Hey Jude - A new CB360 project

Hello all,

I've read many great discussions here and picked up a good amount of tips and advice. I decided it is time to register, because this project is big, and I need the help!

Here's the scoop. My first bike was a 1974 CL360 that I picked up back in 2003 when I was 16. I crashed it a bunch, fixed it a bunch more, and eventually seized it when the engine filled with gas. I loaded it up in a friends ice cream truck, dropped it off at another friends house for storage while I was in the Army, and eventually it disappeared.

So when I was browsing Craigslist and saw 3 CB360's in various states (1 1974, 2 1975), I thought I should be able to make at least one damn good bike out of the 3.

So far, the '74 is the best of the bunch and that has been my focus. It ran, but would blow a fuse every 2 minutes. After many hours of searching, I discovered the loose wire was in the switch housing, running to the starter button. Not knowing how to solder, and wanting to get rid of the café bars as I plan to use them on one of the other bikes, I stole the bars and switch housings off of the '75. All was good, until halfway through the install I ripped the same damn wire off when I was closing up the switch housing. I figured "what the hell", at least I have the kick start. I taped it off and let it be.

Well, I had it running yesterday after all that, but it keeps stalling out unless I am giving it heavy throttle. No blown fuses, just stalls out. It obviously needs a lot more work.

Today, I took apart the front brakes and cleaned the caliper. The Master Cylinder was empty and missing the cap, so I bled the system a bit, but the bleeder screw is damaged making a socket the only thing I can crack it with. I ordered a new one so I can continue the bleed and get the air out. However, it is better than it was. When I was done, I kick started it and let it sit a bit. It still needed throttle to idle, so I attempted turning up the idle while warming the bike up. All was sounding good, but a bit loud and dry in the motor. I checked the oil and added about 1/2 ct. ( I forget if you check with the stick screwed in or resting at the threads). I got it running again, but the idle was too high. I stood it up to move it around in the driveway, and as soon as I did it started stalling and eventually did stall. It was unresponsive to throttle at that point. I managed to start it about 5 more times, out of about 150 kicks, and it is just wildly inconsistent.

I thought that perhaps I had messed something up when I adjusted the idle screw. I attempted so many different settings that I have no idea where I began, where it should be, and if it is keeping me from getting her running. I know - dumb.

Finally, as I was dripping sweat and my right leg was burning, I had a genius idea. Who the hell needs a horn? I pulled the tank and swapped the horn button wire into the starter wiring in the main harness. No more horn, but no starter either. Just one single click from the solenoid whenever I hit the button formally known as Horn.

Anyway, can someone stop me from creating chaos and let me know just what the hell I should be looking at doing next?

BTW- My plans are for one somewhat stock-ish bike for my girl to learn on, one racer as a fun project, and one rat bike I can take out and beat the hell out of.

Thanks for reading! All help is appreciated. And I have a service manual.

Just a quick update.

While I am no mechanic, I was taking a closer look at the solenoid and realized that both the wire coming from the battery, and the wire heading out from the solenoid were on the same pole. I put them on separate poles, and nothing worked. Switched it around - nothing. Both on the other pole, lights work. Both on the original pole - lights work. Stole the solenoid from the other bike and had the same result. Went back to one on each pole and ran a screwdriver across the top, still a click.

I am thinking that either there is a break in the wire to the starter, or that the guts have been removed. Checked out the engine and it sports a different serial number. Perhaps someone has been in there creating a little riddle for me to solve.

And I was so excited to start the bike with the horn button...

To be honest, I really don't care about the starter, but it would be nice to have the bike fire up while I try to fix this stalling issue. Although with all this kick starting I'll probably lose a few lbs. in the upper half of the ride.

I assume the next step will be unf*ck whatever I did to the idle adjustment.

Thanks for reading.

Welcome, sounds like you have got your work cut out for you. Least you have 3 bikes to make one or 2 good ones out of. We dp like pictures around here though.

IF you don't have it already I suggest downloading the Honda Factory Shop Manual. I'll link it here DO NOT bother with a Clymer or Haynes manual, there are all kinds of errors in them. You will also need a few tools, good 12volt test light, decent multimeter, IMPACT SCREWDRIVER (can not express how important that tool is) Feeler gauges for the valves, points and such.

Sounds like your starter may be dead, which is not uncommon for these bikes. IF you have some jumper cables you can simply connect a car battery up to it, connect the positive to the terminal coming out of the top of the starter. Connect both clamps to the battery then touch the negative clamp from the starter side to the engine right closed to the starter. Should spin over, along with a nice spark.

Your running issue, is it running on both cylinders? Are you getting spark AND fuel to both cylinders? Is the spark happening at the correct time? How clean is your fuel system? How good is your battery? What's compression like on the engine? Are you comfortable with points ignitions and manual valves? These bikes are very finicky compared to modern equipment, especially when a PO has no clue what to do with a bike. Best to start from the beginning of the shop manual and work through all the adjustment and inspections section that you can. That at least gives you a factory baseline.

Engine numbers on Honda bikes rarely lined up with the VIN on the frame, that was not put into place until sometime in the 80's, as long as the number is within a 1000 or so its probably original.

And final piece of advice for someone says they don't know much, MAKE A LIST. Don't go charging willy nilly into something that you have no idea about. Get pen and paper, start looking at everything thing on the bike, compare to that manual. If not same or needs repair write it down. Then organize the list based on importance of making it running and riding safely. DO ONE THING AT A TIME, FINISH what you start. Take lots of NOTES and pictures. Stay organized, stay on task and with the list and you should be good to go, don't be afraid to ask dumb questions, we've all been there.

frogman,

Thank You! I do have the Clymer manual, which is a bit less thorough than I hoped it would be. I do need to do a full inspection, but was poking around to get an idea of what I was working with here. I will print this manual tomorrow when I am back at the office. You have already saved me a cash and time, and it is appreciated.

I have ordered a few things for the bike already. A new brake bleeder, fork seals and covers, gas cap gasket, and Uni air filters. I do have a fair amount of tools as I service my own Harleys, but am probably lacking a few bigger sockets in the metric department. All in all, I think I will have enough to get through these without much expense on the tool side.

As far as systems go, I have flipped a few houses and know about staying organized and completing a project at a time. I am also fairly decent and learning new things, so I think I can handle this.

Here are my limits: I have never worked with a carb, not have I ever disassembled an engine. Nor have I ever welded or soldered.

I will get pictures up here soon. As for now, the manual in gold and will help me narrow down the issues a bit.

The battery came with the bike, but it does hold a charge and will run the lights for quite a while without the engine running. I am not sure if it is in top condition, but It has been on the tender the last few days. I might order and wire in some battery tender leads so I can plug it in like my Street Glide.

The spark plus look new, and it has new clutch and throttle cables. I think the previous owner worked on it but got fed up with the blown fuses and sold it. I realized this when I found 2 packs of new fuses in with the 3 bins of parts that accompanied these bikes.

I am thinking I may pull the carbs off the '75 when the time comes and clean those up, then throw them on this bike and do the same to the ones I take off. That being said, are there many parts that are not interchangeable between these two years?

Thanks again!

Here is a picture of Boogie on the bike when we brought it home.

Here is the update for today.

I kicked the bike, and it started up. I held the throttle and it ran for a good 5 minutes before it started to bog down again. I had read about problems with gas cap venting, so decided to check that out. The gasket was shot, and I have a new one on order so I took it off. The innards of the cap were a bit rusty, so I pulled it out and cleaned it up with a wire brush and a rag. I believe the vent is the small triangular shaped raised bump with a hole, so I shoved some thin wire in there hoping it would come out a different hole. It did not, but I got it in a good inch or so. I shot some brake cleaner in there, cleaned it off and let it sit for a few before reinstalling. I will probably have to pull it off again when the new rubber gets here, but its a start.

I took a flashlight to the tank while I was at is. At first, I was pleasantly surprised to see no rust, but then I looked at the other side. Definitely rust. Research on that to begin soon.

Considering that I wont be trying to start the bike up again for a few days, I yanked off the dead air cleaners to prep for pulling the cars. The boots are decent, but could use some softening up. Tips and tricks on that?

Up next, I plan to order some inline fuel filters and something to work those boots a bit. I also plan to print that much appreciated manual tomorrow.

Thanks again.

You can get some cheap plastic fuel filters at autozone for around $2 each, just go get you running.

Sounds to me like you need to go through the carbs, clean all your jets, make sure your float height is set properly, etc. assuming you have the correct Keihin carbs for the bike. Don't be afraid to tear them apart, they're not that intimidating once you get into them. Just be careful not to lose anything and keep it organized. Get a carb gasket kit, they're always dry rotted on a bike that hasn't been taken care of. Take out the jets, spray some carb cleaner through and then blow them out with compressed air. Make sure there's no crap in the bottom of the bowl.

Also I would re-set the timing, check tappet clearance, points gap. Basically what frogman said above, go through the Honda service manual and get everything to spec. Toss the clymer manual in the trash . I wouldn't try to run it if you have to hold the throttle.

Be careful which air filters you get, some block ports off on the back of the carbs that are important for proper airflow to the vacuum pistons. If it is blocked off it will cause mixture issues as the piston will rise too early and possibly drop back down when it shouldn't. 360's do best, meaning the least amount of tuning needed, with stock air cleaner systems. You can rehab the filters themselves with UNI Foam if yours are shot. SO many people use crappy pod filters on these bikes and wonder why they run like crap.

AS far as 74-75 models, there are some minor differences in the LATER 75 models, they changed how the headlight works, how the air cleaners are built, few other minor cosmetics.

Carbs are easy, just do them one at a time and I can not stress how clean they need to be. When you think they are clean, just put the back in the carb dip for another 20 minutes. If you are concerned about rust from the tank, just make sure your petcock has its screen in place and its in good shape, that screen all the filter you need, and that bowl is a sediment bowl that should settle out most of the crap. Any flecks of rust that make it past the screen are too small to get stuck in much of anything. Honestly once most of the surface rust goes away there is no reason to coat or treat a tank so long as it is stored full of gas. The fuel cap, that entire vent part should just pop out, it has 4 teeth or tangs around the outside that press against the inside of that cap. Just get a screwdriver under one of those and work it out and soak that entire thing in carb dip.

The 5 minute thing, that should be easy to figure out, its either running out of fuel, running out of battery voltage, or and this is less obvious, the valves are too tight, or you have an air leak that happens only when something gets warm. When the valves are too tight and the engine heats up, the valve follower will actually expand and hold the valves open just a little, especially on the exhaust side. That will cause loss of compression and random stalls.

Rubber parts, there are many ways to rehab them. I've used plain old baby oil but you have to pay attention to it as it will swell the part, wintergreen oil is another. Google is the best here. The intake isolators, boots that hold the carbs to the engine can be ordered, Honda still sells them. If you suspect any leak in them at all just get new ones. You'll save hair pulling later.

adventurco,
I ordered those cheap fuel filters yesterday, and will throw them on when they get here. I wont be running the bike again until the new filters get here, and I get a change to clean the carbs out and poke around using the service manual. I am becoming less intimidated as I learn more. I watched a great youtube video last night on carb cleaning. I will order the rebuild kit as well.

frogman,
If you have the time, please take a look at those filters I ordered. I do not like the stock filters aesthetically. Eventually, I will relocate the battery as well, and like the open look. I have an earlier '75 for sure, but do have a box of parts for the stripped down "other" '75 that contains a different filter style.

I am sure I will see it in the manual, but where is the petcock screen located? Also, what is the best gas to run in these and where do I find it. Everything seems to have 10% ethanol around here. I did pull out that cap and clean it. Awaiting a new gasket for the cap.

The boots look good, and are still soft, but a little TLC now while it is apart will probably buy me another 20 years on these.

On another note, I pulled off the points cover and see that it is gasket free but has a silicon-ish residue. There is also red spray around the inner edge. Some dummy rattle canned it red, and the next went to black. Both are peeling off in various stages.

While I know less than nothing about cracking an engine open, I see a few of these in my future. The one I just mentioned, the second one on the '75 is installed, but missing the uppermost cover so I am sure it is full of debris, and the third that is half disassembled and in a bin. However, this is a task best left for after the carbs and air filters are ready, and fuel filter is sorted out. Oh, and after I clan my garage. It's a nightmare in there...

Sincerely, thanks again for the help!

Questions-
I did order the foam pod filters for a few reasons. One, they are cleanable and reusable, and I can use them with the stock rubber boots to set them back. Will I need to do anything different when I clan the carb to support these filters. Different Jets, etc? Here is what I ordered: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181364015580?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Alright, I have been doing a bit more reading. Perhaps I will save those Pods for one of the other bikes, and rebuild the stock air filters for this bike. I see the green and the red Uni filter sheets on Amazon, which are the best for this application? Are they cleanable and reusable, or do you have to recut new filters each time?

Also, does DOT 3 brake fluid go bad after a certain amount of time in a bottle?

Thanks!!!

Following along.

Brake fluid will go bad if the bottle has been opened before, yes.

Petcock should have what looks like a small bowl on the bottom of it, 10mm wrench will take it off, make sure fuel is off and get ready to catch about a teaspoon of fuel. Screen will/SHOULD be up in the petcock. You can get rebuild kits for them or brand new ones still if yours is shot. Might have to hold the assmbly when you take the bowl off, the entire thing might try to screw out leaving a nice mess everywhere.

The UNI foam is reusable so long as it doesn't get damaged. Just gut the old housings as best you can and cut the foam slightly larger so it presses into the housing, it will pretty much stay put, just remove, wash, dry, and re-oil when they need it. Here's a few pics of mine that I did for my 450. Get which ever color you like.







And for what its worth, I happen to like the look of the CJ360 air filter housings, I welded in tabs and got an entire set for my baby. Metal housings not plastic, I think the fit the style better.

I started yanking the paper off the filter. That is no easy task. The whole thing wants to deform when I do it. Frogman, yours looks so clean! How did you get the glue off from the factory. Did you soak it in something?

I have carb rebuild kits in the mail, as well as a bunch of other stuff. A table lift would be nice to have at this point...

Thanks for all the help. I'll be sure to post pictures once we start really getting into it.

I built a box out of rough sawn lumber and used a ramp to roll the bike up. The 360s are so light you dont really need a lift. Think it cost me around $15

True, but I also have a Street Glide and I definitely need a lift for working on that one!

The 360s are so easy to move around. I just slide them around the garage when they are in the way.

The glue, yeah that crap is fun. My secret, propane torch. Heat the side of the housing away from the glue, IE the back sides until the metal changes color or you hear the glue pop. Doesn't take much and don't want to break the glue holding the housing together if possible. The glue just falls out or at least the heat will weaken its grip.

The work is worth it either way even if you end up having to glue the housing back together. New filters will cost you at least 100$ They are at least available for the older models.