cited for turn signals, tail light, and mirrors...huh?

S

sancho

Active Member
So my bike is a 1970 Honda CL175, here is my build thread:

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=59122.0

I got stopped in Montgomery County MD today after work and was ticketed for:

1. Failure to securely fasten registration plate to vehicle. 03M0H9J TA - 13-411(c2) Payable fine of $70
2. Taillight, stoplight, turn signal, ID light, side mirrors. 03P0H9J MR - 11-393.9 Payable fine of $70
3. Failure to equip motorcycle with two rear view mirrors. 03Q0H9J TA - 22-403(c) Payable fine of $70

I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong. Also my bike is registered in VA and has VA tags. Virginia btw does not inspect bikes older than 20 years. You just go and get your plates and done! Never been hassled by VA cops ever. But I hold a MD drivers license at the moment. Because I am in the process of moving to VA but still have some stuff in MD.

Anyway, do any of you have any experience with this in MD? I will do my research and just thought I'd post it here first to see if anyone had any advice.

And the kicker is:
- my turn signals worked, and the cop said they were too dark and small and have to be amber, I got the mini dark turn signals from DCC http://www.dimecitycycles.com/black-smoke-arrow-deco-style-motorcycle-turn-signals.html
- my tail light and brake light worked, but they are sort of a hack job where I took the old stock turn signals and turned them into a brake light. Cop said it has to be red.
- As for the mirrors, well I didn't have any, been meaning to get bar end mirrors, but apparently they won't do either. Cop said they have to be mounted before the grips and have to come up over my hands.

Any advice?
 
Build thread link?

I would say do some research and see what is required in VA. It has been my understanding that if you are a resident in one state, and your bike is 100% in that same state, than you can't really be cited for another states laws.

I'm curious as to how this turns out though.
 
Big Rich said:
Build thread link?

I would say do some research and see what is required in VA. It has been my understanding that if you are a resident in one state, and your bike is 100% in that same state, than you can't really be cited for another states laws.

I'm curious as to how this turns out though.
Click to expand...

oops, I edited the link in.

Yeah, I am the registered owner of the bike and its registered in VA. My DL is from MD and have a legal address in MD. No freaking clue what happens in this situation. I guess I am curious how this turns out too lol. But the Fines are crazy $210 total! Thats nuts man, its almost as much as I paid for bike lol.
 
After seeing the bike...... I'd say it was bound to happen.

I can't speak for any other states, so still do some research. That brake light is asking for trouble for multiple reasons. Check the vehicle inspection codes for each state, but be prepared to pay the fine. Did the officer give you the option of fixing everything and dropping the fines?
 
Even though your bike wasn't inspected for compliance, I'm pretty sure your home state of VA has laws on the books regarding turn signals, mirrors, display of license plates, etc. - most states do anyway. Either way, you need to follow the laws of the jurisdiction you are operating a vehicle in unless there is a law specifically exempting vehicles titled in another state. Same thing goes for helmets, some states require them and some don't. It's up to you to know the laws where you are operating a vehicle. That being said, it was still a dick move for the cop to cite you. Most of us here probably would fail to meet some asinine requirement but that's the price of customization for you.
 
I'll echo Barnburner -- you're required to follow the law in whatever jurisdiction you're in, but the cop who cited you is also a dick.

Requirements for equipment by state are readily available, but they don't tell you how tight or lax they are. AZ in my experience was very lax. WA was so-so. MA seems to be so-so so far, but I've been told depends where you are (and of course how the cop feels).

That being said, not running turn signals is enough to get you pulled over anywhere, and if the cop's a dick he'll pile on whatever else he can. The turn signal size thing is chicken shit, but the red lens for the stop light is likely universal. And if you had mirrors, even bar-end mirrors, he might not have cited you (and that requirement for in front of the grips and over the hands is the first I've heard of that).

But what to do? I'd go to court, fines are steep enough to make it worth your while. Going to court and claiming ignorance is an easy way for the judge to laugh and hold up the fines -- it's a lousy defense. Instead, fix your bike up so that it would pass muster in VA, save receipts if you buy anything, and shoot photos that show that you've learned your lesson. Then figure out what you can get away with in MD and bring it back to that.

I'd keep at least one mirror and change your stop lens to red, however, no matter what it says on the books.
 
Since your bike is pre 73 you shouldn't need turn signals at all. Put some red lens paint over you turn signal brake light.

edit: actually MD doesn't seem to require any signals on motorcycles- http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2013/article-gtr/section-22-206/

(b) Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer registered in this State and sold as a new vehicle after June 1, 1961, shall be equipped with electric turn signal lamps meeting the requirements of § 22-219(b) through (h) of this subtitle, except that:
(1) Motorcycles need not be equipped with electric turn signal lamps; and
 
Big Rich, yeah the brake light is no doubt asking for trouble. I don't think the officer gave the option to fix or pay up, I didn't even ask, just told me to go to court or pay up. I was tired and wanted to go home, hot 98deg humid weather, motorcycle jacket, sitting in traffic, sweating my balls off, bike overheating in traffic, just wanted to get out of there.

BarnBurner, yeah you're right. I'll double check VA just in case and try to be compliant at least. No inspection doesn't mean I can run it like I want to lol. But yeah, it was a dick move form the cop, but he was not an ass hole attitude wise, he actually said "cool bike man" hehe.

carnivorous chicken, thats a good tip, I should get my bike fixed up, VA compliant, go to court and maybe reduce the fines. Again, my brake light and no mirrors was asking for trouble, I'll admit fault here. But as for the turn signals, they work perfectly fine, and I even have the extra loud digital flasher. But they are a little dark, or smoked lenses I should say. I couldn't understand his argument about the lenses being required to be amber. Thats just crazy, I see plenty of cars with smoked tail lights and even newer cars have dark taillights from factory.

arkcom, wow thanks man. I'll have to dig deep into this. I may call the MD DMV tomorrow to dig deeper. But thats a great find man thanks!
 
arkcom looks to be right about turn signals, here's another source that links to the state one: http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Rights/State-Laws.aspx?stateid=20

That being said, that citation is isn't about your turn signals, it's about your red lens. Since we've established the cop was a dick, he's just doing a little ball-breaking.
 
carnivorous chicken said:
arkcom looks to be right about turn signals, here's another source that links to the state one: http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Rights/State-Laws.aspx?stateid=20

That being said, that citation is isn't about your turn signals, it's about your red lens. Since we've established the cop was a dick, he's just doing a little ball-breaking.
Click to expand...

wow nice find thanks again! yeah you're right its about the tail light, I'll report back on what I find tomorrow with the DMV and the Court. thanks again guys!
 
you really shouild have a very good, bright red stop/taillight and decent size as well and mounted up near the standard location,for your own safety,.......... ffs :)
 
and stop moaning about the amount of the fines, thats feckin cheap

try the same in australia, you'd be up for a minimum $3-400 in fines, a couple of demerit points on your licence (which hang round for 3 years and if you get to 12, auto loss of licence for 3 months), full roadworthy inspection (which costs another $100-150), the cost of repairing the bike including anything else the roadworthy inspection has found plus the hassle of getting the bike trailered from the scene of the bust to home and then to repairers, inspection and presentation at police station cos they take your licence plate until you've sorted it all out
and of course if they really don't like you they'll call you on "Hoon Laws" which they can apply if they consider the defects to be wilfully done ("Hoon" laws also cover burnouts, streetracing, excessive speed - over the speed limit by more than 25mph) , in which case all of the above applies but only after they've impounded your vehicle for a month minimum, for which you also pay impound fees (per day) and the tow vehicle that takes yourbike to the pound. second "Hoon" offence, 3 months impound. 3rd "Hoon" offence, confiscation of vehicle which is then destroyed. in none of the cases does it matter if it's your vehicle, could be your friends bike or your dads car

i just got a speed camera fine (44kmh in a 40 zone, so thats about 2 1/2 mph over the limit) $180 and one demerit point. i have previously been done for 51kmh in a 50 zone (6/10ths mph over.....) same fine and demerit point

on a more positive note, last summer the cops radared a bike doing well in excess of 300kmh of the highway right out in the country, they gave chase but obviously didn't stand a chance.....hahahaha
much uproar in the media, calling for bikes to be speed limited, and calling for the rider to turn himself in.
the traffic cops were under considerable pressure to get someone (anyone would do) so they then 'analysed' the speed camera photo until they could make out the licence plate (possibly some creative analysis methinks) and turned up at the door of an R1 rider who told them to fuck right off as he was of the opinion that if they'd really got his plate they would have been waiting for him when he got home that day (if indeed he had committed the offence or even been out that day....) rather than turning up two weeks later with a highly suspect looking photograph of someone that may or may not be him
he heard nothing more........
 
Unless they specifically state DOT approved, most aftermarket turn signals are not legal. This has been an issue for years in the sportbike arena when someone installs flush mounts or smoked shorty signals. Most integrated tail lights are not DOT legal, either. Does it stop people (including myself) from using them? No, but you should be aware of the risk that you will get ticketed.
 
spotty said:
and stop moaning about the amount of the fines, thats feckin cheap

try the same in australia, you'd be up for a minimum $3-400 in fines, a couple of demerit points on your licence (which hang round for 3 years and if you get to 12, auto loss of licence for 3 months), full roadworthy inspection (which costs another $100-150), the cost of repairing the bike including anything else the roadworthy inspection has found plus the hassle of getting the bike trailered from the scene of the bust to home and then to repairers, inspection and presentation at police station cos they take your licence plate until you've sorted it all out
and of course if they really don't like you they'll call you on "Hoon Laws" which they can apply if they consider the defects to be wilfully done ("Hoon" laws also cover burnouts, streetracing, excessive speed - over the speed limit by more than 25mph) , in which case all of the above applies but only after they've impounded your vehicle for a month minimum, for which you also pay impound fees (per day) and the tow vehicle that takes yourbike to the pound. second "Hoon" offence, 3 months impound. 3rd "Hoon" offence, confiscation of vehicle which is then destroyed. in none of the cases does it matter if it's your vehicle, could be your friends bike or your dads car

i just got a speed camera fine (44kmh in a 40 zone, so thats about 2 1/2 mph over the limit) $180 and one demerit point. i have previously been done for 51kmh in a 50 zone (6/10ths mph over.....) same fine and demerit point

on a more positive note, last summer the cops radared a bike doing well in excess of 300kmh of the highway right out in the country, they gave chase but obviously didn't stand a chance.....hahahaha
much uproar in the media, calling for bikes to be speed limited, and calling for the rider to turn himself in.
the traffic cops were under considerable pressure to get someone (anyone would do) so they then 'analysed' the speed camera photo until they could make out the licence plate (possibly some creative analysis methinks) and turned up at the door of an R1 rider who told them to fuck right off as he was of the opinion that if they'd really got his plate they would have been waiting for him when he got home that day (if indeed he had committed the offence or even been out that day....) rather than turning up two weeks later with a highly suspect looking photograph of someone that may or may not be him
he heard nothing more........
Click to expand...

FEEEECK, I sure am glad I don't live down under jeeeez. I mean the fine is not so bad, just seems bad for me because relatively speaking, I've spent so little on the bike and was definitely a budget build. Thats the only reason.
 
Yeah in retrospect, I realize having proper dot tail lights would probably save my ass, in the long run. If I were to be rear ended by some idiot, he would just blame it on my improper tail light and say he didn't see me because of it or whatever. And I would probably be stuck with paying for the damages myself. Anyway, gettin my sh%t fixed up asap.
 
wtf you thinking using a yeller stop light anyway ? that is almost like riding around waving the middle finger at the cops, besides being unsafe for you
it does suck that they fined you right off tho ,i mean a fixit ticket would have sufficed i am sure
 
I can't add too much over what the others have said. Sounds like you are stuck paying the fines or going to court. I think the only thing you may be able to argue would be the turn signals. Unless there is a specific law stating that they have to be amber on motorcycles, the cops statement is false. Most trailers have dual functioning red brake lights/turn signals.

If you want to fight it, I would do as suggested and try to fix it then show that you did. You will probably get the fines reduced or excused.

In my state, SC, if your bike came with something from the manufacturer (signals, mirrors, etc.), then you have to have it.
 
Given the rest of the bike, it looks like you got off easy!

No front fender, no chain guard - those are also typically required by the letter of the law. License plate isn't lit up either.

On my XS650, I run no mirrors, no fenders, no chain guard, no signals and open pipes with 'silencers' clearly marked for race use only. I've been stopped 2x by police only because my license plate often sits too parallel to the ground - hard to see it clearly from behind.

Obviously has a lot to do with the attitude of the officer, and your interaction with them. I find that being in my 40's and balding goes a long way to smoothing things over. Once they realize I'm not some punk ass kid looking to out run the cops with my hidden license plate on a squidmobile, and they realize my bike is as old as I am, they let me go without mention of all the other stuff.

Replace the amber lens with a red one, or clear with a red LED bulb. Either way toss an LED bulb in there for a nice bright tail light, and get some proper amber lenses for the signals and brighter bulbs there too.

If you find yourself with a cruiser behind you, use the signals emphatically and hand signal too. Lots of shoulder checking and overt display of proper riding behavior will likely convince them there are bigger fish to fry than you.
 
Around here the cops leave you alone if you aren't breaking laws. that being said a lot of them are not bikers and do not know the laws on bikes here. My cousin was pulled over because his plate fell off, he had picked it up and put it in his jacket. he showed the cop, who wasn't happy so the cop asked him to test his brake light and asked where his signals were, my cousin shot his arm out and said left, then did the hand signal for right, the cop got mad and was going to give him a ticket for broken signals.....until we produced the DOT reg sheet we keep a copy of from the Provincial riders hand book that states motorcycles only require a headlight, tail/brake light(Red) one mirror (Not two) and license plate light, that is it, no signals required, he was even more pissed but had to let us go as he had his plate and we were on our way home to get bolts to bolt it back on. We were not rude, or argumentative and gave him no reason to ticket unless we broke the rules. Which we kind of did by him riding without his plate attached but it fell off mid ride and we were 10 mins from home. So if you get the rules for MD or VA print a copy and tuck it on the bike because cops will try and apply car rules to bikes and a lot of times they are not the same.
 
xb33bsa, haha yeller stop light, middle finger to the law? but honestly I was just being lazy and cheap. I had the stock tail light which was bent and smashed up from a drop I think by the previous owner, but the internals were still good. So I just gutted the bulb receptacle and wiring from the tail light and fitted them into the stock turn signal housing, which fit right in. I did mean to spray the lens with red lens spray but it seemed like it would make it darker, less visible. So I planned on getting a red LED bulb for it. Just never got around to it yet.

Tim, Saw the rules on fenders and chain guards in MD, sure glad he didn't bust me on that. Yeah I am sure age has a lot to do with the cop's attitude. I mean I am no teenager, but I still look kinda young. Maybe if I was in my 40s and 50s I would get a pass.

Maritime, yeah thats a good idea, print out the rule book from AMA and tuck it under the seat. As it turned out turn signals weren't required in MD, per AMA.

As for my attitude, I was as cool as a cucumber, polite and courteous, I am not one to argue in any situation. And to be fair the cop was pretty cool about the whole thing, even gave some nice comments on my bike.
 
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