1972 Honda CB450 Cafe/Brat inspired build

Charles said:

You can use a 4 cell LiPOFe4 battery. Ballistic has theirs in a rectangle/cube shape:

And companies like Antigravity have them in flat row:

I will say, if it's cold outside, you need to "warm" them up a bit by turning the bike on and letting the headlight draw some current. Maybe press the starter once quickly, then it should be good to go. A 4 cell pack is slightly bigger than 4 D batteries.

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Are these comparatively better or worst than one of the Shorai batteries? Thats what I was going to be looking at.

reesea17 said:

Are these comparatively better or worst than one of the Shorai batteries? Thats what I was going to be looking at.

Click to expand...

From what I can tell, they're the same technology.

They're the same battery

Alright, so progress has pretty well ground to a halt and I'd like to get it moving again. Main thing is that I am a little apprehensive towards cracking the bottom of the engine and wanted to see if y'all had any tips or advice for me from this point forward. I'm not quite sure how to go about dismantling the clutch side of the motor or now to remove the alternator, or if I even have to in order to split the crankcase. Still need to look some stuff up before I'll be comfortable turning wrench on the engine further.

In other news, I had been in need of a new gas cap latch as the one I had looked like someone took a pryer to in order to open it. Seems like most people don't know that the locked gas cap latches are really tumbler locks at all and all you need is a flat head screwdriver to open it... In any case I had seen the simple push/lever latch that came on the CL350's and I started looking around for one to see if it'd be compatible. I finally found one at a much more reasonable $20 and received it in the mail a few days ago. Went on pretty easy and works on the tank, it hold onto the cap really tight but I cant see that as being an actual problem, just have to push down on the cap to get it to unlatch.

Okay, so I've spent a little more time on the carbs and ended up deciding to try and clean up most of the original parts as the ones I got from DCC have what looks like much larger drill holes in certain jets than the stock ones. Anyways the originals cleaned up really quite nicely as it is anyways, still nice having the replacement gaskets from DCC though.



I have a two questions to ask. On the slider, the needle I have wiggles a bit side to side. Is this normal or is it not supposed to move at all?



And I am still struggling for an idea on how to remove the needle guide/jet, whatever it is thats stuck inside my second carb. Top of it simply stripped off while dismantling and now I am stuck on two parts: how to get the damn thing out, and where to find a new one? I'd hate to have to buy a whole new carb because of this.



Anyways, I got one of the carbs pretty well rebuilt other than the slide having a loose needle, which could be how its supposed to be for all I know.

The needle is normally a bit loose - wouldn't worry about that.

You can use a left-handed drill bit to get that jet out, I expect; lots of lube, left to sit for a couple of days, and then go to it. I have another carb body if something goes wrong. I'll trade you for a cool t-shirt.

The one you got wrapped back up looks great!

I'd try an easy out. Put it in your drill, forcefully tap the drill to set the bit farther in, then slowly try to back it out. If not, try to take enough material out with a regular bit so that you can use a screw driver to gently break pieces of it off until you can remove the whole thing. Obviously, you don't want to take too much out, cause your threads will be gone, so gradually step up your bit sizes. Hell, given that it's brass, you might be able to hammer a very sharp flathead into the jet, creating a slot, then remove it like normal. If I recall correctly, alum expands quicker than brass, so perhaps hit the carb body with a torch right before you try whatever method you choose.

Thank you both for the ideas, looks like I need to get a new easy out. My smallest bit broke a while back when I was trying to get all the engine fasteners out.

Does anyone possibly have a needle jet I can buy/take off your hands? I'm going to call this one toast already, so I'll be needing another one.. or probably two since it seems most of the new jets/holders drills are a little larger than the stock ones I have. I found one site that says they have four left but the price in in euros and equals about 24 a piece.

I can get you those jets. Send me a PM with the address but hang tight in case you trash the carb body. Easy does it.

I actually just got through the headache, and I seem to have come out on top. First the easy out broke in the jet which made drilling just that much harder. But I was able to drill it out in the end and get the jet out. I tested the threads with the good jet that I had and it actually all seems to be working even though I did nick the sides in one or two places.

Thank y'all for the suggestions. In the end it was the drill press and a dremel tile cutting bit that saved my ass.

I've been working on the forks today, got them torn down and am trying to salvage the fork tubes from the massive amount of surface rust they are currently wearing.

In the mean time I have yet again more questions. I've seen one method on how to shorten forks but its for a Yamaha and I'm not sure that I want to completely base my shortening off of it. So does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should go about shortening the forms? Would it be as easy as cutting a bit off the non progressive side of the fork springs?

And my second question is does anyone know the size of the stock rear shocks? Mine bike came with 12" shocks and I'd been planing to lower 2"s but now it seems I may only be able to do 1" if stock is 12".

How much do you want to lower the front end? If it's only an inch, you can push the top triple down the fork tubes and re-tighten them, exposing the inch through the top. That's about the max you have to work with in that respect, otherwise, you'll have to go with getting them cut. If you're thinking about shortening up the front and rear shocks though, you'll have to put some research into the amount you'll change the steering angle. Make sure you're not introducing stability or steering issues.

One word of caution though, you asked in my thread about having them cut... looking at the amount of rust on your tubes, you'll 99% going to need them to be refinished afterwards (either chromed or hardcore polished). If there's significant pitting around the travel areas, the amount of refinishing might effect the OD on the tubes and not let them seal up properly. You might want to consider scrapping them and buying a set in better condition on eBay or an aftermarket set of tubes.

Just food for thought.

I want only only lower the forks in the range of 1 to 2 inches, but the way things are going it seems that its more likely going to be 1". I'd prefer to not have the fork tubes sticking up and out of the triple tree, although I have seen people do this. Is it not possible to use this method with these Honda forks?

http://www.xs650chopper.com/2009/06/mulligan-machine-lower-your-xs650-forks-low-buck-garage-tech/

Also, there is a good bit of pitting but the rust is what was under the stock headlight ears, I am assuming you are referring to the portions of the tubes that are inside of the fork bottoms as the travel areas. I figured that I could just remove the rust and polish down the tubes tops in order to get them decent looking.

Hmm... I'm not sure if that will work exactly as they wrote it, because these forks (unless your's is different) have an inner guide rod that runs the length of the tube inside the spring. You will have to cut and re-thread that as well (wouldn't be too difficult). I'd check to see if you can securely put a spacer above the lower damping rod (the profile of the damping rod top is tapered if i remember correctly). You might have to cut a bevel inside the spacer where the two meet so it seats without wobble.

If you're not on a tight budget, I'd just give Forking By Frank a call/email and see what they would charge to just cut them. They will cut the rod and springs too for you, I'm betting. I dig your garage DIY mentality though, I'm the same way.

http://www.frankmain.qpg.com/

As long as that bad rust is in the cosmetic areas (like under the headlight ears and upwards) you should be good.

Well the building has halted to a slow crawl as of late, money that was for the build had to be spent elsewhere so now I can only do things to the stuff I already have on hand.

Big thanks goes out to Rich Ard for getting me a new jet holder for my second carb, should be able to fully rebuild it and be done with the carbs now and a big thanks also goes out to Flugtechnik for sending me a replacement exhaust cam and cam follower. Thanks guy, this helps me out tons.

Man, like I've seen other members say, we sometimes start a project, and life just smacks us in the face and says no.

I have however been able to make a slight amount of project, and thanks to the jet that Rich sent me, was able to finish out the rebuild on my carbs. One piece of the puzzle has actually found itself in a completed stage. Although I do need to match the polishing on them.



I recently obtained a new job for the summer in a research lab on my university campus and came into access with most all the tools a builder could ask for (namely a welder and a blasting cabinet). So heres a question, my engines head block is in need of a good blasting in the compression zones and I am looking to use the on hand blaster to do the work myself. Now one hitch is that I need to get the valves out of the head myself first and then I can start to tape up the head. What exactly should be my process of protection for the head in regards to keeping sand/glass from getting anywhere that it shouldn't. I need to blast the compression zones and as such don't see much of a way to tape off the spark holes and valve holes.. Any suggestions on where I should start? I know there are a few DIY valve compressors but its still going to take a bit of research to figure that one out as well. I'm excited to get this project going again and hopefully make a little bit more progress than I previously thought was going to be impossible without buying a good bit of expensive equipment.

I'm definitely going towards a brat build now, and finally finished welding up the rear hoop on the bike. As many people that try to source a rear hoop know, it can be pretty hard/near impossible to find a decently priced hoop. I had an epiphany moment while moving some of the parts and pieces from the tear down of the bike. The bike originally had one of those crash cages on the front of it that looks like it was modified at some point of its life, mainly because the mounts on it weren't centered.. not even close.



But I noticed that there were two 90 degree bends on it that I could cut off and weld together to make a 180 degree hoop with the proper radius. So I cut the parts and welded them together with a steel plug I turned out on the lathe.





After that I was able to turn out two smaller plugs to put into the rear of the frame to connect the hoop. I ended up deciding to go with basically a mitered connection thinking this would give the strongest result. And that's about it, it's not a huge amount of progress, but progress is progress. I'm hoping to finish a seat pan and seat before I move.







Question: Are there any "standard" tanks that people swap the 450 tank out with that are slightly smaller? Or narrower? And otherwise, it seems like there's no real mounting fixture that attached the tank to the frame. Is this because the OEM seat was big enough to ensure that it couldn't move backwards? Would it be necessary to bolt it down somehow now?

Alright, as with some, life got in the way of my build for a while. But after a move across country and starting my first full time job, I'm ready to get things moving again. I've been working on taking the motor back apart and getting closer to cracking the case in order to get a look at how everything is doing after sitting for so long.

I've got a question about the gear shift spindle, I understand that there is a cir clip and washer on the left side that has to be removed, but can't seem to slide the gear shift spindle out. Looking to get a little insight on the best way to go about taking this off as I understand that this is pretty well the last step necessary before pulling the case apart.



As always, I appreciate you stopping by and any help you may be able to provide.

Nevermind, got that part sorted, now its time to get cleaned up and actually get the rebuild started.

Getting back into this thing for the 1000th time it feels, but I need some help on the shift drum. Currently, since I've let this thing sit apart for so long in the lovely florida humidity, two of the three shift forks no longer rotate on the drum. Looking to see if anyone can give me a bit of advice for removal so i can get it cleaned up and put back together. Is the only thing holding the whole contraption in the bearing set plate?



Also, looking at the top case, I noticed two holes that don't quite look like they should be there, but that could just be my extreme inexperience showing here.



Last note for this post: Got the head back from the machine shop recently, had it cleaned up a bit and a full valve job.