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Author Topic: Project xs750 lowrider  (Read 4124 times)

Offline d9canada

  • Posts: 46
  • Just keep pluggin' every day and it'll get done!
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #60 on: Apr 11, 2018, 15:11:49 »
And now for my next trick - a word about fiberglass materials and absorbency.

If you attempt to fiberglass something by wetting a surface and then getting glass materials stuck into it and then try to get the material "wet out" well and all air entrapment removed, you'll find that's not a simple task, especially in tight bend areas.  And you'll often see on TV, guys use a foil pan with resin and soak fiberglass cloth and then apply it to the work.  You can't do this with mat as easily.  So here's what's at issue:

All fiberglass materials are produced using "sizing" - a synthetic material like starch.  In fact, way back in the late 50s when I was a toddler, my Dad fiberglassed our sundeck and at that time, the material was actually formed with cornstarch.  So imagine you want to wet out glass with resin which is much thicker than water or paint.  The first thing that has to happen is that the sizing must dissolve.  When you put a piece of material into resin, even in a foil pan, it takes a few moments for the material to become translucent, indicating all air removed and it's saturated.  If a piece of material is added to a mold surface, even if the surface is already wet, it takes a bit of work dabbing with the tip of a stiff brush or using rollers to caress the material into the resin.  The thing to avoid is too much resin and yet that's the beginner's solution to air in the material or material that won't lay flat - hammer it with more resin.  Ideally, you should have at least 60% glass to resin, even with epoxy resing.

Lastly, you can do a very cheap effective "vacuum bagging" of your work using a shop vac and some special materials you can get from fiberglass supply shops.  Basically, you lay a non-stick sheet over the wet part of the work, then a layer or absorbent material (an old blanket works), and you can also put some foam scraps or bubble wrap on top to ensure an even distribution of the vacuum loading.  Provided you have no sharp edges, you can use ordinary poly sheet for the external bag.  I've used a simple shop vac (you must use a shop vacuum because the motor is independently cooled, not by airflow through the suction, because obviously, you're not going to have much flow.   I use adapters to a small hose, then an ordinary ball valve with a short piece of PVC on the end - that PVC is cross drilled so it's not easily plugged up and that is inserted above the absorbent area with another layer of absorbent on top.  Turn on the vacuum and you'll have effectively 3 - 4 pounds PER SQ IN pressure on your work.  This helps a lot to force materials into complex shapes and remove air entrapment.  You can Google vacuum bagging and even more advanced resin infusion (where the vacuum setup is enhanced with ports on the mold connect to your resin pot, so the vacuum pulls the resin through the work - and yes that takes planning!)

So there yah go, a bit more blah blah about glassing  :D
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2018, 15:37:33 by d9canada »
Brian
63 C105T
73 CB350F X2
77 CB400F X2
73 CB500 X2
77 CB550K X3
80 CB650
80 CB650C
Sandcast CB750 #1003245
71, 73 CB750K X5 (help me!)
78 CB750F X2
82 GL500
82 GL500 Interstate
83 CX650 Euro version
81 CB750C
80-82 CB900C X5 one with Motorvation FII sidecar
75 & 77 GL1000
82 CBX
83 Honda 750 Shadow
73 Norton 850 Commando

Offline jpmobius

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Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #61 on: Apr 11, 2018, 22:10:19 »
Well said on all accounts Mr. d9canada.  Thanks for taking so much time to add so much valuable info.  I'd like to add or reinforce the absolutely correct comments on the toxic characteristics of epoxy resins.  Certainly they are in general much more benign than in the past, but reasonable care is important for protecting ones health.  That said, many other activities undertaken in building bikes, cars, airplanes, boats, etc, etc provide similar caliber risks and in general it is reasonably easy to minimize them.  In my opinion the risks should not be off-putting to a sensible person using common sense and having a sense of self preservation, though opinions vary!  After all, motorcycles rate pretty high on many folks foolishness scale and all of us here ignore them!  I'd like to add, that epoxies, despite your observations on handling, are easy enough to use with a bit of experience just like polyester resin - a bit different perhaps, but I'd say one is no more difficult than the other.  Like most things, it takes a bit of exposure to get familiar enough for it to become easy.  On that note, I'll offer 2 comments. First, chopped strand mat, unlike woven cloth (as far as I know) is made with a binder  (not sure if this is this "sizing" you mentioned) that holds the strands together.  Polyester resin dissolves this binder so the mat conforms very nicely to complex and tight shapes.  Epoxy does not dissolve this binder, so I can see REALLY not liking epoxy if you had polyester experience first!  The binder does no harm in layups using epoxy aside from staying stiff and springy - exactly like it isn't after the binder dissolves in the polyester!  Never seen anyone use flour or sawdust etc to thicken epoxy - yikes!  My second comment is a technique for minimizing excess resin on difficult shapes and works for polyester or epoxy - though more needed I suppose when using epoxy.  I will sometimes paint a very thin coat of resin on my part (or mold) and let it start to cure, having the upcoming layer of cloth completely prepared in advance.  When it is very sticky, I squeegee the new layer in place - it is easy to get an absolutely perfect layup this way.  Once I am sure it will stay put, I wet out the layer.  I use very light weight laminations so this is never a problem for me, possibly heavy cloth or mat is an issue.  Very accurate constructions with very low resin content are practical using this technique.  And, while this does make for essentially 2 iterations of resin per lamination, I have never observed any integrity issues within laminations.  I am , however careful to wet out completely before the "sticky"  cures completely.
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2018, 22:14:10 by jpmobius »
Mobius


On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

1973 RD350 Yamaha build  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66498.0

Offline Markie-V

  • Posts: 68
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #62 on: Apr 11, 2018, 23:18:32 »
Thanks to everyone  for the ideas... I am going to go with a mold of the finished plug. I'll  be asking for advice as I go.
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2018, 08:18:23 by Markie-V »

Offline Markie-V

  • Posts: 68
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #63 on: Apr 12, 2018, 08:03:04 »
No better way to rid yourself  of the skeletons of a bad fiberglass tank fail, than to gather a mob, some lighted pitchforks and go pillage  the local mad scientist's place. I couldn't find a mob and wait...I am the local mad scientist.  Get out them marshmallows... the tank is burning.!
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2018, 08:19:34 by Markie-V »

Offline Markie-V

  • Posts: 68
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #64 on: Apr 12, 2018, 08:32:34 »
Well after a long day of pillaging with a burning pitchfork... I turned on the lights and decided the best way to get the bad taste of the fiberglass fail out of my mouth would be to build TANK II. I got it to its roughed up shape a lot faster this time because I cut the tank in half at the backbone and used a cardboard template of the backbone to draw a mirror image of the backbone on the inside of each half of the tank with a sharpie. Much faster than the way I did it before. Cut my time by 75 %. Today... I'll make the final shape.
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2018, 08:42:45 by Markie-V »

Offline Maritime

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Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #65 on: Apr 12, 2018, 09:52:46 »
Ha, looks good, sometimes we just need to have an epic fail to bring out the greatness.
The GL Rebirth: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=68337.0
CX500 Low budget Bobber : http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=43617.0
"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer" -Henry Lawson
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Markie-V

  • Posts: 68
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #66 on: Apr 12, 2018, 16:07:03 »
TANK II... Much faster than the first time.  Split the tank and drew the tunnel on the halves using a template of the backbone.  Learning.
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2018, 20:48:29 by Markie-V »

Offline d9canada

  • Posts: 46
  • Just keep pluggin' every day and it'll get done!
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #67 on: Apr 12, 2018, 17:23:29 »
Looks great, even upside down!   ;D ;D

Markie, if you're using a Windows computer and have your pictures loaded there, you can go into File Explorer, right click on the file and you'll get options including "Open With" click that and you get a choice of several products to use to view your picture.   

Right now, I don't now what product your machine defaults to, but I'd strongly suggest you use Windows Photo Viewer, but don't choose that even if you see it on the list.  If you have an option below saying Choose Another App, click that instead - you'll see why in a second.

Another window opens up and Windows Photo Viewer should be displayed but now, down below you have a check box lower down with words beside saying something like "Always use this application".  So choose Windows Photo Viewer, check the checkbox and then click OK.  Now whenever you double click on a picture file in File Explorer, by default it will be opened using Windows Photo Viewer. 

So, open a picture and at the bottom you will see tools along the bottom.  From far right, the red X closes the application.  Next, important to you, are arrows in circles.  These allow you to rotate your image right or left.  Note that if you rotate an image and then just close the application, you file will be saved in the new orientation. 

Next, in the middle are tools that allow you to cycle through other picture files in the same folder where the first file you opened came from.  The center tool allows you to have slideshow of all pictures in the current folder.  Further left is a button, press that and the picture displays actual size and on the left is a magnifying glass.  Click on that and you get a slide control.  Slide the slider to zoom in or out.  So now you can control your images better, if you're using a computer.

If you're using a phone, let me know what brand and I'll try to help you out on that.  I've spent a career doing systems for the RCMP, hence my tendancy to write verbose instruction files  :o  :P  ;D
Brian
63 C105T
73 CB350F X2
77 CB400F X2
73 CB500 X2
77 CB550K X3
80 CB650
80 CB650C
Sandcast CB750 #1003245
71, 73 CB750K X5 (help me!)
78 CB750F X2
82 GL500
82 GL500 Interstate
83 CX650 Euro version
81 CB750C
80-82 CB900C X5 one with Motorvation FII sidecar
75 & 77 GL1000
82 CBX
83 Honda 750 Shadow
73 Norton 850 Commando

Offline Markie-V

  • Posts: 68
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #68 on: Apr 12, 2018, 18:16:22 »
I know... every day, I have to go inside, download the pictures from here.save and edit them, then reload them. I do it every day. It's a new galaxy phone and so far, EVERY picture has loaded upside down.  It doesn't matter what way I hold the phone either. Always upside down until I go in and edit them.

Offline Markie-V

  • Posts: 68
Re: Project xs750 lowrider
« Reply #69 on: Apr 12, 2018, 18:19:57 »
 :BTW... I am going the long route and making female fiberglass molds. A little more work, but in the long run... I think it would be better to have the molds if I need them in the future .