Some kinda Monster

RR100 said:
I disagree. I have seen dyno A/F's with just the removal of the cat, maintaining the stock cans, have a bike run around 15:1
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What was the starting point? Was the bike carbbed or EFI? What year was the bike made? A 15:1 reading is lean, but doesn't mean much without a base line.
 
Sonreir said:
What was the starting point? Was the bike carbbed or EFI? What year was the bike made? A 15:1 reading is lean, but doesn't mean much without a base line.
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Most bikes will start burning plugs etc., around fifteen and a half to one or so, so 15:1 is quite lean as a general condition. Way before this though, you usually see lots of throttle response issues, flat spots, etc.

The biggest issue with the o2 sensor as a tuning aid is that it can only compensate in steady state situations, and always behind the actual combustion events it is monitoring. If you twist the throttle wide open, the O2 will only adjust to what it is seeing not what the motor is actually breathing..
 
As an aside, I just saw your website Sonreir. I wish I would have found it before I just bought a Shorai Li Ion Battery. Next time I need a battery I'll head over.

R
 
RR100 said:
As an aside, I just saw your website Sonreir. I wish I would have found it before I just bought a Shorai Li Ion Battery. Next time I need a battery I'll head over.
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Thanks. The earthX stuff is the only battery we've considered carrying. Quality part for sure.


Also, 15:1 is a very common mixture for modern vehicles. Less hydrocarbon emissions and the cat takes care of the "noxides".

A/F chart from a Duc GT1000 attached. Green line is stock setup. It hovers around 15:1 constantly.
 

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Sonreir said:
Thanks. The earthX stuff is the only battery we've considered carrying. Quality part for sure.


Also, 15:1 is a very common mixture for modern vehicles. Less hydrocarbon emissions and the cat takes care of the "noxides".

A/F chart from a Duc GT1000 attached. Green line is stock setup. It hovers around 15:1 constantly.
Click to expand...

That is the A/F chart I mentioned earlier from fatduc. As remarked before, this is only for 3-3.5K and that is designed lean to pass emissions in that narrow testing band, where the o2 sensor is read precisely for emission reasons. IF the bike was running 15 to one at higher RPMs it would be very lean. Most bikes like around 13:1 as an example, for optimum response and power..
 
RR100 said:
That is the A/F chart I mentioned earlier from fatduc. As remarked before, this is only for 3-3.5K and that is designed lean to pass emissions in that narrow testing band, where the o2 sensor is read precisely for emission reasons. IF the bike was running 15 to one at higher RPMs it would be very lean. Most bikes like around 13:1 as an example, for optimum response and power..
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Yup. Absolutely. But I have yet to see modern EFI bike with cooked plugs from running at that range. The reason emissions test at that RPM is that's because engines spend most of their time.

But back to the original point, I have yet to see the swap to a new exhaust system throw out ratios to a point where damage will occur; especially on a modern vehicle.
 
Sonreir said:
Yup. Absolutely. But I have yet to see modern EFI bike with cooked plugs from running at that range. The reason emissions test at that RPM is that's because engines spend most of their time.

But back to the original point, I have yet to see the swap to a new exhaust system throw out ratios to a point where damage will occur; especially on a modern vehicle.
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Most modern bikes spend most of their time at 3k? Are you in earnest? A new exhaust, depending on if it is just a new muffler, or a cat bypass and free flow muffler, will at minimum require changes in jets to compensate for the lean conditions on carb bikes, and re-flashes of the ECU on injected bikes (Or piggyback controllers) to ensure the bikes don't have AT MINIMUM issues with throttle response and flat spots, and to avoid potentially sufficiently lean conditions to damage the motor. Will this happen in the first 100 miles? Generally no. As an engineer, I simply wanted to ensure people had the best information on the subject. You may be happy with your modifications.
 
RR100 said:
Most modern bikes spend most of their time at 3k? Are you in earnest? A new exhaust, depending on if it is just a new muffler, or a cat bypass and free flow muffler, will at minimum require changes in jets to compensate for the lean conditions on carb bikes, and re-flashes of the ECU on injected bikes (Or piggyback controllers) to ensure the bikes don't have AT MINIMUM issues with throttle response and flat spots, and to avoid potentially sufficiently lean conditions to damage the motor. Will this happen in the first 100 miles? Generally no. As an engineer, I simply wanted to ensure people had the best information on the subject. You may be happy with your modifications.
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Closed loop operation runs up until about 6K RPM, but is also dependent upon throttle position.

But I think we're maybe saying similar things. Yes, the bike will definitely benefit from fueling changes of some sort. Is an ECU flash required? Probably not. But it will be better if you do.
 
Sonreir said:
Closed loop operation runs up until about 6K RPM, but is also dependent upon throttle position.

But I think we're maybe saying similar things. Yes, the bike will definitely benefit from fueling changes of some sort. Is an ECU flash required? Probably not. But it will be better if you do.
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Well, Sonreir, it sounds like you are reasonably happy with your DanMoto exhaust and "ECU-fooler". If I do exhaust on the monster, I will likely go that route. Also, got confirmation that they make a DB killer for the GP style exhaust.

So, is it "piss off the neighbors" loud or just "boy, you have one noisy bike there"?
 
Two reasons:

First, I like it loud. It's still quieter than my buddy's KZ650 on open pipes, though.

Second, the dB killer adds a restriction in the exhaust system. Not good for power.
 
Got the bike back yesterday.

I still have to figure out the front fender. I think it is one of the key design elements of the stock bike. I'm not sure if I'm gonna run it or not. I suppose if the bike ever leaves pavement I'll want it on there. Aaaaand with those tires, why would I stay on the pavement?
 
That front tire will carry a lot of debris that will fling up onto the under side and out in front of you to run into... fenders were never invented for there cool factor. Course you can run roost guards and keep the duck bill down all the time :eek:
 
Trust me, as someone who rides an enduro everyday, you want a front fender with those tires. Mud or not, it's coming back at you. They're really good at throwing stuff high in the air too, plus at everyone around you.
 
I added the front fender back on. We were certain that it wouldn't clear the tires. Turns out, it fits fine with no modification.


I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the "tracker" bars, some Oury BMX grips and some cheap adjustable levers.


Here is the side shot. I need to roll the bars back a few degrees. Still up in the air about the exhaust. Also, not sure I really like the side covers.
 
That thing is the sexy man... Put some 3M on that leading and bottom edge to save that beautiful paint too... :p
 
Ok, I've been fussing about with the Monster for a little while now. I pulled the side covers because it looks better with out. I have been planning a funky headlight mod for a little while now. Here's the mock up. I know none of the lenses are clocked right in this picture. I have since remedied this.


The light on the right will serve as the low beam/running light. There are parking bulbs in the stacked lights which also come on with the running light.The stacked bulbs will serve as high beams. Seems to work well in the garage. I've harvested the factory headlight for a project a long, long time from now.
 
I'm also contemplating a tank swap. The tank is one part of the bike I really hate. I'm just not sure how big I want to go on this one.

This tank is form California Cycleworks.

Here it is installed:
 
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