King Kenny rides again
- Thread starter adams77
- Start date
klx678
Been Around the Block
I saw it the first time...
I was there that Saturday evening at the Indiana State Fair in 1975...
It was the most incredible evening of flat track I've ever seen... and this bike wasn't the only reason. There were 4 other TZs and another three or four Kawasaki H2 triples. The mix of sound was incredible. The two strokes flew. In the trophy dash (a sort of consey race for those not making the final) Don Castro would blow by two Harleys on the straights only to be overtaken in the corner, due to running the four stroke line. The only rider who figured out the line and how to ride them was obviously KR, going in deep and squaring off the corner. There were six frames - Steve Baker, Rick Hocking, Don Vesco, Randy Cleek, Skip Aksland, and Kenny Roberts got them. Vesco didn't show, Cleek had electrical issues, Hocking seized a cylinder, Baker wasn't back into the swing of flat tracking, but Aksland and obviously Roberts did better.
The ban was ridiculous and short sighted. At that time KR was anti about anything 750, wanting GP in the US to go to 500. (If you have been into motorcycle racing long enough, you might remember in the mid-late 80s KR was also against racing four strokes along with some others like Eddie Lawson, they called them "diesels".) I think the real issue had more to do with tire wear/grip problems than with the power. The TZ as a road racer got the same reception, but wasn't banned and went on to have one of the best safety records of any roadracer. There was a great level headed review and actual ride test of Steve Baker's Champion framed TZ in the January 1976 Cycle World magazine.
The magazine article debunks all the current myth that surrounds the development of the bike and the "demon" reputation. Yamaha wouldn't even cooperate with Doug Schwerma to build the bike. They were comfortable with Roberts on the twin until he started getting his ass kicked... then and only then did Yamaha work with Schwerma, long after he'd developed the general bike with Rick Hocking doing the test riding at places like Ascot. Roberts' first ride was Saturday at Indy and he won. No development, just get on and ride. Figure out the gearing in general and go.
It's often led me to wonder what might have been if they'd let it go a bit. Maybe a big bag two stroke cound have resulted with two cylinders firing at once or any variation, with a pressed together crank. The ban took out ALL multis over two cylinders.
That resulted in what we see today on the flat track - a parade of 1980 dirt track technology. Imagine if they'd have banned the TZ in roadracing... we might be watching 500 singles and 350 twins still.
I bought a copy to replace the one I got back in 1976 and lent someone never to see it again.
I've got the article scanned and in an MSword documet if you might want a copy just email me.
.
I was there that Saturday evening at the Indiana State Fair in 1975...
It was the most incredible evening of flat track I've ever seen... and this bike wasn't the only reason. There were 4 other TZs and another three or four Kawasaki H2 triples. The mix of sound was incredible. The two strokes flew. In the trophy dash (a sort of consey race for those not making the final) Don Castro would blow by two Harleys on the straights only to be overtaken in the corner, due to running the four stroke line. The only rider who figured out the line and how to ride them was obviously KR, going in deep and squaring off the corner. There were six frames - Steve Baker, Rick Hocking, Don Vesco, Randy Cleek, Skip Aksland, and Kenny Roberts got them. Vesco didn't show, Cleek had electrical issues, Hocking seized a cylinder, Baker wasn't back into the swing of flat tracking, but Aksland and obviously Roberts did better.
The ban was ridiculous and short sighted. At that time KR was anti about anything 750, wanting GP in the US to go to 500. (If you have been into motorcycle racing long enough, you might remember in the mid-late 80s KR was also against racing four strokes along with some others like Eddie Lawson, they called them "diesels".) I think the real issue had more to do with tire wear/grip problems than with the power. The TZ as a road racer got the same reception, but wasn't banned and went on to have one of the best safety records of any roadracer. There was a great level headed review and actual ride test of Steve Baker's Champion framed TZ in the January 1976 Cycle World magazine.
The magazine article debunks all the current myth that surrounds the development of the bike and the "demon" reputation. Yamaha wouldn't even cooperate with Doug Schwerma to build the bike. They were comfortable with Roberts on the twin until he started getting his ass kicked... then and only then did Yamaha work with Schwerma, long after he'd developed the general bike with Rick Hocking doing the test riding at places like Ascot. Roberts' first ride was Saturday at Indy and he won. No development, just get on and ride. Figure out the gearing in general and go.
It's often led me to wonder what might have been if they'd let it go a bit. Maybe a big bag two stroke cound have resulted with two cylinders firing at once or any variation, with a pressed together crank. The ban took out ALL multis over two cylinders.
That resulted in what we see today on the flat track - a parade of 1980 dirt track technology. Imagine if they'd have banned the TZ in roadracing... we might be watching 500 singles and 350 twins still.
I bought a copy to replace the one I got back in 1976 and lent someone never to see it again.
I've got the article scanned and in an MSword documet if you might want a copy just email me.
.
Kev Nemo
Honda Hacker
I always thought (and was told) they didn't run inline 4s or 750's because of width of the motor. The front to back shot looks alot like my bike's profile with the new seat and tank (which not alot of people seem to dig around here). The speed and agility is crazy though; I want the better tires to see what else it can do ;D
klx678
Been Around the Block
Kev Nemo said:
In the Cycle World article there was mention of a CB750 based flat tracker that had some limited success on a regional basis. So actually you are not so far out in left field making a 750/4 street tracker - there were some actual racers built before the AMA eliminated anything over a twin. Ronnie Rall (old pro from the mid-west) ran a Suzuki 750 triple water buffalo at one time and others ran the Kawasaki 750 H2. Now you realize just what was taken away by the AMA.
Like I said, they could have developed the TZ and the big advantage of the TZ for the privateer was that they could make a competitive mile bike by simply having a rolling chassis and their retuned roadrace engine. Schwerma used as many TZ parts including pipes to make it economical as possible. The way it was they would need a roadracer, a mile bike, actually a half mile bike since the two were so different in so many ways, and short tracker back then. The National Championship drew points from all four arenas of racing.
klx678
Been Around the Block
It also should be mentioned that this bike brought out some experimentation with tires since the Carlisles, Pirelli MT53s, early Goodyear DTs, and Dunlop K70s weren't holding up to the horespower of even the twins of the time. KR adapted roadrace tires, cutting up some rain tires to try them out to get traction with the TZ. Most likely they didn't work because the compound would be way soft, but it is also possible that the thought process brought on better design tires for a time. There were tire issues again in the 80s and I think wider rims and tires along with some more compound development took carre of that for a time. Like in road racing as tires get better horsepower goes higher in a vicious cycle.
By the way, consider painting your front fender semi-gloss black to make it more unnoticable and blend in with the tire in appearance. You may like it. Besides if you just try it without scuffing the chrome you can always strip it off without any problems and still have the chrome look ok.
Also, where are you located? I know a place here in Dover Ohio that is breaking down a large quantity of old 80s bikes and know they sold a whole GL650 front end forks, wheel, and all with the Honda twin piston double disc brake set up for under $200. Might be of interest if you're close enough. They've likely got a lot of other ones there that would work for your application too.
By the way, consider painting your front fender semi-gloss black to make it more unnoticable and blend in with the tire in appearance. You may like it. Besides if you just try it without scuffing the chrome you can always strip it off without any problems and still have the chrome look ok.
Also, where are you located? I know a place here in Dover Ohio that is breaking down a large quantity of old 80s bikes and know they sold a whole GL650 front end forks, wheel, and all with the Honda twin piston double disc brake set up for under $200. Might be of interest if you're close enough. They've likely got a lot of other ones there that would work for your application too.
