1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - Stalled for the time being...

Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - The fork hunt is over!

Autotek said:
Very cool thread, watching.


Thanks mate... don't start the popcorn yet though, it's gonna be a while...
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - The fork hunt is over!

Such a great project. Love the paint detailing on the Malvern Star's steering head :)
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - The fork hunt is over!

Dale said:
Such a great project. Love the paint detailing on the Malvern Star's steering head :)


Cheers Dale! Yeah they sure had some nice detail on the factory paint jobs back then... I'm really going to try hard to re-create that as much as I can too.


Unfortunately I've got no progress to report though, no time really to work on it and I'm stuck getting the cotterpin out of the right crank arm. I need to get that off to get the bottom bracket and front sprocket off so I can mock up with the engine and make sure the clearance is good.
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - The fork hunt is over!


Ok, just realised I haven't put anything in here for a loooooong time...


So I've been stuck removing the cotter pin from the drive side of the pedal crank. It appeared to be bonded or fused from what I could tell and no amount of hammering would get it out. I also tried a trick I found on Youtube with a vice and clamps but no go. I restored to drilling it out and luckily didn't damage anything.


It won't be doing any pinning again...


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And that finally let me get the mock up done on the '60's Malvern Star with mudguards and the 28" wheels and proper 28" forks.


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Notice the new location for the fuel tank. It seems this is a popular location for it... not 100% decided but it might be better back there.


There's also still something not quite right with that front mudguard, so I may need to shorten the two mounting wires that go around the front axle to pull it forward another half inch. It clears the head now but won't clear the exhaust.


So now I know the forks are good etc. I can start dismantling wheels to clean up and get organised for the drums.
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - The fork hunt is over!


I also got a PM from another member asking how the counter shaft sprocket/idler gear goes together. He has also inherited a Cucciolo but unfortunately that part is in pieces and he has no idea how it goes together, so I'll post the process in here too as while it's a basic mechanism, I'm always fascinated by how the designers came up with these in the first place. They're obviously a little more switched on than I...


Chris I hope you're watching!


Anyway, all the bits look like this:


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It sits on the output shaft from the gearbox which exits the right side of the crankcase:


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Inverting the sprocket shows a recess in the back, and that's where the two collets need to locate once the sprocket's on the shaft:


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Look close and you can see a groove around the shaft just below the threads:


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This is where those same collets sit:


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Then the sprocket goes on, and make sure the collets slip under the recess in the back of the sprocket so it sits flush, but I managed to completely skip getting a pic of this step, but you will see it shortly.


Next, take the circular strip of metal that will act as a spring and slip it over the centre part of the mechanism where it sits in the groove. Sorry for my lack of technical terms here, no idea what it's called exactly (and sorry for the blur):


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This then slides onto the output shaft of the gearbox on top of the sprocket, oriented so that the flat part of the "teeth" face forward:


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Next, the sprocket that engages with the right pedal crank slides over the inner part:


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And the rollers are then installed into the slots between the teeth on the outside of the spring. I simply used a flat bladed screwdriver to hold the spring in while installing the rollers:


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And, finally, the locking cover screws into the thread which is inside the end of the gearbox output shaft. It's a left hand thread so it doesn't undo while the shaft is spinning:


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That's it!


I will shortly have a little video of how it works which I will post up...
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - The fork hunt is over!


Ok, first day of holidays today and I still haven't got my 450 back, so time to do something with the wheels.


I took some photos to make sure I could re-lace the spokes the same way.


Remember my plan now is for two bicycles out of the bits I have, one for the Ducati, and one I can actually ride to get some exercise... so both sets of wheels are getting attention; both the 28 x 1 1/2 and 28 x 1 3/8.


I decided to start on the 28 x 1 3/8 as they're the least critical.


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I realised though that to get the wheels dismantled, I should pull the sprocket off. So using an eBook I was recommended to buy by Roger Musson (www.wheelpro.co.uk) I made what's called a chain whip to get the sprockets off:


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While it should work as intended and appears to be good, I couldn't get the sprockets to budge on either rear wheel, so I simply persevered.


I have some spoke tools on the way which I was going to use to undo the nipples, but closer inspection showed me the spokes are not worth saving, so cutting was the quick way.


I did at least manage to partly dismantle the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub that's currently on the 28 x 1 1/2 rear wheel so I could get to the spokes better, and I hope to be able to recondition this for use on the bicycle I can ride. I have the drums front and rear for the 28 x 1 1/2 wheels.


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More lacing shots of the 28 x 1 1/2 wheels for future reference:


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Then I grabbed the dremel, stuck a cut off wheel in it, and went to work. I was careful to hold the spokes as I cut them so the tension didn't cause anything to fly in my face.


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(You can see the tips of my safety boots in the bottom of the pic...)


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And then the same for the 28 x 1 3/8 wheels:


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These ones had some sort of material tube protector around the rims, and unfortunately it served to hold moisture in and cause a lot of rust in there. I hope it's not too bad, and the front is much worse than the rear:


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I ducked up the road a little earlier and got a bottle of rust converter, so hopefully I can arrest the progress now when I get some more time and prevent it getting any worse.


At this stage I'll be painting the 28 1 1/2 rims I think but I'll probaby get the 28 x 1 3/8 rims re-chromed as I suspect I'll use a front cantilever brake which will of course rub the paint off the outside of the rim.
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

Pete, This is such a great project, i followed your 450 thread too ,glad to see you;v still got the bug for it, hope you get the 450 back soon,
hollidays start here on the 21st so hope to spend some time on my new pro too
Have a good one mate
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

Cheers Jeff! Supposed to get the 450 back tomorrow... I really hope so!


I've definitely still got the bug for it, and it's frustrating at the moment how little progress I've been able to make. Between work being stupidly mad and no spare time I've just been getting nowhere.


I'm keen to get this done as I have grand ideas in my head about the little Yammie YB100 that's also waiting in the wings... but no room to bring that here until the shed is built... which means more time away from projects! ::)


I hadn't realised you'd started new projects so will pop along and take a peek at those for sure...
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

Not trying to be a kill-joy Pete...
But is that a bend in the rim right ahead of your thumb and again a little further down on the same side?

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Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

Hoosier Daddy said:
Not trying to be a kill-joy Pete...
But is that a bend in the rim right ahead of your thumb and again a little further down on the same side?


Aaah I should've said something... yes I think there is a ding or two in the rim, but they're so small and subtle that I'll probably have a quick go at straightening them but more than likely they'll just stay like that.


With an inner tube in there, it's not going to affect holding air pressure, and they're certainly not enough to worry the bead of the tyre either.


Pretty confident if the centre's not too rusted they should be good and solid.
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

I think I owe you something sir?
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - Scored Some Brakes!

RotaryDane said:
Can throw you the equation for calculating spoke length if you need it :)
If needed I might be able to source some new stainless spokes and nipples, but don't know if you are up for new stuff. My school litterally has a wall pilled up with boxes of spokes ranging from 250mm to (at least) 300mm in length in intervals of 1mm, could probably convince the teachers to let go of some.


Ahah! Found it... ;D


As far as spokes go, I'll probably stick with plated ones for authenticity, but I shall let you know if that plan changes ;)
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

I am a man of my word ;)

Length=sqrt((R1^2+R2^2+W^2)-(2R1*R2*Cos(x))-0.5Y

R1=Rim inner radius.
R2=Hub radius measured from spoke hole center to center.
W=Hub width minus 1 flange thickness, devided by 2.
Cos(x)=0.5 if each spoke crosses three times.
Y=Diameter of spoke hole.

All units are mm and spokes on the sprocket side of a rear hub are typically 2 mm shorter than the rest. And length is measured from the bend to the end of the thread.
Teacher told me that the spokes on your Malvern Star likely are 2.3mm and if needed are still available from new both zinc treated and chromed at about 1$ a piece. :)
A tip for dismantelling the gear hub, the sprocket is usually held on by a clip ring on the outside which you should be able to release with a screwdriver, once that is off dismantelling the hub is usually easier from the opposite side where the brake arm would usually be.
Grease everything inside generously except the small grip drivers which grip the hub case, those should only be given a light oil or they WILL stick in place and not grip the hub case leaving you with a hub that just spins.
This is of course assuming that your hub looks anything like later type 3-gear hubs, but I have a hunch it will.
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

Wow cheers for that... that just made my head explode :eek:


I will endeavour to put it to good use though :)


I believe I can get suitable spokes over here for something around 50 cents each which will be just the ticket...
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

Length=sqrt((R1^2+R2^2+W^2)-(2R1*R2*Cos(x))-0.5Y

OUCH!
Makes my head hurt just looking at it. But sorry for the question but what does the symbol "^" mean?
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

That would be squared I believe... as in R1 squared (4 x 4 = 16 sort of thing)...
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

Actually more specifically it means raised to the power of.... so for example 4^4 is not 4x4 it is actually 4x4x4x4. sorry math major and had to learn to write programing language for a computer science class and thats how we had to write it.
 
Re: 1949 Ducati Cucciolo T2 - A little progress...

So the little "2" (squared) or "3" (cubed) after the number is out?
Or is it just hard to type on a computer?
 
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