ARGH! My Honda engine SEIZED!

Not what you think - the only Honda I own is a 1999 Civic. But yep, it seized. Totally pooched.

So, the alternative to buying a new car is replacing the engine. Seeing as I just put all new brakes on and the tires are under a year old, replacing the engine seems reasonable.

Before I shell out the $$$ to the Honda dealer to go buy a used engine and swap it out, I figured with over 1200 members here, surely there would be at least a few opinions.

I'm in Toronto. I did a quick eBay search and came across:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/JDM-D15B-VTEC-ENGINE-ONLY-FOR-HONDA-CIVIC-1996-2000_W0QQitemZ320260704240QQihZ011QQcategoryZ33615QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A Toronto area seller that happens to be the biggest dealer in Honda engines/transmissions in North America. I can buy a used engine for $600. So it would seem $600 or so would be a reasonable price to pay for the engine itself. My Honda dealer is quoting about $3000 on the high end, taxes included for an engine replacement, and that includes replacing the timing belt and water pump, which itself is about a $700 maintenance job (which I hadn't done yet but was overdue on).

So my rationalizing mind is saying - ok, you should have spent the $700 already, so really the replacement engine is costing $2300, plus you're finally paying the $700 for the timing belt maintenance. $2300 seems reasonable for a used engine installed, taxes included. Comes with a 3 month warranty from the Honda dealer, and frankly if it were to die 4 months in, I'd be screaming bloody murder with Honda and they'd sort me out.

The car itself is in good shape. I could buy a used Honda Civic for about $3000 as well, but:

a) who knows what I'm buying
b) no warranty
c) I just spent a bunch on new brakes and tires
d) likely have to spend another $700 on the timing belt service anyhow

So good people - what should I do? And even better, any import tuners in the area who are handy at swapping out Honda Civic engines? If I can do it for a good bit less than the $3000 quote from Honda, I'd be interested.

I had my Subaru engine taken out (to fix a leak) and put back in for $800 cash. It's a pretty good price considering the labour. I wouldn't take my car to him for very model specific work like electronics or tuning but I would take it for general stuff like, leaks, brakes, suspension, etc. He can probably do the timing belt. He is near islington station in a truck yard and has pretty good turn around times. PM if you want the contact info.

My engine is beyond needing a timing belt. I'm glad I didnt spend the money on it. I'm pretty sure something major went inside the engine - it was making some pretty nasty sharp metal on metal noise and they couldn't rotate the engine at all. It's shot.

$800 seems like a good deal for that kind of work. To swap out an engine, there would be even more I would think as a lot of things they would leave on the engine if they were putting it back in they'll have to remove and reinstall on the new engine.

It will need a coolant flush I would think, probably some new gaskets etc.

I'm going to negotiate with them to get some clutch plates put in too. It's on its last legs, and seeing as the entire engine is being disconnected from the transmission, it would seem an opportune time to get the clutch done.

If I can get the replacement engine, which should have under 100,000km on it from a wrecked car with a newly installed timing belt/water pump and some clutch work for $3000 all-in I think I'm doing relatively ok. Figure $700 for the timing belt/water pump work and a few hundred for the clutch work, I'm into $2000 for the replacement engine all-in.

If it buys me another couple of years with the car, I'm doing ok. A new car would run me $350 monthly or so, or about $4000 each year. As long as I spend less than that on my Civic to keep it on the road I'm ahead of the game.

That being said, when this car is done and over with, we may seriously consider a no-car life. When you consider spending $4000 a year in car payments plus another $1500 in insurance, you're into $5500 and you haven't changed the oil yet.

For $500 a month I can take a shit load of cabs and rent cars - especially considering I have two motorcycles and my wife has a scooter. It's my 6 year old daughter that needs ferrying around from time to time.

I've never heard of a D series engine seizing up from normal wear. The car wasn't a (Canadian) Si was it? If it was a CX, VP, DX, LX, EX or SE it used the D16Y7 for an engine, while the Si used the D16Y8. You should be able to find a complete engine and tranny that are in good shape for next to nothing, most of the time guys just want to get rid of them after they swap. If you have a lower model Civic, try to stick with the Y7; if you have a Si then a D15B (D15Z7) or the D17Y8 are your bolt in no mess around choices.

Not sure if these are still available or not:
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-parts-accessories-civic-motors-and-tranny-W0QQAdIdZ52062875
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-parts-accessories-civic-98-si-vtec-sohc-complete-swap-W0QQAdIdZ49871340

WOW...
you should get in contact with Rudeboy. He was one of the co-founders of the Dark Knights, (a bunch of Import Tuners and street Racers), so Im sure that he'd know some 14yr old pimple faced import tuner genious...
Shit.. you might get your civic back slammed with alloy 21 inch rims, air-ride suspension stacked with a Jackson turbo charger, & Nitrous and Mugen exhaust??!!....LOL!!...

Sorry to hear about the car!...

Seriously though..Im sure he knows someone...

Ugh... bummer dude, that sucks.

Having had 1 honda blow up under my (my old Magna at 120 kph), i can definitly say that it sucks balls.

Sorry to hear that Tim!

I'm sure with 1200 members you're sure to get around 5000 opinions!

I have a '92 Mazda B2200 that's on it's 3rd engine (original +2!). Like you said, no guarantees! :

From an emission testing point of view (o'k, o'k... I can hear the boos and hisses... ) just make sure that if you switch years or engine models significantly, that you also look into switching other associated gear (comp., ox. sensors, etc.) to minimize potential issues in this area. I've seen too many kids come in with these issues regarding their Civics, etc. :'(

Good luck! ;D

It's being done as we speak. Another same or close year engine is going in with 55,000 KM on it (35-40K miles). Same model engine.

I know I could have saved at least a few hundred $ working deals out with smaller guys and shops, but here's what the Honda dealer is charging me:

$950 for the engine (which seems about $300 on the high side but I don't have to find it or get it)
13 hours labour to remove and reinstall at a whopping $98 per hour
$200 or so for the timing belt and water pump parts

So that's $2450 plus then there's some incidental bullshit costs and the obligatory oil change and of course good old taxes. Total will be $2900 or maybe a bit less all-in and I'll have the standard 3 month warranty associated with the service from Honda. Of course if the engine implodes in month 4, I'll be so far up Honda's corporate ass I'll have to learn Japanese.

I was considering having the clutch done at the same time, but I'm not sure at this point. They want $325 for the aftermarket clutch kit (Honda OEM is almost $600) and another hour labour to install. They may also want to machine the flywheel which would be another $100. So I'd be into $525 for the clutch.

Granted it's less than the $1200 they normally charge, but my clutch isn't slipping and I figure I could get that done by some local mechanic for a lot less than $600 in labour. The aftermarket clutch kits seem to be worth about $150-$200, so I'm pretty sure I could get it done in a pinch for the same $500-$600 if and when I need to.

Should have it back in a couple of days - Thursday most likely.

I'll agree with you there Tim. Probably better to just get the big shop with all the fancy tools and manuals to do it right. Not that they know more, or better than some genius street racer kid that's swapped a dozen Civic engines, but it all comes back to a "peace of mind" thing. Knowing that the warranty is there, even if it is only 3 months. 55,000km is pretty sweet, and you shouldn't have trouble for a while with that kind of mileage. Clutch doesn't really matter either way when you do it. It's not really that hard to do, so most shops can do it for ya for cheaper than Honda. An original clutch should last over 300,000km easy if it is driven right. Even in city driving.

So do you get a credit for them taking the old engine? That lump has to be worth a bit in scrap with all that aluminum.


If it were me, I'd do it myself in a heartbeat. A good excuse to buy more tools to do the job. New tools are usually cheaper than shop rate for someone else to do it.

No question on the tools vs. paying someone to do it. That's how I've acquired most of my tools. I finished my basement, put in the bathroom down there etc. but swapping out my Civic's engine is beyond my desire to acquire the tools. I don't have the space for the lift I'd need to pull the engine out, nor the time to do it frankly. Don't have a truck to bring an engine home with etc. etc. etc.

I'll get the clutch done when and if it starts to slip. Only reason I even considered it was I saw clutch kits were $150 and I figured I could get them to do it for free. No such luck.

So... is it back yet?

Yep - picked it up yesterday.

Replacement engine - 50-60KM on it
New clutch
New plugs
New thermostat
New timing belt
New waterpump
Oil change

Oh, and I got a new Honda key made up as I left them without the keys for the car, so they had to cut a new one.

Runs like a champ. I had them do a compression test on the replacement engine and it was 185/185/185/190 which seems inline with stock and consistent across the board. Wasn't cheap, but a lot less than a new car. Less than 1 year worth of new car payments, so as long as it lasts at least that long, I'm ok. And of course the car was pretty much worthless with a seized engine. At least now it's worth what I just spent on it