The Amalgam: honda past meets present, take 2! or 3?

Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

wheeeww, you almost crushed everyones dreams with that motor
Always good to have a plan B though
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Kamn said:
wheeeww, you almost crushed everyones dreams with that motor
Always good to have a plan B though

Not really there pooper scooper... I have seen many FI attempts tossed aside when the cost factor takes over, I have no dreams, but i would like to see it done so I can copy it :eek:
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Tune-A-Fish said:
Not really there pooper scooper... I have seen many FI attempts tossed aside when the cost factor takes over, I have no dreams, but i would like to see it done so I can copy it :eek:

Actually the cost isn't bad at all. The hardest part is the aluminum manifold for the throttle bodies. Otherwise it's just plug and play, well relatively anyway.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

jag767 said:
Actually the cost isn't bad at all. The hardest part is the aluminum manifold for the throttle bodies. Otherwise it's just plug and play, well relatively anyway.

No ones doubting you mang... Keep on truckin :eek: Oh and if the manifold is all you need i can tig up something if I have a template(s) and tube size, design and layout
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Tune-A-Fish said:
No ones doubting you mang... Keep on truckin :eek: Oh and if the manifold is all you need i can tig up something if I have a template(s) and tube size, design and layout

Haha I know, just reporting a little of what i figured out. Through sheer dumb luck, the motor I picked to inject appears to be easily doable. For anyone following along that does wants to give it a go, the crooks of it are pick up a power dynamo higher output stator, any digital ignition that sends a good signal which can be used as a crank position sensor, cb500x throttle bodies, wire harness, ecu, and 02 sensor. After that the remaining hurdles are tricking the coolant temp sensor, which can be done with a temp sensor just strategically put on the motor, and the tip sensor, which if trying to do the bypass is too much trouble, i'd just install one. From everything Iwas able to learn, that should do it ;D.

As far as the financial component of it, the biggest costs are in the motor rebuild.

Vapor blasting 2-300
Bore, valve seats, decked, and new guides pressed around 400
pistons 600
cams 500
Valve spring conversion 500
guides 60
gaskets 50
cam chain 80
bolts 80
clutch 150
High output oil pump 500
exhaust flanges 80

So about 3300 before the injection.

This is why the cb500x motor for $500 bones is so attractive. 3k on it, ready to go, even with all the peripherals is under 1K. Then theres the cost to shoe horn it into the frame, which I figured still isn't the end of the world. I think I could bend up the tubing needed, would just need help with the motor mounts to keep good sprocket alignment. Hell even if I paid someone there still a big budget savings. And, since at least in ny the bike is titled off the frame, it's technically still a fuel injected Cb450 :p.

So while the injection doesnt have anything to do with cost, a soup to nuts top end build is 6x more money than my other engine option. Food for thought!

Tune I may take you up on that, since I have zero skill with welding aluminum. It'd need a flange on the motor side, then a spigot style mount for the throttle body side, and would have to have two 45's to taper it in, with about a 6 inch runner length. I could easily get something on paper for it.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Came in the mail today. Damn that bitch is heavy for a 500. Oh, and what fucking asshole ships a motor with the oil in it???
 

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Free oil, less to spend on the build! Think positive man!

FYI I may know someone looking for a 450 motor if you don't go that route.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Tune-A-Fish said:
Nice. I got a gas tank with gas init a while back ::)

Haha wow. The damn thing was soaked! All in the packing, box, fucking mess! had to have at least 2 quarts come out.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

xulf13 said:
Free oil, less to spend on the build! Think positive man!

FYI I may know someone looking for a 450 motor if you don't go that route.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll know very soon where this is going. I took the top end apart, but everything is meticulously labeled and came apart easy. Please let him know, since if I don't use it there's no reason to have it sitting around.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Just read through this thread. So cool! Count me in. I really do hope you can work it out with plan A ;D

I know you already have the throttle bodies and injectors and you got them for a good price, but have you considered these guys? I have been looking into this possibility for my next project. It would perhaps save some headaches trying to get all sorts of ECUs, ignition modules, O2 sensors to work together etc. Plus save some coin in the long run? They also have a strong support team... Dunno, just a thought :)

http://www.ecotrons.com/products/400cc_to_800cc_engine_fuel_injection_kit/
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

JadusMotorcycleParts said:
Just read through this thread. So cool! Count me in. I really do hope you can work it out with plan A ;D

I know you already have the throttle bodies and injectors and you got them for a good price, but have you considered these guys? I have been looking into this possibility for my next project. It would perhaps save some headaches trying to get all sorts of ECUs, ignition modules, O2 sensors to work together etc. Plus save some coin in the long run? They also have a strong support team... Dunno, just a thought :)

http://www.ecotrons.com/products/400cc_to_800cc_engine_fuel_injection_kit/

Welcome aboard!

Funny you mention ecotrons, as I've actually already spoken to them, and I think microsquirt may be the better option in case the honda ecu doesn't pan out.

Ironically, I think I have it figured out, but as I mentioned, financially it makes so much sense to use the 500 motor, looking at about a 2k savings, it's hard to ignore. With a 2 month old in the house now, suddenly I have to care about things like budget lol!

The other interesting part is the 500's aren't horribly fast bikes, but should I use it, it'd be in a bike that'll weigh around 80 lbs less. I'm not expecting miracles, but I think the performance would be quite surprising from the amalgam of parts I'm putting together.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Well.... not to disappoint anyone, but after going over numbers, unless I want this to be a 3 year build (i'd much prefer 3 months) the 450 engine is hitting the chopping block. I simply don't have the money to rebuild it as I'd like, and I'm not one to settle. The silver lining is the project will go on, just taking new life. As it is I still need to sell at least one bike to get the funds I need.

So if anyone needs a cb450 engine please let me know! She's dirty, but mechanicalyl in very good shape. I'd wager with a sonic blast it'd all look new.

I should have an update trying to shoehorn this motor in shortly.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

jag767 said:
Well.... not to disappoint anyone, but after going over numbers, unless I want this to be a 3 year build (i'd much prefer 3 months) the 450 engine is hitting the chopping block. I simply don't have the money to rebuild it as I'd like, and I'm not one to settle. The silver lining is the project will go on, just taking new life. As it is I still need to sell at least one bike to get the funds I need.

So if anyone needs a cb450 engine please let me know! She's dirty, but mechanicalyl in very good shape. I'd wager with a sonic blast it'd all look new.

I should have an update trying to shoehorn this motor in shortly.

"Actually the cost isn't bad at all"

No disappointment here, I know how these things go and cost benefit is something I deal with daily, let it go and build the 500R so you can ride :eek:
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Tune-A-Fish said:
"Actually the cost isn't bad at all"

No disappointment here, I know how these things go and cost benefit is something I deal with daily, let it go and build the 500R so you can ride :eek:

Yeah, yeah, that's out of context haha. As you know I was referring to the injection, which costs the same or less than a new set of carbs.

That being said, it legitimately saves me a buttload of money (that's a technical term) to use the modern motor, for something with about the same performance I am trying to get. I will be measuring up the motor to the frame tomorrow to see what surgery is needed. The downtube will be easy, not sure about the rest.
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

jag767 said:
Yeah, yeah, that's out of context haha. As you know I was referring to the injection, which costs the same or less than a new set of carbs.

That being said, it legitimately saves me a buttload of money (that's a technical term) to use the modern motor, for something with about the same performance I am trying to get. I will be measuring up the motor to the frame tomorrow to see what surgery is needed. The downtube will be easy, not sure about the rest.

Well this is FOX News right? gota spin to win.

Metal manipulation is the easy part... making it all function or play well together always presents a challenge
 
Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build

Tune-A-Fish said:
Well this is FOX News right? gota spin to win.

Metal manipulation is the easy part... making it all function or play well together always presents a challenge

Well I took playing well out of it now :D. I'm using the entire set of peripherals that go with the motor, just need to pick up a sensor or two, and the radiator. Will just be a matter of cramming it all in, and making sure the sprockets are aligned. I'll also need a 520 rear sprocket but I know that's available somewhere.
 
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???

Newer power tends to have the output shaft much higher forcing you to cradle it lower so the top of the sprocket is not lifting the chain out of the slider guide on the swingarm also keep in mind to keep it back as close to the swingarm as you can to prevent chain bind... I had a simple drawing of the triangulation for this but you likely know what's up 8)
 
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???

Tune-A-Fish said:
Newer power tends to have the output shaft much higher forcing you to cradle it lower so the top of the sprocket is not lifting the chain out of the slider guide on the swingarm also keep in mind to keep it back as close to the swingarm as you can to prevent chain bind... I had a simple drawing of the triangulation for this but you likely know what's up 8)

Wow ya got me I didn't think about the output shaft height. I don't have measurements but I don't think it's a world off based on photos, but the 500 sump is very low. Yes I'm good on position for the chain, I will get it all the way back like the 450 motor was. This frame has less room for the motor than my 350f even does, looks to be real close to the new motor. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a massive amount of hacking and welding, especially for the new mounts. The chain may be a little tricky since I have to use a 14t drive sprocket to match the 38t rear. Factory is 15/41but I don't see that available for the 450 wheel. Worst case I could go with a slider for the chain I guess, but don't think that's needed.
 
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