Project "walrus" Yam XS 750

Don Carlos,

have a look at your and David's adjuster. You owe me a pint. Because the place where the fault lives, is pretty obvious now. 8)
 
Re: Project "walrus" Yam XS 750

Thanks for the pics tim!

Just had some and removed the side cover of the XS and remounted the assembly 180 degrees (base part with the steel balls).
Then remounted.
Doesnt look like it makes a big difference.
Now i'm confused :)
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Hi Ryan
Yep you have also confused me ;D
From the attached photo, has this change meant that you are going to get more rotation into the actuator? About 4-5mm on the cable end?
Put it together and see if the clutch now releases, cannot do any harm.
 

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Hi Ryan
Found the document I was after, it was a service supplement for the 2D model. Not sure if it applies to your bike, but it might!
Cheers
Tim
 

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XS750AU said:
Hi Ryan
Found the document I was after, it was a service supplement for the 2D model. Not sure if it applies to your bike, but it might!
Cheers
Tim
Hey tim!

Could you please eloborate I don't really get it.
Aren't all friction plates cork lined?

Tried if the clutch releases now...no success even with the flipped actuation,i still cannot roll the bike forward with no resistance....
Tried to screw the mechanism screw as far as possible in (clutch was then impossible to pull) and even then it was the same...

Thanks!
 
Ryan check a parts fiche as some clutches have one different friction plate from all the rest and it needs to go in the right place or the clutch won't work. It should look slightly different and should have a different part number from the other plates.

Edit:

Looks like you don't have a special plate, if your 750 is a 79 at least. so the last highlighted comment may just mean make sure the last plate in the stack is a friction plate, not the other. the Fiche XS750AU posted is a little different from the one I looked up on BB. it looks to have a special plate but I think that is the XS850 fiche. Not sure but the stack starts and ends with friction plates.
 
Take the clutch side cover off so you can see the operation of the clutch. Put the throw out mechanism back together and put the cover and cable back on the bike. You need to understand how the adjuster works. The center screw is the actual adjuster and its purpose is to adjust the distance between the throw out mechanism and the rod that actually pushes the pressure plate which disengages the clutch by relieving the spring pressure. The adjuster is needed to make up differences in manufacturing tolerances which stack up from one side of the engine to the other. There needs to be a slight bit of space between the adjuster screw and the push rod so that zero pressure is applied when the lever is not pulled. So the screw should spin freely until the mechanism touches the push rod at which time you can still screw it in, but then you would be partially engaging the clutch. So screw it in until it touches and then back it out a bit to create clearance and lock it down with the nut. If all is well with the throw out mechanism, you should see the pressure plate compress the clutch springs just like your video when you pull in the lever. If you do not see this motion, you can check the throw out mechanism by taking off the pressure plate and placing a small screwdriver or punch against the end of the now exposed ball (which should be at the pressure plate end of the clutch push rod) and pulling in the clutch lever. You should see a few mm of motion like in your video. If you see that the throw out mechanism works but does not expand the clutch pack, the ball and push rod length is too short or the clutch pack is too far away for some reason. Unless the push rod got swapped for a too short one somehow, that length is fixed so look to see the clutch basket has not somehow been spaced too far away from the case for some reason - incorrect assembly maybe. If you see little or no motion of the pressure plate and/or the lever is super hard or can not be pulled in correctly, check that there is not an extra clutch plate in the stack or that it is not too thick. When this happens, there is not enough travel available to the pressure plate before the springs bind. This is not that uncommon when people replace their clutches and interchange plates of mixed manufacture, forget how many plates go where, or the aftermarket plates are too thick. There is no adjustment for the clutch itself except by replacing/exchanging parts. If you do see this obvious motion when you pull the lever (engage the clutch), and the driven shaft does not spin fairly freely, likely there is trouble with the plates, basket or pressure plate. Most clutches have all the friction (cork) plates identical and all the drive (steel) plates identical. Not much can go wrong with the friction plates unless they get fried, but the steel plates can get warped or bent. Take the clutch pack apart and take each plate out and rub both sides around on a piece of #600 sandpaper wet on a pane of glass. You should get scratches on most all the surfaces with very little sanding. If you have obviously bent or deformed plates replace them with flat ones. Bent plates can act like a spring retaining some clamping pressure even when the pressure plate is released and cause the clutch to drag.
 
Re: Project "walrus" Yam XS 750

So I guys.I think I have good news.
Not really ecstatic since I had a lot of hassle so far.
Yesterday,full day of work on the XS.
Completely took apart clutch side and reassembled left ign side and renewed the pushrod seal.
Took the diagram and checked each and every part.
Looks like there was a little parts mix up.
Ran the steelies over some wet sanding paper,will post pics tomorrow (some were bent some not).the low spots were on the 'teeth' side of the steelies.

Didnt want to wait so I put everything back together just to have a look if its working better. and the bike is wayyyy easier to
move in gear when clutched in.
Still a bit heavy in first gear,but maybe thats also the weight which i'm not used to.
Then I adjusted the clutch always alternating with checkig if I have compression on the kickstarter.
I settled on the adjustement of the screw where I juuuust got compression.

When I assembled the clutch into the bottom basket I felt that the steel plates are not easily slipping into place (there are marks,which I already adressed).
I will run the bike not as it is, but I guess I will need to file down the marks and replace steelies.
Does one replace all at the time or just single ones?

Thanks!

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Re: Project "walrus" Yam XS 750

Ryan Stecken said:
Then I adjusted the clutch always alternating with checkig if I have compression on the kickstarter.
I settled on the adjustement of the screw where I juuuust got compression.

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I assume you are talking about the screw and lock nut that adjusts the axial position of the throw out mechanism in relation to the push rod. This in no way is an adjustment for the clutch itself, it only adjusts the location of the throw out mechanism in relation to the clutch. It MUST have ZERO pre load on the clutch itself when the hand lever is free, so it must have at least some clearance. When correctly adjusted, it should not be contacting the push rod at all (in theory, the clearance can be between any of the parts involved, ball inside the throw out mechanism, pushrod, pushrod ball, and pressure plate). If you adjust this with regard to the clutch engagement, i.e. whether the engine is locked to the kick starter, very likely you will have pre load on the clutch which must NOT be there. There needs to be a very small amount of free play in the rotation of the throw out mechanism before it takes up the slack between the the push rod, ball, and pressure plate and starts moving the pressure plate and thereby disengaging the clutch. The clearance is necessary in order to ensure 100% of the spring pressure is used to clamp the clutch assembly together, otherwise the clutch may slip, get hot and suffer damage.
 
Re: Project "walrus" Yam XS 750

Just had a read trough your last post mobius!thanks!really useful info,I will check and re adjust.
When I inserted the steel plates i saw that the surfaces of the clutch inner basket hindered slighlty an easy slip.When I buy new steelies I guess I will need to sand these surfaces slightly.

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Guys I have great news!

Had a bit of time today and took the bike outside and took it for a spin!
The clutch seems to be working fine,no drag,nothing....oh and that sound mmmmm. :)
I readjusted just like mobius suggested.
The only problem I now encountered is that the starter circuit seems to have a problem.
I started the bike and after some time it stalled then I tried to restart and the starter button went dead....
My guess is that any of the ignition cables or generator cables were irritated during working on both sides.
Waited for a few minutes and the buttom worked again...

Also read that the starter button itself can be a mess too....
Where would you guys start searching?

Thank you so much for your support!

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I wonder if it is like the GL1000 starters. When they hit 30 years old they get heat soaked and will only work when the engine is cold. You can rebuild or replace if that is the case. Symptoms are - cold engine, bike fires up fine. ride for 20 mins or more, shut bike off, starter button doesn't work, jumping solenoid doesn't work, let bike cool down and all works again.
 
Ryan Stecken said:
Guys I have great news!

Had a bit of time today and took the bike outside and took it for a spin!
The clutch seems to be working fine,no drag,nothing....oh and that sound mmmmm. :)
I readjusted just like mobius suggested.
The only problem I now encountered is that the starter circuit seems to have a problem.
I started the bike and after some time it stalled then I tried to restart and the starter button went dead....
My guess is that any of the ignition cables or generator cables were irritated during working on both sides.
Waited for a few minutes and the buttom worked again...

Also read that the starter button itself can be a mess too....
Where would you guys start searching?

Thank you so much for your support!

Gesendet von meinem SM-A310F mit Tapatalk

Hi Ryan

Very good news. When you say the starter went dead, was it like the battery was flat and it did not have enough power to crank? Or there was absolutely nothing, dead, nudda!

My 750 starts cold OK with the electric starter (starter clutch needs work) when the engine is stopped after running for some time (hot) the starter cannot turn the motor over, sound just like the Goldwing! let it cool down for 10 minutes and all good and away we go - bloody lucky it has the kick starter. And you get a lot of attention when you kick start a big road bike!!!!

The starter has nothing to do with the ignition or generator circuits. If it is dead, then I would start from the starter, then relay, then starter button. I did have an earth problem with the starter button once, the button is the earth path not the power to the solenoid.
Good work
Tim
 
Rebuilding a starter is fairly easy. IIRC the starter out of a CB900/1100 Bol d'or is a straight swap AND has got more oomph.

Are you sure it wasn't a case of your battery simply collapsing?
 
Hey guys thanks for your help!

The bike first didnt even turn the starter (the starter button was dead) when it was cold.
Then I checked the bike,fuse box etc. nothing suspicious tried again and boom.there must be earth or bad contact gremlin :)!

Later with a warm motor the bike had the same issues then again it worked like before and the starter started the engine flawlessly.

I swapped the grips and moved the controls around on the bars too before i rode it....bad earth?


Am I wrong if you say starter button is earth,is it right that if I take a multimeter and check for the consistency from earth of the starter to the minus of the battery it should read 0? :)
Control has many cables to measure :) help guys!

fec052913dbc29012c34ff1928279536.jpg
 
Hi Ryan

Sounds like the path to earth( - on battery) is NOK.
If you look a the starter solenoid there should be 2 thin gauge wires going to it. One should have a constant 12-13V the other goes up to the starter button. When you push the starter button it completes the circuit to earth. The trouble I have had in the past is the starter button just grounds out on the switch block alloy housing. I have not yet worked out the path back from the switch block to the negative terminal on the battery - remember the handle bars are isolated by the anti-vibration dampeners!!!! Refer attached picture of starter circuit diagram.

If you grab a length of wire and take it from the earth terminal on the solenoid and touch it on the battery negative terminal it should start the bike! If that works it is clear that you have to sort out the earth path for the starter button. If it does not work then look at the solenoid.
 

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Re: Project "walrus" Yam XS 750

Hi Ryan
Red is usually positive and blue would be the earth. You can disconnect the connector and on the bike end connector, check that the red has 12v and blue is 0v.
Good luck.

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hey tim!

Checked my battery voltage on that day it was 12.2Volts,charged the battery and the problem dissappeared.After charging it had 13.8 Volts then again went down to 12.7 Volts...I guess my lead battery is the problem with its fast loss of power.
What kind of battery are you running in your project?
 
Hi Ryan
I thought you bought a new battery? Nothing wrong with a good lead acid battery.
I am using a Motobatt in the XS750.
Planning to get a SSB lithium for the XS896
I am using a SSB lithium in my Husaberg FE550 which works very well and weighs next to nothing.
Hopefully now the battery is charged you will be OK. With the standard wiring there is a very small drain on the battery with the ignition off. If you are not riding regularly you really need to disconnect the battery and trickle charge it.

You were riding it, and it stalled, then would not start!!! Are you sure your charging circuit is working? Are you getting 14V to the battery with the motor going?

I hate electricals - good luck
Tim
 
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