, Steven Seagal was appointed by Russia to smooth over relations with the US (and you know Trump is going to love getting together with that guy), Trump admitted that the hotel meeting was about dirt on Hillary (after denying it for months), and Gates just threw Manafort (farther) under the bus. And in what one can only assume was a misunderstanding of rivers and streams, gravity, and the flow of water, Trump decries how Californians are just throwing water into the ocean.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 06, 2018, 21:42:16
I've been following the trial a bit.

Seems to be some conflicting stories on Gates. Obviously he cut a deal, and was expected to throw Manafort under the bus. Manafort's accountant said it was Gates providing the info to them. Manafort's lawyers have said they'll introduce evidence showing Gates to be the one hiding money, and embezzling money to boot.

I suppose that should shake out tomorrow.

Never been a fan of getting a deal on your crimes to testify against another's. How trustworthy is Gates having had admitted to lying and agreeing to testify against Manafort in exchange for a far smaller sentence. His accountant was also given immunity for knowingly submitting falsified tax returns.


Not saying Manafort is innocent. I don't know if he is, or he isn't.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 06, 2018, 22:09:40
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 06, 2018, 23:05:33
And in what one can only assume was a misunderstanding of rivers and streams, gravity, and the flow of water, Trump decries how Californians are just throwing water into the ocean.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why-does-california-let-billions-of-gallons-of-fresh-water-flow-straight-into-the-ocean/#495030bc517c

https://www.kqed.org/science/549358/california-reservoirs-are-dumping-water-in-a-drought-but-science-could-change-that
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 07, 2018, 00:24:06
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why-does-california-let-billions-of-gallons-of-fresh-water-flow-straight-into-the-ocean/#495030bc517c

https://www.kqed.org/science/549358/california-reservoirs-are-dumping-water-in-a-drought-but-science-could-change-that
3.8" of rainwater collected could provide half of LA's yearly water needs. That's interesting.

You'd think, in the midst of a multiyear drought, they'd consider doing something with that.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 07, 2018, 10:55:12
It's as if conservatives think those "California liberals" are just too stupid to know what to do with their own water.

Trump is playing to the conservative base, farmers in central California, who want more water diverted to them, as an aide acknowledged yesterday. But without thinking too deeply:

-- capturing rainwater is diverting water that feeds the ecosystem (rivers and streams). Just let them dry up? There are, obviously, human consequences (including economic) not just consequences for fish and other wildlife.

-- most firefighting is done with chemicals, not water.

-- diverting water from rivers and streams will dry out more areas and make them more prone to fire.

But we don't know what Trump was thinking because he won't clarify his position.

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: irk miller on Aug 07, 2018, 11:37:28
-- most firefighting is done with chemicals, not water.

Chemicals are mixed with water.  Water is the vehicle.  Phos-Chek, for example, is comprised of phosphates and sulfates, clay, and guar gum mixed into water. They come as a dry powder and need to be mixed like Kool-Aid.  Straight water is also used to saturate boundaries and to cool areas.   Most firefighting is done with water, not the other way around.

Also, it's pretty common knowledge there is significant controversy surrounding California water and has been for decades.  Not sure why you're trying to make Trump a villain in it all.   They've been mismanaging water resources for a long time.  Considering 95% of the water in Southern California is brought in via manmade viaducts from the Colorado river, I'd say it's a legitimate problem. You keep bringing rivers and streams into the conversation, but the ones within the state's borders only provide 5% of the water to the region, which is desert. 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 07, 2018, 12:55:38
Also, it's pretty common knowledge there is significant controversy surrounding California water and has been for decades.  Not sure why you're trying to make Trump a villain in it all.   They've been mismanaging water resources for a long time.  Considering 95% of the water in Southern California is brought in via manmade viaducts from the Colorado river, I'd say it's a legitimate problem. You keep bringing rivers and streams into the conversation, but the ones within the state's borders only provide 5% of the water to the region, which is desert.

Never said water isn't controversial in California. And people capturing water might be part of a solution, but it's not as simple as saying "fill your cisterns and the problem is solved -- you people are mismanaging by not doing so."

I'm making Trump a villain in it? Trump, as the president, injected himself into a conversation over forest fires and water by making a politically motivated and uninformed statement which he refuses to clarify. Trump regularly injects himself into conversations with politically motivated and uniformed statements which he refuses to clarify. In the shitshow that is US politics under Trump, my original post was simply pointing out that in the past couple of days more amazing/frightening news has come out, including Trump's tweet about water and firefighting.

And you misunderstand my statement about rivers and streams. I'm not talking about in-state rivers and streams that provide water -- I know that most of California's water comes from the Colorado (I lived in Arizona for 20 years). But the rivers and streams that do exist in California, and that are fed by rainwater and other sources, flow into the Pacific. Collecting rainwater will have unintended consequences for existing watersheds and the ecosystem, including fisheries, by depriving them of water. It's that simple.   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 07, 2018, 13:00:09
To be fair, Trump brought himself into the conversation. If he didn't want to be criticized, he probably should have kept his vapid rhetoric to himself, as we know that's easier said than done in his case.

Politics aside, CA certainly could use a water overhaul as you mention. That's likely a many billion dollar effort to effectively transform that situation, but it would be good for labor there. For the 6th largest economy in the world it's not too far fetched to consider.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 07, 2018, 13:05:50
To be fair, Trump brought himself into the conversation. If he didn't want to be criticized, he probably should have kept his vapid rhetoric to himself, as we know that's easier said than done in his case.

Politics aside, CA certainly could use a water overhaul as you mention. That's likely a many billion dollar effort to effectively transform that situation, but it would be good for labor there. For the 6th largest economy in the world it's not too far fetched to consider.

California is the highest taxed state in the country. They ought to have a little change for such projects.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 07, 2018, 14:16:59
California is the highest taxed state in the country. They ought to have a little change for such projects.

No, New York is. California is 10th, in combined measures, or 4th or 5th in terms of state sales tax.

California brings in the most revenue by state taxes in the country, but that's because it has, by far, the highest population.

I agree, however -- there must be a better solution, and they should devote some resources to it. Perhaps Trump has a plan?   
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 07, 2018, 15:00:59
Seeing articles that have them at 1, with 13+%, one at 10, at 9+%, and a few in between.

Point being, they bring in a ton of money. They shouldn't be having issues like this.

They keep saying desalinization is too expensive. You have no water, though. Might want to consider spending a few bucks on it, when you have ocean for the entirety of your state line.

Meanwhile, San Fran is estimated to spend $305M on 7,499 known homeless people this year. A twinge over $40K a pop. More than a good many people gross a year, much less take home. What does the city get in return? To hire more people to clean the literal tons of shit off the streets.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 13, 2018, 23:41:50
a personal story that some may find interesting: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/13/stephen-miller-is-an-immigration-hypocrite-i-know-because-im-his-uncle-219351
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 14, 2018, 19:46:20
We should find out the outcome of the Manafort trial by the end of the week.

Homeboy very well may walk.

Gates told the jury he stole a ton of money from Manafort. His CPA told them that Gates provided all the info for Manafort's taxes. The bank employee told them they knew the loan, for $16M, was questionable, and was questioned, but the CEO of the bank pushed it through hoping for a job in the White House.

Then again, maybe he doesn't walk.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 17, 2018, 13:54:37
Waiting on the Manafort decision, but it doesn't look good for him when his lawyers' defense is essentially "you were looking for other stuff and uncovered millions of dollars of corruption, so why are we even here?"

Another week for the books though, that's for sure. Trump strips Brennan of his clearance. Weeks ago the administration claimed it was because he was profiting from it, now Trump declares its essentially political payback.

And perhaps the saddest element is waiting for the release of a tape that has the president using racial epithets, and witnessing a debate over whether that will help him or hurt him -- with both being entirely possible. That kind of shit has gotten people banned from this site, but it might just be OK language for the president. Amazing. And I'm guessing few people doubt that he actually uses that word in private -- or on the set of his TV show. Incredible.

Jared Kushner is being sued by tenants of a building he owned as most of the rent controlled occupants were put under miserable conditions for months at a time.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Aug 17, 2018, 16:30:03
At least the parade was canceled...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 17, 2018, 17:07:15
Officially it was postponed. Hopefully that means cancelled.

Forgot something. The Queen of Soul died yesterday. It wasn't unexpected, but that doesn't make it any less sad. Aretha Franklin's music and life were amazing, and she should be seen as an American treasure. Trump barely acknowledged her although he emphasized that she worked for him -- which is a little spurious, but revealing. The way he talks about women and people of color in general is revealing. It seems there's been a shift from his defenders saying "he's not racist" to "it's Ok for him to be racist."
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Aug 17, 2018, 19:34:54
Officially it was postponed. Hopefully that means cancelled.

Forgot something. The Queen of Soul died yesterday. It wasn't unexpected, but that doesn't make it any less sad. Aretha Franklin's music and life were amazing, and she should be seen as an American treasure. Trump barely acknowledged her although he emphasized that she worked for him -- which is a little spurious, but revealing. The way he talks about women and people of color in general is revealing. It seems there's been a shift from his defenders saying "he's not racist" to "it's Ok for him to be racist."


If it’s okay for the president then it must be okay for everyone else to be racist, right? Right?

Slippery slopes.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 17, 2018, 21:47:01
“Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.”

Retired Navy Adm. William McRaven
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 18, 2018, 21:53:47
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 19, 2018, 23:49:17
The fun never stops!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 21, 2018, 04:20:19
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 21, 2018, 17:57:44
Guilty on 8 counts of 18.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 21, 2018, 19:36:19
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 21, 2018, 19:41:58
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 23, 2018, 00:52:23
The President has been implicated in a crime that is an impeachable offense. This thread has taken some interesting turns, although there don't seem to be any full-throated Trump supporters sticking around. There certainly are still in the US -- the surreal rally in a small town in West Virginia where he rallied his supporters to chant "lock her up" within hours after one of his deputies was found guilty of fraud and another pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations. Like her or not, more than $100 million was spent trying to prosecute Hillary Clinton and nothing stuck. So far six Americans and one Dutchman have been accused and found or pleaded guilty to charges, and 26 Russians remain charged. And yet it appears that plenty of Americans believe that there is some kind of vast conspiracy playing out against an innocent Trump.

Arguments about a strong economy or "Trump being Trump" -- still valid enough to look the other way? There was a variety of things that led to his presidency, but people who supported this person needed to either agree with or get over some pretty virulent and toxic stuff -- accusations of philandering and sexual assault, racist statements, personal attacks, dubious business practices, the list goes on. These were the kind of things that people opposed to him pointed out during the nomination process and during the campaign. I heard an argument against impeaching the president because it would only serve to divide the country further, yet it's hard to imagine a more divided country than it is already now, and it would be a blow against the law and the constitution were people to argue that he should get a pass because of dividedness. People supported Nixon right up until the last minute -- and the parallels, even in presidential discourse, are interesting -- but one would be hard pressed to find anyone today who would argue that Nixon shouldn't have stepped down because it would be divisive.

And yet... who knows. A Republican controlled legislature that hasn't shown much spine won't help. Midterm elections might switch one or both houses. It seems like a process that has been grinding away for the entire term is nearing completion, but it's felt that way before as well.

It just continues to seem surreal.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: datadavid on Aug 23, 2018, 01:11:00
Would be so cool if he walked. The squeal of butthurt asswipes might be loud enough to end the world. Or if he gets locked up trumpers will unleash a civil war that lasts for 100 years. Then we will start speaking russian here. And everyone will forget the World Bully ever existed.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 23, 2018, 01:34:40
It just continues to seem surreal.

Indeed!

Crazy
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 23, 2018, 10:01:34
I think a lot of people don't really care about Manafort, because it had nothing to do with the Russia investigation. It was from 2005-2014.

Cohen, we'll see how that plays out.

Obama's campaign was fined $375,000 in 08 for violating campaign finance law. Obviously, some differences. We'll see how it plays out. Likely a fine.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 23, 2018, 11:05:26
I think a lot of people don't really care about Manafort, because it had nothing to do with the Russia investigation. It was from 2005-2014.

Cohen, we'll see how that plays out.

Obama's campaign was fined $375,000 in 08 for violating campaign finance law. Obviously, some differences. We'll see how it plays out. Likely a fine.

I think people do care about Manafort, except for people who are going to stick with Trump -- or swallow bile and give him the benefit of the doubt -- until the ship sinks. The president has surrounded himself with criminals, I mean "the best," you know, to "drain the swamp." And the president has been implicated in the crime.

And you're going to try to compare the Obama campaign being fined for not notifying the FEC for $1000 or more donations in 48 hours, a violation that almost everyone agreed at the time was relatively minor and had no influence on the election, to paying hush money to a porn star in order to influence the campaign, then lying about it repeatedly? That's the definition of Whataboutism.

I have to be honest, I just don't get it -- although I think a choice of sources for news definitely is a factor.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 23, 2018, 11:20:26
Tax evasion and such is one of those things. The federal government, the IRS, didn't know about it. In Manaforts case, for over a decade. How would anyone else?

I did get a laugh out of one of Cohen's charges. Failed to report the $30,000 profit made on a purse he sold online.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 23, 2018, 11:39:03
Tax evasion and such is one of those things. The federal government, the IRS, didn't know about it. In Manaforts case, for over a decade. How would anyone else?

I did get a laugh out of one of Cohen's charges. Failed to report the $30,000 profit made on a purse he sold online.

I think everyone else knows about it now because it's been in the headlines of newspapers and the lead story on the news. Tax evasion isn't just "one of those things." I pay my taxes and try to reduce what I have to pay, but I don't cheat. And I'm not wealthy; I could use some extra $. Maybe in their world I'm a "sucker." And Manafort was Trump's campaign chairman.

The purse charge is kind of funny. Out of curiosity, what do you think of the other $4 million that he didn't declare, avoiding some $1.4 million in taxes? What do you think about his admission that Stormy Daniels was paid off to avoid influencing the presidential campaign, and that payoff was lied about from Cohen and Trump?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 23, 2018, 12:26:31
I meant one of those things, as in nobody knows about it until they do. He got away with it for nearly a decade.

The FBI was investigating him as early as 2014. I didn't know about it then, did you?


Obviously, tax evasion is wrong. As far as what Cohen is saying. Maybe he's telling the truth. Maybe he's trying to save his own ass. If the truth, I'm sure there's some evidence to support it. He was a high powered attorney, he'd of known to hold on to things for a rainy day.

Time shall tell.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 24, 2018, 19:34:04
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 27, 2018, 16:30:58
If anyone had any doubts left about how much of a narcissistic, entitled, thin-skinned monster the current occupant of the White House is, I am guessing his behavior in the wake of John McCain's death has put them to rest. Seriously, how shitty can you get? I (likely obviously) didn't agree with a lot of McCain's policies while I lived in AZ, but the man was a war hero and served in the Senate for decades, working across the aisle.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 27, 2018, 16:39:00
NAFTA struck a fatal, and a much deserved, blow today.

New agreement in place with Mexico. Canada's turn to bend over now.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 27, 2018, 17:15:03
Kudos for ignoring the elephant in the room.

But before the backslapping starts, the proposed deal hasn't gone through, and Mexico and American industry representatives want Canada at the table. Maybe there will be an improvement in the terms of Nafta, maybe the deal will go through, maybe it won't, but to argue that getting another country to "bend over," as though international trade is a zero-sum game, is... Trumpian, to say the least. International trade thrives on mutual benefit, not zero-sum outlooks.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 27, 2018, 17:24:13
What'd Trump do, in regards to McCain?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 27, 2018, 17:30:44
Have a look around. It's pretty much expected behavior, but doesn't make it any more petty and shitty.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 27, 2018, 17:36:16
I assume you're talking about the flag.

He followed U.S. Flag Code. Day of death, and day after.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 27, 2018, 17:46:09
Out of curiosity, can I ask where you source your news?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 27, 2018, 17:53:51
Out of curiosity, can I ask where you source your news?
Everywhere.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 27, 2018, 18:18:18
So I shouldn't have to tell you about Trump's reactions to McCain's death in general and not just the flag, nor the across-the-aisle condemnation of the application of common rules for what most people agree was a particularly uncommon man. Trump, by the way, reversed his order on the flag under pressure from Republicans, leaving you and likely a smattering of other people defending Trump's initial reaction as "US flag code" and ignoring common practice. Not even Trump stood by Trump's order on the flag. You'd also have to have your head in the sand -- or not really be getting your news from everywhere -- to be unaware of the history of slights Trump, a man who dodged the draft because of "bone spurs" but enabled by his wealth and privilege, has levelled at McCain, whose service and sacrifice doesn't need to be repeated here because you already know it.

John McCain, according to Trump, wasn't a war hero. "I like people who weren't captured."

Trump didn't mention John McCain's name until today, under pressure from Republicans and others. He sat stone faced with arms crossed as reporters asked him about McCain.

But hey, some people are gonna justify riding the Trump train no matter how shitty it gets, and refuse to admit how shitty Trump's behavior has been. Pretty amazing.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 27, 2018, 18:33:46
I didn't defend Trump. Simply stated the flag code was properly observed. It is what it is. Is it typical practice to sign a Presidential Proclamation extending it, most of the time, but not always.

If I didn't like somebody, I probably wouldn't go out of my way, either.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 27, 2018, 19:53:46
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: doc_rot on Aug 28, 2018, 14:52:26
https://theintercept.com/2018/08/27/hold-the-plaudits-john-mccains-2008-campaign-paved-the-way-for-donald-trump/
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 28, 2018, 16:06:37
The left hated McCain until 1.5 years ago. Much of what is said about Trump, in regards to racism, was said about McCain. The first time he spoke in opposition of Trump, he became beloved by all (the left).
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 28, 2018, 16:46:19
I didn't defend Trump. Simply stated the flag code was properly observed.

Forgive me, but this disingenuous equivocating, and you know it.

The left hated McCain until 1.5 years ago. Much of what is said about Trump, in regards to racism, was said about McCain. The first time he spoke in opposition of Trump, he became beloved by all (the left).

As I stated earlier, I disagreed with most of McCain's policies, and didn't think much of his behavior as well. That doesn't preclude granting respect to someone after his death based on his personal history.

McCain also certainly had issues with race, but nowhere near the level of Trump. McCain once publicly scolded a woman who said she couldn't trust Obama because he was an Arab; I can't imagine Trump doing the same.

If you're going to throw away any previous convictions or sensible thinking and refuse to think critically about Trump, or god forbid criticize him, just own it.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 28, 2018, 17:52:05
Maybe I am incorrectly remembering him calling folks of a certain race, a term akin to the N word here, publicly. Refusing to apologize, and stating he would continue to call them that " 'Til the day I die." Didn't he also call his wife the big C, also publicly?

Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Aug 28, 2018, 18:21:19
Maybe I am incorrectly remembering him calling folks of a certain race, a term akin to the N word here, publicly. Refusing to apologize, and stating he would continue to call them that " 'Til the day I die." Didn't he also call his wife the big C, also publicly?

He certainly did call his wife a cunt, by all accounts. Not racism, but nasty nonetheless. And he referred to his captors in North Vietnam as gooks, and said he would continue to refer to them until the day he died. Both absolutely shameful. I guess after five years or so of brutal torture at the hands of North Vietnamese captives, one can imagine not letting that go, which doesn't make it right. Was he referring to all Vietnamese? I don't think so, but you tell me. I for one am not going to play the who's-more-racist game with you. I'm just a little puzzled at your inability to criticize Trump for some seriously awful behavior and decisions.

 
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 29, 2018, 18:22:24
and the circus continues ...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 31, 2018, 20:01:13
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 04, 2018, 18:33:59
The OrangeOne has been a boon to the publishing world!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 05, 2018, 19:06:08
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 07, 2018, 09:16:13
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 07, 2018, 23:47:16
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 10, 2018, 07:42:01
Newspapers in Oz have real news not fake news!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Luugo86 on Sep 10, 2018, 11:03:17
lol
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: farmer92 on Sep 10, 2018, 12:40:28
The real take away here is that holding in your farts will cause the fart to come out in your breath!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 10, 2018, 13:47:13
Why fart and waste it when you can burp and taste it?
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 14, 2018, 23:44:15
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: carnivorous chicken on Sep 17, 2018, 10:30:26
For those who put up with his garbage because they think he's making progress on important issues, for example North Korea:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/16/world/asia/trump-north-korea-nuclear.html?action=click&module=In%20Other%20News&pgtype=Homepage&action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

Expected reply from Trumpistas: "Fake news!" Of course Trump knows more than the American intelligence community.

“I’m shocked at how superficial things have been,” said Jung H. Pak, the C.I.A.’s mission leader for North Korea until she left last year for the Brookings Institution. “I think the North Koreans smell dysfunction and they see dysfunction in the president’s tweets and his compliments and his willingness to meet again.”
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 17, 2018, 21:28:22
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 18, 2018, 17:41:26
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Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 18, 2018, 17:42:42
!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 18, 2018, 21:28:50
Stormy's certainly hit the lottery this year.

From party favor to the rich, to being rich herself. I guess, you could say she's slept her way to the top.

I bet Monica's wondering where it all went wrong for her.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 21, 2018, 11:21:50
I bet Monica's wondering where it all went wrong for her.

That one's easy. Monica never wanted to go public. Linda Tripp took care of that for her.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: Sav0r on Sep 21, 2018, 19:00:49
The smear job on Rosenstein has begun. He'll be fired after midterms just like Session's. I've never cared for Session's but his recent ability to deal with petulance in a some what dignified manner has given me a speck of respect for him.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: teazer on Sep 21, 2018, 21:19:42
Agreed.
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 22, 2018, 22:26:12
Happy families!
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 24, 2018, 04:00:52
Toast ...
Title: Re: "the Mooch"
Post by: J-Rod10 on Sep 24, 2018, 06:15:46
Naturally, Stormy Daniel's attorney is representing a third about to step forward with allegations.

This is the new normal as far as political battles go.