136 mph 200cc tiger cub

I had a 67 'sloper' at one time,
That needed 23" or 27" long reverse cone megga's (I think probably 27", was a LONG time ago)
I think they came off a Triumph 500???
It was stupid loud though, at max rpm it could easily be heard from 4 miles away on a still evening and really put me off loud pipes (even as a 17yr old)
If your going LSR, you will probably have to get cones rolled, 14 degree included angle ;)
 
teazer said:
We found that extra ignition timing helped all through the powerband and run 45-47 degrees. At 50 degrees you lose power everywhere and the same at 40 degrees or less, but engines and fuels are not all the same. The timing that allows your motor to rev is probably optimal for that configuration.

Hondas seem to work best with long megaphones and the old race kit megs were too short. That one looks short, but try it. Go with a short tailpipe before the megaphone that is suitably larger than the primaries (headers).

I recognize that nice looking 68 sloper in a 64 CB160 chassis, with CB200 head, VM26 carbs and crank mounted Dyna S. It's one I built and it's still in the garage last time I checked. Headers came from a cheap swap meet 400 Bandit 4 into 1 that provided enough bends to make it work. COllector was made in house and tailpipe was from some muffler shop bends with a CR125 rubber anti-vibration mount.
yea Teazer we have your work of art in our shed of speed for inspiration.
 

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PJ, Remember the old Stanley Schoefield (sp?) Sound Stories and Castrol TT movies back in the sixties with the wail of the works Hondas at the IOM TT? The sound was simply amazing and as you mentioned, it could be heard for miles.
 
Talked to Keith Martin of Big D today and he doubts that the cub motor was used in the streamliner. I sent him the link and I shot some pix of Dick Manns 71 BSA Daytona winner.
 

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You set my curiosity off so I went searching. Found this little piece on Bill Martin's Cub streamliner. Pretty interesting. Looks like the ante has been upped to 139.820.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CD0QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jockeyjournal.com%2F%3Fcat%3D7%26paged%3D6&ei=_hTNUcSFMsXRigLFx4CAAw&usg=AFQjCNHeEl0LfRac9jIc4isOW7jSFDAyiQ&bvm=bv.48572450,d.cGE


And a piece on the Zeglin Moody Cub.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smokeandthrottle.com%2F2011%2F01%2Fsupercharged-triumph-tiger-cub-goes-for.html&ei=_hTNUcSFMsXRigLFx4CAAw&usg=AFQjCNF0Kn28kSAy051WZitK5t7CPKJdZg&bvm=bv.48572450,d.cGE
 
NortonGuy said:
"This bike" is in the national motorcycle museum in London last I knew. But it has the 650 engine in it, don't know what happened to the Cub mill.

The bike was destroyed when this museum burned to the ground, it was wood(brilliant huh?). Big D cycle rebuilt it and shipped it back to the museum by now I am pretty sure.

Just a bit of housekeeping in case any of you guys decide to visit the "National Motorcycle Museum" ...................

It's NOT in London, but in Solihull, which is a suburb of Birmingham in the Midlands. Next door to the National Exhibition Centre.

The museum complex was built mainly from publicly donated fundraisers - although privately owned [ ?? ] And no, they were NOT wooden sheds or structures [ but LOADS of glass ] - but when it was built [ and expanded ] there were no building regulation requirements for water sprinkler systems !!! Many priceless machines were lost forever to the fire, although some - seemingly beyond salvation, were eventually rebuilt.

It's now used as a conference centre [ in addition to museum ]. Oh yes, and it's 20 minutes from where I live.
 
Hoofhearted said:
You set my curiosity off so I went searching. Found this little piece on Bill Martin's Cub streamliner. Pretty interesting. Looks like the ante has been upped to 139.820.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CD0QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jockeyjournal.com%2F%3Fcat%3D7%26paged%3D6&ei=_hTNUcSFMsXRigLFx4CAAw&usg=AFQjCNHeEl0LfRac9jIc4isOW7jSFDAyiQ&bvm=bv.48572450,d.cGE


And a piece on the Zeglin Moody Cub.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smokeandthrottle.com%2F2011%2F01%2Fsupercharged-triumph-tiger-cub-goes-for.html&ei=_hTNUcSFMsXRigLFx4CAAw&usg=AFQjCNF0Kn28kSAy051WZitK5t7CPKJdZg&bvm=bv.48572450,d.cGE
way to hang on Bill!!!! Heck of a cross wind!
http://youtu.be/jmbKDIKDKFo
 
Ha! You found that old chestnut. That was a good few years ago. With the crosswind they were holding the cars but let the bikes run. When you got to the line the starter would say "If you're dumb enough you can run." I. like a lot of bikes, run on the right side of the course. Cars tend to run on the left on in the center so the dirt tends to be a bit better on the right. The gust hit me about a mile out. The peel fairing presents a lot of fiberglass to a cross wind. So when that gust hit me it was right turn Clyde. It still wasn't a bad run. If I remember it was 126+.

I was at El Mirage last Sunday and spoke to Lonnie Martin. I asked him about the little streamliner. He said his dad put a 500 in it and crashed it at Bonneville. Never bothered to try and rebuild it. It was eventually dumped. Lonnie said he wished they had kept it. But at the time it was nothing more than a home brewed machine. Once it was bent badly it went to the trash. Shame we don't have enough foresight.
 
Hoofhearted said:
Ha! You found that old chestnut. That was a good few years ago. With the crosswind they were holding the cars but let the bikes run. When you got to the line the starter would say "If you're dumb enough you can run." I. like a lot of bikes, run on the right side of the course. Cars tend to run on the left on in the center so the dirt tends to be a bit better on the right. The gust hit me about a mile out. The peel fairing presents a lot of fiberglass to a cross wind. So when that gust hit me it was right turn Clyde. It still wasn't a bad run. If I remember it was 126+.

I was at El Mirage last Sunday and spoke to Lonnie Martin. I asked him about the little streamliner. He said his dad put a 500 in it and crashed it at Bonneville. Never bothered to try and rebuild it. It was eventually dumped. Lonnie said he wished they had kept it. But at the time it was nothing more than a home brewed machine. Once it was bent badly it went to the trash. Shame we don't have enough foresight.
When I was a kid I would get to read about heroes in the magazine but never got to chat with them. My wife is a teacher and we talk about the kids these days missing an important element in their character. We like to call it "true grit"! The ability to persevere and take a risk if need be. Your run epitomizes "true grit" the personification of that character trait.
 
Bill...I understand it takes a big butt to go fast with a little twin. So how fast will your Norton go with a Dustbin?
 

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How fast would it go with a dustbin? I don't honestly know but as it stands with the Peel I think there is another few mph left. I tend to run a bit on the rich side. I don't have the cash to grenade motors. I would love to try this Airtech set up. I think with that and lean the motor out a bit more 140-150 could be a reality.

lrzy.jpg
 
Hoofhearted said:
How fast would it go with a dustbin? I don't honestly know but as it stands with the Peel I think there is another few mph left. I tend to run a bit on the rich side. I don't have the cash to grenade motors. I would love to try this Airtech set up. I think with that and lean the motor out a bit more 140-150 could be a reality.

lrzy.jpg
Bill!!!! I found it! The pics of the last time the Ceegar at Bonneville! 1970 and Rusty Bradley was the rider! Rusty Bradley's mom was my wife's Sunday School Teacher!
Jack Wilson and Rusty in the Picture loading. This is definitely not a cub motor but it puts Rusty there...
http://www.saveourstreamliner.com/last.htm
 

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A couple of great photos!! I had no idea the Ceegar ran as late as 1970. Cool that you have a family connection too.


This was last year. Definitely one of the best views in the world.

http://youtu.be/r5EBHbk3Ito
 
Hoofhearted said:
A couple of great photos!! I had no idea the Ceegar ran as late as 1970. Cool that you have a family connection too.


This was last year. Definitely one of the best views in the world.

http://youtu.be/r5EBHbk3Ito
maybe my wife needs to run bonneville...her great uncle is Pete Dalio. That video is great! Most don't know how hard it is to set a LSR record at Bonneville! I have seen a couple of threads where some guys were ragging on a Bonneville record holder for going slower than their street bikes and he graciously nodded out of the conversation. To me it seems that the flat trackers did so well at Bonny because they understood grip and loss of grip??? All the LSR records we have watched your can here the loss of grip as power is applied through the gear changes??? Where would be a good place I could train Zeke to simulate those conditions? Can we go practice at Bonneville during the off season?

The other family connection is the Trident was the predecessor to my Daytona Super 3 and the Super 3 was ultimately the return to Triumphs greatness as that 1975 article asked "where did England go wrong...my S3 is Cosworth Tuned 0-60 3.7 seconds. May need to run her at the BUB when Zeke runs Lucky. A picture of my long lost sister and me..with our super 3's
 

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teazer said:
We found that extra ignition timing helped all through the powerband and run 45-47 degrees. At 50 degrees you lose power everywhere and the same at 40 degrees or less, but engines and fuels are not all the same. The timing that allows your motor to rev is probably optimal for that configuration.

Hondas seem to work best with long megaphones and the old race kit megs were too short. That one looks short, but try it. Go with a short tailpipe before the megaphone that is suitably larger than the primaries (headers).

I recognize that nice looking 68 sloper in a 64 CB160 chassis, with CB200 head, VM26 carbs and crank mounted Dyna S. It's one I built and it's still in the garage last time I checked. Headers came from a cheap swap meet 400 Bandit 4 into 1 that provided enough bends to make it work. COllector was made in house and tailpipe was from some muffler shop bends with a CR125 rubber anti-vibration mount.
Teazer we are getting serious about our ignition timing. I was wondering if you would clarify your comment on this string. Would we set our initial advance at @2000k rpms to 45 degrees?
 
I'd love to be able to contribute to this but my Weslake is very unhappy after 36 deg. advance.
 
CB200 has a small piston with a relatively high dome so needs more advance to run 10,000rpm.
I rarely use more than 36~38 degrees, pistons tend to start looking like mice were chewing on them ;D
 
crazypj said:
It would be 45~47 full advance
I would mark rotor and use timing light
thanks guys! Dodged a bullet with that one. We have been shopping for a digital timing light. Some have 90 degrees advance and some have 60 degrees. I watched a video on one of the digital lights timing a small block Chevy and it had 9 degrees advance and at speed ended up 20 something. The common sense bell started ringing in my head. Telling me that 45 must be full advance.

After installing our Dyna S we statically timed Lucky with a light at TDC. She still had a half of tank of 93 octane. You could tell dramatically without the advance she was sluggish. She did not want to rev to 10k like she'd did with the timing advanced.

Now when we were running our points and 93 octane we learned how to advance our timing be ear. We retarded the timing at idle until we died. Then we advanced our timing until the rpms picked up significantly and backed it off some. She ran great.

Now with the ignition system dialed in with iridium plugs, dyna S, dyna 5ohm coil, and 8mm Taylor plug wires with non resister caps... It was time to buy a good digital timing light. We will see if Crazypj is right that if we have a reversion problem it is because our intakes are too short. We extended our velocity stacks to a 120mm and put our filters over our stacks. Took her for a ride then checked the plugs...way rich. That was to be expected because we ran no filters on the dyno.

When I was young I learned a very important lesson on the golf course. This guy sandbagged me wearing tennis shoes, drinking a tall boy from his bag, and with an $80 set of clubs. He smiled and took my money. He said, "it is not the clubs that wins the game but the swing." That applies to tuning an engine for speed.

Thanks for your help guy!!!! PJ we just got another head from flea bay we were going to bandsaw to show my son how the exhaust port is slamming on the brakes. One of the combustion chambers looked like mice had been nibbling.
 

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