XS650 R, built from scratch

A quick introduction is probably in order since i haven`t been active in conversation since I joined a year or so ago. Since then I have gottened married, finished university, moved home and bought my grandparents place (picture below) had our first child( baby girl two weeks ago) and started a sheep ranch here in Alberta. So, after lurking for a couple years, other than a brief start and stop on a xl350 tracker due to major top end issues, the 650 build is commencing!

The new place (Lots of work to do)!


This will not be the quickest of builds, hopefully allowing for a plethora of feedback from the wealth of knowledge you, the dtt community possess!
The bike was found originally in a shelterbelt of trees at my brother-in-laws farm. The previous owner and his sons are a bit notorious for having sticky fingers, so I`m guessing it was a convenient ride home one day. I stumbled upon the bike though at my father in laws ranch, hanging out amongst a jumble of scrap metal! I loaded it up and took it home and stripped the ruined garbage off of it. The wheels and exhaust were found in one of their sheds.

I ended up going through the local cops and they checked to see if it was stolen which it was never reported as such! A quick convo with the last registered owner, who they tracked down for me, and it was mine for the keeping! He was quite happy that I would be attempting to get his old girl back on the road, and told me he had ridden it across the country years ago.

As she was when I brought her home


And a relative inspiration for the direction I would like to go....



More thoughts and pics to follow but I have to head out the door to my little gals two week checkup!

Re: XS650 Racer from a ranch junkyard

Few more things to add. I am a member on xs650.com as well but have developed an affinity for the fine worksmanship over here at dtt. I am aware of a few of the mods done to these bikes, like swingarm upgrades, pma, pamco, etc... but as far as carrying out these things I am definitely a rookie. Growing up on the farm I have some mechanical knowlege but more along the lines of john deere machinery and older chevy truck. This is my first complete tear down and rebuild of a motorcycle, so please be kind in your corrrection but I will welcome any advice given.

I have an original factory manual for it as well the translated german one that was provided in another thread on here.
Now, onto the bike. It is a `72, it turns over with some compression but shows corrosion inside the exhaust ports. I have my brother-in-laws to thank in part for that as it was sitting outside without the headers attached. I haven`t cracked the top end but will post some pictures tomorrow of the engine when I get my camera back from my folks.

My preference for this build is a fully faired street-legal race bike. The level of engine upgrades will depend largely on how many of the old tractors I have kicking around sell over the winter. Probably not the most common predicament I know. However, a few questions. Is the radian swingarm really worth it or is a slightly stretched and properly braced swingarm with bronze bushings nearly as capable?

I also have read that the later model xs's in some markets were available with double disks up front. Any way to fit these to the smaller, earlier model forks or would a fork swap be a must? I also have available to me some modern components, specifically almost an entire 2002 cbr. Would be a fun upgrade but I would also like to retain the spoke wheels. And lastly, as far as handling goes, would changing the rake be anything to consider? I'm not terribly learned when it comes to suspension geometry but I would like to keep a fairly classic 60/70's factory racer look. Would simply installing slighlty longer rear shocks be beneficial? I'm probably forgetting a few things but feel free to comment or ask questions. Looking forward to your responses!

Re: XS650 Racer from a ranch junkyard

That bike looks amazing! I love the fairing. Congratulations on the baby - I've got a first child on the way too - a little girl who is due in 3 days.

Thanks Scott! Hopefully I can return the favor and convey the congrats to you soon! As far the bike goes, i'm hoping to do something a little different, although something along the lines of a street tracker cloned from one of Richard Pollocks was extremely tempting!

The engine is out and torn into a ways. But first......


Frame and tank all by their lonesome

Wiring....shot. Hoses......shot. Wheels were detached so who knows about brakes and such. I can tackle that later. Not sure how straight the front forks are either.
Worst parts of disassembly were I had to grind the chain in two and then pry it off as it was rusted solid. The swingarm bolt is a real pig!!! No luck getting it out so far, any suggestions?


engine on the bench, ready to go

The motor disassembly was carried out as per the instructions in the manual. Not much for surprises as far as things coming apart. If anyone wants to know anything specific about the process, fire away. Here's a few highlights though.

This guy took some pretty good torque to crack, even after sitting overnight bathed in wd40


Top on


Top off!! And looking fairly solid! I couldn't spot any wear, everything had a nice coating of oil. If someone with more knowledge can see something out of whack in the pics, let me know.

And then the reality check hahaha. I knew this would be coming eventually because of the missing headers. The corrosion is in the ports too as is obvious in the pics. Are those valves salvageable? I say this not meaning to sound cheap but because I don't know how easily they clean up and if they are even functional if I did .



Oh, and any reason for the difference in color on the valves from one cyllinder to the other. (Rust vs carbon)






Sorry about the pictures. I was having a terrible time with the light.

The tops of the pistons are even more lovely. A nice layer of prairie dirt on the top of the left one. I imagine these can be cleaned up though? Steel wool probably?



I did remove the jug and after this picture after I had gotten rid of any loose debris on the top of the pistons. Diconnected the pistons and will take more pics tomorrow of them. The cylinders and piston walls look pristine to my amateur eyes!! Maybe get away with just rings and a new cam chain down at this end! Had to leave it at that as my cousin and his wife stopped by to see the baby.

Nice project!

I have an XS650 double disc front end on my Triumph Bonneville, and it works quite nicely. If I recall correctly, the later bikes all had the mount for the second disc, and I believe you can pick the discs and calipers up from a triple.

Since you have to swap out the front end anyway, it might be worthwhile to go with something with larger diameter legs (I am using Kawasaki Zephyr 41mm forks on my KZ750B project).

Have you looked into doing an offset crank? I understand this really smooths out the vibes.

I can't help you on the Radian arm, sorry.

One last thing, WD40 is a crappy penetrating oil. Pick up a can of PB Blaster.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

Thanks 750. I also have an oil called Nutcracker, which seems to be more effective than WD. Those were kinda my thoughts on the front end as well. Going to see if I can grab that cbr front end and do some comparisons on fork length, stem sizes, etc.

I have looked into the rephasing as well. Especially when combined with a 750 big bore, it apparently is a complete game changer. I would however like to get the engine back together without the cost of a new cam and the whole nine yards that comes with a rephase. I have been considering it pretty seriously for something to do down the road though. really like the looks of the stuff Hugh's Handbilt puts out.

Cool project! Congrats on the kiddo and house.

If you want an updated front end, the modern Suzuki SV650 forks are almost a direct bolt on replacement, but 1000x better than the XS ones. They can be had relatively cheaply as well. All you'll need for the install is an AllBalls Bearings kit and some spacers machined to run the XS wheel.

The reason one cylinder has rust/corrosion and the other doesn't would be because one intake valve was open while one was closed.

Keep at it man. The XS is one of my favorite bikes. Can't wait to see yours come together.

From the pics it looks like the valve guides and valve shafts are rusted pretty good, I'd be surprised if they can move at all. If they do move, that amount of rust will tear them up real quick. The top of the combustion chamber can most certainly be cleaned but I'd look into replacing the valves, guides, and seals. Best thing to do would be to see if a local shop can soak the head and pistons in an ultrasonic cleaner for a few cycles, should loosen most of the nasty stuff so its easier to clean without harsh abrasives. Whatever you do, DONT use sandpaper to clean anything.

Von!!! Nice to hear from a veteran of the site!!! I had noticed a couple occurances of that sv swap on the xs650 site as well but didn't know it was as simple as that. Maybe I'll have to sell a couple cbr parts and pick up an sv front end. And good input on the valve color as well. Amazing how simple and obvious something is when someone else points it out.

Bob, they are indeed rusted and seem stuck so I will certainly check out the availability of ultrasonic. We are a bit removed from any major center here but hopefully someone close has one. I had read somewhere that oven cleaner is very effective at taking off carbon deposits which would make sense. However, I thought I would double check before I went down that road. Glad I did as a couple guys had pitted some aluminium manifolds that way. How long they left it exposed I don't know but it doesn't seem worth it. Anyone know if TSP would work? I've heard it works wonders, can cause discoloration to aluminium but supposedly no damage. We use it for cleaning the logs on the inside of our house and shop. Obviously there is a substantial chemical reaction going on but perhaps not a big deal if it is just discoloration and only used on the pistons?

I did a quick search on sv front ends and found a guy parting one out and still has the front end! Waiting to hear back from him. What is a reasonable price to pay for a straight set? One look at ebay and everything on there was 3-500. Seemed a little steep compared to what I had in mind. Von, I'm guessing the swap included the sv calipers and rotors as well?

Well... Depends on how deep you want to go. The SV front wheel is wider than an XS wheel. If you want to use the SV brakes, you'll have to make some adapter plates and spacers to line it all up.

If I were you, and this is just a suggestion, I'd mount the forks using the AllBalls kit. Do the math and have the spacers machined to run the XS wheel. Than drill out the stock rotor for weight reduction (they weigh a ton) and better performance. Use the XS caliper and cut an adapter plate to line it up and mount it to the SV forks.

Sounds mildly complicated, but really isn't difficult. Best part is that in using the majority of your stock front end parts, you'll save tons of money. There's a bunch of guys here who have done similar things on all different types of bikes. With some time, and a good digital caliper for your measurements, I'm sure you can get it all straight.

As far as prices for an SV front end... They really vary. I've seen them for $75 (US) up to $500 (which is ridiculous). Just have to keep shopping around.

Very cool, I put a HHB PMA in mine and couldn't be happier. I'm running a 35v 25,000mf capacitor from the local electronics shop in place of battery and only have good things to say about it. Get some nicer carbs, run some pods or stacks, and the whole area from the carb to the real fender is nice and open, looks great and a real weight saving. If you're gonna get new intakes the hi-vo billet intakes from 650Central are just fantastic, pricey, but really really nice.. keep it up man!

Another guy emailed me this morning. He has a set of straight '78 xs forks but he doesn't know if they are dual. Not sure why it is so hard for him to know whether they are or not. $50 for them though which seems pretty reasonable. I'm really hoping to hear back the the guy with the SV. The stock rotors do indeed weigh a ton, which was why I was hoping on switching. My neighbour has a massive lathe that he can turn pretty much anything on so the spacer issue probably wouldn't be too much of a problem as far as manafacturing goes. Classic Alberta moment this morning. Wake up, and the entire landscape is covered by a couple inches of snow!!! Weren't calling for that! And another four inches supposedly coming tomorrow! So much for riding the thruxton one last time this week.

ugh, and that's why I turn down job offers in Alberta. Its nice and sunny here in Ottawa!

80s and 90s FZR rotors are a direct bolt on flr XS wheels... Just an fyi.

Does anyone know what tank this is?

But we have real mountains to ski on!!! Other than that though, I pretty much hate the cold so I completely understand where you are coming from.

A little elbow grease on the pistons with a dish pad. Not scotch brite, just some plasticy feeling thing.

Before


After


Still a ways to go obviously but it is just some thick stuff in the dimples now.