That Little Dolphin's Got Fire In Its Belly! (CM400)

Hey I totally understand your seat dilemma, I have the same bike a CM400T and I have not yet decided if I want to cafe it until I know what the hell to do with the seat issue. I have seen a lot of attempts out there to make it look cool and nothing has really grabbed me - its a tough one. Stupid frame design. I could cut and weld it to my liking but like you I have a wife that may want the occasional ride and I want to use the factory latches. I feel your pain. -MBS

I'll be interested to see your build if you get around to working on the CM400. That 750 was sweet, I hope you're recovering well.

That frame line is why I've said this bike wants in its heart to be a bobber, we argue over it sometimes. Even a welded design will be complicated because it will either float over that dip in the frame and leave it visible, or it will have to relocate the shock mount and reconstruct that part altogether. I'm speaking entirely ex rectum here since I don't weld, maybe there is another solution. Some of the other cm400s look pretty good.

This is why I think a brat style project is ideal here. Even if I didn't want to keep the two-up seat, a longer lower seat may be able to smooth those lines some. I've never tried to build a seat before, but like with everything else my motto is "how hard could it be?"

Yeah I miss my 750 cafe. All I have left of it is the engine, exhaust and a few other odds and ends. :'( But I am looking forward to working on my CM400T. Yeah that seat issue is a bitch. I have considered a solo seat which would seem to fit right in with the lines - more of a cafe-bobber type of thing. But the best conversion cafe build I have seen in my opinion is the CM400A-Bomb.

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=9888.0

I like everything about that bike.

But this is also cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iEwT6d0YO0

So I am considering a hybrid of the 2, but I am undecided.

I am healing up well, pretty much walking around no sweat, got a bit of a limp though, hoping its not permanent, but whatever, no complaints. Considering most people who have been through it end up paralyzed or worse. I am done working on heavy 4 cylinders though.

So glad you're recovering fine. It sounds like you're keeping a very good perspective on the whole thing. Somebody once told me that there are two kinds of motorcycles in the world: those that have been wrecked and those that will be wrecked. So I got a bike that had already been laid down. Not sure that's how it works, but I'll give it a try.

I suppose the good thing about the cm400 is that it makes you get creative and not just fall back on the same things that have been done before. That's my glass-half-full moment for the day.

I should probably just forget about the seat for now since I've got a lot of work to do before I get there. Still want to go to pods and hide the battery and electronics somewhere, will be a big job. But...

I was looking at Steve F's CX500 build and realized that that bike has a very similar frame to the CM400.

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=10072.0

It's got the swooping seat area AND the broken front where the engine attaches as a structural member itself.

Steve F bought a prefab fiberglass bumpstop seat and thinks he can fit it with minor modification of the frame, no welding, and that the sides will slide down over some of the swooping bars. That would be ultra cool, so I'll be watching closely to see how it works.

I've also collected some links to other CX500 builds with good seats. I'm going to dump them here as a reminder to myself when I get to the seat, hopefully it will help some other CM400 builders.

This one seems to have added a panel b/w the seat and the frame and painted it seat color, sort of hiding in plain sight. Very nice:
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4044.0
Lower in the same thread is ROne's CX500 with leather bump stop seat. He arched the bump over the stock fender mount, looks pretty good. Maybe cut the fender mount and arch it a little less for more brat style?

On the second page of that same thread, lil beast's CX500 with sleek low black bump stop seat:
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4044.msg88774#msg88774
Can't see exactly what he did, looks like another black piece b/w seat and frame to obscure the strange line. Will look for his build thread later.

Phase 2 of CaTacl1sm's (no idea if i spelled that right) CX500 project. In addition to his awesome bike, if you scroll about 3/4 down the first page, you'll find pics of Pampadori's CX500. It looks like he again fabbed up a seat with long-hanging sides to cover the gap.
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=6968.0

cxtex ruined a perfectly good rattlesnake skin and purple disco rider by putting on long sleek burgundy bump stop seat Can't see it perfectly, but it looks like the seat is floating and the gap isn't too noticeable because the frame is super clean there.
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4023.0

Something different, a Harley sportster seat fitted to a CX500 (not cafe)
http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/36267/ShowPost.aspx

Two interesting CX500s in this thread. Post #9 has a small pic of what seems to be a leather Giuliari seat fitted perfectly to a CX500.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398560

More of ROne's awesome bike
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4785.15

and CaTacl1sm's first CX500 build
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=5189.0

I'm sure there are more out there, just starting a collection so I can refer back when I get to the seat.

dp

Late edit: just found this AMAZING cafe'd CX custom made seat that follows the line of the frame perfectly:
http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/129337/ShowPost.aspx

Another late edit: Not a CM or CX, but this GS1000 has a very nice seat that extends quite low and would work to hide the frame bits. Also this build uses orig side covers, possibly would keep from moving battery and electronics:
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=10559.0

Yet another: some interesting cafe Yamaha's. Nice looking, original solution.
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg93335#msg93335

One more: a CB400, but I like how the seat curves down from the tank, then angles back to the tail. Not the standard flat ground line and may be workable with the cm400 frame.
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=1721.120

CX500 with rear cowl appears to be separate from pad
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=10782.0

My brother made a banana seat for his triumph tiger chopper, I'll see if I can find some pics!!

dcwp said:

So glad you're recovering fine. It sounds like you're keeping a very good perspective on the whole thing. Somebody once told me that there are two kinds of motorcycles in the world: those that have been wrecked and those that will be wrecked. So I got a bike that had already been laid down. Not sure that's how it works, but I'll give it a try.

I suppose the good thing about the cm400 is that it makes you get creative and not just fall back on the same things that have been done before. That's my glass-half-full moment for the day.

I should probably just forget about the seat for now since I've got a lot of work to do before I get there. Still want to go to pods and hide the battery and electronics somewhere, will be a big job. But...

I was looking at Steve F's CX500 build and realized that that bike has a very similar frame to the CM400.

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=10072.0

It's got the swooping seat area AND the broken front where the engine attaches as a structural member itself.

Steve F bought a prefab fiberglass bumpstop seat and thinks he can fit it with minor modification of the frame, no welding, and that the sides will slide down over some of the swooping bars. That would be ultra cool, so I'll be watching closely to see how it works.

I've also collected some links to other CX500 builds with good seats. I'm going to dump them here as a reminder to myself when I get to the seat, hopefully it will help some other CM400 builders.

This one seems to have added a panel b/w the seat and the frame and painted it seat color, sort of hiding in plain sight. Very nice:
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4044.0
Lower in the same thread is ROne's CX500 with leather bump stop seat. He arched the bump over the stock fender mount, looks pretty good. Maybe cut the fender mount and arch it a little less for more brat style?

On the second page of that same thread, lil beast's CX500 with sleek low black bump stop seat:
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4044.msg88774#msg88774
Can't see exactly what he did, looks like another black piece b/w seat and frame to obscure the strange line. Will look for his build thread later.

Phase 2 of CaTacl1sm's (no idea if i spelled that right) CX500 project. In addition to his awesome bike, if you scroll about 3/4 down the first page, you'll find pics of Pampadori's CX500. It looks like he again fabbed up a seat with long-hanging sides to cover the gap.
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=6968.0

cxtex ruined a perfectly good rattlesnake skin and purple disco rider by putting on long sleek burgundy bump stop seat Can't see it perfectly, but it looks like the seat is floating and the gap isn't too noticeable because the frame is super clean there.
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4023.0

Something different, a Harley sportster seat fitted to a CX500 (not cafe)
http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/36267/ShowPost.aspx

Two interesting CX500s in this thread. Post #9 has a small pic of what seems to be a leather Giuliari seat fitted perfectly to a CX500.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398560

More of ROne's awesome bike
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=4785.15

and CaTacl1sm's first CX500 build
http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=5189.0

I'm sure there are more out there, just starting a collection so I can refer back when I get to the seat.

dp

Late edit: just found this AMAZING cafe'd CX custom made seat that follows the line of the frame perfectly:
http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/129337/ShowPost.aspx

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the links. I have been collecting images also for inspiration. I will hit up these links when I have a few minutes. Right now I am at work but I wanted to take a minute and get back to you. -MBS

Thanks for the response. MarcW - I'd love to see pics of the banana seat if you've got em.

Just a quick update since it's been a while. No pics today unfortunately.

Got a good headlight bucket on ebay, fresh black paint and mounted, looks good. No LED or switch on top, for now just eliminating the high-beam.

Also got a battery, it's a little less than 1/4" too big for the stock cage. I can cram it in most of the way, but will have to deal with that later. Eventually I want to move it any way so I'm not worried. It's AGM, so may lay it under seat or somewhere less visible and hide the electronics to open up that part of the frame. Got to get pods and dial in the carbs before that though, so lots of work before it's sorted out.

With the new battery, was able to test my new switches and rewire job. Only a few minor problems. That gray wire that I couldn't find on the schematic turned out to be important. It carries voltage for the blinkers, but was mislabeled "dark green" on the schematic. Once I got it where it needed to be and corrected one other problem that was causing a short, I got all my electric functions working. One of the front blinker sockets is loose and only works when I push the bulb all the way in with my finger, but that's a tiny issue. This weekend I'll shorten my long wires, fix the loose socket, polish the headlight ring, and tuck it all away. I'm totally stoked about the new switches, way better looking than the stock switches!

Also got most of the painting done on the tank. I put down a coat of green metal fleck under the color, hoping it would show through and add depth. The color seems to have totally hidden it, so it's just another base coat I guess. One more coat of dark green and some clear and we'll be in business. Should get some pics next week if the sun decides to come back out.

Also cut down the stock tail/turn lights so they are only as wide as they need to be to accommodate the license plate. Painted the unit green to match tank and mounted. Looks pretty good, but I'm likely to drop the rear fender altogether and use one of those all in one tail, turn, brake light LED setups. We'll see.

Also starting to finalize plans for a seat. If I end up getting a cheap seatpan, I may try for a brat style two up job that is flatter than stock, but would work with existing mounts, fender, etc. Otherwise I think I'm going to try my hand at fiberglass. My plan is to build a glass seat with the traditional bump stop, but sort of a skirt hanging down. I like what Oz Customs did with the GS1000 in the link post I made above. He went with a metal skirt and mounting pad then just put an aftermarket glass seat on top. The effect is a low hanging two inch skirt that follows the flat ground line of the tank and covers the frame with a notch over the shock mounts. With two-tone paint, it looks slick. Since I don't do welding or metal fab, I'm thinking of just making a glass seat that hangs lower than most you can buy and covers the frame with the bump stop arching up to cover the stock mounts/tool tray/etc. Then I should be able to use the stock fender mounting holes to bolt the glass seat on and maybe a cabinet latch in the front. I'll have to glass in some support braces under the flat area to hold it over the dipping frame.

All that is the idea for now, but since it's my first glass project, we'll see how it goes. I'll definitely take pictures of the process if I do it and get some pics of the green tank, etc this weekend.

Dan

Man I really hate not having a garage. Discovered a small hole in my tarp the hard way. My Clymer is completely soaked, but I guess it's good that it soaked up most of the rain.

Anyway, a couple of update pics here.

Tank mostly painted. Still another color coat after that, then getting clear later this weekend. Got the rear brake painted, wheel could use more cleaning. Can also see here the battery wedged into the only slightly too small battery cage and the chopped and painted rear lights. Maybe should have gone black, but for now I like the green.


I just couldn't resist getting a look at it on the bike, plus I wanted to start thinking about lines for the seat rennovation. More on that later


View from rider's seat, controls and lights mostly in place.


Also picked up some bent exhaust tips to use in place of mufflers or the copper bends Pavel worked out. Not a big fan of the black chrome, especially how it clashes with the matte black on the rest of the exhaust. Not a huge fan of the matte either. Would rather have both in regular gloss black. Later...


Finally started on a seat project as well. Will post a full report when it gets somewhere.

that post with all the links was very inspirational. i can't seem to get anything done at work, when i sit here reading/thinking about seat ideas all day

looking good so far. be sure to show details when you come up with a seat

baconpocket said:

that post with all the links was very inspirational. i can't seem to get anything done at work, when i sit here reading/thinking about seat ideas all day

looking good so far. be sure to show details when you come up with a seat

Click to expand...

I do all my best motorcycle thinking at work. Then scramble to get things done. ;D

here's an idea for a seat. could be removable too

[youtube=425,350]oCQN1993wTE[/youtube]

hey there,

what i did with my seat was, using the old seat pan i shaved down the foam to the look i was looking for, and then re wrapped it. it took a couple of hrs, and knife and sand paper. looks great and still
comfertable. just my 2 cents.
so far love the build, and like the way your going with bobber more the cafe..a agree with you that the bike would adapt better to bobber than cafe..like the drag bars..
later.

Thanks for the ideas. That video is like what Alchemist did with his a bit. Would definitely be flexible.

What I'm working on now is basically what you're talking about supercafe. Only difference is that I wasn't quite satisfied with the original seat pan - the arching shape was too extreme for me and I wanted it to hang a little lower over the back sides. So what I've done is to mold a fiberglass pan using the old pan and some foamcore as a buck. Now I've got to remove the glass from the buck - proving to be a bit tricky, but once I trim the overhang it should come. Then I'll either use the original seat foam or more likely just put on new foam in the shape I want. I have a friend who I think will be able to do the upholstery.

I'll post pics once I get the glass off the buck and see that it's not a total disaster.

Dan

hey,
good stuff, if that does'nt pan out (lol). you could use the old pan and just rework the steel.
hammer and shape it then add or take away, weld and shape. any way, can't wait to see the end
product.
later.

hey there again,
just picked up a sporty tank for my cm200 bobber, should look awesome, i'll post some pics to show you. though you would be interested in that, considering your build.
later.

supercafe said:

hey,
good stuff, if that does'nt pan out (lol). you could use the old pan and just rework the steel.
hammer and shape it then add or take away, weld and shape. any way, can't wait to see the end
product.
later.

Click to expand...

That's pretty good, I love puns. One of my greatest character flaws I suppose. But yeah, I figure this gives me a chance to experiment with fiberglass since I've wanted to learn how to do it for a while and if it doesn't work then no big loss. Plus none of it will be visible in the final build so I can make some mistakes without having to ditch the whole thing. I originally thought about working some metal or luan or something onto the pan to get the low hang I want, if the glass seat doesn't work, I may just hang some glass over the side...

Anyway, I managed to get my pan off the buck so here are some pics. If the seat works out I'll do a complete writeup in the tanks and seats section.

First I took the cover off and thought about just cutting, but you can see in this pic the line I wanted to get rid of. I'd like the bottom of the seat to cover more of the rear frame, especially that rusty lock mount.


So I just cut some strips of posterboard and taped them in there to get the skirt.


Used a chalk line to make a fairly straight line fron the lowest point of the existing pan on each side around the back. Then I cut the foamcore down to that line. If I ever do this again, I'll just draw over it with sharpie, but not cut down so that I can lay up extra glass and trim down later.


Covered the whole animal with foil and tape. Since it's going under the foam, I don't care about getting it perfectly smooth, but didn't want too many pools of resin or places to wrinkle the fabric.


Layed up a few layers of glass. Did a sheet of woven cloth, a layer of chopped mat, patched up some strategic places with more mat, waited 24 hrs, sanded.


Ugly.. Patched with more chopped mat, then a final layer of cloth. Not too bad.


Trimmed with cutoff wheel, and popped off the buck.






Here it is sitting on the bike. I think it turned out ok, not perfect but I'm thrilled for my (mostly) first glass project.



I'm going to take the mounting hardware off the old seat and attach it to the glass pan using large washers and rubber grommets to avoid cracks. Then cover with foam - either old seat foam or new foam. Then gotta get upholstered. I think I'll have someone else do this for the pro look. Any thoughts on prepping for that? I have seen some people lay a strip of wood in the lip for stapling fabric. Is that the best way to go or should I just leave it glass and do glue, rivets, etc?

That's all the time I've got for now. Gotta get ready for a busy work week. Spent too much time surfing seat builds last week and need to catch up

Supercafe - I'd love to see the new tank whenever you get some pics. Thanks again everybody for all the input!

Dan

Jen and I are more than impressed with the work. Did C freak out from the use of caustic materials?

Here is an idea that Jen and I just found for making that seat more comfortable. It looks like you can purchase seat cover materials that are already sewn if you shop around. I am pretty sure that having someone upholster a seat will become a pretty pricey venture. Anyway, check out this link (the guy put two gel bike seats inside of his padding and then covered it with the upholster):

http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/forum/ladies-only/100433-home-made-gel-seat-pics-done-me.html

I cannot wait to see the bikes new paint job when it gets to that point. What do you plan on doing with red rocket after you complete this fancy water mammal? What was once our dolphin is going to be giving you special pleasures.... and it appears that you are liking it so far.

We can't wait to come up and ride with you next time we have some vacation time.

Thanks man! For everything, but I'll look into getting pre-sewn seat parts. I have a friend up here in A2 that makes shoes so I think I can get some cheap upholstery work done.

For now gonna keep the Rocket around, hoping to get C riding soon. She's cool about the fiberglass as long as it stays outside.

Come back soon and we can do some riding!

hey man,

the pan looks great, turned out well.
my father in-law owns a fiber glass factory up here in canada and so i get to work with the
stuff all the time, and i must say if thats your first time at a seat or any fiber glass making,
bravo....
looks like it fits well on the bike. post some pics when you get some foam on there..
later.

hey man

great idea with the glass pan and it looks awesome in the pictures. are you upholstering the entire thing or just the 1-up part?