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Author Topic: Biting the hand that feeds all of us... or however that saying goes.  (Read 1361 times)

Offline J-Rod10

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There's 2 sides to every coin.

The guy is a total douche for suing for the crazy amount of money that he is suing for.

On the other hand though I believe he has a right to do so. The company putting on the event has a responsibility for the safety of the riders, putting a damn sandbag anywhere near the track IS in my book gross negligence. In a car event it would be fine, but for a motorcycle day no way. That's a way to get someone killed who should have just slid out.

You guys cant tell me that if they randomly placed concrete barriers in the run-off areas that it would still be the riders fault? Same thing, it's a danger to the rider and should not be there. There is a reason turns on a track are free of obstructions, so that WHEN not IF you run off you don't die. Putting things there be it a sand bag, a concrete barrier or a 9 foot rubber dildo is unacceptable if you ask me.

I think he has every right to sue for medical expenses, but is a total asshole for trying to get 15 million out of it.
Pretty much my thoughts on it.

Dick for trying to get rich off it. The track people are idiots.

Offline J-Rod10

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Those bags took it from a run off, and re-enter, to a end over end crash with significant injury.

Offline Redbird

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wait... you're not supposed to..

daily routine is scrapped I guess
I just switched to gas powered chainsaws and Almond Joy bars. I refused to eliminate the Slapchop, because by God, that's just too much fun ;)

After seeing the vid, I agree, it was poorly placed sandbags.
But my thought is, If it was discussed in the riders meeting... that he missed... it's on him. But even if it wasn't specifically discussed, he made several laps with bags in place and never felt the need to alert anyone of his concerns. Not until HE fucked up and subsequently hit one, that it became an issue.
He made a choice to ride in what he considers/considered an unsafe environment. Both by missing the drivers meeting, and not following a "see something, say something" train of thought after completing more than a few laps.

And just to briefly revisit the poor judgment of the track officials... What respectable track organization allows a rider to participate after missing the riders meeting?
Every trackday I ever attended had the rule "You miss the riders meeting, you don't ride".
When you are Dead, you don't know that you are Dead. It is difficult only for Others.

It is the same when you are Stupid.

Offline MiniatureNinja

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There's 2 sides to every coin.
life isn't a coin. We are in a Linear universe - only ONE set of events happened.

Quote
The guy is a total douche for suing for the crazy amount of money that he is suing for.

On the other hand though I believe he has a right to do so. The company putting on the event has a responsibility for the safety of the riders, putting a damn sandbag anywhere near the track IS in my book gross negligence. In a car event it would be fine, but for a motorcycle day no way. That's a way to get someone killed who should have just slid out.

you can't have it both ways. These lawsuits are his way for him to get someone else on the hook for his multiple mistakes. he assumes liability. A sandbag is not "GROSS" Negligance - at least any more than a tack with 8" ruts from erosion would be considered.

Quote
You guys cant tell me that if they randomly placed concrete barriers in the run-off areas that it would still be the riders fault? Same thing, it's a danger to the rider and should not be there. There is a reason turns on a track are free of obstructions, so that WHEN not IF you run off you don't die. Putting things there be it a sand bag, a concrete barrier or a 9 foot rubber dildo is unacceptable if you ask me.

who told you to put concrete barriers there? who did put them there? no one? oh.
BTW, the track and riding surface WAS free of obstruction. he came off the track in an area several experts have already stated he should not have - you cannot plan for every possible contingency and it's not the track or even organizer's responsibility to do so. If there were sand traps there and the rider broke his wrist... we'd be here still.


Quote
I think he has every right to sue for medical expenses, but is a total asshole for trying to get 15 million out of it.

of course he has a right to sue... he doesn't have a right to win that suit... and I hope to god he doesn't, and I also hope he never gets on a motorcycle again, or sells a motorcycle, or goes anywhere near a motorcycle. I hope every painful step he takes is a reminder to own up to his mistakes. I have a right to feel that way.
'75 Honda CB360 - thread

Offline Rat_ranger

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IMO if the bags hadn't been there he would have had the same result.  You can see the erosion the sand bags are helping control.  He would have gone into those and probably ended up tumbling.
Xs650

Offline SONIC.

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life isn't a coin. We are in a Linear universe - only ONE set of events happened.

you can't have it both ways. These lawsuits are his way for him to get someone else on the hook for his multiple mistakes. he assumes liability. A sandbag is not "GROSS" Negligance - at least any more than a tack with 8" ruts from erosion would be considered.

who told you to put concrete barriers there? who did put them there? no one? oh.
BTW, the track and riding surface WAS free of obstruction. he came off the track in an area several experts have already stated he should not have - you cannot plan for every possible contingency and it's not the track or even organizer's responsibility to do so. If there were sand traps there and the rider broke his wrist... we'd be here still.


of course he has a right to sue... he doesn't have a right to win that suit... and I hope to god he doesn't, and I also hope he never gets on a motorcycle again, or sells a motorcycle, or goes anywhere near a motorcycle. I hope every painful step he takes is a reminder to own up to his mistakes. I have a right to feel that way.

You can be as angry as you want but it doesn't make you right  ;D

The issue was not his mistake, being a less than optimal rider wasn't the problem, the problem was that he had a ridiculous hazard literally 3 feet off the track in an area that is designed and designated a runoff area that's supposed to be relatively safe  to wreck in. That's the whole point of going to a track to ride like that as opposed to doing so on the street, you can over do it and not hit a god damn sand bag. You're supposed to be able to run off the track and lay it over and walk away, not hit a damn sand bag (or an 8" deep rut) and break your femur.

While we're on that point I don't think the huge ruts are okay either, that's poor track maintenance. Why bother going to a track if the consequences for spirited riding are the same as on the street?

Again you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong  ;D

Offline SONIC.

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IMO if the bags hadn't been there he would have had the same result.  You can see the erosion the sand bags are helping control.  He would have gone into those and probably ended up tumbling.

Probably true. But those shouldn't have been there either, it's a danger to the rider and the responsibility of the track to take care of in my opinion.

Offline irk miller

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the problem was that he had a ridiculous hazard literally 3 feet off the track in an area that is designed and designated a runoff area that's supposed to be relatively safe  to wreck in.

That is not a designated runoff area.  It's sand because it's a desert and the runoff the sandbags are placed to prevent inhibits vegetation growth.  The run off areas are dark grey.  He was through the turn.

My biggest contention is that he attempted to sue for $15mill, then he lied about what actually happened to manipulate impression of fault on his part, ie. "he took evasive action to avoid a slower rider." 

Offline teazer

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Lots of good points.  Nice discussion.

There seems to be enough blame to go around. He should not have been on the track after missing the riders meeting. Running off was entirely his own fault - so that's two areas of contributory negligence.

That sandbag probably should not have been there.  It's supposed to be a run off area FFS.  And should not flip bikes when they use it.  That said, it was not a world class race event with a cast of thousands grooming the surfaces, so it is important that people running events point out the dangers to riders.

And on top of that he's a total dick for suing for anything much over the medical expenses not covered by his own insurance.  IMHO.

« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2018, 01:34:31 by teazer »

Offline Redbird

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Sorry, your reply reminded me of this ;D


*this was solely my observation and in no way a representation/interpretation of Sonics actual reply
When you are Dead, you don't know that you are Dead. It is difficult only for Others.

It is the same when you are Stupid.