Yam RD 250 Paint Thread

So guys.

Did a lot of experiments the last days and A LOT of research on rattle can paint.

My aim was to see how the paint gonna turn out,just bought a can of the same acrylic rallte can Dupli i'm gonna work with and shot it onto primed epoxy and primed steel,tried a grey and a black primer.

So what i learned is:
Laying color needs patience-
Lay thin coats,especially with metallic,it will show where to much or too less paint was applied

Do not paint outdoors without wind protection-overspray-metallic particles will burst around-
Zero air movement is the key!

My aim was also to see the impact when i paint in worst conditions-i painted my fender in the dusties place of my workshop-just had a few grains in the paint getting stuck----what can i do when this happens?--let it dry and scuff with red scotchbrite?

This showed me when I will make all precautions-no dust-full lint free suit-NO AIR MOVEMENT--the paint will be clean and i wont deal with that.

I also bought a nice cheap (10 euro) fantic tank on an oldtimer fair today on which i will test my paint plan before i go for the big guns (RD tins and plastics).
I will guys let you know the results!

So I ran into a problem and have a question for you guys:

So my aim was to use:

Spray Max 2K Filler/Primer --> Base: 2K Epoxy
Hardener:Amines

Dupli Color Color:-->Nitro-Acrylic

Spray Max 2K Clear-->2K Acrylic Resin
Hardener:Isocyanate


So heres the question:

I read to one should stick to one firm so Spray Max (Standox) all the way trough-->Colors of Standox are Nitro-Resin based...

Can i stick to Duplicolor or will the components of Standox mess with the Dupli Color?
Dupli is easy to get in Austria,there is virtually no space that sells the Standox Color Cans...

hope you can help me!!

If you let the Duplicolor fully cure you should be just fine based on the SprayMax website.

Nice!!!so that means:
Let the filler primer fully cure
Let color fully cure
Then clear coat with 2K spray max
Or do the first 2K clear when last color coat is still wet?

Let colour cure and you will be sure to not have an issue, I believe however the Metal Speck is cured as soon as it is dry, but again read the can to make sure. I did the paint then striped it with vinyl, then let it dry I think about 2 days and hit it with 2K and it was just fine. If it was the enamel I would have had to wait the full 7.

I def gonna read the technical fiche they send.
However i'm gonna go with another tone than the metal speck so i was hoping you can tell me if the metal speck is an acrylic nitro too...?
Did you scuff between the clear coats or just lay one over another?

Duh, I didn't read the Acrylic Nitro part. sorry, that is what I am using now on the Magna Duplicolor Acrylic Enamel products, white base and Chrome yellow top coat and that has to be cured 7 days, then I will wet sand with 800 or 1000 before I clear with the 2K. I did lay a white primer and Chrome yellow Lacquer on the tank though because I couldn't get enough chrome yellow in Enamel but then enamel clear, I will be decaling that and then clearing after it has set for 7 days. On the plastics, I hit them with adhesion promotor, then white acrylic, then yellow acrylic all 10 min apart until a good coverage of colour was achieved. when they have fully cured (7 Days) I will wet sand, wipe well then hit with the 2K. The fenders were going from black to yellow so I had to cover them in white first to get the yellow to look good without it being 2" thick.

I so that means i need to let my color cure for 1 week (or whatever the manuf says).
Mobius told me to shoot 2K clear and then place the decals.you placed the decals on the cured color dont you?and then shot 2 k over it?is there a reason you did this or did you want to save the 2K can for the thin coat for the decals?

I wasn't setup yet for the 2K, i.e. suit etc. I was just in regular old clothes with respirator so I used the enamel clear just to protect the lacquer paint until I got the decals on. The final 2K will go on after I wet sand and apply the decals and set the temp booth up etc. I didn't clear the other parts as the acrylic enamel is more durable. May advice if you are using a duplicolor enamel color is to get a can of clear acrylic enamel, shoot the colour, then clear 10 min intervals and let it cure then place your decals and do a final clear with the expensive 2K. The acrylic will protect the paint some while you are in between steps and a wet sand with 600-800 grit will be enough to have the 2k adhere to it.

The only reason to shoot the clear under the decals is so you can sand the clear to prep for them. If you can sand the color, you can apply decals to that. I very seldom use color that can be sanded (metallics and candies) so I plan on clear as soon as the color is done.

By the way, when I shoot metallics, the last coat is usually very thin and shot from a much greater distance - seems to make the metalic flakes lay down much more uniformly - at least that seems to work well for me.

Keep in mind the difference between drying and curing. Semantics aside, 1 part materials like conventional spray cans simply "dry" by having all the solvents boil away into the atmosphere - there are exceptions, but assume this to be the case. There are different kinds of solvent bases, which is why you have to be careful what you choose to apply on top of something else; the solvents in the top coat may dissolve the material underneath. 2 part materials like your 2K spray can chemically react and "cure" when the 2 parts are combined. In the main, these sorts of materials are fairly immune to being affected by most other paints and solvents which is what makes them great for top coats. They also tend to have less solvents so are less prone to attacking "incompatible" base materials.

Ultimately, there is significant expense in material, whether you use spray cans or full bore professional materials, and a pretty insane amount of labor. To me, taking even a remote chance on material selection is very foolish. I mix and match materials from different manufacturers all the time, but am universally extremely careful to NEVER miss match the TYPE of material. If there is any doubt, I simply use all the specified materials from a single manufacturer. Paint manufacturing is an expensive, big and seriously competitive business. The manufacturers go to great lengths to ensure happy customers and following their direction to the letter virtually guarantees that you will be one. If you follow your own recipe for material selection you may find yourself on a painful learning curve. Trail paint something you can throw away before experimenting on your latest masterpiece!

jpmobius said:

The only reason to shoot the clear under the decals is so you can sand the clear to prep for them. If you can sand the color, you can apply decals to that. I very seldom use color that can be sanded (metallics and candies) so I plan on clear as soon as the color is done.

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Yep, I didn't want to sand the lacquer colour just in case, the enamel sands fine, I have done that before. The clear is kind of cheap insurance for not accidentally sanding too deep into the colour coat as well.

I see! Thanks guys!i will test paint a fantic tank i got for cheap,will sand it down to bare metal and use the same cans i'm gonna use on my final RD pieces.cant wait how it turns out.

So i took as a trial painting piece a plastic side cover.
The dupli color laid on nice after a good layer of primer.
I let the color fully cure and then laid on some 1K acrylic clear.first it looked great then it looked like this....orange peel?is this normal or a reaction betweem the top coat and the clear?

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Not sure that's a classic orange peel effect? Orange peel is usually 'dimpled', and those are raised, like dust or some other sort of contamination?

Definitely not orange peel and definitely not normal. Looks like solvents boiling out of the color trying to escape through the clear. I don't see any evidence of lifting or general chemical incompatibility, so maybe waiting longer (a week?) for the color to out-gas will solve the problem. You will have to sand the color though or the clear may not adhere well and peel down the road. Is the clear made by the same manufacturer as the color, and is it intended to be used with it? Realize that 1 part paints (usually) "dry" by letting the solvents boil or evaporate out of the applied liquid leaving a dry film. 2 part paints "cure" and change chemically into a hard coating, though they also have some solvents that have to evaporate. Once the 2 parts react, it is hard to separate them back into their original components so other chemicals don't dissolve them or migrate through them very easily. This makes them a bit less friendly to use on top of other materials (on the other hand, they do contain fewer solvents and have a smaller tendency to dissolve material underneath - hence the poor adhesion without sanding), but pays back handsomely in keeping things like gasoline from dissolving them from outside.

Thanks for your analysis!

Second thought was the boiling out idea too but i've let the color cure for 1 week and this happened....will call tomorrow the dupli manufacturer and ask about that.

Primer color and clear all from dupli.

The clear can says 'dont use on synthetic resin'....the color can is an acrylic nitro can...could this be the issue?

jpmobius said:

Definitely not orange peel and definitely not normal. Looks like solvents boiling out of the color trying to escape through the clear. I don't see any evidence of lifting or general chemical incompatibility, so maybe waiting longer (a week?) for the color to out-gas will solve the problem. You will have to sand the color though or the clear may not adhere well and peel down the road. Is the clear made by the same manufacturer as the color, and is it intended to be used with it? Realize that 1 part paints (usually) "dry" by letting the solvents boil or evaporate out of the applied liquid leaving a dry film. 2 part paints "cure" and change chemically into a hard coating, though they also have some solvents that have to evaporate. Once the 2 parts react, it is hard to separate them back into their original components so other chemicals don't dissolve them or migrate through them very easily. This makes them a bit less friendly to use on top of other materials (on the other hand, they do contain fewer solvents and have a smaller tendency to dissolve material underneath - hence the poor adhesion without sanding), but pays back handsomely in keeping things like gasoline from dissolving them from outside.

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so just had an intense talk with the dupli hotline.they are very helpful altough a little bit of non practical oriented

so to put it in a nutshell they told me that using brake cleaner as a degreaser is a no go...IDIOT ME.
i used it to slighlty degrease between the painting steps...they told me that the brake cleaner starting "working" with the paint,probably dissolving it.
the acrylic color paint needs just 1-2 days to fullly cure so this wasnt the issue.

so my questions now are:

A)how do you guys degrease,the dupli guys told me not to degrease in any way,since the object doesnt get touched between the coats.i thought about using some baby shampoo and a soft brush in between to be sure that theres no grease whatosever on the piece.but maybe this contaminates again.

B)I´m a little frustrated with using the clear coat. the can fogs the clear on the piece,it is extremely hard not to get some runners even when i lay it down layer by layer with little pauses in between...any recommendations?

When laying paint, then clear all at the same time, same re-coat window you do nothing after you start except lay coats of colour, then clear. If you have let the parts sit for the full cure out, you sand then clean, the do it again. Coat a layer, wait 10 min, next coat, 10 min, next coat, if colour is good, switch to the compatible clear and do the same, coat, 10 min, coat, 10 min. Don't do anything to the pieces in between. I use my phone timer to keep the 10 min at 10 min, also, the acrylic enamel clear can be foggy when laying it down but it will clear out as is drys/cures. When you go to put the 2K on it has to be fully cured, then sanded for the 2 K to stick. I use simple green to wash then lots of water to rinse, then let the parts dry well. I don't use anything after that or in between layers of paint going on in the same window of time. I only re-wash after a part has sat and cured out, then needs sanding for a top layer.

Maritime said:

When laying paint, then clear all at the same time, same re-coat window you do nothing after you start except lay coats of colour, then clear. If you have let the parts sit for the full cure out, you sand then clean, the do it again. Coat a layer, wait 10 min, next coat, 10 min, next coat, if colour is good, switch to the compatible clear and do the same, coat, 10 min, coat, 10 min. Don't do anything to the pieces in between. I use my phone timer to keep the 10 min at 10 min, also, the acrylic enamel clear can be foggy when laying it down but it will clear out as is drys/cures. When you go to put the 2K on it has to be fully cured, then sanded for the 2 K to stick. I use simple green to wash then lots of water to rinse, then let the parts dry well. I don't use anything after that or in between layers of paint going on in the same window of time. I only re-wash after a part has sat and cured out, then needs sanding for a top layer.

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thanks maritime for the insight!

so for the parts that need decals i would go now:

1.)sand and prime
2.)cure
3.)sand with 400 or 800 grit
4.)wash and dry
5.)shoot color->10min-->shoot color-->10 min till right color is achieved (the can lays down pretty transparent,needs at least 3 layers)
6.)let dry for 1 hour-->clear-10min-clear-10min-clear (1K acrylic)
7.)let cure for 1 week
8.)sand smooth
9.)apply decal
10.)embed in 2K

is the step 5.) and 6.) right? how long do you wait between the last coat of color and the first coat of clear...both are acrylic (can says 30min then clear after metallic color)...

Don't wait the hour between 5-6, just 10 min after the last colour and first clear when they are both the same type of product. If you wait too long you end up having to wait until it cures out or you have problems.