Rickman CR parts sourcing, rear wheel spoke hub manufacturer, etc?

Chuck78

Been Around the Block
I just hauled home 600 miles one way an abandoned old Rickman CR900 (1000?) project from Georgia, that was being built I believe by the late John Cordona of Fours 'N More fame (they built many custom bikes featured in old vintage motorcycle magazines in the 80's). The owner passed away before finising the frame repairs and modifications according to the shop that has had this in storage since then for many many years, and due to repairing the typical pre-Predator frame cracks at the headstock lower cradle tube braze joints, the serial number tag was removed to braze on several reinforcing gussets in this area, the Kawasaki engine mounts were modified, deleted, and/or relocated to add Suzuki GS1100E engine mounts. I got this with the original swingarm, a custom cromoly swingarm, a Morris rear mag, sprocket, and rotor, the original AP Lockheed (AP Racing) rear brake setup, a nicely reupholstered seat done by Corbin with "John Cordona, job #______, Fours n More" on sticker tags on the underside. Also most of the rearsets and extra parts, a solo (long stretched version 1975+) steel fuel tank missing it's fiberglass cover, and a misc box of old motor mount brackets and new custom made brackets.


I have found a few places that offer most fiberglass body parts and fiberglass tanks for them, the guy in India that makes the repro polished aluminum stretched solo seat gas tanks, and sources of decals. I have not found anyone who makes the reproduction stretched solo seat gas tank covers for the 1975+ models that have the steel fuel cell with the fiberglass cover. The no longer maintained Rickman.be website has a photo of a reproduction for sale for 200 Euro, but the email bounces and the site seems to have been defunct for some time. Airtech and one or two places in England/Australia/etc seem to sell the stuff as well. Just looking for that cover though...

AP Racing (formerly AP Lockheed) still manufacture basically the same brakes, and have parts for the identical looking originals.
Rickman Motorcycles lists the chain adjusting swingarm pivot mounting washers on their website parts list still, but I have yet to recieve an email reply from them to buy some, and Tom from Rice Paddy said he heard back from them but they told him to try and get them from some place in the US that never returned his calls...

I really want to find one of these so my original fuel tank doesn't go to waste, and so that I don't have to buy a used or new fiberglass tank and worry about Ethanol eating it, or worry about crashing and cracking it, leading to fuel on hot exhaust or ignited by sparks! The reason the all glass tanks were outlawed in England in 1975...

Anyone know where this repro came from, and if they are still available?
cr_03.jpg


Also looking for tips on who manufactured the wire spoke wheel hubs, PARTICULARLY THE REAR. I have read many times that they are Borrani alloy shouldered rims, but never a mention of the hubs other than "Borrani wheels." Were they aluminum, or magnesium hubs? The photos I have seen up close show a straight spoke type hub, no 90 degree elbow bend to wrap through the hub flange and cause a weak spot for the spoke to break. This is all I have:
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There are several sources of tank decals, so that is plus. I believe it is sonrier that makes the custom speedo/tach face decals from here that makes the decals.
 
I was planning to make this more of a performance oriented rider than a museum piece, since I am missing so much of the original Rickman stuff (wheels, entire front end, bodywork, etc...), and since the frame has been cracked and then repaired and then lots of additional bracing added and the engine mounts reconfigured to mount a Suzuki GS1100E engine, plating stripped off in places to add all of this. This is perfect for me, as I am a complete GS fanatic, love vintage bikes and their stylings, but love a serious performing and handling road machine to ride in the Appalachian Foothills just southeast of me, and in the mountains and hills of West Virginia a 3-6 hours away. I demand the best performance out of my vintage bikes, and a Rickman frame is even better than a fairly good handling stock GS frame.

I was planning to use a set of GS wheels that I have laced with 18" vintage shouldered dimpled DID alloy rims in 2.50 front and 3.50 rear. Problem is, the GS rear axle is 20mm and the Rickman is from nearest I can tell 11/16"!!!! Calipers said about .685" or 17.4mm on both the tight fitting axle bores in the swingarm as well as the o.d. on the axle. 11/16" is .6875", maybe my calipers are just slightly off or something, but it seemed a bit short of 11/16" but closer to a standard size than a metric size.

I suppose I could have my machinist friends make a spacer sleeve to go from 17.4mm i.d. to 20mm o.d. to adapt the GS hub and spacers to the Rickman axle and swingarm, but it's going to be a little tedious to make on a lathe due to depth and only 1.3mm wall thickness. I could do this, and then run a lightweight floating rear rotor off of a 89-ish Suzuki 1100 Katana same as my other bike, and just custom make a reproduction brake hanger to fit this 275mm rotor vs the 10" / 254mm heavy cast rotor (cool looking though!) that came with the Morris mag and appears to be an original Rickman piece.

I would like to get the original hub info and search for one, but I may end up trying to adapt the metric Suzuki hub to the SAE axle that the Rickman swinger requires. No way would I consider boring out the swingarm to even a mere 18mm! And I doubt I'd have much luck sourcing a bearing with a metric o.d. and an 11/16" i.d., and then I'd still have to have all kinds of custom machine work done for the spacers!
 
I'll likely build it as an 894cc 11:1 GS750 engine with head work and Megacycle .380 lift cams, but the GS1100E engine mounts are there, and that is the ultimate in vintage japanese horsepower, still one of the top 2 or 3 most popular vintage drag bike engines... That's A LOT of power though, I think the 894cc route will be best for me and cost about the same, as I have 3 or so engines here to rebuild, but will have to buy custom JE Pistons and $500 in cams and valve springs. Versus buying a $$$$ GS1100E engine and rebuilding it mostly stock but with maybe some aftermarket pistons bored into it, and stiffer valve springs in case I ever decided to go with bigger cams. That would be the ULTIMATE, but I don't think I need the temptation of even more speed! I think I will leave the GS1100E mounts on the frame, and add a second lower mount on the left side for where the GS750/1000 engines would bolt. I believe the front and rear mounts are the same between all the models, but the lower mounts are several inches forward on the GS1100E.

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Well the company in Australia, Classic Motorcycle Fiberglass, very quickly and cheerfully got back to me on their fiberglass parts, as they mentioned on their website that they make all Rickman CR900/1000 bodywork pieces (but only list a few of them on their site), and THEY DO MAKE THE REPRO TANK COVERS!
I really wanted that long solo seat polished aluminum tank, but maybe I can afford that next year after I get the rest of the bike done. I'd like to just get that up front but since I have the steel fuel cell setup, I can get that running for much cheaper and still have something that is very much work selling to another person who finds an old abandoned Rickman frame missing lots of it's original parts, IF I ever do get the aluminum tank. Not sure the aluminum one is an easy direct bolt on either anyhow, as it is marketed for many stock bikes, although I have seen photos of them on real Rickman frames as well. I was wondering how they would sit on the Rick, and if they had the same tank strap hooks, or if you are going to have to go and get hooks etc TIG welded to your $700 tank that is not a direct fit (I am speculating, maybe it is, ebay sellers are not responding, have to find the guy's website that makes them)


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michael jones <motumbi@hotkey.net.au>
Today at 9:16 PM
To Chuck
G'day Chuck, we do all of those CR options. Long tank (cover) is AU$185, solo seat to suit is AU$200 bare (without upholstery pad), inner rear guard (fender) is AU$65, front guard is AU$85, side covers are AU$170 the pair,
cheers for now!
Mick

http://classic-motorcycle-fiberglass.com/gallery/guards/Rickman_CR900_inner_rear.htm
http://classic-motorcycle-fiberglass.com/gallery/guards/Rickman_CR_front_guard.htm
http://classic-motorcycle-fiberglass.com/gallery/bodywork/Rickman_CR900_side_covers.htm

NOTE: Australian dollars prices are about 30% higher than US dollars, so the tank cover works out to be about $130 USD + shipping

Geeto67 from many forums has told me to watch out on the aluminum tanks, as many are copies of the Rickman British twin long solo tanks so same appearance but narrower for a 2 cyl brit engine'd frame. some of them are made for the four cylinder bikes, however. Just have to figure out which ones. I did not realize there were many different manufacturers of them. A Google image search quickly turns that up.
 
As if a shiny nickeled frame wasn't enough!
http://www.thetankshop.com/ (Scotland)
much better looking than the shape of the fiberglass long tank setup, I might add...
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VERY PRICEY, but Wilcox offers an alumimun Rickman tail section and seat pan as well
http://www.wilcoxmetal.com/images/rickmantankseat.jpg
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http://www.tabclassics.com/product.php?id=81
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AP Lockheed rear "Classic" master cylinder:
https://www.apracing.com/product_details/motorcycle/classic_range/classic_master_cylinders/rear-cp2232-90.aspx
Note - their pdf download data sheet says that the rebuild kit for the originals that look just like this are actually a different part number, not shown on this page
cp2232.jpg


AP Lockheed Classic calipers:
https://www.apracing.com/product_details/motorcycle/brake_calipers/solo_and_classic_machines_plus_sidecar_2_piston_caliper/cp2696-38e0.aspx
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They have the classic range of master cylinders for the fronts as well but since I do not have any front brakes, I'll leave it to someone else to point out which ones they are.

EDIT - their 2014 motorcycle catalog is actually MUCH MUCH BETTER if you are looking for parts than what the product pages are, but the product pages do have cad drawings of every dimension on them if you need that.
http://www.apracing.com/%5Cdrawings/2014%20Product%20Catalogue/2014%20Motorcycle.pdf
 
Geeto67, the tab classics website shows the only underside view of any of the tanks that I've seen, does this look like a fit for the 4cyl CR frames?

Interesting half circle recesses in front of the fuel taps, not seen on my steel 4cyl cr900 fuel tank.

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(In another thread he pointed out that a lot of the aluminum tanks are narrower replicas for the British twin Rickman's )
 
The hubs look like Talon hubs, but could be wrong, they wee popular back in the late seventies / eighties for custom builds in the UK, assuming that's where they were sourced from.

The Tank shop have a very long waiting list, around 40 weeks last time I looked, I've had tanks made by both The Tank shop (visited his workshop more than once) and TAB (they made the Tank on my Norley), and they both make high quality tanks.

If you want to go down the alloy tank route, I'd suggest you email TAB with your questions/concerns, I'm sure they can help. They had a stand a recent show here in the UK.. very tempting..
 

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If your wanting alloy seat and tank making try emailing Paul at one off welding & engineering .He's in the UK .
 
https://www.speedandsport.com/index.php/parts/frame-parts/chain-adjuster-set-rickman/

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Since Rickman-motorcycles.Com in the UK haven't responded to my inquiry about the "Chain Adjusters (complete set) £38" that they list on their website but have no online shopping cart and only an overseas telephone # for ordering, I may have to cough up $115 for this set of chain adjuster eccentric washers from Speed&Sport who have a lot of Rickman mx parts, says these fit several models and Rickman road bikes.
 
So this bike had a set of 38mm 16" wheel 86 Ninja forks on it. Not in my top picks, so I ditched the forks but still have the triples in the frame. Based on the 11/16" rear axle & 254mm - 10" even - rear brake rotor, I am assuming the Rickman's were built primarily with standard SAE measurements. That really got me wondering about the steering bearing conversion difficulty.

The set that's in there now is a tapered needle roller bearing setup that is matched up with the Rickman frame and a metric Ninja/GPZ ZX6 triple, & seems to be a perfect fit. Anyone have any advice to add here in this department? I think this will be the last challenging issue to deal with in adapting other parts to this bike or finding placement parts for the existing stuff.

I am getting a set of late model Honda 41mm cartridge forks that work very well with my proposed wheels and brakes, and should be the right height for this frame, and are fully supported by Racetech. hopefully fitting them won't be too terribly difficult with the help of allballs bearing conversions.
 
I should have read further on the Tank Shop's (Scotland) website, they eliminate any doubts of Wethersfield their tank fits the British rickman twins or the Japanese 4cyl CR's:

Rickman 900 Kawasaki
with Monza Cap and
2 1/4 inch petrol tap bosses
In Stock
£450
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DELIVERY CHARGES
These are the approximate postage and packaging charges for one tank to the following areas:

USA, Canada £90
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece £55
France, Germany, Denmark, £50
Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg £45
Rest of Europe £65
Far East, Australasia, £110
Britain £25 (next day delivery)
Channel Islands £25
Republic of Ireland £40
 
From another forum:
jalsteve;340040 said:
Make sure he has one on the shelf - He usually doesn't and his delivery time is huge. Also his tanks weigh a ton, definitely not race as the gauge of alloy is way to heavy and quality is patchy.

Hmmmmm....... $835 shipped to USA... They sure are great looking though. But maybe the fiberglass repro cover onto the original Rickman steel inner tank will suffice. I can't imagine a steel tank plus fiberglass cover weighing much less than a heavy gauge beautiful aluminum tank anyways.

I'll wait to hear back from the tank shop as well. Maybe I can get then to custom make one for me without the half circle indents underneath, if they are better quality that is. Great to deal with so far, the tank shop was.
 
Chuck78 said:
I would like to get the original hub info and search for one, but I may end up trying to adapt the metric Suzuki hub to the SAE axle that the Rickman swinger requires. No way would I consider boring out the swingarm to even a mere 18mm! And I doubt I'd have much luck sourcing a bearing with a metric o.d. and an 11/16" i.d., and then I'd still have to have all kinds of custom machine work done for the spacers!

I do have some original parts, shoot some photo's for you for a better view on them. Front hub is like the rear with single mounting flange, this front hub looks to be magnesium, they are also made in aloy like the rear hub. they are also m a. Forks are 38mm Betor.

Seen this ?: http://home.base.be/racinjan1204/rickman/rickman_home.htm Parts for sale + info on rickman cr




Rear wheel:



front wheel:




front end:



 
This is an extremely cool project. I never realized that they make a longer version of the steel tank/glass cover. I have a setup like this myself with the shorter tank and 2-up seat that I acquired for a CB750 project. I am doing a recreation of the Rickman CR but with my own twist and lots of one-off parts. I have been posting pretty heavily over on the SOHC 4 Honda forum, and will be moving my thread over here soon.

I look forward to more updates!!
 
harton said:
I do have some original part
Seen this ?: http://home.base.be/racinjan1204/rickman/rickman_home.htm Parts for sale + info on rickman cr

Rear wheel:


Oh wow... I don't suppose that rear wheel is for sale, is it??? If only the front were a dual disc.... beautiful hubs. And rims. I wonder if the bolt pattern for the rear rotor is the same as the one I have here on this rear Morris mag?


I had tried emailing that contact info on the website that you linked, but the address was invalid and the mail bounced. Also at that time just a few days ago, none of the photos worked, they all showed up as a black&white photo of a guy riding a wheelie on a vintage twin, every single pic. I see that is fixed now it seems. Great news!
 
Chuck78 said:
Oh wow... I don't suppose that rear wheel is for sale, is it??? If only the front were a dual disc.... beautiful hubs. And rims. I wonder if the bolt pattern for the rear rotor is the same as the one I have here on this rear Morris mag?


I had tried emailing that contact info on the website that you linked, but the address was invalid and the mail bounced. Also at that time just a few days ago, none of the photos worked, they all showed up as a black&white photo of a guy riding a wheelie on a vintage twin, every single pic. I see that is fixed now it seems. Great news!

Sorry, i'm not ready to part with these, took me awhile to find them.
Last rear wheel i have seen for sale was on ebay.com a few months ago: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-RICKMAN-CR-Road-Race-Rear-Wheel-with-Borrani-alloy-rim-and-brake-rotor-/231656367759

Any photo's from your Morris Mag? The rickman rear disc is 253mm diameter, 17mm offset, 113mm center hole diameter, 119mm bolt center. ( front disc has larger diameter )

Sorry to hear the website links not working, i just noticed it's a older site, possibe not updated !
 
harton said:
Any photo's from your Morris Mag? The rickman rear disc is 253mm diameter, 17mm offset, 113mm center hole diameter, 119mm bolt center

Rear disc on the Morris mag is 113mm center hole diameter, 127mm pcd 6-bolt circle (center to center of opposing bolts), I measured about 254mm diameter which is 10" exactly, and 17mm total offset. I'm never really to certain with these parts if I should be measuring in metric or standard!

this definitely seems to be an exact Rickman rotor, but I think your bolt circle diameter measurement is off, or maybe you are measuring from the edge of the holes inside to inside on the smallest distance, as I do get just a hair over 119mm going that route, & 113mm center with 119mm bolt circle center would give you enough metal to have only 3mm from inside edge to center of bolt hole, so you must have the same pcd

Pardon the neglected condition of this rotor. It would be a very nice piece cleaned up, and I do plan to try and use it, even if I have to use a non-Rickman hub, I will consider machining an adapter to mount it. Pardon my fractured wrist/brace as well - I am using my bad hand to point at the Morris Industries "Circle M" logo at the valve stem.
 

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A very worn out pointy toothed aluminum 37t sprocket on the other side, with the bolt-on drive side sprocket carrier/bearing retainer welded to the hub! Sheesh. several signs here that the bike was definitely raced, safety wired bolt heads and all, steep gearing for top end, typical headstock fillet-brazed/bronze-weld joint cracks repaired on frame and additional gusseting added, etc.

I will be very very happy to put this thing back in service and give it a new life.

I don't care for mags typically, always go for spoked wheels, and performance oriented sizes like these vintage race wheels I may use with some old DID shouldered alloy rims laced in Suzuki GS hubs. If no luck on an actual straight spoked Rickman hub, I plan on running these once I overcome the 11/16" axle to 20mm hub bearing/spacers i.d. issue with some machinework...
 

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