Obtaining a LEGAL registration for an untitled bike

grandpaul

Author, "Old Bikes"
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There has been a lot of discussion on this topic, and nobody has spelled it out, so I thought I might do so.

I have registered at least 8 bikes through Vermont, COMPLETELY LEGALLY.

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You must have a valid Bill Of Sale to start with, and it MUST include: Date of sale, Seller's name and address, bike's serial number, bike year, make, model & displacement, amount paid, and odometer reading. Or, use the VT form.

I have also used TWO Bills of Sale, one for the frame, and one for the engine, in the case of a Triton.

VT registration application - http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VD-119-Vehicle_Reg_Tax_Title_App.pdf
Instructions - http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VD-119i-Registration_App_Instructions.pdf
Bill Of Sale - http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VT-005-Bill_Of_Sale_Odometer_Cert_0.pdf

Take a clear photo of the bike from the side, as close as you can to get the whole bike in the shot, and rotate the camera frame horizontal so there's not a lot of background above or below. USE THE "BEFORE" PHOTO(S) IF BASKET CASE!

Go to NADA website, select the year & model, find the bike's value, and print out the sheet - http://www.nadaguides.com/Motorcycles

I have at times included a detailed statement challenging the NADA value, based on the fact that certain bikes were obtained as rough basket cases or incomplete, rusty rollers. I was successful by simply extrapolating the lower value based on NADA's values for "Average", Good", and "Excellent", and keeping that number reasonably close to the lowest NADA price if there was a big gap from purchase price to NADA value.

Take the bike to whichever of these will perform the VIN check and sign the VT form, and can provide you with the inspector's statement on their letterhead - state vehicle safety inspection station, police department, highway patrol station, DMV, County Tax Assessor's office, etc.

I have a local State vehicle inspection station that has done dozens of inspections for me over the years; I provide their "letterhead" that I made myself with their shop's logo and address info at the top, a single-sentence statement, and a signature line. Took me 5 minutes to produce with MS Word.

Calculate the tax, add it to the registration fee, and include that amount in a check or money order with the forms, photo, and print-outs, and mail it off WITH CORRECT POSTAGE!

Done.

In about 2 weeks, you get the registration receipt, sometimes same time you get the plate. In a couple more days you get the registration card and a little sticker to put on the plate (not sure why they don't send the whole mess at once, they just don't)

Never worry about buying an untitled motorcycle again, as long as you know the seller is legit, and you can come back to him in a pinch. I've found life is easier if I simply never worry.
 
Much better write up than the other thread on here. Great job and thank you. I need to get on the ball with 2 of mine.
 
Thanks for the nice write-up. I've done 4 bikes this way and it works beautifully. I've even gotten lazy and stopping including a picture. A couple of times I accidentally overpaid and they sent me a refund check.
 
Legal? Certainly in the UK, creating a counterfeit VIN inspectors report would be considered a fraud, and you'd risk ending up picking up the soap for Bubba every night if you got caught.
 
Part Two is identifying exactly how you can (or can not) obtain an actual legal motor vehicle title from the state where you reside - once you have the VT registration in hand.
 
The Limey said:
Legal? Certainly in the UK, creating a counterfeit VIN inspectors report would be considered a fraud, and you'd risk ending up picking up the soap for Bubba every night if you got caught.
I never said I was creating a counterfeit form.

I created a LETTERHEAD with the EXACT CONTACT INFORMATION and logo for the inspector, who runs a very small shop and HAS NO LETTERHEAD, or need of one, until this VT application required one. He gave me permisssion to do so, so it is IN NO WAY illegitimate.

All the form states, is that HIS company is certified, and HE is licensed to conduct vehicle inspection for the state, and includes his certification number. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ILLEGAL.

ALL of this is IN ADDITION TO the VT form that requires the actual VIN be filled in by the inspector after visually verifying it, and the inspector also signs the VT form.
 
DeanJ said:
Part Two is identifying exactly how you can (or can not) obtain an actual legal motor vehicle title from the state where you reside - once you have the VT registration in hand.
IN ANY CASE of buying with a Bill of Sale, basket case, or out-of-state transfer, CHECK WITH YOUR LOCAL DMV AND ASK BEFORE YOU BUY.

MANY states along the East coast WILL NOT ACCEPT STATE OF MAINE REGISTRATIONS because that middleman system ITS out of 'Vegas was a scam operation and states caught on to the loophole.

VT relies on the nationwide system of state-certified operations that perform the actual 50-state database check for stolen vehicles.

IT IS TOTALLY LEGAL, but check with YOUR states' DMV to ensure they accept VT registrations. VT DMV also has a downloadable form on their letterhead stating their "no title on 15 year old & older vehicles" for states that require it (many do)
 
Hey Paul, have you ever tried transferring a VT reg back to Texas on a motorcycle that was previously titled/registered in Texas? I have an old KZ that was previously titled in TX, which I have already obtained a VT reg for, but I would like to get it transferred BACK over to Texas so its more appealing for buyers here.

I have heard TXDOT doesn't like this procedure, any insight?
 
Also, it may be necessary to point out that in many cases you will never receive a title. Georgia, for example, will allow you to register any vehicle manufactured before 1986 with a BOS and VIN check, but they do not issue a title. So, those that go through the Vermont process will get a transferable registration, but no title.
 
Should not be a problem at all AS LONG AS IT WAS NEVER REPORTED STOLEN.

Also, any old liens should have been cleared, and the original title signed off by the lending institution.

Those are the only two hindrances, and BOTH can be cleared with due diligence.
 
BarnBurner said:
FYI I think the VIN certification part of the process only applies to motorcycles over 300cc.

350cc is the cut off. I have done this on 4 bikes I believe. CB200, XL350, RV125 and KZ250 all without a VIN check.
 
grandpaul said:
Should not be a problem at all AS LONG AS IT WAS NEVER REPORTED STOLEN.

Also, any old liens should have been cleared, and the original title signed off by the lending institution.

Those are the only two hindrances, and BOTH can be cleared with due diligence.

Yes, I ran the VIN with TXDOT and it came back with no derogatory remarks, so should be good to go. Thanks
 
I have no experience with the Virginia method, nor am I familiar with any other states procedure, but here in Louisiana it's a fairly straightforward process.
I went through this with my DS7, and my Bro did with the CB400F.
Step 1: Go to a vehicle notary establishment. They will notarize the BOS and give you the proper paperwork for Step 2. (you will pay for the notary service)
Step 2: Bring said paperwork to your local Justice of the Peace. They will file said paperwork and give you a form to take to the State Police.
Step 3: Bring form to SP, and they will "inspect" the bike. This "inspection" just means they will verify that the VIN on the BOS matches the VIN on the bike. (this inspection is free)
Step 4: Bring verified/signed form from SP back to the JoP. They will do the background check on the vehicle, and will take a couple of weeks. Once the background check clears, a title will be issued to you (mailed to your home address). That will take another couple of weeks. (you will pay for these services)
Step 5: Once you receive your title, go to your local DMV and have the bike registered. (you will pay for this service)
Not difficult, but somewhat time consuming. I don't recall the breakdown of what each of the fees ran, but all totaled I paid approx. $200-250 from start to finish.
 
VT is $44 plus 6% of value of the bike, or sale amount, whichever is greater.

Extra $ for personalized / "vanity" plate. I think I paid $40 for "74 JPN" (John Player Norton)
 
DeanJ said:
Part Two is identifying exactly how you can (or can not) obtain an actual legal motor vehicle title from the state where you reside - once you have the VT registration in hand.

I've done this with a VT registration in MA, where they do issue titles. My understanding is that generally (and definitely in MA), states that do issue titles for old bikes will simply issue a title if presented with a registration for a bike from a state (or registered in a state) that does not issue a title but only a registration. Of course in MA you pay out the ass for anything having to do with the DMV, including a title.

I would also add -- if you live in AZ, there is a much simpler way to get a transferable title for a non-titled bike. Fill out an abandoned vehicle form and bring it in to the MVD (yes, AZ has to be different, it's MVD not DMV). You need a very brief affidavit as to how you came across the bike and this is where you fudge a little -- "the previous owner left it at my place 30 days ago and has given up all claim to the bike" generally suffices, and it's true if you can get the buyer to drop off the bike. It's got to be "abandoned" for 30 days. The MVD will check to see if it's stolen or has any claims, including writing to the most recent previous owner. Generally there is no response -- older bikes' owners have usually moved on, don't live in the same place, etc. Title in about 3 weeks. Last time I did it I think it cost me around $20.
 
BarnBurner said:
FYI I think the VIN certification part of the process only applies to motorcycles over 300cc.

it is for a VT resident. for ANY other state a VIN cert is required for ALL transactions. which is all part of a new revision because so many people have been doing this....used to be 500cc was the cutoff and state didn't matter. VIN cert also didn't used to require letterhead and business card to accompany it, used to just need a signature and badge number, I've done over a dozen over the past 3yrs and the rules changed to this literally last summer.
 
grandpaul said:
VT is $44 plus 6% of value of the bike, or sale amount, whichever is greater.

But don't you end up with a VT license plate? And if you want it registered/plated in your home state, that will be additional costs?
Around here, having an out of state plate will get you scrutinized by the local PD's. Having an out of state registration/plate and a local home address on your drivers license will cause closer scrutiny and the possibility of fines/penalties for not registering your vehicle with the state you're residing in.

And for the record, I'm not bashing the VT method or anyone else's procedures. Nor am I saying my state was cheaper/easier/etc.
All I was stating was my experience with "Obtaining a LEGAL registration for an untitled bike".
 
I just registered/titled a 1987 Harley Davidson in Arkansas. I had bills of sale for the frame, motor and transmission. It is considered an antique and DFA issued a permanent antique plate. Cost was $17.50. I'm waiting on the title which should be here soon. However, I did have to list it with the tax collector and have insurance (minimum liability). There are a couple of other options in Arkansas, if you didn't "build" an antique motorcycle. If you only have one bill of sale for a complete motorcycle the DFA will likely require a Bonded title which is basically an insurance policy if a previous owner claims the bike. The title is not branded and the length of the bond is 3-5 years. The cost is usually around $150 plus the title/registration/license and insurance. The other option is to have a Judge "Quiet a Title", requires a lawyer and hardly anyone goes this route anymore. However, in the 70s, when I was dragging in every old bike I could find, it was the only way to title them.
 
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