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Author Topic: Neutral availabilty limited  (Read 1172 times)

Offline Joseph New York

  • Posts: 90
Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #10 on: Jul 27, 2016, 18:49:25 »
I was thinking clutch slippage could be causing this but was corrected by XB (as usual!)

The reason I asked about oil is because the clutches in these old Hondas are sensitive to certain additives which are commonly found in conventional modern motor oils.  My CB750 uses the same oil in engine and gear case so I assumed yours was the same

Actually, in riding today, I did have slippage twice... When up shifting, it would drop down to the lower gear :/
CB(500/4|650|750|750/DOHC)
Norton Atlas
Suzuki Savage bobber

Offline xb33bsa

  • Posts: 7727
Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #11 on: Jul 27, 2016, 21:12:48 »
Actually, in riding today, I did have slippage twice... When up shifting, it would drop down to the lower gear :/
clutch slippage will not cause it to drop a gear
 goddammit  >:( :) reading comprehenshun do you not have any ?
 once again THE CLUTCH HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL FUNCTION OF THE GEARBOX OR SHIFTING GEARS

Offline Joseph New York

  • Posts: 90
Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #12 on: Jul 27, 2016, 21:18:59 »
Whoa man. No one said it did, just mentioned it was slipping today, was asked.


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CB(500/4|650|750|750/DOHC)
Norton Atlas
Suzuki Savage bobber

Offline xb33bsa

  • Posts: 7727
Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #13 on: Jul 27, 2016, 23:37:05 »
Whoa man. No one said it did, just mentioned it was slipping today, was asked.


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hey at least you aint got me on ignore yet  ;D
but please realize this stuff is not opinion either it is well known fact written in stone
you cannot relate the clutch with the gearbox , it is literally impossible for the clutch to effect the gearbox in any manner whatsoever
the only thing that the clutch does is engage and disengage the engine from the input of rotating power to the transmission/gearbox, it cannot do anything else
a person can say well my clutch is dragging so i cant shift
but the fact is you dont need the clutch at all to shift

Offline xb33bsa

  • Posts: 7727
Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #14 on: Jul 27, 2016, 23:48:09 »
a fail proof method to find if your clutch is slipping
after the bike is warmed up and has some miles get the thing in 4th gear and ready at a good rpm like 4k below redline,fat p-art of the power, then nail the throttle wide open and aplly the rear brake medium hard at the same time and watch the tach... although you should be able to hear and feel it
pulling a hill works good to but you need to be in the fat power and at the same time try to hold it back with the brakes front brake works well but i hesitate to recomend it to novices like yourself
if the clutch is slipping it will maybe rev higher without gaining speed or just stay at that rpm while loosing speed
« Last Edit: Jul 27, 2016, 23:50:38 by xb33bsa »

Offline jpmobius

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Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #15 on: Jul 27, 2016, 23:59:27 »
i would venture to say its the clutch dragging very slightly this will absolutely make it more difcult to neutralize motivation once stopped and engine running
let me guess it runs a little ruff so you have it idling a little high as well ? hmmm only compounds the issue
it is possible but i have not got first hand onnit,it is possible that damage commenced upon  low oil by either a little extra heat and or both the lower lube level
its time to pull the clutchpak and flat glass the plates for warpage or granite slab, that is observe how a plate plants down if its got a little air gaps and light ,wants to be a rocker just layin there then you learned shit
thats all

Good advice.  This is your problem.  If the clutch drags at all you will go from first to second to first to second and skip right past neutral every time you try to find it.  As xb says, if you unload the driveline you should easily be able to click into neutral, but if you do not already realize this, it will be hard to explain.  Adding oil to a low all the time bike will swell the dry-ish clutch plates causing it to drag more than before, greatly increasing the trouble.  And/or, you may have gotten it hot either from use/abuse or lack of oil and the plates are warped - it takes very little.  Take it apart, flatten the steel plates and correctly adjust all the bits that engage the clutch.  If that does not work replace all the friction (non steel) plates or glass bead them as xb suggests.  If you do that, run them over a glass plate with some sandpaper on it to check them for flat as well.  All the parts must be flat beyond what you can see with the naked eye (well, at least if you are not sure what you are looking at).  A sheet of #400 sandpaper wet on a sheet of new glass should scratch the entire surface leaving no bare spots with one stroke.  Get all the plates to pass this test and your problem will be gone.
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2016, 00:19:51 by jpmobius »
Mobius


On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

1973 RD350 Yamaha build  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66498.0

Offline Joseph New York

  • Posts: 90
Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #16 on: Jul 31, 2016, 23:49:57 »
Thanks all for the advice. Plate warp is what I'll be looking for. I'll be done with my other daily next week, and ready to lay her up. Be back soon with what I find. Thx!
CB(500/4|650|750|750/DOHC)
Norton Atlas
Suzuki Savage bobber

Offline Joseph New York

  • Posts: 90
Re: Neutral availabilty limited
« Reply #17 on: Jun 30, 2017, 19:59:26 »
Guys it's been a very long time since I've ridden the 500. The last time I rode it, it stopped switching gears entirely, which was the last straw to completely rebuild the bike from top to bottom. I literally rode her hard daily year round for 5 years and she deserves a makeover.

This post was regarding the clutch issues, so if you guys don't mind me bringing a year old post back to life, ill share the current clutch conditions.

I did a mirror test on the plates with a feeler gauge, and will try jpmobius sandpaper test this weekend. The plates really seemed flat overall but seems to have some irregular wear. Friction plate fingers are all scraped up, and inner clutch has a deep gash. The inner and outer baskets have notching but you can't feel em. Inner notches worse than outer (not shown)

Here are some pics:



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CB(500/4|650|750|750/DOHC)
Norton Atlas
Suzuki Savage bobber