Texas Two Step Taco

Looks like lots of fun was had by all. Q: Why is the curve so lumpy? Is that a function of the sensors and or RF noise, or is it really missing like an SOB all the way up? Just throwing thoughts out there late at night when I should be tucked up in bed dreaming.............

Did you run CHT and EGT on the dyno? Please try that next time to see what's going on.
Is the stinger large enough to run on your bike? Too small is fine for raising pipe temps and getting the bike to run past the red line at the strip, but not so good on a dyno.

Pipe is designed for revs that you may want to avoid. 9500 is on the high side if you want the big end to last. Don't forget that force on the big end is a square effect. Double engine speed = 4 times the load on the big end. You need small rollers, singles in a light cage - preferably silver coated.

360 cc of hot gas into a 250cc pipe is probably not a huge issue but a drag bike doesn't heat soak the way your bike will on a dyno. BTW, we put an RD350 on the dyno last week. Stock supposedly 28-32 at the rear wheel. We got 52 when it was cool and 48 heat soaked on stock carbs (not stock jets) and not so stock everything else. Using that as a crude comparison, a 360 Bultaco could theoretically make 50-ish HP.

That reed set up is interesting but looks all wrong to my tired eyes. Think in terms of changes to cross sectional area. You want smooth transitions as much as possible. With old style reeds in the barrel, it's harder to get gas into the bottom end and then up into the transfer ducts. There will always be some horrible transitions, but think of the gas flow. Model it with smoke and a vacuum source if necessary. And the reed petals are a long way from the piston and will tend to react slower than they might need to. Also consider fiberglass reeds with lower Young's modulus. You can model that in MOTA as well.

Is there a simpler reedbox that would work with say V Force 3 or 4 reeds for say a Polaris 700 twin or say an Arctic Cat 900cc triple with a a larger carb? Bolt on reed boxes for an H2 are a touch spendy but might be adaptable. Just thinking about possibilities.

If you are stuck with that sort of reed box, consider larger one piece reeds and remove the dividers between the finger petals. For example we used YZ85 reed cages in place of RD or even RZ/TZ cages because they are two large petals in place of two pairs of finger petals. Check around to see what is available that might work.

You may also want to look at transfer port outlet angles in both planes. Think colliding streams. Think higher CR and ways to keep the motor cool with rich mixture. retard the timing and keep the cylinder cool but that adds heat to the pipe which eventually comes back to bite you too.

If you ran race gas on the dyno, then it has too much compression already or timing is too advanced or the pipe is all wrong. Try to model that pipe in MOTA and check exhaust temps and pressures. Also check blowdown timing and see if there's enough time are to stop hot gas from filling the bottom end as soon as the transfers open.

You could also looks at MSV in that shiny new head as well as faster burning fuel with less advance.

I am pretty sure that BB knows all this stuff - and a whole lot more. It's fun to work out what works and what doesn't. Keep having fun. :)
 
teazer said:
Looks like lots of fun was had by all. Q: Why is the curve so lumpy? Is that a function of the sensors and or RF noise, or is it really missing like an SOB all the way up? Just throwing thoughts out there late at night when I should be tucked up in bed dreaming.............

360 cc of hot gas into a 250cc pipe is probably not a huge issue but a drag bike doesn't heat soak the way your bike will on a dyno. BTW, we put an RD350 on the dyno last week. Stock supposedly 28-32 at the rear wheel. We got 52 when it was cool and 48 heat soaked on stock carbs (not stock jets) and not so stock everything else. Using that as a crude comparison, a 360 Bultaco could theoretically make 50-ish HP.
This will need multiple posts...congrats on the dyno with the RD350. This will be fun. Huge RF noise here is a cleaned up run
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Yes on the stinger being too small but BB has a sense of humor and figures we should see if it seized up my old tired engine like it did his highly modified engine LOL. .


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teazer said:
Looks like lots of fun was had by all. Q: Why is the curve so lumpy? Is that a function of the sensors and or RF noise, or is it really missing like an SOB all the way up? Just throwing thoughts out there late at night when I should be tucked up in bed dreaming.............

Did you run CHT and EGT on the dyno?
no but next time we will use the other pipe and attaché the sensors.
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Could also be that some dyno software smooths the curve more than others. That looks a little better without the noise. It's all part of the fun of trying to drag a really old design into the current century.

A really big fan to dump heat would be a good idea on the dyno if he doesn't have one (or two). Heat control is critical and that's where even small differences like squish clearance etc can have a significant impact.
 
teazer said:
Is there a simpler reedbox that would work with say V Force 3 or 4 reeds for say a Polaris 700 twin or say an Arctic Cat 900cc triple with a a larger carb? Bolt on reed boxes for an H2 are a touch spendy but might be adaptable. Just thinking about possibilities.
I have been looking at the VForce 3 and 4 and am currently designing my own box. The fast by gas box for the H2 is WAY pricey and since I have time and a mill we will be making our own box.
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i started with modifying a Bultaco reed box but am not impressed with it
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so will continue on with my own
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“You may also want to look at transfer port outlet angles in both planes. Think colliding streams.”
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I don’t think the transfer ports should be coming off the barrel at a 90 degree angle. Epoxy? Trim the barrel? Why don’t the pictures go in the order you select them?


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Well that's an ugly little thing... Check the piston in the barrel and see if you need to add epoxy before you start to flow that step and match the crankcases.

Most two strokes designed in teh last few decades used crankcase reeds, so transfer ports and reed box designs aren't always quite what we need. Is there any way that you could add a crankcase reed to that vertically split set of crankcases by any stretch of the imagination? If not, look at the H2 design and copy the boost port design into the back of your barrel to get more transfer time-area.

You may also be able to find a modern (or less old) 360-400 barrel with reed cage that you could adapt or even cut off and attach to your barrels. It would be nice if you could drop say an RM, YZ or CR top end onto your cases, but if not, get a cheap barrel with crusty bore and chop off the reed box and hot glue (weld) it onto yours.

BTW, I think the reason that pipe keeps revving to the moon until it seizes is that pipe temp keeps rising and that keeps raising the speed of sound and therefore the revs at which it peaks. So instead of stretching the overrev a little, it just keeps going until the excess heat melts something. Probably too small a stinger, but could be other causes.
 
teazer said:
Well that's an ugly little thing... Check the piston in the barrel and see if you need to add epoxy before you start to flow that step and match the crankcases.

Most two strokes designed in teh last few decades used crankcase reeds, so transfer ports and reed box designs aren't always quite what we need. Is there any way that you could add a crankcase reed to that vertically split set of crankcases by any stretch of the imagination? If not, look at the H2 design and copy the boost port design into the back of your barrel to get more transfer time-area.

You may also be able to find a modern (or less old) 360-400 barrel with reed cage that you could adapt or even cut off and attach to your barrels. It would be nice if you could drop say an RM, YZ or CR top end onto your cases, but if not, get a cheap barrel with crusty bore and chop off the reed box and hot glue (weld) it onto yours.

BTW, I think the reason that pipe keeps revving to the moon until it seizes is that pipe temp keeps rising and that keeps raising the speed of sound and therefore the revs at which it peaks. So instead of stretching the overrev a little, it just keeps going until the excess heat melts something. Probably too small a stinger, but could be other causes.
Yes so beautiful on the outside but she needs to work on her inner beauty. I don’t think I can physically hold the revs above 8k for very long because she makes EVERYTHING resonate from the balls of my feet to the fillings in my teeth. This is from a guy who use to be on twostrokeworld.com he put a Mark 8 Pursang 360 in his Metralla GT “Originally I had ported the engine in line with the time/area guidelines published in Gordon Jennings book. Target rpms were 7500. This is when I first became aware of the limitations imposed by the oversquare design. Basically these limitations are due to the fact that as the bore is enlarged the cylinder capacity increases with the square of the bore diameter, while cylinder wall area only increases in direct proportion. What this means in practice is that with an oversquare engine it's quite possible that you will simply run out of room in which to put ports. You can't cut a hole in a hole, plus you have to leave enough wall in place to support the piston. I found that while I could get sufficient exhaust and transfer time/area it was difficult to get enough intake area without making the intake duration excessively long and/or having the piston want to fall out of the back of the cylinder. This is what limited the peak rpms. Still, the engine performed quite well and was still very tractable.” He developed his bike to the mid 50’s.


So Zeke and I have a friend’s 87 Husqvarna 500 XC in the shop we have been saving from some neglect. Cleaned carbs, new chain rollers, and we have been riding it. LOL! Oh and it loves to wheelie! So the Husky has turned into the KTM or vice versa. I have been studying Jennings and have been looking at the evolution of the Husky 430 to 500 porting etc.
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this is the 430 with transfers similar to the Bultaco and here is the 500
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Jennings says you run out of room for the intake.

I guess we can just drop the 2017 Fuel Injected KTM in the chassis! Nah this is about becoming intimate with Bandara and helping her discover her inner beauty.


What I find interesting is the the Bandido had the same 32mm Amal as the Montadero and made 42bhp. (I am betting it was all chamber) Hughes is sending me a port map of the Bandido for comparison. I like the idea about putting the reed box on the case. Also like a he idea of a boost port. Also like the idea of using a different jug and sleeve. (There is always Ralf) Zeke says I need to make a new Chromoly frame since the only thing that is straight on the bike is the new swing arm. So many options. I like to take things like we first did with Lucky and change one thing at a time. Probably will run it without the reed box first. Clean up everything so it can be OPTIMIZED see if we can do 42whp and beat the Bandido time in the 1/8th.




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That 500 cylinder is much nicer than the early one but two things are important - enough time-area to achieve your HP goals, and torque off the line. We waste too much time getting up to speed and for a short run, the first 60 is critical. That's why I like high compression and area under teh curve. It's not the salt flats, so torque is what we are looking for to get the train out of the station.

Zeke is right about a light frame. Straight is over rated, but weight holds us back. Add lightness where possible.

Good point about large over-square versus long stroke. Big bore provides more wall area but longer stroke gives more time to get gas flowing where it needs to go.
 
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370 Frontera Dyno and porting. I am collecting data on the evolution of the Bultaco porting. This is 9hp less than the Bandido...all because of a muffler?


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I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the pipe, they called Bultaco horsepower "Spanish ponies" back in the day. I don't think a Bandido ever made 42hp, more likely low to mid 30's. The Yamaha SC500 made around 43 from memory, and it was a lot more trick than a 360 Bully. Still a great machine to have though, and you are certainly doing some good work with yours.
 
Pete12 said:
I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the pipe, they called Bultaco horsepower "Spanish ponies" back in the day. I don't think a Bandido ever made 42hp, more likely low to mid 30's. The Yamaha SC500 made around 43 from memory, and it was a lot more trick than a 360 Bully. Still a great machine to have though, and you are certainly doing some good work with yours.
Thank you! It is interesting to see how many bikes used Yamaha parts to improve on the original design. 350 Kawasaki Bighorn https://www.klemmvintage.com/bighorntech.htm used a Yamaha rod for their modifications. It is fun to take a platform that seems to have potential like the Montadero. I have never had a bike with such personality. It took me for a ride backwards on our first outing, kicked me harder than I have ever been kicked, and a total groin giggle to ride in any form. For me there is no more fun than trying to go faster on a slow small motorcycle and one that is my age. I have had one complaint for the Bultaco group that with the Magee pipe made it sound too much like a Kawasaki. I told him as far as I knew Bulls liked Kaws. Hopefully we don’t become Bullkaki ;)


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Yes, you're right, nothing like turning a small underpowered engine into a rocket ship, puts a big smile on your face...
I have been putting Yamaha conrods into Maicos for years now. They are cheap and bulletproof and are identical except for being 2mm wider across the bigend journal, so I made up a jig to machine the flywheels out in my lathe. I have done them for heaps of people and never had a complaint, particularly as the Maico ones are not only hard to find and expensive when you do get them, but are inherently weak.
 
Pete12 said:
Yes, you're right, nothing like turning a small underpowered engine into a rocket ship, puts a big smile on your face...
I have been putting Yamaha conrods into Maicos for years now. They are cheap and bulletproof and are identical except for being 2mm wider across the bigend journal, so I made up a jig to machine the flywheels out in my lathe. I have done them for heaps of people and never had a complaint, particularly as the Maico ones are not only hard to find and expensive when you do get them, but are inherently weak.
Awesome! At least there is a way to keep these bikes going. Apparently there is no substitution for Yamaha lol Stan Lipert just post mid 60’s whp for his rd400 track bike. Oh and “there is no substitution for revs.”


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We are moving in the right direction Wiseco Pro Lite 86mm forged 13.8 oz
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Mahle non forged two stroke Bultaco Montadero 85.5 mm May I stick to your cylinder is 16.25 oz
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Port Map for the Bultaco Bandido B18 looks like the exhaust ports are taller
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Port map for the Bultaco Montadero M81 has finger ports
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