XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork (pics pg 13)
- Thread starter treitz
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treitz
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
I don't have an issue with stock air boxes, and I agree with you, they are engineered to function which is what we all want. But as mentioned I obviously cannot use a stock airbox on this bike due to the suspension setup.
Given your statement about the size of the UNI (going with the largest size), I will probably have to go with the K&N's as the longer UNI's that I have seen will not fit on the middle carb without hitting the shock, but the K&N's appear to be the right size.
I don't have an issue with stock air boxes, and I agree with you, they are engineered to function which is what we all want. But as mentioned I obviously cannot use a stock airbox on this bike due to the suspension setup.
Given your statement about the size of the UNI (going with the largest size), I will probably have to go with the K&N's as the longer UNI's that I have seen will not fit on the middle carb without hitting the shock, but the K&N's appear to be the right size.
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
K & N's will substantially outlast the Uni's in my experience at least. I personally think they get equally grimy and take the same maintenance. I think over time the K&N are cheaper, but they start out very pricey and it seriously pays to shop. Accept no substitutes! No substitute for a well engineered air box, but as a broad generalization Uni's would seem to be a bit friendlier attached directly on CV carbs, though others seem to have more trouble tuning than I have experienced (maybe I am not as picky?). It would seem that moving the filters even a small distance away from the carbs makes a substantial difference. I have built fiberglass inlet manifolds with good results, the idea being to use a very large single filter instead of 2 or 4. Possibly 4 into 2 to get around the shock for your application? Much easier to make than it sounds. Urethane foam, carved/sanded to shape, slightly smaller than what you want to account for the thickness of the composite skin, encapsulate in fiberglass and epoxy resin, dig out foam, sand the rough spots, paint and install. Well, I guess it is a lot compared to slapping filters right on the carbs, but a little care will get a design that provides much smoother air into the carbs, which they will like. You can also cause the filters to be located and angled however your space and imagination dictate, and likely enable you to use very much larger filters than would otherwise be possible, which is the name of the game.
K & N's will substantially outlast the Uni's in my experience at least. I personally think they get equally grimy and take the same maintenance. I think over time the K&N are cheaper, but they start out very pricey and it seriously pays to shop. Accept no substitutes! No substitute for a well engineered air box, but as a broad generalization Uni's would seem to be a bit friendlier attached directly on CV carbs, though others seem to have more trouble tuning than I have experienced (maybe I am not as picky?). It would seem that moving the filters even a small distance away from the carbs makes a substantial difference. I have built fiberglass inlet manifolds with good results, the idea being to use a very large single filter instead of 2 or 4. Possibly 4 into 2 to get around the shock for your application? Much easier to make than it sounds. Urethane foam, carved/sanded to shape, slightly smaller than what you want to account for the thickness of the composite skin, encapsulate in fiberglass and epoxy resin, dig out foam, sand the rough spots, paint and install. Well, I guess it is a lot compared to slapping filters right on the carbs, but a little care will get a design that provides much smoother air into the carbs, which they will like. You can also cause the filters to be located and angled however your space and imagination dictate, and likely enable you to use very much larger filters than would otherwise be possible, which is the name of the game.
BigSherm
Been Around the Block
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
Or, you could just put the filters on the carbs, the way it's been done thousands of times, and move on with the rest of the bike.
Gotta keep marching toward completion!
Putting the filters on the carbs is practically free.
That's what I'd do, and revisit the intake later if I wasn't happy with it.
-Sherm
Or, you could just put the filters on the carbs, the way it's been done thousands of times, and move on with the rest of the bike.
Gotta keep marching toward completion!
Putting the filters on the carbs is practically free.
That's what I'd do, and revisit the intake later if I wasn't happy with it.
-Sherm
MotorbikeBruno
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
Hahaha indeed. I apologize, I was hungry and I didn't have a snickers on hand. Stunning works of art they are
Maritime, those drawings are spot on. I may have to go that route on another ride later in the future but as it was said just above....how much time do you want to spend on the air filter setup. If you can get it to run well with "pods" and you understand carburetor tuning you'll be fine. I've never had a set I couldn't tune with the correct jetting and needle heights along with possibly different needle taper. (even the ghastly cheap-o pods that I had on before reading the cheap pod public announcement) But, I clean and tune carburetors as a side business, so I'm comfortable doing so.
xb33bsa said:stock airboxes are ugly ? SILENCE IGNORAMACE !! ;D the vast majority of stock airboxes are beautiful works of functional design
Hahaha indeed. I apologize, I was hungry and I didn't have a snickers on hand. Stunning works of art they are
Maritime, those drawings are spot on. I may have to go that route on another ride later in the future but as it was said just above....how much time do you want to spend on the air filter setup. If you can get it to run well with "pods" and you understand carburetor tuning you'll be fine. I've never had a set I couldn't tune with the correct jetting and needle heights along with possibly different needle taper. (even the ghastly cheap-o pods that I had on before reading the cheap pod public announcement) But, I clean and tune carburetors as a side business, so I'm comfortable doing so.
Maritime
Over 10,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
Oh me too. I had cheap pods on CV CM400 carbs and I had that bike hauling ass and running great. K&N's are much easier, I have those on the CX and it took way less time, but the fact that the OP may have a clearance issue on the middle carb on this bike is the reason for the airbox idea.
Oh me too. I had cheap pods on CV CM400 carbs and I had that bike hauling ass and running great. K&N's are much easier, I have those on the CX and it took way less time, but the fact that the OP may have a clearance issue on the middle carb on this bike is the reason for the airbox idea.
Maritime
Over 10,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
There is one style that is really impossible because of the 3 jet design and such but my CX has CV's and it runs strong with K&N's. Also the cheap emgo ones block some air passages on some CV's so if you have those and that style carb you will also have headaches but if you know those 2 things, you can get them to work well, even better than with the stock airbox.
datadavid said:
There is one style that is really impossible because of the 3 jet design and such but my CX has CV's and it runs strong with K&N's. Also the cheap emgo ones block some air passages on some CV's so if you have those and that style carb you will also have headaches but if you know those 2 things, you can get them to work well, even better than with the stock airbox.
treitz
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
I had a hell of a time jetting my CV carbs on the old KZ400 with PODS. But the last XS850 I built basically bolted right up and ran fine. So you're right, it depends on the carbs.
Thanks for all the input. At this point I would probably throw on some K&N's and consider something more advanced down the road. My fiberglass skills are limited, so I'll hold off for now.
Maritime said:
I had a hell of a time jetting my CV carbs on the old KZ400 with PODS. But the last XS850 I built basically bolted right up and ran fine. So you're right, it depends on the carbs.
Thanks for all the input. At this point I would probably throw on some K&N's and consider something more advanced down the road. My fiberglass skills are limited, so I'll hold off for now.
MotorbikeBruno
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
Treitz, you had to work with the WORST DESIGNED MOTORCYCLE CARBS ON THE PLANET (for that bike at least). Oh sorry, my true feelings came out for those damn bikes. They had several jetting changes in the first few months of production because Kawasaki couldn't get them to run right from the factory. The only KZ400,440's that I was able to get running half way decent were stock bikes with stock air filters etc. So you won't have the trouble on this bike. There will be a little putzing around but NOTHING like that godforsaken KZ400. I've owned 3 in my life and worked on countless others. I won't even work on them for people anymore because I'll let some other shop deal with them. 8)
Back to your ride. I can't wait to hear that thing
treitz said:
Treitz, you had to work with the WORST DESIGNED MOTORCYCLE CARBS ON THE PLANET (for that bike at least). Oh sorry, my true feelings came out for those damn bikes. They had several jetting changes in the first few months of production because Kawasaki couldn't get them to run right from the factory. The only KZ400,440's that I was able to get running half way decent were stock bikes with stock air filters etc. So you won't have the trouble on this bike. There will be a little putzing around but NOTHING like that godforsaken KZ400. I've owned 3 in my life and worked on countless others. I won't even work on them for people anymore because I'll let some other shop deal with them. 8)
Back to your ride. I can't wait to hear that thing
treitz
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
I completely agree with you. I spent about a year trying to tune that KZ400 with POD's before I finally switched to a 2-1 intake a VM32 carb. Was happy with that decision.
However I tuned one for another guy, completely stock and I got it running pretty well. Still not perfectly, but good enough. Despise those carbs.
Like I said, I threw pods on the last 850 I did and it required little to no tuning at all. Couldn't believe it.
MotorbikeBruno said:Treitz, you had to work with the WORST DESIGNED MOTORCYCLE CARBS ON THE PLANET (for that bike at least). Oh sorry, my true feelings came out for those damn bikes. They had several jetting changes in the first few months of production because Kawasaki couldn't get them to run right from the factory. The only KZ400,440's that I was able to get running half way decent were stock bikes with stock air filters etc. So you won't have the trouble on this bike. There will be a little putzing around but NOTHING like that godforsaken KZ400. I've owned 3 in my life and worked on countless others. I won't even work on them for people anymore because I'll let some other shop deal with them. 8)
Back to your ride. I can't wait to hear that thing
I completely agree with you. I spent about a year trying to tune that KZ400 with POD's before I finally switched to a 2-1 intake a VM32 carb. Was happy with that decision.
However I tuned one for another guy, completely stock and I got it running pretty well. Still not perfectly, but good enough. Despise those carbs.
Like I said, I threw pods on the last 850 I did and it required little to no tuning at all. Couldn't believe it.
MotorbikeBruno
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
Yes sir, they never did run right even stock
Now get back to work, can't wait to see more on this thing 8)
Yes sir, they never did run right even stock
Now get back to work, can't wait to see more on this thing 8)
treitz
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
Sorry not a ton of progress. At least not show worthy progress. Got the hand controls on, rear sets, and started wiring (sort of).
Couldn't quite figure out a under seat tail light system that I was happy with, so I picked this side mount up from a forum member on here. I like it, and I like the quality, but it does stick out a little far due to the shaft drive. Make the bike feel a little off balance from the back, but I think I can live with it.
Sorry not a ton of progress. At least not show worthy progress. Got the hand controls on, rear sets, and started wiring (sort of).
Couldn't quite figure out a under seat tail light system that I was happy with, so I picked this side mount up from a forum member on here. I like it, and I like the quality, but it does stick out a little far due to the shaft drive. Make the bike feel a little off balance from the back, but I think I can live with it.
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focusinprogress
City Limit Moto:Parts-Service-Apparel (716)8038606
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
what if you took out those two allen bolts that hold the plate mount to the bracket that's on the axle, and redrill two new mounting holes to get that tucked in closer to the wheel and re-mount?
otherwise looks like a nice piece!
what if you took out those two allen bolts that hold the plate mount to the bracket that's on the axle, and redrill two new mounting holes to get that tucked in closer to the wheel and re-mount?
otherwise looks like a nice piece!
treitz
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: XS850 - Monoshock & USD Fork
Good points. Either way I'd have to drill 2 knew holes. I'll just have to see how far I can tuck it in before it hits in drive shaft housing.
The extra holes will be covered by the license plate, so definitely a good idea.
Thanks for the input!
Good points. Either way I'd have to drill 2 knew holes. I'll just have to see how far I can tuck it in before it hits in drive shaft housing.
The extra holes will be covered by the license plate, so definitely a good idea.
Thanks for the input!
