Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

I am excited to get this bike underway. I am hoping for a light speedy around town bike and weekend scrambler. Compression is bad on the left cylinder so I plan to sort that out. I am contemplating converting it to a 500cc but have no experience in that process. Why would I do that? Why not? I want light weight and clean. I don't care for electronics other than tail light and head light. I might keep the center stand because it is so practical in different terrain. I will probably keep the electric start but mount the switch somewhere else.

The spokes are rusted out and I have no experience re lacing wheels. I am sure I will need help there.

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

Naked bike

Light it will never be unfortunately but it could be lighter than it it is. The CB500 used a different crank with longer stroke. You could buy the parts or a spare 500 motor, but for a round town scoot/weekend off road warrior, maybe just freshen the motor and lighten it. Stock pegs will work for your use. Stock bars are not nice. maybe a set of MX bars with center cross beam or gold (or other color) aluminum fat bars.

Front numberplate and small headlamp would work up front with an XR style rear rubber light bracket on a plastic fender at the rear.

Longer shocks on the rear would help gain some ground clearance but you might need a longer swingarm to make that work right.

Look at Dual Sport bikes for ideas on the seat and side panels. It's unlikely that anything will fit perfectly bust start by playing with ideas and doing some research. Look at Honda Dual Sport bikes of the last couple of decades like the XR series or KTM off road bikes - for ideas not to copy blindly.

Look also at Baja and Dakar race bikes for ideas that might be copied or adapted.

Of course it would be easier to start with a modern light dual sport, but where's the challenge in that?

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

Nice. They make great little bikes. I agree with Teazer on the cc increase. If you are planning to overbore to 500, you will likely find the cost of new Pistons and boring is not worth the modest hp gains for an around-towner.


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From a quick read on SOHC4, it seems that the 450 and 500T cranks use different bearing types, and that it probably isn't an easy swap over. Although the gear ratios in the 500's were apparently better.
Don't know what your final hope looks wise is for the bike, but you've got one with plenty of potential. Personally I think Lossa Engineerings CL450 revamp was rad and still very much rideable (unlike many of the other bikes on the interwebs..) might give you a few ideas.

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

I've been lusting after the lossa engineering bike for a while now. That guys is sick. I can only hope. I do have other bikes that I can ride so there isn't pressure to rush through this and cut corners. Also with these 450s becoming more and more rare I really want to attempt to do it justice. Here is what I saw on eBay but haven't had time to research http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=231394795275

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

Flugtechnik said:

Nice. They make great little bikes. I agree with Teazer on the cc increase. If you are planning to overbore to 500, you will likely find the cost of new Pistons and boring is not worth the modest hp gains for an around-towner.


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here is my thought process.....i am pretty sure I am going to need to bore the cylinders due to low compression which means the cost of rings and bore which I am just guessing costs about $125 (honestly don't know) so for a whopping $325 more I could have some more power. I really am open to suggestions. Something about increased horsepower in any amount gets me excited but it might be a foolish way to spend money. The next two weeks are pretty much research and tear down for me. I might work on the wiring harness or something cheap since my funding for this project won't be in until the end of the month.

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

teazer said:

Of course it would be easier to start with a modern light dual sport, but where's the challenge in that?

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Ya that's the truth!!!! I own an fz07 and that thing is so light I swear it could be a dirt bike but I have waaay more fun riding a bike that I have sweat equity in.

Some time spent on SOHC4 & hondatwins forums will no doubt help you find answers to some of the engine questions. There's some good info here.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=9001.0

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

Good read bootsey helpful and intimidating. Here goes my first stupid question...... I am tearing the engine down and need to get the cam chain removed. I don't have a chain breaker tool. I can pick one up but I am wondering....when removing the master link do people replace the link every time the chain is removed? Or after you use the breaker tool is the master link still usable? Does it just slip back in and you flatten the pins? Because if a master link replacement is always inevitable I might as well just use a grinder and cut the rivets back allowing me to get it apart, save money, and get into this engine.

yes just grind you will be using a new chain anyway

Cool bike. The 450 freshened up should be as good as the 500 for the intended use, now if you were gonna put a whole new power plant in I would dig around for an XR650 chunk someone stuffed in the barn all bent up and can part with for low denero, that would both make power and bump the cool factor a notch.

New link is a must, the existing will chip in most cases and not have the material to shoulder the pin again. If you grind it use some grease around the rest of the chain to catch the grind tailings and mask it with duct tape, that shit is the absolute worst for a chain/motor it's not just metal, but mostly what you were grinding with... Oxide grinding powder in the oil is sure to kill rotating parts.

Have fun, take criticism with a grain of salt, purists in the motorcycle game can make it less fun, but usually are right... when you think something looks cool, ask yourself if cool is overriding function, someone will tell you if your doing it wrong.

RD

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

Yep, if the compression loss is due to bad cylinder walls then an overbore to 500 won't be a big deal. But best to make that decision after you determine the cause of the compression loss. May just be the valves. I will warn you that getting the valve seats recut on this bike will require shortening of the valves equal to the depth of the recut because the tolerances on this head are pretty tight. If you go down this road send me a PM and I will elaborate. Have fun!


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FWIW, the 500t made less HP than the 450 did, has a lower compression ratio. It does make more torque. My 450 engine went back together with a .75 overbore, new pistons and rings which I manged to nail off ebay pretty much as a matched set, someone was selling the cylinders and pistons fairly cheap. My original liners were shot, like almost rusted through to the aluminum so no go on that lane. Runs like a raped ape when I can manage to get it out of the garage when the weather is nice. She will be getting some vintage bates bags added pretty soon, starting to be nice again and I want to go MC camping. 8)

Cam chain tool can be had at Harbor Freight or you can modify and bicycle chain tool if you have the ingenuity. Harbor Freight tool might need the pin ground a little though, I've looked at getting one for a while and never have.

You have tested the compression with a teaspoon of oil in that cylinder right? If the pressure goes up significantly the rings may be worn or stuck. Stuck rings can be freed sometimes with a good soak of penetrating fluid, like PB blaster or a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF or whatever witches brew people use. Soak a few days then fire the engine and get it hot, then test the compression.

Checking valve clearances is also a must, there's a fine line on these engines between right and tight, better to run them a little loose actually, .002" is recommended now days instead of that .0012-0015" which ever it is. Lets little more oil film happen on the cam which can make things last a little longer.

Cool project though, I still have another 450 to play with, have yet to decide what I'm gonna do with it.

How many miles is on it?

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

This is good info. I am wondering if I should put the engine back together and double check that the compression loss is not due to the valves. I also did not check it with oil in the cylinder to check the rings. I knew about that trick but forgot (it's been a while). The bike only has 2100miles on the odometer but I am pretty sure it sat outside for years in the humid south. It is pretty rusty and doesn't show signs of care or upkeep.

The right side was 120 psi and the left was 90.

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

hondamaha said:

I am wondering if I should put the engine back together and double check that the compression loss is not due to the valves.

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Correction... That the compression loss is not due to poorly adjusted valves. Anything other than that and I might as well see what's going on inside.

If you have already not dropped the cam chain, tie it up before cutting the link off. Youl will have tocrack the crank case to replace it if you have let one end go.

TheCoffeeGuy said:

If you have already not dropped the cam chain, tie it up before cutting the link off. Youl will have tocrack the crank case to replace it if you have let one end go.

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no thats a common worry without any basis
actually with the jugs off it is easy to fish a cam chain under the crank drive sprocket and it can be done with cylinder block in place as well

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

TheCoffeeGuy said:

If you have already not dropped the cam chain, tie it up before cutting the link off. Youl will have tocrack the crank case to replace it if you have let one end go.

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Man, thanks for the heads up. I saw that in the manual but......never hurts to hear it twice. My wife says it usually takes twice before it sinks in.

Re: Honda CL450 "Black and Tan"

hondamaha said:

Man, thanks for the heads up. I saw that in the manual but......never hurts to hear it twice. My wife says it usually takes twice before it sinks in.

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it is easier for sure not to have to fish the chain around but you don't have to split the case that is just ridiculous
and get a new chain