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Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Engines => Topic started by: XS750AU on Jun 14, 2016, 08:19:44

Title: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jun 14, 2016, 08:19:44
Hi
Recently I have finished rebuilding the engine in my XS750-2D. Did not have to do too much, but I did go to 1st oversize pistons using scheuerlein pistons. Ironic that it is easier to get German pistons to fit a jap bike! Plus is was skipping second gear, which is not unusual for this bike. It turned out that the PO had put the circlip with the wrong face against the gear and the circlip had been pushed out of its seat while remaining on the shaft. That bike is now on the road and has been rejetted for pods. The mains went from 130 to 140 and the pilot jet went from 42.5 to 45. All running well now. During this process I acquired another XS750SE that was a wreck and in pieces for spare parts. Fortunately the PO did not make much effort to get decent photos and I picked up for less than AU$100.

The engine moved for less than a revolution on the kick starter and then stopped rotating. The PO had started to pull the engine down but got cold feet at breaking the cam chain, and had left it for years with the plugs out and the cam cover off. When I bought it, it was encrusted in mm of dirt and crap, so I am hoping that there is not too much wrong inside. When I have inspected the cam journals, the bearing surfaces were better than my other bike and I don't think the generator cover had ever been removed before. As this bike was not complete and at some stage had had a side car fitted I felt it was a clean slate that I could modify to my hearts content!

On Ebay there was a 896 big bore kit for under $200 which is a third of the cost of new German 750 pistons, the catch being that 750 cylinders cannot be bored out from 68mm to 74.5mm, you must use 850 cylinders. I have searched for over a year globally to find a set of 850 cylinders, seems like there are a lot more 750's around than 850's! Finally I tracked down a set of 850 cylinders out of North Queensland - same day I ordered the 896 piston and head gasket kit.

The head on the XS750SE was the same as the head (including cams) on the XS850 so I do not have to change anything on the head. The carbies are Mikuni 34mm series II which I believe will be OK. The other benefit of fitting the big bore kit is that the compression ratio will immediately change from the 750's 8.5:1 to the 896 having 10:1, and that should be OK.

The drive line on the XS750 was totally over engineered and is the same as used on the XS1100 so it will be able to cope with the considerable increase in HP and torque.

I am hoping that there is someone else on the forum that has completed this conversion before me and confirm if I have missed anything before I start building?

I am going to use pod filters and have a triumph 955 header that I am going to use for a very free flowing 3 into 1 exhaust. If the stand main jet is 130, any idea as to what main I should start with, I am thinking it is going to be 150+? On the primary jet side it would go from the 42.5 to 47.5? Would the primary air vent also need increasing?

Thanks for any help.

Regards
Tim


Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jun 15, 2016, 07:40:23
Ok looks like I need to work on attaching photos
The first photos are of the XS750-2D as advertised and now - nothing major but needs a final paint job.
The next photos are of the XS750SE as advertised (that why I was the only bidder) and at home, the final photo as of today, just getting parts together!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Jun 15, 2016, 09:12:37
Working on my own XS750 I'll be watching this thread ;)

Psy

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jun 16, 2016, 13:03:39
As i said to another guy on here - ditch the old rotten stock carbs and get yourself some triumph carbs. If youre going through all that work its nice to have some new, easily adjusted and maintained items on there. I did and im thankful! Also i built an engine with the 896cc cruzinimage pistons last winter, and it seems to be running fine.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: focusinprogress on Jun 16, 2016, 14:25:01
I just picked up my 6th yamaha triple. this one has no papers and the motor is locked.....maybe it's time I start putting together a big bore kit....I think I may have a set of 850 cylinders knocking around.....hmmm
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jun 18, 2016, 05:01:43
Cylinders and pistons have been dropped off at the machine shop. As you can see in the photo the pistons look OK, they are not in the same league as the Scheuerlein pistons out of Germany that went into the XS750-2D, but they should be fine. The cylinders look a little rough on the outside but all mating surfaces are in good condition.

Spent a couple of hours in the shed making up some tooling to form a flange on my headers. I have a triumph 1050 Street triple header which has a nice flat junction where all three header pipes meet, but the couplings onto the head are not compatible. Pipe diameter is also same as the XS at 38mm so I have just bought some 90 degree 38mm 304SS bends to solve the problem. In the photo you can see the first practice run. I will use the practice parts as the little clamp brackets that clamp the headers against the head. The split is along the tube seam, on the headers I will get my TIG welding mate to spot them on the inside before I flare them and see if that helps.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Jun 18, 2016, 08:39:39
Nice!  Psy

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 17, 2016, 09:28:01
The cylinders came back from being bored out to 74.5 that only leaves 1.8mm walls on the barrels! There was some variation on the piston diameters, only microns but it means the pistons need to go in the assigned cylinders.

A bit of distraction on the weekend as I finally sorted out the jets and air leaks on the 750's carbies. The following video is the first run with it running well. The road I was on was badly affected by a storm during the week with a lot of debris, so I could not go too hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXoosev1jwA

Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 17, 2016, 21:09:38
The cylinders came back from being bored out to 74.5 that only leaves 1.8mm walls on the barrels! There was some variation on the piston diameters, only microns but it means the pistons need to go in the assigned cylinders.

A bit of distraction on the weekend as I finally sorted out the jets and air leaks on the 750's carbies. The following video is the first run with it running well. The road I was on was badly affected by a storm during the week with a lot of debris, so I could not go too hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXoosev1jwA

Cheers
Tim
Sorry for the technical hitch!
Video is now "public".

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 18, 2016, 08:12:15
The cylinder is back after boring, and as in the photo the pistons had a few microns of variation. Not enough for any problems, 2 pistons are interchangeable and one, 0.008mm larger must stay in #1 position. I went back onto the Scheuerlein website as their pistons were close to perfect for the 750, to see if they sold big bore kits. And they do, BUT they cost Euro400 and are the same big bore kit that I bought on Ebay for AU$200 delivered. Have a look at the photos - they are out of the same tools!!! Scheuerlein state they are sourced out of Japan - but I cannot see how they justify the extra AU$380!!!

I have the gasket kit, so in theory I have all I need to rebuild the engine unless I find some surprises.http://www.dotheton.com/forum/Smileys/default/tongue.gif Made up an engine stand on the weekend to make it a bit easier. This is the second XS triple rebuild I have done , and the 3rd time to strip one down. On the 750, one of the journal studs striped out when I was taking it to final torquehttp://www.dotheton.com/forum/Smileys/default/angry.gif. One hellicoil and a day and it was fixed ;D.

Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jul 18, 2016, 10:59:53
Following along!might have an XS 750 soon too :-)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 18, 2016, 12:02:05
Did the same thing and with the right cams i think you will enjoy the power bump!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 19, 2016, 03:41:11
Did the same thing and with the right cams i think you will enjoy the power bump!
Hi David
Thanks for the reply. Can you give a bit more detail on the cams?
Thanks
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 19, 2016, 04:01:17
Hi David
Thanks for the reply. Can you give a bit more detail on the cams?
Thanks
Tim

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I dont really have great detail to give you but the earlier cams (77-78)are supposed to breathe a bit better. Web cams have a few profiles as well, to be welded on cores.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 20, 2016, 07:30:07
Hi Dave
What year model did you use as your base for the 896?
After your info on the cams I started to dig a bit deeper and had a Doh! moment. I had thought that all XS750's had the 8.5 compression ratio which when using the 896 kit would boost the compression to 10.5 which is not too radical. BUT the XS750E & SE which I am using had a compression ratio of 9.5 which means with the 896 kit it will be end up being 11.4, which is a bit higher than I would have liked. Anyone out there got an opinion on a 11.4 compression ratio on an air cooled 1978 engine???http://www.dotheton.com/forum/Smileys/default/huh.gif.

On the cams the XS750E appears to have the final design and the highest performance so that looks OK. Plus it keeps the valves open longer so I guess the actual compression will be a little less due to the swept volume with closed compression is slightly lower!!! The info I could find was per the attached image for the D and 2D and the following text for the E.

"Therefore the engine modifications were kept subtle and affect only the top end of the engine. For example the compression ratio has been upped from 8.5:1 to 9.5:1, which means it now requires premium fuel (at least 90.5 octane rating). The actual shape of the combustion chambers has also been altered and they now actually displace fewer cc’s than earlier XSs. Cam profile has been altered slightly, retaining the same lift but now having sportier intake timing. And intake breathing has been further increased by changing the venturi shape in the carbs (they’re still 34mm in size), modifying the main jets and adding on a, larger, better breathing air box.".

Guess if there are a couple of options on compression, think I will definitively use 2 cylinder base gaskets. If that is not enough there is always the option to swap heads with my other XS750-2D which has the 8.5 compression. That way I would boost the 750 to 9.5 and the 896 would end up at 10.5 (last option).
Cheers
Tim

Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 22, 2016, 06:27:30
Since i built mine from scrap im not really sure what bike my head came from, but the starter wont turn the engine unless hot so either the starter needs a good cleaning or i got very high comp!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jul 22, 2016, 10:44:15
Hey guys!

sorry for hijacking your post but I shortly before buying two complete XS750 (stock bikes).
is there any way to check for the famous 2nd gear jumping without riding the bike?
both bikes won´t start cuz they were sitting for years,need carb cleaning et cetera...

if the second gear issue will arise is it hard to fix?i guess it means tearing the motor down to the gears....?

thanks in advance and sorry once again?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 22, 2016, 13:38:14
Hey guys!

sorry for hijacking your post but I shortly before buying two complete XS750 (stock bikes).
is there any way to check for the famous 2nd gear jumping without riding the bike?
both bikes won´t start cuz they were sitting for years,need carb cleaning et cetera...

if the second gear issue will arise is it hard to fix?i guess it means tearing the motor down to the gears....?

thanks in advance and sorry once again?
Its not hard to fix, go to yamaha-triples.org for a few different methods. Only way to see if it slips is under load unfortunately.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jul 22, 2016, 13:42:46
Thanks datadavid!
Youre xs project is awesome...

I guess I will need to look far better carbs too,got the mikunis 2's on it...but i heard that these suck hard.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 22, 2016, 16:49:03
Awesome project man.  Looking forward to seeing your progress :)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 23, 2016, 08:24:47
Hi Dave
Starter are a world of their own!! On my 750 the electric turns it over easily when cold, but when hot not a chance, have to kick it!

Ryan - the 2nd gear on my 750 started popping out so that was the final straw which made me rebuild the engine. Turned out the only problem with second was that the PO had used an old circlip and had put the radius edge facing out. So the gear had pushed the circlip out of its seat and down the shaft so the gear could not engage properly!! So try to get the end cover off and have a look, there are some other fixes you can do once you get the cover off. Check out the triples site.
Mikuni series 2 carbies are not too bad, easy to get jets and parts. Once I got new mounting rubbers and throttle spindle seals they are working beautifully on the 750. Cleaning and seals are much cheaper than any alternative carbies.

Today was in the bush on the Husaberg FE550, that bike really does go. Almost as much Hp(62) as the XS and weighs less than than half @ 105. So no progress on the 896 build this weekend!!
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 23, 2016, 09:59:14
Hi Dave
Starter are a world of their own!! On my 750 the electric turns it over easily when cold, but when hot not a chance, have to kick it!

Ryan - the 2nd gear on my 750 started popping out so that was the final straw which made me rebuild the engine. Turned out the only problem with second was that the PO had used an old circlip and had put the radius edge facing out. So the gear had pushed the circlip out of its seat and down the shaft so the gear could not engage properly!! So try to get the end cover off and have a look, there are some other fixes you can do once you get the cover off. Check out the triples site.
Mikuni series 2 carbies are not too bad, easy to get jets and parts. Once I got new mounting rubbers and throttle spindle seals they are working beautifully on the 750. Cleaning and seals are much cheaper than any alternative carbies.

Today was in the bush on the Husaberg FE550, that bike really does go. Almost as much Hp(62) as the XS and weighs less than than half @ 105. So no progress on the 896 build this weekend!!
Cheers
Tim
Mine wont turn when cold, but will start the bike when hot! Had the same thing on the last one, starter just needed a good cleaning..
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 31, 2016, 02:26:26
Productive day. Brought the engine back to my shed and stripped it down. As I said earlier the PO had started and thankfully lost interest, but he had left it open. The reason it would not turn over was due to the cam timing being completely out, causing a valve & piston clash  :o. No damage done  ;D. The crowns of the pistons had a layer of crud on them, but it had not gone beyond the compression ring. What is clear is that this engine has not done much work, if you look on the cylinder you can still see the original hone marks ;D ;D ;D.
It took about an hour to pull it down and four hours cleaning. The original owner had bought it for speedway and there was plenty of dirt built up on the outside to get off. I used a wire brush by hand so as no to ruin the silver engine paint. Not all perfect though as there was a thin layer of gunk in the bottom of the sump, and the carbies had some dusty build up in them. I guess the original owner did not have a great air cleaner for his speedway racing. The carbies must have blocked up before he did any internal damage to the engine.
The head on this engine is definitely the high compression version. Have a look at the photo and you can see the complicated machining to create 2 dome areas. I could not save the base gasket off the 750 cylinders so I need to get another one before reassembly the 896 so I can lower the compression a little from the 11.4 calculated.
Quick video of Saturdays work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkRFqIKB5ls

Photos of bits - the gudgeon  pins in the pistons look like they have been hot especially the centre one.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 01, 2016, 03:58:52
Mine runs just fine with big bore and hi comp 😊 glad me and the machinist decided not to skim the cylinders at all! It will run like hell even on standard pump gas, only problem is starter engine cant turn it anymore 😆 not too hard to kick though.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 01, 2016, 04:09:31


Thanks datadavid!
Youre xs project is awesome...

I guess I will need to look far better carbs too,got the mikunis 2's on it...but i heard that these suck hard.

Thank You! :) The mikunis dont suck at all, they are just old. And if they have been sitting chances are all seals have been dry rotted. If they are low mileage carbs with no mechanical damage or wear they are well worth repairing. Mine were not! Triumph carbs were just the cheapest option + its nice when you calibrate them and they Stay calibrated! :D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Aug 01, 2016, 07:22:42

Thank You! :) The mikunis dont suck at all, they are just old. And if they have been sitting chances are all seals have been dry rotted. If they are low mileage carbs with no mechanical damage or wear they are well worth repairing. Mine were not! Triumph carbs were just the cheapest option + its nice when you calibrate them and they Stay calibrated! :D

Lets see what they do when I mount them on the old bastard :-) may i ask you what type of triumph carbs you installed (searched for t900 carbs but they are all 4 cylinder banks...)

thanks!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 01, 2016, 07:23:35
Yes first gen new triumphs were all fours. Look for trident, legend or thunderbird carbs.
Preferrably not the first mikuni carbs as they wore out needles and needle jets. Keihins are superior. You can achieve stoichiometric mix across the range, they burn so clean you can run catalytic converters on these bikes..
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Aug 01, 2016, 07:25:23
Yes first gen new triumphs were all fours. Look for trident, legend or thunderbird carbs.

thank you!are there any 3 cylinder flatslides models :-)?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 01, 2016, 07:29:09
thank you!are there any 3 cylinder flatslides models :-)?
My slides are flat! But I guess you mean proper mechanical flatslides? Nope, dont think so. It would probably cost you as much to get three of those as if you would install a daytona Fuel injection, not to mention installing and tuning ☺
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 05, 2016, 09:01:47
Beautiful morning today, so I took the XS750 to work. Great start to the day, I love that exhaust note, jetting seems pretty close, no coughs, flat spots or backfires!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw1mt2daakA

It is pushing a bit of oil out of the case breather - any ideas anyone?

Was planning to valve stem seals and lap the valves this weekend on the 896 but I might have to look at the breather issue on the 750. Going in the "Distinguished Gentlemen's ride" in September so better off fixing it now.
Cheers Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 05, 2016, 13:27:13
Beautiful morning today, so I took the XS750 to work. Great start to the day, I love that exhaust note, jetting seems pretty close, no coughs, flat spots or backfires!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw1mt2daakA

It is pushing a bit of oil out of the case breather - any ideas anyone?

Was planning to valve stem seals and lap the valves this weekend on the 896 but I might have to look at the breather issue on the 750. Going in the "Distinguished Gentlemen's ride" in September so better off fixing it now.
Cheers Tim
If its like streams of oil you must have serious blow by?
Take the breather lid off and check for a yellowish plastic thingy, its an oil mist separator. Someone might have removed it to "aid breathing.."
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 06, 2016, 04:08:09
Q.E.D.
No oil mist separator thingy!!! The 896 engine has one, so I took the measurements off it and turned one up in the lathe using nylon stock.
With the engine going there was absolutely no blow by, but the filter I have on the end of the breather tube was soaked with oil. Not sure if at full noise it was just shooting oil up and out without the the oil mist separator??? Just checked the manual and the schematic does not show one in the 2D engine - maybe they were introduced for the E???
The oil mist separator is in and we will see if that fixes the issue.
Spent the afternoon striping the head down, so I can lap the valves in and fit new stem seals (hopefully tomorrow).

Photos of the oil mist separator.

Cheers Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 08, 2016, 06:41:12
Had a few domestic jobs to do on Sunday, so progress was a bit limited.
Pulled the forks out, as the tubes need to be rechromed and then cleaned up the head and lapped the valves in, ready for reassembly.
Cheers Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 12, 2016, 09:01:07
Pushed the boundaries with my beloved to night and rejetted the carbies on the kitchen table.
Standard XS750 is 130 mains and 42.5 pilots
My XS750 with pods and perforated baffles is running 140 mains and 45 pilots
For the XS896 I am starting with 165 mains and 47.5 pilots

You will see in the photos that the mains that were in the carbies were the tall hex type. That is the same type I bought in the new sizes, but after fitting them I am not sure that they are correct as they don't screw down fully. The last photo shows the standard round Mikuni jets (137.5 which is too small) but it screws down full. Suspect the PO bought the wrong jets.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 12, 2016, 09:18:42
The new are for Keihin crabs
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: teazer on Aug 12, 2016, 11:03:41
I am pretty sure that those carbs use Large round main jets which have a different thread and are not sized the same way as large hex jets.  What needle jets are in those carbs?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 12, 2016, 20:43:37
Thanks for the replies - yes they appear to be wrong. The 165s are bound to be the wrong final size so next time I will get the large round design. Interesting though I bought the tall hex jets from Mikuni OZ, so there must be Mikunis out there that use them!!!!

Next question - in the generic "Engine gasket kits" there are six small black O rings in a sealed bag with the valve guide seals and the cylinder O rings (refer photo). It was the same when I rebuild the XS750, I cannot work out where these 6 small black O rings are meant to go. I left them out of the 750 and it is running fine. Anyone know???
Thanks
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 12, 2016, 20:55:53
I think those are for the head bolts.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: teazer on Aug 12, 2016, 22:42:23
Most round slide (VM series carbs use Large Hex jets.  Large hex jets are numbered to represent flow rates at 30cm of pressure IIRC.  Large round jets are measured in mm of diameter, so a 150 is 1.5mm diameter.

In simple terms double the size of a hex jet from say 90 to 180 and it doubles the flow, but double the size of a round jet and flow increases by a factor of 4, so a 180 round flows 4 times as much as a 90 in a large round.  There are tables on teh web that show a pretty close correlation for equivalent sized jets.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 12, 2016, 22:46:45
Found where the black O rings go = under the valve guides.
Did not remove the valve guides, so they will not be used.

Thanks for the explanation on the jet sizing. It will be back to the round jets.
Thanks
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 13, 2016, 03:21:08
Reassembled the head today. New valve stem seals were the only new parts. All straight forward stuff, final timing of cams when the cam chain goes in later on.
Then I just continued to clean grim and muck from all the bolt heads and other crevices. In some ways the oil and dirt appear to have preserved the painted covers, as it is cleaning up pretty well.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 13, 2016, 08:38:03
Just wondering if you did a valve clearance feel before buttoning things up?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 14, 2016, 00:26:22
Hi Tune-A-Fish
After torquing the journals down the clearances are 0.16mm on the inlet and 0.22mm on the exhaust. So there is no need to play with shims at this point.
Thanks for reminding me.
Regards
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 14, 2016, 08:55:44
Hmmm... Seems fat for the 896 bore, if you took notes for each valve, you might need to readjust if it's noisy or boggy off idle, that big bore will be hungry for air and tighter multiplies not just open more but longer.

I can tell you know all this crap, just offering some friendly thought  :o
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 14, 2016, 19:29:49
Hmmm... Seems fat for the 896 bore, if you took notes for each valve, you might need to readjust if it's noisy or boggy off idle, that big bore will be hungry for air and tighter multiplies not just open more but longer.

I can tell you know all this crap, just offering some friendly thought  :o
Thanks for the info. The factory limit for the inlet is 0.16mm which is where we are now. The valves are going to grow as they heat up in operation and close the gap. So  how far can you close it up with the shims before you have gone too far?
The exhaust valves will get hotter, hense their min clearance is 0.21 and we are currently at 0.22. The 896 is going to run hotter, higher compresion and the basic fact that more power = more heat.
Really interested to get you experience on the true minimum clearances. I will admit to being conservative.
Thanks
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 14, 2016, 19:54:54
Unfortunately, I don't know what the pistons are and what relief if any is cut in them. I may well be wrong, just seems loose to me.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 15, 2016, 01:46:05
My valves, new in a head with new guides and 3 axis seat grind,  clearances actually grew slightly the first few hundred miles. Only reason i can come up with is carbon from ring seating collecting on the valve seats?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 15, 2016, 01:48:06
Point is, run it for a while then the routine stuff, retorqueing head, camchain tension, valve clearance. After the first check they seldom change.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 15, 2016, 08:16:18
Most round slide (VM series carbs use Large Hex jets.  Large hex jets are numbered to represent flow rates at 30cm of pressure IIRC.  Large round jets are measured in mm of diameter, so a 150 is 1.5mm diameter.

In simple terms double the size of a hex jet from say 90 to 180 and it doubles the flow, but double the size of a round jet and flow increases by a factor of 4, so a 180 round flows 4 times as much as a 90 in a large round.  There are tables on teh web that show a pretty close correlation for equivalent sized jets.

Thanks for the heads up. I found that comparison chart and as you said a huge difference in flows (refer attached). The 130 AMAL design that were in it are actually the equivalent to about a 105 round mikuni (reverse). So the PO actually leaned out the carbi significantly. The 160 AMAL that I bought are equivalent to a 120 round mikuni!!!!!! It is never a mistake, if you learn without doing damage - Thank you Teazer.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 15, 2016, 08:27:45
Point is, run it for a while then the routine stuff, retorqueing head, camchain tension, valve clearance. After the first check they seldom change.
I have not done as much work on the head as you Dave, just a bit of basic maintenance. Totally agree with you though, run it a see how it goes. Should be OK at lower RPM and run out of puff towards redline.
The exhaust valves had a heap of carbon build up on the seats and valve crown, the piston gudgeon pins were distinctly blue which indicates to me that it has been running bloody hot. With the jetting being totally lean (per previous post) it looks like it was running bloody hot with no power - no wonder it did not see much speedway action!!
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 15, 2016, 09:03:18
My valves, new in a head with new guides and 3 axis seat grind,  clearances actually grew slightly the first few hundred miles. Only reason i can come up with is carbon from ring seating collecting on the valve seats?

Not likely David. I think you just experienced valve train relax after rebuild. all the parts dont fully seat like keepers and spring base/retainers until a good hot run.

When my son switched from two stroke race bikes to 4 it took me a while to learn that you need to go a shim tight after a take down or it would surly be loose the first hot lap. But hey, we only got a few races out of a top end back then and now a head will last almost a season so  :-\

Back to this tho... I'd run it and see how it goes, cant break it loose and half the fun of cycles is the wrench time me thinks  ::)

Dig the jet cutaway will help splain it to others  :P
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 15, 2016, 10:10:55
Not likely David. I think you just experienced valve train relax after rebuild. all the parts dont fully seat like keepers and spring base/retainers until a good hot run.

When my son switched from two stroke race bikes to 4 it took me a while to learn that you need to go a shim tight after a take down or it would surly be loose the first hot lap. But hey, we only got a few races out of a top end back then and now a head will last almost a season so  :-\

Back to this tho... I'd run it and see how it goes, cant break it loose and half the fun of cycles is the wrench time me thinks  ::)

Dig the jet cutaway will help splain it to others
That makes a lot more sense. Combustion chambers are still clean as a whistle..
Also its a mystery to me that people even dare to mess with the jetting, even putting amal jets in japanese carbs. Jeez.. cool to see that cross refence chart though!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 16, 2016, 06:36:56
Hmmm... Seems fat for the 896 bore, if you took notes for each valve, you might need to readjust if it's noisy or boggy off idle, that big bore will be hungry for air and tighter multiplies not just open more but longer.

I can tell you know all this crap, just offering some friendly thought  :o

Hi Tune -A-Fish
I now understand where you are coming from. During lunch I looked up the factory spec for valve clearance on the GS1000 and Z900 (supposedly the GS engine was based on the Z engine design), both air cooled 2 valve Jap engines from the same vintage as the XS750. The Z & GS share the same spec of 0.05mm to 0.10mm, as you said a hell of a lot smaller clearance.
As the basic valve train design is essentially the same, it could be fair enough to say that at the cam end there wouldn't be a problem to cut the clearance down towards 0.05mm. But that would mean that the valve crown would project 0.15mm further into the combustion chamber, and stay open longer. Hence your comment about piston relief.
To check the valve to piston clearance is simple enough, using play doe and seeing what thickness it squishes down to after an exhaust cycle. Does anyone have a guide as to what clearance is RELIABLE and what is a minimum????
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 16, 2016, 07:31:23
It would not be very good engine design if piston-valve clearance is less than .10mm, there should be a little extra in case of valve float i guess. Also people have skimmed 0.5-1.0mm off the cylinders without issues, so there should be some air left there.. of course playdoh is the way to go when in doubt.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 16, 2016, 07:32:53
I go with .10 intake and .15 exhaust. No need to mess about with .01 up or down on these old things..
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 16, 2016, 08:48:10
I was going to suggest squish, but it requires a tear down... I use silly puddy it releases with the least amount of distortion toys R us is the last place I could find it.

I also might suggest for anyone doing a big bore, you can do a 3 angle grind/cut just a hair deep in the seat and clearance port the head around the valve and seat, it will increase cc a tiny bit loosing some comp not much and not really a bad thing, many heads have a lot of material you can trim away and allow more air or better air flow into the valve... it's kinda like Draino for heads you get that hair out and the swirl comes back  ;)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: teazer on Aug 16, 2016, 12:21:58
I was going to suggest squish, but it requires a tear down... I use silly puddy it releases with the least amount of distortion toys R us is the last place I could find it.

I also might suggest for anyone doing a big bore, you can do a 3 angle grind/cut just a hair deep in the seat and clearance port the head around the valve and seat, it will increase cc a tiny bit loosing some comp not much and not really a bad thing, many heads have a lot of material you can trim away and allow more air or better air flow into the valve... it's kinda like Draino for heads you get that hair out and the swirl comes back  ;)

That is exactly right.  On our Honda race motors we deck the head and block by "quite a lot" and there is never enough piston to valve clearance.  I like to pull the valves back into the head slightly and create a nice radius blend.  People will tell you that pockets the valve and hurts flow but that's not what we find.

Sometimes you have to deepen the pocket in the piston as well.  All it takes is time and lots of build and strip and measure sessions to get it right. Can't afford to go too small on clearance there or else heads will toll - off the valves that is...
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 16, 2016, 12:38:35
Term is "deck height" squish, essential for stroker rods and valve clearance, I wish I was better schooled but a guy I once drank too much with (makes a hellof uh 3 AM cake) told me some of his secrets... a 3 angle with a radius cut at the bottom is nice if you can get some air time on a Serdi and cut it all in one process with matching valve cut  ::) John Force shit right there.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 17, 2016, 04:48:28
Thats what my machining guy is for 😀 30+ years of engine work and solid rep just half an hour away. He even took the vibes out of my crank. 896cc, vibes less than a stock 750.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 17, 2016, 08:14:01
Hmmm! This build originated with a wreck bought for AU$105 as a doner for my XS750.
Now I do have an excellent engine guy 10 minutes up the road who can do the headwork. But then if I do get the engine breathing fire and pumping out 80+ hp, then the chassis and brakes will not be up to it!!! Then we can start on them and....and ........and.

Or I could just buy the bike in the photo below! If your interested, try and find the article about the engine development. The centre line of the pistons is offset by 10mm to the crank, so that on the power stroke the piston is better aligned with the big end to reduce side load on the piston and resulting friction!!!!! No way of doing that sort of detail on this build.

All good advice, and gratefully received, but I have to temper it with reality and the budget. A porting job that I can do and new shims to cut down the clearance and extend the opening time, plus a extra base gasket to lift the valves away from the piston crowns is probably where it is going to end up. Sorry to dampen the party.

Picked up a block of ally 32mm X 150mm x 200mm to make up a sandwich plate for an oil cooler. I have been watching Ebay for 2 years and the factory XS850 sandwich plates just don't come up, so it is time to make one. Mill and rotary table work to come.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 17, 2016, 08:23:03
Understood... but it was fun talking about  :P
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 17, 2016, 09:02:14
Understood... but it was fun talking about  :P

Totally agree - all good fun
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 17, 2016, 10:05:39
I still want to know if my engine puts out 80+ hp or just sounds like breathing fire 😀 time to book that dyno run i guess..
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: teazer on Aug 17, 2016, 13:02:45
Just like to clarify a couple of things if I may:

3 angle vale seats are the only way to go.  Grinding valves is so pre-WW2.  Some shops use special grinding wheels, others use cutters (Neway for example) and my preference is to find a shop with a SERDI machine.

Deck height is the distance that the piston crown is above (positive) or below (negative) the "deck ie top of the block/cylinder/barrel.   

Valve clearance should always be by the book.  Cams are ground with what are known as silencing ramps and they allow the cam to slowly and progressively lift and lower the valve.  Too much clearance means that the cam slams the valve open and then lets it drop back onto the seat causing excessive wear and possible head loss.  Too little and the valves tend to not close sufficiently when hot.

Increasing or decreasing valve clearance will tend to change valve lift and timing but barely enough to matter.  The way to get more duration and/or lift is to get cams reground by Waggot or Wade in Oz or by Megacycle in the US.

You are exactly where many people were when bikes started to improve dramatically, why improve and old dog so that it is still not as good as a less expensive modern bike. Only you can answer that.  The answer is different for all of us.  I like to improve old bikes.  I tried a VFR.  Wonderful bike that did everything perfectly sand it had no soul.  I wasn't vested in it.  It was a very efficient tool but I enjoy the planning and execution as much as the riding.   I raced Vintage bikes for ages and the ratio of wrenching to riding is outrageous for most people but that floats my boat.

No reason it has to float yours too.  Just get the thing running and ride it or get that XSR and have some fun.  Summer is just around the corner downunder.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Alex jb on Aug 17, 2016, 18:02:39
I enjoyed the chat
Thanks fellas.


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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 18, 2016, 08:20:05
Hi Teaser
Totally understand where you are coming from. I am not going racing, it is just a fun build. And I agree the spanner time is equal to road time. To be perfectly honest to most fun riding is out in the bush on my Husaberg 550.
From my point of view one of the most important features to build in reliability is fitting a decent oil cooler. My 750 has the extra high volume sump fitted, and takes 4.5L of oil per change! Makes engine removal a pain as you have drop the sump and remove the oil pump  so you can clear the frame. This was a retro factory fix for the early engines that had a bad rep for #2 big end letting go. The 850s had an oilcooler as standard. The 896 has the standard sump so it is getting a bigger oil cooler.
Might be a bit too optimistic thinking the 896 is going to be finished this Australian summer! Some domestic duties this weekend  that may limit progress. At least I have the 750 for a bit of giggle time.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 18, 2016, 11:52:09
I found that my engine hardly even reaches operating temp at normal running with deep sump and oil cooler. It goes up to 90'c and stays there no matter what. Prob means i can do a paris dakar rally!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 18, 2016, 18:49:42
Dave, think you might bottom out the suspension, and I am not sure where that sissy bar would end  up!

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: teazer on Aug 18, 2016, 18:59:39
That's not a sissy bar, it's a Paris-Dakar roll cage.   :-)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 19, 2016, 13:22:57
That's not a sissy bar, it's a Paris-Dakar roll cage.   :-)
Yup, plus i can pitch a tarp over it and go camping touareg style! 😂
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 19, 2016, 22:52:32
So does that make it an RV?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Aug 19, 2016, 23:07:34
So does that make it an RV?

my last camp was an adjustable shower curtain, an air mattress and a tarp over my pickup box... RV luxury to many I'm sure  ;D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 20, 2016, 03:31:22
I was not quite sure about the exact design of the squish plate for the oil cooler, so I spent today making up a practice part out of MDF.
Happy with the final result and it all bolts up tight! Just got to get a 3mm end mill to machine the O ring groove, then I will be set to go.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 20, 2016, 09:56:32
Now thats something! Wish i could do things like that. My adapter is slightly thinner i think. Found a retailer in sweden who still had a stock of lockhart aftermarket coolers for xs750's since the 70's. Around 150$ for a complete kit, but your way is awesomer!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: jcw on Aug 20, 2016, 15:06:31
Is there a reason you decided against the stock 850 oil cooler plate?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 21, 2016, 00:28:02
If I could have found an XS850 oil cooler, either OEM or aftermarket I would have bought it. But you have to get all the parts, including squish plate and threaded adapter socket. XS1100 and XJ650 are the correct size but have the outlets exiting out the side rather than front and foul the engine mounts. After 2 years of searching without luck, I finally gave up and bought a Ebay Chinese 7 row AN8 Universal oil cooler kit. I knew at the time that the sandwich plate in the kit would not fit, so that's why I am making a new plate. Now if you have a spare XS850 plate & socket in the shed, let me know, as they are a more elegant solution!!!
Confirmed a few more measurements today and I have been able to reduce the thickness from 32mm to 28mm. How thick are the genuine plates?
Photos are of all the features that need to be considered when making the plate.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Aug 21, 2016, 01:28:54
very Cool!

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 21, 2016, 03:49:16
http://www.roffesshop.se/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=Xs750&product_id=14770
They can still apparently be bought from sweden.
Edit: this one was even cheaper, no thermostat.  And it looks like ports are facing the right way.
http://www.roffesshop.se/index.php?route=product/product&path=71&product_id=14765
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 21, 2016, 04:27:28
Thanks Dave
The cost came to AU$390, so I passed on it and will stick with shed time!!!!!! Thank you for your help though.
Lucky day - I was able to spend most of it in the shed - next weekend is a write off!!
Morning was oil cooler and afternoon was the start of the headers. Cut all the 90o bends to length and flanged them with the tool I made and a ball peen hammer. Very happy with the result. I also made up some new header clamps out of the off cuts.
The photos are the sequence of forming.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: doc_rot on Aug 21, 2016, 13:06:51
You're doing some cool work here. I'm on board.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Aug 21, 2016, 16:48:36
watching this one.. nice work!

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 22, 2016, 07:23:26
When I was playing with the headers I checked if there was much mismatch between the exhaust port and the header ID - it is considerable. The red circle is the 34.5mm ID of the header pipe, as you can see there is a lot of metal inside that circle for the dye grinder to remove. The exhaust valve OD is 31mm and it has a stem which also eats into the flow diameter, so there is no need to take it out all the way to 34mm. I am thinking the area down the bottom of the port where is has flattened out is in for particular attention. Any body who has experience in these matters I am all ears!
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: doc_rot on Aug 23, 2016, 19:30:16
"D" shaped exhaust ports are quite common on a lot of high end machines. Are you porting this head just based on guesswork? There are a ton of factors to consider before you go making the ports bigger. I would clean up the casting marks and have the head bench flowed to see what cfm it's doing. It is not uncommon on these old Japanese bikes to have valves and ports too big, so you may be close to the sweet spot right now. By making the ports bigger you may actually reduce velocity and kill horsepower. Same thing goes for the header ID. Going bigger than the exhaust port is only going to reduce velocity as well. How you plan on riding this thing should be the main thing to consider here. Is it a bike you are going to race or scoot around town? You obviously got some chops  so I apologize if this post is redundant. I have been slowly researching for a kz750 twin hot rod build so I am watching with interest. I may build this DIY flow bench which uses a laptop and a shop vacuum
http://www.flowperformance.com/system.html
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: jcw on Aug 23, 2016, 20:34:50
+1

Touch that floor especially if u take it back to the gasket and u will kill exhaust velocity and power.

Taller higher ports flow better.

In fact, the overhang might even prevent some exhaust gas reversion.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 23, 2016, 21:51:33
Thanks Doc & jcw.
Greatly appreciate your input and help to avoid disaster. Once the material is removed there is no going back.
This bike is not going to race. I prefer to avoid built up areas and find a nice twisty country road. So the bottom line looks like leave the ports as they are and only touch any obvious casting defects (which there are none).
Thanks again for for you great help.
Cheers
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: doc_rot on Aug 24, 2016, 00:15:46
there's no saying what is optimal unless you do a flow check and do some calculations based on your cc size, cams, carbs...etc I'm just guessing that if you do porting it won't be much. You can polish the exhaust ports and clean up the intakes but leave them rough. Finding a header tube size that matches your exhaust port will help a lot as well
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 24, 2016, 04:06:29
I am nowhere near an engineer so i just gave my in and x ports a light sanding. They were a bit coarse.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 24, 2016, 07:02:00
took the plunge and bought an ultrasonic cleaner after reading a NASA research paper.
They are bloody great - petcocks before and then after  10 minutes in the ultrasonic with a little bit of dish washing detergent.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Aug 24, 2016, 09:08:42
Wow really nice!
is there a reason you stick to the stock petcocks, i heard that the membranes tend to break pretty easily?
I thought about swapping out for "normal" petcocks with on and off function on my project.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 24, 2016, 14:27:23
I just blank off the membrane part on my taps, and have Up as the off position. One less thing to worry about👍
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 24, 2016, 19:23:15
The theory wad that the leaking petcocks diluted the engine oil and contributed to the big end failures. I have been using the standard petcocks on the 750 for 5 years without problems. The current rebuild kits appear to be robust. Plus it nice to have original spec. Means one more kick for cold starts though!


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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 28, 2016, 08:01:27
No progress this weekend as I was down in the country.
I did find some inspiration though. After coming across the images of the bike below, I have decided that with my leading axle forks, it does look more dirt bike than cafe, so a scrambler it will be. Hopefully it will look half as good as this one by Bunker Brothers in Turkey.
I did put new carbi boots on an old TT250 I have down the farm for my son to ride. The new boots have transformed it from an mongrel to an absolute gem to start. Just shows how critical air leaks are on the induction side. Plus of course I had some real fun on the Husaberg - love that bike. 
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 04, 2016, 06:44:35
Not that productive this weekend.
Painted the barrels of the 896 black, as a contrast to the rest of the motor. Also retrieved all the calipers to strip down and clean. Went to strip out the swing arm from the frame. but I need to get a 28mm socket to undo the pivot nuts.
On the XS750 I made up a manometer to balance the carbies. Thought I had stuffed them up, but it turned out that even though there was fuel in my temporary tank, the fuel was not feeding through under a certain level!!!! Doh!!!!!!!
All good now. The manometer was made using $6 of aquarium air hose and one T piece plus some old sump oil (for colour!!). Very very sensitive to minor adjustments. As it is a closed loop system it is really just measuring the vacuum differential between each carbi at idle. 1/8th of a turn on the balance screw makes approximately a 200mm difference. As it is in the video that was the best I could get, the slightest movement of one balance screw gave a 100mm movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n72dNNkNX0E
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Sep 04, 2016, 08:23:55
Sweet Macgyver Mano Meter Mang  :o
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Sep 04, 2016, 16:22:52
No progress this weekend as I was down in the country.
I did find some inspiration though. After coming across the images of the bike below, I have decided that with my leading axle forks, it does look more dirt bike than cafe, so a scrambler it will be. Hopefully it will look half as good as this one by Bunker Brothers in Turkey.
I did put new carbi boots on an old TT250 I have down the farm for my son to ride. The new boots have transformed it from an mongrel to an absolute gem to start. Just shows how critical air leaks are on the induction side. Plus of course I had some real fun on the Husaberg - love that bike. 
Cheers
Tim
The leading edge forks gave me the exact same feeling. So I raised the rear end  1 1/4" with longer shocks to make the tank / frame line parallel with the ground and improve ground clearence. Mine will not be a show bike... it will see gravel roads ;)

Psy

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 04, 2016, 19:06:37
Psy
That was my thinking also. Do you have any photos to share?
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Sep 04, 2016, 22:27:56
I have a build thread here in the Projects/trackers section but for convience here is one as she sits now... have some electrical issues to sort ( no tail light but brake light works!?!?! and the blinkers are not blinking) leaking petcock, and I should change the fork oil but I havent figured out how to remove these funky fork caps. Tank will see some black highlights of some sort and the front fender needs chopped and painted. I havent gone full resto or mod because this will see action I left the plastic section of the rear mud guard for example because it will see rain and mud, battery box is staying for now. havent decided on which knobbies to order for it yet.. there is not a lot of room in the back thanks to the narrow swing arm.


Psy
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160905/9d85fa77b0a994c3a738a10bd2d490db.jpg)

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 04, 2016, 23:11:18
Thanks for the photo.
To remove the fork cap, you have to push the adjuster cap down 1 to 2 mm. There is a 1mm wire clip sitting in a groove that you then have to dig out with a small blade screw driver. Once the clip is out, the adjuster cap and spring will all come out the top. If you want to remove the damper rod, there is a cap screw down the bottom of the fork that you need to undo (good idea to undo before releasing spring tension).
They are pretty easy to work on. They do suck dirt and crap in, so it is worth the effort to pull them appart and clean.
Cheers
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Sep 05, 2016, 00:35:46
Thanks for the info.. thats what i figured.. mine are missing the caps and are pretty corroded so i cant see the retaining clip... i just need to take some time and go at them... other stuff to do for the time bieng... ill tackle them when the new front tire comes in... gotta install my gators too ;)

Psy

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 05, 2016, 22:12:05
Hi Psy
One of your earlier photos really shows the change in stance with the 365mm shocks. Almost looks like a dirt bike. One point about the Thruxton shocks, even though they are longer they only have 60mm of travel. That damper tube is bloody long! Think I will go for a set of 365mm long with 90mm of travel.
Forks arrived from straightening and chroming. It costs AU $400 to get done, what does it cost where you guys are?
Cheers
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Sep 06, 2016, 00:45:02
I realize the shocks will need to be tested out... they may not work well and need replacing eventually but for now they were an unbeatable price of free!! ;)

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 06, 2016, 01:10:38
Totally agree that they are well worth trying. At least they allow you to set things with that length of shock. The should be good quality, being OEM fitment. Are they rebuildable? You might be able to change springs and oil.
Cheers
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 11, 2016, 04:16:33
Oil cooler sandwich plate weekend. It took a few hours of turning dials but I did get most of the sandwich plate done. All I need is the M18 fine taps to arrive to finish it off. After playing around with the design I did manage to get it down to 27mm. Pretty happy with the result.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Sep 11, 2016, 07:31:00
AU that's turning out very nice!

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: xb33bsa on Sep 11, 2016, 08:26:08
love it !!
that is some first class abo engineering m8
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 18, 2016, 07:57:04
The 896 doner bike had been used for Speedway sidecar racing!!! So it needed some serious detabbing!!
With the general frame cleanup I fitted the rear hoop. One bit of an issue though. I did not realise when I bought the hoop that it was 304 stainless, WTF!!! No idea why you would want it out of stainless. Anyway the University of Youtube had the solution, and apparently you can tig weld 304 to mild steal by using a 309 filler rod. I also started on the mounting brackets for the oil cooler.
The shed is getting a bit tight with the frame for the 896 as well as the running 750!! I need to wheel the 750 out to work now.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 19, 2016, 07:20:32
It was a bit late, but I did a rego check today using the VIN number.
Turns out the bike has never been road registered. The original owner must have bought it specifically to do his speedway racing, and then it has sat in a shed for 35 years. Does not look like he did much racing either given the hone marks are in the original 750 cylinders.
The bottom line is that it has a clear record, the ADR plate for Australian compliance, so no problems to get road rego.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Alex jb on Sep 19, 2016, 16:05:18
Zero mileage logged, nice!


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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 22, 2016, 04:35:58
Unboxed a new toy today. I want to roll my guards out of aluminium so I bought a cheap English Wheel. And there is no doubt that you get wheat you pay for. The carriage which holds the anvil wheel is too wide, so the anvil will fall out! The main wheel does not have a "micro polish", it has been ground, but by what looks like 20 grit.
Nothing a couple of hours in the shed will not fix though.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Sep 22, 2016, 09:43:32
Damn, that was rough even for china! ;)
I had great use of the sheet crimper as well when i did my front guard.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 23, 2016, 08:46:38
Hi Dave
Had a look at your build, your tank and front fender came out beautifully using the wheel, hammer and crimper. Obviously the English wheel you used was much higher quality than my Chinese masterpiece. Now when you say crimper what exactly are you referring too? Couple of photos of what I think you may be referring too, but if you could confirm that would be great. Did you have to anneal the bronze with all that forming work?
Spent an hour tonight, with 600 grit paper and the wheel being rotated at 800rpm in my mill, the wheel is much smoother, pity about the 10 thou run-out. Might have to have a play with the tool & cutter grinder to see if I can true it up. Despite all the problems with the Chinese Wheel I did have a go on a bit of 1.4mm Ally and it took about 40 minutes to get the curve about right for a front fender. The edges are the issue, so I am going to have to get the shrinker/crimper.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 23, 2016, 09:46:42
Loving watching you give it a crack man.  I have always wanted to have a similar set up in my workshop and I'm sure many others do too.  Nice to follow along someone who is actually doing it  :D  Good luck! 
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: canyoncarver on Sep 23, 2016, 13:04:02
Cool stuff man.  I've been watching those same universal oil coolers for a bit.  Curious to see how yours works.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 24, 2016, 06:57:14
Took my lovely into the art gallery this morning for an exhibition of quilting - maxed out on time credits.
That meant shed time this afternoon and Gentlemen's ride tomorrow ;)
First was to true up the Chinese Wheel and make it a true English Wheel. The video is how I did it between centres on the tool and cutter grinder, running on the wheels bearings. It was 7 thou out to start with, and perfectly true after. Started with a course stone, the video shows the final cut with a 600 grit stone, then I span it in the mill and finished it with 800 grit wet&dry. Very happy with the result. Before due to the eccentricity the curve in my practice fender was not even, now it is. The improved surface finish now gives the fender a much better, gloss/polished finish. Shrank the sides in using a nylon hammer and wooden block. Donating it to the wife as a Tapas bowl, more credits ;D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2l2rjsiePw
Canyon - Yep the universal oil cooler was really my only option. The biggest issue is the width of the cooler. It is going to sit just below the top of the rocker cover and above the header, per the picture. I am tempted to cut the end mounts off and pick-up on the hose fittings. Not sure at this point??
For all those riding tomorrow have a great day. It is meant to rain overnight for us and be clear by ride time tomorrow.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Sep 24, 2016, 08:29:27
awesome stuff!

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Sep 25, 2016, 09:15:51
The crimper i used is basically the same you have in that pic, but blue! :) Yes lots of annealing, it turns into a super tough springy hardness when deformed. Hopefully a durable type of springiness that will last for eternity!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 26, 2016, 05:17:55
Dave - your spot on about the work hardening. The aluminium was basic garden variety 5005 H34 which is "half hardened" and soft to start with. I was worried is was going to be too soft and thin and easily damaged. No way, once it has been work hardened by forming with the English Wheel it is very tough, rigid and springy - bloody perfect. I did not anneal the ally.
I did use the tool and cutter grinder to true the wheel as I have it to use. You could do the same by setting it up between centres in a lathe and then holding a router or die grinder in the tool post. Very important to protect the bed from the grinding grit. This cheap English Wheel was crap quality but after a bit of tweaking the capabilities have exceeded my expectations. ;D
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Sep 26, 2016, 09:49:49
Dave - your spot on about the work hardening. The aluminium was basic garden variety 5005 H34 which is "half hardened" and soft to start with. I was worried is was going to be too soft and thin and easily damaged. No way, once it has been work hardened by forming with the English Wheel it is very tough, rigid and springy - bloody perfect. I did not anneal the ally.
I did use the tool and cutter grinder to true the wheel as I have it to use. You could do the same by setting it up between centres in a lathe and then holding a router or die grinder in the tool post. Very important to protect the bed from the grinding grit. This cheap English Wheel was crap quality but after a bit of tweaking the capabilities have exceeded my expectations. ;D
Cheers
Tim
The wheels on ours seem true enough 👍 still waiting for the garage member who moved out and left it to ask for money for it..
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 29, 2016, 05:59:13
Love Ebay as you can get almost anything you need. But sometimes it does take a long time to arrive >:(, the 16.5mm drill has taken 5 weeks to arrive - but it was cheap!! ;D
I have now tapped the oil cooler sandwich plate (M18 fine) so the hose fittings can be assembled. Not sure the colours will stay as supplied. The hoses are way too long, but they are standard hydraulic fittings so it is easy to cut the hose to length with an angle grinder and then reassemble.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Sep 30, 2016, 01:16:35
Hold on, did you just make that oil cooler plate yourself? :) you should seriously pat yourself on the back a few times, thats awesome work!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 30, 2016, 06:37:08
Hold on, did you just make that oil cooler plate yourself? :) you should seriously pat yourself on the back a few times, thats awesome work!

I agree.  Awesome skills there mate  8)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Sep 30, 2016, 10:41:30
But why not spin on filter when going to such trouble?

Got one of these for the CB
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDQwWDY2MA==/z/tAAAAOSwq7JT1mzQ/$_1.JPG)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 01, 2016, 06:06:59
Hi Tune-A
The spin on works well on the CB as the filter sticks out the front almost horizontal. The XS oil filter unfortunately sticks down almost vertically and the spin-on filters appear to be a lot longer than the original.The spin on would be easier but just don't think it is practical. Thanks for the head's up.
The sandwich plate is almost finished now, just needs an O ring to seal on the adapter socket.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 02, 2016, 07:05:15
The first road bike I bought was in China, when we were living there for a couple of years - more of a curio than anything. The Chang CJ750 was made from the original BMW blue prints - I think the Chinese were still using blue prints around 2005 when I bought it brand new from the factory. Got it back to Australia and I did ride it for a while, but the lack of reliability got too much in the end so it was sold. Some of the money funded the first XS750. Before we left China I did buy a few spares for the Chang and one part was a complete chrome headlight. I found it the other day and I am going to fit it to the XS896 with a Koso Multi function instrument. It will need new mounting brackets, as it is a long headlight!
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 09, 2016, 06:32:02
Rolling, rolling, rolling on Saturday. Spent a few hours with the English Wheel starting to make the front fender. Probably spent about 3 hours and have a few more before I get it to match the front wheel diameter.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 09, 2016, 07:36:34
The Chang Jiang headlight is an inspired addition!

Crazy
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 15, 2016, 04:32:25
Finally finished the oil cooler sandwich plate, by cutting an O ring groove where the adapter socket fits through to prevent any bleed through.

Then some more rolling -getting close. But I have learnt that if you try to speed up the process by applying more pressure only causes more problems. Slow and steady is the only option.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 15, 2016, 05:22:21
Impressive work with the english wheel there! You've picked that up quickly!  What is your process?  You do any sand bag beating or edge shrinking first?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 15, 2016, 08:46:21
In the end I did not get a shrinker, so it has all been on the wheel. It would probably be quicker if I did use a hammer and bag plus the shrinker. The radius is not quite tight enough yet but another hour I should be there. I have only used 2 different curved wheels to get it done.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Oct 15, 2016, 09:49:54
Awesome job, both machining and fenders!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 17, 2016, 03:37:10
awesome work
the grinder and that centers fixture rig is a handy lashup, im a bit jelly over  you got a lotta stickout on the boring for that close oring groove she give ;less chatter shortened up a bunch but you know that
you must be testing us  8)
when you are up against work hardened aluminum sheet, you can anneal it easilly with acetalyne flame
first blacken the metal in the desire areas to anneal,black black as fook with pure yellow flame  no oxy
then go and with the torch flame nice and nuetral ,normal oxyweld flame ,pretty gently and evenly heat the black area well back 4-6'' or so ,off the hot cone flame, just keep evenly heating till the black burns off ,it burns off like magic,let it aircool , end result should be way  more workable
i didn't make it up its an old panel beaters trick probably the aircraft boys figgured that one out
it works i have used the method with success
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 17, 2016, 03:58:09
Thanks for the advice. Must admit I was a bit lazy with the boring set. I had to clear the clamps, but I could have shortened it up a bit. The biggest error was the cutting angle being too aggressive. 20/20 hind sight ;D
I am in two minds about annealing it - I like the tough springy work hardened condition in the fender to make it more resilient in use. Probably should have annealed it earlier and then finished up with the hard final fender. Thanks for the process, will try it earlier on the rear fender.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Karlloss on Oct 19, 2016, 17:36:23
Nice work on the fenders. What gauge sheet are you using?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 19, 2016, 19:04:44
1.6mm 5005 H34.
H34 is apparently half max hardness. After all the forming it has work hardened considerably.

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 24, 2016, 04:06:17
Did not get much done on the bike as the Snapper are in. Rough shitty weather but we still managed to get out at 5.00am in the rain and 20 knot wind to land a couple of fish ;D. This was the biggest at 72cm and 5.5Kg.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Oct 24, 2016, 09:11:15
Nice Snappy! other than that weather I would love to be catching some of this falls bounty... Blackened Snapper N corn balls!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Habanero52 on Oct 24, 2016, 10:40:41
Great eating!!!!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Oct 25, 2016, 04:17:03
Nice Snappy! other than that weather I would love to be catching some of this falls bounty... Blackened Snapper N corn balls!
Tuna - any chance of getting your "Blackened Snapper & Corn balls" recipe? We got 15 meals out of this one and it is looking like a great season. Would love to give some Cajun a go.
Cheers
Tim







Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jan 14, 2017, 04:35:06
Its been a long time! Too many distractions with fishing and summer holidays.
Great Snapper season this year and then summer holidays with the family. Great weather at the beach. Amazing how quick everyone can get out of the surf when a 3m shark came in for a closer look!!! :P
No luxury on the holiday, just camping in the caravan - refer photo. The photo of the beach was taken from the bar at the local pub  ;D, doing it tough.
Have done a little on the bike, laminated up the seat cushion.The cushion is made up of 3 different densities of foam. The top white, is low density, just fluff to make sure the trim fills out! The dark grey is a high density to support the occupant. The blue is very high density to catch you if you bottom out the grey.  Then I will take it to work and get out trimmers to finish it off. Work in the automotive industry, if you look at the interiors on the Tesla model S and model X you can see some of our work, the seats are our design! Not bad for down under ;D!!
I need to assemble the bike next and sort out how to route the exhaust system. Hope to chip away at it now, only problem is that I am off to Shanghai for 10 day with work  >:(
Hope we all have a great year.
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 14, 2017, 05:43:44
Mate, not the worst distractions I can think of!  Piss off with your lovely beach photos  ;D  We have been hovering around zero and feeling the bite of the wind here in the north.  My folks live on the Gold Coast and send me pics like yours of them at the beach.  JEALOUS!  Nice work o the Tesla trim as well!

Live it up and get what you can get done bit by bit  :)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Jan 14, 2017, 10:12:54
Tuna - any chance of getting your "Blackened Snapper & Corn balls" recipe? We got 15 meals out of this one and it is looking like a great season. Would love to give some Cajun a go.
Cheers
Tim



Cajun Black Dust: Make extra and save for up to 6 months in a saved spice jar.

    1 teaspoon Paprika
    1 teaspoon Onion Powder
    1 teaspoon Garlic Powder
    1 teaspoon Cayenne Pepper
    1 teaspoon Ground Black Pepper
    1 teaspoon Dried Oregano/I sometimes replace with cilantro, the ladies love it
    1 tablespoon Sea Salt

I don't dust the fish with season, but you can do it how you like. I like to squirt a teaspoon or so of peanut oil (vegie if allergic) in an iron skillet then add a chunk of butter (real not yellow plastic goo) over medium heat and add the spices to toast in the juice until it gets your drool going from the smell, then let cool in a glass bowl.

Make up the corn balls while the season batch is cooling.

1/2 white cornbread 1/2 yellow (one is sweet and one is neutral) best to use corn from the cob but thawed frozen is good also. Now in that same pan uncleaned add the corn, should be enough of the season to lightly flavor the corn, remove and let cool while mixing the dough.

The dough is however much you want to make. Add the dry into a glass bowl, add corn (this is tricky too much corn and they may break) like 1/4 cup corn to a cup of dough  add 1/3 the amount of water or chicken stock the batch calls for on the package add one egg or two if for more than a dozen. In the end the mix should hold a shape but not too dry.

I don't like to waste oil or have too much to get rid of so I use a medium sauce pan and deep fry them 4 at a time, you need to have the oil as close to 350deg as you can too hot and the middle is raw to coold and you have grease balls... deep fry until dark almost chocolate dark but not burnt... = Yum.

Prep the fish by patting dry with paper towels and on the skin side score the fish gently one way 3/4in apart and 1/8in deep don't cut deep at all.

Use a soup spoon and your fingers to spread the season on the fish, not too much or it will be salty. That pan should be both seasoned and just wiped clean for the fish, add a small squirt of oil, add a pat of butter (remember the fish has all this on it already we just don't want things to stick) bring the heat on and as soon as it starts to flash the butter add the fish skin (removed) side down and turn down a bit... very important not to turn too soon 4-5 minutes then flip and cook for 2 minutes 3 if you like it really well.

If you serve rice with the dish, you can now use the drippings to make a sauce to die for... heat the dirty pan add a little butter then in a measuring cup add 1-1/2 cups milk add 1tbs of flour and 1/2 tsp of the dry season stir vigorously and pour into the pan, stir with a whisk until the pan has given back all those seasons and fishy juices, pour into a bowl use a rubber spatula to get it all.

Rice 2-1 water rice, add 1 tsp oil to pot, pinch of salt add water and boil, add rice and cook for 18 minutes on lowest setting, turn off and don't open until ready to plate... ladle a small pond of sauce (taste first) onto the plate, open rice and fluff with a fork, using a small glass bowl just lightly rub a littl butter in the bowl with paper towel and fill with rice packing lightly, turn over onto the sauce and the butter will release a perfect pile of yummy every time  :o add a blackened filet, drizzle a tiny bit of sauce on the edge of the fish, drop a few balls on the plate and you my friend have made someone very happy.

Enjoy  ;D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jan 14, 2017, 17:21:10
Thanks Tune-A, cannot wait to try it, pity I am off to Shanghai today!!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Jan 14, 2017, 18:21:51
Thanks Tune-A, cannot wait to try it, pity I am off to Shanghai today!!

Oh? well go down into the ghetto and get a fresh and hot whole Peking Duck and take it back to the room and devour that thing!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jan 15, 2017, 02:39:35
Yep, the Chinese do a great duck.
Managed to get a bit more done. Made up the seat pan out of 4mm 5083 ally, would have preferred 2.5, but I had 4.0 not 2.5, might have to mill a few slots to lighten it a bit. I am going to try and come up with a clip in seat, using the slotted grommets that are used to hold the standard side covers.
Also having second thoughts on the white foam as it is just collapsing (as intended) but the single layer (20mm) of the high density (grey) foam is bottoming out too much  >:(. Think it will end up with just 2 layers of grey. :D
Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Jan 15, 2017, 06:15:58
Nice work, I am building an XS750 sidecar (almost done with the engineering side to be honest), but I really have to build a different seat, so I shall follow your build closely as I want to do something a lot more classic, like the one on a SR500/XS650.

Oh and I might have to look for an English wheel as you make that look way too easy.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jan 16, 2017, 04:14:32
Hi Nanno
I had a Chang sidecar and sold it and bought my first XS750. I just could not get comfortable on twisty roads with a sidecar!
With the English wheel I am an absolute novice. If you look on the university of Youtube there are some guys who can do amazing work. My front guard is close, but not good enough yet. The curvature is not correct, I need a 20" diameter and it is at  about 22". I might need to get a thickener onto the sides to pull it around! The center of the guard has thinned down from the 1.2mm stock to 0.8mm from working with the English Wheel. It has work hardend very well and is rigid and  springy.
Cheers
Tim.

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Jan 16, 2017, 05:36:45
It takes a while to get the hang of sidecar'ing. Partially it's also a tribute to the weather overhere, we measure snow in feet and not inches and usually it's about three to four months a year where riding solo just isn't an option (for me at least). And neither is not riding at all.

Yes, I'll have a closer look at some of those videos on youtube. So far I haven't really done much sheet metal work in my life, only structural stuff. (I am trained engineer originally!) But I am looking forward to the challenge.

Not trying to divert anybody from your build, but in case you're interested about my build, have a look at my blog, which is linked in the footer below.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jan 17, 2017, 02:37:55
Hi Nanno
Good to see the work of another Yamaha fan! Love the manifold  work. From what you have done, sheet metal will not be difficult for you.
Cheers
Tim

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jan 17, 2017, 03:08:44
Well, at least your seat wont break! If i had you weather i would probably not do much but the garage is warm and the xs is getting new swing arm bearings while its still freezing here.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jan 17, 2017, 10:43:10
Well, at least your seat wont break! If i had you weather i would probably not do much but the garage is warm and the xs is getting new swing arm bearings while its still freezing here.

Hey data!
I´ll be down that road too sooner or later on my build. is there a way that you cover changing the bearings in your XS thread?

cheers!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jan 17, 2017, 11:15:50
I may, if i dont get too drunk😁 never done it before so, will try to document it.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jan 17, 2017, 11:54:08
I may, if i dont get too drunk😁

sounds like my weekend plans  :D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jan 29, 2017, 00:44:24
Little bit more work on the seat. Changed the top layer to the harder grey foam and then cut the wedge out of the pillion area to follow the upturn on the frame loop. Next it is off to work for skiving the foam to the final profile and making the trim cover.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jan 31, 2017, 04:59:52
Little bit more work on the seat. Changed the top layer to the harder grey foam and then cut the wedge out of the pillion area to follow the upturn on the frame loop. Next it is off to work for skiving the foam to the final profile and making the trim cover.

Nice work on the seat!May I ask which kind of foam/density did you use?

Cheers
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jan 31, 2017, 17:25:56
Ryan
The foam is open cell polyurethane that has been slab cut to 20mm thick. Hardness, we would specify at nominal 250N, but different suppliers and markets may specify in other ways. The trimmers have done a great job gluing and getting the foam ready to trim. The foam is now cut back to be 4mm out from the base plate edge, so that there is no visible read through from the base plate.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Feb 25, 2017, 02:40:55
Had a bit of time today when I was getting the boat ready to go fishing tomorrow. The steering head bearings need replacing as they are rusted and pitted. The top one came out without trouble. The bottom one is being difficult. The issue is that I cannot get to the lip on the lower outer race to drive it out!!!! There are 2 groves, front and rear that are meant to expose the lip so you can drive it out, but even with the groves the lip is not exposed enough to get a drift onto it. Heat was no real help - did not get it hot enough to burn paint though.
Any one got any special tricks that I could try?
Thanks
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Feb 25, 2017, 05:05:28
Make two or three tack-welds. That will distort the bearing cup sufficiently so it'll fall out under its own weight.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 25, 2017, 19:26:07
Make two or three tack-welds. That will distort the bearing cup sufficiently so it'll fall out under its own weight.

+1 this method works great.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: jpmobius on Feb 25, 2017, 21:07:34
+1 on the welding distortion plan.  Alternatively, you can take a Dremel or die grinder and a small cut off wheel and enlarge the two recesses originally intended to make a spot to use a drift to remove the original much wider race.  Then you can just tap the race out.  Depends on the gear you have on hand as both ways work well.  However, in the long haul, having the enlarged recesses will prevent frustration on the next bearing replacement.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Feb 25, 2017, 22:02:45
Thanks Gents
2 large tack welds and then a bit of a tap (did not wait for it to cool down - patience is not one of my virtues) and out it came. The larger welds gave me a spot to get the drift onto and a very small tap and bing it was on the floor.
Thanks
Tim
PS. Fishing was not too good = one flathead.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Feb 26, 2017, 05:25:27
Hey data!
I´ll be down that road too sooner or later on my build. is there a way that you cover changing the bearings in your XS thread?

cheers!
Next week i will be changing swing and wheel bearings! Can put it up in my build thread, or make a new one?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Feb 26, 2017, 06:58:00
Next week i will be changing swing and wheel bearings! Can put it up in my build thread, or make a new one?
Hey man!

Totally up to you thanks!

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 26, 2017, 07:00:09
Fishing was not too good = one flathead.

At the price flathead is fetching in Sydney that works out to be a good deal!

Crazy
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jun 24, 2017, 04:43:19
It has been a looooooong time !!!!!!!!
Sorry about that. I am at the point where I really need to reassemble the bike so I can fit everything together and make up the exhaust. Did a little bit today on the rear fender. I have left it long at this point, until the final fittout, and possibly until the roadworthy!! In the photo from the rear you can see that I still need to do a little work to get the profile even. I am very happy with the way it is setting up with the rear loop, as it is creating grab handles.  The intended light is a new spare from an Yamaha IT, should go with the scrambler theme.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jun 25, 2017, 06:22:25
I had to have the fork stanchion refurbished. I thought it was just a rechrome, but it turned out that the stanchions were slightly bent. Guess the PO must of had a DNF with his speedway at some stage!!!!!
I have just put them together without fitting the new seals.  Springs are only a couple of mm short of the nominal length, so no need to replace at this point. When I bought the bike there were no front calipers, once again Ebay provided. The final assembly with oil and seals will be when I have put the bike together completely including paint.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 02, 2017, 06:00:25
Completed a little bit more today.
Mounted the tank, with the back mounting point raised a little to get the bottom of the tank parallel with the frame.
Tack welded in a back mount for the seat and fender. The intent for mounting the seat is to hook it in at the front and then hold it in with 2 screws at the back mount.
Also tuned the fender profile to be more symmetrical, not fully satisfied yet.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 03, 2017, 20:29:33
Mounted the seat last night.
Made up 2 plastic bobbins to go up the front of the seat. The OD bears on the frame to locate it laterally. The step down creates a lip so that when you push it forward the bobbin locks under the piece of flat welded across the frame and locates it longitudinally. The seat is finally locked in position by 2 M6 screws at the back on the fender mount. Hope the photos give a clearer explanation.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 08, 2017, 06:19:02
Started to assemble the bike so I can work out the details before painting.
I made up some nylon bushes instead of fitting the new steering head bearings at this point.
Also made up some adjustable struts instead of buying new shocks at this point. Currently they are set at 340mm between centres.  I am planning to get 360mm shocks to lift the rear. 340mm is what they should sag too, once the motor is in and I am on it.
The first obvious issue once the wheels were fitted is that the rear guard is way too long. If I have the rear light mounted starting from the loop as per the photo then it looks much better. You can see the proposed cut line (blue) marker line.
The front guard, I am thinking about mounting it high like most dirt bikes. Any thoughts about high or low mounting? Sorry missed taking a photo today = I will try to take one tomorrow.
Happy with the handle bars ;D
Hope to get the engine in tomorrow, then I have to sort out the headlight mount.
Biggest problem is that the shed is full, and the 896 only just fits beside the 750. It has to be wheeled out to work on! First world problem!!!!!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2017, 08:48:20
Looking great man.  Love that combined rear guard/inner guard.  Also dig the adjustable rear struts to suss out ride height!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 09, 2017, 03:29:28
Did not get the engine in today. The engine is not finished as I have to install the pistons and gaskets. I know it will be marginal, but I would be happier with the engine absolutely correct before I start welding up the headers.
Spent some time today working out the location of the headlight. As it is set up there is a good view of the speedo. The head light is dominating the aesthetic of the bike and I am not in love with it - any thoughts?
Also put the front guard up high which I think will work, once again - any thoughts?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 09, 2017, 06:33:09
Great looking headlight, but perhaps for another bike!

Something much smaller front-to-back would look better.

Bit hard to judge on the guard without the mass of the motor in place.

Crazy
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 09, 2017, 07:53:17
Yes I agree, wrong light for a scrambler.
A shorter smaller light might be the way to go.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Johnny on Jul 09, 2017, 07:58:23
That headlight was the first thing I noticed. That and the high mudguard combo. It looks killer!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: pacomotorstuff on Jul 09, 2017, 09:11:27
Love the high front fender but perhaps you might want a fork brace (the forks might be a little willowy without the low front fender to brace it?
The headlamp is too cool (what is it from, anyway?), but as others have opined, a bit big for the style of bike.  Maybe something like a Preston Petty style headlight / number plate to really give it an off road look?
I know you're going to do this already, so just a reminder to check the full travel of the rear wheel, to see if it will hit the flat alloy sheet you're using for the forward section of the back fender.
Neat build.
Pat
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 09, 2017, 10:21:41
Theres something really off with the fender up there.. cant really say what it is, high fender would be cool, but it looks weird, maybe some rails as someone said?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Johnny on Jul 09, 2017, 10:27:48
Your bike reminds me this, probably that's why I like it:
(http://moto.zombdrive.com/images800_/izh-planeta-5-9.jpg)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Popeye SXM on Jul 09, 2017, 20:22:07
For me the radius of the front fender is too big, I like the position just think it looks too big, Try lowering the head light a little. I spend hours doing mock ups, usually ending with beer and more mock ups!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 09, 2017, 21:26:15
The head light is from a Chang CJ750 which is actually made from the BMW M72 blue prints, perfect for that bike - and in those days they were blue prints!!!
Might be time to try the other extreme, like the Suzuki PE, always liked the look of the PE's!! Which is similar to the Preston Pretty that was suggested.
I do have a XS front guard which I might try. I really need to get the engine in with the headers and oil cooler so I can confirm clearances. the rear guard needs trimming to get a better perspective of the overall appearance.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 09, 2017, 21:33:26
The Yamaha IT425 was similar as well!!!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 09, 2017, 23:26:45
The Yamaha IT400 1978, same year as the XS750 special doner bike, has a head light and number plate which look very doable.
I can't help wondering why dirt bikes of that vintage had such punchy engines yet the brakes were absolute crap.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 17, 2017, 05:39:16
New tyres arrived today. Very limited choice of options for the front. In the end I managed to track down a NOS Pirelli MT90 S/T 100/90 - 19 and a new MT90A/T 120/80 - 18 for the rear.
New head light is ordered which is 5.75" and I am planning on making up a setup similar to the 1978 IT400.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 25, 2017, 00:56:39
Picked up the embroidery on the rough cut leather panels for the seat today. Hopefully I can get the trimmers onto finishing the seat soon.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 26, 2017, 07:57:06
Happy days - picked up these off a Triumph 900 sprint. Cost $150 (100 Euro) delivered!!!!! Hope they go on the 896 without needing to re jet. Time will tell.

Question - when you polish alloy engine covers do you clear coat or leave them raw???
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 26, 2017, 08:28:36
I never clearcoat. Dont like the finish... too bad they are mikunis and not keihin, i got my keihins near perfect on the 896
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 26, 2017, 08:41:51
I never clearcoat. Dont like the finish... too bad they are mikunis and not keihin, i got my keihins near perfect on the 896

He was selling these as he had just got a set of Keihins to replace them!!! For the price I could not let them go, as they are more modern than the MkII's that I have. Thanks for your thoughts on clear coat.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 26, 2017, 08:45:37
Well, they work well on the sprint that delivers about 110hp, although water cooled so should be jetted leaner than an oil cooled at the same hp figures, so might just be very close!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jul 26, 2017, 09:47:00
Happy days - picked up these off a Triumph 900 sprint. Cost $150 (100 Euro) delivered!!!!! Hope they go on the 896 without needing to re jet. Time will tell.

Question - when you polish alloy engine covers do you clear coat or leave them raw???
You are lucky.
I'm running exactly these carbs on my stock xs 750.
I will have a look at which jets i'm running.
I however changed all ORings (especially under the needle seat),there is a british firm that sells Oring kits for them.
They are great carbs and perform really well.
As for the alloy,I never clear coat (it will not hold up for very long,as its also slowly corroding),just wipe it down now and then with a rag and wd40...

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 26, 2017, 11:34:57
Very cool embroidery.  It's the details that define a project.  Hate to point this out, but I see it so often I guess not too many folks know.  While the three tuning fork logo is common to both Yamaha (Music) and Yamaha Motor, they are not the same.  The pointed handles of the tuning forks pass through the perimeter circle in the Yamaha Motor Company logo, but are contained within the circle in the Yamaha Corporation logo.  No doubt it is a small difference (probably not to the two branches of Yamaha), but I figure most people that are detail oriented likely also wish to have said details correct.  I'm not suggesting that you re-do the embroidery, but might be good to know for next time!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: irk miller on Jul 26, 2017, 11:50:08
Very cool embroidery.  It's the details that define a project.  Hate to point this out, but I see it so often I guess not too many folks know.  While the three tuning fork logo is common to both Yamaha (Music) and Yamaha Motor, they are not the same.  The pointed handles of the tuning forks pass through the perimeter circle in the Yamaha Motor Company logo, but are contained within the circle in the Yamaha Corporation logo.  No doubt it is a small difference (probably not to the two branches of Yamaha), but I figure most people that are detail oriented likely also wish to have said details correct.  I'm not suggesting that you re-do the embroidery, but might be good to know for next time!
The "M" is different, as well.  The center reaches the bottom on the motors division logo, while it does not on musical.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 26, 2017, 20:12:27
The devil is in the detail.  You are absolutely correct about the detail of the logos.  If we had followed the logo to its absolute detail then the tuning  forks would have been solid colour and not the perimeter stitch. The logo is 120mm diameter and I did not want the logo to dominate the seat, so to make it more subtle I went for the perimeter stitch. This then created a problem with the outer ring as to follow the embedded points or simplify it to a thin single ring? Discussed the design with the trimmers and they were worried about the durability of the Yamaha Motors logo being embroided into the leather. Remember every stitch puts 2 perforations into the leather. As this was a potential seating position we compromised on the detail to get a more durable seat.

Ryan - do you have the details of the O ring kits?

Thank you all for your input.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 29, 2017, 06:12:24
I fitted 2 different fenders for a look today. The first is mounted high and is from a Yamaha IT200, the second is mounted low and is from an XS750.
My preference is the low mounted XS750. What do you think??
Front view with the XS750 fender. Happy with the new headlight and having the speedo out there. Might put a flyscreen on, but we will see.
Pat questioned what would happen when the rear suspension bottomed out. It pretty much hits the top and the front simultaneously, so I guess that's OK?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 29, 2017, 06:32:24
My preference is the low mounted XS750…

Mine also.

Crazy
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Jul 29, 2017, 07:10:48
If you had one with more of a beak it would look nuts!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 30, 2017, 06:01:13
Engine is in, but all is not perfect. Broke the last compression ring when assembling. Only one person to blame http://www.dotheton.com/forum/Smileys/default/cry.gif
The engine was always going to come out, but now it needs some work. Other than the ring, it has all gone together well and I am happy with the header and oil cooler. With the oil cooler squish plate the oil cleaner housing are level with exhaust and engine mounts. Looks like I will be able to change the oil filter without demounting the header.
The looks like the exhaust will all go together well, the muffler will go back a little further so the end is level with the axel. Now need to cut the flanges off the header and fit and weld the ones that I have made.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jul 30, 2017, 06:26:14
Beautiful!!!

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 30, 2017, 06:31:50
The bee's knees!

Crazy
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Jul 30, 2017, 07:00:16
Beautiful!!!

Shame about the ring though...
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Psycrow on Jul 30, 2017, 07:17:52
Looking great!!

Psy

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Luugo86 on Jul 30, 2017, 14:01:59
Welds on that exhaust look great. Did you do them yourself?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 30, 2017, 19:30:01
Welds on that exhaust look great. Did you do them yourself?

The header is off a Triumph 1050 and is yet to be modified to connect to the Yamaha head. The Triumph pitch is correct but the inlets are cast and an oval shape which cannot connect. I have made up some new header tubes for the interface, now just have to cut and shut. I do not TIG weld, but have a friend at work who is very capable. Might cost me a beer or two.  ;D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Jul 31, 2017, 07:32:58
Quote
He was selling these as he had just got a set of Keihins to replace them!!!
BST36SS carbies arrived today - obvious why they were so cheap  :-\
They are well and truly worn out. I will strip them down and see how bad they are. Could end up needing slides, guides, needles, tubes and o rings. In other word bucks!! I am going to put them as a possibility rather than a certainty to being fitted. The MkII's that I have are in excellent condition.
Ryan - the sling shot feature on the BST36SS appears to have an extra fuel rail and vacuum circuit? Did you block them off, as your photos don't show the extra tubes?? Reports are that the Sling Shot feature will not function without the vacuum from the airbox. So it will not be working on my bike.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Jul 31, 2017, 08:26:55
Hey tim!

I'm running pods on mine (which are working perfectly, a little lean,need to big up the mains).
I left the air vents (black plastic fittings) open and put hoses on them....no problems with synchro or anything!
Slides should normally wear little but the needle normally 'ovals' out the needle seat...If you want I can look up where I ordered the orings.check if youre mixture screw tips are not stuck in their orifice!!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 06, 2017, 05:40:38
Oil cooler is now on, with hoses, which I will trim down later to neaten it up.
From the first photo you can see why the head flanges needed to be replaced. I purchased 90o bends to make up new interface flanges. Turns out that they needed to be 70o, which meant a number of cuts and tacks to get then back to 70o. All tacked together, but might get new 70o bends if I can to make it a neater job.
The "special" kick starter does clear the exhaust.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Aug 06, 2017, 08:05:41
bee knees man!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 07, 2017, 22:48:29
Just got confirmation on the supply of a new set of rings to replace the broken compression ring. Very happy with the support offered by http://stores.ebay.com.au/cruzinimage-au320?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 (http://stores.ebay.com.au/cruzinimage-au320?_trksid=p2047675.l2563). If anyone is asking about big bore kits they are well worth contacting. The prices are much better than others on Ebay for exactly the same kits and their service is absolutely first class.
No "short cuts" this time, and I will use a ring compressor!  :-[
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 08, 2017, 03:14:37
I also use cruzinimage pistons, was very suspicious of both the seller and the noname pistons at first, but my machinist said they looked alright, and measured out very even.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 10, 2017, 06:18:26
The trimmers found some time to have a go at my seat. They made up the patterns and then a validation cover before they used the embroided panels. We are using Napa leather which will be fine as long as I stay out of the mud and rain. Vinyl would be more durable but just does not have the feel of good Napa leather.
I am thinking that it might look a little better if the "back lump: was extended forward about 25mm to line up better with the frame and shock transition. Any thoughts??
Any other comments or suggestions??
The back guard is going to be trimmed back a bit more after she has the roadworthy and is registered! Can be painful in Australia!!!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 10, 2017, 08:39:37
Any thoughts??

As it is, it lines up with an extension of the swing-arm pivot to top shock mount line.

Crazy
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 10, 2017, 18:21:46
Looking awesome man.  Love the oil cooler and the exhaust adaptation.  Nice.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 12, 2017, 07:13:14
Seat should be finished next week, I wanted to try my other tank. I think it is either an "E" or "F" version tank and it looks much better in the photos than the flesh. Planning to paint the previous tank  silver, but not with the contrasting red or blue colour? Any thoughts??
Fitted the indicators. Happy with the rears but the front foul the frame on full lock, so I am going to have to change them tomorrow. They don't stand out, and blend in with the bike which is what I wanted.
I made up the bike lifter, as the bike does not have a centre stand. The lifter uses the centre stand pivot points. I was then able to get the rear caliper in and get the back wheel in the correct location.
There is possibly a problem getting the exhaust out past the brake pedal and foot peg. Foot pegs are coming from the US  now. I have organised some new 70o bends for the headers, but could not source annealed 304 stainless tube so I am not sure how well they will turn out. Exhaust will be finalised once I have the foot pegs, so I know all the constraints.
360mm shockers have also been ordered, it will be great to get some shocks on and get a better picture of the finished bike.
I have seen a few people in other posts asking about removing rush from chrome parts. I soak them is diesel and then wire brush by hand. They come up very well. I will see if the foot pegs out of the US (salt) need such work.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 12, 2017, 11:06:13
The 304 will anneal first time you ride it, wont be a problem😉
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 13, 2017, 07:06:25
Hey Ryan
What did you do for the choke on the Mikuni BST36's?
What diameter pods fit the BST36's?
Thanks for your help.
Tim
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Aug 13, 2017, 07:16:27
Hey Ryan
What did you do for the choke on the Mikuni BST36's?
What diameter pods fit the BST36's?
Thanks for your help.
Tim
I didnt do anything yet.My friend Der Nanno bought a bowden puller from a lawn mawer and installed it.
IRC mine are 60MM in diameter,just measure the longer side of the oval and the round filter will adapt.Just make sure to trim back the rubber boot on the inside or it may block the air opening for the membrane.

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Aug 13, 2017, 08:21:12
Yup, one of those lawn-mower throttles did the trick perfectly. Or you get a left-side XV750/920/1000 switch cluster and swap out the bottom case to make it look like this:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-btHJcKyQwgc/WY7F4QiqP2I/AAAAAAAACHo/ebdkTQ6nA1Yv4Ex6ziRy8yGso3ICDLXfwCEwYBhgL/s1600/IMG_5380.JPG)

Filter-inlet has to be 63mm and yes, you may end up trimming the rubber part of it a bit.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 13, 2017, 08:43:49
Thanks for your help.  ;D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Aug 13, 2017, 10:21:37
You could, of course, go all in and dump the Triumph carbs in favour of a set of VM36s, which is what I did. There's some snowmobiles that use VM36 carbs, so they aren't more expensive than CV carbs, but you have to solder a lot of throttle cables and splitters etc.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 13, 2017, 19:24:47
Quote
dump the Triumph carbs in favour of a set of VM36s,

Guess we will have to line you (without the anchor) and Ryan up one day and see which carbies give the better performance!  ;D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Aug 14, 2017, 01:31:45
That's quite simple: The VM36s (I used to run Triumph carbs on my first XS triple sidecar), but the Triumph carbs are less hassle to install ;-)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 14, 2017, 06:34:09
Seat is now finished, very happy with it. But as I have said before the Napa leather is vulnerable to staining when handling in the shed. So it is not on the bike while I am working on it.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 14, 2017, 07:48:34
Classy!

Crazy
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 18, 2017, 00:02:25
OK, my mate (TIG welder) has confirmed that I fucked up my headers. :-[  I had everything that I needed but my execution was crap. :'(  There was a much easier way to get a better result. So to share with everyone else on how it should be done he came up with the attached explanation. Not too much damage just $60 of mandrel bends  :).
Since I put on the old XS750E tank, silver with the red patch, it has grown on me. When I studied how the tank was detailed, it is actually made up from a "Crystal Silver" base coat and then the patches are vinyl transfers and some 2 tone vinyl pin striping. So I guess that is probably a good option.
The "Crystal Silver" base coat is easy enough. To get the shape of the vinyl is a different matter. The process we settled on was to put a very light coat of spray adhesive on the tank and then use a light weight none woven fabric (we call it scrim) and lightly spray it with adhesive. We then draped it over the side of the tank, being careful not to trap wrinkle. The scrim is translucent, so it is a simple matter of tracing around the vinyl patch. The scrim is carefully pealed off, ensuring the scrim is not stretched. the scrim then glued to a cardboard backer. The vinyl profile can then be digitised and the CAD system smooths out any wobbles from the hand tracing. In the end I have a dxf file that I can take to get the vinyl patch. Very handy to have all the tools available at work to use out of work hours. I am guessing that I will not get the red colour spot on but hopefully close. Vinyl pin striping is readily available, and I need white and a deeper red.
From my lesson learnt above does anyone have a more simple method to get the same result?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 18, 2017, 03:21:15
Yes, i looked at your headers now, way too many pie cuts.. each cut will pull in some direction, and only way to get them where you want them is to cut it all apart and weld one at a time, and it wont look very good done like that. Plus its going to be very expensive with all the backing gas. Use as few cuts as posible on the headers, if you want them more than 90 degrees bent, use a 90 degree bend and cut off how many degrees you want from another bend. Plus its kinda tricky to do all those welds and not have any bulges on the inside blocking flow. I can, but it costs 50€/hr😁
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Aug 18, 2017, 03:26:12
Tim,

Why dont you order the OEM decal for the tank and clear coat it?
I have a dealer in Germany who probably has this decal.
Will you paint the crystal silver on your own?

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Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 18, 2017, 04:33:58
Hi Ryan
If your dealer does have a complete set, there will be 5 separate decals per side = total of 10 to complete the tank! The other issue could be the adhesive after 40 years? For the colour to be correct they are from the "E" model.

Your question for the Walrus - the front casing bolts are M8 X 45mm. Pulled one out this afternoon and checked, refer photo!

Dave - yes totally agree now that it was a fuckup. With my mates process, that he did on his XS400, it can be done with 2 welds not 7!!! We live and learn.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Aug 18, 2017, 05:08:52
Hi Ryan
If your dealer does have a complete set, there will be 5 separate decals per side = total of 10 to complete the tank! The other issue could be the adhesive after 40 years? For the colour to be correct they are from the "E" model.

Your question for the Walrus - the front casing bolts are M8 X 45mm. Pulled one out this afternoon and checked, refer photo!

Dave - yes totally agree now that it was a fuckup. With my mates process, that he did on his XS400, it can be done with 2 welds not 7!!! We live and learn.

Thank you Tim for the screw measurements!

I ordered a few years back a complete set for my RD project and the decals were as new (i think they are reproduced ones but really high quality).I just sent him an email,will get back to you when I know if he has the decal set.

Arent there people on the forum that can print decals (i think sonreir)....?this could be a possibility too?

I already painted a bike silver metallic....its a b**** to paint...
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 18, 2017, 05:17:54
Quote
I already painted a bike silver metallic....its a b**** to paint...
I want to give it a go my self and the fall back is another mate who is a spray painter.
Thanks for checking out the decals
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 19, 2017, 03:24:26
Foot pegs arrived, with a bit of rust. Photo shows as it arrived and then after soaking in diesel for 30 minutes followed by a wire brush by hand. Much better  :D
Shocks arrived this week. They had 12mm bushes top and bottom, so I had to pull the top and bore them out on the lathe to 14mm so they would fit the XS frame.
Fitted the seat just to see how it all is coming together.
Tomorrow I hope to modify some clip on bar mounts to become the headlight mounts.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 19, 2017, 14:55:19
Damn man, you've out done herself.  That is looking tidy af.  I know I've already said it, but I love the stance.  Nailed 'the line' and the seat is unique and understated at the same time.  Mint.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 20, 2017, 05:42:29
Not that much time in the shed today.  :-\
Started on the new headlight mounts, which are based on a spare set of clipons. After setting the shoulder back on the lathe. The arms are machined out of 10mm ally using the mill and rotary table. Couple of hours before they are finished.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 27, 2017, 07:03:53
Weekend riding the Husaberg FE550, love that bike. Apart from the prop stand. It is Chrome moly and has broken up at the pivot, where the chrome moly tube is welded to mild steel solid that forms the pivot. I have welded it a couple of times with the arc welder, but it keeps on failing in the heat affected zone on the chrome moly. I am sure there is someone who can tell me what I am doing wrong????  :-\
Also pulled out some antique oxy acetylene regulators to see if I can get the Dillion torch working. I know the torch works as I have tried it on a modern set of regulators. These were lying around so I thought they were worth trying before investing in new regulators.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 27, 2017, 17:00:23
Probably: using the wrong filler material/welding too hot/no backing gas/wrong type of shielding gas. Or no post-heat treatment normalization of haz-zone.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 27, 2017, 19:57:27
Quote
no post-heat treatment normalization of haz-zone.

What are your suggestions on the post welding normalisation. Does it need a bit of warming with the oxy, before and after welding with the arc?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 29, 2017, 05:07:09
If you are welding mild steel onto chrome moly, i think a correct alloy filler is more important, but yes, preheat to annealing temps, weld, and post heat at annealing temps. Should not really be necessary with somewhat modern chromoly alloys and thin wall tube, but since its cracking you need to do something else. The arc welder probably isnt the best choice either. Which rods do you use?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Aug 29, 2017, 06:41:11
Thanks Dave
I have used standard mild steel rods. I then had a mate MIG weld it with the same result.
Guess I should use some low hydrogen rods? With pre and post heat treatment? ???
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: datadavid on Aug 29, 2017, 18:49:12
You might have better luck with high cromium content tig/mig filler. ER80 seems to be available worldwide, and just to make sure, do you know what shielding gas was used? Pure argon would be best, no argon/co2/h2 mixes, although i think ArH2 would actually work.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 02, 2017, 23:59:37
Came up with a choke mechanism today for the Triumph Mikuni BST36SS carbies - happy with the result.
Where the cable usually feeds into the carbies, I made up a couple of polypropylene bushes out of home irrigation tube. The shaft is 4mm steel rod with a M4 thread cut on each end. I then made up a friction leaf spring to hold the choke open and closed. At this point it is just creating friction. If needed I can cut a small grove in the shaft and centre punch a detent in the leaf to give a more positive positions.
All mods are reversible, if in the future I do want to use a cable.
New slide guides are on the way for the carbie clean & rebuild.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 04, 2017, 06:00:07
Finished the headlight mounts - they are bloody solid.
The only problem is that I now need to start to sort out the electricals - my least favorite subject. I found the problem with my charging system. Both wires were broken and the only thing holding the wires together was the fabric wrap. All fixed now.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 04, 2017, 07:30:22
Talking electricals - has anyone have some experience of these batteries?? They look a very good option to hide.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: irk miller on Sep 04, 2017, 23:23:00
Does it carry a warranty to match Antigravity's?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 05, 2017, 00:06:44
Hi Irk

Good point - I have sent off an Email asking about a warranty. Lets see if they reply, that will be make or break!!
If you want to read up on them here is the link - www.shop.modernmotorcyclecompany.com.au/collections/electrical/products/battery-240cca-lithium-ion (http://www.shop.modernmotorcyclecompany.com.au/collections/electrical/products/battery-240cca-lithium-ion)
Says they are in Australia, USA and Europe!!!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 05, 2017, 08:12:44
Got to keep dreaming. How is this for a Yamaha triple. Best looking XSR900 I have seen.
rocket-garage.blogspot.com/2017/08/borntobefastersons-xsr900-by-jeff.html (http://rocket-garage.blogspot.com/2017/08/borntobefastersons-xsr900-by-jeff.html)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Sep 05, 2017, 08:48:48
Amazing..  that would be amazing man....

Gesendet von meinem SM-A310F mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 05, 2017, 19:10:10
Quote
Does it carry a warranty to match Antigravity's?

Looks to have the warranty covered.
I am going to give it a go!
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: irk miller on Sep 05, 2017, 20:18:50
That's pretty awesome.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 07, 2017, 05:11:54
The first few coats of metallic silver are on and looking good.
2 more to go, I think. Then one clear before I try the red vinyl for the details.
Not sure why the photo has a purple hue, the colour match is very good to the original Yamaha Crystal Silver.
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 10, 2017, 06:42:25
I think I have said it before, but I really hate sorting out electricals.  :'(
Especially when the PO just cut the loom in 2 spots where it heads up to the gauges and pilot box. ??? :-X :'(
I have manages to get the new Koso gauge fired up, but the only idiot light I have managed to nut out is the high beam.
The neutral and oil pressure rely on the earth circuit for the light being broken to turn the light off. But the Koso gauge needs power to be sent to the light and has a common earth!!! Any idea on how to get it to work? :-[
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: der_nanno on Sep 10, 2017, 07:31:03
You fit a relay in between, which you set up to trigger on ground and then simply switch plus over it. (Slight overkill, but electrically the easiest way.)
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 12, 2017, 08:50:14
How is this for a beast!! http://amcn.com.au/editorial/15482/ (http://amcn.com.au/editorial/15482/)
And I thought and IT490 was hard to handle. ;D
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 17, 2017, 07:44:43
As you have seen my shed is at bursting point. Luckily my wife's cousin lives within walking distance and has agreed to me building a shed that I can store some toys = boat, caravan & motorbikes. The major issue is that I needed to fix up the storm water drainage. That meant digging a trench 30m long and 400mm deep to run a 90mm PVC pipe. That was my Saturday.
The fuel tank is coming along and the silver is really sparkling. The trick appears to be to do more light coats rather than a heavy coat. The original intent was to put the red detail on using vinyl wrap. Much easier on Youtube than for me being a novice trying to get it on without wrinkles. Think I am going to make up some masks and paint the red detail.
Spent Sunday afternoon sorting electrics. Turns out the neutral and oil pressure need a +/- signal not 12VDC. So I assume this means that the Yamaha earth switching will provide the required signal?? It has been working but not reliably, any one got any ideas??
The indicators are not working correctly either. I can get one indicator lighting up but not flashing and none of the others is working. I have the indicator cancelling unit attached but there is no input from the the speedo, could this be the problem? Can I just disconnect the cancelling unit?
Title: Re: XS750 to XS896 big bore
Post by: XS750AU on Sep 24, 2017, 07:45:17
DGR ride today, took the XS7502D, it went well until the last little bit. Started to jump out and back into 1st gear  :-\ I have never heard of an issue with 1st gear?? 2nd gear, there is plenty of information.  Any ideas???
Slab for the shed should get poured this week.
Started on the brakes, they have cleaned up well after half an hour in the ultra sonic cleaner.
Electricals are still giving me the shits! The tail light is constantly on once the ignition is turned on?? Indicators come on, but do not flash. When I swap the flasher relay into the 750 it works fine!! The indicators are aftermarket, so I am not sure if the resistance is wrong???
If anyone has any ideas, I would be grateful.