opinions on first bike sold

Ok, so I need some opinions... A year ago, I sold the first bike I built, and basically broke even on it... I think most of the time that's what happens, unfortunately it needed tuning and I paid $650 to the buyer to have it tuned, then I get an email today that the tank is leaking... I built the tank almost 2 years ago now, and it was before I started selling tanks so I don't think I used the materials I do now, I can't afford to keep losing money on the bike, and at the same time, I don't want someone out there badmouthing me, so I want to make it right... ideas? suggestions? I don't want to have to pick up a part time job so I can afford to have sold it

If you sold it "As Is' then you shouldn't have to put a dime towards it. Motorcycles aren't like cars and carry 100,000mi warranties. Things happen after you sell stuff that isn't your fault and you have no responsibility. If you do feel obligated to fix it then take the tank and repair it yourself to save a few dollars towards repair or if your making those tanks then offer the customer a discount on a new one but don't give it away or pay for repainting. Don't worry about them mud slinging, everyone in the cafe circle knows that you put out quality products.

The rear end on a truck I sold to a guy went out a week after I sold it (there was no warning of this but the truck did have 375,000mi on the original rear) and he came after me lawyers and all and I was found not responsible since I sold it "As Is" and was unaware that the rear end had a problem and told him that I had replaced the whole drive train except the rear end.

sounds fair... I don't mind making him a new tank though... as the seat and everything else fit to it, and that was the first tank I made using a mold so I'm pretty sure I wasn't using the same process I'm using now, I didn't originally build the bike to sell, just wound up selling it to try to recover some of the cost involved

Make the new tank but make him absorb the cost of materials. That way he has some investment in it.

Or have him give you a core. The tank currently on the bike for a new one that you'll make.

I agree, make a take for cost. It seems like youve been good to the guy, and all, but you cant let people take advantage. I really cant see how he could bad mouth you when you offer to make him a new tank if he just pays for materials..

between being helpful and courteous here, and the fact you actually put this to a bit of a vote, i've got a lot of respect for the way you do things.

to answer your question... if you can repair it, do that for free, if you need to make a new one, do the exchange idea.
you can't let him take you for a ride in order to save your reputation. as mentioned, you're not a major auto manufacturer with unlimited warranties. you're a craftsman, and these things happen... all anyone could expect is a fair compromise.

did you sell it as a business or privately?


private sales in MI are caveat emptor....


private sales are final

rockcitycafe said:

Ok, so I need some opinions... A year ago, I sold the first bike I built, and basically broke even on it... I think most of the time that's what happens, unfortunately it needed tuning and I paid $650 to the buyer to have it tuned, then I get an email today that the tank is leaking... I built the tank almost 2 years ago now, and it was before I started selling tanks so I don't think I used the materials I do now, I can't afford to keep losing money on the bike, and at the same time, I don't want someone out there badmouthing me, so I want to make it right... ideas? suggestions? I don't want to have to pick up a part time job so I can afford to have sold it

Click to expand...

I too worry about this from time to time. This is also the reason I turn away inquiries to build complete bikes. These old girls are fickle, and unless you really know what you're going, there is going to be an ongoing expense.

If I sold a bike under the MotoFiaccone name and one of my products became defective, I would suck it up and build him a new one. I would make sure he understands this is outside the scope of normal business practice and future consideration may not be possible. As good as your work is, you're still selling you name. Maintaining that will be a continued challenge.

Knowing you the way I do, I think you knew the right answer prior to posting to posting the question.

--Chris

Hey - when you buy a new $40,000 car from BMW or anybody else, you're going to get a 3-4 year limited warranty with more terms and conditions than you can point a stick at.

I think all that's needed are managed expectations. If I was putting a bike together for someone, it would be sold as-is with no warranty. You want to do this for your own protection. What happens if the brakes fail on one of these bikes because the purchaser didn't maintain it or there was a mechanical failure. Do you want their insurance company lawyers crawling up your ass? Especially with things like fibreglass tanks - those things aren't legal for road-use as far as I know. You want to sell these things as off-road use only, as-is, non DOT etc. etc.

Tim said:

Hey - when you buy a new $40,000 car from BMW or anybody else, you're going to get a 3-4 year limited warranty with more terms and conditions than you can point a stick at.

I think all that's needed are managed expectations. If I was putting a bike together for someone, it would be sold as-is with no warranty. You want to do this for your own protection. What happens if the brakes fail on one of these bikes because the purchaser didn't maintain it or there was a mechanical failure. Do you want their insurance company lawyers crawling up your ass? Especially with things like fibreglass tanks - those things aren't legal for road-use as far as I know. You want to sell these things as off-road use only, as-is, non DOT etc. etc.

Click to expand...

ya, in the future I think you definitely need to protect yourself very well in the for sale ad. That being said, you still should work with someone (only to a point of course) to ensure they are satisfied, its part of taking pride in your work I think.

I've been thinking about this as well...

In my mind you have to do right by the customer but you have you be fiscally responsible to yourself as well. In the end, if you keep fixing stuff for free your going to go broke and your deliverables and brand will ultimately become tarnished as a result of it. It's just like "Big Business" IMO. You cannot survive on low margins especially in bespoke work areas such as custom fab tanks, frames, etc.. If you sell 1 million dollars at 1 point, it's still 1 point of profit. Get my drift?

By eating those after sale costs you erode those margins that allow you to do things like grow your business, offer new products, partner with other companies etc..which in the end provide more value for your clients and business counterparts in the same industry. What we all need to strive for as both providers and consumers.

Like has been said, it's all about expectations. We've done some computations here on break-fix maint costs amortized out over the course of 6-12-18-24 month periods. In that, when we sell a bike that's been built by hand we will be offering an upfront additional cost warranty that will cover for those time-frames. At that point the onus is on the customer and not us. Now, with this situation you obviously cannot do that.. I get that. But this guy has to be real about it and as your reputation precedes you I'm sure you've done right by him. Be honest with him, I'm sure he'll appreciate it and understand. I would.

If it were me.. I'd say "Jim, I sold you this bike several years ago as is and I feel as though I've gone above and beyond the call of duty in that time frame to satisfy your needs as an important client. In the end though, it's a vintage custom bike. There are going to be issues. At this juncture, I'll refurbish your existing tank at the cost of materials plus labor discounted 50% or, I'll offer you a set discount on a completely new tank. Going forward though we need to be of the same line of understand that I cannot continue to warranty your bike unless you purchase some sort of post warranty support which we could discuss. Please do try to understand this from my perspective and let me know what your thoughts are."

Hope this helps man..

J

Be careful offering extended warranties or insurances. Make sure they aren't just through you but are underwritten by an actual insurance company like WACA or NEW who underwrite other insurances from big companies like Best Buy, Staples and Office Depot so if you do go out of business (which I hope never happens, love your stuff) the customer is still covered and you don't have to pay for repairs in the future. There aren't many motorcycle parts that are covered under any kind of warranty anyway.

Lonely Wolf...you are wise.

This is exactly the route I'm looking at.

Ask yourself three questions.

1 - Who is responsible for the fault?

2 - What would i want if i was his / her current situation?

3 - What would be a COMMON SENSE solution to the problem that would create a win / win for everyone?

In general if you take care of your customers they will take care of you. There is the 1% who will take advantage of your kindness and you have to be aware of those. However, even some of the most high maintenance, frustrating customers turn out to be your biggest apostles when all the dust settles.

joe (10 years of retail management)

i'm surprised this thread keeps getting bumped up. the issue is actually all taken care of, I'm building him a new tank using the materials I use now, instead of the materials i used on that one (the first tank i made that way - before i started selling them). i hate it when things go wrong, so i feel that i'm more than obligated to fix that issue which was clearly due to me not knowing as much about building tanks as i do now... chalk it up to a learning curve, and we'll never not make mistakes, the trick is not making the same ones again and fixing the ones we made before...

Its not that I'm wise. I've just been a retail sales/store manager for 7 years. Customer satisfaction is #1 but you need to keep in mind that you are in business to make money and anything that is going to cut into your net profit needs to be seriously considered. If they have only/are only going to buy a few parts then it may not be as easy to absorb repair costs as it is for a commercial client that buys $10,000 in parts every month. Rockcity, I've only bought a seat from you and you sent me a t-shirt for no reason. That shows how above and beyond you are willing to go to spread a good rep about yourself and I understand why you are going to fix it. I know that because of how you've even treated me, I'm going to buy all the parts that I need and you supply from you. Plus anyone that asks where I get my stuff I am going to send them your way. Huge props for customer satisfaction.

i think the t was for sending a couple pics of the seat on the bike, which helps when people ask if I have pics of a seat on x,y,or z bike... but glad you like the shirt anyway

I'll send you more pics when I get done with the total build that it is going through right now,