Hondazuki XLRM250 Trans-America Hell Ride

Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

Tune-A-Fish said:
If you look closely in the last pic you will seee that it has not one but two rollers' static mounted to the frame, one upper and one back and lower.

You don't need to add a tensioner because the thing has two auto tensioners... As the swingarm travels those "tensioners" come in contact (bind) with the chain to prevent too much slack and ALSO to keep the chain "slap" from damaging anything.

Most after market spring loaded tensioners were designed for Trials, not long travel suspension.

I didn't know you were racing Daytona next week :eek:
i will go ahead and set the record straight with cold hard facts set in stone

the static rollers are indeed a good thing and all the lower roller is all that is needed on any moderm mx or offroad bike to keep sl;ack to an acceptable minimum
it is impossible to mount a stationary roller that will remove all slack.
AND the top one is not a tensioner ,it just to keep the chain from slapping the airbox or any upper frame parts you cannot put a tensioner on the top chain run
but all of the modern era machines are designed specifically to have the c/s close to the swinger pivot this is how they can get away with just a cupl staionary rollers
because they dont even have the wild swings in tension to deal with in the first place
back in the day a twin shocker with long travel that still was of the old design (we built some of them at home)well you had to use a spring loaded unit .a stationary one down below only can handle a portion of the slack while at max droop
spring loaded tensioners came stock on many mx/offroad/enduro bikes from the factory all the way into the 80's ...the only factory that did not completely redesign the entire gearbox and lower cases to specifically deal with the issue of chain slack madness was bultaco..besides senor bulto was kidnapped and murderd and that was all she wrote no more bultacos :'( :'( :'( :'(
and once agin a staitonary wheel can only be used to take out a bit of the slack at full droop,try to mount it up under the chain to remove all slack then it comes tight too quick
its just the way she goes bubs
 
XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

I like those skateboard wheel tensioners. I would use the Powell wheel, in black with the skeleton.

I never liked the rear "mud scraper" since it makes a horrible sound.

39ccbd92ad9d65681b18c62521547534.jpg
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

redwillissuperman said:
I like those skateboard wheel tensioners. I would use the Powell wheel, in black with the skeleton.
Rat Bones are my jam!!!
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

redwillissuperman said:
I like those skateboard wheel tensioners. I would use the Powell wheel, in black with the skeleton.

I never liked the rear "mud scraper" since it makes a horrible sound.

39ccbd92ad9d65681b18c62521547534.jpg

XB" I hear that, but the top roller seems to get beat worse than the bottom, Old school MX had/has no rules for engineering, most was trial and error unless you were factory lol I have to use an adjuster on my HonZuki because its not factory.

In a mud race that rear chain guide is a must along with foam safety wired to the shifter and brake to keep the mud from embedding between them and the cases, a cable on the brake to keep it from bending in a snag or crash causing the tire to lock is good also.
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

Tune-A-Fish said:
XB" I hear that, but the top roller seems to get beat worse than the bottom, Old school MX had/has no rules for engineering, most was trial and error unless you were factory lol I have to use an adjuster on my HonZuki because its not factory.

In a mud race that rear chain guide is a must along with foam safety wired to the shifter and brake to keep the mud from embedding between them and the cases, a cable on the brake to keep it from bending in a snag or crash causing the tire to lock is good also.
yup but the upper one is simply keeping the chain from slapping even further and it happens mostly in off throttle situations but you cannot really tension the top chain run olnly control it from eating shit up when off throttle

back to geometry 30 degrees wont be worth a shit there are reasons weight bias is one
you have longer suspension so when the fork angle is lazy you end up with not enough weight on the front wheel
and compounding this is the heavier lump of an engine sitting too far basck in the old school frame
also you need to make sure when forks are bottomed out that the front tire doesn't crash into the header pipe or frame, you may find it has lots of room :-X but this is very bad,so converesely you want it to be as close as you can possibly get it to be in order to have a good front back weight bias
im telling you now you have been warned if you want razor sharp handling,that doesnt throw you down and break your coller bones, you will do as i have promoted 27 28 MAX degrees bub then of course in the end you may need to adjust the triple offset for ideal trail but 30 degrees is stupid it is a lazy number for KLR 650 riders they want a bike that is nice and stable on the freeway
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

xb33bsa said:
but 30 degrees is stupid it is a lazy number for KLR 650 riders they want a bike that is nice and stable on the freeway
So do I.
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

deviant said:
you would rather have a busted coller bone ?
its only for people who cant ride and klr650 riders never ride dirt everybody knows that
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

xb33bsa said:
you would rather have a busted coller bone ?
its only for people who cant ride and klr650 riders never ride dirt everybody knows that
What about Elsinore riders? If I'm doing a 1000 mile ride that is virtually all fire roads, gravel roads and highways, is an MX bike the best bike for the ride? Also what is the rake on a stock XL250?
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

it's a custom deal noone has all the answers. mock it ride it tune it.

He's right though. 28 degrees will be better. 28.5 sounds even better, in my guesstimate. Stay at or under 5 degrees of trail
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

deviant said:
What about Elsinore riders? If I'm doing a 1000 mile ride that is virtually all fire roads, gravel roads and highways, is an MX bike the best bike for the ride?

No. But not all Elseis were full on MX. You want to look at the suspension on a DRZ Suz or an XR Hon, I used to ride the Colorado fire trails a shitload back in the late 80's and I had a CR250 and an old school IT400... the CR was sweet for hucking the water sheds, but the IT would ride the traild all day with less fatigue and arm pump (stiff/soft) If I were going to ride a long day on rocks gravel clay loose bulue groove slick mud I would want soft(r) and a little lower CG... 2004ish Yamaha YZF426 was a sweet chassis but a little heavy and hard starting.
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

DohcBikes said:
it's a custom deal noone has all the answers. mock it ride it tune it.

He's right though. 28 degrees will be better. 28.5 sounds even better, in my guesstimate. Stay at or under 5 degrees of trail
Also, your current wheelbase is 2-4" too long

If i were building a capable dual sport for 50/50, id go 28.5 rake, 5 inches trail, and 60 inches wheelbase, then tune it from there.
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

deviant said:
What about Elsinore riders? If I'm doing a 1000 mile ride that is virtually all fire roads, gravel roads and highways, is an MX bike the best bike for the ride? Also what is the rake on a stock XL250?
yes the mx bike is by far the best except for gearing the stock xl250 was what 30 31
but it only has 6" travel up front and the frame has the engine placed correcvtly it has decent weight bias
that said there isnt any bike made anywhere ever that handles good on loose gravel
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

xb33bsa said:
there isnt any bike made anywhere ever that handles good on loose gravel

Good news is most roads with loose gravel... the gravel has a bottom, you have to get to that bottom or ride clinch, same as rained on hard pack... ride clinch or dig through. Steer with the rear standing up... K-Dubin it :eek:
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

DohcBikes said:
Also, your current wheelbase is 2-4" too long

If i were building a capable dual sport for 50/50, id go 28.5 rake, 5 inches trail, and 60 inches wheelbase, then tune it from there.
This is doable with altering the head angle as XB suggested before. Something I'm looking at one step at a time. I also assume that when the head angle gets altered, the rear springer will flatten out too. Maybe not enough, but with the 2 inch adjustment on the mono shock mount I mentioned before, I think it could end up right on par.

My methodology might be annoying, but I think I usually end up in the right place. Every step, good or bad, gets documented.
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

XL motors into RM frames were very common in Britain in the 80's, particularly for Enduro racing and fast trail riding.
The stock frame/suspension was piss poor off raod and blown up RM's relatively cheap.
Usually, the lower frame had to be cut to get sprocket position correct compared to swing arm.
Suzuki SP orDR370/400 into Maico rolling chassis was another pretty neat build although it was about 30bhp less than the original 490 motor
BTW, you do know the left intake valve spring is fitted upside down? (Picture page 1)
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

All those numbers won't mean shit man... angle this measure that put magig pixie dust in the bearing grease... All a bunch of shit to a "rider" The dude with the toolbox is usually a tool and a councilor... Listen to the holeshot advice, keep bitching about setup till it works and ride it like you just don't care.

Peace Out :eek:
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

crazypj said:
BTW, you do know the left intake valve spring is fitted upside down? (Picture page 1)
There's far more wrong with that top end than just that. I have done absolutely nothing to this motor since I got it. Right now it's just a mockup machine.
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

crazypj said:
XL motors into RM frames were very common in Britain in the 80's, particularly for Enduro racing and fast trail riding.
The stock frame/suspension was piss poor off raod and blown up RM's relatively cheap.
Usually, the lower frame had to be cut to get sprocket position correct compared to swing arm.
Suzuki SP orDR370/400 into Maico rolling chassis was another pretty neat build although it was about 30bhp less than the original 490 motor
BTW, you do know the left intake valve spring is fitted upside down? (Picture page 1)

^^^^^ that shit! HonZuki only bigGER :eek:
 
Re: XL250 Trans-America Hell Ride

deviant said:
There's far more wrong with that top end than just that. I have done absolutely nothing to this motor since I got it. Right now it's just a mockup machine.

I only mentioned it as people tend to put things together the way they came apart - even if it's wrong
 
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