First timer: Honda CB360 Resto

jnorman

New Member
Last April I bought this 75 Honda 360T as a way to go beyond the routine maintenance I'd done on my Nighthawk and, learn how to wrench on bikes. The price was right and the bike was fairly complete and clean but not running. I opted for a refresh/resto rather than some sort of half ass cafe job, because, well I'm very much a novice at this. Quick note: I have some mechanical ability, my dad and I rebuilt a Camaro when I was a teenager, I've welded (not well), and have been around mechanical people and things throughout my life but am still very new to bikes.

Anyway: here's the bike

104715-070216000712.jpeg


I've taken my time on this build (no where near complete yet) and took about a 3 month hiatus as my fiance was pregnant. We just had twins so my time is even more sparse, but working on this is a stress reliever.

The build has focused on the motor thus far. Like I said the bike wasn't running when I bought it. It turned freely but compression was way low (50 psi, I think) on one of the cylinders so I pulled the motor and went to work disassembling the top end. I found a shattered piston ring that came apart in pieces. Because it came out in pieces and, probably more so, because I was curious and this is supposed to be a learning experience, I split the case to inspect the rest of the motor and make sure none of the piston found its way into the case. It was blast and I learned a ton.

The bike was much lighter:
104715-070216004515.jpeg


Here's the motor sorry for the weird angle.
104715-070216004627.jpeg


I've had to replace some parts... Some my fault others not... One of the PO's let the cam chain get nice and loose and it started to wear through the jugs. He solved that with some bondo.... I solved that by getting a new set of jugs from Ebay. I'll take a pic of the old jugs tomorrow and post it.

Also, word of warning to other newbies - bag everything...seriously bag everything. Like as soon as it leaves the motor, bag it. I threw away both my counter and main shaft bearing retainers because I thought they looked like broken piston rings...they weren't. Ebay saved my ass.

So a breakdown of the progress thus far:
Head, cylinders, cam and pistons inspected by a reputable shop here.
Cylinders honed (by shop)and pistons cleaned and fitted with new rings (by yours truly)
Valves removed, cleaned and lapped. Passed leak test.
Gasket material removed (Worst part)
Cases, jugs, head, and rocker cover? (piece above the head) painted stock aluminum with heat resistant paint. Points cover painted black.
Numerous covers polished (what a job...but rewarding)
New oil seals all around
New gaskets (obvi)
New cam chain tensioner
Cleaned the gas tank with vinegar, some nutzzz and vigorous shaking/ rolling the tank down a small hill.
There has to be more, but it's late and I'm sleep deprived. I'll update if it comes to me.

I checked out the bottom-end, everything looked fine, no shards of piston ring. Cleaned everything up, laid some gasket sealer and put the case back together. Installed piston rings, put the pistons on the rod, jugs on, shifting mechanism, clutch, starter, etc and then the baby-hiatus happened.

Now I'm back at it and after watching another forum member's (Saturday Wrench) latest video on inspection and putting the bottom end together I figured out some stuff I could have done better. So tonight I took everything back apart and resplit the case again.

Here are the reasons:
- Last time I assembled it I used a mix of 10W-40 and Marvel Mystery oil as my "assembly lube". But since I don't know how long the motor will be sitting before I get the rest of the bike up to speed, I bought Permatex assembly lube and and going to relube with that.
-I plan to inspect everything a little better, the dog ears on the transmission shafts, etc.
- I wasn't sure if I had put the barrels on the studs for the cylinder jugs

This being my first build, I want it done right or done absolutely as correctly as I can.

That leads me to couple questions (hopefully you haven't stopped reading yet.)

In case you have, here are some before and after shots of shiny engine bits to re-excite you:

Before:
104715-070216010615.jpeg

104715-070216010546.jpeg


After:
104715-070216010654.jpeg


Yeah. I'm proud of that.

Back to the engine questions:

1) I found that the pin that helps hold the bearing on the counter shaft in place when the case is closed somehow sits below where it would catch the hole in the bearing. How do I get it out to reposition it? What if I can't get it out...Can it stay that way without blowing something up?

Pic:
104715-070216011247.jpeg


2) How much side to side play should the connecting rods have? Mine have very little, but its there. Both have about equal play (from what I can feel) so it leads me to believe they are okay but I wanted to double check. There is no movement pushing down or pulling up on the rod.

3) What am I looking for on the bearing surfaces on the case. This is some of the stuff I've found:
104715-070216011717.jpeg


104715-070216011803.jpeg

Please ignore the rust on those plates. I cleaned them up later.

With that last photo as well - the manual says something about the cam chain plunger having a mark on it that's supposed to be facing a certain way. It doesn't look like mine has that....I haven't removed it to measure to see if there's a difference over which side faces up...but was wondering if anyone else knew?

Any additional words of wisdom? Advise? Un-fettered opinions?

That's it for now ... thanks for going through the novel. I appreciate all help and criticism.

Cheers
 
jnorman said:
1) I found that the pin that helps hold the bearing on the counter shaft in place when the case is closed somehow sits below where it would catch the hole in the bearing. How do I get it out to reposition it? What if I can't get it out...Can it stay that way without blowing something up?

Pic:
104715-070216011247.jpeg
That pin getting pushed in there means the bearing's hole wasn't lined up with the pin when the cases were put back together. There's a good chance the pin's hole is now mauled and unable to take a pin without being rounded again. I'd check. Without the pin to hole, the entire bearing can spin in the case. It can also effect it's ability to seal down the road. The pins are pretty tight in there. You might be able to tack a small 3mm threaded rod on there and see if some slide-hammer type action brings it out. Maybe spraying it with some CRC freeze off will be enough to shrink and encourage it to come out.
 
Thanks Deviant, I'm pretty sure that pin was pushed down the first time I put it back together (not trying to pass the buck...it could have been me that pushed it down). That's another reason I'm glad I resplit this thing.

I'll try the CRC on the pin and some light heat on the case and see if I coerce it out. If I do have to tack a rod on it, are there places to get a replacement pin in case it's too far gone?

Also, with the hole, if it is out of round what are my options? I'm assuming I'd drill a slightly larger hole to make it round and try to find an oversize pin.
 
Here's a photo of the bondo job on the old cylinder jugs. I'm not quite sure what to do with these...I guess I could make a couple bucks scrapping them but I sort of dig them to hold onto. Maybe I'll saw it in half and use them as book ends... Before I do, is there any saving iron liners?

104715-080216211717.jpeg


I'm going to take my case to my dad's this weekend to get the pin out. He has a mig welder and is a tool and die guy so hopefully we can sort that situation out.

In other news, I'm very excited to dive into this book:

104715-080216211821.jpeg
 
jnorman said:
Last April I bought this 75 Honda 360T as a way to go beyond the routine maintenance I'd done on my Nighthawk and, learn how to wrench on bikes. The price was right and the bike was fairly complete and clean but not running. I opted for a refresh/resto rather than some sort of half ass cafe job, because, well I'm very much a novice at this. Quick note: I have some mechanical ability, my dad and I rebuilt a Camaro when I was a teenager, I've welded (not well), and have been around mechanical people and things throughout my life but am still very new to bikes.

Anyway: here's the bike

104715-070216000712.jpeg


I've taken my time on this build (no where near complete yet) and took about a 3 month hiatus as my fiance was pregnant. We just had twins so my time is even more sparse, but working on this is a stress reliever.

The build has focused on the motor thus far. Like I said the bike wasn't running when I bought it. It turned freely but compression was way low (50 psi, I think) on one of the cylinders so I pulled the motor and went to work disassembling the top end. I found a shattered piston ring that came apart in pieces. Because it came out in pieces and, probably more so, because I was curious and this is supposed to be a learning experience, I split the case to inspect the rest of the motor and make sure none of the piston found its way into the case. It was blast and I learned a ton.

The bike was much lighter:
104715-070216004515.jpeg


Here's the motor sorry for the weird angle.
104715-070216004627.jpeg


I've had to replace some parts... Some my fault others not... One of the PO's let the cam chain get nice and loose and it started to wear through the jugs. He solved that with some bondo.... I solved that by getting a new set of jugs from Ebay. I'll take a pic of the old jugs tomorrow and post it.

Also, word of warning to other newbies - bag everything...seriously bag everything. Like as soon as it leaves the motor, bag it. I threw away both my counter and main shaft bearing retainers because I thought they looked like broken piston rings...they weren't. Ebay saved my ass.

So a breakdown of the progress thus far:
Head, cylinders, cam and pistons inspected by a reputable shop here.
Cylinders honed (by shop)and pistons cleaned and fitted with new rings (by yours truly)
Valves removed, cleaned and lapped. Passed leak test.
Gasket material removed (Worst part)
Cases, jugs, head, and rocker cover? (piece above the head) painted stock aluminum with heat resistant paint. Points cover painted black.
Numerous covers polished (what a job...but rewarding)
New oil seals all around
New gaskets (obvi)
New cam chain tensioner
Cleaned the gas tank with vinegar, some nutzzz and vigorous shaking/ rolling the tank down a small hill.
There has to be more, but it's late and I'm sleep deprived. I'll update if it comes to me.

I checked out the bottom-end, everything looked fine, no shards of piston ring. Cleaned everything up, laid some gasket sealer and put the case back together. Installed piston rings, put the pistons on the rod, jugs on, shifting mechanism, clutch, starter, etc and then the baby-hiatus happened.

Now I'm back at it and after watching another forum member's (Saturday Wrench) latest video on inspection and putting the bottom end together I figured out some stuff I could have done better. So tonight I took everything back apart and resplit the case again.

Here are the reasons:
- Last time I assembled it I used a mix of 10W-40 and Marvel Mystery oil as my "assembly lube". But since I don't know how long the motor will be sitting before I get the rest of the bike up to speed, I bought Permatex assembly lube and and going to relube with that.
-I plan to inspect everything a little better, the dog ears on the transmission shafts, etc.
- I wasn't sure if I had put the barrels on the studs for the cylinder jugs

This being my first build, I want it done right or done absolutely as correctly as I can.

That leads me to couple questions (hopefully you haven't stopped reading yet.)

In case you have, here are some before and after shots of shiny engine bits to re-excite you:

Before:
104715-070216010615.jpeg

104715-070216010546.jpeg


After:
104715-070216010654.jpeg


Yeah. I'm proud of that.

Back to the engine questions:

1) I found that the pin that helps hold the bearing on the counter shaft in place when the case is closed somehow sits below where it would catch the hole in the bearing. How do I get it out to reposition it? What if I can't get it out...Can it stay that way without blowing something up?

Pic:
104715-070216011247.jpeg


2) How much side to side play should the connecting rods have? Mine have very little, but its there. Both have about equal play (from what I can feel) so it leads me to believe they are okay but I wanted to double check. There is no movement pushing down or pulling up on the rod.

3) What am I looking for on the bearing surfaces on the case. This is some of the stuff I've found:
104715-070216011717.jpeg


104715-070216011803.jpeg

Please ignore the rust on those plates. I cleaned them up later.

With that last photo as well - the manual says something about the cam chain plunger having a mark on it that's supposed to be facing a certain way. It doesn't look like mine has that....I haven't removed it to measure to see if there's a difference over which side faces up...but was wondering if anyone else knew?

Any additional words of wisdom? Advise? Un-fettered opinions?

That's it for now ... thanks for going through the novel. I appreciate all help and criticism.

Cheers

Curious, what was your method for polishing?:

Sanding: What grits did you use?
Polishing: Tripoli, then end with white rouge?

Thanks for any tips, the parts look awesome!

John
 
Thanks for the compliments guys. You can send me covers but shop rates apply, lol.

I probably have 15+ hours into the clutch cover alone. I'm not sure I'll ever do it this intensely again but it's been a great exercise in patience and fun to see come out.

Materials:
Beer
Degreaser
220 Grit
400 Grit
600 Grit
1000 Grit
Black polish compound with sisal wheel
Brown polish with stitch wheel
*I didn't hit those with the loose leaf wheel and white rouge.

The key for me was to make sure I sanded in the same direction (either horizontally or vertically) across the part and then turn exactly 90 degrees for the next stage and sand until all of the marks from the previous sanding are removed.

Every stage of sanding was wet sanded with water.

After each stage of sanding I washed the part and changed rubber gloves.

After the 1000 grit (and washing) I turned it 90 degrees again and used the sisal wheel and black rouge. Make sure you hold the part very tightly... I had one piece hit the floor. Also, be aware of the nut at the end of the bench grinder, it can knick the part.

I used cotton gloves for the buffing wheel and used a separate set of gloves for each wheel so there was no cross contamination of buffing compound.

After I finished with the first stage of compound I switched to rubber gloves, dumped some dry flour on the part and buffed it with a rag to remove any excess compound, oil and moisture. Then on to the final wheel and brown compound. Same flour treatment with rubber gloves. Then some form of aluminum polish.

I used an 8 inch bench grinder/buffing wheel.
 
jnorman said:
Thanks for the compliments guys. You can send me covers but shop rates apply, lol.

I probably have 15+ hours into the clutch cover alone. I'm not sure I'll ever do it this intensely again but it's been a great exercise in patience and fun to see come out.

Materials:
Beer
Degreaser
220 Grit
400 Grit
600 Grit
1000 Grit
Black polish compound with sisal wheel
Brown polish with stitch wheel
*I didn't hit those with the loose leaf wheel and white rouge.

The key for me was to make sure I sanded in the same direction (either horizontally or vertically) across the part and then turn exactly 90 degrees for the next stage and sand until all of the marks from the previous sanding are removed.

Every stage of sanding was wet sanded with water.

After each stage of sanding I washed the part and changed rubber gloves.

After the 1000 grit (and washing) I turned it 90 degrees again and used the sisal wheel and black rouge. Make sure you hold the part very tightly... I had one piece hit the floor. Also, be aware of the nut at the end of the bench grinder, it can knick the part.

I used cotton gloves for the buffing wheel and used a separate set of gloves for each wheel so there was no cross contamination of buffing compound.

After I finished with the first stage of compound I switched to rubber gloves, dumped some dry flour on the part and buffed it with a rag to remove any excess compound, oil and moisture. Then on to the final wheel and brown compound. Same flour treatment with rubber gloves. Then some form of aluminum polish.

I used an 8 inch bench grinder/buffing wheel.

Holy crap. The mad scientist ;) Thanks, and welcome!
 
I got some wrenching done on the bike last week and this weekend.

After splitting the case last week, I went through and more thoroughly cleaned both cases and removed all the remaining sludge and scraped all the freshly laid honda bond off. I checked out the crank and transmission more closely, made some measurements and everything checked out.
104715-150216163216.jpeg


104715-150216163239.jpeg

Gotta love a pile of parts

104715-150216163309.jpeg

Template to keep all the case bolts straight

104715-150216163326.jpeg

Cam chain and starter chain getting happy

104715-150216163601.jpeg

Found another use for the case
 
Got one of the carbs put back together before heading to my parents so my dad could help me remove the stuck pin.

He took it into his shop and TIG welded this stud on there without getting splatter anywhere else. Then he made a new pin out of an ejector pin. I wanted to tag along but the shop gets funny about outside people coming in

104715-150216163816.jpeg

No matter how far my skills come, I'll always be in awe with what he can do with metal.

Cleaned the crank, transmission and greased it all with Permatex assembly lube. Put the bottom end together and sealed it back up. Word of warning: watch out for the honda bond... it really sticks to stuff... It took me about an hour to rub all of that off (insert sex joke here) my coat.
104715-150216164117.jpeg


Question: I couldn't find torque specs on the case bolts, so I put them at 11 ft/lbs.... suggestions/ thoughts on that?

Hung the pistons and got the cylinders back on
104715-150216164320.jpeg


That's all for now. Next on the list is to clean up the ports on the head a little better and redo the acetone test. The last time I put the acetone in the combustion chamber and looked to see if it leaked into the port. I hear that's backwards, so I'll redo it.
Then reassemble the rest of the motor, rebuild the forks and buy some wheel bearings.

Cheers guys

104715-150216164933.jpeg

Another perk of coming home.
 
Couple questions for you all:

1) What do you normally do with the clutch? Do you automatically replace it on builds or check it out and see if it's salvageable? My friction disks all check out in spec and everything looks pretty good with only slight wear in the basket. What do you think?

104715-170216223920.jpeg

104715-170216223846.jpeg

104715-170216223814.jpeg


2) How thoroughly should I scrub the ports on my head? The intake side is pretty clean and the exhaust side is, well, exhausty. I'm hesitant to go crazy with solvents because I already painted the head.
104715-170216224015.jpeg




3) I couldn't find any torque specs on the engine case bolts. I saw in a 350 twin assembly video that another member posted here it was 11 ft/lbs, so that's what I set them at. What's the consensus on that?

Cheers
 
In general with the clutch, if everything checks out in spec just use it. Make sure your steels are not warped out of spec. Springs too although it is suggested to replace them even if they are good, they are 30-40 years old after all.

Torque spec on 360s can be fun, in general what I do is if I don't have a specific spec for it I look up the size of the bolt in the torque spec section of the manual and compare it to the others and use the middle spec for that bolt. The little bolts on the case should be around 5-8 ft-lbs, the larger ones should be around 14-18 ft-lbs.

Far as cleaning the ports, just scratch out the worst of it and leave it alone. Run good quality gas through it when you use it and it will clean itself if you ride it plenty. DO replace the copper crush washers though, they are one use only, if you take the pipes off you need to replace them.
 
frogman said:
In general with the clutch, if everything checks out in spec just use it. Make sure your steels are not warped out of spec. Springs too although it is suggested to replace them even if they are good, they are 30-40 years old after all.

Torque spec on 360s can be fun, in general what I do is if I don't have a specific spec for it I look up the size of the bolt in the torque spec section of the manual and compare it to the others and use the middle spec for that bolt. The little bolts on the case should be around 5-8 ft-lbs, the larger ones should be around 14-18 ft-lbs.

Far as cleaning the ports, just scratch out the worst of it and leave it alone. Run good quality gas through it when you use it and it will clean itself if you ride it plenty. DO replace the copper crush washers though, they are one use only, if you take the pipes off you need to replace them.

Right on. I have a new set of crush washers so I'm all good on that front. Good call on the bolts, thanks.

How would I go about checking warpage on the steel plates? Put them on a flat surface and measure with a caliper?
 
Lay them on a flat surface like a tile or piece of glass. Use a feeler gauge to measure the gap if there is any and compare to the specs.
 
I made a little more progress on the motor this weekend, cleaned and installed the head, torqued it down installed the generator and starter motor was feeling good, then bam...my progress was halted by my cam which refuses to go into its home.

Does anyone have any tips on how to install these bleeping things into the head? It's the stock cam and sprocket. I can get the sprocket over the first lobe but its on such a sharp angle I can't do anything else after that....Super frustrating... I spent over an hour trying to put it in there and almost resorted to taking a grinder to the sprocket before cooler heads prevailed and I just left it.
 
Take the chain off the sprocket and hold it with a string or something. Slide the cam into the sprocket most of the way then place the chain back on, make sure it is in the other one down on the crank and then put the sprocket back on the cam.

If you still have the rear tensioner blade in place remove it, that will give you some more slack.
 
frogman said:
Take the chain off the sprocket and hold it with a string or something. Slide the cam into the sprocket most of the way then place the chain back on, make sure it is in the other one down on the crank and then put the sprocket back on the cam.

If you still have the rear tensioner blade in place remove it, that will give you some more slack.

Thanks for all the insight Frogman. It worked like a charm and took maybe 10 minutes...
104715-230216225557.jpeg


For future reference is that the way to do it on every bike? Or will it really vary between motors?

Also: Here's my homemade cam chain push bar tool made out of 3mm all thread and some torch action. It served me well.
104715-230216225726.jpeg
 
jnorman said:
Thanks for the compliments guys. You can send me covers but shop rates apply, lol.

I probably have 15+ hours into the clutch cover alone. I'm not sure I'll ever do it this intensely again but it's been a great exercise in patience and fun to see come out.

Materials:
Beer
Degreaser
220 Grit
400 Grit
600 Grit
1000 Grit
Black polish compound with sisal wheel
Brown polish with stitch wheel
*I didn't hit those with the loose leaf wheel and white rouge.

The key for me was to make sure I sanded in the same direction (either horizontally or vertically) across the part and then turn exactly 90 degrees for the next stage and sand until all of the marks from the previous sanding are removed.

Every stage of sanding was wet sanded with water.

After each stage of sanding I washed the part and changed rubber gloves.

After the 1000 grit (and washing) I turned it 90 degrees again and used the sisal wheel and black rouge. Make sure you hold the part very tightly... I had one piece hit the floor. Also, be aware of the nut at the end of the bench grinder, it can knick the part.

I used cotton gloves for the buffing wheel and used a separate set of gloves for each wheel so there was no cross contamination of buffing compound.

After I finished with the first stage of compound I switched to rubber gloves, dumped some dry flour on the part and buffed it with a rag to remove any excess compound, oil and moisture. Then on to the final wheel and brown compound. Same flour treatment with rubber gloves. Then some form of aluminum polish.

I used an 8 inch bench grinder/buffing wheel.

Very nice job! Well done. Are you going to coat the aluminum? Do you think it will stay this nice?
 
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