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Author Topic: 72 CB350 For the Daughter  (Read 16423 times)

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
72 CB350 For the Daughter
« on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:02:52 »
I figured that since I lurk here enough that I might as well make a build thread.  This isn't my first build and what I do certainly won't be ground breaking on this build, but hopefully you all will like it.

Since this build is for my daughter she will have some input into how things go.  I am funding the build, but once it is all done she will get a loan from the bank and pay me back.  She is young and purchasing a relatively inexpensive vehicle on a loan will allow her to make the payments and build her credit.

My 74 CB750.


My wife's 72 CB350.



Alright onto the good stuff.



So this is the starting platform. It didn't come with a title, but I have already rectified that with VA and I have a clean title in hand. The paint isn't nearly as good as it appears. The white stripes were painted by hand and in a lot of spots you can tell. The tank has been lined and the cross over tubes are clogged because of that. Not sure if there are pin holes or what, but I guess I will find out when I pour some MEK in the tank and go to town shaking the crap out of it.
I don't want to do spokes on this one. There is a guy that works next door to me that built a CB400A that needed some carb work done to one of his other bikes so I traded that along with some cash for a 78 CB400Tii front end, wheels, and swingarm (not sure if I can or will use that).



I picked up a dual piston front caliper and mounting bracket off of an 85 VT1100C for a bit better braking. I also bought a caliper off of an 83 VF750. The caliper is the same, but the mounting bracket is different. I will use whichever caliper is in better overall condition and the bracket off of the VT1100C.

85 VT


83 VF (right center)


I took both of the calipers apart to inspect, do a little bit of cleaning, and get an overall consensus of which one was in better condition. Neither caliper was in bad condition, but the 83 VF750 was just a tick better so that is the one I am going to use.

Everything mounted on the fork leg and the wheel mounted. The picture isn't at the best angle, but as far as I can tell I will not have to get a different rotor. Just like on the 750 I will send the rotor off to be ground flat and have some holes drilled in it.
« Last Edit: Sep 07, 2016, 13:51:54 by Harsh »
2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #1 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:08:19 »
Well there was a fairly lengthy lull between getting the stuff above and moving forward.  I retired from the Navy and had to get a real job.  I guess that is the trials of life.

As I pulled it out of storage. I pulled the tank and seat prior to putting it under cover. This one is going to be a fair amount of work. It is in worse shape than the wife's was. I gave it a few kicks and it turns over and there is compression so that is good.









Engine pulled.


She was a leaker.





Popped the top just to take a quick look inside. Doesn't look too bad.


My daughter only got mad at me once, so that was good. She was trying to use a wrench like a screwdriver and when I got onto her about it telling her all she was going to do was strip the nut she got all huffy. Her issue was that there was a bar in her way and the engine case was directly above and she couldn't get to the nut. I told her to work smarter not harder. Go below the bar to get to the nut. She was trying to loosen the bottom rear bolt that holds the engine to the frame.

Went to pop off the side covers to drain them of any remaining oil...yah not so easy. Instead of a gasket the last person that was in the engine used sealant. It took me an hour using a razor blade to slice through that crap. After I got the vast majority of oil out of the engine I hosed it down with some engine degreaser and am letting it sit overnight. There was so much crap built up where the front sprocket is and inside the points housing it was crazy.




2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline advCo

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Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #2 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:08:25 »
I'm in, and welcome. Haven't seen a 350 with comstars before  ::)
"He broke the mirrors off his Cadillac, 'cause he doesn't like it looking like he looks back."

74 CB360 - Luna - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=63294.0
82 GS550L - Tracker-ish - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=67229.0 - Sold
74 XL350 - The Turd - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=70252.0
Suzuki FA50 "No-Ped" - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=71189.0
73 Suzuki RV125 -http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=73875.0

Offline Maritime

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Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #3 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:10:24 »
Nice start, cool build. looking forward to watching. Gotta love how if it is a Honda part it will probably be easy to make it work on another Honda.
The GL Rebirth: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=68337.0
CX500 Low budget Bobber : http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=43617.0
"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer" -Henry Lawson
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #4 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:10:33 »
With half of the engine apart. I am pretty sure I know why it was leaking. The head bolts were barely tight. I think whoever was in the engine before didn't torque down a thing. One of the bolts that holds the cam gear to the cam was about half way backed off when I went to remove it. You can actually see the head of the bolt in the picture I posted earlier looking down at the cam. Even after a good scrub down it is still pretty filthy. It is going to require A LOT of degreaser and elbow grease to get it ready for future work.







Cases split in half. My daughter missed out since she found it more important to go to the mall than to work with me. It was a a bit dirty inside and I keep finding little pieces of the gasket maker crap inside the engine. I am going to have to go over the pieces very well to make sure I get all of that crap removed. I would hate to get everything back together only to have a piece of that crap block an oil passage. There was a bunch of it in the centrifugal oil filter.

There is still lots of scrubbing inside and out that needs to be accomplished before I can even think about doing any media blasting.

Thick sludge at the bottom.



When I was removing the windage tray one of the screws stripped out. After I drilled and cut most of he hear away and was using a cold chisel to remove the remaining part the boss/post that the screw goes into snapped off. It made a clean brake at the bottom of the case so no harm no foul. There are only two screws and three "riveted pieces. I remove the riveted pieces and drill/tap them for screws anyways so there will be plenty of support.


Fitted the rear comstar wheel. The 350 swingarm is a fair bit narrower than the 400. As such the spacers for the 400 are longer. I first tried to use the stock spacers for the 350, but the nut would bottom out on the axle before things were tight. I swapped the spacer on the sprocket side which was about 1/4" longer which looked to be about what I needed. Torqued everything down and the wheel looks pretty well centered. I can do some measurements to see if the wheel is centered, but the sprockets also have to line up which I won't know until I get the motor back in.

Well some quick measurements and a plumb bob tell me the wheel isn't centered. It is about 3/16" off. I have a long piece of the spacer material, but I don't have the equipment to cut it and ensure the ends stay square. I am not going to cut anything until I ensure the sprockets align though. Which may be another problem. I am having trouble finding someone that makes a 520 rear sprocket. I found them for the 750 and 350, but can't seem to locate one for the 400. The sprockets are almost identical between the 350 and 400. The only difference between them is the distance away from center the mounting bolts are. The 400 is not quite 1/8" further out from center.

Just received a call from Sprocket Specialists who can make it. The T1 sprocket, which they have in stock, has the same dimensions I provided. It just don't use the center steel spacer ring that the T2 does. To keep everything copacetic with mounting all they said they would have to do was cut the teeth and a bit below where the chain rides down to 520. Which is pretty much what I thought. Cost is only an additional $10.

2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #5 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:20:44 »
So I was doing some cleaning to the main wiring harness and connectors last night and forgot to post about it. I remembered about the cable that runs from the starter solenoid to the starter. When we took the engine out there was a big glob of caulk on it. I decided to pull off the glob and see what was underneath. Looks like I will be getting a new cable.








Now onto the big stuff. I tried to document it as I went along to make an informative post on the CB boards. There was another guy who put comstars on his 350 and said they fit up just fine. However, based on my findings his wheel is not centered. Reading through his other posts he was not the most mechanically inclined fellow so he probably just eyeballed it and thought he was good. Yah that **** doesn't work for me.

Leveled the bike, took some measurements, and found the center of the frame. Made a mark and tied my plumb bob to it.
Stock wheel shows to be centered in the frame.






With the comstar wheel on using the 350 spacers and the axle nut tightened until it bottoms out on the axle there is a gap.



It was hard to get in there and get a truly accurate measurement, but it was real close to 1/8". So I stacked a couple of washers I had and fit the wheel again. This time with good results. The axle nut tightened fully and the wheel was centered.





Now for the big test. Do the sprockets line up? I got my trusty straight edge and laid it next to both sprockets. There are no gaps between the sprockets and straight edge and the wheel is centered. I am calling this a success. Now I just need to get one of the longer spacers I have cut down to the correct size for my application. By my calculations the spacer size on the right side should be 37mm (mine actually measures 37.25mm)




Removed the mufflers from the head pipes. What a chore that was. The were rusted in place pretty damn good. I have had them hanging with some PB blaster squirted in the joint for a while to help. I think it did on one, but the other took some more drastic measures to separate the muffler from the head pipe.



At some point someone painted the head pipes black. The problem is that just looking at them the paint would scrape off. So I took a wire wheel to them and removed all of the paint. For some reason just about every head pipe I see has the same rust area on the right pipe. The left side is usually OK. I am thinking about having them cerakoted. There is a local place that I am going to contact tomorrow to see what they want to charge.



2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #6 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:25:56 »
Witchcraft and voodoo day. I am going to clean and rebuild the carbs. I bought extra o-rings when I built the wife's bike so I should be able to get these back together today providing the internals are good to go.

When you pop the top this is what you see. Nothing spectacular, just a spring and diaphragm. Those come out fairly easy, but since it has been a while since they were opened you have to be gently with the diaphragm so you don't tear it.



Inside are these parts. I don't really think it is necessary to take it apart, but since I am in there and want to make sure everything is nice and clean so off they go.




Now flip the carb over and pull the float bowl. This is where it usually gets nasty and stinky. Old gas reeks.




Pull the primary and secondary jets. They took some work to get out. The o-rings were damn near welded in there.




Pull the float and bracket for the float need and seat.



At the top you have the float needle and seat. Then below that is the secondary and then the main emulsion tubes. Underneath the black rubber piece is the pilot jet. The emulsion tubes have to be tapped out from the other side even tough it looks like the main can be unscrewed. It doesn't and if you try, you will rip off the tabs. I use a soft wooden dowel to tap them out. Sometimes they don't like to come out very easily, but luckily I didn't have much of an issue. After they are out you just have to inspect the tips carefully to make sure they didn't get damaged during the removal process. Pry up the rubber plug and unscrew the pilot jet.




Everything cleaned and ready for assembly. The emulsion tubes have tiny holes in them. Just about every hole was clogged and the holes in the pilot jet were clogged as well. The main and secondary jets were really restricted as well with built up varnish and gunk.
Unfortunately, I forgot that I had to use one of the o-rings from the extra sets I bought on the wife's bike because I accidentally slung one across the garage when I was installing it. Also, I didn't have any spare o-rings for the idle mixture or the float bowl drain screws so I will have to order those as well. Ideally, I would like to dunk the carb in some Berryman's, but there are two felt washers on each side of the throttle bar that runs through the carb body that will get eaten away from the chemical. So I spray down every hole with some crab cleaner then blow them out. Seems to work pretty well.



I thought I may of had an issue. While I was cleaning the carb bodies I noticed they are not the same carbs. One is a 722A, which is correct for the bike. The other is a 726A, which I have no idea where it is from. They look identical and the only difference I found between them was the main jet size, which could have been changed by a previous owner. I put the correct size main jet back in when I assembled it though. Additionally, I see a lot of references that group the two together.

One of the CB gurus replied to me and said I should be good to go. Honda put a new number on the replacement carbs to differentiate them, but they are the same.
2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #7 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:35:53 »
Tried my hand at parkerizing. This is the first batch I did. I think it turned out pretty damn good. I really think (hope) the bolts are going to pop against the silver lower half of the engine even if all you will see is the head of the bolt.



Got a little blasting done

Inside of fender before.




All the parts.




I was doing some looking over the frame to hit the couple of spots I missed with the blasting. When I noticed a few holes in the frame. This is common since it is the lowest part of the frame. I am not going to worry about it sincve the frame is still structurally sound. The holes will allow water to drain out if it gets in there.



Cleaned and stripped the paint off of the wheels. The outside of the rear wheel was already done, but the inside wasn't. The front needed a complete stripping. I found out why they were painted (crappily) in the first place. The front had started to rust. I am not sure if I want to try and polish the outside lip portion and just have the spoke portion powder coated. I know it will be A LOT more work to do that and to be honest I don't know if it will be worth it. Let me tell you, scrubbing that paint off with acetone and 0000 steel wool sucks. I am planning on painting the plastic caps that cover the rivets whatever the accent color is for a little added pop.






I have been trying to get my daughter to think about colors. She sent me the below picture of a Norton Commando she liked the color of. However, as soon as I saw the pic I didn't think it was going to be a color she really liked. The picture she sent me was from a magazine article and the color wasn't a true representation. I found a picture of it on the interwebs and she was like ehh. I have been thinking about a light blue or green. I like the Leopard Racing Teams blue, the Motorex blue/green (there appears to be two slightly different colors), and the Petronas blue/green. I think a cream accent color would go very well with any of them. Although I can't wrap my head around how or where to put the accent colors. I also think the frame should be colored, but my daughter likes the satin black frame like I did on the wife's bike. Although matching the powder coat and paint to any of the colors would probably prove to be difficult. The issue is that if I suggest a color she will instantly not like it, but she has no real sense of how things will look or go together. I also don't know if I want to powder coat the forks are try and sand them down a little bit and leave then natural.






So my daughter wrote me last night (she is at sea unloading the ammunition from the ship). She liked the Leopard Racing color, but not the rest I sent her. I saw a commercial and told her to look up the cars. She is supposed to get back Friday so Saturday we are planning on going to a dealership and look at the colors in person.



A dealership visit was conducted and a color has been chosen.


I started removing the crappy tank liner. I threw in 20 nuts along with some MEK and went to sloshing it around. Got the vast majority of it removed, but the crossover tubes were still clogged. I decided to let it sit overnight to hopefully slowly eat away at the liner. When I checked it this evening they were still clogged, but when I stuck a piece of copper wire in the holes it was a little soft. So a few blast from the compressor was in order. After a couple blasts in each tube there was a thunk and air was flowing cleanly through. I will do one more shake and shimmy tomorrow to remove that last bit of residual liner.

I also talked to my buddy that has done my previous powder coating and he is still doing some small stuff at his house. I might do all the big stuff at the industrial facility to save a bit of money and leave the smaller colored (everything other than black) stuff to him.

So I just can't leave things alone. I was so impressed how the sisal mop cleaned up the fork lowers I decided to give it a try to the wheels. First I needed to remove the tires. I swung up to Cycle Gear, but they wanted $30 to just pull them off and I had to take the old tires with me. Never mind, I will do it myself...so I did. It took a little bit to figure out how to position the wheel in order to get into some of the nooks, but I figured it out. Unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to do the inner lip unless I figure out another way to position the wheel against the mop because the shank on the buffer makes contact with the wheel legs. So maybe just the outer lip will be shiny. I am good with that.

You can see the part I have polished and the part I have not.




This is all I have left to do on the wheels.  Once that little bit around each leg is done they will be ready to be taped off and bead blasted in prep for powder coat.




Got the forks together. It took me two trips to Cycle Gear though. The first time was to get some new crush washers for the bottom bolt that holds piston in. They didn't have any that fit so I walked over to the Suzuki dealership next door and they gave me the two I needed.  The second time was because I thought I had more fork oil in the jug than I did. They aren't perfect, but I didn't really want them to be. They came out a bit shinier than I wanted as well.



I don't know why I didn't do this earlier, but I measured the two front ends (350 and 400). I got the 400 based on others saying they just bolted them on and everything was great. The set from the 400 are longer right at 1.75" longer so I don't see how people didn't notice the difference. You can't just raise them through the triples because the top cap bolt on the forks is what keeps the triple on. The top triple isn't a pinch style like we are accustomed to seeing.

Two ides jumped into my head. Raise them through the triples and use a spacer to take of the difference. Put a set of clipons in there. Depending on the width clipon bracket I may have to add a shim or two or I may have to mill a little bit off of it. Not sure how the clipons would look though.

Using the 400 top triple is out. I forgot that the hole for the fork tubes is smaller than the tubes themselves. The fork tubes sit on the underside of the triple and the fork caps secure everything together. The hole in the triple is 29mm and the forks are 33mm. Even if I drill out the holes in the triple so the fork tubes slide through there will be nothing to secure everything together because the 400 triple does not pinch against the fork tubes.

So I put the 350 triples on the tubes and raised the tubes the approximate amount. I was worried that the width of the triples might be different so fitting the wheel could be an issue. Slid the 400 triple over the top of the 350 triple and they appeared to be the same. However, to make sure I mounted the wheel up. Then added set of clipons to get a guestimate of how it might look. I used my spare set from the Triumph which are for 50mm forks, but it might not look too bad with a properly sized set.









There is a little bit of space to work with so I will have to be very selective in the set of clipons I pick out.




Found these locally on CL for a good price. The thickness of the wall might be an issue, but I can bring my spare triple to physically see if they will sit flush.


« Last Edit: Sep 07, 2016, 14:05:35 by Harsh »
2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #8 on: Sep 07, 2016, 13:39:46 »
Picked up the clipons from the local guy today. I did a bit of mock up to give you all a bit of visual reference. There is a plan in place to make them fit. Once assembled I noticed a couple of issues in regards to the gauges. The fork tubes will hit the gauges when they are extended through the triple and with the clipons installed they interfere with the gauges. The first solution that jumps in my head would be to make a small bracket out of some flat stock to extend them out a bit.

With the gauges mounted.








Luckily I have a good buddy that is a machinist for Chrysler in their R&D dept.  He is going to mill out the pocket so the clip-ons will sit flush.  He also said that he wants to make a custom triple for me.  I wasn't going to turn down an offer like that.  So right now there is a box of parts headed his way.
2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #9 on: Sep 07, 2016, 14:01:01 »
I'm in, and welcome. Haven't seen a 350 with comstars before  ::)

Thanks for the welcome.  Although I am not sure how to take the ::) though.  Is that good or a bad thing?  I didn't want to another spoked bike and for ease of keeping things clean since I am sure my daughter won't put in the time it takes to clean a spoked wheel I opted for the comstars.


Nice start, cool build. looking forward to watching. Gotta love how if it is a Honda part it will probably be easy to make it work on another Honda.

That does make it nice.  Although I think there will be a few Suzuki parts on it at some point since I have them in my bucket of parts.

2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Maritime

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Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #10 on: Sep 07, 2016, 14:07:09 »
Cool, use whatever parts you need to get it done that's what we do here. I am guessing from the speed of the posts you have been at this a while and you are just getting it caught up to now. that's great for us ADD folks LOL.
The GL Rebirth: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=68337.0
CX500 Low budget Bobber : http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=43617.0
"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer" -Henry Lawson
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #11 on: Sep 07, 2016, 14:14:48 »
Yah I have been working on it in earnest since the middle of July.
2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline advCo

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Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #12 on: Sep 07, 2016, 14:15:13 »
Thanks for the welcome.  Although I am not sure how to take the ::) though.  Is that good or a bad thing?  I didn't want to another spoked bike and for ease of keeping things clean since I am sure my daughter won't put in the time it takes to clean a spoked wheel I opted for the comstars.

Ha, I am pretty neutral on the Comstars, its your bike. I personally like the spoked look, but they are a pain in the arse and I regret it every time I refurbish a spoked wheel, so you've got the right idea there.  ;D
"He broke the mirrors off his Cadillac, 'cause he doesn't like it looking like he looks back."

74 CB360 - Luna - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=63294.0
82 GS550L - Tracker-ish - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=67229.0 - Sold
74 XL350 - The Turd - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=70252.0
Suzuki FA50 "No-Ped" - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=71189.0
73 Suzuki RV125 -http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=73875.0

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #13 on: Sep 07, 2016, 20:11:34 »
I prefer the look of a spoked wheel as well, but for what I paid ($40) for the 400 front & rear end and the ease of cleaning the comstars I couldn't pass them up. 
2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350

Offline Harsh

  • Posts: 170
Re: 72 CB350 For the Daughter
« Reply #14 on: Sep 09, 2016, 11:51:45 »
Been trying to figure out the wiring. I don't know why, but it kicks my butt every time. Which is sad since I am an electronics guy. I am not going to use the stock controls on this bike. I am going to use a set from a 2008 Suzuki SV650.

I made a post in the Simplified Wiring Diagrams thread about it.  There are just some things that are throwing me off about the wiring.
2014 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Daytona 675 - Track Bike
1974 Honda CB750 Cafe
1972 (x2) Honda CB350