My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler

djsmiles said:
With the new cable I was able to get the bike to shift, I finally rode it last night but there's still a couple issues.
1. I have a difficult time finding neutral. I can shift down to 1st but when I click up to neutral it pops into 2nd too easily. Any suggestions on finding the right sweet spot?
2. It runs nice with no throttle but once I give it gas it pops and doesn't have much power. I know that I have short pipes and cheap air pods. But while adjusting the carbs with the adjuster screw with the special screwdriver, it doesn't matter which direction I turn the screw, nothing changes.
3. When I put my feet up on the foot pegs I get cramps in my hips, is there an adjustment for that? No? I'm just getting old? oh ok.

1 - Nope. I've found that a lot of the older Japanese bikes have this issue. Each bike is different but most of the time I kill the bike and then roll it back and forth a bit to find Neutral. Its worth checking pulling off the neutral stop bolt, and checking the spring is good and ball are in place. I wonder if fitting a stronger spring would help?
2- Did you jet it at all? Sounds like its running lean or you have an air leak.
3- No adjustment. Sounds like you need to change the riding position. You could probably make some brackets for the footpegs to lower them or move them to a better position, but youll have to modify the gear change lever and the brake setup.
 
1. What is a neutral stop bolt?
2. Air leak: I've put new gaskets between the carb holders and the engine, PJ rebuilt my carbs so the plugs are new, not sure where else to check. I still have the jets that PJ installed and haven't played with those at all.
Although when it's running and I put the choke on the bike dies and Im told it's not supposed to do that.
3. I was just kidding but those are great suggestions. My wife says I just need to do yoga.
 
The neutral stop assembly is what you feel "catching" the neutral position on the shift drum. Its a bolt that holds a spring and ball in place which fits into a detent on the shift drum to hold it in neutral. See diagram below: 12, 20-21, 13 is the spring and 25 is the ball. I'm thinking that over time, the spring loses some of its 'springy-ness' and the ball is more likely to bypass the detent rather than seating into it.
133053_2570691.gif


My suggestion for the carbs is to pull them off and make sure all the jets, and idle nozzles on the carb body are clear and clean. Set your A/F to factory settings. Bench sync them using a paperclip underneath the butterflies (youll have to use the idle speed screw to get them to open wide enough, then the sync screw/locknut that you use the special tool on to get them to both have the same drag on the paperclip when its inserted under the butterfly). Put them back on and fire it up, then take some starter fluid and spray all around the boots on the intake and exhaust side and see if the RPM rises. If it does, you have a vacuum leak and you need to either replace the boots, or seal the mating surface between the head and intake manifolds with a very light coat of Hondabond.

You can do this part regardless while you have the carbs off as it wont hurt anything if its not causing a problem. I made new gaskets and smeared a super thin coat of Yamabond on both sides. Installed the manifolds and let it cure overnight before starting.
 
djsmiles said:
Although when it's running and I put the choke on the bike dies and Im told it's not supposed to do that.

It will die if it’s remotley warmed and you close the choke fully. The choke lever has a small detent. Once it fires up on cold start. After just a few seconds move the choke lever to the small detent stop. Once warmed up enough, open the choke fully.
 
djsmiles said:
2. It runs nice with no throttle but once I give it gas it pops and doesn't have much power. I know that I have short pipes and cheap air pods. But while adjusting the carbs with the adjuster screw with the special screwdriver, it doesn't matter which direction I turn the screw, nothing changes.

An old post I made about carbs...looking back at it I forgot to add anything about synchronization. Haha
Those were the days.

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=63133.0
 
djsmiles said:
2. It runs nice with no throttle but once I give it gas it pops and doesn't have much power. I know that I have short pipes and cheap air pods. But while adjusting the carbs with the adjuster screw with the special screwdriver, it doesn't matter which direction I turn the screw, nothing changes.

I had this issue with my 90. I'm pretty sure the jet needle is controlling fuel at that point so I made an adjustment to that and it fixed it right up. Try moving the clip on the jet needle up or down to get the right afr. Clip up = more lean, pushes needle down. Clip down = more rich, pulls needle up.



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So I took the bike to a local guy who has a small bike shop for a final professional tune up and safety inspection. I asked him to check the charging system since I don't have a multi-meter or volt meter. He said the battery won't charge up more than 10v. So I called Anti-gravity who said if the battery drops below 9.8v there's no way to charge it back up, basically the battery is garbage. And without a full charge = not enough power to the spark plugs = the whole thing not running right. Does this sound right? what kind of battery can never go dead? $179 battery and now I have to buy another one? The company said they would give me a discount off retail price but now I have to wait for the whole return process and wait for them to inspect it and ship a new one. it's going to be winter before I get this back on the road but that one 5 mile ride to the mechanic's shop was worth it.
 
djsmiles said:
So I took the bike to a local guy who has a small bike shop for a final professional tune up and safety inspection. I asked him to check the charging system since I don't have a multi-meter or volt meter. He said the battery won't charge up more than 10v. So I called Anti-gravity who said if the battery drops below 9.8v there's no way to charge it back up, basically the battery is garbage. And without a full charge = not enough power to the spark plugs = the whole thing not running right. Does this sound right? what kind of battery can never go dead? $179 battery and now I have to buy another one? The company said they would give me a discount off retail price but now I have to wait for the whole return process and wait for them to inspect it and ship a new one. it's going to be winter before I get this back on the road but that one 5 mile ride to the mechanic's shop was worth it.

Lithium batteries are very sensitive to discharge and overcharge - the way they work is that their very chemistry themselves is what is responsible for the voltage, which is why they are all 3.7 18650 batteries (the AG is a 4 cell, 8 cell, or 12) and they are wired in parallel or series to get you to 14.8 volts

you run a VERY real risk of catching the battery on FIRE (exploding) and causing serious damage - I know because it happened to me while riding once! dead lithium batteries are BOMBS

dont count on AG warranty, they are very good about their exceptions to warranty and your bike is not on their list of authorized bikes even with upgraded charging system (same for me)

there are very few lead-acid batteries that offer the same power/size ratio so you're kind of out of luck there unless you want to rework your battery location

BTW I have had my AG battery for over a year now with no complications since upgrading charging system with Ricks hotshot kit made for lithium batteries
 
djsmiles said:
So I took the bike to a local guy who has a small bike shop for a final professional tune up and safety inspection. I asked him to check the charging system since I don't have a multi-meter or volt meter. He said the battery won't charge up more than 10v. So I called Anti-gravity who said if the battery drops below 9.8v there's no way to charge it back up, basically the battery is garbage. And without a full charge = not enough power to the spark plugs = the whole thing not running right. Does this sound right? what kind of battery can never go dead? $179 battery and now I have to buy another one? The company said they would give me a discount off retail price but now I have to wait for the whole return process and wait for them to inspect it and ship a new one. it's going to be winter before I get this back on the road but that one 5 mile ride to the mechanic's shop was worth it.

This is part of the reason we only sell EarthX batteries. They have internal electronics to protect from overcharging and over discharging. The warranty is really good, too. It's not pro rated or any of that kind of garbage. Designed and assembled in the USA, too.
 
Hey MiniatureNinja, what is Ricks hotshot kit? Do you have a link? Oh I found it. https://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-electronic-parts-ricks-electric-hot-shot-honda-cb350-cl350-cb360-cl360-charging-kit-99-101.html

Sonreir, looking at your site now but the page for batteries is kind of hard to read, maybe it just isn't loading for me properly here at work. Which battery would be comparable to the 8 cell AG battery? I built my battery box around the size of the battery so it must be similar in size too.

Thanks
 
EarthX does their sizing a little differently because they use prismatic cells instead of cylinders.

Any of the ETX12 series is a pretty good match for an eight cell equivalent, but you might be able to fit an ETX18 into the same space, which would be a better option if you have the budget.
 
Personally I've never been a fan of Lion batteries, but, the latest generation have a bunch of safeguards built in so they are becoming usable. Anti-Gravity have had years to improve their batteries and build in circuits to protect battery from over charge or over discharge but they seem to haver done nothing other than'take the money and run'. Anyone wanting to run a Lion battery needs to do a lot more research and only buy something with built in protection. Matt has solution with Earth-X so that would be best option?
 
Sonreir, I'm trying to understand the difference between batteries. The ETX12 is a tiny bit bigger than the AG 8 cell and not sure if it will fit. By comparing the ETZ5G with the ETX12A I see the smaller battery has more cranking amps but a smaller max charge, which I would think 15a is enough. What does EqAh mean? Is that the big factor? What am I missing?

ETX12A ETZ5G
Voltage: 12 V Voltage: 12 V
EqAh: 12 EqAh: 3.4
Pulse Crank Amps (PCA): 220A Pulse Crank Amps (PCA): 240A
Cold Crank Amps (CCA): 135A Cold Crank Amps (CCA): 140A
Recommended Charge Amps: 1-5A Recommended Charge Amps: 1-5A
Max Charge Amps: 20A Max Charge Amps: 15A
 
I used a 12v 5ah Sealed lead acid home security system battery on my 360. It cost me all of $20 and lasted 4 years with zero issues. Just saying.
 
I've been using 8Ah from emergency light/fire alarm, prices vary from about $12.00 to $35.00, depends how quick you need it.
 
EqAh stands for Amp Hour Equivalency. It's meant to allow people to compare LI-ION to lead acid. I don't think it does a very good job of that.

I have an ETZ5G on my 350 and it's OK, but I definitely would have gone with the ETX12 if I had room. The ETX series has better internal electronics and is better suited to life on the street. The ETZ is more for dirt bikes that usually only runs some of the lights off the DC system.
 
I'm sure I could make a cheap battery work in my scenario but I've learned with this bike to do things right the first time (which I did not do from the beginning) so I just ordered the ETX12. I'm not even going to mail the AG battery back to be offered a discounted battery, I just left an accurate review on Amazon though :)
 
djsmiles said:
I'm sure I could make a cheap battery work in my scenario but I've learned with this bike to do things right the first time (which I did not do from the beginning) so I just ordered the ETX12. I'm not even going to mail the AG battery back to be offered a discounted battery, I just left an accurate review on Amazon though :)

in reality I dont understand their nearly cult following among the harley community

I made a mistake with them - and I'm rather stuck with it, because my bike will NOT accept any other battery
 
I rode it back from the shop and it died 3 times. the last time I was 3 blocks from home and it would not start so I had to walk it home. Kind of embarrassing. The mechanic told me the rectifier body is supposed to be grounded to the frame and my frame is powder coated so I need to take care of that. I have the new battery coming. I got new carb boots on eBay for $70, genuine Honda.
Oh here's a weird thing, after sitting for a while the fuel filters will be full of gas. Then after it runs a while they will be empty. That doesn't seem normal. This is the kind of filter I got:
https://www.amazon.com/WIX-Filters-33982-Filter-Housing/dp/B004AHR41M/ref=sr_1_5?srs=13651529011&ie=UTF8&qid=1534989828&sr=8-5&keywords=Motorcycle+Inline+Fuel+Filter

I may have found the answer to that last part "A clean filter will flow better, therefore a new filter will be empty becuase its clean and the gas is just pouring through it.
A dirty filter will be forcing the suction of the engine to pull gas down, therefore the dirty filter will be full because there is friction holding the gas in."
Sound right?
 
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