DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Specials => Topic started by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 05:50:20

Title: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 05:50:20
Hi all,

New to the forum but not so new to building bikes.  I hope to post some projects I have worked on over the years to share some knowledge and experiences - after all I have gained a lot of insight from people posting their own projects on various forums.

This thread will hopefully be mainly focused on a build I am working on now - a 1983 Yamaha SR250.  There are and have been many conversions of this particular bike - I have seen SR250 cafe racers, bobbers, trackers etc, but I am hoping to throw in a couple of original things and am developing parts for sale for it along the way.  The aim/direction is to build a bike that does not conform to any particular style/genre, but rather take cues from many and to create something that looks clean and almost standard in some ways.  I am not a huge fan of extravagant overly worked customs with wacky paint jobs.  Each to his own of coarse!

Hoping to gain and share information and skills working on this bike :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 05:54:12
The original bike was in pretty decent condition.  Almost a shame to cut it up... except for the fact that these bikes are unapologetically ugly in standard trim!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 05:57:22
Investigating a possible seat form and seeing what some tear-drop style handle bars would look like (got a 3D printer at home  ;D)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 06:09:43
Working on lowering the tank to achieve a better line with the frame rails.  Plus looking at how the seat base could be made without removing the stock mudguards that i like.  To remove the original tank mounts, just punch a hole right in the middle of each of the 3 spot welds and drill until the weld is removed - but don't drill through the entire sheet metal thickness.  The mounts should then just pull off with some pliers or something.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 06:54:40
Buying resources of inspiration...  This is a goodn'   ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 06:56:57
Rear frame loop investigation plus another look at above yoke clip-ons.  Also thinking about designing a fork brace for the flimsy 32mm stanchions... 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 07:10:26
Investigating the possibility of running 19" dirt track style tyres for a street tracker style look...  Involves measuring the standard spokes and calculating the percentage increase to get from a 16" rim to a 19" rim.  I also did a quick check to see if the rims/tyres would actually fit using a cardboard rim haha.  Turns out it is too tight for my liking and really exaggerates the flimsiness of the front forks - just look at the contrast from front on with the massive 19" tyre.  Looks goofy.  Yes I could do a front fork conversion - I have done one before with a Yamaha DT400:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xJjccVsdX0

But I want this bike to be a slightly easier build in terms of avoiding adapting parts from other bikes.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 07:36:34
Btw, if anyone has questions about how or why i did a certain thing, please fire away.  I have received so much help from forums over the years and have not really given anything back.  So I hope this can be my chance to give back to the community. 

I got quite a few views on youtube for a SR250 I built 4 years ago when I was a real newb and many people asked for more photos of certain aspects of the bike and if I had documented it online at any time - which I didn't/hadn't.  But this build will be different!  That old bike (which I sold to a friend) can be seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poe4xYO7xK4

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 07:47:16
Feels like this project is all over the show but I want to do everything at once!  Looking at a nicer battery box/tray design that fits the battery and electrics plus maybe a relocated ignition...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 08:09:15
Fork brace measurements and first prototype...  Plus considering a 16" front wheel conversion instead of the 19" conversion.  This will give a more bobberish look.  I always liked bikes that had even rim diameters much more than ones with odd diameters.  I just think it looks 'right'.  I would also like to integrate the front fender into the brace design - so I can eventually shave the forks  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 08:12:33
Back to the drawing board for the brace.  Its one thing to see a sketch of it, then its another thing to print it out in 3D and 'feel' its size and proportions.  And this one was waaay to big and chunky I thought!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2015, 08:20:28
Another attempt at the fork brace - this time much thinner and more in proportion.  Plus another attempt at some above yoke clip-ons.  This time in more of a riser bar style.  I like these a lot more.
Title: Yamaha SR250 Exhaust header
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 23, 2015, 04:08:31
Designed and printed (in pieces) an exhaust headers.  I like the style of header with sharper lines and tighter curves rather than the vincent style swooping bends.  So I tried to match the angles of the frame/engine so it looked right.  Has anyone ever used an exhaust header calculator?  I tried a few but ended up liking this one the best:  http://www.mezporting.com/exhaust_length.html

I also bought and tried reading Philip H. Smiths 'Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems' but it was just too heavy for me.  Most of the principles I understood but I got caught up in all the thousands of possible variables.
Title: Yamaha SR250 battery tray
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 23, 2015, 04:15:51
Seeing how the design fits everything in.  Not too sure about the ignition location...
Title: Yamaha SR250 custom seat
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 23, 2015, 04:28:20
Thought it was about time I figured out what I will do about the seat - for me the key to success for the SR250.  The real make or break.  No better way than to sketch up some ideas and print them out and test them!  Only had time to test the fit for the base of the seat and the mechanical attachment mechanism.  I decided I don't like the new trend of 'lush' plaid, pleated or diamond pattern seats...  I will go for something cleaner - a bit like Roland Sands seat designs for the modern Triumph Bonnevilles maybe  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Jun 23, 2015, 04:46:59
Good start.  I've been working on an sr250 for quite some time also. I've really wanted to do a 16 front wheel conversion. Maybe even put on a 2ls front brake from a 400. I hope to see you do it!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 23, 2015, 05:06:38
Cheers!  How far along are you with your build?  Do you have a build thread?  Yeah, I will keep you posted on the 16" front wheel thing.  A better brake would be awesome actually.  Pretty pricy though I think?

I was wondering if it is possible to just improve the current brake by giving it a little mechanical or hydraulic help...  Like have you seen hydraulic clutch conversions?  Couldn't the same principle be applied to a drum brake?  So you get a better/stronger action from the lever?  Or even one of these things:  http://www.kickstartershop.de/en/Mechanical-clutch-booster
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 23, 2015, 09:03:38
The black bars look waaaaay better than the first attempt.

Very useful exhaust calculations can be found at http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39814.60 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39814.60)
Scroll down to Reply#67

Crazy
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jun 23, 2015, 10:36:26
Have a look at my build in my sig. I'm a big fan of the SR250. If I had 6 in my yard I could build them all different and have a blast doing it. Tracker, brat, bobber, cafe, scrambler, and board tracker.

A very versatile base.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 23, 2015, 13:45:47
Thanks for the links guys.  I really like your build cosworth! Nice job.  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Jun 23, 2015, 16:23:45
Cheers!  How far along are you with your build?  Do you have a build thread?  Yeah, I will keep you posted on the 16" front wheel thing.  A better brake would be awesome actually.  Pretty pricy though I think?

I was wondering if it is possible to just improve the current brake by giving it a little mechanical or hydraulic help...  Like have you seen hydraulic clutch conversions?  Couldn't the same principle be applied to a drum brake?  So you get a better/stronger action from the lever?  Or even one of these things:  http://www.kickstartershop.de/en/Mechanical-clutch-booster
No I don't have a build thread going yet. I really should tho as I have been watching other builds on this site for years now without posting my own. I somehow doubt I'm the only one. I'm fairly far along at this point. Need to do a seat, fenders, tuning and that'll be pretty close to done.
I think we either live with the shitty front brake or swap it out for a better one. I doubt upgrading the stock one would be worth the money. Plus I like the look of a big drum with a small rim.  I haven't looked into sizes or fit or anything yet though
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Jun 23, 2015, 16:28:53
Fyi, 32mm seat post clamps for bicycles fit the fork tubes. It made it really easy and clean to make headlight ears with. Cut some ally plate and hand finish with a file and it turns out pretty nice. Bicycle parts are easy to come by where I live.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 23, 2015, 19:56:56
No I don't have a build thread going yet. I really should tho as I have been watching other builds on this site for years now without posting my own. I somehow doubt I'm the only one. I'm fairly far along at this point. Need to do a seat, fenders, tuning and that'll be pretty close to done.
I think we either live with the shitty front brake or swap it out for a better one. I doubt upgrading the stock one would be worth the money. Plus I like the look of a big drum with a small rim.  I haven't looked into sizes or fit or anything yet though

Its true man, I have built a few bikes and not posted anything while at the same time have read a lot of other peoples threads and learned a lot.  Its never to late to post your stuff!  I got quite a few questions on that video of mine of the first SR I built so I promised myself (and them) that I would do a build thread the next time I worked on a bike.  Did you ever read LunarC's build thread on Perth Street Bikes?  Was a few years ago now but that was an awesome source of information and inspiration.  Too bad he sold the bike to pay for his engagement ring or something!  But a company bought it off him and finished it off into this:  http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2011/09/17/garage-projects-yamaha-sr250-lunacy.html
Title: Yamaha SR250 - 16" front wheel conversion
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 24, 2015, 04:03:19
I searched high and low for a rim the right size.  I was hoping to buy a raw steel rim from Central Wheel and have them drill it to my hub specs.  But they don't stock the 16" rims anymore in 2.15" size.  I emailed a few other places and there are places that can do it, but want minimum orders of 50 and such.  What I ended up doing is buying an old SR250 rear rim and stripping and powder coating it.

I also calculated the spoke lengths for this size rim but they were wrong :(  Time for a reorder...

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Jun 24, 2015, 04:12:01
Yes I have read that build thread. One of the better ones for sure. I was thinking of using a stock rear rim on the front. If you could share your info on the spokes that would be awesome. Very interested to see how yours goes. I'll figure out how to post pics and put a few up. I just got my garage under control and hope to get back at it
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 24, 2015, 04:12:36
Decided to turn my focus back to the seat.  So I have modeled up something I think I like in 3D.  I will then print it out roughly in 3D and see if it works on the bike.  I am hoping to design the seat so that it fits with very little frame modifications and so I can make a production run of them - for other builders working on the SR250.  I have seen many nice SRs ruined with a crappy home job seat (I am one of them - my first SR build).  IMHO it is worth it to fork out a bit extra for the seat because it really does make a bike...

A quick note on seats...  The first seat I made, I made ultra thin - I wanted it to be one of these brat-style slices of foam - as low profile as possible.  After riding that thing for a couple of years I have decided I am over thin seats!  Haha  I actually have turned right off the look of them as well - hence this seat design will be a little thicker, maybe 80mm-ish.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 24, 2015, 09:00:24
Fyi, 32mm seat post clamps for bicycles fit the fork tubes. It made it really easy and clean to make headlight ears with. Cut some ally plate and hand finish with a file and it turns out pretty nice. Bicycle parts are easy to come by where I live.

Thanks for the tip!  Never thought of that.  It seems that 32mm forks are super uncommon in the motorbike world, but like you say 32mm shit must be common on bikes :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 24, 2015, 09:01:58
Yes I have read that build thread. One of the better ones for sure. I was thinking of using a stock rear rim on the front. If you could share your info on the spokes that would be awesome. Very interested to see how yours goes. I'll figure out how to post pics and put a few up. I just got my garage under control and hope to get back at it

Yeah man def, I'll let you know the dims/specs when I get the next order and confirm they are correct.  No use sending you information that is wrong!  Haha, this way I wear the cost of the development

Always good to get the garage under control!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 24, 2015, 09:05:47
First part of the seat done...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Maritime on Jun 24, 2015, 09:13:31
cool build so far. LunarC was a member here and his build was posted here in parallel with the Perth builders site. He had some great ideas and attention to detail for sure.

Cheers
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DesmoBro on Jun 24, 2015, 10:49:20
Chimichanga!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 25, 2015, 05:49:07
Glued the printed seat pieces together but don't like it...  Will make some small adjustments then print another before I start making the base and shaping the foam.

Also got me some YSS shocks from wrenchmonkees to get the frame/tank line right/level.  Went up to 335mm i think?  Plus the rear wheel all laced up.  That was a pretty straight forward affair - take lots of photos of spoke lace pattern, disassemble, measure spokes, order a custom set in stainless from central wheel, powder coat the rim and hub, then lace it all up and have a tyre fitted!  This time a 130/90 Metzler  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 25, 2015, 06:03:55
Lots of stuff arrived yesterday so got a bit done today.  New front wheel spokes were mostly correct this time (will make a document to update with the correct dims) so I laced that up.  Also Got some really cool stuff back from my machinist friend.  The parts are aluminum and anodized in black.  Includes the 2-piece fork brace plus gaiter adapters, the tank lowering kit, a center mount bracket for the speedo and and a top yoke tidy kit.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 25, 2015, 08:35:57
Nice parts!

It's a pity I live on the other side of the planet, otherwise I would ask for an introduction to your friend.

Crazy
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jun 25, 2015, 12:14:51
ok, i'm just gonna throw this out there but if you make some decent 3d printed bits, you have customers.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jun 25, 2015, 21:30:27
Glued the printed seat pieces together but don't like it...  Will make some small adjustments then print another before I start making the base and shaping the foam.

Also got me some YSS shocks from wrenchmonkees to get the frame/tank line right/level.  Went up to 335mm i think?  Plus the rear wheel all laced up.  That was a pretty straight forward affair - take lots of photos of spoke lace pattern, disassemble, measure spokes, order a custom set in stainless from central wheel, powder coat the rim and hub, then lace it all up and have a tyre fitted!  This time a 130/90 Metzler  ;D

So the 3d seat is just a moch up for the new foam seat that will eventually be??

Are there structural specs for the plastic in the printer? Just worried about the fork brace cracking..
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 26, 2015, 03:48:56
So the 3d seat is just a moch up for the new foam seat that will eventually be??

Are there structural specs for the plastic in the printer? Just worried about the fork brace cracking..

Yes exactly, just a mock up.  If I was only planning on making one seat, I would just buy some foam and shape it - will still probably do that for this bike actually.  However, I am planning on making many seats, so I want it to be right.  Thats why I bother to print the full seat in 3D for fitting purposes and to see how the proportions work with the bike.

As for the other plastic prototyped parts, these are also just prototypes.  I build the 3D file, print it out in plastic for a test fit, then make any modifications before I send the final 3D file to my buddy who is a cnc programmer.  I help him with some modelling/design stuff and he machines shit for me.  Pretty sweet relationship.  I have contacts with a couple of local firms too that could do batch production runs of the parts  ;D
Title: Yamaha SR250 - Shaving the front forks
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 27, 2015, 09:49:19
Shaving the forks... without a lathe.  The ghetto method:  Hack off the aluminium fork mount bosses with your weapon of choice (mine was a hacksaw), grind smooth(ish) with a grinder - pref a flapper disc (be careful here not to take off too much - you cannot add material later, file back roughly with a metal file, using an old automotive panelbeating trick, paint the area you are wanting to smooth, then file lightly again - this will highlight your low spots and your high spots and give you a better idea where to file.  It really helps if you have an automotive file - one with big chunky waves almost - i picked up mine for a couple of bucks from a second hand store.  It keeps things pretty even.  Repeat this painting and filing process as many times as you like until you feel you have shit pretty smooth.  Then just sand with wetndry sand paper - i didnt go too hardout here because i wont be polishing them anyways - not a fan of shiny shit.  I will probs just beadblast then paint, but maybe not even paint?  Will have to see what they turn out like.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 27, 2015, 09:58:08
Test fit the speedo center mount bracket and top yoke tidy kit.  Looks sweet!  Gotta make a couple of adjustments to the 3D files and 2D drawings if I was to make a bulk order, but these were pretty close for prototypes.

Also, just finished my other bike project - a mashtard Honda XL600V.  This was a scrappy as hell build with many rushed hand made parts and first attempts at many different things - welding sheet metal, welding stainless tuning downdraft carbs etc etc.  Turned out a bit like a mad max bike haha ratty as fuck.  I am hoping to redo everything to a much higher standard next winter.  Heres hoping right? 
Title: Yamaha SR250 - 16 inch front wheel
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 27, 2015, 10:06:35
Yus!  Got the 120/90 metzler front tyre (actually a rear running in reverse) fitted yesterday and it looks dope.  All chunky like.

Then I tested the fitment of the fork brace properly and fitted up a 3D printed fender.  Not convinced on the size, shape or position of the fender but it is in the right direction.  The fork brace came out great though - the gaiter adapters work well and the gaiters I found are the perfect size - diameter wise top and bottom and lengthwise too (hate that 'smooshed gaiters that were too long' look).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jun 28, 2015, 17:37:40
A better brake would be awesome actually.  Pretty pricy though I think?
Probably way too late for you on this project, but I have seen where the Yam XV250 Virago whole front end will fit on to the SR250 with an AllBalls kit. Then you get a front disk brake and 33 mm fork tubes, but you would still have an 18" spoke rim.

Very interesting prototyping! Let us know when/where you decide to market your finalized parts.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 29, 2015, 09:40:10
Yeah too late now, but goods tips for any future SR250 builds.  That would have been mint.  I think thats the same conversion I did for my DT400 project actually - so I could get the single front disc instead of the ratty drum brake.

Will put up a link to a webshop when parts are made and ready to sell  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 29, 2015, 10:19:22
Couple things today...  received a nice photo from my exhaust contact - hoping to receive it in the mail before the end of the week if he sends it today.  Plus testing out the battery box prototype in aluminium - got a couple of things that need adjusting if I were to make an order.  Then I got thinking where I would like to re-locate the ignition too...  I think somewhere up the front in the front of the tank.  Looks cool there.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 03, 2015, 03:55:37
Finally got to test fit the exhaust.  I like the look and shape - I think the bends and lines work with the engine and frame nicely.  If I were to order in bulk to be able to sell them I would make a few small adjustments but these will be slick headers!  The only aftermarket one for the SR250 that I know of?

Also, spent a lot of time fixing my mates scooter.  Damn I hate scooters.  It had about 60psi of compression and stuffing some oil in the plug hole bought it up to 80psi so it could run for a minute or so.  So I suspected bad rings or cylinder wear.  But when I opened to valve cover it turned out just to be a tight exhaust valve that wasn't closing properly (bad service from the last dude that worked on it I suspect).  Once that was set straight the compression came up to 120.  Just good enough to run for another season or so!

Also got to test the ignition relocation bracket I prototyped.  Would there be any interest for these?  Rekon it looks/will look quite nifty ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Jul 04, 2015, 17:55:05
Bike is looking great. Love the look of the front wheel! I'm sure you'll get a few haters on the performance tho. So it's a stock sr250 rear rim on the front right? How did you measure for spokes?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Knuckles on Jul 04, 2015, 18:59:41
That front wheel has some serious attitude. That is the one thing that I have been pondering since I started tinkering with my 81 SR several months ago.... You seem to have found an amazing looking solution, although I am still curious about the performance. A+ on appearance! Can't wait to see how it turns out....
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - 16 inch front wheel
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 06, 2015, 11:54:19
Yus!  Got the 120/90 metzler front tyre (actually a rear running in reverse) fitted yesterday and it looks dope.  All chunky like.
Did the front tire choice force shaving the OEM front fender mounts? it looks like the tire might still be touching the fork legs, and may be why I'd heard that the largest practical front tire size is 100/90-18.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - 16 inch front wheel
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 07, 2015, 03:11:09
Did the front tire choice force shaving the OEM front fender mounts? it looks like the tire might still be touching the fork legs, and may be why I'd heard that the largest practical front tire size is 100/90-18.

No, actually the 120 tyre would have fit with the fender mounts in place.  However, the fender would not have.  If you wanted to use the fender mounts to actually mount a fender with the 120 tyre, you would have to make some custom brackets to clear it.

And no, the 120 tyre is not even close to touching the fork legs.  In fact, I wish I had ordered a 130 tyre for it and it would have looked even more badass.  Because the thing is, the options for 120 front tyes is very slim, while there are many options for 130mm front tyres - due to harleys and other japanese cruisers.

I also know that a 4.00 - 19 front tyre will fit.  It just looks a little goofy!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2015, 07:43:43
Bike is looking great. Love the look of the front wheel! I'm sure you'll get a few haters on the performance tho. So it's a stock sr250 rear rim on the front right? How did you measure for spokes?

I dont understand the haters.  Are they just wanting to hate?  Or do they have a genuine concern for my safety when riding this motorcycle with a 16'' front wheel?  At the end of the day, we are talking about a bike with 239cc's and between 17-20rwhp depending on which model.  Really that dangerous?  I have seen many bikes with a 16'' front wheel, even race bikes.  Even down to 15''!  So I am sure it will be no problem  ;)  The front end of this try hard chopper (stock) has so much rake in it that dropping the front end and raising the rear will improve the handling capabilities anyway.  Also, if you are ever interested/wanting to check tyre comparrisons, check out this comparison tool.  It even has a visualiser which is really neat.  The diameter difference between stock and the new tyre are not much at all  ;D 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=90-90r19-120-90r16

As for the spokes, it was a percentage calculation I did to get the right lengths and angles.  I messed it up once but then adjusted and ordered again.  Now they are perfect.  Thats the way R&D goes I guess.  I will be selling these spoke kits on a webstore soon if you are interested?  I could send you one of the first kits that I get?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 08, 2015, 11:51:25
It may be more of a concern for the greater amount of front tire weight creating a greater gyroscopic force. Regardless, looking forward to actual riding tests to see how this new combination works out.

And looking forward to the availability of specialty SR250 parts (especially the header and front fork brace/fender)! Given the long world-wide model run, you might have a winning product line.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 08, 2015, 13:40:59
As I was welding my stainless header last night, as much as I love fabrication, I would have preferred to just buy one.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2015, 18:14:56
Thanks for the support/interest.  I am just confirming some final changes then the exhaust headers will be ready for sale.  I will be able to sell them for around 145euro - which is around the price you would pay for a header for the SR400.  Except I personally know my supplier and the materials and processes he uses, rather than ordering from a factory on the other side of the world where I cannot control the quality or the materials  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2015, 18:19:57
Got some time in the workshop the last couple days and moulded up a fiberglass seat pan and started to shape the foam.  Eventually, once the prototyping is sorted and if it comes out any good, I will pay for some tooling to be made to make a small series production run of it.  In the beginning it will be very labour intensive to create the seats but I am still hoping to produce them for a competitive price :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Jul 09, 2015, 13:48:00
I dont understand the haters.  Are they just wanting to hate?  Or do they have a genuine concern for my safety when riding this motorcycle with a 16'' front wheel?  At the end of the day, we are talking about a bike with 239cc's and between 17-20rwhp depending on which model.  Really that dangerous?  I have seen many bikes with a 16'' front wheel, even race bikes.  Even down to 15''!  So I am sure it will be no problem  ;)  The front end of this try hard chopper (stock) has so much rake in it that dropping the front end and raising the rear will improve the handling capabilities anyway.  Also, if you are ever interested/wanting to check tyre comparrisons, check out this comparison tool.  It even has a visualiser which is really neat.  The diameter difference between stock and the new tyre are not much at all  ;D 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=90-90r19-120-90r16

As for the spokes, it was a percentage calculation I did to get the right lengths and angles.  I messed it up once but then adjusted and ordered again.  Now they are perfect.  Thats the way R&D goes I guess.  I will be selling these spoke kits on a webstore soon if you are interested?  I could send you one of the first kits that I get?
I'm not against big tires at all. I think they look cool. And I agree. On a 20hp bike at best. What's the difference anyway. I have lowered the forks on mine about 2" and I completely agree it wakes it up a bit. I would be very interested in a spoke kit once available. Same with a fork brace. Anyway, great looking bike. Very interested in how it turns out
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 09, 2015, 15:59:29
Thanks for the support/interest.  I am just confirming some final changes then the exhaust headers will be ready for sale.  I will be able to sell them for around 145euro - which is around the price you would pay for a header for the SR400. 

I paid $90 CDN for a just a J bend of stainless from Lordco. After cutting it, welding it, polishing it, messing around with it....yeah $145euro is fantastic as long as the shipping isn't 200euro lol.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 10, 2015, 10:29:19
I am just confirming some final changes then the exhaust headers will be ready for sale.  I will be able to sell them for around 145euro - which is around the price you would pay for a header for the SR400.  Except I personally know my supplier and the materials and processes he uses, rather than ordering from a factory on the other side of the world where I cannot control the quality or the materials  ;)

Suggestion - contact MikesXS (http://www.mikesxs.net/ (http://www.mikesxs.net/)) to see if they would be a distributor of your SR250 parts in North America since they are already an established organization with very good reputation.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 10, 2015, 16:01:15
MikesXS only deal in the United States. They don't ship to Canada or Mexico. Not shipping to Canada is like saying "We don't ship to California." Shipping from America is sometimes double what is is from the Eurozone. And it is trucked by land...

MikesXS uses xs650direct.com as a Canadian distributor. They don't carry SR parts.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 10, 2015, 18:47:02
"As a distributor" not THE distributor. It's far easier to hook up to an established retailer than try to create your own marketing channel. MikesXS doesn't carry SR250 parts either, but they do carry SR500 parts so it should not be a stretch. Maybe XS650 Direct would also expand their product line.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 12, 2015, 07:01:02
Interesting suggestion with MikesXS.  I have bought many parts from them over the years - many of the universal parts have been good for my projects.

I finished shaping up the foam of the seat and covered it with a thin sheet foam to smooth things over.  I like this shape a lot more than the last.  When I start production of this seat I will tweak it slightly once again - just some of the angles are not quite right.  Also saw a seat I like the look of so will take that picture to the upholsterer.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 12, 2015, 15:30:27
I finished shaping up the foam of the seat and covered it with a thin sheet foam to smooth things over.  I like this shape a lot more than the last.  When I start production of this seat I will tweak it slightly once again - just some of the angles are not quite right.  Also saw a seat I like the look of so will take that picture to the upholsterer.

Did you give it a "test sit" for an extended time? It looks to me like the upper part that would actually provide the most support is fairly narrow and I would be suspect of the sharp transition angles on the sides.
See:
http://www.diymotorcycleseat.com/comfort.htm (http://www.diymotorcycleseat.com/comfort.htm)

http://www.diymotorcycleseat.com/modify_2.htm (http://www.diymotorcycleseat.com/modify_2.htm)

http://www.diymotorcycleseat.com/modify_3.htm (http://www.diymotorcycleseat.com/modify_3.htm)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: manolon6 on Jul 13, 2015, 06:14:49
Really good job!!!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 13, 2015, 14:40:57
Did you give it a "test sit" for an extended time? It looks to me like the upper part that would actually provide the most support is fairly narrow and I would be suspect of the sharp transition angles on the sides.

I sat on it for a bit to see how it feels, and it feels pretty good!  Its a bit hard to test the comfort of an unfinished seat on an unrideable bike  ;D  I guess I could set it up on a bench in front of the tv or something though right?

The seat is pretty soft foam, so the transition angles just mush when you sit on it.  The area that you actually sit on is the widest point of the seat so your ass is pretty well supported.  Good links there for future reference for comfy seats.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 13, 2015, 15:43:21
Beautiful work man.  I think the hard angles on the top are ok.  Are you going to have a seam there in the cover to maintain the visual edge?  I think that would look good.  My $0.02 is to remove the body line in the middle of the sides and replace it with a smooth curved shape so the seat styling better matches the styling of the tank.  Another thing about trying to make corners or hard edges in the foam for styling purposes is that it is often very difficult to keep that body line sharp and straight looking after the padding and cover are done.  If there is not a seam on top of it to help teach the eye that the corner is fair and straight, it can look lumpy and wavy - especially over time.  Otherwise I think the shape is right on.  Gonna be a nice motorcycle when you are done.  Kudos for documenting!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 14, 2015, 08:04:35
Beautiful work man.  I think the hard angles on the top are ok.  Are you going to have a seam there in the cover to maintain the visual edge?  I think that would look good.  My $0.02 is to remove the body line in the middle of the sides and replace it with a smooth curved shape so the seat styling better matches the styling of the tank.  Another thing about trying to make corners or hard edges in the foam for styling purposes is that it is often very difficult to keep that body line sharp and straight looking after the padding and cover are done.  If there is not a seam on top of it to help teach the eye that the corner is fair and straight, it can look lumpy and wavy - especially over time.  Otherwise I think the shape is right on.  Gonna be a nice motorcycle when you are done.  Kudos for documenting!

Thanks man.  Yeah the original idea was to have a seam at each transition, but then I realised it would be too 'busy' and expensive to make - because of all the seam work.  Then I decided to just have a seam along where I have drawn the black lines on the white foam.  You make a really good point about the angles/transitions/curves.  I think much more will get lost than what I was originally thinking.  So its better to design for the process/material rather than trying to fight it.  It will be interesting to see what has happened when it comes back from the upholsterer  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 14, 2015, 08:18:03
Just got mail!  A billet machined rear loop in aluminium to be screwed in place, plus the ignition relocation bracket I designed  ;D

I couldnt find anyone who could bend 7/8'' tube as tight as I wanted to suit my design, so I designed the rear loop to be machined instead - hence the half round, half flat profile (only the half round will be seen).  This allowed me to do it in solid aluminium and to fasten it in place with M6 screws and lock washers.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 14, 2015, 13:37:36
Decided I like the new trend of actually having side covers...  So I modeled up some super slim ones that hug the frame much better and fit the form of the frame rails and new seat  :D

In the past I have been a big fan of the 'emtpy/clean triangle' but my tastes have developed haha.  Now that area does just look, well, empty? Plus it means you miss out on the opportunity of giving the bike another design detail/more character.  Case in point:

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 14, 2015, 13:39:55
3D model to be prototyped:
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Jul 14, 2015, 15:36:41
I love sidecovers. nice work.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: canyoncarver on Jul 14, 2015, 15:49:46
Cool stuff, groovy scoot.  I dig the 3d print prototyping.  I need to learn that skill.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: teazer on Jul 15, 2015, 00:38:07
Yes to well designed side covers.  On mine I just moved them forward to line up with the rear edge of the tank, made them 2" less wide each and made them out of carbon fiber.  They worked out OK but not as nice as a 3D print or machined prototype would be. 

The point is that side covers can look good and there are many ways to make them look right.  Yours should look really nice.  Good work.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 16, 2015, 15:38:14
A mint day here in southern Sweden so it was out for a ride with the rat bike.  Already got plans for it for next winter  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on Jul 16, 2015, 16:16:44
Decided I like the new trend of actually having side covers...  So I modeled up some super slim ones that hug the frame much better and fit the form of the frame rails and new seat  :D

In the past I have been a big fan of the 'emtpy/clean triangle' but my tastes have developed haha.  Now that area does just look, well, empty? Plus it means you miss out on the opportunity of giving the bike another design detail/more character.  Case in point:

   That CB360 is a great looking bike
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 17, 2015, 07:45:06
Picked this up today...  Liking it  8)

Will have to see how it looks/fits on the bike.

Oh yeah, I had some embroidered labels made too - in anticipation of a small production run  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 17, 2015, 08:00:58
Was really hoping to get this bike done in time for this riding season, but it is looking more and more like it will not be complete until winter, autumn at best.  So I was looking back through some photos of my fist SR build to get some inspiration to keep at it! 

Thinking about producing some of these 'melting/dripping' Yamaha decals as well.  Inspiration came from Alice in Wonderland believe it or not!  That scene from 'paint the roses red'!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JohnGoFast on Jul 17, 2015, 10:14:23
That seat turned out great!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 21, 2015, 11:55:22
Tested the fit of the seat and the prototype side covers today.  The seat is pretty awesome for a first off sample.  However I would not be satisfied if it were from a batch production run, so I have a little work to do there. 

The side covers on the other hand were a different story - at the front and the top sides they fit well, but the back sides did not match the frame at all.  Oh well, just need to make some adjustments to my 3D model then try another couple of prototypes I guess!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 21, 2015, 13:19:12
Very good first efforts! I think your second photo is very telling - it looks like neither the seat nor the side panels follow the bike frame's vertical plane (i.e., seen from above) and so look out of place. The seat looks like it needs to be narrower at the tank end and flair out more at the shock mounts. Likewise, the side panels look fairly good at the rear (except for not following the frame downtubes completely) but protrudes too much at the front. [Edit - I went back to your 2-D drawings and you can see it there too.] Probably due to the frame plane twisting inward in that area. The side panels may also look better (less visual weight) if they did not extend as low. Try it in a drawing first to see which way you prefer.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 21, 2015, 15:09:04
Very good first efforts! I think your second photo is very telling - it looks like neither the seat nor the side panels follow the bike frame's vertical plane (i.e., seen from above) and so look out of place. The seat looks like it needs to be narrower at the tank end and flair out more at the shock mounts. Likewise, the side panels look fairly good at the rear (except for not following the frame downtubes completely) but protrudes too much at the front. [Edit - I went back to your 2-D drawings and you can see it there too.] Probably due to the frame plane twisting inward in that area. The side panels may also look better (less visual weight) if they did not extend as low. Try it in a drawing first to see which way you prefer.

You are right zap.  However, with the SR250 frame and designing a seat for it, its a bit of a tricky task.  Just because the frame rails come so tight at where the rear of the tank connects to the frame.  So then it becomes a decision (personal preference maybe) as to whether or not to follow the frame rails the whole way (and end up with a very very thin seat at the front - and possibly not even cover the tank bolt - ala attached), or only follow the frame rails at the rear (like I have done) and then match the edges of the tank at the front of the seat instead.  Personally, as nice as the La Corona custom is, I am not a fan of the seats shape/form.

 Another option, which would probably be ugly, would be to design the seat so that it hangs over the frame rails and covers them - thus creating a clean uniform line.  But I kinda like seeing the frame rails there at the rear.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 21, 2015, 15:32:02
Zap you got me all curious now!  Just been checking what other builders have done with the SR (some I like much more than others).  Also checking some aftermarket seats for the Triumph Bonneville and the Scrambler...  Its seems some of the cover the frame rails entirely and look pretty good!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 21, 2015, 16:27:46
You are right zap.  However, with the SR250 frame and designing a seat for it, its a bit of a tricky task.  Just because the frame rails come so tight at where the rear of the tank connects to the frame.  So then it becomes a decision (personal preference maybe) as to whether or not to follow the frame rails the whole way (and end up with a very very thin seat at the front - and possibly not even cover the tank bolt - ala attached), or only follow the frame rails at the rear (like I have done) and then match the edges of the tank at the front of the seat instead.
Right, but what I'm proposing is only a slight change to your original design - just slightly narrower at the tank (will not affect comfort as you will be sitting further back), and slightly wider at the shock mounts (just enough to match the frame). The padded tank overlap you have designed at the front will take care of the tank rear/seat front issue. The side panels may be a different story. Maybe more of a curved slope at the top/front edge so as to better match the frame coupled with either a higher bottom line or a stepped design so that the panel is the same overall height but has more of a visual "thinness".
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 21, 2015, 16:59:16
The rear was the hardest part of my build. I had to mate a pre purchased seat to the rear of the bike. I think it's easier to do the rear the way you want and make a seat to match. That path is best for scramblers and trackers, harder to follow on a cafe build though with lines being critical.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 21, 2015, 17:20:33
Right, but what I'm proposing is only a slight change to your original design - just slightly narrower at the tank (will not affect comfort as you will be sitting further back), and slightly wider at the shock mounts (just enough to match the frame). The padded tank overlap you have designed at the front will take care of the tank rear/seat front issue. The side panels may be a different story. Maybe more of a curved slope at the top/front edge so as to better match the frame coupled with either a higher bottom line or a stepped design so that the panel is the same overall height but has more of a visual "thinness".

Right, gotcha.  Will give it a shot in my model and see what it looks like.  Cheers.

Also kinda get what you mean with the side covers too.  You are right, the area where the frame seems to 'bulge' out at the front is kinda hard to follow so some kind of step maybe...

Interesting to hear what cosworth is saying too - that the rear end of the SR is pretty much the hardest thing to get right because its so whacky from the beginning to fit that stupid king and queen style seat!  I think if I build an SR for myself after this one, I will def just cut it up and weld in some nicer frame rails ;)

I would really like to design a seat that a home builder could install easily though - without a welder etc.  Hence the sort of 'work-a-rounds'.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 21, 2015, 17:36:22
Right, gotcha.  Will give it a shot in my model and see what it looks like.  Cheers.

Also kinda get what you mean with the side covers too.  You are right, the area where the frame seems to 'bulge' out at the front is kinda hard to follow so some kind of step maybe...

Interesting to hear what cosworth is saying too - that the rear end of the SR is pretty much the hardest thing to get right because its so whacky from the beginning to fit that stupid king and queen style seat!  I think if I build an SR for myself after this one, I will def just cut it up and weld in some nicer frame rails ;)

I would really like to design a seat that a home builder could install easily though - without a welder etc.  Hence the sort of 'work-a-rounds'.
Actually I'm proposing more of a curve at the front/top of the side panels and a horizontal step part-way down (or a narrower panel) so that the top/side edges of the panel meet the frame rails better and it has less visual weight. Kind of like the OEM panels from the RD350 or 550/650 Secas. Your present design reminds me more of the OEM Kawasaki KZ400 panels.

You designing parts that fit an un-modified bike that others can use - more power to you! This is what I think is the beauty of your project!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: pigp3n on Jul 21, 2015, 23:57:02
This one was still my favorite sr250 seat shape
(http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/yamaha-sr250-cafe-racer-3.jpg)

little taller
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Jul 22, 2015, 01:39:47
+1
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 22, 2015, 06:05:34
This one was still my favorite sr250 seat shape

little taller

I do really like that seat.  Just a little stumpy for my taste :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 22, 2015, 06:09:58
Actually I'm proposing more of a curve at the front/top of the side panels and a horizontal step part-way down (or a narrower panel) so that the top/side edges of the panel meet the frame rails better and it has less visual weight. Kind of like the OEM panels from the RD350 or 550/650 Secas. Your present design reminds me more of the OEM Kawasaki KZ400 panels.

You designing parts that fit an un-modified bike that others can use - more power to you! This is what I think is the beauty of your project!

Thanks!  And I really appreciate the input.  I googled all of the model bikes you mention and you were spot on!  Haha.  I modelled up another couple of concepts, another one like you say the KZ400 panels are, but fitting the frame better and having a slightly better shape.  The other one I played around with the other style of cover - with a nice form at the top and sort of a flat part at the bottom.  It still needs a little work but it is interesting to see the visual impact of the different styles...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: FerousBastard on Jul 23, 2015, 17:29:15
I like your style, a 3D printer is a powerful tool in the right hands and ace for trying out design-ideas on your bikes, keep it up 8)
Though I'd say mind the lines of the tank, unless you plan to change it; your seat and sidecovers follow and compliment the angular lines of the engine and frame beautifully, but mind the tank and its rounded shape or it might look out of place in the end.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 25, 2015, 07:10:37
Thanks Ferous, yeah it has been invaluable to have the 3D printer.  I have used it for a lot of other projects too but it has been most helpful for this one.  It really speeds up the development process and helps make decisions faster and safer - before they are made in metal :)

I recommend watching that documentary 'Print the Legend' about the 3D printing boom.  Was really good entertainment.

I see what you mean about the tank.  Ideally, I would make a tank for it too, which I have done in the past but my skills are just not quite at that level yet.  I think it would look cool with more of a dirt track style tank - the angular style rather than the teardrop style.  One of my all time favourite tanks/tank shapes is the Kenny Roberts TZ750 tank.  It has been on many other bikes too of course but it looks best on that bike I think.  I think it would also look half decent on the SR  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 25, 2015, 07:22:33
On Friday I finally found a local contact that could make the above top yoke riser clip ons for me.  A prototype at least anyway.  I found some really good Swedish workshops to work with that could make a production run for a decent price, but their hourly charge rate for prototypes was insane.  So this guy (who builds race cars for a living!)  Will help me with the first set instead for a decent price.  His workshop was so sweet - all types of welders, big lathes, milling machines, tube bending etc etc.  Some day right?

I also printed out a second attempt at the side covers with some of zaps input.  At least the idea of making less of a visual impact and not having them hang so low.  I really like the look of these ones.  As long as everything behind them is painted black, the should look pretty close to some carefully considered 'stock' ones.  But they are much tighter to the frame than any stock ones I have seen.

Plus a last small modification to the exhaust for a better fitment and line to match the tank/seat line before taking orders :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: FerousBastard on Jul 25, 2015, 10:07:57
Definetly dig the lines of that TZ750, something similar would look rad on your SR250.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 25, 2015, 12:10:16
I see what you mean about the tank.  Ideally, I would make a tank for it too, which I have done in the past but my skills are just not quite at that level yet.  I think it would look cool with more of a dirt track style tank - the angular style rather than the teardrop style.  One of my all time favourite tanks/tank shapes is the Kenny Roberts TZ750 tank.  It has been on many other bikes too of course but it looks best on that bike I think.  I think it would also look half decent on the SR  ;)
That's the beauty of your proposed tank mount adapter thingy - you could adapt a variety of tanks as long as the tunnel clearance was good.

RE: your header - I believe your previous one was longer, going past the peg and further underneath the brake pedal. I think longer is better (maybe even a little longer than that so that it completely clears the frame junction) - less interference with clamps if you want a silencer, and it is easier to make it shorter than longer if someone wanted it ;D.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Jul 25, 2015, 12:14:05
Were in Sweden are you located? I'm currently living in Nybro but I'm going to move back to Lund in a year after I'm done with my bachelor in product design. Would be nice to know what workshops you been in contact with for future projects. Is it solidworks you are working in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: teazer on Jul 25, 2015, 12:24:54
On Friday I finally found a local contact that could make the above top yoke riser clip ons for me.  A prototype at least anyway.  I found some really good Swedish workshops to work with that could make a production run for a decent price, but their hourly charge rate for prototypes was insane.  So this guy (who builds race cars for a living!)  Will help me with the first set instead for a decent price.  His workshop was so sweet - all types of welders, big lathes, milling machines, tube bending etc etc.  Some day right?

I also printed out a second attempt at the side covers with some of zaps input.  At least the idea of making less of a visual impact and not having them hang so low.  I really like the look of these ones.  As long as everything behind them is painted black, the should look pretty close to some carefully considered 'stock' ones.  But they are much tighter to the frame than any stock ones I have seen.

Plus a last small modification to the exhaust for a better fitment and line to match the tank/seat line before taking orders :)


Side covers are getting there.  For the exhaust, it would probably look better tucked in much tighter in front of the motor and below it.  You could also sweep it back at a sharper angle to look more racey. Somewhat like an old school swept nack pipe but keeping it below the motor.  Or go with a classic TT look under the centerline of the motor. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 26, 2015, 14:10:12
That's the beauty of your proposed tank mount adapter thingy - you could adapt a variety of tanks as long as the tunnel clearance was good.

RE: your header - I believe your previous one was longer, going past the peg and further underneath the brake pedal. I think longer is better (maybe even a little longer than that so that it completely clears the frame junction) - less interference with clamps if you want a silencer, and it is easier to make it shorter than longer if someone wanted it ;D.

Yeah, was hoping that kit would make it a bit easier for people to get different lines with the tank on their bikes, plus trying other tanks.

Re the exhaust, yeah, I wanna make sure the clamp position to the header and silencer is not gonna hit the brake pedal or frame.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 26, 2015, 14:11:30
Were in Sweden are you located? I'm currently living in Nybro but I'm going to move back to Lund in a year after I'm done with my bachelor in product design. Would be nice to know what workshops you been in contact with for future projects. Is it solidworks you are working in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im living in Malmö and my workshop is in Arlöv.  Yeah man, get in touch when you come down.  Yep, solidworks :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Jul 26, 2015, 17:08:44
Though I recognized the background in the picture. Is it your own workshop or do you rent a space? I had a hard time to fined someplace to harbor my bike when I lived in Lund. Nowadays I can keep it in the school workshop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 27, 2015, 02:59:01
I rent a big space - its actually a converted laundry basement.  Yeah, I had a really hard time finding a space too - especially in Malmö.  Thats why I ended up in Arlöv haha. Nice you have a place now.  Is your bike functional?  It would be cool to meet up for a ride sometime :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 27, 2015, 05:08:13

Side covers are getting there.  For the exhaust, it would probably look better tucked in much tighter in front of the motor and below it.  You could also sweep it back at a sharper angle to look more racey. Somewhat like an old school swept nack pipe but keeping it below the motor.  Or go with a classic TT look under the centerline of the motor.

Thanks Teazer.  I considered quite a few exhaust designs, but I decided I liked the pipe following the frame downtube line and having 2 simple bends - nice, clean and simple.  I do like other designs - attached, but for this build it should be simple.  This pipe is a low slung pipe and in the future I plan on designing and selling a high slung pipe like was sold with the XT250 (rambo bike ;D) and the XT500s of course. 

I def agree with you about keeping the pipe closer to the motor - after this prototype I have modified it so it is a whole 30mm tighter to the bottom of the motor and it looks a lot better :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 27, 2015, 05:10:11
Heres some ideas of where i took influence from...  I really like the angles of these pipes over the stock ones (first image).  In the other 2 images you can see the pipe is much more angular, simpler and matches the frame downtube.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 27, 2015, 11:07:34
I like this angle and how close to the motor it is:

(http://i.imgur.com/PTgXTVQ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/uyhyZOm.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 27, 2015, 14:11:27
I agree that the header looks better (for the type of bike being built in this discussion thread) if it closely follows the front frame downtube angle.
I really like this photo:
(http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=66505.0;attach=151505;image)
It shows the header following the downtube angle, then across the bottom of the engine line, and having a little kickup at the end. Good for most street builds that are not using rearset foot controls (e.g., street trackers, urban builds, etc.)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 27, 2015, 17:02:38
Yeah your header came out mint.  I think I might try making mine tighter to the motor like yours.  I'll see what it looks like with the next prototype. 

Btw, where did you route your crankcase breather?  I see a hose going to the carb boot?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 27, 2015, 18:38:24
I remember the last SR I built and rode seemed to run pretty cool, but every now and then on a hot Australian day it would start to get real hot, maybe as all air cooled engines do.  But I would worry about it because of all the time I had spent on it I didn't want to score bores, burn valves or wear cams unnecessarily due to oil breaking down too fast in the extreme heat.

So I started looking into oil coolers for it...  To my surprise, there were/are none.  I found that it is a really common mod on the TW200 - see below.  But not on the SR.  I found an image of a crank case that had been modified to accept some bango/nipple fittings so a cooler could be plumped in (also see below), but no real bolt on kit.  I looked into doing the crankcase mod myself and it wouldn't be too hard, but perhaps a little difficult for a hobby builder spinning spanners.

Then, I found some finned oil filter covers - of various designs.  But these look like they wouldn't do shit and are more just for decoration.  Would I be right?  Motolana sells a few different ones:  http://www.motolanna.com/ourshop/prod_1916453-Oil-Filter-Cover-Finned-Die-Cast-Alloy.html
http://www.motolanna.com/ourshop/prod_452749-Oil-Filter-Cover-Finned-CNC-Alloy.html

My thinking is that to be able to have any effect, the cover would have to have some small reservoir to A) increase oil capacity slightly and B) to let the oil sit slightly longer (thus cooling a few degrees) before circulating again, pus C) relatively large cooling fins to dissipate the heat.  Then I found this cool post by a guy over at the XS650 forum:  http://xs650forum.proboards.com/thread/3008/finned-valve-cover-temps

A lot of his parts, testing, discoveries and findings were very interesting and pretty successful it seamed.  So this idea could work - design a CNC machined 'proper cooling' oil filter cover for the SR.  Then I found the Hugh's Hand Built one they did for the XS and it also seems to have been tested and works well!  The part description mentions some of the things I considered... http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/yamaha-xs650-bolt-on-oil-cooler.html

I rekon I might make a prototype and do some testing!  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 27, 2015, 19:36:06
I don't think a cover will do anything - just not enough oil in contact and too small a surface area. The idea of an external cooler might have some merit. But looks are deceiving - see the discussion of an external adapter for the TW200/XT225 vs the XT250 (the newer ones): http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/973440-xt225-and-tw200-oil-cooler/ (http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/973440-xt225-and-tw200-oil-cooler/).

And another oil cooler discussion that seems to favor using an abundance of synthetic MC oil (and a richer tune) rather than adding-on additional plumbing due to cold oil flow and leak issues: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/adding-an-oil-cooler-to-xt250.956677/ (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/adding-an-oil-cooler-to-xt250.956677/).

I know my '94 XT600E has a dry sump (oil in frame) so it would be easy to add the plumbing (but I've not seen any owners who have - the frame surface does a pretty good job) and the Yamaha multi-cylinder street bikes have a front-mounted filter cover that protrudes the entire length of the filter. But even in those cases a filter cover adapter is used to plumb-in an external cooler rather than using filter cover fins or something else.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 27, 2015, 20:11:44
I used ot run a K&N filter to atmosphere. The single cylinder oil consumption with that is alarmingly high. It has to cycle in and out of the crankcase, where a twin just replaces it's own displacement on opposing strokes within the crankcase.

So, I decided to change it to a piece of aluminium I made on the lathe, JB welded into the intake boot after a careful drilling. Trying to create a constant vacuum from peristatic/venturi effect.

The rushing air past the carb creates a vacuum. The vacuum in a thumper crankcase should minimise the oil loss from a pressurised crankcase pushing past the rings and seals.

I've been slowly drilling the hole larger to see when it works best without sucking anything liquid as opposed to oil fog.

Oil levels in these motors needs to be really monitored well since the camshaft needs to get all the oil it needs.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 27, 2015, 20:30:50
Cosworth - What you describe is very similar to the OEM setup where the crankcase hose connects directly to the air filter box. I would have thought you would be using a good-quality oil catch can (https://torquepost.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/oil-catch-cans-what-you-should-know-how-the-work/ (https://torquepost.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/oil-catch-cans-what-you-should-know-how-the-work/)) to ensure NO oil returns into the intake tract.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on Jul 27, 2015, 21:45:40
 I use one of these bolt on oil coolers for my XS650... I have a modification done to be able to use a paper Honda oil filter assembly that makes the oil pass through the finned bolt on cooler.. works like a dream
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 28, 2015, 00:25:43
I've tried catch cans and other rigs. I'm full circle and I would rather have the oil slightly contaminating the air fuel mixture, like stock, rather than have my piston forcing air out and getting oil consumption that rivals a two stroke.

After tearing down a few sr250 motors now, I'm far more interested in oil supply than .2 of a horsepower more from the motor. I'll just take a really big dump before I ride instead. ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 28, 2015, 04:41:49
I don't think a cover will do anything - just not enough oil in contact and too small a surface area. The idea of an external cooler might have some merit. But looks are deceiving - see the discussion of an external adapter for the TW200/XT225 vs the XT250 (the newer ones): http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/973440-xt225-and-tw200-oil-cooler/ (http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/973440-xt225-and-tw200-oil-cooler/).

And another oil cooler discussion that seems to favor using an abundance of synthetic MC oil (and a richer tune) rather than adding-on additional plumbing due to cold oil flow and leak issues: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/adding-an-oil-cooler-to-xt250.956677/ (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/adding-an-oil-cooler-to-xt250.956677/).

I know my '94 XT600E has a dry sump (oil in frame) so it would be easy to add the plumbing (but I've not seen any owners who have - the frame surface does a pretty good job) and the Yamaha multi-cylinder street bikes have a front-mounted filter cover that protrudes the entire length of the filter. But even in those cases a filter cover adapter is used to plumb-in an external cooler rather than using filter cover fins or something else.


Thanks for the links.  I think you're right.  Which means that these finned oil filter covers are just for looks.  Makes me wonder about the whole Hugh's Handbuilt one too.  But this guy (http://xs650forum.proboards.com/thread/3008/finned-valve-cover-temps) actually did some testing and it seems he got cooler temperatures with the finned valve and timing covers than he did with the spoiled filter cover.  Makes sense too - dissipate heat at the head, where the oil would be the hottest and don't mess with any of the plumping - so not to much up any flow or cause starvation anywhere.  I also know that the SR spits oil up into the valve covers for it to then condensate, collect and then drip (via a 'v' in the casting) onto the valve tappets.  Maybe there is more merit in that direction?  Like that guy says - finned valve covers came stock with Nortons and some other old British bikes...

From the guy that made the parts:  'I’m still not sure how well the finned oil filter cover will dissipate heat. I have to run it a while to see.

The end result using my laser temp meter, with the same ambient temperature of 87 degrees before and after the covers were added. Traveling around town as well as a three mile stretch at 55 mph the finned covers dropped the head temperature from 230 to 197 degrees taken at the front two valve covers. The finned oil filter seemed to have less of an effect on this trip. The crank case below the cylinders was 175 degrees before and with the finned oil filter cover I got 167 with a surface temp of the fins being at 116 degrees. These are just my initial findings and I think I could get a better assessment on a longer trip, but at this point I feel safe in saying I gained something for my effort. I think the finned oil filter cover may have more benefit with longer sustained freeway speeds. With the limited surface area inside the cover I will need the differential between the fins and the oil temp, so I’ll check the temps again on the next long trip.'


Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 28, 2015, 04:45:24
I've tried catch cans and other rigs. I'm full circle and I would rather have the oil slightly contaminating the air fuel mixture, like stock, rather than have my piston forcing air out and getting oil consumption that rivals a two stroke.

After tearing down a few sr250 motors now, I'm far more interested in oil supply than .2 of a horsepower more from the motor. I'll just take a really big dump before I ride instead. ;)

Thanks for that.  Did you add any kind of one-way/check valve?  Or is it really just air/worst case oil 'mist' that ends up coming out of the breather?  I think your set up looks better too.

Good points about the performance/oil supply.  I think upgrades to 'wake up' the motor are well worth it - simply because it is far from its potential.  But trying to get bigger hp gains are not worth it.  I have tried once in the past (may still do again), I will share that project one day haha
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 28, 2015, 08:41:49
I also decided to work on a black hex head bolt kit for the engine.  I know there is a stainless one available out there but I just don't like what stainless and aluminium do together (or the shininess actually) and I really like the look of the black bolt heads on some clean engine cases :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jul 28, 2015, 11:56:48
Thanks for that.  Did you add any kind of one-way/check valve?  Or is it really just air/worst case oil 'mist' that ends up coming out of the breather?  I think your set up looks better too.

Good points about the performance/oil supply.  I think upgrades to 'wake up' the motor are well worth it - simply because it is far from its potential.  But trying to get bigger hp gains are not worth it.  I have tried once in the past (may still do again), I will share that project one day haha

I looked into a check valve from an exhaust system from the 70's. It was very robust. Mercedes makes one that can oscillate quickly as well. The idea is to have negative pressure in the crankcase, not positive pressure. Thumpers are unique in this regard. As the piston goes up and down it creates positive/negative pressure in the crank. The oil mist has to go somewhere. Since going back to the tube from the vent alone, the bike doesn't weep from the case anymore. The oil consumption is down. But not down enough. I'd like to get three tanks without adding oil or having to check it.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 28, 2015, 12:30:59
But this guy (http://xs650forum.proboards.com/thread/3008/finned-valve-cover-temps) actually did some testing and it seems he got cooler temperatures with the finned valve and timing covers than he did with the spoiled filter cover. ~~Maybe there is more merit in that direction?  Like that guy says - finned valve covers came stock with Nortons and some other old British bikes...
8) It might also be interesting to see if the valve adjustment covers used on the SR250 were used on other Yamaha models (or would fit even if they were not the same part number).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 31, 2015, 06:16:38
8) It might also be interesting to see if the valve adjustment covers used on the SR250 were used on other Yamaha models (or would fit even if they were not the same part number).

Good idea Zap.  I actually did that and it was really surprising - check this out, first a list of bikes with the same oil filter cover part number (not so many), then a list of bikes with the same valve cover part number - insane!  I cant seem to find an alternative aftermarket design either so I think I'm gonna give it a crack.  Will just try and make the fins match the head and make it as good looking and as thermally effective as possible.  So I took some photos of the head for reference when I start designing the parts in CAD.

(btw, the exhaust cover on this head is from a tt250 - hence the fittings for a decomp lever) but I will be designing a standard SR250 one instead.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 31, 2015, 06:34:33
For once I have decided I should think a bit about this idea before I dive into design and prototypes.  So for me this means setting up for some serious testing.  If I am going to design, make and sell parts, I want them to be tested and proven to actually work/function/serve a purpose.  So many of the finned cover products for sale online right now claim to reduce oil temperature because of better heat dissipation.  This must be bullshit because I have never seen any tests or actual numbers.

The plan is to install 3 temperature sensors, plus an oil pressure sensor.  One temp sensor will be in the typical place being the head - spark plug fitting, one will be in the sump (ie. before the oil has passed through the oil filter) then one just after the oil filter - after the oil has passed through the filter and filter cover.  This way I will be able to get an oil temperature before and after its journey through the oil filter and cover, plus have a test constant - being the head temperature.  I will install 1/8''-27 NPT fittings for the sensors and be able to do before and after comparisons.  I will test the stock cover, a couple of different aftermarket covers bought online, plus my design.  I think this approach will yield much more accurate/reliable results than using a laser pointer heat/temp gun.

With the oil pressure, I will do a test with the stock filter cover, then a test with my design and see if there is any difference.  If there are any pressure losses, I will call it a fail and abandon the project.

Today I installed the first one - in the sump plug.  I made sure it doesn't block/foul the oil pick up in anyway.  But the sensor head will be fully emerged in the oil so it should give a pretty accurate result.

I learned something new today too, something that to many of you will be a 'duh, you idiot' kinda thing...  I found out that NPT threads/fittings have a taper!  Haha.  When I was tapping the thread in the sump plug, I was wondering why the deeper I went, I was getting more resistance on the tap.  Now I know ;)  Lucky I didn't go too deep!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 01, 2015, 03:19:45
Time to post something a little more visually appealing...  Here is a mate of mines bike.  He built this in 2013 in Melbourne (was his first build) and he did a rad job.  I love the style of it.

With his permission, I got hold of his studio shots (hes a photographer as well) and Photoshopped in the seat I have designed.  I also worked in the results of installing the tank lowering/leveling kit.  This is no exaggeration either, the results are exactly how the kit would look.  If anything, I think the kit has had the most drastic effect.  It disturbs me so much that so many SR builds get ruined (imho) by this leaned back angle of the tank - the remains of the try-hard, wanna-be chopper theme.  Had they just installed this kit (or fabbed up something themselves of course), the tank would then line up with the rear frame rails and the whole bike would be much more harmonious  8)

Another big thanks to Henry as well for letting me do this.  Cheers bud.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 01, 2015, 03:33:41
Today I put together the next exhaust prototype, with changes influenced by your inputs!  The exhaust is now much tighter in to the frame and engine at the front (maybe too much? Is it nicer with a small gap there to distinguish between frame and exhaust?  Visually?) and also much tighter to the underside of the engine. 

I am in two minds about where to end the exhaust/how long to make it.  One idea is to make it extend right past the brake pedal and foot peg so the clamps and everything clear that.  The other option is to make it shorter so that the clamps and everything clear the foot brake and foot peg in front instead.  They both look pretty cool.  And from what I have tested, there is no problem with interference (with the short version) when attaching a silencer - I have fitted this old school style exhaust you see in the picture as an example - in the photo its hanging down a bit because i didn't attach it properly, its just sitting there.  But a 17'' and 26'' reverse megaphone muffler, plus a hot dog silencer will fit... 

Should I just make it longer and customers can cut to their desired length themselves?  Then instead of welding the adapter to the end, just include it as a loose accessory to place on after it has been cut?

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 01, 2015, 05:30:34
I am in two minds about where to end the exhaust/how long to make it.

While there is a fad for extremely short pipes, a longer pipe works better overall.

Sonreir's "Doing it right" thread gives the nitty-gritty on pipe design:

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39814.60 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39814.60)

Reply #67 is the key!

People will follow fashion with short pipes and suffer mid-range power loss with (theoretical) stratospheric top-end revs, but some will prefer function over fad and go longer.  Manufacturers usually have a reason behind the lengths they design for the bike.

Crazy

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 01, 2015, 18:42:55
I agree with Crazy - plus it works much better with an upswept exhaust.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Knuckles on Aug 02, 2015, 00:50:33
Where do I sign up for the "tank drop" kit??? Yes please......
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 02, 2015, 05:24:20
While there is a fad for extremely short pipes, a longer pipe works better overall.

People will follow fashion with short pipes and suffer mid-range power loss with (theoretical) stratospheric top-end revs, but some will prefer function over fad and go longer.  Manufacturers usually have a reason behind the lengths they design for the bike.

Crazy

Thanks crazy, yeah that's the thing I guess If I'm going to try and sell these - do I follow a trend or the function?  My original exhaust calculations for the SR engine, based on bore, stroke, cam specs, carb specs and a peak performance at 7000rpm (rather than the 9000rpm redline) actually gave a really nice midrange - starting to give good power from 3000 to 7000rpm.  The calculations spat out an internal pipe diameter of 32mm (meaning using 35mm/ 1-3/8'' tube) and a total length of 28''.  I had these estimations backed up by Pam from Powroll - his knowledge and suggestion was based on his experience with modifying the xt and tt250 (roughly the same engine) back in the late 80's for performance.  He even actually suggested a total pipe length of 31''!

I think it would be best to stick with the original design, then people can choose to cut there pipe down themselves if they like :)
 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 02, 2015, 05:33:15
Where do I sign up for the "tank drop" kit??? Yes please......

Cool!  I will launching a webshop very shortly where you can place an order :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 02, 2015, 18:10:10

I rent a big space - its actually a converted laundry basement.  Yeah, I had a really hard time finding a space too - especially in Malmö.  Thats why I ended up in Arlöv haha. Nice you have a place now.  Is your bike functional?  It would be cool to meet up for a ride sometime :)

Hahaha, well as long as it's warm and has power and water it's awesome. A toilet isn't bad to have either My bike hasn't been on the road since 2008. Long story short, it broke down and I got pissed at it. I'm aiming at having it done by next summer before I move back home to Lund. Would be awesome to do some riding with another "small CC" bike!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 03, 2015, 05:10:04
Would be awesome to do some riding with another "small CC" bike!

Definitely man!  Get in touch when you get down here.  Haha 'small CC'.  Its all relative I guess.  When my Dad was riding bikes, a 250 was a medium to big size bike, in many countries it still is.  Something with the Swedes - they just love BIG bikes!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - High Quality, Detailed Colour Wire Diagram
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 03, 2015, 19:02:29
I have been starting to modify some of the wiring harness to re-locate some things (horn, ignition, etc) plus installing the new speedo and a moto-Gadget M-Flash digital blinker relay (love these things!).  In doing this, I decided I didn't like any of the wire diagrams I found available on the net and I didn't like looking at the one in the manual without colours.  So I made my own.  I actually started making this when I built my first SR  a few years ago but ran out of time cos its so damn boring and time consuming.  But today I finished it and it is all vectors so I can export it to whatever quality I like.  Attached is a .jpeg and .pdf.

Free for all to download and use!   8) ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 03, 2015, 21:25:19

Definitely man!  Get in touch when you get down here.  Haha 'small CC'.  Its all relative I guess.  When my Dad was riding bikes, a 250 was a medium to big size bike, in many countries it still is.  Something with the Swedes - they just love BIG bikes!

Yeah, we swedes seem to have a fondness for big bikes. I've always loved smaller bikes. Maybe because I was brought up on an Enfield India 500 with 22 HP. I lived in Australia a couple of years back and worked at a wrecking yard/Yamaha dealer and I really got fond of the small L-plate bikes like the zxr250, cbr250 and the 400cc equivalents. We got shitty bikes here in Sweden due to old insurance rules but we do have really good rules regarding customization of bikes.

Do you know the measurements of the oil filter cover yet? Thought maybe Yamaha used the same for the sr4/500. In that case I have an idea to develop!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 04, 2015, 16:39:23
Yeah, we swedes seem to have a fondness for big bikes. I've always loved smaller bikes. Maybe because I was brought up on an Enfield India 500 with 22 HP. I lived in Australia a couple of years back and worked at a wrecking yard/Yamaha dealer and I really got fond of the small L-plate bikes like the zxr250, cbr250 and the 400cc equivalents. We got shitty bikes here in Sweden due to old insurance rules but we do have really good rules regarding customization of bikes.

Do you know the measurements of the oil filter cover yet? Thought maybe Yamaha used the same for the sr4/500. In that case I have an idea to develop!

Sounds like a cool experience you had in Australia.  Yeah, I wondered why there are none (or very few) of the typical 1970s classic Japanese bikes here - like where are all the RD350s and RD400s (before the YPVS models) and where are all the CB350 twins and XS650 twins?  They only come up once in a blue moon it seems.

I have actually prototyped an oil cover already and it will fit SR400s, SR500s, XT500s, TT500s and the SRX600.  I will get an aluminium prototype machined up and do some proper testing before I do anything further with that project :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 04, 2015, 16:42:16
Something else I have put together that helps a lot when working on this bike and putting stuff back together.  And even ordering replacement parts.  Its a .pdf document with all the the exploded parts pictures and part numbers from www.boats.net  Pretty good site to order a lot of original parts from.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Aug 04, 2015, 18:03:04
Also if you look on the head, there is a Philips/JIS bolt that masks where the oil feed for the cam is. Oil under pressure rides up a cylinder head bolt hole the diverts near this drilled feed to the cam. The cam is then filled with oil and bleeds out to the intake and exhaust tappets. One more than the other with the flawed stock cam.

You can put a pressure sender or temp sensor where this bolt is if you are savvy. Safely tucked away from the grime and exposure under the sump.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 05, 2015, 11:15:03
Thanks for the tip.  I was aware of that check bolt but I dont really want to run the risk of messing anything up with the head.  I have a spare clutch side engine cover anyways so I have decided to drill and tap into the oil passage there.  Then I also get a more direct reading after the oil has passed through the filter - like, right after it.

I got some mail today - an NPT fitting extension so I can run the standard sensors, plus a cool looking K&N filter.  I am pretty over the whole 'pod' filter look and wanted a decent filter so decided it was worth it to fork out for this one rather than the no-brand/emgo junk (which I have used in the past myself btw!).  So I got this more round style look and avoided any filter with chrome on it - for me, its not the place to try and be 'blingy'.  So I chose the one with a rubber end instead :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 05, 2015, 11:17:56
I have also really enjoyed reading these two books the past few weeks.  I have gained a lot of inspiration from both of them.  I felt a bit obliged to read the Husqvarna one because of living in Sweden and its a great story.  The strange thing is, not that many Swedes even know Husqvarna made world famous motorcycles!  For most of them Husqvarna means a small town and washing machines/appliances!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 09, 2015, 09:35:03
Been a bit quiet the past few days because I have been designing some concept valve covers and oil filter cover.  If I was running this build as a project manager this would be getting waaaay off track.  This was not at all on the cards in the beginning but I now see it as a fun product opportunity.  I am not going to pretend I am an engineer in thermal dynamics or anything, but I have hopes that these might actually have a cooling effect.  I have played with various fin heights, layouts, configurations etc.  The latest oil filter cover concept holds an extra 100cc/mL of oil and has an increase of surface area of 300% over stock, so I hope it does something.  Like I have said, everything will be tested properly.  I just need to finalise a design and get some metal prototypes made :)

I have had some interesting design challenges when trying to integrate these covers into the design of the engine.  I want them to look somewhat harmonious with the design - rather than some hack bolt on part.  Trying to line up fins and match lines is not easy - see the red line diagram for example - do you line up the fins with the ones already on the crankcase cover?  Or do you line them up with the cylinder fins?  In the end I decided either way would be a compromise and that radial fins would not only avoid this visual clash, they actually offer greater surface area/cooling ability and might be easier to CNC.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 09, 2015, 09:47:59
And here come some valve cover shots.  First I had to get the dimensions exactly right - my digital vernier skills are only as good as my one squinted eye can handle.  So I printed some basic patterns to them be able to make small adjustments in the 3D file to make them a perfect match.  Then it was trying all sorts of fin angles and arrangements  8)  Still haven't decided, but I am starting to think along the lines of the oil filter cover - don't try to match the existing lines, but rather make them vertical and in this way they don't clash but instead create their own visual element.  This way you also end up with a Ducati-front-cyclinder-head-ish look haha  One thing i did find/decide, was that fins over 10mm long just look goofy!

One thing that has been bothering me is the design of the exhaust valve cover.  Why is it so different to the intake valve cover in terms of form?  Ignoring the hole pattern of coarse.  I cannot see any useful purpose for it to stick out like it does...  My one and only theory is that the engineers at Yamaha tried to reduce 3D modeling time and tooling costs by making an insert exchange tool - where for the non-compression release valve covers, that insert is blanked off and you get a smooth surface, yet the same shape.  Then when they wanted to run the tool to make the compression release version (for the XT and TT kick start versions), they put that insert in the tool and made that version.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 09, 2015, 10:00:55
Some shots of one concept direction with both covers on.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: FerousBastard on Aug 09, 2015, 15:22:18
Wow you have been busy! That printer is definitely getting put to good use. Personally I'd go with the oil filter cover design to the far right but just as a cover without the height of the cooling fins, that thing looks rad! Just a thought; Any cooling ability of the added surface area of the other designs would be negligible to the effort put into machining the part. Adding ports for an external oil cooler, now that's a different story. 
For the valve covers I'd do something similar to the rad looking filter cover. The engine casings themselves have a lot of fins going on on their own, flowing all over the place as you've pointed out.

You said you are in Malmö right? I'm in Kolding, Danmark and am working on redesigning a LS650 savage; http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66958 still working out the details though, but could be cool to exchange ideas sometime.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 09, 2015, 23:21:16
No idea of functionality (for that you would need to prototype and compare cylinder head temps) but I like the look of the horizontal valve covers! If the TT/XT exhaust valve covers fit the SR it might be a better manufacturing/sales plan to just make 1 exhaust cover and have a silicone plug for the SR use. As far as long fins vs short - if they were painted silver to match the engine, there would probably not be any visual difference between them, but (again) testing would tell if one was more effective than the other.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 10, 2015, 03:54:13
Wow you have been busy! That printer is definitely getting put to good use. Personally I'd go with the oil filter cover design to the far right but just as a cover without the height of the cooling fins, that thing looks rad! Just a thought; Any cooling ability of the added surface area of the other designs would be negligible to the effort put into machining the part. Adding ports for an external oil cooler, now that's a different story. 
For the valve covers I'd do something similar to the rad looking filter cover. The engine casings themselves have a lot of fins going on on their own, flowing all over the place as you've pointed out.

You said you are in Malmö right? I'm in Kolding, Danmark and am working on redesigning a LS650 savage; http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66958 still working out the details though, but could be cool to exchange ideas sometime.

Thanks man.  Yeah, that printer is the best investment I ever made.  After working as an industrial/product design engineer for 7 years i know that seeing physical prototypes is the best way to understand your design and the best way to make design/form decisions.  I am definitely in agreement with you about the engine covers.  I'll show you the valve covers I printed last night that I think I will go with - at least get them made in aluminium and test them anyway.

Yeah I'm in Malmö.  Kolding ay, just checked it on the map.  You studying there or commuting somewhere else?  I actually saw your LS650 thread and really like what you're doing.  I followed the Ryca dudes right from the beginning - way back when they were first written about in The Kneeslider in 2010 http://thekneeslider.com/ryca-cs-1-suzuki-s40-cafe-conversion/  But I feel your direction will offer something new.  That first shot on your thread is so awesome!  Do you know much about that particular bike?

Would be great to bounce some ideas man!  I could also print some small stuff for you if/when you come to that.  Congrats on the bike purchase btw, now your project can really get started!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 10, 2015, 05:31:13
No idea of functionality (for that you would need to prototype and compare cylinder head temps) but I like the look of the horizontal valve covers! If the TT/XT exhaust valve covers fit the SR it might be a better manufacturing/sales plan to just make 1 exhaust cover and have a silicone plug for the SR use. As far as long fins vs short - if they were painted silver to match the engine, there would probably not be any visual difference between them, but (again) testing would tell if one was more effective than the other.

Thats an interesting idea with the exhaust valve cover!  Do you have any idea why the SR one has the bulge in it?  It doesnt look like a clearance issue for the tappet or rocker...

So you think the longer fins would be better?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 10, 2015, 05:49:53
Heres the vertical fins concept together on the head.  I really do like the look of this but the horizontal fins, when angles correctly, look pretty nifty too.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 10, 2015, 05:55:31
Maybe I'm clutching at straws here but is anyone else seeing some cool resemblances of the duc aircooled heads?  I know an SR is a far cry from a duc, but it is the single cam with rockers (imagine an SR with desmo valves haha) and valve covers arrangement that makes the similarity I think.  The last shot of an older bevel drive duc has some pretty cool finned covers  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: FerousBastard on Aug 10, 2015, 06:55:30
Thanks man.  Yeah, that printer is the best investment I ever made.  After working as an industrial/product design engineer for 7 years i know that seeing physical prototypes is the best way to understand your design and the best way to make design/form decisions.  I am definitely in agreement with you about the engine covers.  I'll show you the valve covers I printed last night that I think I will go with - at least get them made in aluminium and test them anyway.

Yeah I'm in Malmö.  Kolding ay, just checked it on the map.  You studying there or commuting somewhere else?  I actually saw your LS650 thread and really like what you're doing.  I followed the Ryca dudes right from the beginning - way back when they were first written about in The Kneeslider in 2010 http://thekneeslider.com/ryca-cs-1-suzuki-s40-cafe-conversion/  But I feel your direction will offer something new.  That first shot on your thread is so awesome!  Do you know much about that particular bike?

Thanks man! It's awesome you think so, it's really cool to see people appreciate your designs. Am currently studying Industrial Design on Kolding School of Design. Kolding is pretty much the only place to study serious design in Denmark, other than that it's more or less a bleak city with horrible flat riding country all around.. 
Like I wrote over in my thread; The LS650 was my first bike and followed the scene since, especially the Ryca guys (via The Kneeslider no less!), what they did and the potential they unleashed from that humble single cylinder was really inspirational. Magic happens when an unrestricted single cylinder thumper is unleashed.

Would be great to bounce some ideas man!  I could also print some small stuff for you if/when you come to that.  Congrats on the bike purchase btw, now your project can really get started!

Thanks man that's awesome! Plan on reusing/repurposing as many stock parts as possible, but knowing someone with a 3D printer will definitely let the creative juices flow more freely  8)

Maybe I'm clutching at straws here but is anyone else seeing some cool resemblances of the duc aircooled heads?
Not nessecarily clutching at straws, there is a slight resemblance; the angled dual valve covers, the overall proportions of the head, the SR's fins extend a little more forward though. It could be cool with a '250' cover (perhaps round with recessed writing like the clutch cover?) on both sides of the head, spark plug and opposite like the later Duc pic with the '750'  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 10, 2015, 11:20:50
So you think the longer fins would be better?
No idea. It may turn out that neither short nor long fins actually reduce cylinder head temps at all - that is where the prototyping comes in. I was just thinking that either one might look fine if painted silver (instead of the "printed" black plastic) - less noticeable against the engine. But I still like the look of the horizontal fins better (again, maybe vertical fins work better; maybe neither horizontal nor vertical do anything).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 10, 2015, 13:57:12
If you make one with connections for an oil cooler I'm down for one! If they fit the SR500 that is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 10, 2015, 16:33:45
Something I have been working on when the printer has been running...  Just went live with my homepage/webshop, facebook page and instagram account.  Check it out if you like!  The insta account has been running a few days but sort of just made everything proper public today.

http://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/
https://www.facebook.com/jadusparts
https://instagram.com/jadusmotorcycleparts/

Everywhere I write something I write 'we' 'us' 'our' etc for the Jadus 'team'.  Haha, feels weird, its just me, one man band.  Who knows, maybe I'll get someone else to help in the future too but not for a long time yet I imagine.  But you know, it always sounds better when it seems like there is a team behind the brand for some reason.

Anyway, this build/these parts are being developed in real time so keep the feedback coming.  Also if you have any feedback on the webpage that's also really appreciated.  I think a team designed part will always be better than one individual.  Also, I would love to help anyone who has any questions about any of the stuff I have done/modifications made etc.

Cheers
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DesmoBro on Aug 10, 2015, 18:53:18
Maybe I'm clutching at straws here but is anyone else seeing some cool resemblances of the duc aircooled heads?  I know an SR is a far cry from a duc, but it is the single cam with rockers (imagine an SR with desmo valves haha) and valve covers arrangement that makes the similarity I think.  The last shot of an older bevel drive duc has some pretty cool finned covers  8)




Make it happin capn!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 10, 2015, 19:13:03
Looks really nice! Where are you working "for real"? Need to start thinking about doing my bachelors final pro hem somewhere...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 10, 2015, 23:51:15
Something I have been working on when the printer has been running...  Just went live with my homepage/webshop, facebook page and instagram account.  Check it out if you like!  The insta account has been running a few days but sort of just made everything proper public today.

http://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/
https://www.facebook.com/jadusparts
https://instagram.com/jadusmotorcycleparts/

Everywhere I write something I write 'we' 'us' 'our' etc for the Jadus 'team'.  Haha, feels weird, its just me, one man band.  Who knows, maybe I'll get someone else to help in the future too but not for a long time yet I imagine.  But you know, it always sounds better when it seems like there is a team behind the brand for some reason.

Anyway, this build/these parts are being developed in real time so keep the feedback coming.  Also if you have any feedback on the webpage that's also really appreciated.  I think a team designed part will always be better than one individual.  Also, I would love to help anyone who has any questions about any of the stuff I have done/modifications made etc.

Cheers
It would be real cool to offer a complete kit for the front fork brace, gaiter adapters and the gaiters you used (and maybe the front fender?). Also - any plans to offer the bolt-on tail loop? On the ordering end of your site: Shipping cost calculator? Euro to whatever currency calculator? Paypal account setup?
Great beginning!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 11, 2015, 07:23:41
It would be real cool to offer a complete kit for the front fork brace, gaiter adapters and the gaiters you used (and maybe the front fender?). Also - any plans to offer the bolt-on tail loop? On the ordering end of your site: Shipping cost calculator? Euro to whatever currency calculator? Paypal account setup?
Great beginning!

Thanks Zap, that's really good feedback.  I have been in contact with two workshops that could make the fenders for me to my specifications - just waiting for prices.  Same goes for the rear frame loop.  I hope to add them to the shop soon.

With regards to the shipping and costs, that is a really good point.  I will look into that asap.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 12, 2015, 12:22:07
Actually got outside today!  Twas a good day for riding  ;D   8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 12, 2015, 13:11:19
Looks really nice! What bike is that to begin with? Transalp?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 12, 2015, 13:39:42
Looks really nice! What bike is that to begin with? Transalp?

Thanks!  Yeah good spotting.  Its the '96 model with throttle position sensor, transistorised ignition and the bigger single disc brake.  The best year imho before it changed to the 650.  Its such a rat bike but its real fun with that 17'' wheel up the front and an exhaust header from a 750 Africa Twin :)

You can see a short clip (with sound) of it if you search the hashtag #jadusmotorcycleparts
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 12, 2015, 14:41:05
What can I say, I have a good eye for bikes once my friends in high school kind of mocked me for always knowing cars and bikes so when we were out drinking one night we heard this horrible sounding car. A friend of mine asked me if I knew what "car" made that sound. So I said in a joke full voice; " it's a rust brown old SAAB 900 with the left headlight broken and a black sun screen in the back" and continued walking down the street with my beer in hand. And I'm not shitting you when I say that about 40 seconds later the sound grows stronger and around the bend comes a rust brown SAAB 900 with the left headlight broken and a black sun screen in the back! Everybody just stood still with their mouths wide open whilst I kept on walking! Moment of my life! Guess I had seen it before and recognized the sound but it still makes me smile like crazy when I think about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Aug 12, 2015, 14:48:05
Baller.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 13, 2015, 18:34:14
After chasing up a few times, I finally got these today.  But man, worth the wait.  Really high quality and high level of craftsmanship here.  I would have loved to have made them myself, but I will have to wait a while before I can buy a tube bender, lathe, and TIG welder haha.  I got him to leave the bolt holes a standard 5mm and I will drill and tap them myself - to save him time and me the cost.  This will mean that when they are put on the bike, I wont need to use an ugly nut, rather, just a black button head allen bolt.

In the photo you can see the two steel handle bars - left and right, plus a prototype I printed out just for the guy.  He only had a 3'' bend radius tool so I modified the design slightly to fit his equipment.  Still gets the rights design intent and will look dope when mounted.  He said it was super helpful to have something other than just a drawing to make the parts with - to compare with and that.  3D printer pays for itself again!

I got talking to the guy who made them and he is one of the only dudes in Sweden legally certified to design and weld up roll cages for racing cars - which includes a lot of knowledge about metallurgy and of coarse several welding certificates.  Really nice humble guy too.  Feels good to do business with good people  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 14, 2015, 04:06:00
I just finished writing an article about some motorbike engine sounds.  I spent a lot of time trying to find the clearest, most pronounced videos that give the best impression of the exhaust notes.  If you're like me, you will spend any amount of time just listening to other peoples bike videos on youtube haha.  See if you agree with me on some of the choices...

http://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/#!Motorcycle-Music-Know-Your-Engine-Sounds/ce4r/55ca57c20cf2244af6092bc1 (http://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/#!Motorcycle-Music-Know-Your-Engine-Sounds/ce4r/55ca57c20cf2244af6092bc1)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 14, 2015, 15:12:56
Looks awesome! Who's the guy you're talking about?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 14, 2015, 18:17:23
Looks really nice! Where are you working "for real"? Need to start thinking about doing my bachelors final pro hem somewhere...

You mean my day job?  I was working as a product developer for Trust Care in Malmo.  But I quit and now I am self-employed doing some design consulting, working with this and doing some repair work on bikes - both push bikes and motorbikes.  Just trying to get by really!

You wanting to do a final project for design?  If you're interested in medical/aid products then speak to Diego at Trust Care, he might be interested in you doing a project there...  Worth a shot anyway.

Looks awesome! Who's the guy you're talking about?

His name is Bengt Wittander -  he owns/runs Competition Cars in Dalby.  Hes usually super busy and he is crazy for cycling.  Top bloke with mad skills.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 16, 2015, 05:28:37
It feels like I have been working hard on stuff but not coming very far with the bike itself - hard to see/visualise the progress.  That all changed yesterday when I got a few hours in the workshop.  Its great when a lot of planning and work on small details just comes together - like being able to see the real tangible results.

I took all the real parts I have so far, plus some prototype parts and assembled them on the bike to see if I am on track with my vision and to make some colour/finish decisions.  In Swedish there is a word 'fuska' which translates to 'cheat', but that's a bad translation.  It really means to fake it i think think - so everything on this mockup was fake pretty much, just to see how it looks.  For example, all the black parts are just spray bombed with a rattle can one coat and there are no cables or electrical harness or anything - just a rolling chassis.  Was cool to see how neatly the rear frame loop fitted though, and the ignition bracket!

I was pleasantly surprised that its pretty close to how I want it to look.  I will play a bit more with the balance between chrome, aluminium and matte black.  Right now its too black for me, I think I will bead blast the forks to visually lighten the front end a little, plus I am thinking of using an aluminum or chrome tail light to tie the whole package together.  When I was looking for inspiration I was checking out old Vincents and old Matchless motorcycles.  They looked so classy and elegant in just silver, chrome and black  8)

There is still a shit load of work to do - strip, blast and paint everything, sort out the electrics, service and detail the engine, tune the engine, sort the controls - cables etc.  Im not happy with the side covers yet either so I will do a bit more there.  But I'm on the right track it feels  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: FerousBastard on Aug 16, 2015, 06:32:33
Wow looks really rad man! For a 'fuska' I'm kinda envious  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 16, 2015, 14:28:58
I think the biggest difference between your current bike look and the classics you posted are - wheels, fenders, and shiny black vs matte. Your fenders/wheels are black; on the classics they are chrome; all the black is shiny on the classics. But I am not suggesting chrome on yours. Maybe a chrome tail light, a chrome "tuning fork" emblem on the side covers, or silver/aluminum paint on the fenders might help add some visual interest (might make them look like alloy). I think I'd leave the wheels/forks/headlight mounts/handlebars as is. Maybe contemplate gloss black for the side panels/tank/headlight shell?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 17, 2015, 06:31:23
I think the biggest difference between your current bike look and the classics you posted are - wheels, fenders, and shiny black vs matte. Your fenders/wheels are black; on the classics they are chrome; all the black is shiny on the classics. But I am not suggesting chrome on yours. Maybe a chrome tail light, a chrome "tuning fork" emblem on the side covers, or silver/aluminum paint on the fenders might help add some visual interest (might make them look like alloy). I think I'd leave the wheels/forks/headlight mounts/handlebars as is. Maybe contemplate gloss black for the side panels/tank/headlight shell?

Good points zap.  I actually went out and bought some silver and chrome paint today just for mock up/testing purposes.  Will see how it works out.  You're right, it would be silly to change the wheels at this point!  I was actually going for a bit of the Harley 48/bobber look there - where they have fat tyres and black rims to make the whole look more beefy and dramatic.  I think that is working well.  I will try the forks in silver/aluminium again to see if that helps break thinks up. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 17, 2015, 12:45:18
Good points zap.  I actually went out and bought some silver and chrome paint today just for mock up/testing purposes.  Will see how it works out.  You're right, it would be silly to change the wheels at this point!  I was actually going for a bit of the Harley 48/bobber look there - where they have fat tyres and black rims to make the whole look more beefy and dramatic.  I think that is working well.  I will try the forks in silver/aluminium again to see if that helps break thinks up.
Photoshop first?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 17, 2015, 17:45:11
Photoshopped one option real quick anyway.  I think it will achieve the lightness I am looking for.  I also bought a bates style tail light with black body and chrome rim/trim.  For me, this will really nicely tie the rear of the bike to the front - with the big black head light and chrome ring  ;)

Don't laugh at the 5min photohack job  ;D

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 17, 2015, 17:53:14
I also checked out what the finned engine covers might look like in context.  Pretty pathetic 'aluminium colour' spray paint of you ask me.  Oh well, conveys the intention anyway.  I think they'll be cool even if they dont work.  But it will be fun to do some testing  ;D  I really like the cam chain cover in black though.  I'll run with that.  Then I was checking out where I might mount the indicators too.  I am sold on the rear, but not yet on the front.

I really like these daytona blinkers.  I have used them on 3 builds so far.  I love the simple geometric but elegant design - I am not a fan of the conical or 'bullet' shape ones - too 'chopperish' for my tastes.  I also think that with the amber lens, they almost look like they could be period correct - like in the 80s when they didn't have amber LEDs and they had to use amber lenses to get that colour light.

One more thing...  I tried silver/'aluminium' guards as well.  Not sold yet but I'll def ponder over it for a wee while longer.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 17, 2015, 19:53:41
I'm liking the silver "alloy" fenders! I think what it needs to finish it is a chrome/black/touch-of-red decal on the side cover that is like your avatar on DTT and on your web site  ::) (of course the other side needs a mirror image  ;D.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 18, 2015, 18:42:27
I like the handlebars more and more each day! However I think the exhaust would look even better if it followed the engines lines in the front. Also think your color issues with the bike is because you have a full "silver" engine. I painted mine and it looks way better with some contrasts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 19, 2015, 18:12:14
I will definitely add something nice/cool on the side covers.  Haven't decided if it will be in silver or chrome.  I am starting to like the idea of silver/aluminium guards more and more.

As for the engine, I really want it to have a classic look.  I don't really like painted engines personally (each to his own).  Not only for the looks, but for the fact that it hinders the engines ability to leak/dissipate the heat.  Believe me, unless its the right paint, you're not helping your engine cool - Harley did a shit ton of research on this I read somewhere.

I do want to paint the barrel and the cam chain cover though and maybe a few other details.  The idea is that the jug/barrel 'looks' like its cast iron with an aluminium head - like in the old days.  Maybe a little try hard I know, but I like the look - as in the AJS and Norton attached.

I tried a 4th exhaust prototype today.  One more change and I am done.  I will print a final and then take that with me when I go visit my supplier - so he can copy the bends exactly.  Then I will order 100 or something.  Hope they sell!  Gotta come into the Spanish market somehow - there's a shit ton of SR250s there but I don't speak a word of Spanish!  Maybe its time to learn  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 20, 2015, 17:24:57
Got some goodies in the mail today! 

_ Spark plug head temp gauge
_ Oil pressure gauge
_ Oil temp gauge x2

Gotta finish the damn bike before any of this happens!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 23, 2015, 17:24:53
Been away for the weekend so not much time in the workshop/on the bike.  But these two sweet magazines arrived on Friday - I ordered them from ebay.  I have a couple more coming next week.  I ordered all the ones I could find with tests/reviews of the SR250 back in the day when it first came out.  They are really fun to read - not only has the technology and the motorcycle industry/community in general come a long way, journalism and writing in itself has also developed a lot too  :D

I scanned in the whole articles and added them to my webpage at a pretty decent resolution - so if you are interested to see what the motorcycle journos were saying about the SR250 back then, I really recommend you have a read  ;D

http://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/#!other/cqh1
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 23, 2015, 21:37:39
Thanks for all the scanned info!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 25, 2015, 03:33:08
Another prototype believe it or not.  Printed it yesterday and fitted it today to test.  It's perfect, but then after 5 prototypes you would damn well hope so!  I'll be ordering these real soon :)  Then I will probably design two more - a high 'scrambler' pipe and a pipe more like the BSA Goldstar - with a few more curves that match the clutch cover and sweep upwards at the end  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: FerousBastard on Aug 25, 2015, 15:28:59
You can never have too many prototypes. Looks ace to me 8)
Think a BSA like pie would look really cool, havn't thought about it before but now you bring it up I think Suzuki stole a few pipe-ideas the the BSA for their LS650  :o
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 26, 2015, 12:23:47
Got some cool stuff in the mail today - my posh tail light, some template stickers and some 'fabric' electrical tape.  I don't know how well the tape hold up to abrasion but it sure looks cool.  I will still wrap the wiring with high quality normal electrical tape first I think.  I also might still yet look into some nice fabric/nylon cable sleeves that I have seen look nice (and might have more abrasion resistance).

The quality and look of the tail light is next level.  I don't know if I like it on the silver/aluminium guards though... might go back to black yet haha.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 26, 2015, 12:41:27
Here is the idea behind the template stickers...  After years of designing products and making assembly/installation instructions, I learned that the best/easiest/coolest (and most expensive, doh!) way to make sure things are done right and as exact as possible, is to make transparent template stickers.  It makes the whole exercise pretty painless.  Now you guys on this forum and my future customers are probably the most capable people out there and definitely on the upper spectrum of being able to understand and read instructions and install stuff properly - which is a nice change for me to be able to design stuff for smart people rather than 'monkeys' as one of my old boss's would call most installation guys ;) haha

Anyway, the template fits and works perfectly.  Following on from this I have taken some pictures of the easiest way to install the kit.  The super glue for the CDI spacers is nothing permanent or load bearing, it is merely to make the installation easier.  Once in place, the screws hold it all together.  The spacers are just used to clear the bolt heads of the new front tank mounts.

I am working on a proper set of instructions with photos and everything as well.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 26, 2015, 12:52:20
I managed to print the other half of the updated (3rd prototype) side cover and glue it together for a test fit.  While I was at it I had a thorough look at the seat prototype. 

I am pretty happy with the side cover.  I will make a few minor tweaks then make a mould to make it in fiberglass.

The seat however needs a bit of work.  I took a lot of notes and will update the 3D model tonight accordingly.  This will be the most expensive tooling (for the seat base and the foam moulds) so I want it to be right.  Hopefully, the seat pan can be slightly universal and I will be able to design one or two more shapes for the foam part to sit on top of it - maybe a more cafe racer style and then a flatter, thinner version too.

The last thing I checked was some prototype headlight brackets I am working on.  Eventually I will make them from aluminium tube and sheet metal.  I adjusted the angles slightly so they fit the lines of the bike better and will also accommodate the indicators in a tidier fashion.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Shawzie on Aug 26, 2015, 14:04:01
I put my cdi in the same spot. Fits pretty good in there. Your bike is looking great. Lots of good ideas. Consider changing the headlight maybe? The stock one is too big for the bike in my opinion. It makes everything else (mainly the forks and triples) look too small. I put a dt175 light on mine and the sizing seems much better. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 26, 2015, 17:08:51
For wiring, most just use pre-split plastic loom material (maybe with black zipties). Works well as long as the wiring harness bend is not severe.

I initially did not follow your "template" thing until I saw it was both a TCI relocation and front tank mount kit. I thought you were going to use a "swinging" mount with a slug going into the frame hole (left over from removing the OEM mount), a flat re-locating plate, and a "spool" going away from the frame to hold the rubber tank mount? This design would have been great to mount both the OEM tank (in a different location) and other brand tanks with similar rubber mounts and the ability to fit the frame (since OEM tanks in good condition are fairly hard to find - at least in the USA). The tank would have been "hanging" in the front, but the tail mount would have kept it from moving.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 27, 2015, 02:47:00
Consider changing the headlight maybe? The stock one is too big for the bike in my opinion. It makes everything else (mainly the forks and triples) look too small. I put a dt175 light on mine and the sizing seems much better. Just a thought.

I do think the headlight is a little large like you say.  But the design and finish of it I like - I think it fits this build.  The other thing is its so practical to be able to fit all of the wiring in there.  The DT175 headlight is a cool idea.  I have even seen a CB100 headlight used and that looked pretty cool.

Haha I know what you mean about the triples and the forks looking small - thats why I have tried to cover them with the gaiters and headlight ears to make them look a little beefier ;)

Thing is, I am actually working on designing a new custom universal headlight, but it wont be ready for this build.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 27, 2015, 02:51:50
For wiring, most just use pre-split plastic loom material (maybe with black zipties). Works well as long as the wiring harness bend is not severe.

I initially did not follow your "template" thing until I saw it was both a TCI relocation and front tank mount kit. I thought you were going to use a "swinging" mount with a slug going into the frame hole (left over from removing the OEM mount), a flat re-locating plate, and a "spool" going away from the frame to hold the rubber tank mount? This design would have been great to mount both the OEM tank (in a different location) and other brand tanks with similar rubber mounts and the ability to fit the frame (since OEM tanks in good condition are fairly hard to find - at least in the USA). The tank would have been "hanging" in the front, but the tail mount would have kept it from moving.

Aha, so thats what they use.  I thought it would be too much hassle to practically re-do all the wire connections just to fit the sleeves.  Now it makes sense with the pre-split stuff.  Thanks for the tips.

The fist 3 prototypes I made for the tank kit were exactly how you describe/thought.  The problem I kept having (even after 3 tries) was that the tank mounting flanges (inside the tunnel) kept interfering with the brackets, no matter how thin I made them and no matter what orientation I positioned them in.  Thats why I had to go down this path with drilling a hole with a template and adding the mount that way.  I really hope these parts will still allow people to mount other tanks - just by drilling a hole in the correct location.  But i'll have to wait to see what people come up with.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 27, 2015, 12:35:40
The problem I kept having (even after 3 tries) was that the tank mounting flanges (inside the tunnel) kept interfering with the brackets, no matter how thin I made them and no matter what orientation I positioned them in.

OK - makes sense. As you say, the mount could be used with other tanks - just would need some careful pre-planning.

RE your tail light - do you think you would have enough room for more of a "classic" off-road tail light like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tail-light-Brake-light-Off-road-Enduro-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasaki-Suzuki-KDX-TS-XL-/131016091939 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tail-light-Brake-light-Off-road-Enduro-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasaki-Suzuki-KDX-TS-XL-/131016091939)? I think it would work better (on a tracker) than the smaller "bobberish" one you pictured.

Edit: RE your headlight - I recently converted my OEM headlight bucket/trim ring to accept a Virago 750 H-4 bulb/reflector as per the guidance on the Yahoo Groups page for better illumination. Have you seen the upcoming Yamaha XSR-700 headlight? Smaller diameter but longer nacelle (and presumably with a 55w/60w beam).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 29, 2015, 08:03:16
RE your tail light - do you think you would have enough room for more of a "classic" off-road tail light like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tail-light-Brake-light-Off-road-Enduro-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasaki-Suzuki-KDX-TS-XL-/131016091939 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tail-light-Brake-light-Off-road-Enduro-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasaki-Suzuki-KDX-TS-XL-/131016091939)? I think it would work better (on a tracker) than the smaller "bobberish" one you pictured.

Edit: RE your headlight - I recently converted my OEM headlight bucket/trim ring to accept a Virago 750 H-4 bulb/reflector as per the guidance on the Yahoo Groups page for better illumination. Have you seen the upcoming Yamaha XSR-700 headlight? Smaller diameter but longer nacelle (and presumably with a 55w/60w beam).

I really like that tail light set up.  I am already planning on building a more tracker styled 250 for my next build so that will be on the cards then.

That XSR-700 headlight is a really nice modern take on the vintage style headlight.  How much of an impact did the H-4 light conversion have?

Btw, what do you think of the XSR-700 in general?  Beats me why they decided to make that bike with the twin engine from the MT-07 instead of the triple from the MT-09.  Personally I think the styling is a mess - there is no flow, cohesion and it generally looks like a mashed together hodge bodge of a job.  They could have done a lot more for the design, and perhaps done something with that big slab of a radiator up front?  There are many bikes (including my home built rat bike) that have good functioning under-seat radiators.  This bike would have been a sitter for that treatment - and I am sure the Yamaha engineers are VERY capable of making the whole package work.  It falls short compared to the Ducati Scrambler if you ask me - if that is its competition?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 29, 2015, 16:50:31
Converting to a 55w/60w H-4 bulb versus the OEM 35w/50w sealed beam is noticeably brighter (plus easier to change out - even to an LED unit if desired). If I had/was able to get a complete 7" headlight for the same price I may have gone that route but I got the Virago 750 lens/reflector at a real good price and it was minimal work.

RE the XSR-700: I kind of like it. I know that it is not a "cohesive" look - more like a Mad Max look - maybe that's why I like it. It does not have the same minimalist look the Ducati Scrambler does, but the Duc has a more narrow, air-cooled engine to start with. A radiator cover (or some high-temp black paint) and the XSR will look just fine to me. It also has some real nice-looking Yamaha accessories to further the "apocalyptical" look. If the XSR-700 does well, Yamaha might come out with a XSR-900 (and an XSR-300 for its new small twin). Most probably, some private customizer will beat them to it.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 30, 2015, 04:13:49
Yeah I have seen a ton of LED H-4 bulbs on ebay and alibaba recently.  Must be a hit.  Well its good to know it was worth it.  It might be something I do after the build if I end up doing some night riding into the Autumn months.

I think you're right with the XSR-700, if you look at it as an intention to be all over the place with the design.  I think it will be one of those bikes that divides people, whereas perhaps the Ducati is more easy to the eye and therefor is more widely appealing?  Hadn't thought of the XSR-900 and 300 versions but now you mention it, that must be a very likely path for them to go down.  Maybe to start with the 900 version would have been to much for entry level riders where it is targeted?  I mean, that engine is a beast.  Besides, with the 270 crank, the 700 has an amazing sound anyway  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 30, 2015, 17:07:17
Not too much to report on from the weekend but I did collect a few screen shots of an assembly I made comparing the different revisions of exhaust I made.  Plus took a photo of the prototypes side by side.  Its amazing what 1 degree here, half a degree there and a few millimeters there will do to the overall fit.  These very small changes each time got me closer and closer to having it sit just right on the bike.

The prototype with the green tape on is the latest and final version (is also the green version in the 3D screen shots).  This will be the design for the production run  8)  When its all up and running I might pay for a dyno run to see what affect the pipe has on performance.  Should be a healthy, but not crazy boost.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Aug 31, 2015, 14:56:30
I have an XS400 headlight with a cheap set of chrome fork tabs from china. Great $8 purchase. I cut the burnt bulb out and jb-welded in an H4 that is relayed to the battery.

I tried an LED bulb and it fried right away. The polarity was correct etc. Since I have a box of H4 bulbs, it was easy to give up on the LED.

Dropping the headlight is the key on this bike, not always the size IMO, but drop it enough that it looks right but watch that the fender doesn't strike the light on full fork compression.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 01, 2015, 04:22:48
I received all of the magazines I ordered from the 80s with SR250 reviews and road tests  ;D

If you're interested, I scanned them all hi-res and added them to the homepage:

http://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/#!other/cqh1
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 01, 2015, 04:25:13
Been working on some sticker designs too.  Not the most important task right now but I would call myself a 'creative' and have a hard time prioritising my time and often end up doing the tasks I think are most fun!  Rather than getting into some of the more laborious but very necessary tasks ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 01, 2015, 08:37:49
Got these in the post today.  CNC machined prototypes of the valve/tappet covers I designed.  They look awesome, quality is top notch.  I specified a heavy bead blasted surface - to remove the machine marks and to get the finish to match the rest of the cast engine a bit better.  A rough surface also increases surface area for better cooling.  The mistake I made was to have the whole part blasted - the inside/underside should be raw machined - after all, it is a mating surface.  Not only does it need to form a seal, it will also wick away more heat from the head with more contact surface area....  So I will set up some wet and dry sandpaper on a sheet of glass and sand those faces smooth myself.

I rekon they look pretty good.  Hoping they are a hit if priced right.  I have also ordered a head from an SR125 and the famous TW200 because I have a feeling these covers will fit them too  8)  Even if they dont have the same part number, I am hoping the hole patterns are the same.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 01, 2015, 09:27:24
A couple notes about the design of these parts...  I have since done a lot of research on air-cooled engine fin design and heat sinks.  Maybe I am looking into it too hard for some silly valve covers but its fun.  Most of the hard math and physics/thermal dynamic stuff goes a bit over my head, but there is a lot of good 'garage theory' out there around the subject from racers, engine tuners and car guys in general - talking about inter-coolers, oil coolers, heat exchangers etc.

A couple of things I did right:  The fin spacing and thickness is absolutely optimal for an engine that is to dissipate its heat in open air (rather than in controlled airflow with a fan and cover) at 1/4'' give or take - which was a fluke, but then again, I did just take the spacing from the existing head so you would expect the Yamaha engineers to be spot on.  Plus the rough surface finish is about the best you can get for shedding heat. 

A couple of things I will modify for the next prototype and eventual production run:  Change the material spec from 6061 to 6063 - it has similar machining properties but has a 20% better thermal conductivity rate as long as the temper is left alone.  Plus I think I will increase the internal cavities (volume) of both covers to catch more oil and hold it longer (to give it more of a chance to cool) before it drains back into the head and down to the sump again.  I am hoping it will shed a couple degrees with its contact with the covers.  The last contemplation is what finish could be best.  As said, the raw blasted surface is optimal, but might corrode over time.  It is advised to clear/silver anodize the parts to stop corrosion, but it does create a small thermal barrier.  Then I also read that anodizing heat sinks black might increase heat transfer by 3-8% but in some cases it can become a thermal barrier instead of radiator.  Either way its nominal and if I do get some anodized in black, it would be more for looks than performance.

Lastly, just when I thought this was an obsession, I found this video of a TW200 running with its valve covers off, and just as suspected, there is an incredible amount of oil being spat out each tappet - even at idle.  So imagine the volume at full tick.  There is also a really cool video of a V8 hot rod with clear valve covers where you can see how much oil spits onto them and the chance it would get to cool :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6NelDmVCOc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svjytSjd6g0
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Sep 02, 2015, 13:08:40
Jadus, I really appreciate the attention you're paying to the sr250. I'm sure I'll buy some bits off you to keep the little aftermarket stuff for it going
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 03, 2015, 03:57:56
Jadus, I really appreciate the attention you're paying to the sr250. I'm sure I'll buy some bits off you to keep the little aftermarket stuff for it going

Cheers cosworth, really appreciate that.  I'm so passionate about the SR250 myself I think it blinds me sometimes, but its a relief to see other people just as enthusiastic about it.  I'm trying to make parts that I felt were missing when I  built my first SR :)  Many aftermarket parts companies seem to be focusing so hard on the SR400/500, the XS650, CB350/750 and W650/800 but forget the SR250!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 04, 2015, 14:22:35
Has anyone else had trouble trying to find shorter control cables for the SR250?  I remember searching far and wide for some for my first SR build.  I needed them to fit the clip-ons I installed.  The original cables look all loopy and ridiculous with shorter bars and especially clip-ons.  I have seen a few otherwise nice builds ruined by these big pieces of black spaghetti out the font of the bike!  Anyone have any suggestions?

I think I ended up finding a clutch and brake cable from a KX80 or something like that fit?  But was stuck with the throttle.  I think I might have bought a cut to length kit?  Where I soldered on the appropriate end fittings?  Cant remember. 

Otherwise I will draw up the specs for some shorter cables in a CAD drawing and specify all the correct Yamaha fittings, then place a batch order and add them to the webshop as well.  Think it would be helpful to some.  I have seen these kits for the SR400 but it doesn't have the same fittings  ::)

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 06, 2015, 06:43:44
Figured I might as well go ahead and do the drawings anyway - good to have.  I think making an order for these shorter cables wouldn't be a bad idea anyway.

Started with the clutch cable, then will do throttle and brake.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 06, 2015, 12:22:04
Major distraction...  I picked up a used but very complete Ducati 600ss rear cylinder head on ebay for 30 quid.  The plan would be to adapt it to run on top of the stock SR engine - depending on how much modification would be required to either run the cam via chain drive as in the original system, or rig up a 2-1 reducing gear to be able to run the belt drive system of the Duc.  This idea will not be happening for this bike, but perhaps for a future build, would be fun.

Its amazing how easy the cam is to turn to operate the valves with the desmo system (by hand!) - no wonder Duc's have good torque, there is almost no power sapping resistance from the valve train.

On that note, does anyone know if there is a rev limiter on the SR?  Via the ignition system/CDI box?  Or would it only be limited by mechanical design - valve float perhaps?  If the latter, maybe the Duc head could raise the rpm ceiling of the engine?  Long way down the track for this kind of experimenting! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Sep 06, 2015, 19:59:27
"Its amazing how easy the cam is to turn to operate the valves with the desmo system (by hand!) - no wonder Duc's have good torque, there is almost no power sapping resistance from the valve train."

Actually, Ducati engines are not really known for their torque - they are known for their horsepower (which is achieved by higher revs due to the lower valve train inertia). Really large-displacement, slow-reving V-twin cruisers are known for their torque. Torque increases are usually from volumetric efficiencies (intake/exhaust scavenging), compression ratio (higher=more torque; also includes forced induction from super/turbochargers) and displacement (more=more torque). The better (rated) motorcycle engines have a higher/flatter torque curve, starting early in the rev range and continuing through redline and proper transmission gearing to keep the engine in max torque.

I would think that you would be better off trying to fit a Ducati V-twin into the SR250 frame than trying to change the SR250's head to include desmo valve action (not really - too much power for the SR250 frame and brakes).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 07, 2015, 03:52:23
I would think that you would be better off trying to fit a Ducati V-twin into the SR250 frame than trying to change the SR250's head to include desmo valve action (not really - too much power for the SR250 frame and brakes).

Haha, true, would be damn near disastrous.  Good notes on torque vs hp though.  Should have thought harder about that one.  Torque on the cruiser v-twins is also achieved from the rather long strokes they often have - as apposed to over-square high revving twins.  Which the SR is not, its quite over-square itself.  In fact, it shares the same bore and stroke as the many of the 1000cc 4-pot sports bikes :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Sep 08, 2015, 15:17:22
The XS400 and XS360 motor fits. You mod the swingarm mount and fab a front Y to split and miss the oil filter.

Wiring it into the SR harness is easy with the twin coils. You have to fiddle with the kickstand to fit a pipe on the left.

From 20hp to 35hp and most people have removed far more than the difference in motor weight. EBC shoes up front, a drilled vent, and a new front cable would allay my fears of stopping it.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Sep 08, 2015, 15:31:31
It also shares the same rings as the XS650. Not in theory, in practice. I have 500kms on the new XS650 rings in my SR250 motor.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 09, 2015, 03:10:49
It also shares the same rings as the XS650. Not in theory, in practice. I have 500kms on the new XS650 rings in my SR250 motor.

Sweet, good to know.  Is that with stock bore?  Then one could presume that the overbores would work too?  On that note, how different are the pistons side by side?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 09, 2015, 03:18:43
Got to a point yesterday where I said fuck it, no more excuses, its time for the 'strip, bag 'n tag'.  In the past I have been much better about labeling everything - but I know the SR so well now I will get it back together without too much trouble. 

She looks pretty damn naked!  Ahead of me it a whole lot of frame tidying, bead blasting, sanding, paint prep, painting, then re-assembly  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Sep 09, 2015, 03:52:24
Sweet, good to know.  Is that with stock bore?  Then one could presume that the overbores would work too?  On that note, how different are the pistons side by side?

The pistons are different, but the rings are shared.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 10, 2015, 19:07:05
I drove for 5 hours today to go and visit one of my suppliers.  He has been pretty bad with communication and I suspected it was because he is super busy and maybe that I write to him in English.  So I figured it would be worth driving, shaking hands and meeting the guy and have a good chat with him.  Luckily my Swedish is at a very good level speaking wise - I just write so badly its embarrassing - so that made the conversation pretty easy.  And he was super busy - does stuff for all sorts of Swedish companies, Volvo included.  But he'll fit my job into the schedule. 

Anyway, was well worth the trip.  It was such an impressive workshop - 3 different hydraulic, digitally indexed tube bending machines, lathes, mills, all sorts of welding equipment and shelves and shelves of different sizes and types of tube.  He will make the exhaust for me and a few other parts, super capable of doing most things actually.

Really cool that he was into bikes too!  So funny in this industry - one of my other suppliers is also into bikes!  It means they are really passionate about doing stuff for other bikers.  This guy had semi-raked Harley and a SR400 and was telling me how much he regretted selling his old XT500!  Its awesome to be doing business with people I can meet and talk to and who take pride in their work  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Sep 12, 2015, 08:05:22
Where's he located? I'm thinking about doing a universal type of frame for my final project at uni but we don't have good enough tools in our workshop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 13, 2015, 06:09:23
Where's he located? I'm thinking about doing a universal type of frame for my final project at uni but we don't have good enough tools in our workshop.

Hes up in Valberg.  He has made some Sportster hard tail kits for a guy out of Halmstad too, so very capable of something like that.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 17, 2015, 17:32:39
Yesterday I took delivery of a 7.5hp compressor with a 180L tank :)  This should do the trick for the blasting that is to come.  Only problem was getting down to my basement workshop all on my own.  The delivery guy couldnt get it down the ramp for me and had to run.  So I rigged up a two strap system where I could let alternate ones go 5cm at a time.  Worked a treat, just took a while.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 17, 2015, 17:37:17
Today I glued together another seat prototype.  Still not quite right but very close now.  I like the lines and most of the measurements underneath line up with the frame details.

I also welded up some of the exhaust header on the XS750 I am working on for a customer.  Trying harder to get some neater welds with the gas welder and I got one that came up alrite.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 18, 2015, 09:46:10
Today I got to test fit the machined prototype I had made for the finned oil filter cover.  Fits perfect.  Really cool to see it right next to the plastic 3D printed prototype I made too.  Really helps with product development.

Looks like it will sit out in the nice cool breeze when cruising - without being too obtrusive.


Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 18, 2015, 09:52:14
I also got the Harley mirrors I ordered in the mail.  For some reason I really like this shape Harley has come up with.  On a bike like this, I didn’t want round ones, didn't want square/rectangular ones, or tacky chopper style ones or CNC billet ones either, so it had to be the Harley style.  A simple bent rod then an elegant shape.  I have ridden without mirrors before and sure, the bike looks waaay cooler, but I really miss being able to see behind me and beside me without turning my head.  Practicality out weighs style here for me.  Might take them off for any photos etc though.

Anyway, of coarse being Harley, they had imperial threads (3/8''s I think).  So I had to chop the threaded end off and weld on the end from the butt ugly stock mirrors.  No harm done by sacrificing these ;)

I ground a large chamfer so I could get a deep strong weld.  Welding something this chunky generates a lot of heat though so I was careful not to scorch the rest of the mirror.  I have a little finishing to do still - its a bit rough looking and I only had matte black spray paint so it doesn't really match the rest of the mirror.  So I'll do some more filing and paint it with gloss again when I get some. 

I am considering threading the other mirror instead - with a M10x1.25 die.  If I can find one for a decent price, this might save the effort with welding...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 19, 2015, 09:05:44
Today I started taking some more stuff off the bike.  I wanted to get the chain off - requiring me to take off the alternator side engine case.  Since I bought my first impact driver over 7 years ago, I have sworn it has been my best tool when working on old bikes.  Put in the right bit, set it for the right direction and bash away.  Never had a problem before, it has always got corroded bolts loose for me....  Until this one!  It was so stuck that the Philips bit stripped the whole screw head.  So I drilled the head off so I could at least get the cover off.  Then I grabbed the remaining screw with some beefy vice grips and tried unscrewing it...  No joy.  The entire screw snapped right at the point it enters the engine case.

Now I'll have to get a bolt extractor kit.  Never used (or had to use) one before so I hope it works on bolts as small as M6!

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Sep 19, 2015, 16:38:06
I've never had luck with an extractor where the bolt is actually stuck and wont turn. Left hand drill bits are the way to go IMO.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 21, 2015, 03:05:28
I've never had luck with an extractor where the bolt is actually stuck and wont turn. Left hand drill bits are the way to go IMO.

Thanks for the tip man.  So you just punch a center in the middle of the bolt and drill away?  Any suggestion for diameter of drill bit for an M6? 5mm I would guess?  Don't want to damage the thread in the cases if possible.  Worst case I install a helicoil kit.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Sep 21, 2015, 16:58:33
Thanks for the tip man.  So you just punch a center in the middle of the bolt and drill away?  Any suggestion for diameter of drill bit for an M6? 5mm I would guess?  Don't want to damage the thread in the cases if possible.  Worst case I install a helicoil kit.

I would start with a 2mm bit and work up to the 5, unless the bit is centered directly you are probably going to drill off some threads with the 5mm. Also i would soak the bolt in a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF to help loosen it, alot of the time once you drill the middle out, the bolt turns out by the action of the drill bit turning anti-clockwise.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 23, 2015, 18:04:53
Thanks again for the tips doc.  Should have hunted around harder for those left hand drill bits! Haha

It's always the unexpected things that you dont count on that kill the progress of a build.  This damn screw!

The local hardware store didn't have any left hand drills but they did have a bolt extractor kit.  So I thought I would give that a crack first.  Was doing everything right (I think) then the worst possible happened.  I was really trying to feel the tension on the bit but I guess they are more brittle than I thought - and it snapped!  >:(  These fckers are hardened steel too, so this is actually the worst thing one can do when trying to remove a stuck bolt.  Gaargh.  Was pretty pissed.  Now I gotta find a carbide tip drill or something.  I dont think HSS bits will do it either.  I rounded a couple of my standard ones before giving up for the day.  This thing is fckn stuck!  I'm gonna have to drill the whole thing out tomorrow and install a thread kit.  If there's one thing I have learned in the shop, its that there is always a fix  ;D

Pictures tell the story.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 23, 2015, 18:19:35
On a more positive note, I got all the parts for the Tank Leveling Kit sorted and actually shipped a few out to people on Monday  ;D

I hope the install goes well for these first customers.  They are like the Beta testers for my start up haha.  I will stay in contact with them and then with their input, update any parts and/or instructions if needed.

If there's anyone else that wants to install one on their SR just send me a pm  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Sep 23, 2015, 22:51:06
Unfortunately, your experience with the bolt extractor kit is fairly common. Left-twist drill bits like Doc said, or weld-on a nut to the remaining bolt (many times the heat of welding will break loose the threads) and use a socket wrench.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Sep 23, 2015, 22:54:19
Thanks again for the tips doc.  Should have hunted around harder for those left hand drill bits! Haha

It's always the unexpected things that you dont count on that kill the progress of a build.  This damn screw!

The local hardware store didn't have any left hand drills but they did have a bolt extractor kit.  So I thought I would give that a crack first.  Was doing everything right (I think) then the worst possible happened.  I was really trying to feel the tension on the bit but I guess they are more brittle than I thought - and it snapped!  >:(  These fckers are hardened steel too, so this is actually the worst thing one can do when trying to remove a stuck bolt.  Gaargh.  Was pretty pissed.  Now I gotta find a carbide tip drill or something.  I dont think HSS bits will do it either.  I rounded a couple of my standard ones before giving up for the day.  This thing is fckn stuck!  I'm gonna have to drill the whole thing out tomorrow and install a thread kit.  If there's one thing I have learned in the shop, its that there is always a fix  ;D

Pictures tell the story.

Yeah that why I don't use them. they always break off if the bolt is really stuck. Your only two options are to try and dremel it out with a carbide bit, or take it to a machine shop with an EDM or simular. Ive never been abel to drill one out with a carbide bit, plus shit can go south real quick if you are not deadnuts centered on that extractor. If youre gonna tear the motor down anyway I would just take it to a shop. good luck
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 25, 2015, 12:23:25
Your advice saved me doc.  It was too late to try you suggestion though zap, unfortunately.

I took a trip to a massive hardware store and bought a couple of drill bits and some dremel bits - thought I've give them both a crack.  The drills, even the colbalt and titanium, as doc suggested, didn't do shit.  Just made a mess around the hole - which I am almost embarrassed to post a picture of!  :-\

The carbide dremel bits saved the day though.  These things are so damn hard.  They ate through it like butter.  Still took a good amount of time and care, but eventually I got through the entire bolt extractor and stuck screw.  The diamond coated grinder worked well too, but not as fast.  In the end, all of the bits took a beating though - in this case, they were a one time use cos now they're stuffed.

After that I was all ready to start installing a helicoil when I thought I would just run a M6 tap through the hole to check what was left there.  Turns out most of the thread was fine.  So I screwed in a M6 bolt and torqued it down to spec just to check and it held up!  Then I just cleaned up the area a bit with a needle file.  Looks like I got lucky this time.  If it causes any trouble in the future I'll just bite the bullet and install the helicoil.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Sep 25, 2015, 15:46:52
Good day to go fishing or buy a lottery ticket. Keep the streak alive.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 25, 2015, 15:55:35
Thanks again for the tips doc.  Should have hunted around harder for those left hand drill bits! Haha

It's always the unexpected things that you dont count on that kill the progress of a build.  This damn screw!

The local hardware store didn't have any left hand drills but they did have a bolt extractor kit.  So I thought I would give that a crack first.  Was doing everything right (I think) then the worst possible happened.  I was really trying to feel the tension on the bit but I guess they are more brittle than I thought - and it snapped!  >:(  These fckers are hardened steel too, so this is actually the worst thing one can do when trying to remove a stuck bolt.  Gaargh.  Was pretty pissed.  Now I gotta find a carbide tip drill or something.  I dont think HSS bits will do it either.  I rounded a couple of my standard ones before giving up for the day.  This thing is fckn stuck!  I'm gonna have to drill the whole thing out tomorrow and install a thread kit.  If there's one thing I have learned in the shop, its that there is always a fix  ;D

Pictures tell the story.


That sucks out loud!!!!!!
Great recovery though!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Sep 26, 2015, 17:43:43
If you find yourself in similar straits again, here's an old tip from the (air-cooled) VW world: heat up the tip of the broken stud until it glows red hot, then touch it with a paraffin wax stick so it melts and draws into the threads. Let it cool and (most times) you can just unscrew the stud remnant.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 28, 2015, 02:59:31
If you find yourself in similar straits again, here's an old tip from the (air-cooled) VW world: heat up the tip of the broken stud until it glows red hot, then touch it with a paraffin wax stick so it melts and draws into the threads. Let it cool and (most times) you can just unscrew the stud remnant.

Great tip!  So I guess the heat doesn't distort the cases or anything?

Yeah I am pretty stoked how things turned out.  I think I would have been more stressed if it was the wet side crank case cover, but this side is not as critical.  Definitely learned a few things in the process! 

_  Bolt extractors suck
_  If the bolt was is stuck, the head breaks trying to remove it, its best to drill it out anyway (or try Zap's tip in the future)
_  You'll never be able to drill through one
_  Carbide bits are awesome
_  A thread can look pretty bad but still work ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 30, 2015, 12:14:25
I stripped things even further today - wheels and forks off, swingarm out, chain off, then eventually, engine out.

One of the bests things about the SR250 is its lightweight.  I was able to lift the whole engine in the frame onto the work bench for easy working access.  Not too many other bikes you can do that with. 

Now Im gonna make special blanking plates for all the open holes - starter motor hole, exhaust, intake, speedo drive, sprocket side hole etc so that it is masked up super tight with everything buttoned down before I blast it.  I like the look of a blasted engine and this will be a pretty quick way to get it looking good again  ;D

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sincerelyadam on Oct 03, 2015, 11:23:17
Jadus, this thread is so great. I recently bought a 1980 SR250 as my first street bike. It is running fine and I'll ride it til it gets too cold here in Philadelphia, USA. But I'm as interested in learning how to work on the bike as I am riding it, so I'm planning on stripping it down over the winter (like you just did) and cleaning everything, blasting and painting. I'll make some mods, not much to the engine though, cause if it ain't broke I'll probably break it  :P My eventual goal is sort of a street scrambler.

I've read every word of your build thread, little bits every morning before work, and it's been so informative and insightful. Now I'm caught up to date and looking forward to seeing the progress from here.

I'm also really impressed with your product development for this specific model. I've already fallen in love with my bike and I love it's simplicity, but there are certainly a few things that can be improved and I think you're hitting all those points. I'll certainly be ordering some pieces in a few months. I think someone mentioned it already, but I think a fork brace kit with included fender would be great. You could even develop a few different fenders to create options for customers.

Thanks for all the thoroughness and photos. It's a great help for us newbs!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 06, 2015, 04:45:42
Jadus, this thread is so great. I recently bought a 1980 SR250 as my first street bike. It is running fine and I'll ride it til it gets too cold here in Philadelphia, USA. But I'm as interested in learning how to work on the bike as I am riding it, so I'm planning on stripping it down over the winter (like you just did) and cleaning everything, blasting and painting. I'll make some mods, not much to the engine though, cause if it ain't broke I'll probably break it  :P My eventual goal is sort of a street scrambler.

I've read every word of your build thread, little bits every morning before work, and it's been so informative and insightful. Now I'm caught up to date and looking forward to seeing the progress from here.

I'm also really impressed with your product development for this specific model. I've already fallen in love with my bike and I love it's simplicity, but there are certainly a few things that can be improved and I think you're hitting all those points. I'll certainly be ordering some pieces in a few months. I think someone mentioned it already, but I think a fork brace kit with included fender would be great. You could even develop a few different fenders to create options for customers.

Thanks for all the thoroughness and photos. It's a great help for us newbs!

Thanks for the kind words adam.  I will be very interested to follow what you do with your bike and what you manage to do over winter.  I dont love winter but in one way, it gives project minded people like myself and many others the chance to knuckle down and really try to create something in those dark, cold months.  Best of all is if that creation can give pleasure and enjoyment in the summer months!  Bikes are perfect there  ;D

The fender/brace kit is a cool idea and I am still trying to track down a reliable supplier for making the fenders.  But when it happens, I'll def add it as an option on the webshop.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 06, 2015, 04:56:38
I hated the grossly proportioned and weirdly detailed levers/perches that were on this bike so I went hunting for some new ones.  Its actually not that easy to find lever sets that fit all requirements for this bike.  I really wanted:

_  Black perch and levers
_  Made for 7/8'' bars
_  Both with mirror mount threads - preferably M10x1.25 size/pitch
_  Brake lever with built in brake light switch
_  Brake lever made for drum brakes!
_  Complete sets that include the adjustment and locking knobs as well

Stupidly hard to find lever sets with those things for a reasonable price.  After searching pretty hard, I found out that lever sets for certain years of Royal Enfields fit these exact specifications!  Even down to the weird Yamaha left hand thread on the clutch lever (or is it brake?).  Either way I will be using a thread adapter so I can run what ever mirrors I like.

I bought a set from ebay and was real dissapointed - terrible quality, missing parts and threads, miss-matching parts, paint chips and general false advertising from the seller - check out the photo.  The switch was so poorly made that it popped out when using it and the lever was so sloppy that it would push the switch off on an angle and bend its plastic button.  What can you expect for 9£ though right? 

I ended up ordering some from Hitchcocks - the Enfield specialists.  And I am sure I can rely on the quality from them.  Fingers crossed.  I paid much more but you pay for what you get as always.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: r.s.hutchinson on Oct 06, 2015, 11:06:05
I hated the grossly proportioned and weirdly detailed levers/perches that were on this bike so I went hunting for some new ones.  Its actually not that easy to find lever sets that fit all requirements for this bike.  I really wanted:

_  Black perch and levers
_  Made for 7/8'' bars
_  Both with mirror mount threads - preferably M10x1.25 size/pitch
_  Brake lever with built in brake light switch
_  Brake lever made for drum brakes!
_  Complete sets that include the adjustment and locking knobs as well

Stupidly hard to find lever sets with those things for a reasonable price.  After searching pretty hard, I found out that lever sets for certain years of Royal Enfields fit these exact specifications!  Even down to the weird Yamaha left hand thread on the clutch lever (or is it brake?).  Either way I will be using a thread adapter so I can run what ever mirrors I like.

I bought a set from ebay and was real dissapointed - terrible quality, missing parts and threads, miss-matching parts, paint chips and general false advertising from the seller - check out the photo.  The switch was so poorly made that it popped out when using it and the lever was so sloppy that it would push the switch off on an angle and bend its plastic button.  What can you expect for 9£ though right? 

I ended up ordering some from Hitchcocks - the Enfield specialists.  And I am sure I can rely on the quality from them.  Fingers crossed.  I paid much more but you pay for what you get as always.


Why not just drill and tap the levers for the appropriate thread instead of using adaptors?

I too had a hard time finding even just a drum brake lever with a switch for the brake light. Or atleast one that matched my clutch lever I guess but I remember searching pages and pages on ebay.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Oct 06, 2015, 12:21:46
Lots of repro items for old Japanese "Scrambler" type bikes available new. Like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-8-Honda-Suzuki-Kawasaki-Yamaha-Lever-Brake-Clutch-Perch-Set-Combe-One-Pair-/301637557874?hash=item463affde72&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 06, 2015, 12:30:44

Why not just drill and tap the levers for the appropriate thread instead of using adaptors?

I too had a hard time finding even just a drum brake lever with a switch for the brake light. Or atleast one that matched my clutch lever I guess but I remember searching pages and pages on ebay.

Yeah tell me about it.  The only way to drill and tap the perches to fit another mirror would be if the existing threads were M8 and you could drill and tap for an M10.  One of these perches is M10 normal, the other is M10 reverse - hence the need for the reverse thread adapter.  I could drill out the reverse thread and install a thread insert, but it would be a mission to find an M10x1.25 tap and then a M10x1.25 insert as well.  Besides, the adapters I found are pretty neat I thought. 

Where did you end up getting your brake lever from?  Or at least, what was it made for?  Was it just titled 'universal'? 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 06, 2015, 15:49:57
Lots of repro items for old Japanese "Scrambler" type bikes available new. Like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-8-Honda-Suzuki-Kawasaki-Yamaha-Lever-Brake-Clutch-Perch-Set-Combe-One-Pair-/301637557874?hash=item463affde72&vxp=mtr

Damn that guy (k1motorcycle) is an awesome source for parts.  Cheers zap
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: r.s.hutchinson on Oct 06, 2015, 19:01:21
Damn that guy (k1motorcycle) is an awesome source for parts.  Cheers zap

Here is the exact one I got because it was the closest match to the lever I had already for the clutch.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371087768906?item=371087768906&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:CA:3160&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/371087768906?item=371087768906&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:CA:3160&vxp=mtr)

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 07, 2015, 03:38:07
Here is the exact one I got because it was the closest match to the lever I had already for the clutch.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371087768906?item=371087768906&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:CA:3160&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/371087768906?item=371087768906&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:CA:3160&vxp=mtr)

Looks nice.  Thats exactly what I was looking for too.  Too bad that same seller doesnt have a matching clutch assembly.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 07, 2015, 03:46:46
Got these headlight brackets in the mail today.  The quality/finish is awesome.  The welding is like art.  So I am pretty chuffed.  The nice thing is, the mounting holes are offset from the center, so you can choose to mount the headlight low or high.  I have no idea if many/any people would be interested in these.  So I will wait to advertise them or order any production quantities.  I just like the fact that they cover the chrome stanchions and give a darker/heavier front feel - making the wimpy 32mm stanchions look a bit more substantial and giving the option for colour personalisation - black for me!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Oct 07, 2015, 11:08:54
Aluminum or steel? And how do they mount on the forks - 3 "O" rings (2 for top/bottom internal, 32mm one for a base), a wrap of old inner tube?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 07, 2015, 14:26:11
Aluminum or steel? And how do they mount on the forks - 3 "O" rings (2 for top/bottom internal, 32mm one for a base), a wrap of old inner tube?

All in ally - they're pretty light.  Yeah good guess, they're held in place with 2 o-rings.  One top and one bottom.  Seems to work a treat.  Stock ones on say the XS750 or Honda CBs have similar set ups - except theirs are moulded rubber parts of coarse!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Oct 07, 2015, 20:00:36
Sounds like you could package-up a kit and market it on your site...
Only 2 "O" rings internally? I thought the older bikes that had this arrangement had a "shouldered" bushing on the mount bottom (maybe the top too?) so that the mount did not rattle against either triple (i.e., sliding up/down) while riding?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 08, 2015, 17:54:27
Sounds like you could package-up a kit and market it on your site...
Only 2 "O" rings internally? I thought the older bikes that had this arrangement had a "shouldered" bushing on the mount bottom (maybe the top too?) so that the mount did not rattle against either triple (i.e., sliding up/down) while riding?

Yeah you are right, the OEM ones had a moulded 'shouldered' rubber bushing - which is the ideal set up.  But from the test install I did, the o-ring top and bottom seem to hold it in place pretty well.  The o-ring is thick and does not actually fit between the stanchions and walls of the brackets, rather they get 'sandwiched' between the top and bottom edges of the bracket and the triple trees.  Will be good to see how they hold up to vibes after a few weeks of riding :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 08, 2015, 18:06:04
I received the levers from Hitchcocks today.  Much, much better quality.  Its seems even they too have issues getting consistency with some stuff though - the colour matching of the blacks is not 100% and the hardware, although good quality, is a little different either side - especially the adjuster knobs (why couldn't they be exactly the same part???).  I was really hoping these would almost be like a 'mirrored' left and right lever (with the switch etc).  Agh, I'm just being fussy now.

I rekon the thread adapters I put in them dont look half bad either.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 08, 2015, 18:10:23
Also had a go at this recent hip trend of making an anal-retentive exploded view of some detailed mechanical thing.  Wasn't too much of a deviation off practicality though - the carb was getting a strip and clean anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sincerelyadam on Oct 09, 2015, 08:51:47
Also had a go at this recent hip trend of making an anal-retentive exploded view of some detailed mechanical thing.

haha that is most definitely a thing. http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 10, 2015, 05:50:32
haha that is most definitely a thing. http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/

Haha awesome.  The first one I saw was actually an entire Kawasaki H3.  That was one of the early ones several years ago and it blew my mind.  Then I really like the ones that Classic Bike do every few issues of an exploded engine in great detail.  Cool stuff!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 13, 2015, 19:06:57
Got the front guard I designed/ordered in the mail today.  I have mixed feelings about it.  On one hand, its amazing that its hand made and its freaking awesome that people have these skills and I am grateful for that.  On the other hand, it'll be the only part on the bike that will 'look' hand made.  Sure, its charming and original, but I am more of a design for production kinda designer rather than an artist kind of designer.  Plus its just not quite right.  I made a drawing for the part and sent it to the guy and offered to send the 3D printed prototype as well but he said he didn't need it.  I wish I had sent it anyway.  Then he would have had something to match it up against - like a buck.  I printed out the curvature at 1:1 scale and cut it out and put it in the middle of the guard - you can see its a way too tight of a curve.  I know how hard these double curvatures are to get - I have done a couple of metal shaping classes myself (I sucked) but I wanted it to be a bit more mellow than this.  I'll put it on the tyre tomorrow and see what it looks like before deciding to use it or not.  Looks like if I did want to start selling these, I will need to invest in some press tools, rather than going down the hand made path...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 14, 2015, 10:41:30
Got a chance to see what the fender would look like in context.  I think it will look good.  It could have been a bit wider - this can be seen when comparing to the prototype too.  But the curvature is actually fine and the radius of the fender is perfect  :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Habanero52 on Oct 14, 2015, 11:50:03
That is good looking fender!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 26, 2015, 10:26:38
That is good looking fender!

Cheers Habanero.  I cant take credit for making it, but the design maybe ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 26, 2015, 10:37:07
Its been a pretty slow couple of weeks on the build front - I blame life getting in the way and needing to generate money - sucks haha.  I have been doing some design consulting for a couple of companies to try and bring in some dosh though.  Highly necessary to continue!

Anyway, couple of parts arrived in the post today.  Some tacho block-off plugs I designed a couple weeks back.  They look good.  Perhaps a bit hard to get without seeing them in context - I will take some pics when I am in the shop next.  One is for the XS750 I am working on for a mate/customer and the other is for the SR.  The cool thing with the SR one is that it fits the front speedo drive hole as well (see comparison next to chopped speedo drive cable/fitting).  So if ever someone wanted to block that off and use an aftermarket speedo with a magnetic pick up, they could use this plug. 

Anyone know if the US and Spain model SR's came standard with a tachometer?  I know the Australia delivered models didn't (there is just a blank boss in the head casting) but I think most of the European models did - at least to Sweden, Germany and Denmark...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Oct 26, 2015, 10:40:25
The USA version SR185/250 did not get a tach.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: teledan on Oct 26, 2015, 10:56:30
Nice!  Looks about like the tach plug I made for my SR500:

(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss319/teledan/My%20XT500/2015-06-06%2022.55.42_zpsgpeqe1ez.jpg) (http://s587.photobucket.com/user/teledan/media/My%20XT500/2015-06-06%2022.55.42_zpsgpeqe1ez.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Oct 26, 2015, 13:39:40
I'd kill for a good euro head for the SR. I want a tach. I'm hoping to find one when I go to the UK at christmas.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: hdscarbro on Oct 26, 2015, 15:11:26
I used an electronic tach on my SR250 cafe.  Works well.

(http://david.scarbro.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/IMG_0241.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Oct 26, 2015, 15:16:14
Which one? Supplier? I like the look of that.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: hdscarbro on Oct 26, 2015, 15:23:05
Here's a link to the one I bought from Dime City Cycle (http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-electronic-parts-mini-chrome-white-face-tach-tachometer-49-0293.html).  I think the brand is "Bikers Choice" which is available though lots of places.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 26, 2015, 18:11:07
Thanks for the info Zap!  So perhaps there wouldn't be such a large need for these after all...

Teledan that plug looks nice!  You make it yourself?  You got a lathe?  Looks like the one I designed could fit the SR400/500 too then perhaps?

I've used a tacho like that before too - on a DT400.  Do you wrap a wire around the spark plug lead for that one hdscarbro?  I found the one I had lagged quite badly.  But that could simply come down to quality.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Oct 26, 2015, 19:04:54
Buying tachs are hit and miss I find. I've returned two that didn't have a switch or wire combo to run a single cylinder.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: hdscarbro on Oct 26, 2015, 19:40:54
I've used a tacho like that before too - on a DT400.  Do you wrap a wire around the spark plug lead for that one hdscarbro?  I found the one I had lagged quite badly.  But that could simply come down to quality.

It connects to a wire going to the coil, not the spark plug wire.  Not a noticable lag.  I can shoot a video tomorrow if anyone's interested in seeing it in operation.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Oct 26, 2015, 20:45:48
That would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: hdscarbro on Oct 27, 2015, 12:13:02
Here it is. (https://youtu.be/VoYRRwIXoAg)

That would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Oct 27, 2015, 12:33:48
Perfect. Any special wiring other than switched power and the lead to the coil positive?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 27, 2015, 13:26:37
That one looks perfectly responsive!  I rekon it would be better to install one of them than to try and get a head with the mechanical drive.  Cool that this is an option.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Oct 27, 2015, 13:29:49
My thoughts exactly Jadus. I just put my head back on with the top end rebuild, This is just making a mounting plate and taking the tank off. Makes me rethink my speedo as well. To get a matching set.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 27, 2015, 13:41:13
My thoughts exactly Jadus. I just put my head back on with the top end rebuild, This is just making a mounting plate and taking the tank off. Makes me rethink my speedo as well. To get a matching set.

Yeah, I know that feeling when you've just buttoned everything down, you dont really want to take it apart again!  Will look nifty with matching clocks for sure.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 27, 2015, 13:51:42
Side note...

I came across this SR250 about 2 years ago now.  I first saw/heard it on a youtube video that has since been taken down  :(   I googled for hours, on several separate occasions just to be able to find these two pictures - which I found on a Japanese forum somewhere.

It has to be one of the coolest SRs I have seen and definitely the most race prepped/intentional SR250 I have ever seen.  Even though it still has lights and everything, it looks like it has been set up for track days etc and that was what the video showed as well.  I see so many custom parts.  The most interesting to me is probably:

_ The wheel/hub conversion/adaptation - look sick!
_ The flatslide pumper carb (wonder what throat size it has?)
_ The exhaust - it must be custom made and looks single walled as well
_ The front guard is real nice
_ The tank, obviously
_ The switch of the foot controls - why would someone set it up like this?  Someone who was/is used to the old British set up with the brake on left, shifter on the right? Pretty awesome linkage set up there anyway
_ The crankcase breather catch-tank thingy.  Whats going on there?

I would love to know if anyone knows any more about this bike and/or its owner.  I would really like to know if there was many internal engine mods done too - I suspect there would have been.  So cool!

Any takers?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Oct 27, 2015, 14:18:24
Pretty bike. But heavy with all those extras. I weigh more than my bike.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: hdscarbro on Oct 27, 2015, 15:34:38
It also has ground and backlight wires.  So, in total there are four wires: switched power, ground, coil and backlight.  The backlight is kinda too bright at night.

Perfect. Any special wiring other than switched power and the lead to the coil positive?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 28, 2015, 18:56:28
Heres the tacho block off/blanking plug in context...  Both in the head and in the speedo drive hole.

The idea is that I will be able to re-use the original clip that held the cable fitting in place.  Otherwise I will hunt down the correct size inside circlip.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 29, 2015, 03:09:07
I Had a chance to tidy up the frame a bit too - remove some tabs and clean some welds.  I dont really like to touch the welds, but the ones on this bike were so ugly that some of them required a little attention.

I never got the key for the head stem lock when I got the bike - rendering it useless.  So I decided to cut it off and smooth it.  I have seen someone else do this and it looked good :)

My effort wasn't so pretty but I will either fill the holes with weld and smooth it out or use filler (if I decide to spray paint instead of powder coat).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 29, 2015, 10:50:35
I managed to finish the other mirror as well while I had the welder fired up... 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 31, 2015, 05:44:44
Got busy properly masking up the engine and carb yesterday - in preparation for bead blasting.  There are many people that are staunchly against this, and I understand why.  I will begin first by blasting an area of it with soda as this is quite harmless.  If that doesn't give the 'look' I am after, I will blast it with glass bead.  Which I know looks good, it just somehow finds its way into every tiny open crack everywhere.  Hence the extra care with making special plates, gasket paper and bolts to properly close off all openings.  Fingers crossed...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 31, 2015, 08:12:28
i really like what you are doing with that yamer hammer ! an aluminum lever arm for the front bake off any yamaha dirt bike  would look better than stamped steel and weigh less !  :)
and if you need more front brake there is a way to improve the single cam brake in fact it was std equipment on the 1981 yz250 this was right when all mfgs were switching to twin cam brake in the front 2-3 years later came the disc brake
yamaha even promoted the offset cam in ad literature it was not a huge improvement but something you may be able to do
what it was was either the actual cam had a short side or it was slighty off normal center , it was putting some more movement in the trailing shoe i think
of course a twin cam brake plate could be easily adopted as well
cheers keep up the great work !!!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Oct 31, 2015, 12:42:36
I glass bead carbs all the time.  I disassemble them completely first, and only do the bodies, bowls, caps, etc.  You can achieve a really nice, semi-shiny factory like finish by using brand new - as in never used - coarse glass beads (about 200 micron).  Yes, I get that the coarse size in counter intuitive.  Glass beads shatter into small sharp shards very quickly and leave a very dull and coarse surface that traps contaminants and never looks clean.  The coarse new beads leave a shiny smooth surface that stays clean looking and cleans up very well.  I have done hundreds of carbs and never had a problem.  I don't mask anything, but I make an effort to only blast the outside as I am only interested in the aesthetic result and clean the parts chemically afterward for function.  Finish with hot soapy water and a brush and the normal comprehensive inspection you would do on any rebuild/clean.  I did these old TZ carbs probably 20 years ago and they still look great - they have never had anything else done to them aside from getting an in-place blast of aerosol carb cleaner to remove fuel residue that accumulates. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 31, 2015, 18:14:06
i have bead blasted carbs inside and out just masked masked the slide bore walls made all kinds of golf tee plugs etc
i found that just spraying on silicone lube or water repellet for clothes scotchgaurd is all thats needed for some parts to stop them from staining worked pretty well for the fins on 2 stroke jugs on my racebikes,no clearcoat just the silicone to seal... better to shed the heat as well
mobius this is what i read about the mechanics of glass beads,the beads are annealed glass,and they flex every time they impact this flexing and bouncing lika a rubber ball, is how they efficiently remove surface layers like paint,scale, rust without cutting or wering away the base metal
used with correct pressure they have many cycles of impact after whitch eventually the beads work harden, then they esplode
fresh beads work wonders to bring life to a slightly worn but still usable piston,it can bring up the diameter about .001'' and the surface holds lube well and it also is a good prep for the moly coating i bake on
back to it carry on
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 02, 2015, 04:11:49
Thanks for the ideas on the brake xb.  Do you have any literature/links about that offset cam for the drum brake?  And have you seen anyone do the double cam adaptation?  I would be very interested to see any solutions there and would def try something myself if it looked doable for me.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 02, 2015, 04:18:18
I glass bead carbs all the time.  I disassemble them completely first, and only do the bodies, bowls, caps, etc.  You can achieve a really nice, semi-shiny factory like finish by using brand new - as in never used - coarse glass beads (about 200 micron). 

Thanks for tip and re-affirmation I was looking for to blast these things.  Those carbs look fantastic - exactly the look I am after.

Good ideas from you too xb with the spray lube/water repellent.  I have had that issue in the past where nicely blasted aluminium parts just collect dirt/oil etc and look dirty pretty quick again.  Didn't know it could be used on pistons!

This week I am going to try and set up a kind of walk in blasting room in my workshop.  I will build a wall with a door in one of the rooms, sealing off some area.  Then I'll silicone seal all the edges and get some extraction going to the window that is right there.  I think the freedom to be able to move around (especially with stuff like frames) will be great.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Nov 02, 2015, 06:05:48
hold on  ;D i dont use it on pistons for those i use KG coatings
it has the product ,gear coat ,(and manyu other coatings gunkote for one)which is the same as what kalgard used to sell \called piston kote
its a molyibdeum coating that you bake on any metal part,good stuff
back in the day these guys tole me about the stuff
'they were from my town and usa national number one in 1979 that is the kalgard sponsored tz750 chair right there
(http://www.winni-scheibe.com/images_textbildarchiv/sport/coleman/1980_coleman.jpg)

(http://www.winni-scheibe.com/images_textbildarchiv/lifestyle/bones_larry/team_coleman_1982.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 02, 2015, 18:17:29
hold on  ;D i dont use it on pistons for those i use KG coatings

Gotcha.  Yeah I meant I didn't know you could bead blast pistons and bring them back to life!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 02, 2015, 18:18:40
Was cleaning up a bit today and gonna throw out the seat prototypes.  Took 4-5 tries to get it right - both fitting the frame properly and the form I wanted.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 02, 2015, 18:21:46
Got mail too!  Hate it when the sender specifies signature required!  Gotta fluff around at home waiting for the package to come.  Much prefer getting a note in the post to say a package is waiting to be picked up at the local corner shop or whatever.

Anyway, it was the short cable samples I ordered.  They look pretty nice!  They are just missing some of the abrasion resistant sleeving I specified but other than that, seem spot on.  They should look much better than the lanky ass stock ones.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 02, 2015, 18:38:58
Was cleaning up a bit today and gonna throw out the seat prototypes.  Took 4-5 tries to get it right - both fitting the frame properly and the form I wanted.

damn thats a ton of 3d printing. what printer/media are you using?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 03, 2015, 02:04:02
The parts are printed with a 5% infill so there is as little plastic there as possible.  The printer I have is the Printrbot Metal Plus and the filament is PLA.  It took a long time to set the Printrbot up properly compared to a Makerbot (which I used at work) but now its dialed in its pretty reliable. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: datadavid on Nov 03, 2015, 06:17:27
Today I glued together another seat prototype.  Still not quite right but very close now.  I like the lines and most of the measurements underneath line up with the frame details.

I also welded up some of the exhaust header on the XS750 I am working on for a customer.  Trying harder to get some neater welds with the gas welder and I got one that came up alrite.
Are you doing the xs headers for a guy in Linköping? :)
If thats the case he asked me too, but i havent had a spare minute for the last year.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Nov 03, 2015, 07:03:09
Thanks for the ideas on the brake xb.  Do you have any literature/links about that offset cam for the drum brake?  And have you seen anyone do the double cam adaptation?  I would be very interested to see any solutions there and would def try something myself if it looked doable for me.
no i dont but it was in the ad literature that yamaha put in the magazines
specifically it was the 1980 yz250 i am almost certain now because i was racing at that time on a canam mx6-250
i broke one of the fork legs in half while competeing in the viginia city grand prix
i was never happy wiith the marzocchis anyway this was in 1983 so i went to the breakers and found the complete forks and wheel afrom the yamaha yz250  i think it was just the cam was either offse or one side a littkle longer
anyway the idea is to get more actual movement in the trailing shoe the trailing shoe is weaker the only way to make it stronger is move it more than the leading shoe
you asked about adopting a 2ls,i was going to do it with honda bike and parts  but i went another course a disc
all you need to do is find  an older yamha sreet bike or honda with the same diameter brake drum adopting the twin cam brake panel over will be simple some basic mahine work
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Nov 03, 2015, 10:49:05
here is the 1980 yz250 offset brake cam used only 1 year then they kept the same wheel and put on a twin cam brake like everybody else ,then in 84 or 85 disc brakes for the yz's
http://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-yz250-g-competion-19801981_model8776/camshaft_24x2515100/#.VjjF7rczYlw
and the 1978 same wheel ,same brake plate, no offset cam and a different part # :D ;)
http://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-yz250-g-competion-19801981_model8776/camshaft_24x2515100/#.VjjF7rczYlw

i
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 03, 2015, 15:17:16
Are you doing the xs headers for a guy in Linköping? :)
If thats the case he asked me too, but i havent had a spare minute for the last year.

Na its a dude from Stockholm.  They're a bit of a nightmare to try and fix and it's not the most professional job out there but it'll hold for a good while anyways.  Its those damn flanges that rust out and there doesn't seem to be any weld in repair parts available >:(
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 03, 2015, 15:18:31
here is the 1980 yz250 offset brake cam used only 1 year then they kept the same wheel and put on a twin cam brake like everybody else ,then in 84 or 85 disc brakes for the yz's
http://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-yz250-g-competion-19801981_model8776/camshaft_24x2515100/#.VjjF7rczYlw
and the 1978 same wheel ,same brake plate, no offset cam and a different part # :D ;)
http://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-yz250-g-competion-19801981_model8776/camshaft_24x2515100/#.VjjF7rczYlw

Damn so cool!  I was wondering of something could be done with the cam to boost the mechanical action without too much more strain at the hand.  I'm gonna try this!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 03, 2015, 15:22:39
On the topic of improving the braking performance, I studied this guys work pretty hard and would like to try some of the ideas for the next build I do.  Its great that racing always improves the breed and that this guy has taken the time to document everything.  Looks like the reason he stuck with the single sided, single cam drum and improved it was regulations in the racing class. 

I am so keen on a Bighorn now!  2-stroke single power!  Makes me miss my DT400.

http://www.klemmvintage.com/bighorntech.htm

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Nov 03, 2015, 15:49:35
I'd pay for a shock tube and a front wheel that has the caliper option. Newer SR250 stuff is so rare online.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Nov 03, 2015, 22:43:17
Damn so cool!  I was wondering of something could be done with the cam to boost the mechanical action without too much more strain at the hand.  I'm gonna try this!  Thanks!

glad you like that !
i actually did some testing wayback and recently to try to understanf some of the dynamics
all that is required is 2 dial indicators
secure the brake on a table thru the axle hole so that you can easily pull the cam lever in the correct direction as on the bike just some spacers on a long bolt so the brake is up off the table
then put the indicators on the shoes  at 9 oclock and 3 oclock.the cam at 12, position them evenly form the cam with accuracy !
then you can test away( good idea to get a spare cam) with a spare cam different offsets and even changing the contact radius of the cam will have an effect you can use welding or brazing to build up material
one thing to remember is that the leading shoe does most of the work probably 75% that shoe needs no help so i believe that the actual plan is to either reduce its acual movement slightly OR increase the movement of the trailing shoe
 be carefull to do accurate filing so the contact of the cam is not out of paralell
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 05, 2015, 10:20:56
I'll keep all that in mind when I am testing.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 05, 2015, 10:26:40
When a finally do blast the engine (hoping next week) I will be using one of these bolt kits I have prepared.  It has everything, down to the oil check bolt (a nice button head screw) and the clutch bracket even!  The only bolts it doesn't have are the 4 head bolts and the barrel bolts.  I will post up some pictures when I have mounted everything.

I am thinking about making a separate kit for the carb too...  Depends of there is a need/interest for it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jadus-Yamaha-SR250-Engine-Bolt-Kit-Black-Allen-Head-Bolts-/262127572748?hash=item3d0805570c:g:YaAAAOSw5VFWOgTD

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Nov 05, 2015, 13:38:19
Get those in stainless or titanium and you'll have buyers.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 05, 2015, 14:18:51
Get those in stainless or titanium and you'll have buyers.

I will look into titanium, I can imagine its insane expensive though. 

Never say never, but I don't think I will offer a Stainless kit - I really dont like what it does when combined with aluminum - being susceptible to galvanic corrosion and all.  I have personally messed up some good casings with stainless fasteners even with taking the precaution of adding anti-seize paste.  Not worth it in my opinion.  I know there will be some arguments for using SS, but there is a lot of information out there that says the two metals corrode and bind together - then you end up with stripped casings like I did.  Each to his own of coarse!  If you're not going to ride in the wet, then you're not adding the electrolyte and nothing should corrode (in a perfect world), so then using SS would be fine!  But I wouldn't want to sell a product that could be responsible for ruining someones engine...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Nov 05, 2015, 16:59:31
I have a UK sourced stainless bolt kit on my SR250.

Zero corrosion. The bolts are in dry. Zero issues. And I live in a wet climate. If I had a titanium bolt kit like I had on my gixxer, I'd heat them up to make the purply. Yum.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 05, 2015, 19:43:47
There is a large a variety of alloys in both aluminum and stainless, and this has a significant effect on galvanic corrosion. High corrosion resistance stainless alloys are usually expensive and not what you find in a hardware store. if I was gonna have custom bolts made I would go for 316, 15-5, 17-4, or nitronic 50. The precipitation hardened stainless alloys are very similar to the proprietary alloy ARP uses in its high strength stainless bolts.  A plated finish would be a good option too. IMHO black oxide shouldn't be used on anything that isn't regularly coated in oil, or where surface rust isn't an issue. BO will often rust just sitting on the shelf in a humid environment.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 06, 2015, 02:21:20
I have a UK sourced stainless bolt kit on my SR250.

Zero corrosion. The bolts are in dry. Zero issues. And I live in a wet climate. If I had a titanium bolt kit like I had on my gixxer, I'd heat them up to make the purply. Yum.

Thats sweet. I guess if they are the correct grade stainless (which a lot of cheaper fastenings are not) they would hold out and be slower to galvanize. 

You mean that purply sorta colour that titanium exhausts go?  I love that!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Nov 06, 2015, 02:36:15
There is a large a variety of alloys in both aluminum and stainless, and this has a significant effect on galvanic corrosion. High corrosion resistance stainless alloys are usually expensive and not what you find in a hardware store. if I was gonna have custom bolts made I would go for 316, 15-5, 17-4, or nitronic 50. The precipitation hardened stainless alloys are very similar to the proprietary alloy ARP uses in its high strength stainless bolts.  A plated finish would be a good option too. IMHO black oxide shouldn't be used on anything that isn't regularly coated in oil, or where surface rust isn't an issue. BO will often rust just sitting on the shelf in a humid environment.

that is some great information doc i dont understand as much as i think i know about metals and there makeup mechanical properties etc
maybe you could answer what kind of stainless steel can be hardened.the reason i ask is the old original works performance and curnutt shocks use a stainless rod 1/2" round and it is almost too hard to comfortably machine ,it holds up just fine to the harsh conditions,but if the rod gets minor pitts they can be blened smooth unlioke chromed shaft
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 06, 2015, 03:18:57
There is a large a variety of alloys in both aluminum and stainless, and this has a significant effect on galvanic corrosion. High corrosion resistance stainless alloys are usually expensive and not what you find in a hardware store. if I was gonna have custom bolts made I would go for 316, 15-5, 17-4, or nitronic 50. The precipitation hardened stainless alloys are very similar to the proprietary alloy ARP uses in its high strength stainless bolts.  A plated finish would be a good option too. IMHO black oxide shouldn't be used on anything that isn't regularly coated in oil, or where surface rust isn't an issue. BO will often rust just sitting on the shelf in a humid environment.

Thanks doc, that's really good info.  Yes, 316 is a grade that is often only used for higher end stuff because of its cost compared to 304.  And I didn't know about the nitronic 50 - it's always good to look towards marine stuff for quality!  Harshest environment possible!  The OEM bolts are steel - zinc plated, so of coarse this is the best/preferred method of coating/material for a cost-performance balance (otherwise the clever Japanese engineers wouldn't specify it right?).  I just really dont like the look of zinc plating, I personally think it looks tacky - like an off chrome if you know what I mean? 

I really like the black oxide finish - it is very similar to gun blueing and parkerizing (used extensively by Harley in the past) and has a very high aesthetic finish which I love, but as you say, requires a bit of care - an oil/grease coating from the beginning and a rub down every now and then (like gun maintenance).  But the big plus is dimensional stability with the coating process, and the fact that it is a non-sacrificial coating means there is little dimensional build up when they do corrode - means no stripped threads (hopefully)!  I always put a bit of gun oil or similar on these kind of fastenings when installing them, and I specify that with the kit.  I guess as long as people are aware, it will be down to personal preference.  Hope people would still be interested in the kit!  :(
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 06, 2015, 05:20:42
that is some great information doc i dont understand as much as i think i know about metals and there makeup mechanical properties etc
maybe you could answer what kind of stainless steel can be hardened.the reason i ask is the old original works performance and curnutt shocks use a stainless rod 1/2" round and it is almost too hard to comfortably machine ,it holds up just fine to the harsh conditions,but if the rod gets minor pitts they can be blened smooth unlioke chromed shaft

Its quite possible they are work hardened 304 that is super tough stuff. the only two heat treated alloys I know of are 17-4 and 15-5, i'm sure there are many others, lots of proprietary alloys.
 Sorry to thread jack.
you are doing nice work. I recently have gotten access to some 3D printers to mess around on, so I am quite interested in the work you are doing. what software are you using?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 09, 2015, 04:14:54
Its quite possible they are work hardened 304 that is super tough stuff. the only two heat treated alloys I know of are 17-4 and 15-5, i'm sure there are many others, lots of proprietary alloys.
 Sorry to thread jack.
you are doing nice work. I recently have gotten access to some 3D printers to mess around on, so I am quite interested in the work you are doing. what software are you using?

No worries, its great info! 

I am using Cura at the moment.  I downloaded that because it was recommended for Printrbot and it had pretty good support/forum info.  It has decent customization but i think the slicer was better with Makerbots software Makerware.  I tried to get one of my mates to look into writing a script to convert the exported g-code from Makerware to a format the Printrbot can read, but it never happened.

What printer to you have access to?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 09, 2015, 16:07:08
i have access to Objet printers (Eden, Prime, Objet30)  and a ZCORP 310. I have only used the Objet30 so far. cool stuff.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 10, 2015, 03:58:08
i have access to Objet printers (Eden, Prime, Objet30)  and a ZCORP 310. I have only used the Objet30 so far. cool stuff.

Wow cool.  They are more industrial printers right?  Using the SLS process?  I had access to an Objet at my job in Australia and it was awesome.  We ordered it because of its dimensional accuracy.  We just used the proprietary software that came with the printer and it was very user friendly and seemed to produce good prints.  I have a feeling that most of the free downloadable softwares out there are for the FDM process though... 

We also had a big water blaster enclosure to clean away the gel like support material.  Do you have something similar for that?

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 10, 2015, 04:37:38
I really don't know much about the printers yet, I haven't had the time or reason yet to use them, but i fully plan on getting into them in the future. From what i have seen, the objet30 has very good dimensional accuracy, and super easy to print, just drag and drop the file essentially. There is a water-jet booth, but apparently it doesn't work all that great.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 16, 2015, 07:29:10
Finally bought flights to go back and visit friends and family in Australia after 3 years living in Sweden.  Heading back in Feb.  Cant wait!  Will skip some of the worst weather here ;D

Already pondering what to do with an abandoned project I started a few months before I packed up and left...  As it is, it is on a pallet in a friends garage.  Do I try and finish it in the few weeks I am in Aus, then road register it and sell it?  Or, do I bundle it up the best I can and try and ship it to Sweden?  Selling it as is is not an option, a box of bits is pretty much worthless.  I would really like to finish it as I think it has a lot of potential. 

Anyone have experience with shipping a bike overseas?  Companies?  Costs?  Any suggestions greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Nov 16, 2015, 11:17:59
If it's on a pallet it might be cheapest to just ship it on the plane. but that is *highly* variable and works only for direct flights or one with one long stop over. How many direct flight from Oz to SWE?

The GF and I have thought about moving back to the UK from Canada and taking one of my bikes on the plane is the cheapest option. But that's a direct flight. We've also thought about flying to Peru with MY enduro and crossing the Atacama, again, plane is the only usable option.

Look into someone who is moving a container that isn't full.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: pjdave on Nov 17, 2015, 03:21:44
Its a dirty old SR 250, you can pick up a complete one for under a grand, not worth the money shipping. Sell it on the Melbourne cafe racers page on facebook, someone should be keen to find a frame with the loop already done and a bennelli tank.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 18, 2015, 03:05:46
Thanks for the ideas and thoughts.  I'll see how I feel when I look at it again in Aus :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Nov 18, 2015, 12:06:09
Its a dirty old SR 250, you can pick up a complete one for under a grand, not worth the money shipping. Sell it on the Melbourne cafe racers page on facebook, someone should be keen to find a frame with the loop already done and a bennelli tank.
Or just ship the tank as that is probably the most valuable piece and could be used on other bikes.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 21, 2015, 14:03:45
Sorry for the lack of updates recently!  I have been working more hours consulting (gotta get that money!) and spending a lot of time with Davids XS750.  He is coming to take photos of it this Friday (6 days time) and I still have a lot to do on it.  Right now I am trying to sort the electrical system - I already have about 20 hours invested in it (including making the battery box and various other mounting brackets) and there is always unexpected issues that come up.  It is so much harder to pull off the 'clean triangle' look than what one might expect.  Relocating the battery, starter relay, fuse box, reg/rec, flasher unit etc etc and making them 'unseen' has been a mission!  Also wiring up a nice Daytona idiot light display - but that was pretty straight forward.

I'll be back into the SR after this week.  Cant wait  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jjacks31 on Nov 21, 2015, 18:18:12
Just read this thread from start to finish and I am so glad I did! I just picked up a sr250 and have been having nightmares about the seat. I'm relatively mechanically inclined but you your prototyping is spot on! You can be sure I'm ordering one of your seats in the next couple of weeks (gotta get paid). I'm really interested in that rear frame loop you had made. Was it pricey getting it machined? It would be ideal for me not to have to do any major cutting or welding seeing as my 'garage' is my living room with hard wood floors.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11140297_10208295350245755_2692212773157642501_n.jpg?oh=d68266c2f84c3ea29ccbab783e054c15&oe=56AE5F94)

Is the design of your seat easily recoverable? Would be interested in finding a cobbler locally and maybe going with tanned leather or something along those lines. Keep up the amazing work!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 23, 2015, 04:35:11
I'm really interested in that rear frame loop you had made. Was it pricey getting it machined? It would be ideal for me not to have to do any major cutting or welding seeing as my 'garage' is my living room with hard wood floors.

Is the design of your seat easily recoverable? Would be interested in finding a cobbler locally and maybe going with tanned leather or something along those lines. Keep up the amazing work!

Cool man.  Looks like a fine sample sr you have there! 

With the rear frame loop, it worked out far too expensive to have it machined for production (which I suspected).  What I ended up doing is paying for some special tube bending tooling to be made to achieve the unique bend profile.  The tooling will be completed in early December and I will be getting off tool samples mid-late December.  So if you can wait till then...  you could be one of the first to try install one!  I have designed it so it is still a bolt on part so it would be totally possible to do in your living room  ;D

With the seat, I have had a few mails now with interest from people who want a different colour or finish.  So what I am thinking of doing is offering to sell the seat 'raw'.  That is, with the base, attachment fittings/hardware plus the moulded foam component (minus the upholstery).  The tooling is being finalised this week for both of those parts so will be testing the process next week.  But that would suit you too right?  Then you could get it covered however you like.  Its nice to support locals too!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Nov 23, 2015, 13:27:48
I went with a braced section between the shocks and no hoop. Added a motolanna sr500 seat along with a bolted on flat panel to house the taillight.

It's in my build thread in my sig.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jjacks31 on Nov 23, 2015, 15:26:25
Jadus that would be excellent! Please keep me informed about the frame loop and raw seat.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 26, 2015, 02:27:12
In between blasting and painting parts for the XS750 i quickly blasted up the SR carb to see what it would come up like.  A couple of photos with the masking on and then the masking off.  It came up pretty sweet.  A couple of blisters in the aluminium though which I am not sure what they are.  Cant be some kind of coating pealing off right?  Its not corrosion...  Could it just be from the original casting process?  I'll take the cap off at some point and powder coat it black I think, then replace the screws on it too.

Really looking forward to blasting the engine if the aluminium casings come up looking like this!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 30, 2015, 17:44:28
I made time today to blast the engine.  What a mission.  I built a 'blasting room' in my workshop with sealed walls and ventilation so I could take in larger items like bike frames and motorcycle frames and not be restricted by the size of a cabinet.  I have all the safety equipment, full overalls, gumboots, blasting hood (hangs past shoulders) with eye protection, hearing protection, respirator plus long thick rubber blasting gloves.  Somehow the grit still gets in my eyes even after purchasing some blasting 'goggles' - after learning from the first try that stuff comes into the hood.  It must come in through the tiny an-fog vents some how.  What a dirty, dirty job.  I have much respect for the guys that do this day in and day out.

Now I have decided to tear down the 'room' and build my own oversized cabinet to my specs.  I cant be arsed with this mess and I dont want to have to go into the eye clinic again and have them scrape stuff off my corneas! haha

Anyway...  Engine came up pretty much as hoped  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 30, 2015, 17:45:34
Oh yeah, I finished the XS750 too, so hopefully now will be able to spend more time with this!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sincerelyadam on Dec 01, 2015, 08:22:33
The engine looks great. What media did you use? Did you do any prep to the engine besides plugging holes, or just straight from frame to blast?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 01, 2015, 13:05:19
The engine looks great. What media did you use? Did you do any prep to the engine besides plugging holes, or just straight from frame to blast?

Thanks man.  The media was glass beads, 0.1-0.25mm grit.  No, no other preparation really.  Of coarse the oil was drained.  But with the masking, I made sure everything was either bolted down with a bracket and gasket, or blast masking tape on small things.  I made one mistake with the oil sight level - the masking was not strong enough and I accidentally blasted that window a tiny bit.  I am hoping I can polish it out.  You can still see, but it doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sincerelyadam on Dec 02, 2015, 08:29:53
*thumbs up* and thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 07, 2015, 14:45:10
Just a note to anyone wanting to blast their engine... take particular care with masking the alternator side cover.  The blasting media likes to go everywhere you dont want it to go  ;)  Luckily, I had taken the cover off and masked the flywheel and pick up separately, then bolted the cover down over that, then stuffed rags up under the opening for the wires.  When I was taking the cover off, rather than blowing it with compressed air, I got in at it with the shop vac and that seemed to pick up most of the grit.  Happy days  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 07, 2015, 14:49:27
Had some time to do some more blasting and painting today.  Most parts I was able to powder coat.  But with the starter motor, not only did I not want to blast it, I didn't want to powdercoat it either - cant be good for it to bake it at 200C right?  So I hand sanded that and spray painted it instead.  Came up looking alrite!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 07, 2015, 14:54:39
Got another one of them stuck crankcase bolts!  Even with the impact driver it stripped the philips socket.  But this time my standard solution worked - cut a slot in the head of the bolt with the die grinder using a thin cutting off disc.  Then just use the big flat blade bit on the impact driver.  Yus!

Also started installing the covers with new gaskets  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 07, 2015, 15:11:52
Got another one of them stuck crankcase bolts!  Even with the impact driver it stripped the philips socket.  But this time my standard solution worked - cut a slot in the head of the bolt with the die grinder using a thin cutting off disc.  Then just use the big flat blade bit on the impact driver.  Yus!

Also started installing the covers with new gaskets  :D

Are you using a JIS phillips driver? you only get partial engagement with a standard phillips driver in a JIS screw.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on Dec 07, 2015, 16:37:24
Are you using a JIS phillips driver? you only get partial engagement with a standard phillips driver in a JIS screw.

   Good Post, thanks.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 07, 2015, 17:03:31
Are you using a JIS phillips driver? you only get partial engagement with a standard phillips driver in a JIS screw.

Yeah awesome post!  I didn't know about that at all.  Just thought there were deep/pointy philips and shallower/fatter philips!  But yeah, in that case, been using the JIS bit with the impact driver set.  It seemed to fill the whole head screw head well.  Despite this, it still seems that the heads of some of these screws are really soft - and haven't been touched for 30 something years  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 08, 2015, 03:04:22
Unless you specifically bought a JIS driver for your impact i would be surprised if it was JIS, it likely is a #3 standard phillips. Thats what my impact driver came with anyway. I didn't realize the Japanese had their own screw standard until a couple years ago after 15+ years of stripping screws on cars and bikes. They really do make a big difference. positive engagement. I had to special order a set of drivers because nobody sold them locally. They are not only shorter, but their footprint(?) is different.  but the yeah the stock screws suck anyway, it just makes replacing them a lot easier with the right tool. The standard phillips is designed to cam out when overtightened.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 09, 2015, 03:52:24
Unless you specifically bought a JIS driver for your impact i would be surprised if it was JIS, it likely is a #3 standard phillips. Thats what my impact driver came with anyway. I didn't realize the Japanese had their own screw standard until a couple years ago after 15+ years of stripping screws on cars and bikes. They really do make a big difference. positive engagement. I had to special order a set of drivers because nobody sold them locally. They are not only shorter, but their footprint(?) is different.  but the yeah the stock screws suck anyway, it just makes replacing them a lot easier with the right tool. The standard phillips is designed to cam out when overtightened.

You were right again.  I just alternate between the No2 and No3 bits (as shown in the pic) depending on the size of the screw head.  Although, looking at the stock screws, would you say they are JIS?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 09, 2015, 04:04:03
I decided to install the nipple for the oil temp/oil pressure sensor on the engine I am working on.  This will save me having to swap between crankcase covers when doing the testing (cos I did this to the spare I had a swell).  Once the testing phase is over, I will just blank it off with an NPT blanking plug - I have seen some nice ones on ebay :)

I was real careful when removing the aluminium plug and when drilling and tapping the hole not to get any filings into the oil galley.  I stuffed a piece of aluminium covered in a clean rag into the slot as a stop for the bits.  Seems to work well.  Then vacuumed everything out with the shop vac and cleaned everywhere else with clean rags on the ends of spokes.  Came up good enough.  Anyone know if plumbers tape can be/is supposed to be use with oil line fittings?  I presume so to form a seal, but does it hold up to the temps?  Personally I have only used it to seal airlines in the past...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 09, 2015, 10:56:40
You were right again.  I just alternate between the No2 and No3 bits (as shown in the pic) depending on the size of the screw head.  Although, looking at the stock screws, would you say they are JIS?

Hmmm well they do appear to be rounded on the corners like a regular phillips but if they are stock screws they most certainly are JIS as any screw made in Japan will be. One way to identify a JIS screw is a little dimple on the head. Although this is not always present, just like how grade 8 bolts are not always marked correctly.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Dec 09, 2015, 11:04:44
Grind 1/16th of an inch off of the tip of any #2 or #3 phillips. There's your JIS drivers.

I've used a standard #3 phillips approximately 247,961 times on the fasteners shown above and only the worst of the worst, bolts that should be replaced anyway, have ever given me issues.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Dec 09, 2015, 12:29:22
Grind 1/16th of an inch off of the tip of any #2 or #3 phillips. There's your JIS drivers.
+1 . . . not perfect, but gets you most of the way there, not so much on the #3 though - couple of taps with a hammer and you have a pretty good fit usually.  One thing a lot of people don't seem to realize is that the most important part of working with these things is the capability of the operator.  Simplistic as it sounds, when you use any screwdriver type tool, you have to split your effort into three separate areas.  Pushing the driver towards the fastener to keep the bit engaged and rotating it to drive it in or take it out.  More importantly, you have to grip the handle to accomplish both.  And that is where the trouble is.  When you have to put maximum effort into removing a screw, you divide up what strength you have among the three tasks.  The tighter the screw, the tighter you have to grip the driver leaving less power available to turn and push in.  Fix the grip problem with a piece of sticky back sandpaper like body shops use on a dual action sander.  Wrap a piece around your driver handle and the high traction the sandpaper gives to your hand enables you to put greatly increased effort to pushing and turning.  This is an old trick, and may sound lame, but it is unbelievably effective!

These guyshttp://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/screwdriver-sets/view-all-products.html (http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/screwdriver-sets/view-all-products.html) make pretty nice JIS drivers, and they have impact bits as well.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Dec 09, 2015, 12:56:28
Lately I have relied on the newer Milwaukee M12 drill driver: with adjustable clutch and a jiz tip... If you start out at a lower setting unable to damage the fastener and just rattle it a while, then turn up the heat they seem to come loose almost effortlessly.

I do keep the cordless Dremel loaded up whith a cutting wheel to make a slot when the time comes though.

(http://professional-power-tool-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/milwaukee-m12-drill.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Dec 09, 2015, 13:07:11
That's not bad - $10.16 for a set of replacement JIS impact driver bits from Vessel Tools!
Another trick (instead of the sand paper) is to use grip tape used for baseball bats or tennis rackets.
The Milwaukee M12 1/4" impact driver would be a better tool in this case than the drill/driver due to the higher instantaneous torque. FWIW most construction pros have switched to an impact driver to drive wood screws too, for the same reasons. I also have a (very well abused) M12 drill/driver and it has been VERY impressive in its operation - no floppy chuck bearings or loose motor brake.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Dec 09, 2015, 13:33:26
I have the 1/4 impact also and use it even more, just not on stubborn JIS metrics, that "little" impact will suck the grippers right out of those soft screws in a jiffy  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 10, 2015, 04:17:34
Hmmm well they do appear to be rounded on the corners like a regular phillips but if they are stock screws they most certainly are JIS as any screw made in Japan will be. One way to identify a JIS screw is a little dimple on the head. Although this is not always present, just like how grade 8 bolts are not always marked correctly.

Aha, always wondered what the dot stamped on the heads of the screws meant!  Just thought it was an OEM thing.  The more you know!

Grind 1/16th of an inch off of the tip of any #2 or #3 phillips. There's your JIS drivers.

Yep, done that too and it worked well enough.  Although I will be looking for a set of JIS bits if I am going to be doing more work on these engines  which is a hopefully ;)

One thing a lot of people don't seem to realize is that the most important part of working with these things is the capability of the operator. 

Technique goes a long way yes.  For me, it is one thing to be taught something and it is another to try, fail and learn yourself - the best way for your particular capabilities/dexterity haha

Lately I have relied on the newer Milwaukee M12 drill driver: with adjustable clutch and a jiz tip... If you start out at a lower setting unable to damage the fastener and just rattle it a while, then turn up the heat they seem to come loose almost effortlessly.

I do keep the cordless Dremel loaded up with a cutting wheel to make a slot when the time comes though.

(http://professional-power-tool-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/milwaukee-m12-drill.jpg)

Awesome tip.  I need to invest in one of those.  It will be especially useful for getting those stubborn fork/damper rod retaining bolts at the bottom of the fork legs!

Yep, the slot in the screw head has saved me many times!

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 10, 2015, 05:27:51
Snapped a couple of pics comparing the stock header to the header I designed.  As you can see, a large difference. 

A couple notes about the header...  I ran 3 different exhaust header calculators to some up with the dimensions I went with.  There was only one compromise, and that was the diameter.  The internal diameter of the header is 31.4mm which puts peak power at 7500rpm with an ideal  length of 590mm.  To bring the power lower in the rpm range (say to 5000 - perhaps better for the street), the internal diameter would ideally be between 29-30mm with a length of 686mm.  This would mean using 32mm/1-1/4'' (outside diameter) tubing.  To me, this size tubing looks pathetic - just look at the stock Honda Transalp xl600v header.  Looks lame (to me  ;) ).  So I decided to go up one size in tubing to 34mm/1-3/8'' tubing (outside diameter) for better looks and made the pipe longer (800mm) to compensate (longer for more torgue) - bringing the power back down to around 6000rpm.  Of coarse the chosen silencer will play a role as well but these calculations were done with consideration to the header alone.

So, final dimension comparison:

Stock internal diameter:  26mm
Jadus internal diameter:  31.4mm

Stock length:  670mm
Jadus length:  800mm

There is also the idea that customers can cut down the size of the header pipe depending on their tastes and chosen silencer.  The header comes with a split tube reducer to go over the end of the header and bring the diameter up to 38mm allowing the fitment of a wider range of silencers (using the usual reducers that come with them).

One more thing...  Using tubing any thicker/larger in diameter would be for looks only (according to the calculations) - which would include any attempt to cut out the internal pipe on the stock header and just run the outer.  This would be fruitless, unless you wanted the power to be strong from 9000 - 10000rpm, just outside of the SRs redline/capabilities.

Just to get a second opinion I contacted the guys at Poweroll and they backed up my ideas - they suggested that for a 250cc engine putting out 20-25hp, a header pipe with 1-3/8'' tubing and a length of 31'' would be ideal - which is 34mm outside diameter and 787mm length - not far off the pipe I designed  ;D

All this information could of coarse be completely useless unless properly backed up!!!  Haha.  When the bike is done, I will get some prices from a couple local shops with dynos and do some proper testing.  I just ordered 20 genuine Mikuni jets for the carb for this testing purpose as I hope to give customers/anyone with an SR a good jetting baseline for a few different airfilter and header combinations.  While at the dyno, I will do the temperature tests with the valve covers and the oil filter cover too.

Btw, anyone ever dynoed an SR250 or heard of anyone doing it?  Plenty of videos on youtube of SR400s and 500s on dynoes but no 250s.  Guess its never been worth it to anyone haha.  I suspect the claimed 17-20hp (different models) would have been from the engine and not the wheel, meaning maybe 12-15hp at the rear wheel... We'll see  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 10, 2015, 18:11:49
I found it!  I thought I saw it somewhere...  In one of the many articles I scanned I found a tester that actually put it on the dyno.  It was tested by Stewart Car Company in Miranda, Sydney with Sun dynamometers (dont know if that is a company or a brand of dyno?) in 1981.  The atmospheric correction factor was plus 0.9%.  The max peak rear wheel power was 9.8kW - which is a tad over 13hp.  So there you have it!  See attached for yourself  ;D Anyone else though?  Thinking it might be a stretch to get the claimed 20hp now!

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 12, 2015, 13:34:20
Been experimenting with the seat base prototype tooling a bit but have moved onto the real tooling to get better results.  The prototype tooling proved out the concept anyway.  Now I have made one 'prototype' seat base to send to a customer in Thailand.  He insisted he would sort the foam and the cover and I dont doubt it - imagine the tailor talent there.  Looking forward to seeing what he does with it  :D

The metal parts for mounting were made by hand and included M6 riv-nuts in the plate at the rear.  In production these parts will be laser cut and bent up on a proper press brake in a proper machine shop haha.  I think I will specify ally weld nuts too instead of rivnuts or pem nuts.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 13, 2015, 07:23:21
Just got sent some rad photos from a customer in Belgium - legend for sharing them with me.  He was actually first out the gate to purchase a header  8)  His freshly rebuilt and painted engine looks amazing.  Then the header looks pretty clean too!  Imho
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 16, 2015, 07:28:23
Go these in the mail today!  Nice selection of genuine Mikuni jets for testing  :)  There are main jets, pilots and air jets.

I searched high and low to find a couple different variations of the needle jet and the jet needle as well but had no luck.  Seems like with a lot of these factory standard Mikuni carbs, these jets were made especially.  So what I am hoping is that the mid range will have enough adjustment in it on the spacing of the needle alone - raising it slightly each time to get the setting right.  The needle on these carbs is a constant (single) taper anyway, so it would make sense that the more you raise or lower it, the more of less fuel you get.  Would make things harder if it was a dual or triple taper needle!

Also, from all the searching I did, I found these guys (motocarb.co.uk) in the UK were the easiest to deal with, had the easiest to understand, extensive catalogue and pretty reasonable prices.  I am sure there are good dealers like this on other continents too but this was good shipping for me and nice to be able to order in English rather than Swedish ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 18, 2015, 05:57:06
Postman came again :)

Love ordering parts from boats.net

Always have the parts, easy to follow explodeds and good shipping.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 18, 2015, 05:59:20
Slow progress with the engine...  I started trying to mask everything up to be able to spray paint the barrel/jug but quickly realised how much of a nightmare it would be to get at all the surfaces.  I would end up with such an uneven coat of paint - with build up on the edges of the fins and no paint between them almost.  So I decided to buy some artist paint brushes and hand paint it!  Two coats later...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 24, 2015, 07:43:41
Not so much progress on the bike lately, but progress on the powder coating oven!  I enlisted the help of a buddy who has a bit more experience with stuff like this and hes been doing a tidy job of it so far.  The insulation will be covered in thick aluminium foil then the elements (all of them) installed from a wrecked oven.  I just hope it will be able to bring the internal temp up to 200c.  This will allow me to powder coat an entire frame and other large parts that dont fit in the normal oven I have.  I am hoping to do a few bike frames on the side too.  The single speed craze is world over now right?  Was huge in Melbourne already like 5 years ago!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 24, 2015, 07:46:12
Also got one more prototype seat base off the moulds.  This is the last of the fibre glass and resin supplies I have so I hope the real tooling will be done on time - late Jan.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Weldangrind on Dec 24, 2015, 12:33:40
Did you repurpose an existing metal cabinet for your powder coating oven?  If so, that's brilliant!  I'm looking forward to reading about how it works for you.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Dec 24, 2015, 13:33:09
Not so much progress on the bike lately, but progress on the powder coating oven!  I enlisted the help of a buddy who has a bit more experience with stuff like this and hes been doing a tidy job of it so far.  The insulation will be covered in thick aluminium foil then the elements (all of them) installed from a wrecked oven.  I just hope it will be able to bring the internal temp up to 200c.  This will allow me to powder coat an entire frame and other large parts that dont fit in the normal oven I have.  I am hoping to do a few bike frames on the side too.  The single speed craze is world over now right?  Was huge in Melbourne already like 5 years ago!
  What kind of elements are you using?  Element resistance is hugely important to how well they work.  Four major factors must be considered- voltage/amps/oven size/insulation thickness.  There is a spray coating used in ceramic kilns called ITC.  It's a highly reflective refractory material. It may be much more than you need, but it serves to protect the insulation as well.  FYI, they make a lung soluble insulation that is much much safer to use.   You can also use fiber board instead of blanket. Fiber board comes in various thicknesses.  I hope you're wearing at least a P95 respirator while you mess with that glass.  Since your temps are so low, and since your using blanket, make a bunch of 2" metal buttons out of sheet metal.  Cut circles and drill two holes in the center.  Then, drill holes in the exterior of the box and "sew" the buttons running through the insulation with electric fence wire.  The buttons will hold the blanket up and allow the oven to last much much longer.  Get rid of the chicken wire for the top.  Use buttons instead.  Another way to do the roof insulation is to cut 3" wide strips with a length equal to the depth of your box, put two holes in each one in the same place, then stack them like a wood cutting board and run allthread through them all to compress them and make a board.  Drill two holes in each side of the box to run the allthread through to mount to the roof.  Get yourself (4) 4-inch muffin fans:

(http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m-lcSqjxZMHPXT818Ccv2ug.jpg)

and use them to exhaust through the top.  I've also done them 2 on each side near the top of the box.  You want a dry environment, so the fan/heat combo will act as a de-humidifier.  I've built dry boxes the same size that maintain 200° with just one electric floorboard heater.  No need for trying to reuse oven elements.  If you do use the oven elements, and they are the coil type, DO NOT STRETCH THE COILS.  The outer dimension and the gap between coils, plus the overall length are all factors in how they heat.  Any stretch raises resistance and reduces their heating qualities.  You'll also want to get a rheostat to control your heat.  A rheostat varies voltage/resistance to the elements.  Another reason to get a floorboard heater is that they already come with one built in.  The truth is, 8 incandescent flood lamps will probably get you to your temp of 200°.  I bet 800 - 1000 watts will get you to 200°.  A standard dimmer switch can control your temp.

 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 25, 2015, 06:11:29
Did you repurpose an existing metal cabinet for your powder coating oven?  If so, that's brilliant!  I'm looking forward to reading about how it works for you.

Hi, yeah its an old cabinet.  I have no idea what its use was but i was looking for something this size for quite some time.  It was bolted together too so I was able to dismantle it and get it through my small workshop doors.  Its also pretty sturdy being made of a good guage of steel.

I got my inspiration and a lot of good info from the user r.s.hutchinson.  You can read his build thread here:

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=64461.0

He got some really nice results  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 25, 2015, 06:18:15
  What kind of elements are you using?  Element resistance is hugely important to how well they work. 

My mate has got this all covered.  He knows a damn sight more than me about it.  When we took the elements from the old oven, they are electrolux units (solid, not coil) and they are stamped with their resistance on them.  So we calculated exactly what their power requirements were and we will wire in all of them - the main oven ones plus the grill ones which had highest resistance - giving highest heat.  Its all 3-phase too to be able to deliver that kind of power.  We skipped the warmer drawer ones though as they are not grunty enough.

Yep, me and him always wear respirators when working with this shit.  Thanks for your concern.  We also use overalls and kitchen gloves too - this shit is a skin irritant as well.  Thats the reason I want to cover it with foil as well - so there will be no dust and no irritant exposed.  Good idea with the straps/buttons though, will definitely do that.  Is there any reason to take the chicken wire away though???  That will cope with the 200 degrees wont it?

Excuse my ignorance, but what are the extraction fans for?  Wouldn't we just loose all the heat in the oven?  I thought it needs to be sealed tight?

We are following what r.s.hutchinson did and he seemed to get great results with his oven - with no extraction.

Cheers
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Dec 25, 2015, 08:24:49
Extraction is to keep the humidity out. If that's no concern, then of course no worries. I like to have a wrap on the environment in the unit. Plus, the venting deals with any fuming.
The chicken wire will handle the heat just fine. You already have the rods up there. They could've been used to make the ceiling.
I'm a master kiln builder, so I get a bit excited about this stuff.  I've built quite a few of the type ovens for clients as well. I'll check out that guy's thread too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Dec 25, 2015, 08:51:16
It is called convection. The parts will cure better and faster with moving air.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Dec 25, 2015, 08:59:23
That and even heat distribution of heat top to bottom.  In kiln ventilation, the air is drawn from the bottom.  So as heat naturally rises, the ventilation draws it back down through the wares.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: r.s.hutchinson on Dec 26, 2015, 20:48:26
Coming along nicely.

What gun are you using for blasting?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 27, 2015, 07:29:16
Extraction is to keep the humidity out. If that's no concern, then of course no worries. I like to have a wrap on the environment in the unit. Plus, the venting deals with any fuming.
The chicken wire will handle the heat just fine. You already have the rods up there. They could've been used to make the ceiling.
I'm a master kiln builder, so I get a bit excited about this stuff.  I've built quite a few of the type ovens for clients as well. I'll check out that guy's thread too.

Thanks for the info.  Geeze, you'd be a handy guy to know if you were local! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 27, 2015, 07:31:49
Coming along nicely.

What gun are you using for blasting?

Cheers.  It is a combined soda and media blasting unit with two pressure pots.  I bought it from a company in Sweden called Verktygsboden but I have seen the exact same system (but in blue colour rather than red) for sale from Harbour Freight :)  Seems like these companies all have the same suppliers, just rebrand the stuff (real common these days anyways).

You didn't have any issues with ventilation or humidity with your set up did you?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 29, 2015, 05:11:42
Yesterday I received the fist off-tool sample of the rear frame loop kit I designed  ;D Looking really good!  The dimples in the metal tubing from the bending process are only visible on the insides of the radii, so the outside is perfectly smooth.  The lugs came up good too.

The idea is that the customer can cut this to their preferred length, drill a couple 6.5mm holes in both the frame and the loop and screw it together.  This would be for a cosmetic solution.  If it was a frame bracing solution/load bearing/stressed, the lugs would be used as locators for welding it all together.  The brace welded to the loop is for attaching fenders, tail light brackets, indicator brackets, batteries, different seats, etc etc.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 29, 2015, 05:20:47
Test install... 

Didn't have the latest seat design on hand so used the end of the last prototype before tooling.  Fits good! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Dec 29, 2015, 10:38:22
If you get (or make) a drilling template, you're guaranteed to line your holes up and not have to dig away with a burr bit to get to your threaded hole in the bung. 

(https://www.s3i.co.uk/image/s3i/drill-template-0718.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: r.s.hutchinson on Dec 29, 2015, 20:01:29

You didn't have any issues with ventilation or humidity with your set up did you?

Nope, everything came out great. Ventilation would be easy to add and would create convection as well.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 30, 2015, 05:44:40
If you get (or make) a drilling template, you're guaranteed to line your holes up and not have to dig away with a burr bit to get to your threaded hole in the bung. 

Haha, you noticed my terrible drilling skills!  Yep, had to hog it out a little with the dremel to get it to line up.  That drill jig is sweet!  Would definitely help me with other stuff too.  I was hoping though that customers could install this kit on their own with simple tools - a hole punch and a cordless drill perhaps...  And some caution and patience ;)  Even if the holes are a little oversize, once the bolts are tightened with a locking/spring washer they hold everything together real nice  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 30, 2015, 05:46:06
Nope, everything came out great. Ventilation would be easy to add and would create convection as well.

Sweet.  Yeah, like these other guys have said, a small fan could be added easily enough.  I'll see what the results are like without it first.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 03, 2016, 10:59:14
Something I have been working on over the Xmas/New Year break - an SR specific intake trumpet/bellmouth or whatever you want to call it.  I have read a lot, and it also seems logical, that running a carb with a pod/clamp on filter is detrimental to airflow.  Many of you may be thinking 'duh, no sh*t'!  But it still surprises me how common it is for people to just trash their factory air boxes and run clamp on filters thinking its going to remove restrictions and let loose some extra horses!  Lol.  I shouldn't laugh, I have done it too!  But its fun to learn  ;D  Doing it just for looks, well thats another thing entirely  ;)

Somethings I have learned working with bikes is that I am not, and will never be smarter than the team of designers/engineers that put together any particular bike/engine package.  The only thing you can beat them on is the cost/time restrictions they had in front of them when they were working on the project.  I.e. you can spend more time and money on small areas of the engine and get small improvements where they were out of time or budget - their solutions were the best economical and performance compromise.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 03, 2016, 11:14:11
That was a rant sorry!

I was influenced a lot by two articles in particular, and a couple of images when I decided to do something for the SRs BS34 carb.  I'll dig them up and attach them next.

In the meantime, here are a few (some stupid) prototypes I made before coming to a final design that I will have machined up in aluminum for dyno testing.  For packaging reasons, this is only intended to improve the flow of air into the carb (perhaps up to 5% more), rather than try for any harmonic tuning.  One of the prototypes in the picture would get the 2nd harmonic in the 6,900 - 8,000 rpm range, the third in the 5,200 - 5,900 rpm range and the 4th in the 4,000 - 4,500 rpm range.  But look at it!  It would be ridiculous haha. 

I used some ideas from A-class automotive surfacing and curvature to achieve the smoothest entrance possible within a reasonable size - see screenshots from the solidworks files using various surface analysis tools - curvature combs, curvature display and zebra stripes.  The idea is that the bellmouth bolts onto the carb with two M4 set screws behind two flanges on the carb.  There is also a large flat surface on the outside of the part just past the radius to be able to squeeze a clamp-on air filter over the top of it and clamp it tight.  I personally would never run an open carb/velocity stack on the street, or metal mesh for that matter.  This will be clearer when I get the proper proto.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 03, 2016, 11:22:10
Again, I have no idea if this will work or help, but I figure its gotta be better than an open carb - just look at some of the details from the stock SR set up - as said, the engineers are not stupid - notice the curved/radiusd mouth on both the carb-airbox intake boot and the airbox - atmosphere boot.  Plus, if one wants to run the pod filter 'look' then performance shouldn't have to suffer.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jan 03, 2016, 11:23:51
I think what happens with pods is that too much air becomes a problem, you can change jetting and mix ratios all day, but if the venturi(s) are just too large for the pump you will never tune your way out.

Someone needs to make a set of foam filtered velocity stacks that have an ability to squish the venturi at both ends, then you can run clamp on filters, but still need shielding from cross flow air like wind or even deflection from your legs so you wind up with an air box... almost and in some instances the vacuum and air box provides is needed like in CV carbs but those are another set of rules all together.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 03, 2016, 11:33:09
Those images/articles I mentioned I had as inspiration/influence...

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104a.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104b.htm

http://www.profblairandassociates.com/pdfs/RET_Bellmouth_Sept.pdf

This led to the final design I have which has an elliptical intake curve leading (with G2 curvature) into a 6mm (1/4'' ~) full 270° radius.  Hope it fecken does something! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 03, 2016, 11:53:51
I think what happens with pods is that too much air becomes a problem, you can change jetting and mix ratios all day, but if the venturi(s) are just too large for the pump you will never tune your way out.

Someone needs to make a set of foam filtered velocity stacks that have an ability to squish the venturi at both ends, then you can run clamp on filters, but still need shielding from cross flow air like wind or even deflection from your legs so you wind up with an air box... almost and in some instances the vacuum and air box provides is needed like in CV carbs but those are another set of rules all together.

Yeah I had a feeling the open carb made things harder to get the jetting right.  Thats what that article about the MG said too - that it cleaned up the throttle.  I can only imagine that this would make the fuel metering slightly easier/smoother - ie. easier to get the jetting right.  This guy said the same thing about adding a velocity stack to his SR500 on the dyno:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUupiGwjBdw

Not 100% sure what you mean about a velocity stack with a venturi at both ends?  I know Harley guys have discussed the effects of cross winds on velocity stacks a lot and how detrimental they can be.  Thats why some choose the double stack if I'm right.  I am hoping with the carb behind the engine in this case, it will not be as much of an issue?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Jan 03, 2016, 11:55:21
I think what happens with pods is that too much air becomes a problem
Too much air is not the problem. Velocity is the problem. Even with 'good' pods. The only correct application of pod intakes is on a race bike that will be up in the rpms the majority of the time. It's almost like, science or something.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 03, 2016, 12:07:26
One way to demonstrate this is to take a straw, cut the each end at an angle and tape it to an air gun so one end is in the air path and the other can be placed in a cup of water. 

(https://woodgears.ca/physics/simple_gun.jpg)

Shoot away playing with air pressure to see how it affects the atomization of the water.  The same concept makes a paint sprayer work and many other applications.  The volume of air through gun remains the same, but the velocity changes with air pressure.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jan 03, 2016, 12:16:53
One way to demonstrate this is to take a straw, cut the each end at an angle and tape it to an air gun so one end is in the air path and the other can be placed in a cup of water. 

(https://woodgears.ca/physics/simple_gun.jpg)

Shoot away playing with air pressure to see how it affects the atomization of the water.  The same concept makes a paint sprayer work and many other applications.  The volume of air through gun remains the same, but the velocity changes with air pressure.

That mang is a sweet way to make a makeshift bedliner sprayer  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 04, 2016, 02:50:28
a member over at KZRider.com played around with several iterations for these velocity stacks with filters over them he ended up having them made in delrin. He claimed to have gotten them dialed in pretty good. I picked up a set myself to try. here is the thread if you are interested...
kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/408059-ve...thbores?limitstart=0

I think the important take away from that thread is that carbs that are set up for more performance will invariably have to make compromises with "streetability"

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 04, 2016, 06:24:12
a member over at KZRider.com played around with several iterations for these velocity stacks with filters over them he ended up having them made in delrin. He claimed to have gotten them dialed in pretty good. I picked up a set myself to try. here is the thread if you are interested...
kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/408059-ve...thbores?limitstart=0

I think the important take away from that thread is that carbs that are set up for more performance will invariably have to make compromises with "streetability"

That is outstanding!  Exactly the kind of info I needed to read.  Looks like he solved all the issues really nicely for that carb set up.  I think there is a need for more 'in-filter-velocity-stacks' for bikes.  They're quite common on cars.  I saw a really nice solution some guy had come up with over on the SR500 forum, but it was quite customized:  http://www.sr500forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11792&p=81059

Yeah I think whenever running this type of setup you will loose some bottom end, unless of coarse you go for a really long intake trumpet!

Check out this sweet, very practical article:  http://www.emeraldm3d.com/articles/emr-adj-length-intake/

So depending on packaging, you could potentially make a tractor of a screamer according to those guys  ;D  Anyone got room on their bike for a 300mm intake trumpet?  Haha
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 04, 2016, 06:34:46
This was also an amazing read!  Learnt a hell of a lot reading through all the mods to this engine:

http://www.sr500forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10452

http://www.sr500forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8458

Dont know why there are two threads, seems like the same build but one thread has double the pages...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jan 04, 2016, 11:43:26
"I think the important take away from that thread is that carbs that are set up for more performance will invariably have to make compromises with 'streetability'"

"Yeah I think whenever running this type of setup you will loose some bottom end, unless of coarse you go for a really long intake trumpet!"

I guess it depends on your definition of "performance". If you are talking about increasing average lap times at a track, that is one thing. If you are talking about riding on secondary public roads (these are 250cc bikes after all), then that is another. I think that riding on secondary public roads (which all have speed limits that we should be observing so as not to portray ourselves as adolescent squid riders) demands more low-rpm torque than high-end rpms (which govern hp). Torque is what gets you started from a stop and gives you roll-on power to modulate speed in a turn. If the engine mod does not increases low-end torque, I would argue that it is NOT enhancing performance for riding on public roads. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 04, 2016, 13:14:03
I think there is a need for more 'in-filter-velocity-stacks' for bikes.  They're quite common on cars. 
  They're quite common on motorcycles, too.  Open up a Honda airbox and you find rubber velocity stacks connecting the box to the mouth of the carb.

(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/CQcAAOSwZ1lWgLlh/s-l225.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jan 04, 2016, 13:23:57
  They're quite common on motorcycles, too.  Open up a Honda airbox and you find rubber velocity stacks connecting the box to the mouth of the carb.

(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/CQcAAOSwZ1lWgLlh/s-l225.jpg)

I pulled mine out and boiled them in water then soaked them while hot in linseed oil to soften and it worked great, Just need to commit to cutting open the UNI's and fit them... may need a larger filter to start with.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Jan 04, 2016, 14:29:14
Over analyzing. This stuff is not new or difficult to understand. What we need is not more bikes with filtered velocity stacks, but instead we need less people removing them. Redesign your airbox for cosmetic reasons but don't expect to consistently gain performance over any stock setup. Trust me they wanted their bikes to be as fast and reliable as possible because otherwise they wouldn't take their share of the market.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jan 04, 2016, 15:26:26
^ like!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jan 04, 2016, 15:35:50
Over analyzing. This stuff is not new or difficult to understand. What we need is not more bikes with filtered velocity stacks, but instead we need less people removing them. Redesign your airbox for cosmetic reasons but don't expect to consistently gain performance over any stock setup. Trust me they wanted their bikes to be as fast and reliable as possible because otherwise they wouldn't take their share of the market.

I get it, the cover of Cycle World meant more than anything and I remember reading old articles where the setup from road to track meant major changes. What I strive for is a little of both worlds and to just stop trying would mean a slow death on the couch no? We also know in the early 70's everything was under the all new EPA and smog rules so these bikes were indeed made to squeeze all they could from what they were allowed to burn.

Is the air box really that ugly? No but it's not simple and certainly not sexy  :o
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 04, 2016, 19:32:14
Over analyzing. This stuff is not new or difficult to understand. What we need is not more bikes with filtered velocity stacks, but instead we need less people removing them. Redesign your airbox for cosmetic reasons but don't expect to consistently gain performance over any stock setup. Trust me they wanted their bikes to be as fast and reliable as possible because otherwise they wouldn't take their share of the market.

This is true to an extent but a bit oversimplified IMHO. If your engine is stock than I would generally agree with you, pods and stacks aren't going to benefit you. What about an engine that has been overbored, increased compression, port and polish, and bigger cams? surely the intake demands have changed so it doesn't make sense to use the stock one.

Speed and reliability were/are the focus of some manufacturers on certain bikes but there are many other factors that play a significant a role in engine design. Smooth throttle response, EPA restrictions, noise limit restrictions, and gas consumption are all things the manufacturers also consider. If you are modding a bike to go faster It stands to reason you don't give a shit about most of those, with an exception to throttle response and perhaps reliability, you don't need to compromise as much.

For example my Aprilia has a aftermarket exhaust and has been chipped. The throttle is kinda twitchy under 2500 now, but I don't care because I don't do much city riding on it and rarely let it dip below 3000 anyway, The performance gains were very noticeable, low and midrange got a huge boost. The cons are my gas mileage dropped, throttle response is not as good in the extreme low end, and it is a loud SOB now. Those are all deal breakers for manufacturers, but inconsequential to me.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 06, 2016, 13:13:44
Good discussion.  Time for some further reading...  Just got this in the mail today :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 06, 2016, 13:21:43
Total fluke, but I literally opened the book and turned to this page.  Clearly shows how much flow is gained over a stock set up with an intake trumpet.  No comment on air velocity however.  I understand this is for high performance engines operating near the top of their rpm ceiling, but it is always nice to see some concrete numbers.

I think in most cases, like Zap and DohcBikes say, it is better to leave the stock set up alone.  But like tune-a-fish says, the stock set up is far from sexy.  So if it has to go (because the stock SR set up IS butt ugly), why not replace it with a proper filtered intake trumpet rather than just a clamp on filter - you might get back some of the power lost and maybe even (with a wish and a prayer) even get a small gain (up top only) ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 06, 2016, 13:34:56
The problem is the bottom end can be downright awful.  Ever put too big of a power valve on a Holley carb or run the wrong size squirters?  Hit the gas and watch it stall.  Or if it does take off, it has an awful flat spot and shows little power until you jump up above 4000 rpm.  What's the point in building a motor with torque, if you have no way to use it?  I for one am not interested in having a moped beat me off the line or out run me to the next light. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jan 06, 2016, 13:37:49
So if it has to go (because the stock SR set up IS butt ugly), why not replace it with a proper filtered intake trumpet rather than just a clamp on filter - you might get back some of the power lost and maybe even (with a wish and a prayer) even get a small gain (up top only) ;)
This has actually been accomplished by others I've seen (mostly on forums of 4-cyl bikes) where the OEM air box has been damaged beyond repair or removed by the PO and is NLA. Solutions have ranged from re-using the OEM velocity stacks/connecting boots that were in the original air box or adapting PVC piping from the carb intakes to good-quality individual aftermarket filters (like K&N) or to a home-brew plenum constructed from even larger diameter PVC pipe and a single filter. But the bottom line has been that you cannot accomplish the same "cafe racer tabloid look" (AKA empty frame triangle) without a decrease in performance (in the area that the bike will really be used) and a lot of work to even get it drivable in the upper range.
Maybe a future project to do a 3-D printed air box that looks good?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jan 06, 2016, 13:47:50
Holley and KeiHin are far from apples. I would sooner spit in the manifold than run a Holley, fuckin Carter AFB is a better mixer... JMO  8)

I have two CB750's with pods and both launch with more power than the cops allow... seems you are doing something wrong. I do agree it could be better with a stock box and a good after market filter. This subject will never be any different than the current election process, free or freeload. haaah!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 06, 2016, 14:00:53
Holley and KeiHin are far from apples. I would sooner spit in the manifold than run a Holley, fuckin Carter AFB is a better mixer... JMO  8)

I have two CB750's with pods and both launch with more power than the cops allow... seems you are doing something wrong. I do agree it could be better with a stock box and a good after market filter. This subject will never be any different than the current election process, free or freeload. haaah!
My analogy is related to vacuum and velocity.  Obviously they are very different, but the need to mix fuel and air appropriately is the same.  Conditions must be matched. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 06, 2016, 14:04:00
I would sooner spit in the manifold than run a Holley, fuckin Carter AFB is a better mixer... JMO  8)

As far as this statement, I'm not as hot and cold to compare the two.  Except that Holley is waaaaaaay more tunable.  I'm running a Holley on an Edelbrock manifold and happy to be there.  I'd run a Demon before an Edelbrock (Carter) carb anyway.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Jan 06, 2016, 14:23:20
I can tune a holley but I can't Tune-A-Fishy!

If you can't tune your holley it's because it's too big!

Same as bikes!

Velocity Velocity Velocity!

Over anal-eyes-ation!

Want a faster bike? Sell the 250!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jan 06, 2016, 14:27:21
Demon is a Holley init? I like fuel injection now so anything less is too much work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 06, 2016, 17:04:45
Looks like I've struck a nerve.  I'll try and stay away from performance based discussions!  I actually have a bigger, faster bike.  But that's not the point now is it?  We do this cos its fun and we love wasting money on two wheeled machines right?

On another note, I touched up some images of the engine as it is now showing off the bolt kit and the latest valve inspection covers  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 06, 2016, 17:28:45
… but it is always nice to see some concrete numbers.

Some numbers:

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 06, 2016, 18:18:47
Some numbers:

Yeah that's a great article, love finding stuff like that.  Posted it two pages ago in this thread  ;)

Heres some real world numbers too:  http://www.emeraldm3d.com/articles/emr-adj-length-intake/

Rather than theories and simulations :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 06, 2016, 18:21:28
Started doing some more work on the carb too and noticed properly this time the JIS screws that doc_rat pointed out to me - the punched dot is a giveaway.  Even though I have noticed it before, I never knew what it was.  Cheers man.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Jan 06, 2016, 18:22:28
Looks like I've struck a nerve.
Lighten up will ya. Just stirring some marbles in to the jelly.

I just came up with that. It's a metaphor. ;D

Engine looks great! What kind of oil will you be using... :-X 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 06, 2016, 18:25:45
Lighten up will ya. Just stirring some marbles in to the jelly.

I just came up with that. It's a metaphor. ;D

Engine looks great! What kind of oil will you be using... :-X
Marbles aren't apples.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Jan 06, 2016, 18:27:41
Marbles aren't apples.
But they would be, if they could.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 06, 2016, 18:29:02
I commend you for putting together a bolt kit that is not stainless steel.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 07, 2016, 00:17:18
Posted it two pages ago in this thread

I missed it!

Heres some real world numbers too …

Good stuff!

Crazy
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 07, 2016, 02:14:33
Lighten up will ya. Just stirring some marbles in to the jelly.

I just came up with that. It's a metaphor. ;D

Engine looks great! What kind of oil will you be using... :-X

Haha, you're a stirrer!  I almost spat my coffee out when I read this comment of yours 'Over anal-eyes-ation!' lol  You're right though, way over complicating a simple function... and only for a 250.  Fun exercise though  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 07, 2016, 08:21:40
I have actually designed a version of these finned valve covers for the infamous TW200 as well.  They were quite similar to the SR ones so I decided to buy a used set from ebay and transfer some of the minor dimensional and detail changes to make them.  The cool thing is, these also fit the SR125 and the XT225.  I would love to know if there was any interest for these...  I rekon they would help with the TW200 (and the others) running hot.  A known issue if you're going to be running on the highway for a stretch.  I would get them made with a black anodized finish to match the TW200s black engine.  5-axis CNC machined 6063 billet aluminium  8)

Something cool that I just found out...  They are still making the TW200!  Exactly the same as it was when it was released back in 1987!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHPcYzRUTgo
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: ThomPa on Jan 08, 2016, 04:46:18
Looks awesome!

Maybe you could make some parts for the Honda 650 RFVC engine? Loads of guys are using those but I can't think of anything more than a new oil filter cover though..
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: DohcBikes on Jan 08, 2016, 09:18:22
Jadus please pm me with a price for the valve inspection caps.

FYI they will also fit YTM200 and YTM225 Three wheelers, as well as YFM200 YFM225 and YFM250 Moto4 ATV engines. So that's 5 more models over several years that you can market those to.

I am currently building a high compression big bore YTM225 engine, I'm gonna need a set.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Weldangrind on Jan 08, 2016, 12:46:37
Jadus, please PM me with a price for TW200 valve inspection caps.

You're right, the TW200 is largely unchanged since '87, with some notable exceptions, like deletion of the kicker, change to a disc brake on the front wheel and a more powerful stator.  From a few feet away, the only difference you'd notice is colour.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 09, 2016, 05:52:55
PMs sent :)  Thanks for showing interest.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 09, 2016, 05:59:05
Looks awesome!

Maybe you could make some parts for the Honda 650 RFVC engine? Loads of guys are using those but I can't think of anything more than a new oil filter cover though..

Man I would love to!  Maybe someday.  But for now, I am struggling just to get parts for one bike to market!  Its quite a massive undertaking to do all the design, prototyping, testing, finding trust worthy suppliers (god this is the biggest!), order samples, test fit and then strategically place production orders on the parts you believe in the most - requiring significant investment.  Especially being one person ;)  I love it though and would like to have a catalogue of parts for around 10 different model bikes in 5 or so years time.

I did manage to find these sweet valve covers that might fit your engine?  There are a few people selling them on Ebay and they look pretty rad!  Dunno about red though?!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 13, 2016, 09:07:53
Putting the carb back together slowly.  All the jets and the float valve were cleaned, the float bowl gasket replaced and diaphragm inspected.  I replaced a few of the o-rings too, the ones I could find that fit.  Unfortunately, not all of the parts are listed in the exploded diagram to be able to order, so if they're worn, you either have to improvise and find something that will work in its place, or try to revive what is there!  I had that situation with the butterfly valve shaft seals that nest into the two bosses on the sides of the carb throat.

I had been told by an old car restorer dude I used to work with that you can soak old rubber parts in brake fluid to bring thew to life again - or at least soften them up a bit to be able to use them for a while again.  I wasn't game enough to try it cos I read somewhere that if you leave them in the fluid too long, the corrosive additives to the brake fluid can break down the rubber too much and they can disintegrate!  Then I read somewhere that you could do a similar thing with WD40.  I felt a bit safer with WD40 so I gave that a crack.  Just sprayed a bit into a ziplock bag then placed the seals inside and squeezed the air out.  This is so the WD40 doesn't just evaporate right off and should soak into the rubber a bit. 

I left them in overnight and it seemed to work a treat!  For sure not like new, but soft enough to fit and form a seal again.  See how long they last...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jan 13, 2016, 10:28:00
Yeah, most carbs have throttle shaft seals and most parts diagrams do not show them. I know that some did a lot of research on them (for some of the Yamaha XJ-series bikes with Hitachi carbs) and found that QR-011 seals from McMaster-Carr worked on those carbs, but they used a Quad Ring/double-seal Nitrile/Viton ring. If you do the measurements on shaft/bore diameter and recess depth you might find one on their site. You could also try Reid Tool Supply (www.rtsindustrial.com).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 14, 2016, 09:08:13
Yeah, most carbs have throttle shaft seals and most parts diagrams do not show them. I know that some did a lot of research on them (for some of the Yamaha XJ-series bikes with Hitachi carbs) and found that QR-011 seals from McMaster-Carr worked on those carbs, but they used a Quad Ring/double-seal Nitrile/Viton ring. If you do the measurements on shaft/bore diameter and recess depth you might find one on their site. You could also try Reid Tool Supply (www.rtsindustrial.com).

Thanks for the tips!  Might have to take the route further down the track.  Couldnt find Reid Tool Supply though, dead link.  Then found/read that they are now: http://us.essentracomponents.com/  :)

I used to order stuff from McMaster-Carr all the time when I lived in the US.  I love their online catalogue.  Its really hard to get an account if you're living outside the US though  :-\
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 14, 2016, 18:26:42
 

I left them in overnight and it seemed to work a treat!  For sure not like new, but soft enough to fit and form a seal again.  See how long they last...

I have use a mixture of wintergreen oil and Xylene to recondition rubber parts. works great on carb boots.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 17, 2016, 17:44:51
I have use a mixture of wintergreen oil and Xylene to recondition rubber parts. works great on carb boots.

Sweet tip!  Those carb boots go bad on many bikes from this era ay.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 17, 2016, 18:04:36
Finally got the whole carb back together with the newly powder coated parts. 

I noticed when screwing in the butterfly valve screws that they stuck out quite a bit and I just read all about this interruption of airflow in Graham Bell's tuning book - he suggests trimming the screws machining out the shaft and thinning the plate!  Wont be doing that.  But I thought well why not just trim off 3mm from the screws anyway, nothing to loose.  You can see the difference in the first and second photos.

In the other photos you can also see the carb bolts I replaced - some nice button head allen head jobbies with stainless spring washers on the float bowl ones.  Thinking of making this a kit too maybe.  Its just that these are the JIS screws and I am sure many a noob, like me, has stripped these when trying to get into the carb for the first time in probably 20 odd years to clean it up.  So why not replace them with some nice ones...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cxman on Jan 17, 2016, 19:44:04
those screws stick through a bit as they are supposed to be staked to prevent them from ever being backed out

over the years i have seen many issues of the screws coming out and being eaten by the engine
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 18, 2016, 03:43:55
those screws stick through a bit as they are supposed to be staked to prevent them from ever being backed out

over the years i have seen many issues of the screws coming out and being eaten by the engine

^^^^^

Life/engine saver!  Thanks man.

I put some loctite on the screws, but should I take them out and put the permanent kind on instead or will that hold?  Just wondering if the atomized fuel will eat the loctite?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Milpool on Jan 18, 2016, 05:50:50
Love how much development you've put in for a bike that previously had such minimal aftermarket options. A company near me has started stocking some of your parts (mostyn industries, in Australia), in future would it benefit you most if I buy from them or through you directly?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 19, 2016, 04:15:02
Love how much development you've put in for a bike that previously had such minimal aftermarket options. A company near me has started stocking some of your parts (mostyn industries, in Australia), in future would it benefit you most if I buy from them or through you directly?

Thanks man.  I saw someone comment on on my instagram post of the SR wiring diagram I made that said 'Sr love'!  Not far from the truth.  Yeah, I couldn't understand that since I build my fist SR 6 years ago, there are still not any specific parts available for it, despite its popularity.  Poor things been forgotten by the aftermarket!

Its great Mostyn wanted to stock my parts, it showed they have faith in what I was doing.  That all happened very recently actually.  I am going to visit them in a couple weeks when I head to Australia.  They seem like rad folk.  I definitely recommend buying from them in future - you will get good support and cheaper shipping (parts wont be coming all the way from Sweden!).  I was surprised to see the (comparatively low) prices they put for my parts on their website, I couldn't understand them.  Until I talked to my Dad and he informed me that Australias sales tax is a crazy low 10%!  What!?  We poor bastards in the EU have to pay anywhere between 18 and 27% - 25 here in Sweden and Denmark.  Makes a big difference to the tax included price.

Anyway, you got yourself a project on the go?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 19, 2016, 04:47:25
PC ovens finally finished and wired up.  Not the tidiest but it works pretty well.  I haven't used it yet but my mate has done a couple bike parts in it (very different tastes to me in the way of colour).  There seems to be no heat leakage - you can touch your hand to the cabinet anywhere when its on and its just warm.  We wired in the thermostat from the old oven and two of the elements and it trips at 200 without problem.  The 3 phase plug wired in also makes it easy to plug in and out and be able to use the other standard oven I have for smaller parts.

Eventually, it would be nice to line the entire interior with thin aluminium sheet, but that's costly so will have to wait.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Milpool on Jan 19, 2016, 05:31:38
Anyway, you got yourself a project on the go?


Nothing worth posting. Currently wrestling over ordering a tail loop through mostyn because I can't be bothered doing the hour drive to pick it up. Had an sr250 for a while that I got really cheap just to learn to ride on really and play around with something cheap but splitting minimal funds between the sr and a Harley project have left them both pretty stagnant. I just enjoy seeing other people playing with them, gives me a bit of motivation and I can learn from them before I spend money on the wrong stuff.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 20, 2016, 04:05:39
but splitting minimal funds between the sr and a Harley project have left them both pretty stagnant.

Easy and very common thing to do!  At one point in Australia I had 3 projects on the go, then I only ended up finishing one of them.  Its all fun in the beginning of the project - being all creative and seeing good, visual, results.  Then it gets harder and harder towards the end when motivation starts running thin and your mind starts wandering to new more exciting projects that you dream up!

Good luck with the frame loop.  That will be a nice tidy detail when you install it :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 20, 2016, 04:09:04
Just got sent some final photos from the photo shoot of my first customer build and thought I would share one here.  The cool thing was, the customer himself is a photographer, so we made a pretty sweet deal with trading skills as payment.  Was also an added bonus we became good mates through the process  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sincerelyadam on Jan 20, 2016, 08:31:33
Nice XS!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 22, 2016, 14:59:01
While I was working on tidying up the frame a bit more before blasting, I decided to mount the header and the newly rebuilt carb to the engine to see how the whole package looks.  I love the look of this engine!  Not this one in particular, the SR250 in general I mean  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 26, 2016, 21:30:19
I am thinking of just making an aluminium bracket that adapts the tail light I chose to fit in the original tail light hole - then one of the bolt holes will become the electrical cable hole.  The two remaining bolt holes will be used to bolt on the license plate.

That leaves two holes on the side of the fender I would like to weld up and one dent on the top I would like to have a crack at banging out!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jan 27, 2016, 10:41:47
You should drill the wire hole a little larger and use a rubber grommet to keep the wire wrap from chafing away.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Weldangrind on Jan 27, 2016, 23:01:28
I like your tail light choice.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 28, 2016, 22:19:29
You should drill the wire hole a little larger and use a rubber grommet to keep the wire wrap from chafing away.

Good call!  Thanks for reminding me of that
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 28, 2016, 23:02:03
Welded the holes up and had a go at tapping out the dint - didn't go so well but I think it'll buff out ;)

I'm going to blast it and powder coat it black so I'll get away with using a tiny amount of metal filler anyway.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jan 28, 2016, 23:13:15
You want that metal stripped and super clean.  It makes a huge difference in the weld.  Sometimes with a dent like that, you can hit it with a torch to get it to pop out instead of planishing.  Regardless, it's a lot of soft tap tap taps.   
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Jan 29, 2016, 01:26:11
subscribed  :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jan 29, 2016, 12:18:59
+1 on the clean.  Get some good hand files.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 31, 2016, 07:07:46
You want that metal stripped and super clean.  It makes a huge difference in the weld.  Sometimes with a dent like that, you can hit it with a torch to get it to pop out instead of planishing.  Regardless, it's a lot of soft tap tap taps.

Very true.  I would usually sand/grind back to bare metal and especially remove the rust.  But you know some of those afternoons you just cant be arsed and just wanna get it done in 15?  Welding with gas is also a bit more forgiving in that sense too - more so than TIG where it likes to be cleaner.  It was popping a bit though!

Good tip with the torch on the dent though - forgot about that one.  Might have saved me some tap tap taps!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 31, 2016, 07:25:30
I got the first off-tool sample of the seat foam from my supplier a couple weeks ago and although it was good quality and looked great, it was a little too hard and a little undersized - when I referenced all the dimensions with my drawings.  They hadn't accounted for enough shrinkage in the mould (I think they calculated for 2-3% and it ended up being 5-6%).  So a couple weeks later, they had made a new tool (at their cost) and sent a new sample with a slightly softer compound as well.  Now its perfect! 

Now just waiting on the tooling to be completed for the plastic base and the metal fastening parts production order to be completed  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Jan 31, 2016, 19:58:38
Looking good! I'll be moving back home soon and would be so happy to see it live some time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Milpool on Feb 05, 2016, 03:03:35
Seat looks great!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 07, 2016, 20:10:53
Spent some time in CAD the last few days 'cos I got inspired from getting these foam samples.  I thought I could possibly design another more 'cafe' style seat for the SR while still using the same base construction.  This would mean only one new tool, rather than 2 new tools to get a new design completely.  I think its workable.  The idea is that the classic cafe 'hump' is foam and makes up an even portion of the whole seat so it can be used as a pillion seat - like a lot of the wrenchmonkees seats.  Just because for me personally, as much as I love riding solo, the joy of taking your mrs on a ride is too awesome to not include a space for her on the back  ;)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 15, 2016, 23:34:00
Thought I would post up the way I was intending the intake bellmouth to work with an existing K&N filter.  There is just enough flex in the lip of the filter to be able to push in the bellmouth and then position it in place with your finger while you tighten the clamp.  Once the clamp is tightened, you push the whole assembly over the opening of the carb and screw it in place with two set screws.  Now just waiting for quotes to make it in aluminium from my suppliers.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Feb 15, 2016, 23:53:23
I just put together the filters and air box velocity stacks for a CB750 K to do essentially the same mod, also I fond a set of UNI filters with the bellmouth built in.

Dirty carbs don't make sense, must be a third party reseller.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qHEAAOSwcu5URnYV/s-l1600.jpg)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QmUAAOSwDN1URnYW/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 16, 2016, 18:52:15
also I fond a set of UNI filters with the bellmouth built in.

Do you have a link for that?  They sound sweet.  Or are these the ones in the pics?  Are the red things just adapters for different carbs?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Feb 16, 2016, 19:06:46
I found them on eBay searching for UNI's for CB750
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Feb 19, 2016, 01:06:45
why not run a velocity stack inside the filter  ? does that make too much sense ?
but yeah that big beautiful k&n she's  got some belly on 'er, a pot (pulp fiction ref)swallering a stack ,no issue,.thats all
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Feb 19, 2016, 08:54:28
why not run a velocity stack inside the filter  ? does that make too much sense ?
but yeah that big beautiful k&n she's  got some belly on 'er, a pot (pulp fiction ref)swallering a stack ,no issue,.thats all

I bought these to do just that mang!

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/10/47aa217adfe0f6fcc0466ec988d9542c.jpg)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KqoAAOxydl5SIpHP/s-l1600.jpg)

Title: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Feb 19, 2016, 18:45:13
A little dirty but you get where I'm going

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/161aab26d749bfbe100f01bcfabfc3f1.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/6edac1f242729564b98516f812380f0c.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/59a45afa92f11b79e9769e08aaa2edad.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/023d6b34bd43f59f4b8ab712409718d6.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 21, 2016, 19:28:50
I bought these to do just that mang!

Looks awesome!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 22, 2016, 01:09:58
I'm on holiday in Australia, hence the lack of workshop activity.  It has however left me with dangerous pondering time...

What if I designed a bracket that allowed the re-positioning of the ignition timing pick up unit - which is fixed from the factory.  Might sound stupid, but I have read and heard that if your old engine is down on compression - say up to 20psi, you can add advance to get the power back up and not run the risk of detonation (because of the lower dynamic compression).  Then I read a whole lot of hot rodding stuff and many guys run about 14-15 degrees of initial advance (then you have the curve on top of that).  See the attached table (ignore the dyno graph) of different pulls with the different ignition settings.

I looked up the SR timing and it is fixed at 10 degrees BTDC with a 2 degree either side tolerance.  I calculated in CAD that by moving the pick up 6mm along its mounting arc, the advance could be increased or reduced by roughly 5 degrees.  Because of the CDI controlled ignition it would have an effect on the entire rpm range based on the pre-programmed (un-controlable) advance curve. 

Anyway, it will be a fun exercise to see if there is any noticeable difference in power or throttle response.  Then it could be cool to be able to retard ignition slightly if ever there were to be a boosted application  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: hillsy on Feb 22, 2016, 01:52:25
One of the first things I used to do when I got a new bike was to play around with the ignition timing. Generally speaking, most bikes can get a bit livelier with a few degrees advanced from stock.


Pretty easy to do on an in line 4 because they usually have the pick-ups on the end of the crank.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 22, 2016, 07:33:55
One of the first things I used to do when I got a new bike was to play around with the ignition timing. Generally speaking, most bikes can get a bit livelier with a few degrees advanced from stock.

Awesome man!  Good to hear from someone who has tried it :)  I will definitely give it a go.  Cheers
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 06, 2016, 16:07:27
Back in Sweden now and looking forward to getting back into the project. 

Was poking around on the internet today looking at SR stuff in Spanish - sooo much stuff out there in Spanish.  Who knew the SR was produced at the Spanish factory until 2002 and at the Mexican factory until 2014?!

Also found this little chart that shows the SR250's power output - which confirms previous thoughts/investigations.  Translation from Spanish =

_ Claimed output: 20 hp
_ Rear wheel output: 13.6 hp
_ Real engine output: 18.2 hp
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Mar 06, 2016, 17:10:44
I'd buy that bracket for sure. These bikes are tuned for emissions and not power. That being said, 5° of timing with a hopped up motor might make a difference. Say it made 1bhp difference. I doubt you'd feel it. But a better running motor is a better running motor.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 14, 2016, 07:34:51
I'd buy that bracket for sure. These bikes are tuned for emissions and not power. That being said, 5° of timing with a hopped up motor might make a difference. Say it made 1bhp difference. I doubt you'd feel it. But a better running motor is a better running motor.

Sweet, thanks for the vote of confidence.  I think if it made 1bhp difference it would be great - that would be a 7.5% increase in power haha.  Then like you say, the engine might be running cleaner too.  Despite what a lot of literature says, these engines dont have a bore of 75mm and displace 249cc, rather they have a 73.5mm bore and displace 239cc, which means the stated compression ratio of 9.2:1 is actually 8.9:1 which should allow for the 5 degrees increase in timing and make it perform better without detonation.  Provided the octane of the fuel is sufficient - say 95 here in Sweden. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 14, 2016, 07:39:15
I collected all of the nuts and bolts and various other components today that I want to get black zinc plated.  There is a mob locally that can do it so I'll see what they say about the larger items and then see what the results are like!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JohnGoFast on Mar 14, 2016, 10:34:20
I've had a lot of zinc and black zinc plating done. If you want a great finish on the larger pieces sand and polish them prior to plating. I usually polish or at least run under a wire brush, any large parts I have plated and large bolt heads that I know are going to be very visible. I'll try and find some of my pics for examples.

Also, if any of the pieces are chrome plated, the chrome will need to be completely removed prior to plating.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Mar 14, 2016, 11:43:15
i wonder if any virago 500 parts interchange ? very slight dif in bore-stroke but maybe cam train parts ?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 15, 2016, 05:24:13
I've had a lot of zinc and black zinc plating done. If you want a great finish on the larger pieces sand and polish them prior to plating. I usually polish or at least run under a wire brush, any large parts I have plated and large bolt heads that I know are going to be very visible. I'll try and find some of my pics for examples.

Also, if any of the pieces are chrome plated, the chrome will need to be completely removed prior to plating.

Thanks for the tips John.  I was hoping that the chrome and the other already existing finishes would be removed in some kind of chemical process prior to being re-plated?  And wouldn't that be the case for any grease or rust on the parts?  I have no experience with this!  When you say to sand/polish the parts for best results, does that mean the parts come up more shiny?  Ie, if you dont do it, does the finish diminish in quality or just lust?  Cheers :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 15, 2016, 05:38:35
i wonder if any virago 500 parts interchange ? very slight dif in bore-stroke but maybe cam train parts ?

Good idea!  Not sure though, just had a quick look at cams - dont seem like they are interchangeable.  I'll look into pistons though - for a big bore perhaps.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 15, 2016, 05:41:34
Looks like maybe an oversize Virago 535 piston could work - 77mm bore giving 260cc - a 10% displacement increase roughly.  Would need to buy one and measure it all up and that.

As for cams, I think it would be best to get the tt250 regrind from webcamshaft - the No 388.  I will do that for the next build but hoping not to crack the engine for this build if I dont have too.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 16, 2016, 06:12:18
I got the chance to print a couple of prototypes of the ignition brackets I drew up in CAD.  Then I was able to do a bit of a test fit/trial install.  I want it to be as easy as possible so any body could do it with just a screw driver, a drill and some patience!  Haha.

The first prototypes showed I needed to adjust the shape slightly so it fit easier and was easier to locate - these are the ones in the pictures.  I had to chop them up a bit to make them fit.  The second prototype was pretty much spot on.  So now I'll draw up some dimensional drawings and get them made in aluminium so I can test it all properly :)

Originally I was hoping that the kit could be installed without any modifications at all, but I just couldn't get it to work.  Anyway, now all that is required is a slight countersink to one of the mounts.  This allows an M3 bolt to sit flush on the perch.  The countersink is achieved with a 6.5mm drill tip, which I figure most DIY guys would have?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Mar 22, 2016, 00:00:50
Sweet, thanks for the vote of confidence.  I think if it made 1bhp difference it would be great - that would be a 7.5% increase in power haha.  Then like you say, the engine might be running cleaner too.  Despite what a lot of literature says, these engines dont have a bore of 75mm and displace 249cc, rather they have a 73.5mm bore and displace 239cc, which means the stated compression ratio of 9.2:1 is actually 8.9:1 which should allow for the 5 degrees increase in timing and make it perform better without detonation.  Provided the octane of the fuel is sufficient - say 95 here in Sweden.

Sort of. There are two motors. One has 239cc, one has 249cc. The North American bikes are all 249cc.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 24, 2016, 16:28:42
Sort of. There are two motors. One has 239cc, one has 249cc. The North American bikes are all 249cc.

Aha, thanks for the info.  That would be the bikes from '80 - '83 right?  Those bikes dont leave much room for a big bore then huh.  Unless of coarse the crankcases are opened up for a new sleeve.  I have read about 5 or 6 projects where people have done it but it just seems like so much work, and work that needs to be outsourced to specialists as well.  I was hoping to develop a big bore kit later down the track - one that just required re-boring the sleeve.  Gotta rethink that one now!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 24, 2016, 16:49:00
I received the new and updated rear frame loop sample last week.  Then I test fit it and gave it the go-ahead for production. 

Today I had the chance to weld in place the old one I had so I didn't waste it.  Just welded the outside seams for cosmetics, otherwise it is not load bearing or critical in any other way.

Once that was done I fired up the compressor and pot blaster and blasted the frame.  Damn what a mission.  I must be doing something wrong because it took a couple of hours at least.  Doesn't help that the compressor only just keeps up and I have to wait for it to cycle every few minutes!  Haha
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 30, 2016, 01:01:40
Yesterday I picked up the parts from the platers and they look awesome.  Very much worth the drive to take them there.  It was cool to see how they hang the small details as well.  I just presumed they would be barrel plated but the guy said they hang everything.  He also expects me to do the wire tying next time I take stuff to him  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 31, 2016, 16:30:02
Received the metal ignition advance bracket prototypes today.  They look sweet - looking forward to testing them :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Mar 31, 2016, 23:32:52
When you had those parts 'plated' black,is that a black-chrome plating?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 01, 2016, 03:11:47
When you had those parts 'plated' black,is that a black-chrome plating?

To my understanding they are electroplated with zinc first, then are passivized.  Which could also be called black chromated zinc I guess...  It seems like a pretty hard surface anyway  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Apr 01, 2016, 08:10:30
To my understanding they are electroplated with zinc first, then are passivized.  Which could also be called black chromated zinc I guess...  It seems like a pretty hard surface anyway  :D

Can they dip mag wheels
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Apr 01, 2016, 14:26:01
To my understanding they are electroplated with zinc first, then are passivized.  Which could also be called black chromated zinc I guess...  It seems like a pretty hard surface anyway  :D

I would like to find a 'plater' to do similar work here in the USA,I'll just have to do more research..
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: ThomPa on Apr 01, 2016, 20:01:19
To my understanding they are electroplated with zinc first, then are passivized.  Which could also be called black chromated zinc I guess...  It seems like a pretty hard surface anyway  :D

How much did it cost you? And what was the process called?  pretty interested..
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 02, 2016, 18:15:43
Can they dip mag wheels

Good question...  I walked into the workshop and they had some pretty massive looking vats but I am not sure about the scale of things.  If you look at their website they have some photos of some larger items and have a diagram showing their maximum footprint to be 3000mm x 1100 x 600.  Would a mag wheel be smaller than 1.1m?

How much did it cost you? And what was the process called?  pretty interested..

I got that stuff done for cash of course, so was a bit different but it wasn't expensive.  The process in Swedish is called 'Svartpassivering' which translates to black passivization.  But I think it is black chrome to be honest.  Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I'm certainly no expert. 

From the website if you can be arsed translating:  'Efter elförzinkningen kromateras/passiveras detaljerna blå, gula eller svarta för att ytterligare förbättra korrosionsskyddet.'

These guys:  http://www.galvanoverken.se/verksamhet.aspx
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 02, 2016, 18:47:17
Yay for the weekend.  I got to test fit the machined ignition brackets and blast some more parts.  The brackets fit a treat and are pretty simple to install.  Some of the blasted parts will be powder coated and some will remain as they look - the aluminium parts.  I really like the contrast of raw aluminium wheel/brake plates against the black powder coated hubs  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Apr 05, 2016, 17:29:00
if you are gonna leave the hub bare you might want to do a "brushed" look. bare sandblasted surfaces attract dirt like crazy and are very difficult to clean because of the "tooth" the media leaves. Everything is looking good though. The black Zinc looks great.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Apr 06, 2016, 10:44:20
if you are gonna leave the hub bare you might want to do a "brushed" look. bare sandblasted surfaces attract dirt like crazy and are very difficult to clean because of the "tooth" the media leaves. Everything is looking good though. The black Zinc looks great.

Indeed.  Lots of raw surface area from blasting oxidizes quite rapidly and looks aged in a short time.  Aluminum alloys are quite difficult to maintain a nice finish on.  Anodizing is the best (colors can be very prone to fading in the sun but clear has good life)but most alloys used for casting turn dark in the process.  Vapor blasting or glass beading with new large beads leaves a smooth shiny long lasting finish on castings but is not locally available in most places in the US.  A brushed finish will oxidize fairly rapidly, but often is easy to maintain so can be a good option.  The smoother the surface the less area and the longer it maintains its appearance.  That is why polishing is good as long as you can get at it to maintain it.  Clear coats work well but it is troublesome to prepare for.  Aluminum starts to oxidize instantly when a new surface - say from scotchbrite - is exposed to the oxygen in the air.  You may not see it, but simply clearcoating that flawlessly finished fork leg will not preserve it.  Eventually you will see the corrosion under the clear.  You can solve this problem by passivating the surface which will stop the oxidation process, but doing so requires a bath in chromic acid and cyanide, something you don't want to try at home even if you can somehow acquire the materials.  I have read where people claim clear powdercoating is good, but I have not seen it to be any different than 2k clear against corrosion creep under it in my own experience.

So for me, these are the options for aluminum alloy parts that will stay bare:  2000 and 6000 alloys wrought components can be anodized.  Castings get polished, painted silver (they will get corrosion under the paint eventually but it won't show for a very long time), polished, or glass beaded depending on the application.  I usually paint engine cases silver so they look like aluminum.  Hubs are a good candidate for paint as well because they are hard to maintain (spoke wheels) and paint cleans easily.  Brake backing plates and fork legs usually get polished because they are easy to maintain by touching up the polish on the bike, though I have done the brush finish then passivated and clear coated when it absolutely positively had to be museum original perfect.  Parts like carburetors I glass bead with brand new large glass beads.  Very nice shiny smooth long lasting finish like vapor blasting, but fairly expensive as the beads have a super short lifespan before they break and start cutting into the surface.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 07, 2016, 13:59:14
Thanks for the suggestions and tips.  I think I'll polish them - just because I dont like the idea of painting them and dealing with the flaking down the track.  I do have a soda blaster on the other side of the bead blaster I have been using, so perhaps I'll use that in the future to avoid as much media 'bite' into the surface.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Apr 07, 2016, 14:01:53
I'm just gonna sneak this in here.

This is what you can ride if you buy some parts off Jadus and build your own SR250:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxkXMTmjda0
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 08, 2016, 06:26:06
Man, awesome vid, thanks for sharing.  Loving the reverse shift set up and the intake noise!  Also those roads, damn, lucky to live close to that  ;D

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Apr 08, 2016, 09:55:20
Man, awesome vid, thanks for sharing.  Loving the reverse shift set up and the intake noise!  Also those roads, damn, lucky to live close to that  ;D

Great quality video w/ Nice scenes,the bike sounds good  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Apr 08, 2016, 16:26:43
Great video !  What cameras did you use?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Apr 08, 2016, 22:56:39
GoPro Hero 4 session. The little cube. Along with an assortment of $2 eBay China mounts.

Just a quick edit in iMovie. I'll try some other software next with a Ducati ride. Getting the shifting right and gear counts isn't easy.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 11, 2016, 13:31:05
GoPro Hero 4 session. The little cube. Along with an assortment of $2 eBay China mounts.

Just a quick edit in iMovie. I'll try some other software next with a Ducati ride. Getting the shifting right and gear counts isn't easy.

Yeah I was gonna say something about the sweet shots and sound quality too.  Really nice.  Did you do anything special to avoid wind noise?  Or do GoPro's do that on their own? (never used one  :P)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Apr 11, 2016, 18:19:46
I taped off the holes on the mic.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Apr 11, 2016, 21:03:03
The Go pros are noisy I think
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 12, 2016, 17:05:43
A bit slow with progress this and last week.  I have had to take on more design work to help pay for the production orders I am placing.  Which is awesome, but means there's not as much time left at the end of the day/end of the week for the bike.

Speaking of orders...  I got the first order of fork braces last week and they look feckn awesome.  I ended up ordering some custom cut shims as well to make every installation a snug fit.  I will send these out with each set.

I also decided to order the vinyl stickers I designed - the dripping Yamaha tuning forks logo.  Hoping other people dig them too  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Apr 13, 2016, 01:21:40
Jadus,
That build is just 'Dripping' Yamaha all over the place  ! :D I never have yet listened to the sound of a wet tuning fork..  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 13, 2016, 03:43:42
Jadus,
That build is just 'Dripping' Yamaha all over the place  ! :D I never have yet listened to the sound of a wet tuning fork..  ;)

Ha!  Me neither.  But tuning forks are pretty fascinating in themselves ;) 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 13, 2016, 03:51:10
These came in the mail today.  Woohoo!

The idea is that the bellmouth bolts right up to the SR carb (which is does - fits a treat, thanks to my 3D printer and many prototypes) with just a couple of set screws.  Then clamp the filter on over the top - yeah, you've seen this earlier in the thread.  But I actually think these would bolt right up to the stock BS34 XS650 carbs too...  If they work, thats pretty sweet!

The three different length tubes are for the 4th, 3rd and 2nd harmonic.  I bought some rubber intercooler hose to be able to clamp the different lengths to the carb and then the actual bellmouth just bolts on the the end of the tube - nice and flush on the inside surface.  Then I can test to see if there is any noticeable different between them all.  My guess is that it will be unmeasurable, but hopefully the difference between the airbox and this bellmouth (with filter) IS noticeable.  We'll see huh!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Apr 13, 2016, 08:30:56
Cute as a bleached sphincter  :o
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Apr 13, 2016, 15:03:28
but that bellmouth is actually only at its efficiency when in open air or well inside a large box
clamping a filter to it negates much of its effect and intended efficiency
it is designed to let air spill in smoothly from all around it ,hence its form with the scuplted round as apposed to a thin sharp bellmouth that you see on lots of stacks
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Apr 13, 2016, 20:48:19
but that bellmouth is actually only at its efficiency when in open air or well inside a large box
clamping a filter to it negates much of its effect and intended efficiency
it is designed to let air spill in smoothly from all around it ,hence its form with the scuplted round as apposed to a thin sharp bellmouth that you see on lots of stacks

Well - yes . . . to all of that but . . . . There is still value!  Certainly the length of the tube (trial and error seems to be the means to get the best balance despite the calculations - temperature is your enemy!) can come into play, and the entry curve (seems to be unclear as to the best ratio) will still be useful even inside a somewhat claustrophobic air filter (agree a big box would be better of course) - but hey - it's a motorcycle, and style points are important.  Pretty girls are preferred.  I already know how to cook!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 16, 2016, 07:18:07
but that bellmouth is actually only at its efficiency when in open air or well inside a large box
clamping a filter to it negates much of its effect and intended efficiency
it is designed to let air spill in smoothly from all around it ,hence its form with the scuplted round as apposed to a thin sharp bellmouth that you see on lots of stacks

You might be right, but as jpmobius says, there will hopefully still be value.  Besides, if I dont try, what have a I learned?

I read the K&N website guidelines for filter placement and distance and the recommendation is a miniumum of 1.5'' from bellmouth edge to filter cloth.  This is the information I used to base my filter purchase decision on.  According to the attached images (pictured is the 3D printed prototype), using this filter, do you think it would still be an issue?  I personally don't, or if it did, it would be a poofteenth of a poofteenth.  I have read that the gauze that some people use over intake trumpets is much more detrimental to flow than a correctly sized, proper air filter.  You are right that this set up will not be ideal though, but hopefully, a good compromise...

I would rather not delve into this discussion for a second time in this thread though!  Haha.  Lets just see what happens on the dyno ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 16, 2016, 07:24:15
In other news I received the first offtool samples for the ABS seat base.  It looks awesome and fits perfectly.  I had three thickness options to choose from from the supplier and checked them all to see which was the best.

I was really stoked that it fit first time and no expensive tooling modifications need to be done.  However I needed to make a revision to the drawings and update the mounting hole position - which just means tweaking the milling program that cuts out the seats straight off the mould, so hopefully no additional costs there.  I also added some holes for water drainage.  Even though the foam is closed cell foam and wont absorb any water, if the seat is ever exposed to torrential rain, there may be some water that gets in and in that case it would be nice if it can drain/dry away from both the top surfaces and the underneath  :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Apr 16, 2016, 09:52:07
Nice seat base.Did you use the thickest ABS ?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Apr 16, 2016, 11:28:32
Quick seat question - How did your upholsterer fasten the cover to your prototype? Glue, staples, pop rivets, separate seat panel that fastened to the pan?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 19, 2016, 03:56:07
Hi guys, to answer your questions, they actually go hand in hand... 

The upholsterer I am using swears by the stapling method - the long stainless ones with a pneumatic operated gun.  But ABS is so tough that the stables wont go right into the thickest of the bases.  So I shot for the middle thickness (which is what I spec'd in the drawings).  The reason we tried the thicker sheets was because I was concerned that the form of the seat would pull a lot of thickness out of the part on the high spots during the forming process.  But this was not so much the case - wall thickness deviates .5mm max and the base is plenty strong in all areas.  It actually gains some rigidity with the foam part on top too believe it or not :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 19, 2016, 03:59:41
Its all coming together for the seats now!  I received these metal seat components from the Swedish supplier yesterday :)

Overkill on packaging?  Bit of a joke really.  I'm quite pissed at how much I paid for the pallets and the freight now.  Could have been packed in a shoe box with some bubble wrap if you ask me!  Wonder who makes these calls???
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Apr 19, 2016, 18:40:40
That should almost be illegal to do. Ridiculous size on those pallets. Who makes your molds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Apr 21, 2016, 17:04:04
hay man i think you are doing a fantastic job with everything my point about the stack was only to suggest that its best use with that type of rounded bell edge
anyway i do have a killer idea but it may make you want to take up smoking  :)
if you had a section of say 3-5" long crystal clear plastic tube between the bell mouth and filter you could sit there all day entertaining yourself and shop guests
simply remember to keep one lit at all times and blow smoke onto the the filter whilst you free wind and panic rev the motor up and down ;D and everybody will be hooked watching the flow stream
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Apr 21, 2016, 17:11:32
Do I need to buy something from you again  :-X
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Apr 21, 2016, 23:48:49
Do I need to buy something from you again  :-X

 ::) chimp lips shrink  slips ,pilgrim
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 22, 2016, 05:07:33
That should almost be illegal to do. Ridiculous size on those pallets. Who makes your molds?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed.  I have since contacted them and it seems like one of those 'big company' type situations where they have tried to put a system in place for assessing packing and shipping, but in the end, its just easier to do the same for all customers, and these guys do a lot of big stuff and a lot of large quantity orders...

The bases are made by a company in Nyköping called StegoPlast.  They're pretty big and do some quite advanced stuff.  The actual mould though, I'm not sure sorry - they outsource all their tooling work and then focus on the plastic moulding side of things I believe.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 22, 2016, 05:14:43
hay man i think you are doing a fantastic job with everything my point about the stack was only to suggest that its best use with that type of rounded bell edge
anyway i do have a killer idea but it may make you want to take up smoking  :)
if you had a section of say 3-5" long crystal clear plastic tube between the bell mouth and filter you could sit there all day entertaining yourself and shop guests
simply remember to keep one lit at all times and blow smoke onto the the filter whilst you free wind and panic rev the motor up and down ;D and everybody will be hooked watching the flow stream

Thanks man!  That sounds like a sweet idea - would be real entertaining!

I set up some of my stuff for display at a Start Up Fair yesterday in Lund - a sort of interaction with students.  Most of the people there were working with app development or some kind of web based start up.  So I stood out a bit, but sadly, no one seemed interested!  Kids these days huh.  At the very end, three dudes came to chat to me and they were studying mechanical engineering and they really appreciated and loved the stuff.  That made the whole day worth while haha.  But perhaps it was the wrong kind of crowd for this kind of stuff.

Check out a snap from the display - I made up some engine plates/stands to show everything clearly.  Its starting to look a bit like a hot rod engine  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on Apr 22, 2016, 09:28:23
Looks great man
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Apr 22, 2016, 09:31:42
Looks great man

Yes  :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Apr 25, 2016, 19:51:41
So bummed out I missed the fair, would have been fun to have a chat. Came back home later in the day and saw your post on Instagram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 26, 2016, 14:48:13
Thanks guys.

Man you should have said hi!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Apr 26, 2016, 18:46:43
Yeah, but I missed the whole thing. Been working on my BFA project since January and it's suppose to be done in like 3 weeks so I'm stuck in Nybro until end of May.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 27, 2016, 03:10:00
I found a couple of images/diagrams I took screenshots of from my CAD file to see what the spark advance increase would be with re-positioning it.  Cant remeber If I have shared these or not yet...

Anyway, by moving it forward 6-7mm, the advance will increase by 4-5degrees   :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 30, 2016, 05:52:04
I fear I have made a big mistake!  haha, no, just over-committed myself again perhaps.

I decided it would be beneficial to buy a bone stock SR250 to do some testing on - for the cooling and performance parts.  I thought it might speed up the process and provide a blank canvas for making some installation instructions and perhaps even some installation videos.  Because these bikes are not very popular in Sweden, I decided to look in Denmark as well.  I found a pretty cheap bike and decided to go through all the process of importing it to Sweden.  Nightmare ensues...  More to come.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Extreme_250 on May 04, 2016, 01:41:12
Dude, awesome build. I'm gonna turn my 81' SR250 into a tracker, cant wait. How are those seats/frame loops coming along? I might be interested in buying one of each if you still wind up selling them. Right now I've got the whole rear end off my bike, gonna do a bit of touch up on the frame and paint the swingarm. I will eventually wind up having the frame and all the stuff powder coated but my budget is a bit tight right now.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 07, 2016, 06:25:35
Thanks man!

Well I have approved the samples and ordered the frame loops, they'll be arriving hopefully at the end of June.  As for the seats, on Wednesday this week I received 200 foam components and 50 base components - the metal parts I already have.  So most of the parts are here!  I have ordered the special vinyl and thread and that should be here early next week.  Then I'll be taking a few to a local artisan to cover them. 

I will also be offering these seats for sale as a 'blank canvass'.  That is, the foam, the base and the metal mounting components as an assembly.  Then you could either try cover it yourself, take it to a local upholster and get whatever finish you like (thousands of stitch colour, type, vinyl or leather colour/type/finish), or even trim the foam part a bit yourself and achieve an even lower profile 'bratstyle' seat if you like :)

As I have said previously, I've taken on a lot more design consulting work recently to bring in some money, so things are progressing a little slower with this build than they were :(
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 07, 2016, 06:29:00
I did however make some time to do a proper service on this ratty SR that I bought and got it running real smooth so that's a plus.  I ran a compression check and got this...  Translates to around 140psi right?  Not bad I thought for a 30+ year old beater bike!

I am thinking to keep this thread on track, I will create another thread for the testing of the parts on this particular bike - then it will just be easier to reference one thread for stats and performance info on the SR250.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Extreme_250 on May 07, 2016, 20:12:42
That's great man. I've got my new bars, and I love them even with the stock seat haha. Money is tight right now, so I believe I'm gonna keep the stock seat for now until I can buy either one from you, or an SR400/500 seat from Motolanna. I've got all my electric stuff tucked away under the seat, so that's looking good. All I need to order right now is a battery, air filter and crankcase breather. How is you bike running with that K&N filter? Did you have to rejet the bike?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 08, 2016, 15:30:26
Good job man. 

I haven't run the bike yet actually.  But general rule of thumb is if you change anything with the intake or exhaust, you'll need to rejet, or at least adjust the carb.  You might be able to screw in the air screw till it bottoms out, them back it off 1/2 a turn or a full turn.  If that still runs too lean on idle and 1/4 throttle, you want to go up on the pilot.  You'll probably want to go up on the main too just to be safe, but do lots of testing and plug inspections.  You might want to raise the needle a notch too for the midrange.

A word of caution on the Motolana seats...  They look great and the quality is also really good, but easy to install?  Far from it I believe.  I had a mate install one and ended up having to bend it to get it to fit - not the coolest thing to do to a brand new seat!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Extreme_250 on May 08, 2016, 16:55:47
Yeah I agree, I've read some builds where guys put them on SR250's, and there is a lot of work involved to get it to fit.

I'm debating whether I want to go small battery like an Anti Gravity, or keep my regular sized one. If it came just down to looks, Anti Gravity all the way. But I ride in the cold a lot, and I'm thinking it might be to much on a small battery.

What do you think about this filter? https://www.mikesxs.net/parts/yamaha-xs650-54mm-tapered-oval-pod-air-filter-2-1-8

"Premium quality 54mm. motorcycle Pod Air Filter - Tapered Oval style with Chrome end cap.
(2.75") deep x 74 mm. (2.91") wide x 85 mm. (3 3/8") high (at base).

Pod is an improved replica (Dyno & flow bench developed) of the most popular brand on the market.
Features molded in internal stack, no step rubber mount flange and Chrome end cap.
Filter is supplied dry but washable filtration material may be oiled for improved dust filtration.
The flange does not block the openings in the stock carbs as other standard pod filters do.
Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda.
Fits: 1980-84 stock Mikuni BS34 CV Carbs + some Mikuni TM aftermarket carbs.
Fits: Flatslide PWK 32mm. XS Performance Carb Set for XS650
Note: Each kit requires 2 filters.
Compatible with XS400Pod fits to velocity stack on Dellorto PHF36 carbs and SR250's"
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on May 09, 2016, 13:38:41
My motolanna install was a nightmare to get right. My take on my build is that I bout the tank around the seat that I bough. It worked out sure, but if I were interested in still working on my SR, I'd make a metal tail from a modded tank that is the same tank as I chose. A Suzuki GT380 tank. With a simple hoop and some upholstery etc.

My current setup detracts from the overall look of the bike imho. I would not go motolanna except for an XV920 build.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 12, 2016, 03:25:09
My motolanna install was a nightmare to get right. My take on my build is that I bout the tank around the seat that I bough. It worked out sure, but if I were interested in still working on my SR, I'd make a metal tail from a modded tank that is the same tank as I chose. A Suzuki GT380 tank. With a simple hoop and some upholstery etc.

My current setup detracts from the overall look of the bike imho. I would not go motolanna except for an XV920 build.

Yeah thats what I have heard/seen from others as well.  I have seen many build threads or build blogs with the seat being the bane of the build for most.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 12, 2016, 03:29:01
In contrast, these are almost a direct bolt on fit  ;D

With this 'blank canvas' option the possibilities are endless ;)  Will be adding these to the webshop over the weekend.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 12, 2016, 03:32:08
Yeah I agree, I've read some builds where guys put them on SR250's, and there is a lot of work involved to get it to fit.

I'm debating whether I want to go small battery like an Anti Gravity, or keep my regular sized one. If it came just down to looks, Anti Gravity all the way. But I ride in the cold a lot, and I'm thinking it might be to much on a small battery.

What do you think about this filter? https://www.mikesxs.net/parts/yamaha-xs650-54mm-tapered-oval-pod-air-filter-2-1-8


I've had anti gravity batteries in a couple of bikes and they're awesome.  Let it discharge too much by mistake though and its toast.  Would be the same with other lithium ion ones too. 

That filter will be fine man.  Not as good for filtration as a foam one but if you like the look of it, go for it ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on May 12, 2016, 08:49:12
Price for one of those? and what are the dimensions looks like a modifiable pan ABS can be remolded some and welded to I'm thinking XL350 application and my HoZuki of course  :o 2 fer deals? 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on May 12, 2016, 12:04:49
I have the smallest 4 cell on my 250. I made a little pan under the seat. Cranks over just fine. My first antigravity failed and bulged but because I live in Canada, a warranty return cost more than buying a new one.

They prorate the warranty for how old the battery is. After six months it shouldn't bulge and fail. New one is a year old and happy.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on May 12, 2016, 12:12:53
This is now my antigravity sits.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Extreme_250 on May 12, 2016, 14:41:00
Those seats look fantastic!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 12, 2016, 17:31:16
Price for one of those? and what are the dimensions looks like a modifiable pan ABS can be remolded some and welded to I'm thinking XL350 application and my HoZuki of course  :o 2 fer deals?

Just added to the webshop! 

http://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/#!product-page/c826/1d9c3a07-3629-cb09-77a8-e33182504137

Rather than rambling off some dimensions I figure you may as well see the drawing I have for it.  Dont think anyone on the intraweb could do anything with it anyway - ie rip it off.  The dimensions are in gold indicating a conflict in the file but they are as they are on the parts :)

Because of the weird/unique bend in the SR frame I am not sure just how suitable it would be for other frames...  You will know that much better than me!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 12, 2016, 17:37:02
This is now my antigravity sits.

Now that is discrete!  I was thin king of developing another part for the SR250 and that would be an electrics tray for under the seat.  Even though it is not to my personal taste, I understand the appeal of an open triangle and I have had a few people email me asking about some kind of battery box/electrics tray.

Btw, how many 'cranks' i guess do you get out of that size battery before it runs low?  If you're having starting problems while carburetor/jetting testing for example?  I have the next size up anti gravity on my 600cc transalp and its grunty as hell!  But that one is tiny!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on May 13, 2016, 00:56:07
If I let the carb get dirty or let it sit with ethanol gas in it, it starts a bit fussy. I have run the battery down before messing with a hard start issue. Hence the kick start.

I'd say it would run for a good two minutes on the starter.

I had a minor charging issue and swapped out rectifier/regulator once. It immediately improved the cranking. It wasn't charging all that well.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 14, 2016, 12:39:49
If I let the carb get dirty or let it sit with ethanol gas in it, it starts a bit fussy. I have run the battery down before messing with a hard start issue. Hence the kick start.

I'd say it would run for a good two minutes on the starter.

I had a minor charging issue and swapped out rectifier/regulator once. It immediately improved the cranking. It wasn't charging all that well.

Cheers for the info.  If I design a tray kit I will use that battery as the basis for dimensions.  The nice thing with these bikes is you can always bump start them pretty easy too! 

Anyone have any experience with the Ballistic battery equivalent of the AntiGravity in this size?  Would be good to know for sizing/packaging requirements as well :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 15, 2016, 05:30:44
New separate testing thread up!  ;D

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=70174.0
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on May 15, 2016, 12:48:32
New separate testing thread up!  ;D

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=70174.0
hey man what diameter is the sr fr drum ?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 15, 2016, 16:44:31
hey man what diameter is the sr fr drum ?

Don't have it in my head.  I'll measure it up for ya when I'm in the workshop next.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 17, 2016, 03:09:51
Finally some time for this project on the weekend  ;D

I tried out the powder coating oven for the first time.  It went well!  I have never owned/used an oven that comes up to temperature so fast - 8-10 mins to get to 200C.  And next to no heat leakage either - you can put your hand anywhere on the outside of the cabinet and its just warm.

I need to sort out a decent place to actually lay on the powder though - I ended up with quite a lot of dust and stuff that also gets stuck on/attracted to the parts when they are charged.  Maybe some kind of other cabinet is needed.

I got on a roll and did some of the engine mounts, the side stand and the brake rod.  I didn't mask the threaded part - I thought I'd just run a die over it later.  Then the little air compressor I use with the PC gun shat itself and I had to fix it - so I didn't quite get to the frame.  Perhaps a blessing in disguise as I want the result on the frame to be a bit better and set things up a bit better before I do it.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 17, 2016, 03:25:09
Here you can see some of the dust now baked onto the parts.  Plus, not the best finish - a little orange peel.  But I'll get better at laying it on hopefully.  The idea is to practice on parts like this - the sort of forgotten details in the background that you dont look to closely at - so that I can do the more important parts better.  Hopefully. 

I tried something else too - metal filler.  I tried it on a non-critical part first - another kickstand.  The key is to sand it back down to 400 grit so that the edge of the filler to the metal is super thin, then the powder wont cling to that edge as much and should create a smooth layer over it.  The powder obviously doesn't cling to the filler as well as metal, but if you are careful with the gun and are generous with the application, it covers up fine.  Then I baked it and was pleasantly surprised with the result.  This led me to fill some of the ugly welds on the SR frame with it - what a sin!  Filler on a frame!  I actually tried cleaning up some of the shit ugly factory welds with my welder but it put so much extra, unnecessary heat into the joints of the frame, I decided to just fill the areas with this stuff instead.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 25, 2016, 15:55:40
Finally got the frame powder coated!  After repairing the small compressor and cleaning the frame with acetone, it was time for a test fit in the oven.  It was tight!  Didn't go in sideways or forwards, had to be on a slight angle.  And as anyone who has powder coated before knows, once the powder is on dry, you sure as hell dont want to touch it.  So I had to be damn careful getting it in there!

This feels like a big step.  Hopefully the remaining smaller parts for blasting and powder coating will go a bit quicker/easier.  The next step will be building up a rolling chassis.  Cant wait for that!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on May 26, 2016, 10:33:43
You do know elements heat by resistance, right?  That means they can shock you when touched.  That heat box is scary beyond all hell.  It's turning black because you're getting it hot enough to burn all the binders in the glass, which means you're starting to breath that stuff. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 26, 2016, 16:17:56
You do know elements heat by resistance, right?  That means they can shock you when touched.  That heat box is scary beyond all hell.  It's turning black because you're getting it hot enough to burn all the binders in the glass, which means you're starting to breath that stuff.

Thanks for your concern for my personal health.  I'll endeavor to wear a mask next time I operate it.  The area is well ventilated - forced through a ventilation system so that would help.

I can explain the blacking though - its not burning the insulation in normal operation.  One time, right in the beginning I foolishly did a quick test with it and the elements accidentally dropped and touched the insulation - hence burning and blackening it on the bottom there.  Also another stupid mistake I made was to do another quick 'test' and try to powder coat something in the oven before turning it on (with the elements covered) and some over spray gathered on the walls.  I am a complete rookie here man, and just like the Swedish saying goes... 'Man måste prova sig fram'...  You've gotta try stuff right?  And I am not afraid to try ;)

Excuse my ignorance but you can get shocked?  Its wired up just like is was in the oven it came from...  You mean to tell me that anyone can accidentally shock themselves in their home oven by accidentally touching one of the coils?  Anyway, thanks for your concern again.  And I dont think it is very fun to touch red hot elements anyway, so that will be avoided for now haha
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on May 27, 2016, 14:51:33
In there current state, the elements shouldn't shock you, because the heating wire is embedded in magnesium oxide which is an insulator.  If they crack, then that's another story.  I admit I tend to lean way far on the side of safety, but as you may remember, I build stuff like this so i can be somewhat of a curmudgeon about doing things a certain way.  If things aren't breaking down, then don't mind me.  But, in the event that a hanger fails or something like that and it cracks or breaks the element then be aware you can get a shock. Knowing myself, I might be apt to keep it running while loading and unloading, so it's just something to be aware of. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 30, 2016, 04:39:45
In there current state, the elements shouldn't shock you, because the heating wire is embedded in magnesium oxide which is an insulator.  If they crack, then that's another story.  I admit I tend to lean way far on the side of safety, but as you may remember, I build stuff like this so i can be somewhat of a curmudgeon about doing things a certain way.  If things aren't breaking down, then don't mind me.  But, in the event that a hanger fails or something like that and it cracks or breaks the element then be aware you can get a shock. Knowing myself, I might be apt to keep it running while loading and unloading, so it's just something to be aware of.

Oh yea!  You make these things for a living right?!  Then I understand your concern.  This set up is very amateur to say the least haha.  But thats good advice, I'll keep an eye on the elements. I too have heard if they get damaged in any way they loose their insulation and send the current through your body instead of the earth wire!  I unplug it from the wall each time I am done with it as well to avoid any mishaps when not in use ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 08, 2016, 18:16:42
Couple things came in the mail today - some carb diaphragms from JBM and the short cable kit samples  - rev.2  ;D

Quite often the diaphragms in these carbs look worn but still have no holes and still work fine.  Not the one on this bike.  Hole right through.  Never tried these solid rubber replacements before so it'll be interesting to see how the install goes.  I bought two just in case - or for the next bike.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 08, 2016, 18:17:49
And finally got some blasting done in the shop today - all the parts left to be able to build up a rolling chassis.  The next big milestone...
Title: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 16, 2016, 18:12:56
Yesterday I heated the swingarm and removed the plastic bushings for powdercoating and prepped the metal bushing caps for a coat of paint.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160616/73e1768df0234d74f0cf2214f11ad599.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160616/9446600379441a39161906279e240b7f.jpg)

Title: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 16, 2016, 18:14:34
And then did the painting today (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160616/15c516f5cf3ad65ae21e3d7dd86727d9.jpg)

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 19, 2016, 15:18:53
Some good things and some bad things this weekend. 

It was good to start assembling things again - feeling like I'm on the other side of the process now.  I put the triple tree in place then cleaned a space to be able to slot the engine back into the frame with the swingarm.

It was bad to reassemble the swingarm with bushings etc and break them while re-installing them.  I was trying to be careful - hitting them back in with a block of wood and rubber mallet.  I must have hit them slightly off centre and smashed one of the flanges off.  Then I checked the manual and it says to press them back into place (I dont have a damn press!) rather than hitting them into place as you may break them.  Duh!  Crappy plastic ones.  I have ordered new ones already and have ordered double - so I can measure them up and investigate getting some bronze ones made up down the track - a very common mod to XS650s and SR500s etc.  Next time I reinstall these plastic ones I'll use some ply wood and a ratchet clamp or something - some kind of makeshift press.

I did take a lot of photos at various stages of disassembling the bike so I have a lot of reference material for putting it back together.  But its still really nice to have a print out of exploded drawings of the entire bike with part numbers etc when doing so.  I put a pdf together a while back just for this purpose: http://media.wix.com/ugd/e2462d_af1674218cca49e1abb72ad99c96d5b6.pdf  Now you can all print a copy  ;D  Don't know how that works with copyright but I have included the link where the pics etc were taken.  Plus, I highly recommend buying stuff there - always got stock, easy to find stuff and real good shipping!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 19, 2016, 15:26:07
While we're on the topic of blunders, I thought I would share another one I had a few weeks ago...

When I had the riser bars made up I told the fab shop that I would have no problem tapping the M6 bosses myself - to save them the time/labour and me the money.  I managed to do 3 of them without too much hassle, although it was quite time consuming.  I royally muffed the 4th one though as Murphy's Law would have it.

I must have been tapping the hole slightly off centre or at a slight angle - probably more likely.  Anyway, the tap got stuck and broke off in the hole.  Then when trying to remove it - with all sorts of stupid ideas (including the oxy torch), this happened - see attached.  Now I'm embarrassed to go back to the guy who made them and show him what I've done to his nice hand work! Hahaha  ;D  I rekon he'll be able to fix them though - just grind back the wrecked boss and weld on another.  Perhaps I'll ask him to tap the hole even too  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: teazer on Jun 19, 2016, 18:03:27
As they say, stuff happens.  The trick is to machine the cross tubes in one piece each and drill and tap them in the lathe.  Then weld each tube in place and when it's cooled, slit it into two halves.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jun 20, 2016, 01:49:27
Are you trying to tap in one swing, or are you turning the tap a few turns, then backing out a few turns plus using drill and tap oil while you do it?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 20, 2016, 03:14:43
Yeah, ideally, these would have been tapped in a lathe like you say!  Although in my experience, threads seem to get a lot weaker and even distorted through the welding process from the exposure to heat - sometimes even the peaks of the threads can melt away a little.  Does that happen to others or is it just me?

Yep, used thread cutting paste and backed out every time the load on the tap got too much.  It was just because I tapped in crooked I think - so one side of the hole loaded up waay too much (possibly even deeper than the cutter could cut!).

On another note, I have re-designed these bars so that they can be more universal - using adapters they will be able to fit bars from 32mm - 36mm in diameter.  I have also 'raised the rise' so that when attached below the top yoke, they come up to just above level with the top of the tree - like a cool alternative to a flat bar in terms of ergonomics/riding position whilst having the clip-on 'look'.  I have been pricing them up from a tooling/jig set up perspective and piece price.  Really hoping to get something competitive and get them into production  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jun 21, 2016, 03:58:10
that should have never just flat fractured in half like that i measn there is something wrong with the metal there
it should have broken any tap longer before it even distorted the hole
but steel does not snap like that from a tap being crooked you got issues with the metal
if it snaps like that it should be too hard to even scratch with a file ,see
it would need to be in a highly hardened heat treated state without any after heat treatment normalizing to be that brittle
what im saying is
it was already fractured from the weld, pal ,you just helped it out and good thing to, those need to go to scrap
do not use them 
what did they use for stock ? what was the source of material ?
there is a very common grade of steel that is popular for machined parts called stressproof us machinists love it cause it has a bit of lead innit and turns the most beautifol blue hot curlies and it is not sticky machines up smooth
but the lead contentr makes it a no no for any welding, i would bet dollars they used a lead containing free machining steel, but they should have known
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Jun 21, 2016, 08:42:06
Got a little impatient and welded the nugget on then  quenched it may bee?? that el make it had as a morning boner  :o
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 22, 2016, 04:26:54
You got me! Thats what i meant with 'trying to remove it with all sorts of stupid ideas (including the oxy torch)' . So yeah, my stupidity 100%. Probably made these unsafe to use now - i've f*kd the temper etc. Now they'll be too brittle in that critical area. Only up side is that i have some new prototypes being made up as we speak... Higher rise, more universal etc
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jun 22, 2016, 05:22:14
what was the metal sourced from ?the metal is the problem not you
are you saying you quenched that thing in water when it was bright red orangis hot ?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Jun 22, 2016, 18:07:47
You got me! Thats what i meant with 'trying to remove it with all sorts of stupid ideas (including the oxy torch)' . So yeah, my stupidity 100%. Probably made these unsafe to use now - i've f*kd the temper etc. Now they'll be too brittle in that critical area. Only up side is that i have some new prototypes being made up as we speak... Higher rise, more universal etc

I try to drill and tap holes as early in the fabrication process as possible that way if you duff one of those bosses you can just toss it, instead of tossing the whole assembly.
I agree with XB that it may be a material issue. If done correctly steel is very forgiving. welding should not effect the threads unless spatter gets on them, or if its a very long hole and warpage occurs.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jun 22, 2016, 21:07:56
a coupler nut works nicely for that type of fabrication its just a long ass nut ready made
 drill out 1/2 of it ,carve a deep radius into it to fit and then just plain ole oxy acetylene brazing is best
no need for welding
finally cut the slot ,you can do a pretty darn straight precision slot ,wide enough ,with 3 hacksaw blades at once
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 26, 2016, 11:12:43
Thanks for the tips.  I actually thought the steel was too hard from the welding process so I thought I would try and soften it to remove the tap.  So I heated it up cherry red and dunked it in dry sand to slow the cooling process - I had read that that is a way to remove some hardness.  I am pretty clueless with this stuff.  It obviously didn't work.

Now I have the chance to pick you metallurgists brains for the future handle bars...  How do these grades of metals sound for the bars (I myself have no idea):

1. DC01; HC180 for the 22mm x 2mm thick bar section

2. S195T EN10255 for the clamp-on section

Both tubes have seems.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jun 26, 2016, 11:41:26
I thought I would try and soften it to remove the tap.  So I heated it up cherry red and dunked it in dry sand to slow the cooling process
Wait, you did this with the tap in the hole?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 28, 2016, 06:15:30
Yep!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 28, 2016, 17:33:05
Got these in the mail today.  Will be making another attempt at putting a rolling chassis together this weekend :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 04, 2016, 03:15:46
Now I have the chance to pick you metallurgists brains for the future handle bars...  How do these grades of metals sound for the bars (I myself have no idea):

1. DC01; HC180 for the 22mm x 2mm thick bar section

2. S195T EN10255 for the clamp-on section

Both tubes have seems.

What happen to all the experts???  Anyone?  I'm gonna contact an old colleague of mine who is a wizz with this stuff but does anyone here know about the actual specs of these metals?  Or are there different US and European standards?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 04, 2016, 03:30:39
Got a bit done over the weekend.  Managed to properly insert the new swing arm bushes with my 'press'.  Just a couple of bits of ply and a screw style clamp.  Pretty rough but worked a treat  ;D

Then got on to installing the swing arm into the frame.  I checked and double checked everything from reference photos I had, photos of spare parts I found online AND the exploded parts diagram.  Nothing was/is missing, yet I still end up with the gap here on the left side of the frame.  It looks like something is missing but it is not.  I double checked with my other SR and it is the same.  The gap closed a little once I torqued up the bolt but still... Just wondering, has anyone else had/noticed this?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 04, 2016, 03:38:13
Then I got the rest of the engine brackets in placed and torqued them up and assembled the front and rear wheels - with new lock washers.  These two torque wrenchs got some good use this weekend.  Some people dont think they are necessary but I am always surprised by how little or how much torque is specified for certain bolts, so for me, its worth doing it to spec than going from 'feeling'.  Obviously, many bolts are common sense and the spark plug for example I have torqued up so many times I have a decent enough feel for that that I dont use the torque wrench anymore.  But these bolts on the cush drive to hold the sprocket for example, they only had 21.7ft/lb spec'd, which didn't feel like much at all.  I would have easily done them tighter without it.  No wonder a couple of them were stripped on the other SR I have - someone was over enthusiastic when tightening them  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 04, 2016, 11:05:39
Swing arms invariably need shims.  Very often, the frame will seem too wide (or too narrow) for the arm, but will be drawn together by the swing arm pivot bolt.  The shims are needed because the span of the internal bushings has to be slightly wider than the span of the swingarm (with outside bushings) so it does not get clamped to the frame when the pivot bolt is tightened.  The shims are needed to take up whatever slack is left.  These shims are invariably not shown on the parts exploded view even though they are invariably included in the factory assembly.  You should shim to zero lash.  I trial assemble with light oil or WD40 to get the fit right (takes a couple of trial and errors) and then final assemble with wheel bearing grease.  This will result in a VERY tight fit but will almost immediately loosen up to perfect after a few miles.  The arm should just fall of its own weight when correct.  Looser than that will be needlessly sloppy.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jul 04, 2016, 15:08:52
Swing arms invariably need shims.  Very often, the frame will seem too wide (or too narrow) for the arm, but will be drawn together by the swing arm pivot bolt.  The shims are needed because the span of the internal bushings has to be slightly wider than the span of the swingarm (with outside bushings) so it does not get clamped to the frame when the pivot bolt is tightened.  The shims are needed to take up whatever slack is left.  These shims are invariably not shown on the parts exploded view even though they are invariably included in the factory assembly.  You should shim to zero lash.  I trial assemble with light oil or WD40 to get the fit right (takes a couple of trial and errors) and then final assemble with wheel bearing grease.  This will result in a VERY tight fit but will almost immediately loosen up to perfect after a few miles.  The arm should just fall of its own weight when correct.  Looser than that will be needlessly sloppy.

indeed yes you have learned so much from just reading my posts  :D except for those made up words you seem to try to confuse me with those but not this time
anyway i looked at partzilla the sr250 has an unusual lasup one outer one inner thrust both shimable
but yeah unusual the one is inbored the other outbord
i tried wrapping my brain around why they dun that,that way....got a splitting headache and thatt was that
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 04, 2016, 17:02:47
Thanks for the input.  Well I found the exploded quite confusing as well.  I am just surprised I didn't notice this when I took it apart and any photos I have of that area before I did show a little gap...

Anyway, the swing arms metal bushings are tight against the frame and the engine mounts - meaning that the swing arm rotates freely (but not too freely  ;)) around them.  It feels proper and there is no play so I'm gonna roll with it.  There was also an oil seal there so nothing is going to come in or out I think.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 05, 2016, 03:05:47
Just went back to the first post of this thread and realised I've been working on this bike for just over a year!  Damn, things always take longer than expected.  Feels good to be on the re-assembly side of the build though  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on Jul 05, 2016, 12:29:07
 Congrats on longevity. Keep up the work you're almost there.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 05, 2016, 13:25:14
indeed yes you have learned so much from just reading my posts  :D except for those made up words you seem to try to confuse me with those but not this time.
Well, you have to learn somewhere!  Constant exposure always yields a certain degree of contamination!  I see my erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity is striking a nerve.  In the future I shall try to restrain my sesquipedalian habits and keep my garralous tendencies to a minimum.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 06, 2016, 05:32:19
I got there!  Rolling chassis  8)  While I was at it I figured I would do some checks of the chassis set up to make sure I'm not building a death machine...  I was a bit concerned that with all the changes to wheel size, suspension lengths/lowering etc that things would be out of wack - and now is the time to correct it if so.

I checked the workshop manual and got some specs, then did my own calculations based on some photos and measurements from the bike itself.  The attached image is what I came up with. 

Now, with very little knowledge or experience with this myself, I had to read up on a lot of it.  It all makes sense to me but what I wanted was some concrete numbers from real world examples/production bikes to compare with so that I know I'm in the ball park/safe.  Then I found a sweet technical article of the Yamaha website that listed caster/rake and trail dimensions for different bikes from their 2006 line up - see screen shots.

The SR in stock trim leans toward to cruiser side of geometry - what I thought would be the case.  The set up I have now leans towards street/sport-touring but not too extreme to be super-sport.  Basically, I think for the kind of riding I do and the speeds this humble mule will go, I'm super safe! 

Good reference material here for anyone else modifying an SR and making similar changes to chassis/wheels/suspension/ride heights  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jul 06, 2016, 08:18:02
why did you drop the front ? that is not the way to start out, that is at the potentially most squirrily setting
a wise one would do some testing with them back where they belong if you find the steering too lazy and not responsive by all means pull them up a bit ,dropping the front,10mm at a time is a good rule of thumb
all the bikes you have listed use a factory installed steering damper there is a reason for that
but i dont understand why you drop it before you even test ride ? there are other factors besides rake and trail itself that factor into handling changes when rake and trail is changed ,weight distrubution \for one
you cannot use a modern bike with completely different type of frame radial tires etc as A BENCHMARK
dont EVEN tell me you like the look of the dropped front end because NOBODY will see the difference anything at all like you think you do

on another note was wondering if you measured your bike with suspension compressed slightly or topped out ?
and on a level surface if you bubbled the rake ?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jul 06, 2016, 08:20:46
Well, you have to learn somewhere!  Constant exposure always yields a certain degree of contamination!  I see my erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity is striking a nerve.  In the future I shall try to restrain my sesquipedalian habits and keep my garralous tendencies to a minimum.
ENGLISH !! DO YOU SPEAK IT !??! SAY sesquipedalian ONE MORE TIME  I DARE YOU


 :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2016, 06:53:36
You're right xb, I would be being naive if I thought that handling characteristics were defined by rake and trail alone.  I guess I'll just have to test the set up.  This was mainly a check to make sure I wasn't doing anything radical/crazy.  Who knows, it still might be, but it still gave me a little comfort to see that my trail was not less than 100mm and rake was not too tight either.  Measurements were made with suspension topped out.  Was that stupid?  How do the manufacturer's do it?  Btw, do you have a baseline suggestion?

If you go back several pages in the build you'll see that the special 'above yoke' clipons I designed clamp to the stanchions above the the top clamp.  This is the look I want.  If things are a bit hairy, I'll got up in wheel size again rather than changing the handle bar design.  That should get some trail back.

I strongly disagree with you about the ride height and the level/'the line' of the bike.  But that's down to personal taste  ;)

all the bikes you have listed use a factory installed steering damper there is a reason for that

Source?  Not because I dont believe you, I would just like to know how you find specific information about each bike for my own reference/research in the future.  Or do you have this kind of stuff dedicated to memory?  Savant?  Jokes Haha
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2016, 07:07:52
On another note, a delivery came today, yay!

Spread across a few boxes were the rear frame loop kits I designed for these SR's - see attached.  They look mint, really happy with them.  I designed them so that anyone can install them - no welding required.  Although welding would still be an option if so desired.  The metal rods fit right into the rear of the stock frame and the with two holes you can bolt it in place.  And of course, it matches the seat I designed  :D  The welded metal tab in the middle is in case anyone wants to bolt up a different fender or tail light bracket if they were going to eliminate the fender all together.

I'll chuck these up on the webshop in a while.  I already sold the first two sample prototypes I got back in February and the two blokes I sold them too were really stoked with the quality and the look it gave their bike - really cleans up the back end.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2016, 07:17:28
Also, in one of the boxes was the first off tool sample of the aluminium front fender I designed.  It is designed for the SR 250 first, but I also designed it to be as universal as possible.  The curvature and the width of it means it can fit many different wheel sizes.  Now I have the challenge of designing some universal brackets for it.  On the SR it can bolt right up to the fork brace I designed.  In the photo you can see the development stages it went through - from 3D printed plastic prototype, to hand made sample, to final tooling sample (yes, I paid for special tooling to be made to make it!).

It is made is a two stage process - shape stamped out them formed in a two piece press form.  I really wanted a super clean guard without any flanges or beads (usually added for strength and rigidity to thin sheet guards), so I specified 3mm thick sheet to gain back the strength.  Now its plenty strong and perhaps a tad on the heavy side.  I'm going to get a sample made in 2mm thick and compare the two.  If it is strong enough in 2mm and lighter I'll go with that, if not, 3mm it is.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2016, 07:19:22
Congrats on longevity. Keep up the work you're almost there.

Thanks man!  Lots of distractions and waves of motivation/lack of motivation along the way!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on Jul 08, 2016, 10:35:15
Thanks man!  Lots of distractions and waves of motivation/lack of motivation along the way!

   That's part of the deal man.. All of my builds seem to be like that. I am hoping to get some good wrench time in this weekend. Cheers.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 3DogNate on Jul 08, 2016, 10:36:19
I just flipped through the entire build thread.... Crazy cool stuff. Love it. Keep going I need regular updates. Subscribed.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 13, 2016, 03:52:50
Thanks dudes.

I had time yesterday to install the new carb slide diaphragm from JBM Industries.  What an awesome idea/solution they came up with.  Installation was a piece of piss and saved over $100usd!  (can buy original from online parts stores for around $140, bought the JBM one for $20!).  Mostly because the original NOS ones are an assembly, not a separate diaphragm. 

The existing diaphragm just needs to be carefully clipped away, then the thick boot of the JBM one takes its place and fills the gap perfectly and holds there really nicely.  I have seen quite a few solutions for people replacing these with other ones from other companies and checked the videos on youtube - they all seemed very complicated.  Not this one.  If I wanted to be more careful I would have removed the jet needle as well but I managed to avoid bumping it. 

The hole in the slide should be in line with the carb throat and be on the engine side, then you pain a dot so you dont forget to install it that way every time.  As recommended, I sanded down the diaphragm sealing lip on the carb as well to remove any possible burrs that could damage the new one.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 15, 2016, 04:12:33
Damn shoddy wiring in the tail light gave out so I had to re solder one of the wires back to the board...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 23, 2016, 14:43:04
I took Zap's advice and installed a grommet in the tail guard for the tail light wires to go through - to avoid any chaffing and possible shorts!  Got a sweet set for cheap from Biltema  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 23, 2016, 14:46:14
Also decided the position of the guard and drilled the mounting holes using a paper template to find center!

I have seen thin aluminium guards crack and split under vibration if they are not isolated.  I am hoping that because this guard is substantially thicker than most, it wont be a problem.  But I'll test spacing it from the fork brace with some o-rings and see how that goes - if it helps damp any vibes.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 23, 2016, 21:52:10
Likely that will help only very little.  Aluminum is rather dreadful for fatigue cracking- no endurance limit which means if you keep shaking it, eventually it will fail so you design around some threshold that you never expect to see.  You can get some very substantial benefit though if you actually rubber mount it - as in rubber isolate it.  This would mean drilling large enough holes in the fender to install some grommets.  then you will need some sleeves just a little shorter than the grommet.  Put a washer on each side and bolt it on.  This will totally isolate the fender from any contact with its mount except through the shock absorbing rubber grommet. It is not an absolute cure, but the accelerations will be drastically reduced due to vibration and the aluminum part should last a very great deal longer.  Here is an example of a mounting plate I built a while back.  You can see the various parts that make up the rubber isolation mount.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jul 23, 2016, 23:33:30
Vibration will be the least of your issues on that fender.  Bigger issues will be mounting with two holes in the center of the fender parallel with tire.  You'd be better with 4 holes, or even 3.  Mounting to a sub frame would be a better solution if you're concerned about fatigue-either above the fender or below it.  It could be a plastic mount like for a plastic dirt bike fender or metal like a fiberglass or plastic fender is often mounted. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 24, 2016, 12:08:01
Vibration will be the least of your issues on that fender.  Bigger issues will be mounting with two holes in the center of the fender parallel with tire.  You'd be better with 4 holes, or even 3.  Mounting to a sub frame would be a better solution if you're concerned about fatigue-either above the fender or below it.  It could be a plastic mount like for a plastic dirt bike fender or metal like a fiberglass or plastic fender is often mounted.
Indeed.  Even though it is fairly small (really like how well it looks to be fitting - even a slight miss match seems to jump out to my eye on so many otherwise nice bikes)it would be good to try to spread the mounting points out farther from each other and in two planes as well (so at least three mounting points).  Really like Deviant's suggestion of a plastic sub-mount which would greatly absorb energy transferred to the fender, but it looks like you will be hard pressed to fit anything else in there.  Maybe try 3 or 4 mounts spaced as wide as you can and see if it lasts acceptably long.  Front fenders seem to not get too much abuse from vibration (higher frequency like from engine rpm is a lot worse than road vibration in the main) but do get a lot more shock and impact loads that try to bend the fender around the mounting points which is why thin light fenders usually have struts unless made of something that can take the bending forces and spring back like plastic.  Aluminum is pretty poor for this except for it being light, and your fender is short which will help a lot. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 26, 2016, 03:16:45
Thanks for the tips guys.  I like jp's idea of completely isolating it with rubber grommets and spacers.  After all, I did just buy a whole set of grommets ;)

Would it help if I fastened a brace/bracket underneath the fender to spread the load a little further than the two mounting holes?  As mounting from any other point is not possible/not wanted.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 26, 2016, 11:15:27
It could be made to help a lot, but no telling if it is actually needed.  If I thought something like that was necessary, I would likely construct it like having another much shorter fender form-fitted inside the one that shows.  Something like half its total length serving as a doubler and stiffener for the center half where it bots on.  You could hold the edges back to where the doubler didn't show and glue the two together with some flexible adhesive.  Then just mount it up with grommets and sleeves to rubber isolate it.  If the mounting holes alone are the main concern, you could do the same thing with a much smaller doubler only a little larger than the fork brace you are mounting to.  You might even get away with just the two fasteners you have now though as previously noted the stability rocking side to side could be an issue.  If the mounts are robust enough this may not be a problem.  In any case, any doubler inside the fender needs the edges relieved with a radius so as not to place an edge load from the doubler against the underside of the fender and create a stress riser there.  I suggest the glue so dirt and moisture do not get in between the two parts and cause corrosion failure.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jul 26, 2016, 13:55:08
Something also to consider, in addition to vibration or rocking, is road debris.  I fabricated my cb750 fender to have minimum clearance over the tire.  I'm running a brace/sub-frame under the fender with four mounting points for the forks (2 on each side) and four riveted mounting points for the fender to the brace.  I have an Avon Roadhandler tire up front that doesn't have very aggressive tread.  I rarely, if ever, go for a ride where at some point a rock or some type of debris isn't clanging through the fender between it and the tire.  It will take something significant to move my fender because the brace is pillaged from a stock unit and has to be at least 2 to 3mm thick. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jul 26, 2016, 15:57:36
It could be made to help a lot, but no telling if it is actually needed.  If I thought something like that was necessary, I would likely construct it like having another much shorter fender form-fitted inside the one that shows.  Something like half its total length serving as a doubler and stiffener for the center half where it bots on.  You could hold the edges back to where the doubler didn't show and glue the two together with some flexible adhesive.  Then just mount it up with grommets and sleeves to rubber isolate it.  If the mounting holes alone are the main concern, you could do the same thing with a much smaller doubler only a little larger than the fork brace you are mounting to.  You might even get away with just the two fasteners you have now though as previously noted the stability rocking side to side could be an issue.  If the mounts are robust enough this may not be a problem.  In any case, any doubler inside the fender needs the edges relieved with a radius so as not to place an edge load from the doubler against the underside of the fender and create a stress riser there.  I suggest the glue so dirt and moisture do not get in between the two parts and cause corrosion failure.

mmmmm glue sniff sniff
yep and sikaflex polyurethane adheasive is the shit
i used it when i reskinned a 40ft eagle motor coach after i got done making it 9 inches taller and 10 wider that is
and the sikaflex is all they use in that industry as well as boat building 
i think you gotta go to sweden to get it though too bad
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 26, 2016, 16:32:22
yep and sikaflex polyurethane adheasive is the shit

They make a zillion products so a bit of research may be needed to get the right thing. should not be too bad to find it - I think it is a USA product.  Absolutely great stuff!  Most polyurethanes are damn good - too good in fact as usually you can NEVER separate the parts again without destroying them.  Locktite PL premium construction adhesive is a pretty good polyurethane and is readily available at home centers.  It will say "3X the strength" on the tube.  Very poor shelf like once opened (like all polyurethanes) so plan to throw away what you don't use but it is cheap.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jul 26, 2016, 17:13:39
G/Flex.  It's a West System product and it's the shit. 

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/g-flex-epoxy/ (http://www.westsystem.com/ss/g-flex-epoxy/)

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jul 26, 2016, 17:32:14
G/Flex.  It's a West System product and it's the shit. 

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/g-flex-epoxy/ (http://www.westsystem.com/ss/g-flex-epoxy/)

oh yeah ive heard of it this stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofMwxrWDUmQ
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 26, 2016, 18:52:50
Haha . . .Actually, that likely would work excellently!  No telling how long it would last, but despite the hokey commercial, it does seem to have all the characteristics you would want to do the job.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Jul 26, 2016, 18:58:00
Haha . . .Actually, that likely would work excellently!  No telling how long it would last, but despite the hokey commercial, it does seem to have all the characteristics you would want to do the job.
time to draw back the curtain mobie, admit it, that is you slinging glue on tv
 at your digs, the ex gaitor farm, in flo-rid-duh
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 26, 2016, 19:39:40
wadya mean EX gator?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 27, 2016, 03:18:39
More good tips.  Cheers
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 27, 2016, 03:23:01
Thought I'd share this pic sent in to me by a customer.  He was willing to try and fit the Jadus header to an XT250 of the same SR production years so I offered him free shipping and return if it didn't.  But it fit!  Looks wicked.  Only downside, he had to remove the bash plate I think.  Can't wait to see how his build turns out  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 03, 2016, 08:03:37
Sweet, found these grommets fit these spacers I had lying around that are made for M6 bolts.  Will install these on the guard like jpmobius suggested :)

Also bought some new mirrors for the bike.  Decided I didn't like the Harley ones after all.  These ones have nice proportions and fit with the rest of the design of the bike  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 03, 2016, 08:11:59
I wonder if other people have had this issue? When you upgrade the rear shocks on an SR250, they often have wider springs or at least springs that extend all the way to the eye/mounting point of the shock - unlike the thin stock ones.  This causes interference with the chain guard and even worse, the chain itself.  Therefor, the new suspension needs to be spaced off the frame a little.  Fine, add a couple of washers right?  Well, you can do that but this leaves the eye of the suspension hanging unsupported over a fair amount of the threaded section of the mounting bolt on the swingarm/frame.

So I designed up some spacers and had them made up.  Now there is a comfortable amount of clearance and the eye of the shock is supported its entire length because there is another spacer just for that purpose :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 03, 2016, 08:12:51
Oh yeah, new sprockets and chain too  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 03, 2016, 10:41:44
I wonder if other people have had this issue?
The Progressive Suspension shocks I used (originally for a XS650) fit fine with no chain interference, but it did raise the rear slightly so that the rear wheel barely clears the ground when on the center stand. I did have chain guard interference on my Kawasaki KZ440 when I put KZ550 shocks on - ended up cutting out a little bit of the chain guard to clear.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 03, 2016, 13:41:25
The Progressive Suspension shocks I used (originally for a XS650) fit fine with no chain interference, but it did raise the rear slightly so that the rear wheel barely clears the ground when on the center stand. I did have chain guard interference on my Kawasaki KZ440 when I put KZ550 shocks on - ended up cutting out a little bit of the chain guard to clear.
you must be a huge fat person putting the same shocks on a 200lb lighter bike
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 03, 2016, 22:15:12
you must be a huge fat person putting the same shocks on a 200lb lighter bike
Yep. Good thing that the OEM shocks (built back in the '80s) work for you, so you must be some skinny assed little fart! BTW the maximum load limit (on the rear tire) is 456lb and basic weight is 154lb for a load of 302lb - way less than I weigh with gear.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 30, 2016, 11:42:43
Shit, its been a month since posting anything!  Lost of excuses.  Best one, I have been working on this distraction...

Will come back to this build this week hopefully  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Aug 30, 2016, 15:15:50
I know that you had been experimenting with 3-D printed side covers some time ago, but I've seen a recent trend with other custom bike builders that you might want to consider - custom leather bags to fit the triangle area. Like here: http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2016/08/29/snipe-yamaha-sr400-old-empire-motorcycles.html
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 30, 2016, 23:13:09
I know that you had been experimenting with 3-D printed side covers some time ago, but I've seen a recent trend with other custom bike builders that you might want to consider - custom leather bags to fit the triangle area. Like here: http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2016/08/29/snipe-yamaha-sr400-old-empire-motorcycles.html
you gotta love that no more open triangle  !! bwaaahhhaaa !!!
think of the millions of hapless spodes  who have ruined a motorcycle and its tune with the stupidity of pods just to get that dumb as dirt  open look,now to have a reversing trend eliminating the open tyriangle
priceless  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Aug 30, 2016, 23:21:52
The mood ring will return
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 30, 2016, 23:59:45
The mood ring will return
nothin' from nothin' ain't nothin' !!!  :-[
https://youtu.be/LDehYXKI31g (https://youtu.be/LDehYXKI31g)

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 31, 2016, 05:09:21
I know that you had been experimenting with 3-D printed side covers some time ago, but I've seen a recent trend with other custom bike builders that you might want to consider - custom leather bags to fit the triangle area. Like here: http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2016/08/29/snipe-yamaha-sr400-old-empire-motorcycles.html

I have been keeping an eye on some of these that have been coming out.  Some are pretty cool.  Very much a personal taste thing though.  I would like them on some builds but not on others.  Plenty of nice leather workers here in Sweden at the moment though if I wanted to do a collaboration!  Anyone?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 31, 2016, 05:11:18
you gotta love that no more open triangle  !! bwaaahhhaaa !!!
think of the millions of hapless spodes  who have ruined a motorcycle and its tune with the stupidity of pods just to get that dumb as dirt  open look,now to have a reversing trend eliminating the open tyriangle
priceless  ;D

I had a feeling it was going to be a fad.  It may make sense on some race bikes, but for the street, a little less practical.  In saying that, the 3rd harmonic intake bell mouth I designed will require the removal of the air box and relocation of the battery anyway.  Ha!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 08, 2016, 05:35:40
Did some blasting yesterday in preparation for some powered coating  :D

What happens to rubber when you blast it?  It looks like new again!  I'm just going to mask that up and paint the metal with some tough car rim paint or brake calliper paint.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 08, 2016, 05:37:35
I got real stoked to get these pictures from a customer in Spain yesterday.  He's not quite finished but I think his bike looks amazing - really nice subtle stuff with an awesome overall look.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 09, 2016, 05:24:23
I found a horn I had lying around from an old scooter that I really liked - much better than the big stock one and I like it better than all the aftermarket ones I have seen online as well.  I know right, wtf, now I'm thinking about what the horn looks like!  Who gives a!  Well, it sits up front there just under the headlight so I was either going to re-locate it out of site, or get a nicer looking one.  This was my solution  :D

I just modified the bracket from the stock one to fit the new one and now it fits nicely.

Can't help but think the engineers at Yamaha were having a laugh when they designed this particular bracket!  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 09, 2016, 05:25:54
I scuffed up the surface of it and painted it matte black I love it.

I also masked up the footrests and sprayed them with the same paint.  Love them now as well!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 10, 2016, 09:56:27
I got the spacers trimmed up for rubber mounting the guard and powder coated the other parts I have been meaning to.

I am not happy with the finish though.  The only things that came up alrite were the rear guard and the handle bars.  Which were both steel, while the other parts that came up poorly were aluminium.  Hmmm. probably not a coincidence.  Must be something in my prep.  I think I'll start preheating before cleaning (I know you're supposed too!).

But I bought some 1000grit sand paper and sanded back the surface and then bombed them with some decent quality spray.  Now just waiting for them to dry but they look waaay better.  The paint finish matched nicely to the other parts too  ;D

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Sep 10, 2016, 12:35:56
Looks great!  Are you using the stock guards?


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=89466)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 11, 2016, 04:56:26
Stock rear guard - I really like it.

Custom front guard that I actually modelled up, prototyped and then paid for some tooling to be made to stamp out the shape and press them up  ;D 

Check out the most recent sample I just got from my supplier - a polished version I will offer.  I just approved this sample so the factory is working on the first production run now.  They will run for around 60usd for an unfinished one (to either paint or sand to give 'brushed look') and 75usd for a polished one.  The idea is that it is as universal as possible - it looks good with tyres from 16'' to 18'' and can be used up front and even out back as a stubby rear fender.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 11, 2016, 08:25:18
I want one! Perfect idea and the market will respond. The need for quality over quantity is here man, don't stumble and cheapen your brand and you will do well.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Sep 11, 2016, 12:04:59
Nice!  May need to add one of those to the list.  I assume that will bolt up to the fork brace without issue?


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=89466)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 12, 2016, 03:59:29
The need for quality over quantity is here man, don't stumble and cheapen your brand and you will do well.

Thanks for the vote of confidence man.  I whole heartily agree.  I'm tired of junk stuff!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 12, 2016, 04:01:01
Nice!  May need to add one of those to the list.  I assume that will bolt up to the fork brace without issue?

Yeah thats the plan, although you would need to mark out and drill your own holes depending on where you want to position it - 2-ocklock, 3-ocklock etc  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 12, 2016, 06:21:46
Now that testing is complete on the other bike, the results showed best power and torque with the medium length intake I designed.  This means there's no room in the triangle for the battery where I had originally intended it to go. 

Now the plan is to make up a special bracket to house the battery and hold the starter relay that goes behind the engine and under the swing arm.  I made up a quick prototype in thin aluminium sheet then started modelling one up in 3D.  I'll make a few prototypes to perfect it then cut it out of thick stainless plate I think.  I reckon this will be pretty cool!  Almost completely out of site  ;)

Don't worry, I still plan on having side covers  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 12, 2016, 06:27:40
Im starting to put more and more things back on the bike which is exciting.  Most things have either been re-plated or painted, but I don't have this option with the only two plastic items that are going back on - the headlight bucket and the inner rear guard. 

They are not in bad condition by any means, but it would be nice to make them look a bit newer.  Any tips for how to do this?  I have heard shoe polish can work?  Is this true?  Otherwise a car polish with a little black colour pigment in it?  I really don't want to paint them, that would be last resort.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Sep 12, 2016, 15:05:10
Nor sure how you want your plastic pieces to look when completed, but I would just clean up the rear inner fender and put a good coating of wax on it. The headlight bucket - if it is not scratched too bad you can clean it up and spray it with a wheel clear coat (gloss or matte) and give it a coat of wax too. If you decide to paint, go with Krylon Fusion or use an adhesion promoter prior to the final color you want (hint - if you are going to a lighter color use flat white first).
Title: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Sep 12, 2016, 16:54:13
Heat-gun might work depending on what type of plastic it's made of. Old trick that works on Volvos bumpers anyway. Just don't heat it to much. You just what to "sweat" it. Acetone can make small scratches "disappear" from plastic but it can also make it milky.

Personally I would try to make something out of aluminum or stainless.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Sep 12, 2016, 19:12:12
Hit that rear inner fender with a good and wet rag full of acetone no real rubbing just get it clean then wipe it fast it will gloss up nice
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Sep 12, 2016, 22:27:11
Hit that rear inner fender with a good and wet rag full of acetone no real rubbing just get it clean then wipe it fast it will gloss up nice

This works great on ABS. I have had mixed results on other plastics. I have used a detailing buffer  and wax and gotten good results as well
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: advCo on Sep 13, 2016, 03:38:22
Try Pledge or an equivalent household furniture polish on the plastic. I have had good results on inner fenders with the stuff


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=89466)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 13, 2016, 04:23:53
Thanks for all the awesome suggestions!  I will try a few of the methods on a spare guard I have to see which finish I like the best.

Cheers
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 16, 2016, 06:37:58
The inner guard cleaned up fine without any thing other than soapy water.  But the headlight bucket was different because of its exposure to the sun/UV I guess.  It was faded and ugly in the exposed areas - like a dull brownish colour.

Experiments on the spare guard didn't really prove anything so I tried a couple of methods on the other SR's headlight bucket - that one is faded as hell.

In the middle taped off section is how it is/was, then to the right in the photo has had some acetone wiped over it then off, then slightly rubbed out with a clean rag.  Then to the left was an attempt to 'sweat' the plastic with a heat gun.  Although this method had a good affect on the unfaded areas, in the other areas (where is was most brown) it seemed to lift out impurities in the plastic instead.  It actually gave quite an even matte look but that was not quite what I was after.

I figured I would go with the acetone method thinking that it would be spot on with two or three applications and a bit of polish.  But I tried one more method first, and that was to sand away the discolouration with some 1000 grit wet and dry sand paper then polish it back with coloured car polish and a rag.  This worked a treat so I went with that on the bucket to be used.  There was a bit of elbow grease involved but it wouldn't have taken longer than half an hour.  It was just the top section of it anyways.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 16, 2016, 06:42:13
Then it was on to some electrical stuff - adapting the speedo to the stock wire harness.  I like to just splice the stock plug and wires into the new one - soldering, heat shrinking then taping.

I also modded the stock inanition switch so that the wires come out the locking bolt hole rather than the back of it.  Then lengthened the wires as well because this will sit in its bracket just under the tank.  And lastly, repainted it and sanded the face off the front so it has a brushed look.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 16, 2016, 06:44:38
Upgraded the crappy fuse to an automotive style one too.  This one is probably over kill but it is what they had at Biltema!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 18, 2016, 15:07:56
Some development of the battery tray...  First a rough thin sheet aluminium version made up quick to get some sense of scale and position.  Then a couple of 3D printed prototypes to fine tune the cut out and hole positions and the final flange lengths, then the final 3D printed plastic prototype - two views.  These would be laser cut and bent up out of 3mm steel plate and powder coated in black if the design ever makes it into production.  If enough people are interested?  It is designed for either the AntiGravity or the Ballistic 8 cell (or even the 4 cells if so desired) and so that the starter relay mounts on that tab that sticks up.  The relay can be cable tied in place if the rubber mounts are shot.  It fits both the SR250 Specials and the SR250 Classics (re-released ones) which has a brake lever bracket to clear - hence the cut out. 

I don't have time to wait for a proper prototype to be made so I made one up by hand from 2mm stainless plate.  Its pretty close to the final plastic prototype but is very rough still - being hand made with a vice, hammer and hand drill.  It should come up alrite once its blasted and powder coated.

You can see where it is positioned as well.  Nice mass centralisation haha   ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Sep 19, 2016, 11:10:32
Do you plan to seal off the battery and/or connections in a waterproof enclosure?  That looks like it will get a lot of water down there.  Even it if shorting is never issue, what about the effects of oxidation on connections?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 19, 2016, 15:01:52
I was planning on making a box type enclosure that sits on the bracket but I think I'll skip it for now and just see how it works out.  If necessary, it would be pretty easy to add a simple splash guard there later.  Otherwise I think it will be pretty well protected under there - its just the shit from the tyre.

I worked out how the new position of the relay will work into the wire harness today.  Then I stripped and cleaned the wire harness and re-wrapped it in automotive fabric tape.  I like the look of the stuff.  Don't know how it holds up but we'll find out next riding season!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: magazine on Sep 19, 2016, 22:53:06
I never thought about mounting my battery under the swingarm.  Great idea.  Have you had any experience with the 4 cell batteries? Mine seems to be plenty powerful.  I hope in the long run i made the right decision. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 20, 2016, 06:06:44
I never thought about mounting my battery under the swingarm.  Great idea.  Have you had any experience with the 4 cell batteries? Mine seems to be plenty powerful.  I hope in the long run i made the right decision.

Na, no experience with the 4 cell batteries.  But plenty of sorry experiences with flat batteries and bump starting!  Awesome that the 4 cell is grunty enough.  If it is working for now, it will probably keep working for at least a couple/few seasons - but like all batteries, they lose their life eventually.  There is a lot of easy weight savings there so I would say you made a good choice!  I will probably test one on the next SR I build - more of a cut back racer.  So a 4 cell would be perfect there.

A lot of people install kick-starters on these bikes and I actually have all the components to do so.  But I don't want to.  I have a feeling (I could be wrong) that people who install kick starters on these bikes have not had kickstart bikes before and don't quite appreciate the button.  I have had several kick start bikes and yes, I felt manly and 'connected' to my machine when I kicked it into life, but boy, I got over it.  Especially if its a cold morning and it may on the off chance die at the traffic lights and you're stuck there kicking away like an idiot haha.  They do look cool though, I'll agree on that  ;D  For example the re-release of the W800 (update from the 650) just didn't quite look the same without the kicker  :(
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: magazine on Sep 20, 2016, 11:00:00
Kickstarter would be nice.  My push start button doesn't make a real good connection inside the handlebar mounted housing.  I had to push start in a few public places.  I think ive got it figured out now but it would be nice to kick over. And that w800 was a nice looking bike.   I would like to find one. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Sep 20, 2016, 11:49:52
Yeah.  You can drastically reduce the battery size if you go with a "kick start" only scenario.  The KZ 650's that I built in the past were kick start only and I ended up with a 6aH Lithium type battery.  It sure makes things easy for wiring and of course allows you to remove the starter motor, starter relay and associated "large" conductors.  In fact, one of them had a pooched started clutch assy so I removed it as well....

You're right though, it is a great debate on kick vs. electric start.  IF the bike is well set up and tuned correctly, the kick start should be adequate; but it isn't terribly convenient.  If the bike is NOT tuned well it can be the most frustrating experience of your life.  It's really funny, because most modern dirt bikes have gone electric start; my 2013 KTM 200 2 stroke is e-start even though it is the easiest bike to kick over... sometimes its just easier to hit the button to get it going.  Some don't even have a kicker as an option (weight savings I suppose).

All that being said, I will probably go kick-only on my SR at some point, but need to get to other items on my list first. 

Jadus - I've been searching around to find a consolidated parts list for the swap without success.  The fiche for an 80's XT250 is easy enough to find but I'm still not certain what is "actually" required.  I watched a youtube video about the install and it has some documents attached however they are not in english!  :(  I don't suppose you have a parts list?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 22, 2016, 16:14:02
Very true about the weight loss and electrics simplification with kickstart only.  On some bikes you can even run a large capacitor or battery eliminator kit (SR500s I think).

I have also noticed that lots more trail bikes have been skipping the kickstart entirely!

Hmm, about the kick-start, I also only have some exploders and a parts list - see attached.  But I'm pretty sure thats all the parts listed that are needed!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 22, 2016, 16:20:42
Things are slowly coming together on the bike - especially at the front end.  Now just waiting for a few minor parts to complete that section.  Its really fun putting it all together now that most of the hard work is done.  I'm just gonna take my time with it now because it is so enjoyable!

I decided that to get the side covers spot on in the frame, I will have the stock ones 3D scanned so I have an exact reference point for the mountings for when I re-model them.  Then I'll probably 3D print them and either fibre glass over the top of them or just coat them in fibre reinforced filler. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: magazine on Sep 22, 2016, 17:02:00
Awesome!  Your a pro.  No doubt about that.  Great looking bike. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Sep 23, 2016, 02:25:29
looking good. i like the battery placement
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 27, 2016, 14:34:23
Thanks lads!

Well I got the final few parts blasted and powder coated.  Hopefully no more for this build.  I will strip the paint off the tank and take that to a professional and get him to match the guards.

The hand grips and the guard bolts arrived today too so the front end is complete!  Just chucked the other tank on there for a pic :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Sep 27, 2016, 14:49:28
Hmm, about the kick-start, I also only have some exploders and a parts list - see attached.  But I'm pretty sure thats all the parts listed that are needed!

Thanks for this!  I'm going to keep my eyes open for a ratty XT/TT 250 and watch Ebay as well.  This isn't a priority at the moment, but may work on it over the winter months.

I like the look of the front end with the "lowered" fork (as a result of the clip-ons over the top triple) and the smaller front wheel and wide tire.  It doesn't appear that you have much room to spare between the front tire and fender, but again looks great!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Sep 28, 2016, 03:18:56
Cheers.

Well if you live anywhere near to a wreckers (what do they call them in the states?) it might be worth calling them up and asking if they have any XTs or TTs they are willing to part out, or even sell you the whole engine.  I picked most of the parts up for my set that way.  Then just complimented that with a few extra parts bought from boats.net that were missing - a couple springs and clips I think.

It's good if it's a long term project, then you can really wait for one to pop up!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Sep 28, 2016, 12:19:05
That's my plan exactly!  We have a motorcycle wrecker/ salvage yard in town that I plan to check out to see what they have.  Ideally I will find someone selling an entire bike (XT ot TT) that I can take parts from...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 03, 2016, 13:44:31
That's my plan exactly!  We have a motorcycle wrecker/ salvage yard in town that I plan to check out to see what they have.  Ideally I will find someone selling an entire bike (XT ot TT) that I can take parts from...

Salvage yard!  Thats it  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 05, 2016, 04:31:24
I stripped the tank over the weekend and it really took the whole weekend.  I tried this environmentally friendly stripper and I get the feeling that if it's softer on the environment, it's also softer on the paint.  It tool 4-5 re-applications and a lot of scraping to get it to this stage - and it looks shit.  I kinda wish I had just bought the harsh stuff and worn gloves and a mask, at least the paint would have come off better (I presume?).  I even tried putting a really thick layer on, wrapping it is plastic food wrapping (to air seal it), and left it over night.  This actually helped a lot, but still didn't take it all off...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 05, 2016, 04:35:23
In between coats of stripper I assembled and installed the battery.  Rather than paint the red part of the ballistic battery I decided to tape it.  Hope it lasts!  I think it would last longer than paint that would chip off right away.  It can always be re-done later if needed. 

I used some thin automotive foam double sided assembly tape on it as well to really hold it in place and reduce vibes a tiny, tiny bit.  Then the bracket was bolted in place and battery zip tied down with two massive ones.

Oh yeah, kick stand on too.  Felt good to get it off the jack  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 05, 2016, 04:48:46
Added these to the webshop too  ;D  15% intro price  8)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Oct 05, 2016, 11:17:55
I stripped the tank over the weekend and it really took the whole weekend.

Wow.  What a pain in the ass.  I HATE stripping old paint... As nice it is to have a sexy new paint job it's almost worth just sanding/ filling over the old paint so you don't have to deal with this stuff.  My experience is the same as yours.  The "environmentally friendly" stuff doesn't work well and the stuff that does work is toxic as hell! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 3DogNate on Oct 05, 2016, 15:55:03
Wow.  What a pain in the ass.  I HATE stripping old paint... As nice it is to have a sexy new paint job it's almost worth just sanding/ filling over the old paint so you don't have to deal with this stuff.  My experience is the same as yours.  The "environmentally friendly" stuff doesn't work well and the stuff that does work is toxic as hell!

A coarse grit in a blasting cabinet will prep a tank in no time flat... and leave a good surface for your primer or filler. I'm pretty well done with chemical stripping.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 06, 2016, 06:38:25
A coarse grit in a blasting cabinet will prep a tank in no time flat... and leave a good surface for your primer or filler. I'm pretty well done with chemical stripping.

I actually ended up doing that afterwards anyway to clean up the mess  >:( ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 06, 2016, 06:40:47
Here's a clearer shot of the hidden battery.  By the time I got the brake pedal, the foot peg and the exhaust on, it ends up pretty much unseen.

I also decided to get some nice fabric covered spark lead.  I reckon it looks mint.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 3DogNate on Oct 06, 2016, 11:48:39
it's so clean
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 07, 2016, 09:46:21
Heres a shot showing the tank after I gave it a quick blast.  Also, a rare shot from the left side of the bike.  I wheeled it outside and it felt good to show it some daylight after so long!

Then it was back into the shop to complete the wiring and start work on the side covers and prepping the engine.  I also took the tank off and dropped it at a professional painters today.  Hoping it comes up good.  If it comes up like any of the other stuff I saw in their shop, I'll be happy. 

Btw, what are your experiences with how much a tank costs to spray?  Doesn't matter about currency, I'll convert it.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Oct 07, 2016, 13:13:48
Cool!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 3DogNate on Oct 07, 2016, 14:33:25
Btw, what are your experiences with how much a tank costs to spray?  Doesn't matter about currency, I'll convert it.  Cheers!

For show quality paint (Bikes I've painted have won best paint in shows.). For a typical solid color Japanese tank , I'll charge $250-300. Tank and Fender $4-5, Tank & 2 fenders and side covers will get $600... and that's no graphics or metal flake.

Dual Harley tanks and fenders I price a bit higher they are just physically larger... Add graphics and it starts adding up.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 08, 2016, 06:30:55
Thanks for the info man.

The guy was gonna take 1800sek plus tax, which is 25% here!  Mental.  Anyway, total will then be 2235sek = $260usd.  So about right really?  I remember getting a tank and some side covers done in Australia for $250 cash and was happy with that.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 09, 2016, 00:45:09
its tits,man ,titty la ritty ...looks like you found a nitch for the creative skills \  congratulatioins !
i think an optional  flyscreen ,would be a hit,right along the ssame style as the vmax unit  my a&h twin is going to be sporting
see, the large-ish round headlight really is well suited to a flyscreen perched above it ,in my mind aesthetically
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Oct 09, 2016, 16:14:00
The pain remover from Biltema? It has worked well for me on new paint but not so well on the old Yamaha paint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 11, 2016, 04:29:56
its tits,man ,titty la ritty ...looks like you found a nitch for the creative skills \  congratulatioins !
i think an optional  flyscreen ,would be a hit,right along the ssame style as the vmax unit  my a&h twin is going to be sporting
see, the large-ish round headlight really is well suited to a flyscreen perched above it ,in my mind aesthetically

Thanks!  I know exactly what you mean with a flyscreen.  It would need to be the right shape, but it would be cool and boy would it help with anything like that for the highway!  The light weight and lowish power of this bikes makes it a bit of a battle and you get blown around a lot.  So deflect any frontal air would be a help.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 11, 2016, 04:30:54
The pain remover from Biltema? It has worked well for me on new paint but not so well on the old Yamaha paint.

Na, I got the environmental stuff from Jula.  Bad mistake haha.  I'll try the Biltema stuff next time or just get straight on with it with the blaster.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Oct 11, 2016, 11:16:57
Thanks!  I know exactly what you mean with a flyscreen.  It would need to be the right shape, but it would be cool and boy would it help with anything like that for the highway!  The light weight and lowish power of this bikes makes it a bit of a battle and you get blown around a lot.  So deflect any frontal air would be a help.
I got a solid one from ebay that was listed as a replacement for a pocket bike. I'm using the OEM speedo unit too and the flyscreen seems to disguise it well. Need to fab-up some side mounts and paint it to match the tank but price and size seemed right.
Edit - it is a bit small if you are really looking for a windshield, but seemed to work for me as a flyscreen to hide the speedo, integrate with the headlight and deflect a little air.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 11, 2016, 11:24:58
Thanks!  I know exactly what you mean with a flyscreen.  It would need to be the right shape, but it would be cool and boy would it help with anything like that for the highway!  The light weight and lowish power of this bikes makes it a bit of a battle and you get blown around a lot.  So deflect any frontal air would be a help.
well the vmax unit i am using is just right and has a way cool look if you can find one they are out of production
here is one of mine i added the carbon fibre accent panels thats all
wd40 can for scale they are small and likely would boost top speed, certainly not take away from an upright rider position
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 12, 2016, 03:12:08
Edit - it is a bit small if you are really looking for a windshield, but seemed to work for me as a flyscreen to hide the speedo, integrate with the headlight and deflect a little air.

Yeah, I don't think a windshield would quite suit, more a flyscreen.  I will mock one up and see how it looks, then decide.

Running with xbs idea, I thought something a bit more like this...  But maybe in satin or even matte black.  To go with the rest of the minimalism on the bike.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Oct 13, 2016, 07:33:54
Those work well to send air up keeping bugs off the teeth... angle of deflection is key.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 13, 2016, 12:55:23
yep that one is pretty low but it depends on relation to riders head
better to start i bit taller a feller can always cut it down
now i would be investing in a smoke machine jake
and have some accomplishes ahead of you in their 1977 675,000 km rabbit diesel pickup(you dont want a smoke vehicle faster than you on the 2 five oh)
then with a smoke wand you can have a rolling wind tunnel just dont get too caried away watching the smoke if you are the bike pilot
that could get ugly
surley the staters woont mind would they  ?(state hiway police)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 14, 2016, 06:03:25
Haha, love the 'rolling wind tunnel' idea.  I searched on youtube to see if anyone has done it - not that I could find.  Would like to see it be done!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 14, 2016, 06:06:30
I am trying to tidy a few things up on the bike now, namely some of the wiring.  Some of the connections/plugs end up in awkward places so I decided to modify a couple of them to make them more hidden.  One example is the rec/reg unit.  Now one plug connects right behind it and the other connects under the seat instead.

I also received the 3D files for the scanned side covers yesterday, plus the physical stock ones back in the mail from the dude.  Now the modelling fun begins! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Oct 14, 2016, 09:39:24
yep that one is pretty low but it depends on relation to riders head
better to start i bit taller a feller can always cut it down
now i would be investing in a smoke machine jake
and have some accomplishes ahead of you in their 1977 675,000 km rabbit diesel pickup(you dont want a smoke vehicle faster than you on the 2 five oh)
then with a smoke wand you can have a rolling wind tunnel just dont get too caried away watching the smoke if you are the bike pilot
that could get ugly
surley the staters woont mind would they  ?(state hiway police)

"Rolling Wind Tunnel"

Hmmm lets see... 50" tube 80" long at 4deg up angle moving at 50mph creates 9001.00000000832314 lbs of lift.

It might have you at 2500 feet in 4 miles mang  :o
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 18, 2016, 11:04:13
Got the tank back from the painters today and it is awesome.  I think he did a pretty sweet job of matching the satin black of the frame, fenders and headlight ears :)

One thing I don't like though is how the Yamaha badges sit on an angle in relation to the bottom of the tank.  This suited the bike/tank in its original location, but now that everything is all levelled out it really bothers me.  I'm thinking about trimming the screws (so they are only the countersunk head), glueing them onto the bags, then putting the badge on with automotive double sided foam assembly tape at the right angle I want...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 18, 2016, 11:06:07
Also, I think I found my wind shield  ;D ;D Jokes.

I think I'll skip one for this build though and design one for the next project - which will be more of a road racer style  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Oct 18, 2016, 13:03:39
Looks fantastic!  (not the wind shield though!! :) )

Did you lower the forks internally at all, OR just slide them up in the triple so you can fasten the clip-ons?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 19, 2016, 04:32:17
Na I didn't lower them internally.  I will look at that in another build potentially.  In this case the stanchions are just raised though the triples 60mm.  Which is the max without causing bottoming issues with the lower triple tree bracket.  If you are interested check back through this build to page 38 where I checked to see if the frame geometry would all be ok  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Oct 19, 2016, 11:23:11
I think we touched on this in the past... I like the stance with the lower front end and was curious how low you were able to go.  I'll note the 60mm when I work on my front end.  I'll probably lower mine internally 40mm (ish) and then slide them up in the triple for the final position.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: grcamna5 on Oct 19, 2016, 12:41:53
Jadus,
I'm not able to see how the orientation of the YAMAHA badges are in relation to the rest of the bike as it sits on it's wheels or ride height;they are not straight ?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Oct 19, 2016, 14:46:37
Jadus,
I'm not able to see how the orientation of the YAMAHA badges are in relation to the rest of the bike as it sits on it's wheels or ride height;they are not straight ?
If you click on the image above (SilverYamaha) it will open in a dedicated window. It looks like the tail end of the YAMAHA script is lower than the leading end.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 19, 2016, 15:09:11
If you click on the image above (SilverYamaha) it will open in a dedicated window. It looks like the tail end of the YAMAHA script is lower than the leading end.

You're right zap.  grcamna it is a bit of a bad photo to show it but the logo does lean back.  At least 10 degrees I would say.  I am being pedantic now, but seeing as I have treated most parts (down to every last nut and bolt!) with a detailed eye, I figure why not get the badge spot on as well.  After all, I love yammies and it should be straight haha  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Oct 20, 2016, 12:34:58
Why not design a nice emblem your self? Wouldn't be to hard to cut it out of a piece of aluminum with a good laser.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 21, 2016, 05:42:14
Why not design a nice emblem your self? Wouldn't be to hard to cut it out of a piece of aluminum with a good laser.

I did think about doing that but I really like the way these badges look.  There is something so 'original yamaha' about them that I don't think I could replicate with a laser cut or CNC part.  They would look too custom in my mind, which is something I would like to avoid.  Good thought though as it might suit other styles of builds   :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 3DogNate on Oct 21, 2016, 12:01:15
I did think about doing that but I really like the way these badges look.  There is something so 'original yamaha' about them that I don't think I could replicate with a laser cut or CNC part.  They would look too custom in my mind, which is something I would like to avoid.  Good thought though as it might suit other styles of builds   :)

I think that it's awesome that you are making this bike look very much like a "factory" bike. But yet on further examination very custom... very bad ass "resto-mod" style.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Ping on Oct 21, 2016, 15:14:15
Wow! Epic build, Jadus! I really appreciate it. Everything looks so clean and new. As it should be with projects :)
I loved your style with 3D printing. I myself study printing engineering so your build is inspiration for my future ideas. I started studying it with an idea to somehow incorporate it into motorcycles and you've just done it :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 22, 2016, 05:29:45
I think that it's awesome that you are making this bike look very much like a "factory" bike. But yet on further examination very custom... very bad ass "resto-mod" style.

Thanks! Yeah that has pretty much been the goal from the outset.  'Resto-mod' is a pretty good description!  Something with subtle mods, nothing too extreme and something totally Yamaha.  A standard, like Yamaha made before the whole 'Special' styled bikes came along in the 80's.  I tried to envision what the SR250 could have looked like if it was released as a standard first - like the XS650, SR500 and even XS750's/850's and XS1100's - before they all got their own 'Special' styling treatment.  I think it was a shame the SR250 didn't have the chance to be styled like those original bikes  :(  I know that this build has a lot of stuff on it that Yamaha would never had done in production, but then I had to make it a little bit Jadus too didn't I?!  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 22, 2016, 05:31:54
Just for reference, here is a better, clearer image of how the tank badge sits in relation to the bottom edge of the tank and the frame rail.  I will definitely be placing them in the position I want with the double sided foam tape and just putting the screw heads there.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 22, 2016, 05:37:16
Every one of these bikes I have owned, the underside of the tank has had surface rust on it.  With this one, I blasted all that off before taking it to the painter.  Then when I got it back, I see that the underside isn't covered!  After looking at the other 2 tanks I have, I see that they are not either...  Is it difficult to get into the tunnel with a spray gun?  Or is it just considered not important?  Anyway, I masked this one up and bombed it with some satin black to at least cover the bare metal.  Don't know if it will help at all with corrosion resistance, but it did something for my peace of mind anyway!  Managed not to mess up the top side with over spray  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 22, 2016, 05:42:38
Wow! Epic build, Jadus! I really appreciate it. Everything looks so clean and new. As it should be with projects :)
I loved your style with 3D printing. I myself study printing engineering so your build is inspiration for my future ideas. I started studying it with an idea to somehow incorporate it into motorcycles and you've just done it :D

Thanks mate.  Yeah, lucky for me the product development industry was probably the earliest adopter for 3D printing as it is so beneficial to speeding up the process.  Plus, both the last two places I have worked invested in one - so I managed to learn on the job (not hard btw, but a bit time consuming at times). 

The process has come so far in just a few years, so pretty soon it won't be just prototypes, it'll be finished pieces that are just as strong, if not stronger than CNC made billet parts.  We're pretty much already there with the laser sintering process...  Real cool stuff! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: HerrDeacon on Oct 22, 2016, 06:18:52
Just for reference, here is a better, clearer image of how the tank badge sits in relation to the bottom edge of the tank and the frame rail.  I will definitely be placing them in the position I want with the double sided foam tape and just putting the screw heads there.

I agree with you on the tank badge and good on you for fixing it, if you're like me it would bug you every time you looked at it so best to get it done now. Bike is looking great!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 25, 2016, 04:11:57
I agree with you on the tank badge and good on you for fixing it, if you're like me it would bug you every time you looked at it so best to get it done now. Bike is looking great!

Thanks.  Yep, its gotta be done!

I decided I wanted to tidy up some of the wires under neath the seat.  Even though the side covers will cover it all, I don't want to just cable tie things out of the way.  I think I'll just cut up a thin sheet of aluminium that mounts up to the small bracket under the seat (luckily I didn't remove them!).
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Oct 30, 2016, 16:02:47
Some progress with the electrics tray/tidy.  Yay.  Originally I was going to bolt it to the underside of the tabs, but then decided it would be cleaner if it was up under the frame rails slightly, hence the two mock ups.  It was sweet to make it out of 2mm ally sheet so I could just use the snips.  Nice and easy.  Then a sand and matte black paint.  I love button head machine screws too  ;D  Now you can't see anything in terms of wires from a side profile view. 

I don't think I'll tidy the wires up any more than this, as long as there won't be any shorting happening and they are out of the way.  Just really want to avoid more cable ties! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: interceptor on Oct 30, 2016, 16:28:35
Nice and neat. Good job!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: bcnSR250 on Oct 30, 2016, 16:29:09
Looks great, it looks factory. I'll probably be stealing this on my bike

Sent from my phone at a place via an app

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 30, 2016, 17:36:22
you should make a cooler that goes in that vacant area a deep freeze cryrowgenic type for transporting cut off  fingers(industrial accidents) and afterbirth(human gene gnome syrup) and shit like that see,follow the bambalance-es
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: interceptor on Oct 30, 2016, 18:05:42
you should make a cooler that goes in that vacant area a deep freeze cryrowgenic type for transporting cut off  fingers(industrial accidents) and afterbirth(human gene gnome syrup) and shit like that see,follow the bambalance-es
Did you eat paint chips as a child?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: HerrDeacon on Oct 30, 2016, 18:42:59
Very neat work!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 01, 2016, 14:16:44
Did you eat paint chips as a child?

I just spat my coffee haha  Yeah sorry xb, that one went over my head.  Thanks for the compliments otherwise.

I didn't like any of the crankcase breather filters I had so I took the white/silver/chrome one and scuffed it up, masked it, then painted it black.  I like it now.  I think I'll use the original tube though to place the filter inside the triangle (behind the side covers) rather than straight onto the spigot on the engine.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 01, 2016, 14:46:27
I've been saving this post for a few days because its a big one and I treated it like a bit of a project in of itself.  The side covers...

I modelled up a new cover based on the 3D file from the scanning.  Then I made a prototype of that to check how everything fit up.  There were quite a few small tweaks that needed to be made - mostly with the position of the fastening points but also with the fitment and alignment in the frame.  I wanted to get it to fit a little tighter and flusher.

All along I thought that the side covers should just be flat (well, curved, but relatively plain) because that is what I feel Yamaha would have originally done with this entry level bike.  Also, the stock ones on the Special models were just plain.  But after seeing this prototype I thought I could/should do better.

Then came some sketching and ideation.  Whatever talent I have lacked as a designer in the area of sketching I have managed to make up for it elsewhere, but my abilities held me back here for sure :( haha.  Given, some of the forms are somewhat hard to express in 3D with just a pen and pencil, and screw cracking out the markers!  I limited myself to a few simple silhouette style 2D drawings to see if I could pull in some feature/line of the bike into a design feature in the actual cover.  I always look for something to connect to somewhere else on the bike/product.  So it 'makes sense' a bit.  I also looked a lot at existing Yamaha side covers that I like a lot - certain models of RD350, XS650 and others.

The challenge I realised was that I wanted the cover to look pretty stock still, so a lot of the concepts ended up looking too aftermarket or even 'racey' which is not what the SR, or at least this one is about.  So speed holes and channels were ruled out after seeing them.

Then I decided I liked the idea of trying to pull in the nice curve at the rear of the tank and try to blend that into a smooth surface.  I made a couple of prototypes of this idea with two different depths of the detail.  When I modelled it up in 3D I did a sketch of how I would do it, I usually do this when I model things up, especially if there are mating surfaces involved and there needs to be continuity - then I need to plan a bit. 

I found the first prototype was too shallow and needed to be exaggerated more for it to look intentional.  Then with the second prototype glued and filled together I tested it on the bike.  This time with the seat on too.  Which I should have done from the beginning because it looked funky right away.  Too busy and confused all in one area and not really lining up. 

So I decided to try another one of the concepts - one where the line of the tank/seat junction continues into the cover and then flicks back rearward.  Thats where I am at now and I like it a lot.  I might tweak it slightly to see if the curve should be tightened or loosened and if it could line up any better.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Nov 01, 2016, 14:53:48
I also like the under-seat platform idea!

RE: crankcase breather - there was an interesting technical article in the October 2016 edition of Motorcycle Consumer News by Dave Searle (former editor of MCN) talking about oil vapor breathers, separators, and some racing tricks. Mentioned were the use of both 1-way valves in the in the crankcase vents and vacuum pumps on crankcases to reduce pumping losses. Since a single-cylinder engine pumps a lot, I was thinking on trying out a 1-way PCV in-line with an automotive fuel filter acting as a catch can; probably suspended up under the seat.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Nov 01, 2016, 15:21:27
Jake!  Very cool stuff indeed.  I think you have a winner with "lastestidea.jpg"

The inset flows perfectly with the line between the seat and tank as well as the frame rail.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: advCo on Nov 01, 2016, 15:28:56
Very cool. 3D printing is a great method for prototyping, I have to set mine back up after relocating my office a couple months ago..

Will you use the 3D print as a mold for fiberglass? Or what will the final product be constructed of?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Nov 01, 2016, 15:44:39
Very cool. 3D printing is a great method for prototyping, I have to set mine back up after relocating my office a couple months ago..

Will you use the 3D print as a mold for fiberglass? Or what will the final product be constructed of?

Why not just epoxy dip the printout after an ABS slurry coat?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: bcnSR250 on Nov 01, 2016, 16:43:07
That last one looks fantastic, your making me want to get a 3D printer

Sent from my phone at a place via an app

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 03, 2016, 05:07:42
That last one looks fantastic, your making me want to get a 3D printer

Doooo it!  There are some really sweet affordable options now and so much support online, not to mention all the help on youtube through tutorials.

Will you use the 3D print as a mold for fiberglass? Or what will the final product be constructed of?

Why not just epoxy dip the printout after an ABS slurry coat?

I thought I would get the covers looking the way I wanted first, then remodel them with the surface set back 2-3mm and print another set to then finer glass over the top of.  Or even 3D print some kind of 2-part mild.  BUT, after handling these prototypes, I am 100% confident that they are strong enough as they are.  They have a 1.5mm wall thickness with a 20% infill and they seem really stable.  With the mounting points, if I construct them in a way with this process in mind, I can give them ribs and support where needed.  So I think I will print them out at a slightly higher resolution (right now they are only at 0.3mm layer thickness which is pretty rough), then run a light coat of filler over them, then spray putty, then top coat!  The biggest shortcoming of PLA is its weakness under any hot conditions, its melting temp is so low that it gets soft and warps.  But I figure these will not be subject to too much heat  - mostly hanging in the breeze.  I'll have to give a long term report on them in a year or so  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 03, 2016, 05:11:14
I also like the under-seat platform idea!

RE: crankcase breather - there was an interesting technical article in the October 2016 edition of Motorcycle Consumer News by Dave Searle (former editor of MCN) talking about oil vapor breathers, separators, and some racing tricks. Mentioned were the use of both 1-way valves in the in the crankcase vents and vacuum pumps on crankcases to reduce pumping losses. Since a single-cylinder engine pumps a lot, I was thinking on trying out a 1-way PCV in-line with an automotive fuel filter acting as a catch can; probably suspended up under the seat.

Thanks for this Zap.  I love that stuff!  Do you have a copy of the article? I will look into what Yamaha have done internally inside the crankcases for this bike and post a couple pics :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Nov 04, 2016, 17:49:15
Sorry, I do not have a digital image of the article (probably too new). Here's a couple links that speak to the same issue:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1470705659
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=144179.0
http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Crankcase-Pressure_Engine-Performance

I figure that my idea (not new by any sort) would work better than just a filter attached to the crankcase vent if you are doing away with the stock air box or trying to replicate the OEM recycling into the intake tract.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Nov 06, 2016, 18:29:00
Looks awesome. Why not use ABS instead of PLA? Also, what kind of printer is that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 07, 2016, 06:09:34
Thanks for that info Zap, I read all of it.  really interesting stuff.  I'm too close to finishing this build to try and implement something other than the breather filter, but the next SR I build will definitely employ something like that Armen guy suggested on the Savage forum.  In fact, lots of the good ideas brought up in this thread that I haven't managed to get into this bike will be experimented with on the next  ;D

Eleganten, ABS would be ideal actually.  Then I probably wouldn't need reinforcement at all.  But to print ABS you need a heated bed and I can't be assed sorting that out.  My intention with printing all along was/is just to make prototypes for fitment and to see how they look before making proper parts from proper materials.

The printer is a Printrbot metal plus.  I bought it as a kit and it was only available for a short time - I suspect they had a lot of issues with it because I certainly did.  Now they only offer it assembled and with a heated bed.  The two biggest issues were the parts lifting off the bed - the aluminium plate is too cold and the heat differential to the hot plastic caused the parts to lift and warp.  This was solved with build tak and I haven't had many issues since!  The other issue was that the printer head ploughs into the work piece all the time, hard enough to break the part off the bed.  I solved this by making a new printer bed that sits above the stock one and is spring loaded - so if/when the printer head hits the work piece, the whole bed just pushes down then springs back up again.  Works a treat.   ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 3DogNate on Nov 07, 2016, 13:56:17
Thanks for that info Zap, I read all of it.  really interesting stuff.  I'm too close to finishing this build to try and implement something other than the breather filter, but the next SR I build will definitely employ something like that Armen guy suggested on the Savage forum.  In fact, lots of the good ideas brought up in this thread that I haven't managed to get into this bike will be experimented with on the next  ;D

Eleganten, ABS would be ideal actually.  Then I probably wouldn't need reinforcement at all.  But to print ABS you need a heated bed and I can't be assed sorting that out.  My intention with printing all along was/is just to make prototypes for fitment and to see how they look before making proper parts from proper materials.

The printer is a Printrbot metal plus.  I bought it as a kit and it was only available for a short time - I suspect they had a lot of issues with it because I certainly did.  Now they only offer it assembled and with a heated bed.  The two biggest issues were the parts lifting off the bed - the aluminium plate is too cold and the heat differential to the hot plastic caused the parts to lift and warp.  This was solved with build tak and I haven't had many issues since!  The other issue was that the printer head ploughs into the work piece all the time, hard enough to break the part off the bed.  I solved this by making a new printer bed that sits above the stock one and is spring loaded - so if/when the printer head hits the work piece, the whole bed just pushes down then springs back up again.  Works a treat.   ;D

I added Auto leveling to my printer via an inductive sensor on an aluminum bed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-LJ12A3-4-Z-BX-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor-Detection-Switch-NPN-DC6-36V-4mm-/262497221271?hash=item3d1e0dba97:g:v84AAOSwM4xXbea8

(A heated bed is REALLY easy to add too. if you want to get into that. If you've recompiled firmware you know what you are in for.) I still prefer PLA or PET over ABS for most things... ABS can be a bit soft for smaller objects especially mechanical ones. newer PLA melts at similar temps to ABS anyway... ABS takes paint better is about the only thing it's got going that PLA doesn't and that's just due to ABS being solvent sensitive and PLA being very resistant.

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 09, 2016, 09:00:39
Yeah I always liked PLA.  No smell, strong enough, and no near for heated bed (in most cases)

This printer came with the autoleveling function with an inductive sensor.  I actually added steel washers to the printer bed so that the sensor picked it up sooner than it does with just plain aluminium.  This then lifts the sensor further away from the work piece in relation to the printer nozzle during a print.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 09, 2016, 09:01:31
Levelled and attached tank badges
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: HerrDeacon on Nov 09, 2016, 11:01:56
Levelled and attached tank badges

Much, much better!!!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Nov 09, 2016, 13:04:13
^ I agree. This site needs a "like" button.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: 3DogNate on Nov 09, 2016, 13:26:24
^ I agree. This site needs a "like" button.

Yeah... forum software is due for an update.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 14, 2016, 06:44:16
The left side cover has been a bit of a nightmare.  Turns out it's pretty far away from being a straight mirror part.  I had to remodel it from scratch rather than mirroring the right side and tweaking it.  The frame is slightly different and this side needs to cover the air box, which sticks out quite a way - in comparison to the relatively flat and flush battery on the other side.  I'm onto the 2nd prototype already, hoping this one (on print now) will match up better and clear the bottom of the air box!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 23, 2016, 11:02:59
Right, I'm on to the 3rd and 4th prototypes of each of these covers and still fluffing around with the fitment and the detail. 

In the mean time, I am contemplating what sticker to place on the covers.  I'll probably get them vinyl cut in either silver or mirror vinyl.  I really like the old SR500 logo - came in a couple of variations, so I have tried that.  Then the logo on the tank of the late model SR250's is also actually pretty cool - a bit more modern graphically.  Could work, just not sure it fits.  Then of coarse I am toying with the idea of putting Jadus on the side - this would be good to get the name out there but I am not a fan of blatant promotion.  Not so smart business wise maybe but for me its all about the design.  Not ruling it out, just cautious of it is all.  I could use just the text, or just the logo, not both.  Thoughts? 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Nov 23, 2016, 11:11:48
Of those pictured, I like the last/logo better than the script.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Ichiban Moto on Nov 23, 2016, 12:22:15
Firstly, this is a badass awesome thread :D

Addition of kickstarter or kick conversion ? Some time back I had to round up used  XT250 parts to convert.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 23, 2016, 14:08:44
I like the last logo the best over the text, but I think all of them could be smaller in relation to the Yamaha logo
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: sbruton on Nov 23, 2016, 16:48:01
Of those pictured, I like the last/logo better than the script.

+1

The Jadus logo looks good and in my opinion isn't "in your face"....
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 24, 2016, 06:07:44
Firstly, this is a badass awesome thread :D

Addition of kickstarter or kick conversion ? Some time back I had to round up used  XT250 parts to convert.

Thanks!  I've been watching your vids for a while now and love your sense of humour  ;D

I actually have all the parts for a kick start conversion, but decided it wasn't right for this build.  I'm saving it for the next SR which is going to be more racer focused.  More on that later/when this one is done!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 24, 2016, 06:09:28
Well thats a good few people in for the Jadus logo, awesome.  I'll play a bit with the size of it and it's position.

Just signed a contract and started a full time job again, so I am glad I am real close with the build  :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Nov 24, 2016, 08:04:44
I like the SR top right.

Signed up with the man eh... Don't loose sight of the dream mang!
 :o
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: magazine on Nov 24, 2016, 20:15:43
I like the Jadus logo the best. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Nov 25, 2016, 05:21:30
Signed up with the man eh... Don't loose sight of the dream mang!
 :o

Haha, yeah, back to the grind, back to the hamster wheel if you will  :-\  The dream is still very much in focus though!  This is just a means to an end and hopefully, not too long term  :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 11, 2016, 05:46:02
Closer and closer with these damn covers.  Made up a few prototypes now!  You can see in the last pic the curves I have been tweaking a bit at a time to get them to match the frame.

I am also considering if/how these could be produced in scale.  Injection moulding is obviously the preferred method and is how the originals are made.  But the tooling costs would be astronomical - based on the fact they are quite large parts and would require slides in the tool.  Sure, there are ways to simplify the design but then the covers would need to be an assembly, rather than a single part.  It is also really difficult to gauge if there would be enough interest to justify such an investment!  I'll mull it over for a good few months at least.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Tune-A-Fish© on Dec 11, 2016, 09:08:27
That gap won't pass the hotrod filler spreader test but looks dang good to me  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 11, 2016, 13:48:39
a fiberglass/carbon fiber composite would probably be the cheapest to tool for a small run of parts. but maybe not cheap enough to be at the price point you want.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Dec 11, 2016, 15:21:02
Might depend on how you intended to fasten them from the back. Maybe 3D printed units (on demand) to fasten/glue over existing tapered panels so no difficult fastening methods needed.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Dec 13, 2016, 11:34:23
How about using thermo-forming over a template? You could even make the transparent if you'd like to. If you get the mold right it would be really cheap and fast. However you would still have to mount the fasteners afterwards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 14, 2016, 16:28:03
That gap won't pass the hotrod filler spreader test but looks dang good to me  ;D

Haha, yeah, I have made a new version since this one, was not satisfied with that gap, or at least, the inconsistency  :-\
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 14, 2016, 16:30:09
All good input thanks.  Yeah, I am now investigating composite manufacture.  Cheaper tooling and shorter production runs.  I'll just have to figure out a way to attach the fixing points easily, perhaps they can be 3D printed like zap suggests and then epoxied in place with a jig.  Food for thought for the holiday season!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 18, 2016, 03:38:58
The right side I am 100% happy with, the fitment is spot on - including the leading and trailing edges and their 'door gaps' haha.  Now comes the arduous task of prepping for paint - body filler, sanding, spray putty, sanding, primer, paint  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 21, 2016, 03:24:53
looks nice, are you still planning on producing these?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Dec 21, 2016, 17:38:31
A tip, buy 2K spray plaster from Hagmans in a can, not a spray can, like a paint bucket. They have it at Mekonomen. It's great to work with and will save you a lot of time and money! I used it during my bachelor project. Straight in soft polyurethane foam without any other plaster and it worked like a charm. You can even apply it with a paintbrush in thick layers and get a good result.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 22, 2016, 01:33:46
A tip, buy 2K spray plaster from Hagmans in a can, not a spray can, like a paint bucket. They have it at Mekonomen. It's great to work with and will save you a lot of time and money! I used it during my bachelor project. Straight in soft polyurethane foam without any other plaster and it worked like a charm. You can even apply it with a paintbrush in thick layers and get a good result.

Man, thanks for the sweet tip!  I was thinking I was going to have to lay a thin coat of filler over the whole surface but that would have been a nightmare to sand even.  I will get me some of that instead!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Dec 22, 2016, 01:35:47
looks nice, are you still planning on producing these?

Yeah for sure, but maybe not for some time.  Unfortunately will and passion do not equate to funds!  Yet  ;)  I have a pretty good contact for vacuum forming as well, so it will either be finer glass or that, depending on the quotes I get back.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jan 13, 2017, 14:15:02
Before any further work on the bike or development of new parts, a rebuild of the 3D printer was needed - long over due.  I have no kind of counter of any sort but I can imagine this thing has run for 100's of hours and I have gone through over 8kg of plastic filament in 18 months!  Always feels good to get stuck into your own equipment and do the maintenance you should.  Nothing like that freshly rebuilt feeling!  Hopefully gonna feel that with this bike soon too  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 14, 2017, 15:43:45
Shit, got the 'Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 30 days.' text, bad sign!  If anyone is interested, I wrote a blog post about surviving the Swedish winter here:  https://www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com/single-post/2017/02/06/Swedish-Winter-Survival-Tips

I got the riding itch on the weekend and decided to go for a little ride, despite the temperature being -2  :o  But the sun was shining and we had blue skies, so I went on a wee mission to find this 2K spray plaster from Hagmans at Mekonomen that Eleganten suggested.  They didn't have it  :'(  But they had this other stuff that I decided to give a go.  Seems to be alrite, I'll just need to sand and reapply a few times.

One thing I have managed to do though is design the SR stickers completely and order some vinyl cuts in chrome vinyl.  I reckon they looks the tits.  Suit the bike at least anyway - now I have very small amounts of chrome just as accents in various places of the bike - the way chrome should be used ;)  (read, dig at the chopper boys).  I ordered a few extra and will chuck them up on the webshop shortly and see if there is any interest for them.  I assume they would look cool on the 'big' SR's too  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Feb 15, 2017, 19:51:04
The sprayplaster you got is, as far as I know, one of the best you can get over the counter in Sweden. The one I was talking about sometimes have to be ordered in advance, which I think I might have forgotten to mention since I didn't have to. Sorry about that. The 2K version I meant will work better than the one you got if you have issues with the current one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Feb 16, 2017, 15:52:36
The sprayplaster you got is, as far as I know, one of the best you can get over the counter in Sweden.

Yeah it was a shame they didn't have the 2k one, but you are right, the stuff I ended up getting is pretty damn good anyways  :D

Hopefully get them shaped up pretty nice next week.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 01, 2017, 16:33:24
Things are shaping up pretty good with the side covers!  After a few nights of sanding and thick coats of that spray filler, they are ready for top coat - hoping to do that over the coming weekend.

I managed to get the covers to fit and attach to the frame really nicely with some small frame clamp brackets and some neodymium magnets - photos to come soon.  This keeps a completely flush look on the covers - even if the brackets do show a bit on the frame.  Once I get some riding on it I will decide if they stay or not - after all, the bike still looks pretty clean without them.

I have actually pencilled in a date with a photographer friend to take some studio-ish photos of this beast in a few weeks - so I better be damn finished by then!  Now that the engine covers are on and the oil filter changed, all that is left is to hook up the carb, tune it, fill her up with oil and crank it.  Oh yeah, plus these damn side covers  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 01, 2017, 16:56:46
I have also been pondering something recently that I thought I could gather some opinions on here...

The aluminium guards I designed and tooled up for have been up on the webshop for a while now and I have only sold one, yes one, to a private person.  I have however sold over 20 to custom motorcycle workshops and they love them!  Is there something I am missing?  Are they too difficult to install for the garage builder?  I just presumed most people could bang up a couple custom brackets from aluminium sheet and make em fit.  Or are they a bad design?

Anywho, both Reverb Motorcycles in the UK and Unikat Motorworks in Poland ordered some samples last year some time, loved them, then ordered 10 each at the start of this year - you can see them on an old BMW boxer twin, a W650 and a CB750  ;D

http://www.reverbmotorcycles.com

http://1of1.pl/en/

Maybe I need to develop an easily adjustable bracket mounting system for them to make them more appealing?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Mar 01, 2017, 17:22:42
I think the issue mig be that people tend to miss the fact that small scale manufacturing is fairly expensive. If you ask say, 120€ for a non-bolt-on product people will look at other cheaper/easier options. Especially if they don't have a proper garage with good tools/machines. One option I would consider is to offer a to order solution to your fender. In other words, you'll have to drill the holes and sort the mounting brackets for the buyer. Off course this would have to come at an extra cost for the buyer. But I think it might be an option to try out since you don't really lose any money. If you get a lot of response you could get it made as a bolt on product.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 05, 2017, 15:46:59
I think the issue mig be that people tend to miss the fact that small scale manufacturing is fairly expensive. If you ask say, 120€ for a non-bolt-on product people will look at other cheaper/easier options. Especially if they don't have a proper garage with good tools/machines. One option I would consider is to offer a to order solution to your fender. In other words, you'll have to drill the holes and sort the mounting brackets for the buyer. Off course this would have to come at an extra cost for the buyer. But I think it might be an option to try out since you don't really lose any money. If you get a lot of response you could get it made as a bolt on product.

Some good food for thought thanks.  Even though these guards cost nowhere near 120Euro ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Mar 05, 2017, 18:49:49
At 64€ they should sell a lot more! That's a bloody steal!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Mar 06, 2017, 21:36:46
"The aluminium guards I designed and tooled up for have been up on the webshop for a while now and I have only sold one, yes one, to a private person.  I have however sold over 20 to custom motorcycle workshops and they love them!  Is there something I am missing?  Are they too difficult to install for the garage builder?  I just presumed most people could bang up a couple custom brackets from aluminium sheet and make em fit.  Or are they a bad design?"
Maybe some different marketing? From the 2 posts on your DTT vendor blog it is not evident that you have some universal items, nor does it show the wide range of SR250 parts you carry. Maybe even a posting about your fenders in the fender-specific DTT forum? Mention the universal tank mounts in the tank area? Maybe more emphasis on your web site where you have lots more stuff (and specifics about that stuff)?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 08, 2017, 15:58:22
That's a really good point thanks Zap.  I have been so tunnel visioned that I have failed to see how other people might view Jadus/the parts on offer/the webshop.  Sometimes it requires some outside perspective to highlight oversights.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: ChrisSpain on Mar 09, 2017, 18:48:31
Hi , first time poster here.

For me personally , the mudguard is lovely , and not expensive.

However , it doesn´t have a matching rear counterpart. What is one expected to use on the rear of the bike ?

If it is going to be marketed for the SR people , maybe a matching front / rear kit ?

regards
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 17, 2017, 16:03:51
Hi , first time poster here.
For me personally , the mudguard is lovely , and not expensive.
However , it doesn´t have a matching rear counterpart. What is one expected to use on the rear of the bike ?
If it is going to be marketed for the SR people , maybe a matching front / rear kit ?
regards

Hi Chris!  Welcome to the site!  And thanks for commenting.  Great point about a set.  My thoughts were actually that people could use the guard in the rear as well - like a stubby rear guard under the tail light, or with the tail light attached even.  A bit like the ones attached...  Yes, all Auto Fabrica, I have a shameless love affair with their bikes/style.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 18, 2017, 14:14:27
Phew, side covers done and dusted!  A couple shots...  ;D

I also did another round of dyno testing a couple weekends ago with good results - but I'll do a write up on that over on the other thread!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: HerrDeacon on Mar 18, 2017, 14:42:03
Very sharp! Nice work, bike looks great.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Mar 18, 2017, 15:49:50
That does look good with the new seat, stance, and tank reposition. Do the covers strap onto the frame tubes? Back-side pics?
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 19, 2017, 05:29:37
Thanks guys.  Yeah I took some photos of that, forgot to share - see below.  The rear of the covers is far less attractive than the front.  I used filler to make somewhat of a mould and pressed it onto the magnets I had on the frame while it was still soft.  I covered the magnets and brackets in grease so the filler wouldn't stick.  Then I cleaned up the filler (dremelled it back to a smooth clump) and glued and screwed the neodymium magnets in place.  On the frame are just standard 7/8" and 1" tube/pipe brackets (that I will eventually paint black) with a large countersunk screw head - these are what the magnets pull on to.  They seem to hold in place really well, but we'll see if they stay there when riding.  If not, i'll try fixing them from the rear in another way.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 19, 2017, 15:44:31
Here's how the backside ended up after sanding and painting.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Mar 19, 2017, 16:01:55
Ok - so the silver straps on the frame tubes (above pics) hold the neodymium magnets in place.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 20, 2017, 18:34:56
Ok - so the silver straps on the frame tubes (above pics) hold the neodymium magnets in place.

Yeah almost.  The magnets are actually inset in the filler on the inside of the covers - held in place with a screw and glue (they were magnets with a countersink on one side).  Then the frame just has some bolt heads.  If I need a stronger clamp later, I could add magnets to those braces as well - bolted on.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 25, 2017, 16:07:34
Got a nice ride in today on the test mule.  Spring is definitely in the air, although air temps have not made it to 10 yet!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 27, 2017, 14:03:50
Things have been getting a little OCD here at the end - decided I didn't like the ugly goldish plated screws of the new non-vacuum petcock I decided to go with.  So I trimmed up some stainless ones.  Much better  :D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Oz350Four on Mar 28, 2017, 01:55:50
OCD is good...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Brodie on Mar 28, 2017, 03:58:38
Looks better. Not full OCD, there is still a cast mark on the petcock switch.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Mar 28, 2017, 18:15:49
Haha, I agree, that mark on the petcock plate really bothers me!  Gotta draw the line somewhere I guess.

No all mounted - along with the harmonic intake and foam filter - with Jadus logo  :o ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 02, 2017, 06:55:08
Finally, we got there.  This happened yesterday and I cannot wait to see the photos once David has worked his magic.  I have zero photographic talent or vision, but this guy is a natural - self taught, but it's so obvious when working with him he knows what he is doing.  I was the lighting assistant  ;D  He told me exactly where he wanted the light, what angle, what position, intensity etc, all to pick up the best shadows and highlights.  He will use several exposures layered on top of one another to show all of the details in the best possible light - literally.  The white paper on the ground is not used as a ground/background, rather to bounce light from the soft flash back up from underneath.  The previews I got to see were very promising, chuffed.

Now this step is done, I'll be adding liquids and going for a test ride this week hopefully.  Then starts the process of getting it road registered again.  There are a few things I anticipate I will need to do to pass inspection.  One, the tail light does not throw white light onto the license plate when on, so will need to either swap it out for the test or add some small license plate lights.  Two, will need to add mirrors obviously - such a shame none suited the bike (I really did try).  Three, it will probably, but not necessarily be too loud.  In Sweden there is an age limit to bikes that allows some to have higher decibel outputs but I'll need to look into that.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on Apr 02, 2017, 11:53:43
 Great looking bike man, well done.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: ChrisSpain on Apr 14, 2017, 15:52:21
That´s looking really cool.. and I look forward to the results of your jetting/carb settings.

Are you using your ´Ignition advance´modified timing pick-up ?

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Apr 14, 2017, 16:14:38
I like the way the bar end mirrors look on the new H-D Street Rod (https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2017-harley-davidson-street-rod-first-ride-motorcycle-review (https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2017-harley-davidson-street-rod-first-ride-motorcycle-review)). A set of good Napoleon bar end mirrors might look as good on the SR250.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Apr 16, 2017, 05:05:18
Thanks guys!

That´s looking really cool.. and I look forward to the results of your jetting/carb settings.
Are you using your ´Ignition advance´modified timing pick-up ?

Yep, using the advance brackets, they seemed to pick up some torque low down and in the midrange, without affecting the top too much.  I actually just placed a production order for them, hoping other people are interested.  I'll share jetting in another post, because I tried a lot of settings with different set ups, interesting stuff.

I like the way the bar end mirrors look on the new H-D Street Rod (https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2017-harley-davidson-street-rod-first-ride-motorcycle-review (https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2017-harley-davidson-street-rod-first-ride-motorcycle-review)). A set of good Napoleon bar end mirrors might look as good on the SR250.

I have been following this bikes development since the first release.  Not a big fan, not because it is a Harley, but because it is an ugly looking, plasticky looking fatty.  My opinion of coarse.  But feel like giving Harley a pat on the back and saying 'good try'.  Anyway, about the mirrors, yeah not too bad.  I quite like bar end mirrors.  But the only down side is you have to hack up your nice grips  :-[
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 09, 2017, 18:06:57
It feels like an eternity since the photos were taken and I am just waiting on a few more of the hero shots to come through.  Patience, I keep telling myself.

It would be rude not to share with you all a glimpse of what is to come - here are a couple of low-res detail shots that I got a couple days ago.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 09, 2017, 18:08:10
Oh yeah, and if anyone follows the instagram account, I got the thing running again too!  Was one of the easiest first start up procedures I have ever had.  Wrapt.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: redwillissuperman on May 09, 2017, 21:47:16
It feels like an eternity since the photos were taken and I am just waiting on a few more of the hero shots to come through.  Patience, I keep telling myself.

It would be rude not to share with you all a glimpse of what is to come - here are a couple of low-res detail shots that I got a couple days ago.  Cheers.
These pictures make me realize three things:
1. I suck at taking pictures
2. I suck at taking pictures
3. I suck at taking pictures
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: clem on May 09, 2017, 23:45:30
Nice man. I really dig the ingenuity with the side panels. First class stuff here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 10, 2017, 18:00:12
These pictures make me realize three things:
1. I suck at taking pictures
2. I suck at taking pictures
3. I suck at taking pictures

Thanks dudes.  Yeah, well, if there is one thing I have learned through this journey, it's that you should know when to outsourse certain work if you think you won't be able to do it yourself up to the standard you desire.  Notice that little addition there - up to the standard you desire.  There are many things I could have done on the bike by myself but they just wouldn't have looked or felt how it did in my head and I would have been disappointed - like upholstery and tank paint for example.  One other great example was some decent photography.  I just don't have the eye, the passion, or the interest to be honest.  Better to either pay someone, or trade services with a mate (like I did ;D) that has the skills!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: interceptor on May 10, 2017, 21:07:11
Great job! 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 22, 2017, 18:26:23
Just got the best mail ever!  The rest of the photos from David  ;D  The workshop floor ended up being such a nice background and contrast to the cleanness of the bike. 

I have also been speaking with Taylor from Bike Bound and it is looking like they will run a feature on it over there which is awesome!  I formed a pretty good relationship with him through an article I wrote for them - dunno if anyone saw that?  Here it is if you're curious, it was published back in March:  http://www.bikebound.com/2017/03/30/best-yamaha-sr250-customs/
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 22, 2017, 18:31:16
But you lot get the scoop of coarse!  So without further ado...
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Luugo86 on May 22, 2017, 21:59:41
 That's a damn good looking bike man. Well done.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on May 22, 2017, 22:18:06
EXIF Bike worthy!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: ManxKat on May 23, 2017, 13:07:36
A symphony of monochromatic loveliness! Now get it out there and get some miles on those tyres!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: advCo on May 23, 2017, 13:14:59
Top notch stuff Jadus. Really loving the attention to detail on this build.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on May 23, 2017, 17:59:28
EXIF Bike worthy!

Sadly not!  Submitted, no response, followed up, no response  Outcome = bike not up to standard!  Or photos, or both.  The standard seems to be forever shifting and the bar rising constantly.  Which is a good thing I think! There is probably a lot of other factors too - timing, what is in right now, originality etc etc.

Anyway, thanks for the other compliments.  Definitely a labour of love  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: doc_rot on May 24, 2017, 02:24:43
Eh, they could be saving it for a rainy day. I have submitted work to websites before and it has literally taken over a year for some of them to use it when things got slow. While I personally really like your bike, websites like Bikeexif want a love/hate reaction from their viewers. Some of their most viewed posts are the ones that people hate because they can't stop talking about how much they hate it. If you want to make a splash do something totally outlandish and they will pick it up no matter how nonfunctional it is.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jun 04, 2017, 10:48:23
Taxed, insured, road legal.  Sigh of relief  :D This is what it ended up looking like with all the legal junk on it  ;D Not too bad I guess, but I will take the ugly plastic chain guard off again and probably design my own mirror mounts for a sleeker look.  You can see the added license plate led bolts as well.  I may as well leave them because they don't detract from the design too much.  BUT, I will definitely remove the big, heavy exhaust silencer.  Not only is it heavy and cumbersome, it messed up my jetting (of coarse) and quietened the exhaust note to a polite cough. Yuck. 

You might also notice I flipped the mount for the horn up front - I needed the clearance for the forks to be able to compress without the fork brace hitting it.  Duh. 
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Jun 05, 2017, 19:43:00
And still it looks great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: ManxKat on Jun 06, 2017, 04:42:28
Good to hear the legal folks were satisfied!
Is there any way you could move the licence plate/ light assembly further up the rear mudguard or is it one of those legal requirements that it has to overhang the rear tyre?
Re the horn (assuming you're keeping it), I bent the bracket on my bike so that the horn sits flush under the bottom yoke - just gets it out of sight.
Still one sharp looking 250!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: cosworth on Jun 11, 2017, 13:34:46
This is very solid.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: der_nanno on Jun 14, 2017, 08:48:34
Lovely indeed!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 08, 2017, 09:39:12
Thanks lads! 

After putting 1000km's on the bike I figured it would be a good time for a bit of a ride report, then I'll put this thread to sleep, call it complete and start the next project  ;D

A couple things proved a little more hassle than I thought - one being the exhaust silencer and the other being the carb - which ended up being partly related, partly not.

Turns out (most logically actually) that the silence makes a big difference to the carb settings.  No matter what I tried with the old Britt style silencer, I couldn't get it to perform or sound the way I wanted it to.  It always sounded hollow, tinny and empty-ish.  Especially because I had a reference point from the Jadus test mules (an awesome sound).  Plus the carb just didn't like it.  I tried two different sound/db killer inserts and even tried the perforated style with the packing, but the design of the silencer does not allow this very easily so it was a compromised solution.  The bike would splutter from dot to 1/4 throttle then would go pretty ok after that.  I also tried with a shorty hot dog silencer as well but that was a little too loud for me.

I ended up going with the tried and tested 17'' Emgo reverse cone silencer - the one I had used for all the dyno testing.  It is not standard though, I gut out the spark arrestor plate (or what ever the perforated plate in the middle of the thing is) and re-pack it with some high quality packing material - really getting as much on as I can and as dense as I can - then tie it all on with thin wire.  This set up just barely fits back in the cone but it makes the sound really deep and throaty and gutting the plate out of it means it is a very free flowing silencer.  Once I installed this, the jetting settings were spot on and she pulled crisp and clean all the way to the top again. 

Then a week or so after sorting that out I started having further carb problems - or what I suspected were carb problems - could have been spark/ignition but I doubted that.  I swapped the carb for one tuned one I had from the other bike and the problem disappeared.  When inspecting the original carb I noticed the needle was not sitting 100% in it's correct resting position (in the slide housing) and that had caused some very minute wear on it - right at the position I felt issues in the rpm range and just enough to mess things up.  So I swapped it for a new OEM needle and this fixed the problem.

I also swapped the non-vacuum petcock back to a stock one.  I hated the fact that you could run the risk of overfilling the carb at rest if the float needle didn't seat 100%.  This happened once and that was enough for me to want to get rid of it.

The ride itself is pretty good.  I ride it much more aggressively than I have with any other SR.  I have been managing to scrape the pegs and have actually wear marks on the entire tread of the tyres - no chicken strips!  ;D  The new geometry, with ride height and head stem angle etc seems real stable - have had it up to 130k on the highway with no stability problems.  I ride with a buddy of mine who has a DR650.  He eats me at all the stops and straights, but I get it all back in the twisties if we are on some country roads  8)

The one thing that annoys me a lot though is how soft and unresponsive the front suspension is.  I think the forks are long over due for a service.  I will start there - clean them out, put in some new thicker weight oil and also add some preload spacers.  If that is not satisfactory I can try the Minton mods or some emulators.  Sometimes on the highway at certain speeds the forks can start bouncing/bobbing around.  I think this is in part to the extra rotational mass of the fatter front rim and tyre that the stock forks are not designed to deal with - it must be some kind of frequency thing.  But it could also just be that fact that they are old and tired as mentioned and need some more preload and thicker oil.

Also, anyone wondering about the brakes?  I think they pull things up just fine!  But then again the bike weights probably around 115kg and I'm around 70, so rolling mass is not enormous.  I also have the disc brake set up from the SR250 Classic to compare to and although that is better, the drum is not as awful as people make it out to be.

Well thats it folks!  Looking forward to some more riding when the Swedish summer decides to deliver...   ::)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Popeye SXM on Jul 08, 2017, 20:03:28
Great looking bike. Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 10, 2017, 11:23:34
Just one more suggestion for your on-line retail operation. I just saw a new SR250 build on the AdvRider forum (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/vintage-classic-enduro-dual-sport-and-scrambler-bikes.751837/page-31 (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/vintage-classic-enduro-dual-sport-and-scrambler-bikes.751837/page-31) post #603 and following). I like his suggestion to stock the swingarm needle bearings.

BTW - he messaged me back that his bike is on ebay right now. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Yamaha-SR250-/253032349755?hash=item3ae9e7403b:g:h84AAOSw~rpZXtgQ&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Jul 17, 2017, 14:02:58
Thanks for the links Zap.  Cool stuff.  I had actually been thinking of a roller bearing conversion for the swing arm for the next project.  But maybe even replacing the plastic bushes of the stock SR with bronze ones and welding in a grease nipple like I have seen people do on XS650's.  I'll cross that bridge when I come to it but it's nice to know there are options and that other people have done it.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: irk miller on Jul 17, 2017, 18:45:53
No need for needle bearings in a swing arm.  Bronze bushings are an upgrade in this situation and needle bearings are for high rotational/high rpm loads.  You can also consider Oilite bushings.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: zap2504 on Jul 17, 2017, 19:06:47
No need for needle bearings in a swing arm.  Bronze bushings are an upgrade in this situation and needle bearings are for high rotational/high rpm loads.  You can also consider Oilite bushings.
All true. But needle bearings are still better (if they cost the same). And (regardless if needle/bronze/Oilite) it would be real convenient to get if the proper sizes were readily available as a set.
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 07, 2017, 10:16:53
I have some spare Denril (self lubricating nylon) laying around somewhere. I used it for my swingarm conversion instead Och bronze bushings. If you need it just tell me and I'll send you a PM on Facebook.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 10, 2017, 18:22:55
I have some spare Denril (self lubricating nylon) laying around somewhere. I used it for my swingarm conversion instead Och bronze bushings. If you need it just tell me and I'll send you a PM on Facebook.

Cheers man, I'll be looking into it over the coming Winter so may get in touch then :)
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 19, 2017, 14:44:25
A coupla context shots for the lads!
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: Eleganten on Aug 21, 2017, 17:05:44
Was it by any chance you I saw today in western Lund, by Netto around 1630? Just caught a glimpse of a black, small bike as I turned in to the parking lot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha SR250 - A clean standard build
Post by: JadusMotorcycleParts on Aug 21, 2017, 18:01:07
Was it by any chance you I saw today in western Lund, by Netto around 1630? Just caught a glimpse of a black, small bike as I turned in to the parking lot.

Dunno man, I was cruising around Lomma and Hjärup so maybe?  I filled up at the gas station at the roundabout there  ;)