CB360 - Clean and simple

CADed up a design for a new front axle to fit the GSXR forks and CB360 wheel.
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that works. What you going to make it out of?
'Normal' stainless steel work hardens and can snap.
The right side 'nut' is almost the same as I made but used just a spacer, ('U' shaped tube with 15mm hole so axle became larger diameter on end but couldn't 'pull through') on left with a Suzuki Katana axle (it's 15mm but much longer)
 
crazypj said:
that works. What you going to make it out of?
'Normal' stainless steel work hardens and can snap.
The right side 'nut' is almost the same as I made but used just a spacer, ('U' shaped tube with 15mm hole so axle became larger diameter on end but couldn't 'pull through') on left with a Suzuki Katana axle (it's 15mm but much longer)

I think 4130 chromoly. This may not be the final design, I still need to figure out the brake mount and may just leave part of it larger on one side rather than using a removable spacer. I figure I might regret that if I want to change wheels but realistically if I wanted to change wheels I'd likely have to change the brake mount and (possibly) the axle diameter anyway.
 
Got the first iteration put together and in place. Will definitely need to shorten the nut side and reduce the diameter on the end so I don't need a spacer on that side.

Excuse the middle, I tried to print the threads a little too thin so they didn't come out and I had to cut them off.

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Not sure why you're going through all that effort to keep a 15mm axle. There's a reason they make them thicker now. 25mm is much stiffer and handles much better. Besides, for just short of $11 you have your wheel fitted. You should be replacing the wheel bearing anyway.

http://www.vxb.com/6205-Z-Double-Bore-Dia-25mm-OD-52mm-Width-15mm-p/6205-Z.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjwp-S6BRDj4Z7z2IWUhG8SJAAbqbF3wHtU5yK8xx8RJKkUCqLfm9iOjE6_QX_K5jg3LcSwNxoCjCjw_wcB

or here

http://www.shopsuperdaves.com/all-balls-all-balls-individual-wheel-bearing--seals-detail.htm?productid=8722851

Then, if you go to a CB750 hub, you can match the disc bolt pattern to an FZR and just run spacers with the same bolt pattern. They're already set up for dual disc, where the 360 is single disc.
 
CB750 uses 15 or 17mm axle?
Hollow axle for a Yamaha (25mm) is around $100.00 new
 
I'm confused, I can't see how your axle works.

What is the function of the thread in the middle that doesn't make contact with anything?
Am I missing something? :p
 
crazypj said:
CB750 uses 15 or 17mm axle?
Hollow axle for a Yamaha (25mm) is around $100.00 new
You change out the bearings and center sleeve to 25mm to match the GSXR axle. Then have the extra benefit of a rotor bolt pattern with two modern floating disc options- YZF600r and Ducati. Not sure how the Yamaha hollow axle plays into this. The swap would be similar to what I did on a GL for a VZ front end. If you use a GL wheel, then you get the aluminum hoop. But a GL bearing is a different OD, i believe...

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japstar said:
I'm confused, I can't see how your axle works.

What is the function of the thread in the middle that doesn't make contact with anything?
Am I missing something? :p

Yep, your missing POC (proof of concept) ;)
 
crazypj said:
Yep, your missing POC (proof of concept) ;)
Well hell, I'm not understanding the term "proof of concept" completely :-\
Even if I searched google for an explanation in dutch, I couldn't understand quite. (kinda feel like a idiot, questioning what I am doing in engineering college :p )

I'm just really curious of the function of part A and B in the attached picture. I thought the project owner was going to fabricate and axle that bolted into the cylinder that was clamped in the right fork leg (left side of the picture)

EDIT:
Oh wait, the concept is to get bolt the two piece axle together in the midle of the axle assembly? But the part B thread had a wrong dimension?

If the above is the case, I would question if it is was a wise decisoin to to place the bolt-in connection in the middle. Wouldn't that compromise the strenght as oposed to the bolted bonnection being on one end of the axle? (just thinking out loud here)
 

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I'm pretty sure it will compromise axle having thread in the middle
The concept seems sound as each bearing will put axle in shear but the singe shear will tend to make the center flex (I think thats right?)
Haven't looked at shear for over 40yrs, last time was to put a BSA wheel into a Royal Enfield,
I made a couple of axles, still have one laying around somewhere
Axle was capable of around 100 tons shear on each bearing (I think about 3/4" dia, reduced to 5/8" on ends)
Oh, btw, the Yamaha axle reference was because it's the only one I ever priced as a replacement
 
Sorry for the confusion.

Proof of concept is confirming that something will work based on information you care about and not worrying about aspects that wouldn't be in the final design. In this case I'm concerned with making an axle that can fit the forks and the wheel, how the axle is held together in testing doesn't matter.

This is just a mock up and the threads in the middle are just because my printer isn't big enough to print the whole axle length at once so I needed a way to connect the pieces. I also put round stock as the core so I can put some weight on it and roll it around without it breaking. The real one will be solid all the way through and work like a regular axle with a nut side and bolt side.

Here are the pieces being printed.
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A big part of the reason for doing this is to be able to take accurate measurements for the rotor location, spacers, etc.


deviant said:
Not sure why you're going through all that effort to keep a 15mm axle. There's a reason they make them thicker now. 25mm is much stiffer and handles much better. Besides, for just short of $11 you have your wheel fitted. You should be replacing the wheel bearing anyway.

http://www.vxb.com/6205-Z-Double-Bore-Dia-25mm-OD-52mm-Width-15mm-p/6205-Z.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjwp-S6BRDj4Z7z2IWUhG8SJAAbqbF3wHtU5yK8xx8RJKkUCqLfm9iOjE6_QX_K5jg3LcSwNxoCjCjw_wcB

or here

http://www.shopsuperdaves.com/all-balls-all-balls-individual-wheel-bearing--seals-detail.htm?productid=8722851

Then, if you go to a CB750 hub, you can match the disc bolt pattern to an FZR and just run spacers with the same bolt pattern. They're already set up for dual disc, where the 360 is single disc.

Thanks for the info! I've been debating between keeping the 15mm axle or using the 25mm one.

I haven't been able to find the answer to the question of if I switched out the bearings for a 25mm axle in the stock hub, will I need to drill out the center of the hub to make room for the larger axle and center spacer? Or is the hub hollow enough that they will fit with just new bearings?

Some of my reasons for keeping the 15mm axle are that I will need to have spacers made anyway for the 25mm one, I still have to custom mount the rotor regardless of the wheel/axle choice, and I think it would be nice to keep the original speedometer sender and would be one less thing to have to figure out. I also like the look of the single rotor for this bike. For this build and my intended riding style, 2 rotors would probably be overkill. And for the same reason, I'm less concerned the axle stiffness will be the bottle neck in the riding performance. I'm going for more of a fun cruise around town bike than something to take to the track (I have the SV650 for the go fast fun).

At this point I don't think I want to re-lace the front wheel so I'd rather not swap hubs. But once I can ride it around and have an itch to do something else, I'll keep in mind to upgrade the front wheel and axle.
 
tnum said:
Sorry for the confusion.

Proof of concept is confirming that something will work based on information you care about and not worrying about aspects that wouldn't be in the final design. In this case I'm concerned with making an axle that can fit the forks and the wheel, how the axle is held together in testing doesn't matter.

This is just a mock up and the threads in the middle are just because my printer isn't big enough to print the whole axle length at once so I needed a way to connect the pieces. I also put round stock as the core so I can put some weight on it and roll it around without it breaking. The real one will be solid all the way through and work like a regular axle with a nut side and bolt side.
Thanks for the explanation, another handy term added to my foreign language vocabulary. :D

I didn't realize it was a 3D printed mockup. Nice tool indeed for predesigning all your custom parts.

And for the axle upgrade to 25mm: I wouldn't worry about it to much if you keep the 15 mm.
As you said, you spare yourself from all the extra trouble of customizing your speedo pickup, hub dimensions...
And I don't think you will feel a big difference when it comes to handling based on your stated riding skills. Hell, I think 90% of the forum wouldn't experience as their speed limiting factor.

Just save yourself the trouble/ money / extra time and use the 15 mm. ;)
 
tnum said:
Thanks for the info! I've been debating between keeping the 15mm axle or using the 25mm one.

I haven't been able to find the answer to the question of if I switched out the bearings for a 25mm axle in the stock hub, will I need to drill out the center of the hub to make room for the larger axle and center spacer? Or is the hub hollow enough that they will fit with just new bearings?

This is one thing I can't remember with the 360. PJ would know. On the GL, there's a spacer/sleeve inside the hub with two retainers (one at each end). The hub is otherwise open. I bored my sleeve to accept a larger diameter axle, but it's also a very basic thing to make too. Someone like McMaster-Carr might actually have the right size already in stock.

tnum said:
Some of my reasons for keeping the 15mm axle are that I will need to have spacers made anyway for the 25mm one, I still have to custom mount the rotor regardless of the wheel/axle choice, and I think it would be nice to keep the original speedometer sender and would be one less thing to have to figure out. I also like the look of the single rotor for this bike. For this build and my intended riding style, 2 rotors would probably be overkill. And for the same reason, I'm less concerned the axle stiffness will be the bottle neck in the riding performance. I'm going for more of a fun cruise around town bike than something to take to the track (I have the SV650 for the go fast fun).

At this point I don't think I want to re-lace the front wheel so I'd rather not swap hubs. But once I can ride it around and have an itch to do something else, I'll keep in mind to upgrade the front wheel and axle.
If you went with an entire GL wheel, with the aluminum rim (or a CB750 wheel) then a CB500/4 speedo drive is your swap. I agree, no matter what you do you'll be making spacers for the wheels and for the rotors.
 
Printed out the adapter so I could test the fit of everything.

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Basically works perfectly except when I had everything mocked up and spun the wheel, I found that the rotor I got is pretty wildly bent... so now I need to find a new rotor.
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Most of the time it's the heart of the rotor that is bend, not the actual brake disc. So you can search for a worn rotor with a straight heart and put the two good pieces together. Saves a lot of money.
 
4 stroker said:
Most of the time it's the heart of the rotor that is bend, not the actual brake disc. So you can search for a worn rotor with a straight heart and put the two good pieces together. Saves a lot of money.

Good to know! It looks like that is the case here. How do the two pieces come apart?
 
you have to drill out the buttons and buy something like those: https://www.tpoparts.com/cat093/index.php?route=product/product&path=2&product_id=225 or like i did with my racing pitbike but I wont recommend it on the street: is after you drilled the buttons out, you remove the little spring and press the buttons back together. I tried it and raced with the bike 2 weekends and it seems as they stay together that way.

The link is an just an exmple, maybe in your area you can buy them cheaper or online or ebay or something.
 
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