72 Suzuki Buffalo; Project Buffalo Bill(d)
- Thread starter TurdFurguson
- Start date
Why is your shop starting to look like mine with piles of parts just to get enough good ones for a build or three?
I forget what year yours is, but you will have decisions to make soon as to which parts you will use. For example there were about 4 or 5 crankcase designs. The important thing there is Slide type crabs need early(ish) cases for the oil pump cable but they need to be late enough to have the O ring in the lower crankcase to seal water and keep it out of the oil. I can walk you through that when you get to that point.
I forget what year yours is, but you will have decisions to make soon as to which parts you will use. For example there were about 4 or 5 crankcase designs. The important thing there is Slide type crabs need early(ish) cases for the oil pump cable but they need to be late enough to have the O ring in the lower crankcase to seal water and keep it out of the oil. I can walk you through that when you get to that point.
teazer said:
My bike is a 72, so the old slide model (though it doesn't really matter because I dont have any of the cabling). We will need to go over this. After looking a little harder, I noticed that the cable attachment on the oil dizzy is attached to the motor and not the case like I thought.
Here is the 72
Here is the motor I am hoping to use
My third motor is also a later model with the vacuum carb dizzy.
Oil pumps come in a few designs- see pinkpossum.com for details. The actuating arm on the pump can be swapped from one pump to the other to match the carbs you use. #310 style are cable operated and #312 use that rod linkage to the CV style crabs. Real early 72's used a 3 plunger pump (not so good). Use a later pump and swap the arm if you use the older VM32 slide carbs.
You mentioned oiled distribution. The Octopus, as it is often called, has check valves in it and they can be ruined by forcing com pressed air into them. DO not under any circumstances use compressed air on those lines. Soak them in degreaser or WD40 and flush out with an oil can and test for leaks at the ends.
You mentioned oiled distribution. The Octopus, as it is often called, has check valves in it and they can be ruined by forcing com pressed air into them. DO not under any circumstances use compressed air on those lines. Soak them in degreaser or WD40 and flush out with an oil can and test for leaks at the ends.
We finally got the case split apart last night. Everything looked really good in the transmission side. Most of the seals look brand new until we got to the crank. One of the bearings had blown apart and little pieces of metal were still in the bottom of the case. My assumption is that the motor was rebuilt and they either didn't touch the crank or who ever did messed up the bearing which then destroyed the seals and fucked everything up so it was parked. That or the oil line got blocked and it stopped getting oil to that bearing. Either way, crank rebuilt, new Pistons, bore out the cylinders and we should be back in business.
Attachments
Crank is easy. Bill Bune in MN or your local favorite crank specialist. Seals must all be replaced and are readily available as are gasket sets, but use a decent head gasket.
Bearings do fail. I just had to replace an outer that had failed. Fortunately I had a few good used bearings from other cranks.
Cruizin Image on ebay has a complete set of crank bearings at incredibly good price but I have no idea how good they are. Use that crank and not the one from the 72 and use late style oil seals not early ones with the horseshoe.
See that O ring in the 3rd picture - bottom right corner? That's the later case. Early cases don't have the O ring or enough metal to machine one and water leaks into the oil from that.
That's a lot of mess in left and center cases. I wonder why it's in both unless another bearing is also failing.
Bearings do fail. I just had to replace an outer that had failed. Fortunately I had a few good used bearings from other cranks.
Cruizin Image on ebay has a complete set of crank bearings at incredibly good price but I have no idea how good they are. Use that crank and not the one from the 72 and use late style oil seals not early ones with the horseshoe.
See that O ring in the 3rd picture - bottom right corner? That's the later case. Early cases don't have the O ring or enough metal to machine one and water leaks into the oil from that.
That's a lot of mess in left and center cases. I wonder why it's in both unless another bearing is also failing.
teazer said:
All three of the lower cases were actually that bad. it has the consistency of mud. Not really sure what would have caused it. Already called BillBune and got some info on cost and such from them. Their prices are pretty legit and they have such a good reputation. I have a trusted shop local for head work and jugs, but not sure about their work on cranks, especially 2 stroke stuff since snow mobiles arnt a big deal around here.
The one thing Im concerned about is my water pump shaft. I took the clip off the end (it kinda fell off), but I cant pull it out at all. Is there some trick to getting it out or it this one jammed up? It does spin properly.
Last thing is the tranny, ive never pulled one before, always had someone who knew what they were doing handle them. I want to take it out so I can pressure wash the case, and I want to check the shift forks. Anything special I need to be aware of?
Water pump is easy.
Remove cover
Remove small circlip and impeller
Remove large circlip.
Using a center punch on the shaft from the inside, gently tap it out. The O rings stick to the case. When fitting the pump watch out for the locating pin that MUST engage in the slot in the pump body.
Lift out both tarns shafts, wash them down with kerosene or spray with DW40 to remove old dirt and oil and bag them to avoid dirt and to avoid gears dropping off the shafts.
I never pressure wash cases. I use a stiff brush, simple green or similar and flush that all off in the laundry tub. Air dry - compressed air helps.
Cases have to be immaculate and focus on threads and where the cases mate. Countersink all holes in every case and make sure the mating surfaces are immaculate with no raised lumps around the studs and no gouges.
Remove cover
Remove small circlip and impeller
Remove large circlip.
Using a center punch on the shaft from the inside, gently tap it out. The O rings stick to the case. When fitting the pump watch out for the locating pin that MUST engage in the slot in the pump body.
Lift out both tarns shafts, wash them down with kerosene or spray with DW40 to remove old dirt and oil and bag them to avoid dirt and to avoid gears dropping off the shafts.
I never pressure wash cases. I use a stiff brush, simple green or similar and flush that all off in the laundry tub. Air dry - compressed air helps.
Cases have to be immaculate and focus on threads and where the cases mate. Countersink all holes in every case and make sure the mating surfaces are immaculate with no raised lumps around the studs and no gouges.
Is there any reason NOT to pressure wash the case? I generally take them to a car wash and hit them with soap and rinse. Ive never had issues in the past, but im always open to advice of those who know more than me.
teazer said:
Ha, yeah my plan was to have a bare case. Depends on how hard it is to get the transmission back together if I take it all apart.
Trans is easy to reassemble but you need to replace the circlips if you remove them, and one of the gears has to be pressed off with a 10 ton press. I prefer to just wash the gears and shafts in kerosene and flush them down with WD40. If they seem OK, I just oil them and bag and tag them until I am ready to use them. I also count the teeth to see which trans is in there.
Removing the selector drum and shift forks and shafts is easy IF you can get the cross head screws out.
Removing the selector drum and shift forks and shafts is easy IF you can get the cross head screws out.
The crank was sent out to Bill Bune to be rebuilt, however he came back with an $800 price tag, seems it had alot of issues I couldn't tell. Other than one bearing it all seemed pretty good to me. So, Ive spend the last week back at work trying to pull my other two motors apart. I finally got the 72 jugs off last night, so I still need to get the pistons off and the cases apart to get to its crank, the 74 motor has siezed pistons and will my puller plate I manages to rip most of the threads out of the head bolt holes. Also cant get C-Clamps on it as the newer intake manifolds have the splitter closer to the front which doesn't allow a clamp to attach. So progress is happening, but nothing much to show.
DesertKZ said:
It was pretty messed up, his base charge is only $200, there was almost $600 in parts. I'm hoping that I can get this crank out of the 72 and send to him for parts to help get that cost down.
Could never get the Pistons free on the 73 so I decided to take the bottom end off to see what if anything was worth saving.
Needles to say I got the transmission and water pump out, left the rest for the scrap yard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Needles to say I got the transmission and water pump out, left the rest for the scrap yard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
demoderbydave
New Member
Cool build! I have a 76 I am restoring slowly...
But if you DO DECIDE to scrap the project I WANT that grabrail!!!
But if you DO DECIDE to scrap the project I WANT that grabrail!!!
