The XS, and the Sidecar of Death

Maritime said:

PM BradJ he has built a high exhaust for the XS650, he should be able to help you out.

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Sure did, wiseguy helped me realize the header lengths are different on the Pandemonium Choppers pipes.. That may not be a bid deal from what I've read, but I also don't want to do this twice and hold up being on the road for a stupid set of pipes.

Might just f' it all and get Hughs Handbuilt Speedster Pipes with baffles. They route under the bike..

http://hughshandbuilt.com/shop/hhb-speedster-pipes-silver/

Internal baffles are always a crappy way to 'silence' open pipes
They are also pretty damn expensive for a welded up set, you could almost buy a welder and make set using mandrel bends

Ordered the Pandemonium Choppers High pipes (Ya Mamma) despite much appreciated advise. Was told cutting the left cylinder header after the flange and at the bottom end of the 180 where it straightens and adding 2 inches of straight pipe to each will even out the header lengths where they parallel.

Not sure if I'll even mess with that though. I know same length pipes is often a goal when designing an exhaust system, but have read a number of articles with dyno test from Cone Engineering and other manufactures that suggest slightly different pipe lengths should not be of major concern.

I plan to cut these pipes even, add a 2 into 1 collector (1.5" OD to 2"OD) and then the 12" SS Cone Engineering slip on 2" ID muffler I've selected. If I need to add to the length of the left side header, I will still be able to do that after the collector is welded without having to redo that or any of the mounting. Wish me luck.

Picked up for $100. Going to round up the a fitting I need to connect to my C25 tank today and see if I can get back on the road by the end of the week.

That was a hundred bucks well spent!

Haven't really welded for a few years, looks like I should have practiced a bit, but it will do.

Just waiting on pipes and a tube bend for the rear frame mount.

John that is just fine for being a bit rusty, not a stack of dimes but it ain't a pile of booger either LOL

Looks ten times better than the factory welds on my bikes!

Hope to finish up these 2-1 high pipes tonight..

Looks good!

Am I correct that the pipes can't come off without being cut?

Haha, at the moment they can be pulled out of the exhaust ports and dropped with a bit of finagling, but not removed from the bike. I have ordered a V-band clamp and flanges that will create a removable butt joint on the right side pipe though. Couldn't find what looked like a good sealing 2-1 slip on collector in the 1.5 ID TO 2" OD size..

That will work, look great John/

Got the exhaust all welded up with springs and hangers last night. Going to try and figure out some heat shields tonight. I have quite a few CL350 shields laying around, see what I can figure out..

Everything is really waiting on a piece of bent tubing to add to the frame for the rear lower mount of the sidecar. Hopefully that gets to me on Monday. Even wired up the sidecar fender lights last night.

Johnny,
Your build shows quite a lot of thought and expertise. I have a bit of experience with sidecars, my first was a Velorex on a 83'XS650 back in '92. I do think you should reconsider your position of the lower rear attachment. The lower front and rear attachments should be at the same height as not to intereact when adjusting toe-in or lean-out. These adjustments should be independent of each other; with them uneven lean-out and toe-in will changes dependently with either movement this will make it very difficult to align properly.

Good luck with your build and I'll be interested to see and hear about the final results.

Ed

Newagerocker said:

Johnny,
Your build shows quite a lot of thought and expertise. I have a bit of experience with sidecars, my first was a Velorex on a 83'XS650 back in '92. I do think you should reconsider your position of the lower rear attachment. The lower front and rear attachments should be at the same height as not to intereact when adjusting toe-in or lean-out. These adjustments should be independent of each other; with them uneven lean-out and toe-in will changes dependently with either movement this will make it very difficult to align properly.

Good luck with your build and I'll be interested to see and hear about the final results.

Ed

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Thanks Ed, I appriciate the advise (and any other your could give), I quicky realized that the lower mounts needed to be level and that the rear stanchion needed to be mounted differently. This picture shows the current locations of the mounts.

I had a friend bend the tube for the rear mount as I couldn't bend the .120 wall DOM tubing I decided to go with. I am just waiting for the mail man to bring it to me and then I'm pretty much on the road to test things out!

I am beyond novice here, so any advise is definitely appriciated and welcome!

I have several suggestions that may be of interest to you. Staying close to current topic of attachment and alignment, I'd suggest a lean-out of approximately 1 degree and toe-in at about 1/2". Widen the track the more lean-out and toe-in would be in order. If I remember correctly my rigs track from outside of rear tire to outside of sidecar tire was only 49". Narrow rigs are a bit more unstable, fly easily but steer more lightly, I soon got used to it. I never use any added ballast. Lean-out is most easily measured with one of those cheap magnetic protractors attached to the rear disk, handlebars straight, driver in the seat and approximate expected weight in the sidecar. Toe-in is the measured difference between front and rear width. Just behind rear wheel and just in front of the front wheel to projected length of sidecar wheel. Usually done with two straight lengths of pipes, tubing, carpenters laser, etc. Sidecar axle lead appears to be about right in your photo, usuallly folks are stuck with whatever they get after attachment points are set anyway. I don't want to overload you or sound like a know-it-all so I'll stop for now. If there is anything specific you have a questin about let me know I'll try to answer it.

Ed

I've been told with the weight of this rig (on the heavy side) to shoot for a toe-in as large as 3/4"-1.5". Unfortunately this is not a universal mounting rig and was built specifically for the Dnepr, the ball mount receivers were actually reinforced and welded in place, I think by a previous owner, so I have lost some adjustability there.

From the measurements I've done I think I can have a toe-in range of 1"-2" any less might require me to create an extended front ball mount. I realized a few nights ago that the ball mounts I have are of two different lengths and I mounted the shorter one up front, I've started to grind the weld off so I can switch them, at least the longer one was not welded up yet. Novice move..

I've been setting this all up with the bike leaned out about 1/8", but leanout shouldn't be a problem to adjust.

Most suggestions I've seen on lead are around 8"- 10" and I'm at 9.5" so I feel good about that, except for the fact that I have absolutely no play with that number.

Luckily I have a couple of good laser alignment tools and straight edges.

I'm really crossing my fingers that this isn't a complete wreck when I get it on the street, or at least that simple adjustments instead of full on modifications are warranted.


Thank you!

Sidecars are always a compromise of the pulling, pushing, and uneven rolling forces so there are no hard and fast rules. I just suggested some starting points. All adjustments are usually measured with driver on the bike and sidecar loaded. Wheel lead is the least important of adjustments. As I said regarding lead everyone is pretty much stuck with what they wind up with after establishing mounting points. So you are definitely OK there. Too much toe-in manifests itself in severe and uneven tire wear (both rear and sidecar) not enough will result in pulling from the sidecar. I've never seen an outfit that required more than 1 1/4" of toe-in. It's sometimes difficult to tell if you need more lean-out or more toe-in, that's when experimentation is on the menu, I usuallly opt for more lean-out. I think you are being a bit cheap with 1/8" lean-out as that usually equates to less than 1/2 degree and you'll find it quite difficult to make left turns (USA) especially on high centerbanked roads.

You seem quite organized and level headed to me, so I think you're approaching this project competently. When I was mounting my first sidecar a dear friend and riding buddy encouraged me saying "it ain't rocket science!" he was right.

After you get it rolling, I'll tell you some of the things I did to make it handle better and be more enjoyable.

Ed

Attached is a pic of my current sport touring outfit.

Crap man, that is a nice setup! What is the brake system like on that sidecar and what brand is it?