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Author Topic: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch  (Read 65721 times)

Offline JustinLonghorn

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #60 on: Feb 17, 2012, 12:58:02 »
She looks fantastic, mate.
I'm going to eat your brains and gain your knowledge.

Into The Sunset, CB750 build

TT500 the Animal

Offline Swagger

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #61 on: Feb 17, 2012, 13:41:17 »
Loek, that looks great...I hate you! hahaha (joking mate!)

I'm not doing a conversion at the moment but I've done some before using the Megasquirt controller in a couple of cars. As for differences in power delivery, oh my it's a completely different experience.

Before even adjusting the maps (both fuel and ignition) simply the default basic maps I noted that the car started very crisply and the idle was stone steady. Again, before adjusting the maps, the throttle response was notably improved over the previous carburetor system. After a long afternoon on the dyno playing with the mapping we ended up with around 30ft-lb over stock output from a more or less stock 2.4l Toyota 22r.

The Neon on the other hand netted something more like 60ftlb from a 2l with loads of work. It's ported, has a pretty crazy cam, high compression pistons and a very good ignition. I changed from a 49mm throttle body to a 70mm in a fabricated plenum and a merged header with 1.5"x36" primaries.

Basically the more work you do to the engine the more you'll get out of the EFI. In addition to simply better running and more output the 'nature' of the engine changed. I raised the rev limiter to 9000rpm, added traction control in the first 3 gears; 2000lb front wheel drive cars with 200ftlb spin the tires a lot haha. It also allowed me to totally cut fuel on decel which actually netted me a couple mpg improvement too! Other things you can do with the myriad of outputs; multi-stage shift lights, window switching for things like NO2, boost control for turbos and superchargers.

The 'MicroSquirt' unit is more suited to bikes, and like the Mega is totally open source meaning you can tweek the unit to do almost anything you need on a bike. Very cool! I think it's just got less outputs and a few less features due to smaller packaging.

This is the plan for my 920 engine (at the moment)
-Crank, rods, cylinders and heads from a V-star 1100: Lighter than the 920 crank by 6lbs, before any lightening work! The rods have been verified to be stronger than our earlier pieces. The combustion chambers are slightly updated though I'm tempted to weld them up and remachine for a more bathtub shape, the ports are updated and are a great starting point for my port work and the cooling fins are much larger on the V-star parts too.

-11 to 1 compression JE pistons with slip coating on the skirts and ceramic domes. If i can get the combustion chambers and ports clean enough I'll have them ceramic coated too.

-I'm looking at several cam options but haven't settled yet on the grind. Ultimately I'll rework the initial static compression of the pistons (by machining the domes) to suit the cams.

-Since I'll have control of the ignition mapping, the actual ignition driver can simply be a simple powerful system. I'll likely use coil on plug system with the appropriate voltage drivers triggered by the EFI controller.

-50mm throttle bodies from a Buell something or other, though I've also got a set from a TL1000r and a Honda 996.

-2 into 1 exhaust with 45mm x~32" primaries and a 60mm collector. My routing choices all require pipe wrap which I'm fine with as I'll be able to laugh at the plods who will gripe. haha.

So...more than you asked for but I hope it helps...

In short, EFI is really hard to beat.
.....there's no way that little rice cooker is going 100m/h when the work need to get up to those speeds includes a big fuck off fairing shaped like a giant cock. ~Staffy

Weiner tetanus is nothing to scoff at. ~JustinLonghorn

Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #62 on: Feb 17, 2012, 13:54:59 »
Loekm -

Wonderful, thank you very much for the bearing information, my mind is at ease!

I'm not familiar with the TR1 engine, but it looks remarkably similar to the Virago (xv750) save for the chain drive. What was your motivation for using the engine aside from the low end torque of a v-twin?

Looks great, keep it up!

Offline Swagger

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #63 on: Feb 17, 2012, 14:52:27 »
Maybe you can't port but I can.

I will run whatever throttle bodies suit the end result of my particular engine development, to the point of machining my own if need dictate.
.....there's no way that little rice cooker is going 100m/h when the work need to get up to those speeds includes a big fuck off fairing shaped like a giant cock. ~Staffy

Weiner tetanus is nothing to scoff at. ~JustinLonghorn

Offline Staffy

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #64 on: Feb 17, 2012, 15:52:44 »
Swivel, the size and makeup of the head doesn't matter.  There are gains to be had with EFI due to it's superior mixing ability.  It gives real time adjustments to the air fuel ratio based on situations happening inside the engine and atmospheric inconsistencies.  Carbys are set and run.
Anything else you throw into the argument is invalid.  Put simply, for efficiency of air fuel mix ratios accross all temperature and atmospheric variables, carbys just cannot compete with EFI.
And for the record, nowhere did Swagger say to use "massive" throttle bodies.  I read from what he said that they should be balanced to whatever engine modifications are performed... or maybe that's just me....

Offline Staffy

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #65 on: Feb 17, 2012, 16:13:42 »
  • I do hope you give better attention do detail with your bikes than you do replying to a thread as it was I, not Swagger who you were quoting.
  • I am not going to continue to hijack this good man's thread over a debate about something as trivial as whether blue cheese or gouda is better.  This is especially not going to happen if you choose to cherrypick quotes you don't like without looking at them contextually.

Good day, sir.

/hijack

Offline loekm

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #66 on: Feb 17, 2012, 17:17:46 »
Good evening gentlemen,

Hhmmmm... There is a lot to be discussed about the EFI stuff, that's for sure. My opinion is that it's worth a special thread on this forum 8). But thanks for the info all of you! I'll try and read myself into it and start the thread when ready to go!

Back to buisiness!

@Swagger:
Your plan sounds wicked! I'm not going that far for sure, I'll leave the engine stock and get the EFI running first, maybe XV750 heads (more compression) later on. I'm planning a 40mm exhaust  system on this engine, so carbs need some tweeks for sure. But carbs are all black magic to me so gonna trust the motorcycle shop in this one (the guy runs a classic racing team, and has a dyno ;)). The EFI system is going on the spare engine that I'm using now to build the frame. If the EFI bumps the horses a bit I'm totally happy, a bit better gasresponse is what I'm aiming for.

@Coopersmithingco:
Nice! happy to answer your question. The sheet I posted is from the SKF website, when you register there, you can download all this info and all the bearings directly in CAD. It helped me a lot for sure.

About the TR1 engine. It is the same thing as the XV750 you mentioned. Only chain drive instead of shaft and 981cc instead of 750. I choose thisone becaus I like the character of a twin. I looked into a lot of engine options, and thisone came out on top. It,s quite cheap (spare engine with blown head gasket 35), has reasonable power, chain drive, air cooled and I like the looks. Only disadvantage.... IT WEIGHS A MILLION POUNDS :o

@Swivel:
Thanks for watching this close! The angle of the picture is a bit strange when i look at it again. But the wheelbase is right (+/- 30mm). Good remark about the ride height, the wheels are in this position when the suspension is totally stretched... when the bike is on it's wheels it will be lower en when I'm on even lower. But because i'm quite tall (1,92m) a bit of ride height is OK :)

About the engine position... I planned it this way (but i'ts a bit of a gamble) because the engine weighs roughly the same as I do. So I hope weight distribution will be OK when finished. I'll keep you informed :)

@Staffy:
I'm planning throttle boddies of a BMW GS-something. that kind of engine has sort of the same character. Big displacement, relative low power output, MASSIVE torque. And the goods are for sale everywhere.

Phew... that's it for now, thanks again for all the comments.

Best regards,

Loek

Offline Swagger

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #67 on: Feb 17, 2012, 17:35:51 »
Apologies to Loek for adding to the pointless clutter.
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2012, 18:32:29 by Swagger »
.....there's no way that little rice cooker is going 100m/h when the work need to get up to those speeds includes a big fuck off fairing shaped like a giant cock. ~Staffy

Weiner tetanus is nothing to scoff at. ~JustinLonghorn

Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #68 on: Feb 17, 2012, 18:16:20 »
Loekm,

Do you know the weight of that engine? I'm looking for a powerplant to go with a superlight spine frame I've been designing for some time now. It has a few similar elements to the Egli in that it gets a majority of the strength from the backbone. Here's a cross-section of the tubing I'm using: http://www.coopersmithingco.com/quick/tubingstraight.jpg

I'm looking at the total weight of the frame to be 18lbs (8.16kg) or less, but I won't know for sure until the prototype is finished (I don't have CAD). By the way, what size of tubing are you using for the backbone and what wall thickness?

Thanks again!


Offline beachcomber

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Re: EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch
« Reply #69 on: Feb 17, 2012, 18:40:41 »
Loek - still in awe of your skills and facilities  8) - however................

I've seen ref: to the fitting of 750 heads several times now - the quoted reason "to raise compression".

That I can understand, but why trade off for the significantly smaller valves in the 750 heads ? Especially if you are going to use larger bore pipes. Surely simply skimming the heads 10 thou or so will give you the desired raise in CR whilst retaining larger valves ? The Bob Works bike quoted a CR of 10:1 with a 10thou skim. Convince me !! ;)

I'm afraid I'm a complete Luddite when it comes to anything modern - PC's, mobile phones, ...........fuel injection. And even though I have seen for myself the advantages FI can bring, I don't have the will to set about learning a whole new skill.

You guys who have the ability to simply "plug in a lap top" and play any tune you want is way beyond me. 
"if at first you don't succeed, you've already been a failure once"

" we're not going back to the sixties - we never left "

"yep, nostalgia ain't what it used to be"

"I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure"