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Author Topic: The Worst Ducati in Dallas  (Read 4942 times)

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 203
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #40 on: Dec 04, 2017, 22:08:21 »
Time for another update.




Those wit a keen eye will recognize this as the Radical Ducati seat from previous posts. I managed to track down Yann in France and had him make this up. I plan to remake this from carbon fiber using this one to make a mold. Of course there was a bit of a language barrier to overcome. He asked if I wanted the additional "mount" (thanks google translate) and of course, I did. I really thought that a proper mount for this was too good to be true but if he had it why not? Turns out that he meant seat pan for upholstering. Since there is zero chance of this fitting the stock subframe, I am going to be crafting that as well. In a perfect world, I'd make a one piece seat/subframe. We're just gonna have to see how things turn out.
1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 203
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #41 on: Dec 10, 2017, 22:09:06 »
I think the days for quick progress are behind me. Now is the time of year to wear my fingerprints down so that my phone doesn't recognize me.

The big question is how does the seat fit?

I'll go with reasonably well. There will need to be some tweaks here and there but ultimately it is the aesthetic I was after. I spent much of the day prototyping a subframe. The lines I want look as if they will work but time will tell. The overall arc works as prescribed. And with any luck, the lines for the subframe will land parallel to an existing line.


While I was waiting for the subframe prototype to cure, I took to polishing some parts. I put a shine on the rear sprocket carrier and the intake trumpets. These will either be further polished and/or anodized.


1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 203
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #42 on: Dec 13, 2017, 21:03:57 »
Ok, in this update I'm gonna ask for a little help. I'd like to think that I have a better than average understanding of composite materials but I'm moving into uncharted waters here. I do not question one bit that I can make some composite parts that are absolutely beautiful and will look great on a show floor. However, showing is only job 1 for this bike. I fully intend to ride the wheels off it. So, it has to be strong. Nobody wants to hit their ass on a rear tire at speed.

So, I am asking for help and suggestions about the subframe design I m working on. At this point I plan to remanufacture the Radical Ducati seat from Carbon Fiber. During this process, I have the option to combine the subframe with the seat making a monocoque design. Besides rider weight, the structure will need to support the ECU and an Antigravity battery. To say this is an important piece is the understatement of the year. I mean, I've crashed this bike once...Let't hope that was the one and only.

K. Here's where I'm headed. Please no jokes, PVC pipe was the nearest analog to the carbon tubes I plan to use.


This picture shows the lines of the fame that I intend to continue. The subframe tubes will be notched to but together perfectly before being bonded and wrapped with reinforcing fibers creating a (what I hope) is a solid junction.


This next picture shows another angle of the proposed layout. I am wondering if I need to add supports at the points in which the subframe mounts to the frame and if a gusset will necessary at the angled junction at the back of the subframe.

I'll reiterate that I plan to bond the seat to the subframe and create a monocoque structure if I can figure how to fit all the necessary parts inside.

So, any input from the group? Also, if there is anybody local with good knowledge of carbon/composite manufacturing in the DFW area that is willing to come help, I've got Dallas Blonde on tap.
 
1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)

Offline teazer

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Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #43 on: Dec 13, 2017, 22:12:37 »
Check out the Aprilia RS125R and the 250 twins for ideas on a seat /subframe made from C/F.  125 was skinny at the front - maybe 60mm wide plus two side bolts. RSV250R was like the cup bikes except that there was no aluminum subframe hiding inside it. Check with Micah at AF1 in Austin, he may have some pictures on file somewhere.

Basically the 250 seat was attached at two points on each side like the subframe and I think it included honeycomb to add three dimensionality.  You need torsional rigidity.   

Offline DesmoDog

  • Posts: 250
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #44 on: Dec 15, 2017, 01:16:15 »
IMHO if you are going to use composite materials, design the piece to take advantage of the material. Don't just copy round tubes. Take teazer's advice and look at how other companies are doing it.

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 203
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #45 on: Dec 16, 2017, 13:01:16 »
Thanks for the feedback Teazer and DesmoDog. I have taken it to heart. After staring at the bike and researching carbon sub-frames and monocoque tail sections, I agree that I was headed down the wrong path. I think I can do better. The trick is the make the thing strong enough and keep the aesthetic.




At this point, this is the look I want. I still think the tubular support of the tail is key to the look of the bike. Also, I really like the idea of using all four of the stock mounting points. However, the more I think on this, the more I question it.



I suppose that I could use all four stock mounts and ditch the tubular supports using a mounting design like the one pictured above. Iím just not sure this bike will look correct with a floating tail. I think that you guys are right that with the correct layup the tail should be plenty strong and not need a more traditional skeleton.


I guess all thatís left now is to try a couple of things and see what works.
1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)

Offline brad black

  • Posts: 147
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #46 on: Dec 17, 2017, 07:16:51 »
the sb6 had a carbon rear section, and it was basically an inverted u section.  typically of any material flanged edges and curves should help it strength wise.

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 203
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #47 on: Dec 27, 2017, 20:04:13 »
I've been playing with some designs and prototyping a little over the holiday. I decided to play with some ABS plastic to get some shapes that I can eventually build a mold from. I figured an ABS laminate would more mimic what is possible with composites than plastic tubes. While these are very crude, I think they will pave the way for the final design. I think if I correctly integrate a "U" shape as suggested by Brad I can get the desired structure. Admittedly, this is simply the first step in the monocoque development. Dare I ask for feedback?







1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)

Offline teazer

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Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #48 on: Dec 27, 2017, 20:19:34 »
You have the right idea.  Maybe even slicker if you could drape the shape outside of those lugs with mounts dimpled in and alloy spacers inside the lugs for a more streamlined look or leave them where they are for a more bare bones look.

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 203
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #49 on: Dec 28, 2017, 19:42:04 »
You have the right idea.  Maybe even slicker if you could drape the shape outside of those lugs with mounts dimpled in and alloy spacers inside the lugs for a more streamlined look or leave them where they are for a more bare bones look.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here.  :(
1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)