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Author Topic: Cheap 'Pod' filters - why you shouldn't - Public service posting  (Read 43196 times)

Offline VonYinzer

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Thanks for posting this "over there". We sure "needed it".

Good to know you thibk the members of this site are idiots too.
Like a river that don't know where it's flowin'
I took a wrong turn and just kept goin'

Offline crazypj

  • Posts: 12467
  • Split personality, I fake being smart
That's a bit harsh Von, most people here can be 'educated' eventually (I guess I'm mellowing with age? ;D )
I see a lot of things repeated that I was getting flamed for 2~3yrs ago (tyres/rim width, fork brace, etc)
 There are less idiots who are going to do things no matter what advice is given though
'They' have to learn the hard way no matter what, if they don't like an answer they chase all over the forums until someone blows coloured smoke up their ass,you know it used to happen here a LOT
« Last Edit: Feb 03, 2013, 12:38:26 by crazypj »
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'
I gave my girlfriend an orgasm the other night, but, she spat it back at me
 Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry
 It’s not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren’t doing it  (Terry Pratchett)
CB360's,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0
XS650,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11922.0

Offline ronnie

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  • Calm down and sail on
Soooooo... What yall are saying is emgo pods are the superior pod filters? 


Hahaha! Just kidding, wink.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

HOLD FAST.

"'Today I Learned' that if you're going to drink all day you have to get started early." ~kop

CB350F/400Fpowered  "Dago": http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=35263.msg381531#msg381531

Offline MotorbikeBruno

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    • Carb cleaning in MN
That's a bit harsh Von, most people here can be 'educated' eventually (I guess I'm mellowing with age? ;D )
I see a lot of things repeated that I was getting flamed for 2~3yrs ago (tyres/rim width, fork brace, etc)
 There are less idiots who are going to do things no matter what advice is given though
'They' have to learn the hard way no matter what, if they don't like an answer they chase all over the forums until someone blows coloured smoke up their ass,you know it used to happen here a LOT

I agree, I don't seem to think of myself as an idiot, and have used the cheapy filters before (not on CV carbs..but the point has gotten across) I never really saw any "hard" evidence laid out as nice as the pictures.  I'll be chucking any I have in the bin and getting the correct ones on any bike I do from now on.  Something I just never looked up and assumed K&N was raking us over the coals.  Thanks PJ.

Offline jsharpphoto

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The previous owner of my superhawk installed emgo pods on to the stock rubber intakes, not directly to the cards (which are keihnin PW28, I think). It theyre mounted to the original intakes, they can't really be blocking the holes can they? I understand the shitty filtration from the mesh, but will I have these problems described here?

The bike is disassembled, I've never tried to run it.

Offline Tim

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You'd likely be fine, filtering and proper air flow aside.  Can't quite picture how pod filters are attached to intakes which are then attached to the carbs however.

For anyone wanting to save a few bucks, buy UNI foam filters.  Mine are $15 each and are awesome.
"Quality . . . you know what it is, yet you don't know what it is. But that's self-contradictory. But some things are better than others, that is, they have more quality. But when you try to say what the quality is, apart from the things that have it, it all goes poof! There's nothing to talk about. But if you can't say what Quality is, how do you know what it is, or how do you know that it even exists? If no one knows what it is, then for all practical purposes it doesn't exist at all. But for all practical purposes it really does exist."

Offline kopcicle

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That's got CV's? Take a #2 phillips screwdriver, heat the tip with a torch until cherry red and plunge it into your eye. It will hurt less. Really. Bikes with CVs have airboxes. Bikes with slide needle carbs have pods. Even Mark Dobeck, former owner of Dynajet, cops to a loss of midrange using his kits.

And for the other eye heat a 3/4" drill bit chucked up in an air drill ...

I can get BS34's to almost work on the 998-1100 with one serious caveat . They will pull hard with the throttle arbitrarily pinned OR they will mix fuel cleanly at part throttle cruise . Pick one I don't know how to give you both . Mark Dobeck and I went back and forth for most of a summer getting several of my customers bikes and my 998 urban terror two wheeler running right . The customers are probably still ****ed even though I neither recommended nor supplied this serious impediment to performance . In the end I knew neither was right (thanx for the flash runs Ron !) But the one that was the best and closest to right got me the most grief . That guy thinks I'm an idiot and in ten years hasn't wasted an opportunity to say so . Funny that the last two guys to touch it asked how I was able to get it so close . The one that isn't so good , that guy thinks I'm magic .

just a partial list

various attempts at
springs
needles
needle jets with and without discharge shields
pilots
mains
main air bleed
air horns within the air filters
closer to or further away from the head
adjustable cam sprockets
different headers ....

All because in one case the owner wanted to look like all the other cool kids
and the other thought it was a pain to get the carbs in and out with the stock aribox

coincidently both of these mental midgets went from 35-36 mpg to 30-31mpg and might have gained a couple of hp on top at the expense of having me spend untold hours filling a huge hole around 4k .

So I was asked recently if I would jet another 998 for "pods" ( is it that hard to say individual air filters ? really?) good thing I kept my notes .

Sure I would . With an eddy current dyno and by the hour ...

now for some straight info about  BS34's and a Z750  . if you want more look up BS and more BS in my earlier posts

Only after valve adjust ...
The pilot needs to show lean misfire within 1 1/4 from seat and rich misfire before 3 3/4 turns out from seat . Anything else outside this and inaccurate metering will most likely cover up all your hard work .
Then , Check the sync again ...
The stock needles are fine for all but full on racing . Why people insist on a "jet kit" is beyond me . I had many conversations over a period of several years with Mark Dobeck about individual filters on constant velocity , diaphragm carbs . Here are the high an low points of that discussion .
Great full throttle response , great part throttle cruise , pick one . You just don't get both .
The larger the volume within the individual filter the better your result .
Finding a velocity stack that will fit over the carb and inside the filter is never a bad thing until its opening is shrouded or interfered with by the filter .
Most (even dynojet's long running offering for cv34's ) needles supplied with jet kits are aluminum for ease of production and not steel for durability .
You really need to find out what the stock needle was and then look for it in the SUDCO catalog .
Find the main air bleed/jet on the inlet to the carb . This will be a fixed brass jet that unmistakably leads to the main down well that the emulsion tube , main jet , and main discharge to the throttle bore reside in . Remember this is a fixed jet and difficult (not impossible) to change . Small diameter changes in this jet can cover the usual giant hole between idle/transfer and the beginning of the midrange .
Likewise for the holes in the bottom of the main slide . remember small adjustments and accurate adjustments . A slide can be easily ruined . ( yes enlarge the hole slightly )
Paul was right I do have some experience with individual filters on CV carbs . None of it good .
but as a baseline for stock internals and 1000cc "j" engine
http://www.sudco.com/CatalogJPG/126.jpg and a call to sudco about the next richer mikuni needle up from your 4cb6 ( look it up at kawasaki I could be senile) 4cb7 Canada (has multiple circlip grooves ) The as stock Y-8 (again look it up) should be sufficient needle jet for all but "why arn't you using flat slides"
sooo
40 pilot
127.5 main
open main air bleed .025 to .035"
open the hole in the bottom of the slide a like amount
start with the needle all the way down and use .015" washers as needed to lift or get the Canadian part . (you did junk the no name needles , didn't you ? )
If at all possible find the larger volume tapered oval filters .
If it won't clean out at all it's obvious , down jet
If it just won't pull redline use this simple trick . Cover the filters with cotton gym socks . No change ? it's probably something else , starts to pull on top ? you're probably lean .
Make damn sure that the fuel/float level and the needle valve/seat are near perfect as possible .
Get rid of that abortifact of a vacuum petcock and spend a dollar on pingle .
You don't need the emissions crap either . Block off the valve cover and remove the air valve .
keep in mind that the 127.5 main I used was because of a free flowing head and a Basanni that had little if no restriction . Honestly if you find yourself much over 120 you're doing it wrong
Now go adjust your valves before you do anything

A bit dated but the process is the same even if the carb and displacement are different . PM me if you have specific questions . I'll be more than willing to run up your phone bill or run minutes of your plan if you get stuck stoned or stupid .  Just don't consider taking up my time with carb questions unless the valves are adjusted correctly and the timing is spot on (applies to points mostly but there are cases where the timing/coils of a electronic ignition can be crap).

I won't even talk carbs with you until the above is done and verified it's just a waste of your time and mine.

I go back to my 70's race PrOn collection a continue to be a grumpy old man

~kop

"If a man wants to carry two cats home by their tails, by all means let him. He’ll learn things that he might not have otherwise even guessed, and the experience will be one he’ll not soon forget!"

~S. Clemens

If it leaks after all this? I'm gonna pull a "Brad" and bulldoze the fucker!

Quote from: Scruffy;1025553
As an equal opportunity bigot, I'll insult any brand, any style, any time...:wink:
-Scruffy

http://tinyurl.com/TheRedBike

Redliner: me? But I'm not a little girl any more
Nov 13, 2013, 19:20:58

Offline Ringo

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I'm inclined to think if people really want to do better, and have a real interest in their machine, they'll search out info like this on their own.  If they're too lazy to do anything besides post up a problem and wait to be spoon fed, I don't want anything to do with them.  This isn't rocket science.  It's pretty easy to understand this stuff if you put forth a little effort.  And those that don't will probably move on fairly quickly.  Fine by me!
Chris

Offline crazypj

  • Posts: 12467
  • Split personality, I fake being smart
That's why I just tell people to send me 350/360 carbs.
It may not be perfect but it is damn sight closer than majority of jetting mods. (still a little rich through to 6k but no massive 'holes')
Even the late great Leon Moss (Ledar Racing Dvelopments) couldn't get CB750/900 carbs working without re-manufacturing the carb bodies into 2 jet 'conventional style' CV
He did almost convince Kawasaki to use 'Fresh Air Ram Technology System'  on the 750 with 'vacuum cleaner' hoses through the tank (I forget model, around 1990?)
Someone noticed it would say Kawasaki FARTS which killed that idea  ;D

'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'
I gave my girlfriend an orgasm the other night, but, she spat it back at me
 Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry
 It’s not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren’t doing it  (Terry Pratchett)
CB360's,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0
XS650,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11922.0

Offline ProSimex

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"That's got CV's? Take a #2 phillips screwdriver, heat the tip with a torch until cherry red and plunge it into your eye. It will hurt less. Really."


Man Kopsicle that shit is going in my signature
"Love is the feelin you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle."

"That's got CV's? Take a #2 phillips screwdriver, heat the tip with a torch until cherry red and plunge it into your eye. It will hurt less. Really."- Kopcicle