74 CL360 solenoid clicks but starter won't turn over

hillset

Active Member
Hi Everyone-
I'm finishing up a rebuild on my 74 CL360 and I'm having a problem getting the starter motor to turn over. The starter motor is brand new so I don't think the issue is with the actual motor. When I press the start button, the solenoid clicks but the starter motor won't engage. Also, I noticed that the neutral light intermittently turns off and on. Before I tried pressing the start button, the neutral light was on, then it turned off when the solenoid clicked, and when I took out the key and put it back in the neutral light turned on again. After trying the start button several times, the neutral switch is now off completely and won't come back on. Things I've done so far:

I made sure the battery is fully charged and showing 12.6v, and I checked the volts at the battery terminal of the solenoid which also showed 12.6v. Without pressing the starter button, the starter motor pole of the solenoid also shows 12.6v and the wire going into the starter motor shows 12.6v as well. I also checked all 3 fuses and they're all good, and I cleaned the terminals on the solenoid just to make sure that wasn't the issue.

My best guess is there is a grounding issue somewhere but I have no idea where. I checked the main ground from the battery to the frame and it's clean and secure. I don't think I took off any other grounds when I took the engine out for the rebuild but I guess it's possible. If anyone has any suggestions on things to check or how I should work through this I'd really appreciate it. Thanks for everyone's help.
 
Definitely check ground. The neutral switch requires a ground to work, which is also required for the light to work.
 
Thanks for your help irk. This is probably a stupid question, but when you say check ground, is there anything besides making sure the ground wire terminals are clean and making good contact with the frame / battery? Is there a specific ground for the neutral switch or does it just run off of the main ground from battery negative terminal -> frame?
 
I had a similar problem on a CX500 I used to own. Start button was corroded and providing too much resistance in the circuit. The solenoid would click, but it wasn't enough to actually engage it. Took an absolute age to figure out.
 
Thanks for your help Sonreir. Corroded start button is definitely possible, the bike has been sitting for about a month while I work on it.

Is there a way to systematically work through the solenoid circuits? It's confusing to me why the starter motor pole on the solenoid is getting full volts from the battery without pressing the start button? If I get full volts at the starter motor, why isnt it turning over without pressing the start button?

Also, what's the best way to check the resistance at the start button circuit?

Thanks again for everyones help, I really appreciate it.
 
I have had a similar issue with my Volksrod. You need a significant number of your battery's amps to turn your starter over. You could also try to start it with a charger hooked to your battery, then if it starts disconnect the charger. I've had this work, since a voltage charge doesn't mean it has all of it's cranking amps.
 
Ok common things being common I just want to confirm my hookups to the solenoid are correct:

-One pole has just the starter motor connection

-One pole has battery and harness hooked up to it

-Two smaller wires coming off of the solenoid
-One is black and is connected to a four-way connection with hookups from the brake light assembly, the reg/rect, and a connection to the harness
-One is yellow/red and is connected to a yellow/red wire off the harness

Is this the correct connection? Also, I had the engine cases powder coated while I was doing the rebuild and the powder coater forgot to tape off the neutral switch connection. I cleaned off the brass connection where the neutral light wire connects to the neutral switch but I'm not sure if there's another spot in that area that might have gotten coated that could be causing a faulty ground? I can send a pic later today, I'll also try turning it over with the charger hooked up. Thanks for your help everyone.
 
You say that you have battery voltage AT the starter when pressing start (and hearing the solenoid actuate)? Either a bad starter (happens), bad starter ground (or engine ground), or the new starter is just setting in a spot where the new commutator/brushes aren't making contact. If there was good contact all the way through, all of these voltage points (battery, solenoid B and M terminals, starter input post) would sag to ~10.5 volts with a good starter. Did you run a good ground for the engine? Try running a good ground from a clean engine spot with ~8 gauge to the neg post on the battery, and make sure both the starter motor and engine are clesned of PC/paint where they mate and make the ground contact for the starter.
 
Thanks for the help pjdjones.

I rechecked the volts with the starter button pressed and here's what I got:

-Battery is showing 12.8v without starter button pressed - fully charged

-Neg multimeter to neg battery terminal, positive multimeter to battery post on solenoid shows 12.6v

-Neg multimeter to neg battery terminal, positive multimeter to starter post on solenoid shows 0v WITHOUT starter button pressed

-Neg multimeter to neg battery terminal, positive multimeter to starter post on solenoid shows ~10.5v WITH starter button pressed

-Neg multimeter to neg battery terminal, positive multimeter to starter motor connection shows ~9v WITH starter button pressed

The starter is brand new so I don't think that's the issue. I also took a wire wheel on a dremmel to the ground connection to the frame so I know the main ground is clean and paint free. Are those readings around what I should be getting?
 
You are getting readings that I would expect if all connections are good and bike is cranking or the engine is bound (sure it is free to rotate? Haven't hydro'd a cylinder by leaving gas on?) Or, the starter is bad. Try an auto jumper cable from battery + tapping the starter post. If it turns over, you have a poor contact in the wiring or solenoid. If it doesn't, try taking the starter out, connect a set of auto jumper cables from battery to the starter case (black leads) and tap the starter post with the red lead (connected to the battery + terminal. Would be good to have the starter in a vice or other clamp when you do this - it WILL twist like crazy otherwise. If it doesn't the starter is bad. Expect sparks on these tests - don't hold the + lead on real long, and try not to be startled. Oh yeah, wearing safety glasses always, right?
 
Ok so I was just checking it again and out of no where the starter engaged - but VERY slowly and sluggishly. Starter would crank but would turn the cam like 1 rev every 1-2 seconds and would stop after 1 turn. I closed the seat and tried kicking it a couple of times just to make sure the engine would freely rotate (I still haven't gotten it fired up after the rebuild so I'm nervous I'm forgetting something) and it feels like everything turns over, but when I tried to press the starter button again after closing the seat - the starter motor won't engage and the solenoid is back to just clicking.

I rechecked with the multimeter and here's the new numbers I'm getting

-Battery 12.6v

-Battery post on solenoid without start button pressed 12.6v

-Starter post on solenoid without start button pressed 4.6v

-Starter post on solenoid WITH start button pressed 12.4v

-Starter motor WITHOUT start button pressed 4.8v

-Starter motor WITH start button pressed 12.3v

So I'm actually getting more volts to the starter but not engaging? The starter turned over literally seconds after I posted the numbers before so I'm really confused about what this means. I'm thinking maybe one of the wires going into the solenoid is bad since it stopped working when I closed the seat, which could have pressed on one of the wires? Thanks again for all of your help, I really appreciate it.
 
Getting running with the kickstart and let the engine charge the battery a bit. Turn it off and see if it will start. I'm still not convinced your issue isn't cranking amps on your battery.
 
Irk - I was wondering if the battery isn't dead as well. Battery is fairly new, less than a year old, but some of the issues make me thing I'm right on the border of not having enough CCAs:

-When I push the start button, the neutral light turns off and then 1-2 seconds later slowly comes back on

-The sluggish start sounded like the bike trying to start on a weak battery

The battery is on a battery tender right now and it's showing a full charge, but is it possible for the battery tender to show a full charge on a battery with less than full CCAs?

How would I check if the battery has enough amps, should I take it to the auto shop and ask them to check it?
 
So I was just outside trying it again and I literally just bounced on the seat and saw the neutral light come on much brighter than it has before.

Tried the starter button and at least the starter is turning over fully now.

But still no ignition. I'll recheck the big things, check compression, spark, fuel - the kickstarter was turning the engine but I wasn't getting start off the kick so I'm not sure what's going on.

But at least I'm getting the starter to turn over, I think it must have been a weak connection somewhere at the solenoid since pushing on the area seems to cause / alleviate the symptoms.
 
So I don't have a spark at either plug. Im using brand new plugs and new new plug boots so I don't think those are the issue. I verified I'm getting ~12v to each plug boot without pressing the start button, so I don't understand why I'm not getting spark on either plug? If I have 12v at the boots that means I'm getting power from the battery to the coil/condenser and to the plugs, right?
 
Sounds like you need to go through your harness and check connections. As far as the battery thing: On my Volksrod, which is a V8 engine, I had a loose positive connection on the battery. Not even super loose. Like, you had to really push it to tell. The battery on the tender showed full charge. When I hit the start button, it wouldn't turn over. It would just click. I literally cranked the battery screw one half a turn to tighten it up and it started right up. How I figured out I had a low voltage issue was the relay on my fuse box would buzz, which suggests low voltage. It really doesn't take much on a loose connection to wreak havoc.
 
I know this is such a basic question but is there a writeup anywhere on tracing electrical problems back from the plugs? I'm wondering if the new boots are at fault since I KNOW I had spark when I took the engine apart for the rebuild but now that I've put new boots on I'm not getting spark on either side. I'm not sure if the boots are the problem though since both boots are showing ~5 ohm resistance. I guess it could be a connection issue somewhere but it would likely be upstream of the coils to cause issues on both sides, right?

I'm still confused how I'm getting 12v to both plug caps but no spark? If power is coming through the whole circuit to the plug caps that means there shouldn't be a connection issue, right?
 
12 volts is not what you expect at a spark plug boot. More like 30 kV, but only momentarily (it would be hard on your multimeter). The bounce on the seat indicates a bd connection. Stop right now and check everything from the battery out. Not just connection to the battery or solenoid, but from the wire to the connector. They can go bad and cause a world of problems. Then make sure your points are opening and closing. Don't worry about how much right now, just that they open and close. The check for spark.
 
Sorry I should clarify that the 12v at the boot is WITHOUT pressing the start button. I fried a multimeter a couple years ago testing volts at the boot with the start button pressed so I'm not going down that road again.

Sorry if this is a dumb question pdj but when you say check the wire to connector, do you mean check there isn't a voltage drop between wire to connector? So for example, check the volts at the battery, then check volts at the connector to the battery, then check volts to the wire, the check volts to the next connector, then check volts at the solenoid terminal, then check volts at the next terminal -> connector -> wire?

Also I should specify that I'm using a Pamco e-ignition instead of points, the unit was working fine before I took the engine off and I haven't changed any of the wiring so I don't think that's the issue causing no spark.

Thanks again for everyones help, can't tell you guys how much I appreciate it.
 
I'm concerned that you are able to read any voltage on the starter motor side of the solenoid. This should only the be the case if you're pressing the starter button. Battery is possibly an issue, but you almost definitely have a bad solenoid.
 
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