CharlieT
I remember the days before there was dirt.
Haters to the left of me, haters to the right...here I am stuck in the middle again!
Ok, first, explain to me how a KZ750ltd, an inline-4 UJMC is a copy-cat of a V-twin cruiser?
I do recall a Honda that was a copy cat of a Harley. They called it the RS750. I recall a guy named Bubba Shobert that rode one. Now how did that turn out? I'm sure Harley remembers those days well.
And made in America for these two new models?? Not in my opinion. From what I've read is that they are indeed made in India, but will be assembled in Kansas. So I suppose technically they are made in America. But explain to me how decades of Goldwings, the Valkyrie are Jap bikes, even though they were indeed *built* in the good ol' USA? Kinds sense a double standard there of what defines "American-made".
I grew up watching KR750 sliding around the fairgrounds and have always wanted one of them. THere are other Harley models I'd also love to have, but I also lived thru the decades of the bowling pin years of AMF when they were indeed a piece of crap. I also own a tariff-restricted Interceptor.
In riding one of my Goldwings or the Valkyrie around one easily made observation is that its more often that not when you wave at an oncoming rider, the ones who don't wave back are typically Harley riders and once or twice a year my wave receives a one-finger salute in return......always from a Harley rider. I also know a fellow Valkyrie rider who was traveling thru Wisconsin and had the misfortune of passing thru the are during an anniversary celebration in Milwaukee. He awoke from his motel room and went out to discover his Valkyrie had had its seats slashed multiple times and his tank bashed in, the only such damaged bike in a parking lot full of......Harleys!
SO yeah, there are plenty of Harley haters out there, some for good reason, but there are surely more than enough Harley riders out there that are hardcore non-Harley haters.
I really don't give a dam what anyone rides Harley, Asian, Italian, Brit.....but if you are the kind of individual who can only be happy with what you ride by putting down everything else, so be it. But if you want to give me crap about what I ride because it ain't what you ride, then I'm likely to tell you to eF-off you effin a-hole.
Ok, first, explain to me how a KZ750ltd, an inline-4 UJMC is a copy-cat of a V-twin cruiser?
I do recall a Honda that was a copy cat of a Harley. They called it the RS750. I recall a guy named Bubba Shobert that rode one. Now how did that turn out? I'm sure Harley remembers those days well.
And made in America for these two new models?? Not in my opinion. From what I've read is that they are indeed made in India, but will be assembled in Kansas. So I suppose technically they are made in America. But explain to me how decades of Goldwings, the Valkyrie are Jap bikes, even though they were indeed *built* in the good ol' USA? Kinds sense a double standard there of what defines "American-made".
I grew up watching KR750 sliding around the fairgrounds and have always wanted one of them. THere are other Harley models I'd also love to have, but I also lived thru the decades of the bowling pin years of AMF when they were indeed a piece of crap. I also own a tariff-restricted Interceptor.
In riding one of my Goldwings or the Valkyrie around one easily made observation is that its more often that not when you wave at an oncoming rider, the ones who don't wave back are typically Harley riders and once or twice a year my wave receives a one-finger salute in return......always from a Harley rider. I also know a fellow Valkyrie rider who was traveling thru Wisconsin and had the misfortune of passing thru the are during an anniversary celebration in Milwaukee. He awoke from his motel room and went out to discover his Valkyrie had had its seats slashed multiple times and his tank bashed in, the only such damaged bike in a parking lot full of......Harleys!
SO yeah, there are plenty of Harley haters out there, some for good reason, but there are surely more than enough Harley riders out there that are hardcore non-Harley haters.
I really don't give a dam what anyone rides Harley, Asian, Italian, Brit.....but if you are the kind of individual who can only be happy with what you ride by putting down everything else, so be it. But if you want to give me crap about what I ride because it ain't what you ride, then I'm likely to tell you to eF-off you effin a-hole.
biker_reject
Over 1,000 Posts
Funny, of the years riding my Buells, I could count the number of HD waves on one hand. 
But, I digress. As far as HD's being excellent bikes, they and BMW's rate lower reliability than the Big 4. We are talking mechanical reliability. And as far as HD building a fast bike? Only Eric Buell could do that and even with his expertise, the hopped up Sporty engine of the XB line still could not match a mid sized supersport from the Big 4. It is what it is, old tech with excellent marketing. The legion of HD stalwarts mistaking myth for hype...
But, I digress. As far as HD's being excellent bikes, they and BMW's rate lower reliability than the Big 4. We are talking mechanical reliability. And as far as HD building a fast bike? Only Eric Buell could do that and even with his expertise, the hopped up Sporty engine of the XB line still could not match a mid sized supersport from the Big 4. It is what it is, old tech with excellent marketing. The legion of HD stalwarts mistaking myth for hype...
Posting in this thread goes against my better judgement. Whatever. I grew up disliking Harley's because dad was into British and Japanese bikes. He didn't hate on HD's and neither did I but I couldn't see owning one. We owned a Kawasaki/Suzuki dealership in the 80's for about 8 years. I've always been a sport or dirt bike guy. About three years ago I rode a friends Heritage Softtail and dug it. Now I own an older Shovelhead chop that I've really fallen for and really look forward to spring riding. I don't ride my ZRX1100 like the Shovelhead and vise-versa. Kinda like Yinzer said, I dig a bike for what it is, not what it isn't, although I think art-bikes are kinda silly.
[edit] as for HD's new 750. Cheers to HD and keep moving forward. It's not something I'd buy but I'm glad to see them adding to the lineup.
[edit] as for HD's new 750. Cheers to HD and keep moving forward. It's not something I'd buy but I'm glad to see them adding to the lineup.
In comes Rich with his verbal imagery of Japanese tentacle porn... :0
I feel like I've come a bit late into this thread, but I like the idea of more smaller-engined bikes. I'm glad to see a shift in that direction.
I think it's pretty easy to hate on HD because they're the big kid on the block (in the US, anway). I do sometimes lament that the perception is that they put more money into marketing than they do R&D, but it's making money for them...
That said, I wouldn't mind owning one. The only V-twin I've ridden was the CX, but I'm told the HDs are good for what they are.
I think it's pretty easy to hate on HD because they're the big kid on the block (in the US, anway). I do sometimes lament that the perception is that they put more money into marketing than they do R&D, but it's making money for them...
That said, I wouldn't mind owning one. The only V-twin I've ridden was the CX, but I'm told the HDs are good for what they are.
gijoe13844
Coast to Coast
ApriliaBill said:
Except this new line is made in India...yep
Scruffy
West Tennessee
I'll reserve judgement until I see how the Made in India, Assembled in the USA conglomeration works in the real world.
I used to own Harley Davidsons, but the ones I prefer are no longer affordable. I've owned them from model year 1920 through model year 1993, and prefer the old side valve big twins and pre-1965 OHV big twins. The old kick only 6v big twins always held up better for me.
If nothing else, the introduction of water cooled entry level bikes should make for interesting reading on the forums...
I used to own Harley Davidsons, but the ones I prefer are no longer affordable. I've owned them from model year 1920 through model year 1993, and prefer the old side valve big twins and pre-1965 OHV big twins. The old kick only 6v big twins always held up better for me.
If nothing else, the introduction of water cooled entry level bikes should make for interesting reading on the forums...
ProSimex
RUN SCREAMING!!!
there were no more Harley Davidson's produced after 1967. Used though, I would be willing to pay a buck a cc for one of them bolt rip offs. Ill bet a virago engine would fit right in to that frame, would make a good field bike. No need for a side stand or anything, just let it drop where you stop0 like you used to do your bicycle when you were a kid.
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
You know what honestly gets me about the HD loving masses (as someone who again, has no issues with HDs) nowadays? The fact that so many of them act like HD is some sort of tradition loving, little guy supporting, family owned business. It's marketing at its best and all the chest beating "Live To Ride" God fearing and gun toting Americans are sopping it up like bread in soup.
Willy G and the rest of the "family" don't give a damn about anything other than the bottom line. If they did, they would have kept production in the States. But in the end that cuts into THEIR profits. Can't have that.
"Oh, but look at all they do for the HD community" you say smugly... You mean like throwing an anniversary party every year? The same one where they invite all of the loyalists to come cheer on the new years higher priced models while charging them $10 for a beer and $45 for a T-shirt? Sounds more like a gimmick than an event to celebrate the "culture".
"Ok, but what do the Japanese or European manufacturers do that's any better" you ask? Nothing. They dont try to create some bullshit "culture" to sell an antiquated and overpriced product. They sell a good and ever increasingly better product at a reasonable price. There money goes into racing and research and engineering. Development is key. They pay their customers back with better products not new gimmicks. So... I guess that's what they do thats "better".
Again, I have no issue with Harley because I see them for what they are. If others choose to see them for what HD tells them to see, that's their problem.
Oh, and before you get all riled up about this new (fucking awful looking ) HD coming out... You're all aware of the fact that it's just a desperate ploy by HD to sell more shit to foreign countries right? Hence the Indian manufacturing. Not the first time either. Their post war Japanese factory built bikes for the Asian market for many years.
Shit... None of this matters. If you've drank the black and orange KoolAid than nothing anyone says matters.
In the end HD is just another company out to fill their coffers with cash and more power to them. I just wish folks would stop acting like they're some sort of flag waving all American for the people band of loveable scamps. Ain't the case and hasnt been in several decades.
Willy G and the rest of the "family" don't give a damn about anything other than the bottom line. If they did, they would have kept production in the States. But in the end that cuts into THEIR profits. Can't have that.
"Oh, but look at all they do for the HD community" you say smugly... You mean like throwing an anniversary party every year? The same one where they invite all of the loyalists to come cheer on the new years higher priced models while charging them $10 for a beer and $45 for a T-shirt? Sounds more like a gimmick than an event to celebrate the "culture".
"Ok, but what do the Japanese or European manufacturers do that's any better" you ask? Nothing. They dont try to create some bullshit "culture" to sell an antiquated and overpriced product. They sell a good and ever increasingly better product at a reasonable price. There money goes into racing and research and engineering. Development is key. They pay their customers back with better products not new gimmicks. So... I guess that's what they do thats "better".
Again, I have no issue with Harley because I see them for what they are. If others choose to see them for what HD tells them to see, that's their problem.
Oh, and before you get all riled up about this new (fucking awful looking
) HD coming out... You're all aware of the fact that it's just a desperate ploy by HD to sell more shit to foreign countries right? Hence the Indian manufacturing. Not the first time either. Their post war Japanese factory built bikes for the Asian market for many years. Shit... None of this matters. If you've drank the black and orange KoolAid than nothing anyone says matters.
In the end HD is just another company out to fill their coffers with cash and more power to them. I just wish folks would stop acting like they're some sort of flag waving all American for the people band of loveable scamps. Ain't the case and hasnt been in several decades.
Hoosier Daddy
Earache my eye...
I am of the generation the "Made in America" meant something... today I feel it is almost egotistic as the almighty dollar has taken that away in many respects. "Show Me the Money!" is our national moto. :-\
Shit every American Manufaturer are beating up their Vendor base and we up for sale to the lowest bidder. Make no mistake and tell me my Honda GoldWing or Kia Sorento was made in the USA... it was ASSEMBLED here but the profits went overseas....
Forign companies have sent their youth here for an education and then taken it back home a refined it to a higher level for decades. We are now paying for it. What's more we sell them the raw materials to make something BETTER and CHEAPER that we can and then we turn around and we BUY it back!(Don't even get me going on Unions!)
For the majority of my working life I have delt with Ford, GM, Chrysler, either as a Service Tech or as of lately a Tier 1 or 2 supplier of manufatured parts. Let me fill you in on a little secrect, those parts that are made here to assemble the vehicles that are manufactured here in the USA... are done so on foriegn MACHINES!
Yep, Hepburn, Cincinatti Milacron and Van Dorn machines that were the icon for decades are being replaced with Kraus Mafii, Niigata, and Toshiba. Wake up, we simply can not compete and we are to blame.
BUT any Company that is on the brink of failure and the Employees pitch in to turn it around to a world wide Competitor has my utmost respect... and if it is one that is based here all the better!! Kudos to The Company who ventures out and doesn't rest on their morals / heratige / niche. Broad step for them and I hope it pays off.
Oh and spell check is for pussies
Shit every American Manufaturer are beating up their Vendor base and we up for sale to the lowest bidder. Make no mistake and tell me my Honda GoldWing or Kia Sorento was made in the USA... it was ASSEMBLED here but the profits went overseas....
Forign companies have sent their youth here for an education and then taken it back home a refined it to a higher level for decades. We are now paying for it. What's more we sell them the raw materials to make something BETTER and CHEAPER that we can and then we turn around and we BUY it back!(Don't even get me going on Unions!)
For the majority of my working life I have delt with Ford, GM, Chrysler, either as a Service Tech or as of lately a Tier 1 or 2 supplier of manufatured parts. Let me fill you in on a little secrect, those parts that are made here to assemble the vehicles that are manufactured here in the USA... are done so on foriegn MACHINES!
Yep, Hepburn, Cincinatti Milacron and Van Dorn machines that were the icon for decades are being replaced with Kraus Mafii, Niigata, and Toshiba. Wake up, we simply can not compete and we are to blame.
BUT any Company that is on the brink of failure and the Employees pitch in to turn it around to a world wide Competitor has my utmost respect... and if it is one that is based here all the better!! Kudos to The Company who ventures out and doesn't rest on their morals / heratige / niche. Broad step for them and I hope it pays off.
Oh and spell check is for pussies
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
Thats the great part... How much money do you think HD puts into the US economy compared to the amount they put into the economies of the lowest bidder foreign country? Seeing as 75% or more of the parts in most new Harleys are made oversees and pretty much all of the "culture" accessories are as well. America first my ass.
