DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Trackers => Topic started by: beachcomber on Jan 09, 2018, 10:01:26

Title: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 09, 2018, 10:01:26
EXECUTIVE DECISION. I'm putting my Boardtrack build here with "Trackers" ... Guessing "Street", "Flat" and now "Board". "Cafe Creme" is here.

With my health issues not resolved but stabilised, time for one last project ?? Having ended up with the early KZ motor [ Weber ] as a “spare” from the Glemseck project and not suitable for the blower – what to do with it ?

On a recent cull in my garage [ continuing cull ] I came across a hoard of Boardtracker parts I had been collecting for one of my Yamaha TR1 projects. They’ve sat in the back of my garage pretty well forgotten for the past 5 years.

I’m pretty sure we’ve all built a project around “that one piece” that’s too good NOT to use. In my case – a Brand New 1910 La Francaise Diamant” flat tank !

Ideally the motor for a Boardtracker should have been a Vee Twin or early Brit single [ J.A.P., BSA, Enfield ] but as they are all stupid money, I decided to look at the possibility of using the spare KZ lump.

THEN I spotted this Norton Boardtracker …………………. sympathetic colourways and accessories [ loads of copper / brass ] and I think I might pull it off.

The Glemseck project is NOT being sidelined, but with my build buddy Brian very enthusiastic about the BT, it will be built alongside. Fortunately I have ALL of the big lumps – engine, wheels, forks, frame, as well as all the aforementioned goodies. The frame [ KZ750 – thanx to the generosity of Rich from the Lonesome Twin forum ] will be modded to resemble the Norton version and the forks …………. well with girder forks in the region of £500 +, I have come up with a cunning plan that even Baldrick would be proud of. Take a pair of early BSA Bantam [ USD ] forks – as in the good old GPO telegram boys, and disguise the look. Time will tell if I succeeded.

And not ONE stock KZ750 was harmed in this process. ;)
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 09, 2018, 13:58:45
BTW - note the 2 different bar set ups in the 2 pix .... I'm aiming for something in between ! 8)

And I'm thinking 2 x high level pipes ... look at the stock off the shelf bends - almost there with minimum cutting 'n' shutting.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: irk miller on Jan 09, 2018, 14:05:40
All in.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: Maritime on Jan 09, 2018, 14:06:21
Nice, looking forward to it!
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: canyoncarver on Jan 09, 2018, 14:43:46
:)
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: Hurco550 on Jan 09, 2018, 19:16:50
Yes. I've dreamt of building a board trak replica for years. Looking forward to this.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: spotty on Jan 09, 2018, 20:03:05
cunning use of headlight mounted in primary on that Norton.

sounds like a fine plan though i've never met anyone that was worried about causing harm to a KZ750, over here they're considered as one of kawasakis finer boat anchors
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: Maritime on Jan 11, 2018, 09:19:27
Check this out. Modern classic boardtracker Indian Scout.

https://rideapart.com/articles/swedish-shop-builds-blown-super-scout-tribute-indian-co-founder

(https://cdn.rideapart.com/wp-content/uploads/2018%2F01%2F5a4e081b4967d_8.jpg)
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: Rat_ranger on Jan 11, 2018, 09:31:42
I'll be watching this.  I've wanted to build one around a small engine like a cb125, or xr 200 for a few years.  The main reason is I have a harley 125 rubberband girder fork.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 11, 2018, 14:44:20
I'll be watching this.  I've wanted to build one around a small engine like a cb125, or xr 200 for a few years.  The main reason is I have a harley 125 rubberband girder fork.

That's precisely the stuff of projects RR !!!! Build something cool around that one key piece ! In my case the La Francaise Diamant tank.

MT - that's a cool interpretation. I was contemplating using my IHI turbo - or maybe another Eaton, but that's going to eat up more funds that I can spare on this project. AND I have that Weber 40DCOE carb'd motor !
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: Maritime on Jan 11, 2018, 15:18:03
Yep. Just wanted to show that you'll be able to blend the kawi motor with the older parts and it will come out cool in the end if they can take a modern scout lump and makd it look like that.  Cheers
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 12, 2018, 08:00:45
MT - yep, all down to careful use of styling cues and disguise ! The colourways will play a big part too. I'm pretty well settled on a light coffee with yellowish tinged cream [ Buttermilk ]

The stash is slowly growing !  ;) By the end of next week I should have all the major parts in stock - and quite a few of the small items.

The Weber KZ motor will definitely be the one for this project - I'll make it look the part !

Meanwhile I'm arranging to collect the late KZ motor from a pal at the end of the month for the Glemseck bike - also probably a complete spare bottom end.

Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 13, 2018, 13:01:35
POC time .......... yes - the Bantam forks will work with the XLR front wheel. The wheel spindle slot just needs opening up a tad to take the Honda spindle [ which just needs shortening ] and tyre clearance is OK.

I think the fork legs need to be a couple of inches shorter [ cosmetics ] - AND I wanted to get that Motobecane "banana" fork look. Again, what worked in my head looks like a goer. Unfortunately I ran out of sufficient garden hose [  ::)!! ] to mock up the complete banana shape - but at least you can see where I'm going with it ..... bit of imagineering required. Who needs cad-cam ! ;)

I'm going to use a couple of seat springs [ see pix ] at the top to give the illusion of suspension, and to a degree they will add some additional springing. ALL parts are available to refurb the Bantam forks - and not expensive.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 16, 2018, 16:00:38
Scratch the Motobecane styling cue fork legs. :'(

Yes I can get them to work with the basic Bantam forks - but that leaves no clearance for the bars to turn without the springs hitting the tank ! In the old days we'd put a couple of nice indents to accommodate that [ eg. Manx clip on depressions ]. NOT on my 110 year old NOS tank - oh no. !  8)

Oh well onto the next thought - H-D style hairpin springer ..... except they are fargin fugly. Well, we can make it less agricultural looking, just leaves the attachment and supplementary suspension / dampening. Yes - BSA neglected to put any hydraulic dampening in the Bantam forks ::) - well there was a bit of rubber tube [ !!?? ].

Cunning plan # 6 or is it 7 ? Use a RAMSHOX unit and use the 6262 alloy body as the means of fixing ! That eliminates any possible bending / pivoting of the hairpin as it moves up and down [ parallel ] with the Bantam fork leg. AND gives me 4 1/2" of travel with finite adjustment of spring platform and dampening. Effectively that renders the bantam forks as cosmetic. And the shock is mainly hidden so it won't look too out of place. A chrome spring and maybe a Black anodised body might add to the deception.

Needed to get a few things clear in my head - so a little shade tree "cad-cam" to the rescue. ;) 60" w/base and the forks will be a little more raked - still debating with myself what angle to use.

And final thought for the day - I got a quote for the Bantam fork stanchions to be refurbed [ hard chromed ] £175 - £200 for the pair :o  !!!! And that's only the 10" or so of actual contact area. Fuck that. So solution - some thick wall stainless tube machined to suit the bushes and with the original spring locators welded in. Material cost £30, labour - £30 ?


Major health assessment coming up next week - everybody cross yer fingers.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 18, 2018, 15:33:56
Yes - Chinabay again .............. I'm going to run a trans brake off the final drive sprocket [ hopefully ] to supplement the Honda XLR250 drums [ self preservation ]. Mini brake and caliper kit from Chinabay £7.00 delivered ...... YES THAT WAS £7.00
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 19, 2018, 13:16:48
The special RAMSHOX unit arrived today  ;D..... based on a BMW Oilhead  front unit.

The plan I have is valid, but I need a shock with a 2" longer [ thread ] body and a 35mm instead of 55mm bottom extension. That's a stock base unit so essentially off the shelf for next time I go down there. That gives me 4 1/2" of travel and as much adjustment as I need.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 20, 2018, 09:44:14
Once the shock unit was in hand - immediately alternative methods became obvious. ::)

So the obvious is to mount the shock the other way up using the bottom yoke platform as the rigid attachment to the H-D style springer hoop and a simple bracket at the top end. That way the springer / shock becomes a rigid unit and can only move in a vertical and parallel motion.

We will need a shorter top mounting extension  [ which is a stock item ] and relevant length spring and we're GTG.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 24, 2018, 07:58:10
Then I thought - why not use a rigid pin for the top mount ? That way the shock is locked and can only move vertically.

New shock variant ordered 4.00pm yesterday - arrived 8.30 this morning ! Good to have mates. It arrived with additional collar and the correct length spring. Rates yet to be determined, but at least this will serve for the setup.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: Sav0r on Jan 24, 2018, 10:18:06
Reminds me of a push rod front end I once saw on a GT competition VW Corrado (might have been a Shiracco). They had to retain the McPherson strut arrangement to comply with the rules, but the strut was comprised of a large tube and a slider, meanwhile the dampers and springs were inboard. Your design is basically the motorcycle equivalent. Neat! You could even do a rocker at the top and a push rod from the lower and get rising rate.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 24, 2018, 11:47:14
Reminds me of a push rod front end I once saw on a GT competition VW Corrado (might have been a Shiracco). They had to retain the McPherson strut arrangement to comply with the rules, but the strut was comprised of a large tube and a slider, meanwhile the dampers and springs were inboard. Your design is basically the motorcycle equivalent. Neat! You could even do a rocker at the top and a push rod from the lower and get rising rate.

Thanx for the input ..... yes well pleased with the outcome. I just have to get the parts made now . That means CALLING IN FAVOURS - or paying top dollar.

I had contemplated rising rate as you suggest - but to be honest a Boardtracker is never going to win any races around the twisty bits ! It's really the overall "look" I'm going for. I would have given a testicle or two for the Motobecane banana forks - but not to be. I'm fortunate inasmuch as I'm totally familiar with the RAMSHOX [ my baby ] and will have an adequate [ more than ] of adjustability. Another stroke of good fortune - the Honda XLR250 wheel spindle is only a gnat's bigger than the  fixing in the Bantam fork bottom. Literally a quick wipe with a round file and job done. Oh, except the spindle has to be shortened by about 3" and re-threaded. Even the brake anchor aligns with the Bantam mount !
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 24, 2018, 11:48:22
Thanx for the input ..... yes well pleased with the outcome. I just have to get the parts made now . That means CALLING IN FAVOURS - or paying top dollar.

I had contemplated rising rate as you suggest - but to be honest a Boardtracker is never going to win any races around the twisty bits ! It's really the overall "look" I'm going for. I would have given a testicle or two for the Motobecane banana forks - but not to be. I'm fortunate inasmuch as I'm totally familiar with the RAMSHOX [ my baby ] and will have an adequate range [ more than ] of adjustability. Another stroke of good fortune - the Honda XLR250 wheel spindle is only a gnat's bigger than the  fixing in the Bantam fork bottom. Literally a quick wipe with a round file and job done. Oh, except the spindle has to be shortened by about 3" and re-threaded. Even the brake anchor aligns with the Bantam mount !
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 29, 2018, 18:08:02
BTW - the rubber mounts at the top will be ditched and mounted solid. The Bantam forks are now stripped and cleaned ready for primer. I'll shorten them by 2" [ from the "kitchen" mock up ] by simply shortening the springs. I'm also going to fit 2 additional bushes per leg [ 4 in total ] as even with the brace effect of the front springer element, they're still only going to be "adequate". Still looking for a scrap Bantam frame [ just the headstock will do ] my Brit mates. ;)
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: semmins on Jan 29, 2018, 18:33:10
If it's any help TJ, there's a  few on ebay, this being the cheapest....... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Bantam-Super-Cub-Frame-Loop/162875630344?epid=26010509433&hash=item25ec24e308:g:8ToAAOSwUn9aHVL6
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: spotty on Jan 29, 2018, 22:20:04
If it's any help TJ, there's a  few on ebay, this being the cheapest....... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Bantam-Super-Cub-Frame-Loop/162875630344?epid=26010509433&hash=item25ec24e308:g:8ToAAOSwUn9aHVL6

thats a hell of a rake on that frame, is that stock or further evidence of the amount of good acid round in england in the 60s
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 30, 2018, 06:14:08
If it's any help TJ, there's a  few on ebay, this being the cheapest....... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Bantam-Super-Cub-Frame-Loop/162875630344?epid=26010509433&hash=item25ec24e308:g:8ToAAOSwUn9aHVL6

Many thanx - that one will do. The only problem is I'm not familiar with the interchangeability of the various year forks. The D1 steering stem looks particularly undernourished !! I just missed out on exactly what I needed - there was a guy in Norfolk selling a front end frame ! Someone beat me to it - and he only wanted £20 for it !

Spotty .... I thought that might be due to the angle of the pic - but I've looked at some others and they DO appear to have Chopper type rake !
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: spotty on Jan 30, 2018, 21:18:18
i can just see it now, all them Post Office chopper dudes, cruising the mean streets of post war britain, knees in the wind and a cup of tea in the thermos
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 31, 2018, 07:30:26
i can just see it now, all them Post Office chopper dudes, cruising the mean streets of post war britain, knees in the wind and a cup of tea in the thermos

One of our local [ Dagenham ] Telegram delivery boys [ Red Bantams ] was well known in the neighborhood and went on to be a reasonably successful short circuit racer ! I regret to say I can't recall his name, but watching him on the streets of Dagenham was awesome .... especially when you consider what he was riding !

When the service was ended you could pick up one of the Bantams for between five and ten shillings !!

There seemed to be a time when everyone had at least one old Bantam in the shed / bottom of the garden. Where are they now !!!
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: spotty on Jan 31, 2018, 19:27:17
i heard years ago that the modern sport of mx can trace its roots back to the 20s in france. the story goes that the post office delivery riders would hit the paddocks behind the post office after they'd done their deliveries and fun turned to timed fun over a pre-described circuit which turned into challenges to neighbouring post offices
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 06, 2018, 10:53:33
A bit more progress on the forks. The POC mock up has been completed - and  YES it will work ! Pix self explanatory. There will be a plate on the top yoke for the pin RAMSHOX unit fitting and there will be a decorative plate added to the top of the "Springer" loop [ see green garden hose stand in ] with the mount bracket for the shock bottom mount. The forks are shown 1" shorter than stock, and with pre-load / sag that will reduce to about 2". My pal Brian has fettled the fork legs so that the Honda wheel spindle slots straight in - just needs shortening and re-threading.

I wasn't keen on the "look" of the Mitas rear tyre [ 3.50 x 18" ] when it arrived - looked far too modern - so I've just ordered a 3.50 x 18" H03 TT 59P - we'll see.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: The Limey on Feb 06, 2018, 21:11:20
Oh my, I'm feeling that stirring within my Y fronts that only an awesome bike build can bring.  I'm in!
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 10, 2018, 08:40:00
Thanx for the encouragement Limey. I managed to get a headstock from a guy in Ireland - so that will save me £80 or so having one made ! Once the forks are "free standing" I'll mock up the forks into the new headstock and see where I want the frame tubes to be. It's at times like these that I wish my welding was better than the "bird shit" variety ! ::)

I now have all the new / refurb parts for the forks - bushes, seals, fork nuts, new  [ !! ] springs, etc.,etc. but there'll be a full mock up first. I've decided to save myself some money and spray the components. definitely some sort of Coffee Cream for the cycle parts with Cream highlights - maybe wheels [ as the chrome / alloy is very good ] but definitely the engine [ yes ], handlebars and probably tank - IF I decide to spray rather than keep the 100 + year old patina.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 10, 2018, 19:20:55
Final leg of the POC mock up. The RAMSHOX unit will fit snugly in here. Alloy plate - nicely machined if I can - to support the top pin and bolted through the threaded locating holes.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 12, 2018, 15:37:43
Final position for shock - all measured up now and bend ordered for the front springer hoop. Honda spindle measured up to be shortened and re-threaded.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 14, 2018, 12:12:05
My pal Brian [ build buddy ] is now obsessed with having Brass highlights - nuts etc. he's just finished the template for the top yoke cover - in 3 mm Brass ! I'm trying to find someone who can etch in "Cafe Creme"  8) 

BTW - the fact that the holes are obviously out of line is NOT Brian - but the good old factory workers at BSA ! ::)
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 15, 2018, 17:57:48
Last few pieces of the forks jigsaw. The Bantam headstock [ £10 ] and the 5/8" weld bungs and clevis' for the springer loop.
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 19, 2018, 11:41:39
The special RAMSHOX unit now mounted and functioning as I envisaged.  ;D Good to have mates eh !!  ;) The springer hoop should be here this week so the front end design can be finalised.

Both Mitas "period" tyres have arrived now and the old knobblies removed from the wheels - decision made they will be powder coated - Buttercream. Just trying to get the right "flavour" for the contrasting Coffee Cream colour !
Title: Re: CAFE CREME - BOARD.....TRACKER
Post by: beachcomber on Feb 19, 2018, 17:40:52
I'm thinking of getting the La Francaise Diamant tank reproduced in ETHANOL PROOF fibreglass. Originally it was a back up plan in case the real one ever got damaged, but I've had 2 people interested. I would need to get interest in 5 so I can get an accurate quote.