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Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: slikwilli420 on Feb 01, 2016, 15:54:43

Title: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 01, 2016, 15:54:43
Alright, so I'm a sucker for punishment and when opportunity knocks, you answer! There was a member on the SOHC/4 forum that was going a different direction with his Rickman project and I had a chance to buy the leftovers. In addition to what is shown here I also got the front mud guard and the chain guard.

There is very little information on the specifics of the kit or about reconditioning these parts that I could find. I will use this as a place to document progress on the restoration of these parts but also add details that one could not find without handling these parts.

It seems this is the earlier of kits in that it has the aluminum hubs with Borrani rims, whereas later kits had Ronal 5-spoke mag wheels.

Here is the rear wheel. Both sides of the hub have similar dimensions and the bolt pattern is the same, although the sprocket side is offset further from centerline. Both sides fasteners came apart really easily with some judicious PB Blaster use.

Front wheel has the same bolt pattern for the rotor as the rear rotor and sprocket. The front cast iron rotor is clearly larger than the rear but of the same design. I have gathered that these parts were very likely made for Rickman by Girling. This is the single disc hub version.

Aside from some surface rust, the rotors are both in very good shape. I am hoping I can get them resurfaced enough to get rid of any pitting on the pad surface. The sprocket is in very good condition and looks like it was used very little. It will still be replaced but at least I have something to take dimensions from.

An original set of Tommaselli clipons, in 38mm. While not part of the kit, they will look the part on this build and are a rare vintage part in their own right.

Original CP 2292 rear master cylinder. Its missing the cap but they are still available. The rebuild kits are still out there as well.

The rear caliper stay. I have seen a few permutations of this part, some with holes (likely not factory). Most are this variety, but I have seen some with shorter torque arms that are under the rotor instead of on top.

Front and rear calipers. These are the original CP 2195 units. You can see both are the same 'hand' version. If this were a dual disc version, the second front caliper would have the brake line input on the opposite end of the outer side. I am having some issues getting the second piston out of each caliper. I was able to get one loose with compressed air but the other is very stuck. I will have to adapt a fitting for a grease gun and see if that works. In the meantime, I will keep soaking the piston area with PB Blaster to try and loosen it up.

38mm Betor forks. This is the single disc version. From research I have done, the 38mm street version may have been the single disc one while any Rickman with dual disc was the 41.5mm fork. If anyone can shed light on this it would be really helpful. These will need complete rebuilding top to bottom. I will also eventually be sending the lowers to Jim F to be laser welded as there are some pretty big dings in them. These are also substantially (about 3") shorter than other forks of the era so I may end up sourcing some longer tubes, but that all depends on what frame I use and the desired geometry.

The top and bottom triple trees are the worst of any of the parts for condition. They appear extremely corroded, to the point that they have blistered and pieces are falling off. I think these are beyond saving but opinions are welcome.

That's all for now and as I get parts sourced to rebuild these components I will post here. I will also be leaning on the brothers here for a multitude of services to get everything as new where possible.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 02, 2016, 22:05:56
Oh wow, please excuse me while I wipe the drool off my chin....

I've been looking for a set of those Rickman wheels for many months, you beat me to it!  I was really hoping to find a dual disc set, but as it is now, my Rickman build is going to work pretty well with a set of dual disc Suzuki GS hubs which are a shoe-in for my 1990's fork and dual disc upgrades.  I'm still drooling over those wheels, by the way.  I'd nearly kill for a set of those hubs alone.


As far as the forks, I was told that the "Rickman Betor forks were incorrectly called 41mm but are actually 1-5/8" (word from a Rickman owner), and that the eariler single disc version was the more high performance oriented version with it's thicker fork tubes etc. The 38mm Rickman dual disc forks (Made by MP someone told me, I think that was the name) were the later version.

Yes you are correct that those forks are much shorter than most forks of that period, or even 1990's RSU conventional forks. That is the trouble I am running into trying to drop the front on mine to increase the rake - the Rickman frame is designed around an incredibly short fork.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 02, 2016, 22:28:58
Too bad you didn't beat me to my Rickman frame and misc parts score, there would be one more semi-original Rickman project being built!  Combining my frame/swinger/rearsets/seat/tank with the parts you have would work quite well together.

Not sure what your plans are, but I'll keep my eyes peeled for a Rickman frame for you.  Geeto67 here in Columbus OH has one (CR750 frame), but the frame and his hoard of most of his cool bikes are all in his hometown 500 miles away in storage with his family. He has no swingarm or parts for it. I have a spare swingarm custom made for the Rickman frame I have (Dresda style), tig welded box section cromoly.

Tom at the Rice Paddy (owner of this awesome Columbus Ohio vintage japanese parts warehouse-salvage business) has a CR900 frame with a few Rickman parts (early style fiberglass gas tanks, seat pan, slightly torqued/twisted early version Rickman swingarm). He had a friend bugging him about buying the Rickman stuff, and he was considering selling it since he knew it'd go to a great home, but he has been keeping it as one of his projects in the distant future while he waits it out to find more parts for it.  Wouldn't hurt to bug either of those guys if you were trying to find a home for those parts. The only other one I have seen was on raresportbikesforsale.com and mentioned that the price the seller was asking was very steep. 

Including a spare GS425 engine, and 2 neglected GS1100E box aluminum swingarms, I gave I think $1150 for my wrecked/repaired/gusseted&braced/GS1100E-engine-mounts modified neglected rusting frame and some Rickman parts. The frame was left bare steel where all the gussets, braze joint repairs, and additonal GS engine mounts were fillet-brazed on, and the bare steel left to surface rust for 15 years after the owner/builder died, in a semi truck trailer at the speed shop/vintage bike salvage yard Rockdale Cycles in Georgia.

Parts included were morris rear mag, Rickman rear sprocket, Rickman rear rotor, speedo drive adapter, rear axle, swingarm and pivot shaft, complete rear brake setup, a few engine mount plates, mostly complete rickman black rearsets, extra nickel plated brake pedal, extra nickel plated shifter pedal missing linkage that fits different Rickman rearsets than mine, reverse shift  Rickman shifter (like a Suzuki/Kawasaki non-linkage'd factory shifter flipped backwards/upside down mounted straight to engine shift shaft), recovered by Corbin Rickman solo seat w/o fiberglass tail section pan, Rickman solo seat long stretched steel inner fuel tank missing the fiberglass bodywork cover. I left the ninja front wheel and 38mm forks in Georgia, no room in the truck with 2 dogs camping gear and 14 GS1100E swingarms (12 for the Rice Paddy)!
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 02, 2016, 22:33:00
Inversely, if you wanted to flip all that stuff, the two leads on frames not really for sale but slight chance of, well those guys could use all the parts you have! I'd even consider the front wheel and fork, would have jumped on those parts a month or three ago if I had seen them for sale.  I'm not sure if Columbus Kerry aka Geeto67 is on DTT, but I know he is on CafeRacer.net and probably the sohc4 forum.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 02, 2016, 23:30:45
Sorry Chuck I'm saving all of this stuff for another build. Since you are going more modern on your build if there are any leftover Rickman pieces you don't need please keep me in mind.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 02, 2016, 23:50:24
Well as it is, the only parts that I may be parting with are the Morris rear mag + Rickman rear sprocket with Rickman specific rear wheel speedo drive adapter,  and the hub mounted adapter to bolt the rotor onto.  Do you have a build in mind yet that you are saving these parts for, or are you just planning to get a project to use them on?  Always keep me in mind on the wheels and also forks if you EVER consider getting rid of them, PLEASE!

I see you mentioned possible resurfacing of your Rickman rotors.  Is this possible in a typical automotive brake lathe?  the outer edge on both sides of mine are a bit chewed up, and I wouldn't mind cleaning it up and losing some extra ounces to boot! 
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 03, 2016, 11:57:40
I am also exploring places for brake lines like the originals. I have not come up with anything and at this point might be out of luck. Here is what the original fittings look like.

Matt,
Aeroquip still sells the original fittings as they are still quite viable in the hydraulic/brake/automotive air conditioning fields., and Russell makes identical fittings.
There are 3 lines on ebay now for $45 each from a seller with a TON of NOS Rickman parts, seller is in Oregon and has 5-7 different Rickman categories in their store. I think the name is cyclesavant. I almost snagged 1 or 2 of the lines last night but then I realized Jeg's sells the exact fittings and line new for about the same price ($15/fitting, $20/6' -3an line - I think -3an is the size, but maybe -4 thinking back on my Earl's AN fittings that seem slightly smaller).
One on ebay was 14.5" and had a 90 degree end in one side and looks to be crimped fittings, the other 2 had the reusable fittings (do they require a new compression ring on each re-use?) and are 15" & 19" with straight ends.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 03, 2016, 12:20:18
Links to the fittings chuck?
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 03, 2016, 12:34:04
Mine that came with the Rickman / AP-Lockheed brakes are Aeroquip braided stainless line & fittings like the others I saw on ebay from cyclesavant.

Here is the exact style of Rickman line that came with my Rickman rear AP Lockheed brake (Aeroquip brand fittings):

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Nzg2WDExMTU=/z/aAMAAOSw8-tWWL16/$_3.JPG)
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 05, 2016, 21:04:52
Links to the fittings chuck?

http://aeroquipperformance.com/p-24060-hoses.html
(http://aeroquipperformance.com/files/images/logo.png)



(https://lefthanderchassis.com/groupimages/2512809.jpg)
I read on a website that sells these that -3 = 3.2mm, and -4 = 4.8mm.
Aeroquip -3 size
https://lefthanderchassis.com/v2a/14_viewproduct_group.asp?idgroup=2512809
Aeroquip -4 size
https://lefthanderchassis.com/v2a/14_viewproduct_group.asp?idgroup=2512808


(http://www.jegs.com/images/logos/russell.gif)
And here's the exact same type of fitting (looks nearly identical) made by Russell:
http://www.jegs.com/p/Russell/Russell-Powerflex-Brake-Hose-End-Fittings/747260/10002/-1
(http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/700/799/799-powerflexbrakehoseends.jpg)
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 07, 2016, 11:12:03
Hallelujah! The grease gun method worked!  I couldn't for the life of me find a 3/8-24 thread grease fitting so I had to get a bolt, cut it down and drill and tap it for a 1/4" grease fitting. Threaded that in with a copper washer to seal and they popped right out. That was a huge sticking point for me and I'm happy it worked out.

I'm still working on the sheared of bolt in one of the calipers. I welded a nut on the part sticking out but ended up shearing it off a bit shorter. I gave it a 12 hour soak in evaporust and is again soaking with some pb blaster.

A 12 hour soak for the rear rotor was promising. The vast majority of the rust is gone but some remained so back for another soak.

Turning attention to the triple trees. You can see the pic in my first post that they have some sort of damage that looks like they blistered somehow. My question is of this is fixable? I thought maybe I could cut all that cancer out and have it welded up carefully so nothing distorted. These are definitely worth saving if possible due to rarity. My dad had an idea to see if the local university would be willing to recast them as a project in their foundry. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Oct 12, 2016, 23:19:54
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281775331903

Somehow we both missed this listing... cr750 frame, brake, swingarm... listing says he had forks and a rear wheel listed seperately. Major bummer, I would have jumped right on that!!!
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 12, 2018, 22:57:31
So this is actually still alive and kicking. Jim French (sohc4 forum) tried to laser weld the triple trees and it basically burned right through it, making them a total loss. I was able to source an original lower with stem in fantastic shape from Europe, but am still missing a nice top.

Since this is a restomod anyway, and given my love affair with the Borrani wheels on my racer, I will rebuild the wheels with wider rims than came stock and some SS spokes, with vapor blasted hubs. I will retain the stock rotors, which still need to be resurfaced. Since my last update I have come up with a headlight mount (Ricky_Racer from sohc4 forum) and a long tank and left/right footpegs from Hagar24 (another sohc4 forum guy). I now have all but the fairing mounts and frame/swingarm from the kit. The frame/arm are not big deals to me as originals tended to have cracking issues so I will be going a different route. I much prefer other frame designs such as Seeley or Egli anyhow and I don't think I will do disservice to these parts by going with a different frame.

The racer is priority right now and taking up all funds, but once the season gets going I will hopefully have a little more income to start thinking about this one again.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 12, 2018, 22:58:23
Pulled the front apart today and nearly every spoke snapped right at the nipple. They wouldn't have been worth restoring anyway so new SS spokes and nipples will go in their place. Thinking of going wide on both ends. Stock front was 1.85" and I think a 2.15" would be nice as well as going from the stock 2.15" rear to 3.00".

I got the hub cleaned up in my parts washer and pulled the bearings. Pretty nasty barnacles in there for sure. A vapor blast job and some new bearings and it'll be better than when the brothers built these kits in the day.

The rotors still need to be skimmed by Tom at True Disk before they go back on with the hat painted black, maybe silver.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 12, 2018, 23:29:58
Glad to see that you're still pursuing this!
I have 4 project bikes now, and my Rickman CR got bumped back on the list, but that could change...
Yes I agree that pursuing a different frame would be an equally cool choice, although depending on who's interested, could hurt the resale value if you ever had to sell it. But then again, I'm sure many people reading would be very excited to see it come together with a Seeley or Egli frame or similar... I'd really love to throw a Rickman tank on a Harris F1/Magnum frame, but the frame design just doesn't permit that...
Since my Rickman frame was already repaired and substantially braced, I'm pretty good there.

Wider rims are a definite plus. 3.00 is the widest you can get in the original style rims, so a 2.15x18 or 2.50x18 front and a 3.00x18 rear would do pretty well. A 130/80-18 is a common size that would work very well on this build. I'm running one on a 3.50x18 now, it's fantastic for the hopped up 920cc GS750.

I'm very excited as well to hear about and see your race bike! Keep up the fantastic and tasteful work on both of these.

Hope to check them out in person, perhaps we'll see you at AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days @ Mid-Ohio????
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 12, 2018, 23:47:04
Thanks Chuck! Still undecided on the frame since I want to finish other major parts first like wheels, brakes and suspension.

Race bike season two is fast approaching. The whole bike is getting redone and will be big on power and small on weight. One of the lightest sohc4 race bikes out there.

Planning for mid Ohio this year of course but wont have any bikes in tow since AHRMA doesn't race there.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 13, 2018, 03:48:08
Turning attention to the triple trees. You can see the pic in my first post that they have some sort of damage that looks like they blistered somehow. My question is of this is fixable? I thought maybe I could cut all that cancer out and have it welded up carefully so nothing distorted. These are definitely worth saving if possible due to rarity. My dad had an idea to see if the local university would be willing to recast them as a project in their foundry. Thoughts?
My experience with interacting with a university to have parts cast in aluminum has not produced a casting quality that I would feel comfortable for a triple clamp. Obviously schools may vary widely in the quality of their castings, so if you have a known opportunity than it might be worth investigating. If you have to pay a industry price (dont forget to factor in heat treating) to have some parts cast I think it would be cheaper to have the clamps 90% cnc milled and do the final operations yourself. In fact, I just had a set of triple clamps cnc milled for me and did the slitting, drilling and tapping and it cut the cost in half. I thought it was a reasonable deal given the turnaround and quality.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 13, 2018, 10:17:14
I thought about having one scanned and CNC machined or having one cast, but both options introduce massive cost and casting may not be a reliable we to make one, depending on whom is casting. I found a good bottom and stem, so there is a top out there for me, just need to find it.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 13, 2018, 12:11:24
I thought about having one scanned and CNC machined or having one cast, but both options introduce massive cost and casting may not be a reliable we to make one, depending on whom is casting. I found a good bottom and stem, so there is a top out there for me, just need to find it.

that part is simple enough to draw without scanning. It may be cheaper than you think to have it cnc milled, but the cheapest way is to get lucky and find one on ebay.
Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: slikwilli420 on Feb 14, 2018, 11:10:00
Hoping to just get lucky, but the search continues for now.

For whatever reason it took me over 2 years to find the Rickman Facebook group, but I have joined up and there is a wealth of knowledge there a mile deep. I have tons of pictures but never really had anyone I could ask questions to and get real time responses.

It just so happens there is a chap on there that is making new CR frames/swing arms, but over in the UK. I have messaged him to get the particulars. I would imagine the lead time is long, so I will be able to do a "pay as you go" type deal hopefully. I also need to make sure I can register it in the US for street use, though it would make a killer AHRMA Formula 750 bike.

My Borrani connection is checking with the factory about drilling the rims special for my hubs as they would have done for the original kits back in the day. I still need to do some measuring to make sure the wider rims will work with everything, especially front tire clearance relative to the fender/forks, and for clearance to the sprocket out back.

I am working on sourcing all the parts to rebuild the AP Lockheed brakes, which includes two calipers and one master cylinder. Looking at $500 or so just in parts to refurb all that. Fortunately I have an AP adjustable ratio master to use up front I got for a song at a swap meet, just needs a new cap. The masters are $350 new so that lightens the blow a bit.
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Title: Re: Rickman CR Refresh - Collection of Kit Parts
Post by: Chuck78 on Feb 14, 2018, 15:10:24
Darn, I'm actually missing out on something more than local event notifications due to not having a facebook account!!!!
That's AWESOME that someone is reproducing Rickman CR frames!!!
Is it an individual? Or a small shop? A shop that already builds other custom/limited production frames????
Can you pass along this info? I wonder if I can view much on the fb page without having a fb acct?

This is great news...

Also great news for those needing CR swingarms! The early variety with the forked lower rear shock mounts really had a tendency to twist under heavy acceleration with a healthy engine... a guy I met in Indiana got my buddy's Rickman Z1 frame, and it's swinger was quite twisted, and he needs a new one. 

Where again were you getting AP Racing (AP Lockheed) rebuild parts??? Some Norton site in England????
I need rear master and rear caliper rebuild parts and rear master cyl res cap.

Do you know how much those repro frames run??? Send details if you have any further. Sorry to be so demanding!