small diameter springs/shocks for CB360

MiniatureNinja

Coast to Coast
DTT BOTM WINNER
I am trying to find a good replacement suspension setup for my CB360 - almost every replacement setup uses springs that are like 3" and look really ugly and out of place on the bike.

these http://4into1.com/reproduction-chrome-shocks-eye-clevis-321mm-12-5-8-honda-cb360t-400f-500t-550/ seam to fit the ticket of small diameter and minimal but they are so cheap - progressive springs would be nice but I am not picky
 
irk miller said:
I run Hagon on mine. They're pretty much perfect.

I see that name a lot, seams to be the standard for vintage bikes - I see they have a "slimline" SA shock but no mention of diameter, they do seam to be more like what I am looking for - thanks!
 
You don't really need or want shocks that skinny.
They would be fine on a 100 or 125 but I wouldn't use them on anything bigger.
Thhe cheap Chinese 'piggyback' shocks look OK and can be made to work as well as $300.00 shocks but do require re-building at around $100.00 (still only about half of what good shocks cost 'out of the box)
Here's pic of mine this morning, paint on springs pretty faded but otherwise OK Springs are about 2-1/2" wide
 

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Hey, PJ. Do You know of a good resource for how to rebuild Chinese shocks Or care to point me in a direction? Do you need a mill or lathe?
 
Sorry, the information is all over the place, I posted some in 360 build/blog.
I made new longer lower sections plus various 'special tools' to make life easier dismantling damper unit.
A lathe will make making things easier but to take them apart you can use alternatve methods.
One of the bigger issues is getting tops out of body, pushing down and removing circlip is easy but o-ring catches on the groove and locks things up. You need a sleeve of some sort to keep o-ring compressed (I managed to damage one top dismantling first set, wasn't a problem as I already intended to make different design)
 
crazypj said:
Sorry, the information is all over the place, I posted some in 360 build/blog.
I made new longer lower sections plus various 'special tools' to make life easier dismantling damper unit.
A lathe will make making things easier but to take them apart you can use alternatve methods.
One of the bigger issues is getting tops out of body, pushing down and removing circlip is easy but o-ring catches on the groove and locks things up. You need a sleeve of some sort to keep o-ring compressed (I managed to damage one top dismantling first set, wasn't a problem as I already intended to make different design)


PJ: wrecking stuff and making mistakes since 1970ish so we can learn and do it right the first time!

;D
 
......................................around 1968 ;) (that makes me feel old now)
 
You don't need a lathe or a mill, but some tools help. A spring compressor is needed, and I use a special fixture to remove the piston/rod assembly form the bodies. The stock lower perches are fine and I've never seen one fail, though crazy's perches do look good. I've seen some RFY's with more than 10k miles that look like new inside (I rebuilt them before they hit the road).
 
You can probably cut a sleeve from a disposable water bottle or similar., the plastic is probably thin enough and strong enough?
For more expensive or OEM shocks there are 'wedge shaped nylon rings that fit into the machined 'groove'
 
You don't need a sleeve at all.

Here's the trick. Let all the pressure out of the reservoir using a straight pick or small screw driver. Find a socket that has a drive side large enough to fit over the Schrader valve assembly but small enough OD to fit inside the reservoir cap. Set the top eye of the shock on a wood block, hold the socket into the cap, whack the assembly with your rubber mallet. After a decent go the cap will depress. Holding the cap depressed let out any remaining pressure at the Schrader valve. Now whack the assembly a couple more times until it depresses further. Let the pressure out again. The cap should be well below the snap ring groove at this point. You can now pick the snap ring out with a straight pick or small screw driver.

I've done like at least 1000 of these things, it's like a 30 second process to remove the bladder and cap at this point. That said, I know the idiosyncrasies, so I'm probably over simplifying.

From there it’s just a matter of air pressure.
 
Sav0r said:
You don't need a sleeve at all.

Here's the trick. Let all the pressure out of the reservoir using a straight pick or small screw driver. Find a socket that has a drive side large enough to fit over the Schrader valve assembly but small enough OD to fit inside the reservoir cap. Set the top eye of the shock on a wood block, hold the socket into the cap, whack the assembly with your rubber mallet. After a decent go the cap will depress. Holding the cap depressed let out any remaining pressure at the Schrader valve. Now whack the assembly a couple more times until it depresses further. Let the pressure out again. The cap should be well below the snap ring groove at this point. You can now pick the snap ring out with a straight pick or small screw driver.

I've done like at least 1000 of these things, it's like a 30 second process to remove the bladder and cap at this point. That said, I know the idiosyncrasies, so I'm probably over simplifying.

From there it’s just a matter of air pressure.

That's pretty much what I expected to happen, right up until it stuck and broke things. Suzuki and Yamaha had used similar 'plugs' since at least late 1960's but on those, the circlip grove was machined differently to allow o-ring to slide out.
I don't know if it was a burr or just sharp edge but no way was the o-ring coming out from the circlip groove (could be it was machined to close to correct size?) I never tried any others without using the 'wedge' in circlip groove, keeps 0-ring compressed so zero chance of anything 'hanging up'
Surprisingly, when Suzuki introduced fuel injected RMZ450, they required an almost identical (although substantially larger diameter) nylon 'wedge' for the exact same reason as seal housing would not come out of shock body. Maybe slight design change in shape of groove allowing less wall thickness or something?
 
I'm not sure to be honest. I've never damaged a bladder on the way out. I've certainly seen them pinched from the "factory" though. If you ever need parts hit me up, I have some spares. I have everything from bladders to head seals and everything in between. In fact I have a sweet head seal upgrade that fixes some of the inherent design flaws of the stock unit.
 
I went and found parts, (still in pieces from 2011 ish) The various surgeries I had back then (until 2013>) kinda stopped me doing anything with my bikes (pretty much stopped me doing everything for a while)
No burrs just a 'sharp' edge
I'm going to make new seal heads sometime and thinking of new longer damper rods (probably solid, ground and polished stainless steel?)
Shocks will be for 'blue bike' I will probably need heavier springs as I'm using longer swing arm (XR200) plus want to move shock mounts forward so will have increased leverage. I have various springs here so will be doing a bit of swapping around eventually Haven't gotten too far with things in 6 yrs so no rush ;D
 
I run RaceTech springs on mine.

I think the rods are 12.2mm, but if you don't bumping up to half inch you can find chromed flexproof (1045) rod pretty cheap. I have 6 foot of the stuff on my rack for the dampers I'm building from scratch. Since you are doing seal heads you can just go for a .5" impregnated linear bearing, that's what I use in my design. I stay away from stainless when I can, but I think stainless rods tend to be stickier than chromed and polished rods, as a result they aren't often used in dampers.
 
Good info, I think you sent me a link for 1/2" 1045 'piston chromed rod?
Was going to use stainless as I have some 1/2" rod to play with.
Are the linear bearings sintered bronze? (aluminum bronze, nickel bronze, etc)
 
Maybe I did? Haha I can’t remember.

That’s what I use. It’s good stuff to machine. I don’t even turn my rods. I do them right on the mill with a three jaw on the table. I do threads an all this way.

I use the oil impregnated “oil lite” bushings. They can be found on McMaster. Being bathed in shock oil means they seemingly last forever. At least in my conditions.
 
Yep, sintered bronze bushings probably double length of stock will guide rod much better and as you say, pretty much last 'forever'
Sorry to be 'highjacking' thread but I'm pretty sure you find this discussion interesting
 
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