Another CB360 charging issue thread (solved)

I'm having some really weird charging problems with my 360 that I'm hoping someone could help with. When I start it up, charging seems fine. But after riding about 1/4 mile down the road the volts start to drop. It goes down to ~12.5 vdc and doesnt climb with revs and stays that way. I have a mini volt meter in my gauge to monitor it while I'm riding. I looked through Sonreir's charging 101 thread to trace the issue down.

Here's the steps I went through and what I found:

[list type=decimal]
[*]resistance across stator wires is around 1.3 ohms
[*]Start the bike and getting 13+ vdc across terminals at idle and 13-18 vac from stator at 1200 rpm. climbs to 60+ vac by 5000 rpm
[*]rev up to 4k a couple times and it drops down to 12.5 vdc across terminals at idle and only climbs to 12.7 vdc at 3k rpm
[*]disconnect stator to measure a/c and still getting the same high teens readings
[*]reconnect stator and idle goes back up to 13.4 vdc across terminals and climbs to 14.8 vdc at 3k rpm
[*]rev up to 4k for about 10 seconds and volts start to drop again
[*]measure stator wires (without disconnecting this time) and only getting 6 vac at idle and only climbs to 7 vac at 4k rpm
[*]kill bike and start again and getting 13+v at idle and 13v at stator wires and doesn’t climb with revs
[/list]

current setup:
everything rebuilt (motor, frame, wiring harness, etc.) with about 30 miles on the rebuild currently.
stock stator
aftermarket reg/rect
yellow/white stator wires connected for charging boost
This all happens whether headlight is on or off

It looks like there should be a locating dowel in the front of the left crankcase cover and it isnt there so the stator might be off center a bit? When I put the left crank cover on I did make sure there is space the whole way around the rotor so the rotor shouldn't be rubbing much, if at all.

I'm thinking my stator might be bad but the reistance seems fine. I'm very bad when it comes to dealing with electricity so any help is greatly appreciated!

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

Sounds like maybe the reg-rec is breaking down when hot?

What reg-rec are you using?

Steve

Another CB360 charging issue thread

I have one of these scooter regulators similar to this https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aliexpress.com/item/32293321873.html?source=images#ampf=undefined.

I was thinking that too but the regulator isn't even getting that hot. It's only warm to touch. And the wires connected to it aren't hot either. And I have it mounted on the bottom of the seat pan where it gets plenty of air.

Though, now that I think about it, it did have a bad ground a while ago and got really hot and the insulation on the ground wire melted a bit. Maybe it did get fried. But it does a really good job keeping volts below 15. So I was thinking it was fine

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

I checked my reg/rect with instructions I found here https://advrider.com/index.php?threads/checking-stator-regulator-rectifier.1295861/

what I found with multimeter to diode setting:

connect negative lead to positive output of RR
reading: .472v from AC1, .462v from AC2, .828v from neg RR output pin

connect positive lead to positive output of RR
reading: .OL from all pins

connect negative lead to negative output of RR
reading: .0L from all pins

connect positive lead to negative output of RR
reading: .459v from AC1, .472v from AC2, .830v from pos RR output pin

Is it normal for the + to - to have that higher reading? If so, Im guessing my RR is fine, correct?

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

thrillseeker said:

ok so I checked my reg/rect with instructions I found here https://advrider.com/index.php?threads/checking-stator-regulator-rectifier.1295861/

Click to expand...

Tht seems to be talking about three phase generator, cb360 isnt three phase.

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

Sderbyshire said:

Tht seems to be talking about three phase generator, cb360 isnt three phase.

Click to expand...

Yeah Ive been trying to find a reference to test this 4 pin RR but searching isnt helping much so I just assumed I could transfer that logic to the 4 pin by checking the 2 inputs instead of 3. If anyone has a reference I could go off I'd appreciate a link!

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

ok I found a diagram that seems be for this RR found at http://scootdawg.proboards.com/thread/30311/gy6-regulator-testing



my results where white:AC1, yellow:AC2, red:+, green:-
For my situation, white matches to the yellow honda wire and yellow is the pink honda wire.


Those results seem strange so, thinking that I might have switched the ground and power leads, I tested again with those swapped:


That doesnt look right either. The numbers are all really high and dont match up right. So maybe I do need a new RR.

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

When i bought my 360 the PO had swapped the 4pin loom comnectors resulting in the alternator output going to the neutral light.
Symptoms were the neutral light glowing increasingly with revs, and never going out !

I corrected the fault, and initially tried a Kohler reg rec which sort of worked.

Then upgrading to a LifePo4 battery i bought a new reg rec from Matt/Sonreir at SparcMoto

The cb360 has a basic charging system that operates at ‘half power’ when the headlight is off and ‘full power’ when the headlamp is on, this is what the white and yellow wires do. A common/essential mod is to overide the ‘half power’ mode.

Have a search, but if i recall you conmect the white and yellow wires to give ‘full power’ at all times. This and a decent reg rec is the way to go.

Hth

Steve

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

Sderbyshire said:

When i bought my 360 the PO had swapped the 4pin loom comnectors resulting in the alternator output going to the neutral light.
Symptoms were the neutral light glowing increasingly with revs, and never going out !

I corrected the fault, and initially tried a Kohler reg rec which sort of worked.

Then upgrading to a LifePo4 battery i bought a new reg rec from Matt/Sonreir at SparcMoto

The cb360 has a basic charging system that operates at ‘half power’ when the headlight is off and ‘full power’ when the headlamp is on, this is what the white and yellow wires do. A common/essential mod is to overide the ‘half power’ mode.

Have a search, but if i recall you conmect the white and yellow wires to give ‘full power’ at all times. This and a decent reg rec is the way to go.

Hth

Steve

Click to expand...

thanks Steve. I have already done that modification a few years ago to bypass the headlight switch. I also don't have a neutral dummy light any longer. I have the white and yellow wires connected to each other out of the alternator and going straight to the regulator. I'm definitely considering a new RR from Sonreir. I just contacted him an hour ago actually.

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

Personally I don't do 'the mod' but treat each output as an output. That way you can use pretty much any 3 phase reg/rect and the internal diodes rarely even get warm. Some more modern reg/rect need to be connected and engine running to actually work though, the regulator doesn't 'cut in' until it has an ac input. (can't think of a better way to describe it at present) Anyway, if you have a faulty ground and melted insulation, I would forget about that reg/rect and get a 'new' one from wrecked Honda, (anything modern, CBR, etc) Don't use a Suzuki one, they are mostly crap on GSX-R's, (particularly 2006~2012) The cruiser ones seem reliable enough though, they have a different type of generator putting out max power at lower rpm (delta instead of wye wound)

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

Nice I didn't realize you could just run all 3 outputs straight to the rr and buy a 3 phase regulator. I'll have to look into that. Does it matter at that point which ac wire goes to which connector on the 3 phase rr as long as its one of the ac inputs? Is there any benefit to doing that over just connecting the white/yellow wires and running just 2 wires to the regulator?


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Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

Doesn't matter a bit, AC in, DC out on red. Kawasaki are the only ones I ever have issues with as they tend to have all white wires and only the block connector knows which is which. All you need is a 3 phase Rectifier with built in Regulator from a permanent magnet system

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

dang, 3 phase units are a lot more expensive! people are asking upwards of $45 for a used regulator from a CBR

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

I used all the CB/CM250/400 units within 20 mile radius when I lived in Britain, fitted them to 'everything' (Old Honda's, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, etc) Alternatively, one that works well is Suzuki Intruder VS800, I fitted one to my 360 because it looks different and fitted where I wanted. There are pictures of it in my 'Build to Blog'.
Oh, you could look through the list of R/R for something different, I think in 1-800 cafe help?

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

That blows my mind that you can use a single phase stator with a 3 phase rectifier. how the heck does that work? Does it just not matter what pattern/order the a/c waves enter the rectifier?

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

Wave pattern doesn't really matter as long as regulator is OK. Your only using pairs of diodes at any time. There is a slight possibility of waves combining and getting a voltage spike but I have neither equipment or interest in finding out as I know it works fine for me (it would have to be lab grade oscilloscope, etc) Hell, you could use 4 medium amp power diodes to make a rectifier and it would be at least as efficient as most OEM for probably 1/10 the cost. The regulator is what really costs the cash, the more accurate it is the more it's going to cost.The 'giant' power transistor regulator for my Katana was $125.00 last time I checked (after-market, Suzuki wanted a lot more) It was necessary to have at least a basic electronic knowledge to fix bikes in the mid 80's, way too many 'techs' still just throw parts at electrical problems hoping something will work. The system on 360 is about as basic as it gets and dead simple to swap original separate regulator and rectifier to something better.

Another CB360 charging issue thread

Ended up ordering a single phase rr from sonreir. I hope that does the trick. I like that it comes with the connector so I can wire it into my harness nicely

Re: Another CB360 charging issue thread

She's charging! Got the new regulator from sonreir at sparck moto, hooked it up in 15 minutes, fired her up and she's charging like a champ!! Thanks all for the help!! I'll post a video soon.


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