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Author Topic: cm450 more of a project than a build  (Read 10589 times)

Offline rattpunk

  • Posts: 229
cm450 more of a project than a build
« on: Apr 24, 2012, 22:55:15 »
Sup?


I picked up this bike a couple years back so I would have a ride out here in Boston.  Did the T (mass transit) the first year but that wasn't cutting it for me.  Being a pretty short dude and just getting around the city I wanted a smaller displacement older bike and this one didn't look that bad to me with the rattle-can grill paint, solo seat and straight bars the PO had put on her. That and it was about all that was around in my price range. Don't mind the instagram pic, my wife took it :)





Moving out from the Bay Area in Cali, I ended up selling most of my tools for expenses, and I don't have a garage so I've just been enjoying being able to ride. Recently though, some break parts broke and in getting to a cotter pin sounded like a great time to pull the exhaust. Long story short, two of the header bolts broke off in the process.  More rust than metal, you know the story.  I actually found DTT looking for ideas on how to get the bolts out with the least heartbreak.  I read about the pain of a broken EZout so just picked up a set of left hand bits a few people recommended in threads here.  I also had to do something to replace the exhaust and had thought about a MAC 2-1 but decided to get a replacement set of stock headers and put on shorties.  Call it a day. The only thing I've done other than maintenance was to swap out the bars for clubmans. They seemed like a much more comfortable and stable option.








So that's what I'll be up to this weekend, drilling out the bolts, throwing on the new pipes and making way too much noise around the block.  After that I'd like to finally clean up the tail light and blinkers.  I figure with one of the DCC cafe seats I can keep the rear fender, go with a light/plate combo on it, but then I'm stumped right now on where to put the signals.  Fabrication and welding are out of the question for now so any ideas would be appreciated.


I'm keeping myself away from the airbox and carbs so I can keep riding it this season but after I get the lights/signals sorted out I'll start planning that stage of the upgrades.


See ya round,
Tyler
"A problem well stated is a problem half solved." - Charles Kettering

Mongrel cm450

Offline Big Rich

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  • Posts: 9970
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Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #1 on: Apr 24, 2012, 23:37:34 »
Ouch. When it rains it pours I guess......

Before you try to drill out those bolts, try using a file or Dremel to flatten it out on 2 sides. If you do it close to the head, you might just be able to use a crescent wrench, channel locks, or some vice grips.

Offline bluesmoke69

  • Posts: 177
Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #2 on: Apr 25, 2012, 01:06:15 »
A little heat propane torch may help.

Offline rattpunk

  • Posts: 229
Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #3 on: Apr 25, 2012, 08:51:20 »
Thanks guys.  I'll see if either of those helps.
"A problem well stated is a problem half solved." - Charles Kettering

Mongrel cm450

Offline rattpunk

  • Posts: 229
Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 12:15:59 »
Well, a quick update with pics of my failure.  :-\  Both of the bolts ended up breaking flush or below the level of the head, so I had no choice but to drill (or so I thought at the time). As you may have guessed by the lack of a triumphant post last weekend, it didn't work out so well.  The center punch wasn't enough to keep me from wandering with the drill, so both the holes ended up off to a side.  I used a decent amount of Kano oil, but no heat, and as I didn't think to keep the rpms low the left hand bits did nothing to spin the bolts out. My pops was hanging out and suggested I just keep going with bigger bits and I couldn't think of a reason not too. In the end I'm just happy that I was able to notice the ez-out giving out on me and pulled it before the fucker broke itself into one of the studs.



Bent and twisted ez-out (would a better more expensive one help?  Seen them up to $100)



At this point, I was thinking about picking up a torch, and trying to tap them out slowly with a hammer and punch, just tapping them to the left after heating them up a bit.  A couple people told me that if I just took my time and stayed patient that method would work.  Couldn't hurt right?  If that doesn't work I was planning on removing the engine and having a local machine shop drill them out.  I honestly can't tell if I drilled into the threads when I wandered off center, so that may be an issue. 


Final damage, ended up drilling all the way through the bolt into the recess behind it. 




haha, oh, and to top it all off... the replacement bolts I got from bikebandit weren't the same size.(http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1982-honda-cm450c/o/m2133#sch17327)

old bolt from the left side header (those two came out ok) and the new too short bolt


Not sure how that got fucked, but it did, so move on right?
What are you're tips or links to threads to help a novice remove an engine?


In preperation for the tear-down, I raided the land-lady's garden shed and cleaned it up a bit to make room for storage and with some luck a small work-bench.



So, weather permitting, I'll be draining the gas and oil, storing the tank in the shed and prepping to remove the engine.  Never done anything that involved and am a bit nervous thinking about labeling everything right so it goes back together the right way. 

Maybe I should just move this to the 1-800-HELP section ;)
"A problem well stated is a problem half solved." - Charles Kettering

Mongrel cm450

Offline rattpunk

  • Posts: 229
Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 14:04:11 »
I've decided, for better or worse, I'm going all in on this.  You guys can put money down on which way this ends.  Tears of joy and proud triumph or tears of shame and another butchered project for sale/trade on CL.  Either way, I realized I shouldn't just keep fucking around with the engine on the bike just covered by a tarp in the driveway.  So I'm stripping it down and storing the parts in the shed and my basement. Since I want to take the engine off, I thought it would be a great learning experience to tear it down and build it up.  Most everything is begging for a replacement or at the lease a good wipe down.  Can't ride it right now so might as well right?  Famous last words... might as well 8)

Question: How should I best make sure to cover the holes in the enging and other parts to keep out moisture?  I'm obviously going to make things worse for myself with rags and saran wrap...


I really don't know how far I'll go in taking the bike apart. I know I won't be replacing the air-box, since I would have to buy new carbs, as I've been reading that the stock carbs aren't very adjustable. So, I've been going back and forth on whether or not to even remove them. I've just been focusing on the front end and anything connected to the engine. Without proper tools I've managed to mangle a fair share of old screws so I'll have to look into an impact driver or something to stop this habit of stripping everything I touch. Recommendations on tools for bad screws? Pretty much everything is broken or rusted out on the bike anyway, but I can't bear thinking about trying to drill out another bolt or screw after my exhaust bolt debacle  :-[ .  Which is still my biggest problem.  I did find a machine shop who told me to "bring it in" when I asked if they could remove the bolts from the engine. 


So here is where it stands since last weekend.









I couldn't believe how much this thing weighs...



I've still got to take the forks off to get the light brackets off, but I think they will go right back on.  Have to make a single day event out of that so I can keep a rolling chassis.  I'd like to lower the front as well, but still need to read up on how to do that.  If I'm pulling it apart to get those brackets off, it's be the perfect time to lower and add some gators.


Looks like next weekend I'll be buying a can to drain my gas into, pulling off the tank and trying to take the rest of the controls and cables off.  Of course none of this is going the way I planned so who knows what the future holds... ;)


My "workshop"; it has a leaky roof and if I keep anything important in here it's going to die from all the temp changes and moisture.  But it's a start and better than the driveway.  Probably jsut going to get a few air-tight bins.



Thanks for checkin up on me and as always any help or words of advice are going to make my life that much easier.  And seriously, if you see me doing something completely idiotic, even if that's everything I'm doing, call me out!  I really am learning as I go and am no doubt doing most of it wrong.
-Tyler
"A problem well stated is a problem half solved." - Charles Kettering

Mongrel cm450

Offline rattpunk

  • Posts: 229
Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 14:54:22 »
Thanks, I think I've got that lesson beat into my dome pretty good now  ;D


I hadn't even considered PB blaster, WD40, tapping the thing with a hammer or anything.  Just popped the socket on, twisted and *SNAP*!  Now the moment I see rust i've got like 5 cans of lube on hand.
"A problem well stated is a problem half solved." - Charles Kettering

Mongrel cm450

Offline VonYinzer

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Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 18:25:24 »
Keep at it man. You'll get to know all the little tricks eventually.

What exactly is your plan for the bike (sorry if you mentioned it already, Im lazy... ha)?

Like a river that don't know where it's flowin'
I took a wrong turn and just kept goin'

Offline Erskine

  • Posts: 2163
Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2012, 19:00:31 »
I know it's a bodge, but you could pick up/ borrow a tap and die set, drill out the stud hole to the next size up, thread it and use a larger diametre stud, or even just use bolts. The machine shop will just drill it out and slap a helicoil in to take it back down to the original size.
Keep at it ......... personally I'd keep it running and attack it bit by bit.

Offline Maritime

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  • Posts: 8833
Re: cm450 more of a project than a build
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2012, 19:00:39 »
Dude.  If you can wait a bit.  I have a perfectly goodi cm450 head you can have for shipping.  And I have itoo because when I waz pulling it ti fix cma tensioner 2 head bolts snapped and stripped in the bottom end and I got a motor for the price of the heli coils to fix it.  I just have to get it next time i am at where it is stored.  Pm me and I will let you know what shipping would cost.  Will be a couple weeks.  I would hate to have you not able to ride because of a couple of broken studs.
 I just spent 2 hours getting a siezed fork bolt our so.I.feel yuor pain
Maritime

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