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Author Topic: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns  (Read 677 times)

Offline MiniatureNinja

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #30 on: Aug 13, 2018, 01:02:55 »
Far as lethality in numbers goes, close range, a handgun is going to do more damage than an AR, with someone somewhat competent with a handgun.

the only thing a pistol is good for is fighting your way to a rifle or shotgun.

9mm has a muzzle velocity around 1100fps, and I think 400lbs energy, where as the much smaller 5.56mm has a muzzle velocity of 3,150fps and about 6x as much energy - the speed is important as it's hydro-static shock effect on human tissue is what does the most damage, setting off a shockwave of pressure inside tissue - literally exploding organs and bones as it passes by them at over TWO THOUSAND MILES PER HOUR

mmm, I love me some 5.56
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Offline crazypj

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #31 on: Aug 13, 2018, 12:27:08 »
I worked with a guy who was in Nam'. He said at close range you couldn't beat a 45. Smaller caliber high velocity could go straight through allowing attacker to continue 'just long enough' (he didn't elaborate) said a 45 just made them stop - 'dead'
Years ago (2002?) I had a 'student' who was a 'tunnel rat' in Nam' he was completely messed up, usually turned up half drunk. At the end of 3 week course he told me about some of the stuff 'they' did. Said a lot of the negative news reports at the time were totally true (wiping out villages, etc )  but the 'up close and personal' in tunnels was classified. It was more than I wanted to know
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Online J-Rod10

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #32 on: Aug 13, 2018, 13:29:18 »
I worked with a guy who was in Nam'. He said at close range you couldn't beat a 45. Smaller caliber high velocity could go straight through allowing attacker to continue 'just long enough' (he didn't elaborate) said a 45 just made them stop - 'dead'
Years ago (2002?) I had a 'student' who was a 'tunnel rat' in Nam' he was completely messed up, usually turned up half drunk. At the end of 3 week course he told me about some of the stuff 'they' did. Said a lot of the negative news reports at the time were totally true (wiping out villages, etc )  but the 'up close and personal' in tunnels was classified. It was more than I wanted to know
My brother arrested a drug dealer a little while back with a couple mags full of these little treats. I think I'd rather take a 55gr through and through from a .556 than a 100+gr one of these out of a handgun.

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Offline JSJamboree

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #33 on: Aug 13, 2018, 14:38:25 »
My brother arrested a drug dealer a little while back with a couple mags full of these little treats. I think I'd rather take a 55gr through and through from a .556 than a 100+gr one of these out of a handgun.

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They also dont really travel through walls because of how they explode so they make great home defense ammo

Offline teazer

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #34 on: Aug 13, 2018, 14:42:41 »
You fail to understand what the bill of rights even is. It does not grant us our rights... it recognizes them as being inherent and inalienable. They limit ONLY the government from suppressing our thoughts and freedom. If the rules must evolve, then  so should our government. Because when the average citizen is outgunned by a police force that's designed to protect them, something is very wrong.


But I do understand the "rights" and they are not either inherent or inalienable. They were granted under the amendment to the original constitution.  Those rights do not exist in the same way in any other country that I know of.  Doen't make them right or wrong, but they are not basic human rights.

The issue about being able to defend yourself from government is interesting, but how does a government through police enforce laws if citizens are more heavily armed? The issue of escalation is one we as a society do need to address, I agree, but more weapons in more hands doen's sound like a very good solution.

You do remind us that the first and second amendments were designed to protect citizens from an overbearing government and the way those are now interpreted doesn't look much like a logical evolution of the original intent. 

You also raise the issue of how to get guns out of the hands of criminals.  No regulations will be 100% effective, but we could use some sensible discussions from both sides as to how to reduce gun violence and restrict access by the wrong people to guns. Total bans are never going to work but there has to be some common ground on how to reduce the availability of guns to people that should not have them.

Online J-Rod10

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #35 on: Aug 13, 2018, 15:29:47 »
They also dont really travel through walls because of how they explode so they make great home defense ammo
Yep. Those RIP rounds have to be top of the list for self defense. The testing in ballistic gel, it's scary.

Offline crazypj

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #36 on: Aug 13, 2018, 16:05:01 »


You do remind us that the first and second amendments were designed to protect citizens from an overbearing government and the way those are now interpreted doesn't look much like a logical evolution of the original intent. 

Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said government should be afraid of citizens rather than citizens afraid of government? The power that paramilitary Police have is frightening, doesn't matter if they were wrong and you could sue them if your dead.
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'
Best thing I ever overheard
"yep, PJ's my boss, he taught me everything I know, just didn't teach me everything he knows"
Brian Morgan, 1982

CB360's,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0
XS650,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11922.0

Online J-Rod10

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Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #37 on: Aug 13, 2018, 16:32:16 »
One might argue that being equally as armed as the police is what keeps us from being a police state.


It wasn't long ago, a bunch of armed ranchers took a stand against the federal government. The head of that bunch, was found not guilty in a court of law of whatever it was they tried to pin on him, and the courts found the federal government in the wrong.

Personally, I think that whole situation is over before it began if they had no guns.

Offline MiniatureNinja

  • Posts: 428
Re: Crime, and the absence of military grade machine guns
« Reply #38 on: Aug 13, 2018, 20:51:22 »
But I do understand the "rights" and they are not either inherent or inalienable. They were granted under the amendment to the original constitution.  Those rights do not exist in the same way in any other country that I know of.  Doen't make them right or wrong, but they are not basic human rights.

The issue about being able to defend yourself from government is interesting, but how does a government through police enforce laws if citizens are more heavily armed? The issue of escalation is one we as a society do need to address, I agree, but more weapons in more hands doen's sound like a very good solution.

You do remind us that the first and second amendments were designed to protect citizens from an overbearing government and the way those are now interpreted doesn't look much like a logical evolution of the original intent. 

You also raise the issue of how to get guns out of the hands of criminals.  No regulations will be 100% effective, but we could use some sensible discussions from both sides as to how to reduce gun violence and restrict access by the wrong people to guns. Total bans are never going to work but there has to be some common ground on how to reduce the availability of guns to people that should not have them.


have you read the constitution? they are defined as unalienable

from a source you might understand: https://www.aclu.org/other/bill-rights-brief-history

"The rights that the Constitution's framers wanted to protect from government abuse were referred to in the Declaration of Independence as "unalienable rights." They were also called "natural" rights, and to James Madison, they were "the great rights of mankind." Although it is commonly thought that we are entitled to free speech because the First Amendment gives it to us, this country's original citizens believed that as human beings, they were entitled to free speech, and they invented the First Amendment in order to protect it. The entire Bill of Rights was created to protect rights the original citizens believed were naturally theirs, including"...


the right to defend ourselves is NOT a right granted to us by our government. it's just not.
rights granted are not rights, they are privileges.
« Last Edit: Aug 13, 2018, 20:57:10 by MiniatureNinja »
'75 Honda CB360 - thread