Project Gretta....seat action.....

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Dunno about any of that Troy, I feel pretty certain that I did my research and found nothing....BUT, you should know that generation 2's parts are in hand, and are destined to go on BTC. You'd better believe you're getting one! It's only right, the phone consults were enough payment for that!

Today I got all of the gauges wired, soldered, heat shrinked, and mounted. They are perfect. It looks like I maintain about 13.7 volts at idle with the oil pump running. I can't believe it, but damn, this is gonna work. After about 15 minutes of idle and intermittent revving, the temperature (mind you it's sitting still and not moving air through the cooler) never got above 220 degrees F. That's awesome. All the while I get the peace of mind that she is getting constant oil lubrication directly to the cam and the rockers. I will eventually replace all of the oil lines with copper, but for now I'm working the kinks out. All of the new gauges are electronic, including the tach. They are all rubber mounted to the trees to prevent vibration, cause Gretta likes to shake that thing! The oil temp gauge runs a single pickup wire going to a sensor that mounts in the oiling manifold right above the valve cover. It's nice and clean. The oil pump switch is installed in the new gauge bracket and works beautifully. It's actually a vintage Lucas switch that I picked up from Barber's last year. Nice patina on there. I'm getting a little misfire on the left cylinder leading me to believe that the timing needs advanced a hair on that side, so tomorrow I get to splurge on a new timing light since my Harbor Freight version crapped out on me today. It was a good light....made it to WV and back, and then I dropped it today and no more working for her. Oh well, I wanted one with a dial in advance feature anyway!!!!

I have to do that, and then I have to build a dual fire adapter for the electronic tach. This allows the tach to sense the pulse from both tachometers without backfeeding the signal through the wires and causing a mis-fire. I bought the resistors and the diodes today to build it, but haven't made it that far yet. Those of you at Troy's remember how the gauge jumped around like a spastic when it idled because it was running off of one coil only....w.ll tomorrow, NO MORE! Then the cockpit will be complete. So for your viewing pleasure, here's what you see whilst grinning 'neath the helmet and goggles. Pretty sexy if I do say so myself.

Here's a lighted view so you can see the oil pump switch installed:


And all lit up in Batman mode:


And with headlight on to get profile.


This I thought was funny. I separate all of my pictures in photobucket by date. This was taken on 9-23-09. Time flies brothers!



Hope you dig it!

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Man, time flies when you're having fun.

Now that i think about it, i havent even been a member for a whole year yet.

Looks good Kiley! Doesnt your speedo backlight change colors as well?

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Big Rich said:

Looks good Kiley! Doesnt your speedo backlight change colors as well?

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Man that's hard to believe Rich, you feel like family. I can't believe it has been less than a year for ya! Damn.

And yes sir, it changes to any color of the rainbow. I didn't buy it that way on purpose, but electronic tachs in the size that I needed were very hard to come by and pricey. This one just happened to fit the bill and the price range, so there she is! It's kind of funny, it has a cycle button, and if you hold it in, it does a light show for you and changes colors in waves. Pretty psychadellic!

Thanks for the props brother!

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

im super jealous kiley! man, what happened to the blue tank that is in that pic? might just look good with some pounding here and there and slapped on my 350

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Rocan said:

im super jealous kiley! man, what happened to the blue tank that is in that pic? might just look good with some pounding here and there and slapped on my 350

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Haha, Thanks David. I appreciate the kind words every time you post them bro.

As far as the 200 tank, Troy gave that to me, and I still have it. I'm gonna hang on to her though, I love it too much and I know that I will find a home for her soon. Dunno where, but I just can't get rid of it. Too much history. The first incarnation of BTC sported that tank!!! Now that's nostalgia.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

So u know my XS650 has to be prototype #2 for the fuel injection right? And my SR500 could use some injection too.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Absolutely awesome build!! I've been watching it for a while now. Can you pm me details on your reluctor for the electronic ignition. I also have an idea for you on your fuel injection idea if you're interested.

-Jon

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Boyer-Bransden used to list one as did Newtronics. RITA would also fit with little work though they would be hard to find. Actually I have one I could sell you. Can't swear that any of those UK systems are still available.

Ignitech can be made to fit easily with twin pickups or a single pickup and multi lobe trigger plate, and several modern bike pick ups and timing wheels could be adapted to drive a CDI like an MSD 6 series for example.

Pertronix could probably be adapted, but I hear not so good things about those.

And those are all for street bikes.

I can suggest a couple of race type systems if you want those too.

You may have misinterpreted the intent of that prior post. That happens, and it's easy to see how that might occur.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Kiley,

Looking good. That oil temp is fairly high - but not outrageous. Where is the sensor located?

And any idea when you'll do the reveal on the FI? I'll be very interested to see how that works out. Did you read the web posting on teh RZ350 with R1 throttle bodies and a megasquirt? It's a few years old but interesting.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

TroyBilt and the other Troy.

troybilt said:

wow man I have a 360 too and I've been looking for away to get rid of my points. I'm really interested that a gl1000 will fit straight on. Or how about the several other systems available off the shelf that fit that bike as you say... please do tell. Guess I've been living in the dark. Boy do I feel stupid.

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It's galling to think that I could be wrong about that GL1000 ignition, but it wouldn't be the first time, or the last. I don't have a spare GL1000 ignition on the shelf to check, so I did the next best thing and googled it.

After a couple of false starts, I found a great article on fitting one to a CB450. That writer had also discovered that the GL is not quite like all those in line 4s, but is a very different beast. As Kiley already mentioned, the pickups get to about 100 degree separation, and have to modified slightly to get to 90 degrees.

http://www.thepeanutslab.com/bikehenge/bikehenge_images/450/dyna.pdf

It may not be as original as Kiley's solution and it's quite possible it cost more, but it does work. It could probably fit into any other Honda twin with a little work and clever thinking.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Kiley... HOLY SHIT. Love it man. You keep it up you may have to start your own company... ha ha ha. Seriously though youre the man. Really looking forward to getting together on hookin up the 350s!

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

I flat out love the guage set up! look so trick! Actually i just installed one of the HID in my bandit last night!

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Awesome Joe! Bright aren't they!!!!

Teaser, that's some great info. That confirms that a dyna setup could indeed work, and I have those exact pickups laying around here. I was very leary about altering the functionality of the pickups by cutting them, but it looks like it would indeed work. As far as the british solutions, I checked into some of them like Boyer and others, and never found a listed version. I don't doubt that they made them in the past, it just seems like the interest in CB360s waned in the 90s, and they quit producing them. It's interesting how they have gained a resurgence in popularity since they are kind of a black sheep due to their inherent problems with the appetite for cam chain slippers and the failure of the oiling system to the head. That's why I created the oil pump system, and I am also running a delrin slipper that Kit sent me to test out. We'll see how she holds up!

My oil sensor is built into the manifold post oil cooler. Remember, I am not running a cooling fan on my cooler, it is just an air circulation cooler only, and all tests were done at idle in the shop. I have a feeling the temperature will go down when the bike is actually moving, as the cooler is mounted right to the front of the front down tube. I'll get you some pics of that setup today. I have faith in it. It has a few plus points. It increases the oil capacity of the system by about 700ml, provides direct lubrication to the cam journals, and cools the entire system as it runs. I haven't done some good post up shots of that system either. I'll get my timing light today and try to show you a lot of what's going on this evening.

Thanks for posting all of that info for me. After pricing parts from MSD and Petronix, I found that they were quite expensive to acquire parts for. My system cost right around $50 using hall effect sensors from a Toyota Corolla, and two Ebay finds on GM HEI modules made by accel for $20 each. The sensors were junkyard parts. Eventually, I want to run some sort of electronic timing control to eliminate the mechanical advance.

As far as the FI, we are working out the bugs in our SR500 test motor as we speak. After that we're going to adapt it to a twin and so on. Tim, you're in luck buddy, because the next motor we try will be an XS650. My buddy Neal is a nut over those lumps!!!

Thanks for the input fellas.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Kiley...can I come live in your barn? I'll sweep the shop out for you.......

At risk of sounding gushy.....this is inspiring on many levels. Thanks for sharing so much!

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Kiley,

That all makes sense.

To measure oil temperature as it comes out of the motor or when it's going back in - always a dilemma. We measured it on a sump drain plug on one CB160/175 race motor. It would get to 220 or sometimes slightly more.

If the oil is getting hot, it's doing its job of removing heat from the motor. The trick IMHO is to get enough volume i.e. enough mass of oil to carry away the heat. That extra capacity is a big deal I think in terms of temperature management on an air cooled motor.

When we started playing with ideas to inject a GT750 reed motor, we looked at stock ECUs and piggy backs and new control units and the only one at a good price point was megasquirt. I really want a MoTeC but i'd have to rob a bank first or sell someone else's first born. At one stage I though I found a guy who claimed he could reprogram a GSXR ECU and that had me very excited as a possible solution. It's a hybrid that appears to run MAP and TPS at low speed and N-Alpha further up the scale. For a 2 stroke MAP makes no sense, but TPS (alpha) and revs (n) with overlay tables for ambient pressure and temp, plus coolant temp makes sense.

The other problem with a big stroker is getting big enough injectors. GSXR600/750 would have to exceed 100% duty cycle, so they won't work. Maybe shower heads would add enough capacity and switch from small low end to larger at high revs might be the right compromise for our application.

Too many projects, too little time.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

I've used the Megasquirt before and I think it's brilliant once you get the hang of tweeking parameters.
I've also got a MicroSquirt on hand for a project, about the same setup but pared down for bikes and other small engines.
Teazer, were you guys planning to run premix or secondary injectors for oil? The added viscosity will require an even larger rate of flow....you may need to look into the automotive market. I dunno....never thought about injecting a smoker.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Very cool brotha. The gauges look cool as hell. Remind me to ask you about the light show that your gauges display. Cant wait to see it all in real life. I cant wait to see what you come up with on the fuel injection. Have thought about adapting a kawi gpz turbo fuel injection system? i think they are easy to tweak on using the sensors. mx bikes are coming injected now too and i know theres programmers for them.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Swagger,

don't want to hijack Kiley's excellent thread, but short answer is we plan on keeping the oil pump and just injecting fuel.

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Typed a long update and the site ate it.

Basically, Gretta is in time, running well, and deafening. All bolted down and ready to rock. 2 degrees of advance is the sweet spot for her. Compression is brutal, and she will knock you down quick! Beautiful. I am in love again.

The dual spark adapter is built, I used to 1k resitors and a 700A diode. Works perfectly. Included is a couple of pics of the oil manifold and temperature sensor for those interested.

I'll see you soon with more updates!

Dual spark adapter...makes tach work off of 2 coils:



Oil manifold:




Timed and bolted down. Amazing!

Re: Project Gretta....something's in the water....

Awsome work, just awsome. I can't wait to see a video posted.