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Author Topic: Moving from rattle can to paint gun  (Read 403 times)

Offline Ryan Stecken

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Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« on: Aug 03, 2017, 08:04:42 »
Hey guys!

I will repost Mobius answer to my question on a different thread (about blasting) here since I will need some updates from you guys!

"I have a bunch of spray guns, but generally find myself using only two of them.  Based on that, my suggestion is to go and get yourself a mid priced gravity feed gun.  $200 should do it here but I have not shopped it in a long time.  HVLP (high volume low pressure) guns are great but not essential for motorcycle work.  Get something from a manufacturer that specifically builds professional spray equipment.  I have used a lot of gear, and have found pretty much everything from major manufacturers works well.  "Jetting" is pretty simple and depends on the material you are using.  Make sure the place you buy your gun from also sells needles and nozzles for it.  Generally the paint manufacturer will have recommendations for how to set up your gun, but it somewhat depends on your own technique and what you prefer.  Most of the time I grab my gravity gun which is set up for clear (Walmek GEO hvlp made in Italy).  I use it for most everything else though for three reasons:  It is more maneuverable and less sensitive to gun orientation which is important for painting small or awkward things like motorcycle parts.  It wastes less paint - siphon guns can not use all the paint in the cup.  It is easier to clean than a siphon gun.  The other gun I mostly use is a siphon gun (Either a Binks (old model 7) or DeVilbiss).  they are set up for heavier material like heavy primer/surfacers.  I usually only use them when I need to apply a lot of material to a lot of surface area, or need an especially uniform heavy coat.  On small things I still use the gravity gun even though it is not the greatest the way it is set up for heavy fluids.  The point is, it still works ok if you adjust your technique to compensate for being too lazy to change the set up.  Devilbiss, Iwata, Sata, and Binks (and many others) all make very good guns.  I would NOT buy a bargain spray gun.  Modern quality materials are far too expensive to chance problems with poor quality tools.

Of course cleaning is key and can not be overstated.  Very much like your carburetors (actually, they are damn near the same thing) the key to being able to clean your spray gun is understanding how it actually works.  Once you understand where all the air goes and where all the paint goes it is easy to know how to focus your cleaning efforts.  When I am doing anything more than a trivial job I generally have 3 separate cups of solvent for cleaning the gun in increasing levels of contamination so I can keep re-using the solvent for cleaning.  Eventually the first cup used for the first rinse has to be discarded and the second takes its place, etc.  I take the gun partially apart to clean it EVERY time I use it and completely apart after every job.  My gravity gun has hundreds of hours on it, and except for some staining of the nylon components, looks completely unused.  Sprays like it as well, so meticulous cleaning is indeed rewarded.  I know many pro painters that have guns they use exclusively for clear, but it is not necessary if you really clean your equipment.  While I'm thinking about it  - remember that clear is absolutely the hardest thing to clean out of your gun!  You can't see the clear, so get really good at cleaning dark colors out of it and then repeat this process for the clear!

And don't forget to include a good filter/dryer.  Clean DRY air is absolutely essential.  In my old shop I built the main supply piping out of 2" cast iron pipe pitched back toward the compressor and a drain petcock.  We have very high humidity here and moisture in the compressed air supply is a real problem.  Most big shops use a refrigerated chiller to condense the moisture from the air before going to the spray booth.  The long (100 + feet) large diameter cool iron pipe condensed all the moisture due to slow air speed and we never got any water to the booth - but we still had a high quality filter/dryer in front of the gun!"



Thanks Mobius, as always you are great help!

I already made a bit of research, still need to find a local dealer in Austria that will have the equipment:

I found that Air Gunsa Iwata AZ3+ Pressure Gauge (runs with 30 psi) would fit my requirements.

Here are some setup tips I found:

PRIMER: 1.8 or 2MM Needle-->15 PSI

2K Base + CLEAR+Enamel: 1.3 or 1.4MM Needle

1K Clear and Base: 1.8MM or 2MM Needle


Do you guys have any experieces with this gun?

Thanks in advance!


Offline firebane

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #1 on: Aug 03, 2017, 09:13:09 »
Why not go for a lvlp gun instead unless you intend to use it a lot of time?

Also if this is a one time thing why not use spray paint? With proper prep and clear you can get crazy good results.

Offline Ryan Stecken

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #2 on: Aug 03, 2017, 10:13:52 »
Why not go for a lvlp gun instead unless you intend to use it a lot of time?

Also if this is a one time thing why not use spray paint? With proper prep and clear you can get crazy good results.

Hey firebane!
I´m a total noob to guns so what do you mean by lvlp gun?

I already had got results with rattle can but I have the feeling that A) the paint is too expensive (I pay for 1 can around 15bucks).
B)especially with the clear there is way more need to polish (I guess its a question of atomisation and pressure).

I would use it on a regular basis.

Offline firebane

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #3 on: Aug 03, 2017, 10:31:05 »
Hey firebane!
I´m a total noob to guns so what do you mean by lvlp gun?

I already had got results with rattle can but I have the feeling that A) the paint is too expensive (I pay for 1 can around 15bucks).
B)especially with the clear there is way more need to polish (I guess its a question of atomisation and pressure).

I would use it on a regular basis.

Spray guns come in different types. LVLP is a low volume low pressure gun which allows a person with a smaller compressor to spray paint. You still need to ensure you are using all the proper precautions for water removal and drying but the guns are cheaper, use less air and spray just as good.

HVLP = High volumne low pressure

Offline Ryan Stecken

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #4 on: Aug 03, 2017, 10:57:56 »
I´m especially worried about the removing of water.
What do I need to do this and how much will it cost?

Offline jpmobius

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #5 on: Aug 03, 2017, 11:08:59 »
I already had got results with rattle can but I have the feeling that A) the paint is too expensive (I pay for 1 can around 15bucks).
B)especially with the clear there is way more need to polish (I guess its a question of atomisation and pressure).

I think you will be disappointed with the cost of paint.  Professional paint here is VERY expensive - much more so than rattle cans, though well worth it with the huge increase in quality, not to mention being able to get exactly the color you want plus all manner of fancy custom effects like pearls, candies and many more.  I'd guess Austria has much more stringent regulations for air quality than the US which may add to the cost as well. 
No doubt you will be very pleased with the "out of the gun" finish quality though.  It is very possible to get excellent results straight out of the gun, though a good gun is essential.  Personally, I always plan on sanding and polishing unless I am reproducing factory orange peel or painting something where the surface finish doesn't matter.  Even if you had the exact same material as in a spray can, the capability to adjust the air pressure, air volume , paint volume, and spray fan dimensions is hugely valuable. 
Mobius


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Offline firebane

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #6 on: Aug 03, 2017, 11:11:37 »
I´m especially worried about the removing of water.
What do I need to do this and how much will it cost?

You need a inline air dryer and moisture trap if you want to rid yourself of that stuff. You can usually find stuff fairly inexpensive if you shop around but setting up a gun to spray isn't going to be cheap.

Offline SONIC.

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #7 on: Aug 03, 2017, 12:46:44 »
As Jp said, real paint is far more expensive than rattle cans, unless you buy gallons and paint 20 bikes the same color, but where's the fun in that? I'd say good paint over here to paint a bike will run you 300+ by the time it's said and done.

Water removal is not easy or cheap if you want to really remove it. You can spray fine on low humidity days with a dessicant dryer. But if you really want no water you need a refrigerated dryer.

Offline Coopacoopacoopa

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #8 on: Sep 01, 2017, 13:02:52 »
I havn't had a chance to paint my motorcycle project yet, but for the engine bay on my car I used a 3m primer gun, and a Sata gun for paint. A shop next door to mine had both and let me borrow them for an extended weekend. They work fantastic, but they aren't cost effective unless you're going to do a lot of painting. You can use 1 gun for primer/paint/clear.  www.tcpglobal.com has a huge variety of automotive grade painting supplies. I would suggest piecing together your own kit. $150-250 will buy you an okay gun. One thing a lot of people don't take into consideration is you need a large sized air compressor if you're using an hvlp gun. For painting a motorcycle a 30 gallon air compressor will probably work, but it will run a lot.  Lvlp may be the way to go for motorcycles. As others have said, the whole set-up to do it all is expensive, which is why so many people leans towards spray-cans or paying a body shop to do it.  I totally condone learning and doing it yourself. If the cost doesn't make sense, consider buying something used, or make friends with someone who has all the gear.  ;D   
« Last Edit: Sep 01, 2017, 13:06:13 by Coopacoopacoopa »

Offline Rusnak_322

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Re: Moving from rattle can to paint gun
« Reply #9 on: Sep 01, 2017, 17:12:42 »
I painted a lot of bikes with a cheap ass gun like this-

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OBRZCA/ref=asc_df_B001OBRZCA5149700/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B001OBRZCA&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167143431342&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6501024704706862788&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015261&hvtargid=pla-307642439453



No different needles, used it for primer, color and clear coats.

All with a cheap Craftsman compressor.

I use a HVLP gun from Eastwood that I dropped $100 on. I like that better as I wasted a lot of paint with the other gun as it didn't use all of it and there was always some left in the can.

Prep, technique and final wet sanding are far more important than the gun used.




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