clutch hand fatigue -clip ons

So after bratting out my '72 CB500 one big issue is clutch hand fatigue. Running clip ons. My left hand has had it after a moderate ride. I have gone through the cable and shortened it, routing is good, I have disassembled and cleaned the inner workings. It is a pretty stiff handle to start with I guess. I'm thinking the ergonomics are just stressing. Is this a common issue with clip ons? I can try to rotate the whole bar a bit to seek out better position but I've done that before. Just wondering if I'm the only one with a really tired clutch hand.

Do you find yourself putting a lot of force on the bars, in your palms, during normal riding?

Have you recently serviced your clutch assembly?

Did you encounter even moderate fatigue in your clutch hand with the stock bars?

If no, has anything else been worked on or changed, including the perch or lever?

Clutch springs?

Yes, clip on bars can induce fatigue. Although a flurry of people will denounce the notion because they use them and don't want to admit it, clip ons are a race inspired mod that will undoubtedly have trade-offs when pleasure riding.

Yes, there's a lot of pressure on my palms. Clutch has been gone through. It doesn't feel overly stiff compared to what it always has been or compared to other bikes. I'm pretty sure it's just the new hand position compounds an already (normally) stiffish clutch. I do remember fatigue back when it was stock too, like in a stop and go traffic jam but that was rare, normal riding wasn't a problem.
I hear you on the trade offs on clip ons and the whole cafe/brat mod. I went into this worried about the seat and never thought I'd have issues with my hands. I'll fiddle with it, maybe move to euro bars or something. Good thing I left almost everything reversible.
Don't get me wrong I really love the position it's aggressive and just totally cool, I love riding it but I'll have to get it a compromise somehow because as it is I guess I'm too far to the left on the; form....vs.....function continuum.
Could always go off the deep end and do a jockey shift!

If you wanted to go down the rabbit hole I'm pretty sure there arw some hydraulic clutch kits available for your bike.

Lots of times techs will toss in a set of drag (stiff) springs to get another squeeze out of a clutch but it usually comes down to parts between the bars and throw, nothing is better than new. A new cable and perch always seems to turn things into butter smooth actuation.

If you know the clutch is fresh or good and the basket is not like a gnarly shark jaw... go simple first and freshen the control.

I like this perch: For the money it's as good as any.

well, maybe my assumption that my clutch bits are "fine" was too much a leap of faith.
I've had it apart, examined the plates and such, cleaned and oiled them, lubed the cable, shortened it, pulled and greased the bits in the engine case, pulled that actuating rod thing out, made sure it wasn't broken, greased it. I've read the early CB500 clutch set up was a bit of a pig. Even though I've maintained my own bikes for many years that doesn't mean I know what I'm doing! I'm not sure what to look for on the basket. I'll have to do some research on that. Thanks for the input.
I think I'll make sure all is as good as it should be before I go in a different direction.

Wow thanks for the in depth response, that makes a discussion so much easier!

jvandyke said:

Yes, there's a lot of pressure on my palms.

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This is a catalyst for the hand fatigue. If you can simply be aware of this, and when it is practical and safe during your rides, i.e., long straight runs, try not to lean on em so hard. It will help.

jvandyke said:

Clutch has been gone through. It doesn't feel overly stiff compared to what it always has been or compared to other bikes.

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Ok. Not to question your work, but did you install new springs?

Can you tell us what your definition of 'gone through' is? Thanks.

Since it feels comparable to similar bikes, chances are all is well.

jvandyke said:

I'm pretty sure it's just the new hand position compounds an already (normally) stiffish clutch.

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Me too.

jvandyke said:

I do remember fatigue back when it was stock too, like in a stop and go traffic jam but that was rare, normal riding wasn't a problem.

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Ok. This could possibly lead to some resarch on what springs you have, and what you can get by with without letting the clutch slip. You'd be surprised.

One way to closely interpret the spring rate is to set a bathroom scale on your drill press and use the chuck to push down exacly one inch on the spring, then record the number of pounds shown on the scale. This will give you a very close to correct value for spring rate, and more importantly will allow you to record and compare the rates of different springs, so that you can decide where the best tradeoff between performance and clutch pull lies.

jvandyke said:

I hear you on the trade offs on clip ons and the whole cafe/brat mod. I went into this worried about the seat and never thought I'd have issues with my hands. I'll fiddle with it, maybe move to euro bars or something. Good thing I left almost everything reversible.

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The seat can still be a factor. It also determines riding position. Yours is far better than most brat bikes, I must say.

Nothing wrong with trying other bars.

jvandyke said:

Don't get me wrong I really love the position it's aggressive and just totally cool, I love riding it but I'll have to get it a compromise somehow because as it is I guess I'm too far to the left on the; form....vs.....function continuum.

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Cool. at least you get it.

jvandyke said:

Could always go off the deep end and do a jockey shift!

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Please don't. :-\



vonyinzer has a great suggestion with the hydraulic clutch kit idea.

Great stuff, will put this on the to-do list this winter (one more day to ride tomorrow and then it'll be put up for the season).
This bike has been in the family since '73. In my possession for the last 5 years or so. I can say with 90% surety it is (was) bone stock apart from the shorty pipes. It had 6,000 on the clock when I got it. Unfortunately it was heavily corroded and pitted with heavy paint wear and tank dents so I decided to do to it what I wanted, despite the low miles it was "too far gone" to bring back IMHO. Rebuilt carbs, points and such, cleaned and sealed tank, went through brakes. Rode it.
Long story short (too late?).
The only thing I've done to the clutch was take it apart because it used to "stick". The plates would stick together (I assume) when cold. Playing with different oil and usage seems to have alleviated that. Sometimes it'll find a false neutral when riding hard but even that is rare.
So, I should probably really "go through" the clutch I guess, and renew the springs, they're old but only have 14,000 on 'em.

Try to remember to come back here and add any updates good or bad, these threads can help prevent forum clutter when the problem is solved and detailed for the next guy/gal in the same boat.

Good luck!!

an observation the clutch and brake lever blades are to level they should be rotated on the bar so they are closer to 45 degrees down.and you should be riding elbows out elbows bent elbows up those bars are too flat as well
having your arms positioned correctly with a very realxed forward attitude on the bike with significant bend at the elbows is a must they should be bowed out and up
but that is the problem with bars positioned low forward and narrow on a street bike because that type of bar is only useful for one thing a racing crouch and getting out of the wind its not because it is better for control,to the contrary control at many situations is lacking with low narrow forward bars
they do allow higher corner entry and to carry that speed because of center of balance shifted forward
but you cant ride to the show n shine tucked in like barry sheene on a 4 square 500 suzi can you ?
but the only place you can get away with that type of seating position ,besides a racetrack,, tucked under the paint,is a lonely twisty road

riding around with elbows locked out straight because of trafic you gotta see over and around is why that type of bar is just plain dumb poserism on the street.. not only does it hurt but because sitting upright elbows locked straight ,hands low,you not only look like a fool who doesn't even know how to ride,sure you can see around now but but you have as little control over the bike as the stupid fuckers with arms locked straight up to hi-apes
you absolutely must have significant bent realxed shoulder and elbows to properly control a motorcycle.period
put some regular handlebars on the fucking thing and enjoy riding again sure the %^^&'S on twittergram wont think your pose is gay enough but who cares
your seating position and bars should be closer to a ADV MX DIRT dirt bike(SEE DAKAR AND SUPERMOTOS) than a gp ROADRACE bike if you want to go fast safely and comfortably ON PUBLIC ROADS
also the old honda perch has a very poor pivot high load on a small hinge pon

I'll play around with the position too then, rotate levers down a bit more. Yes, buzzing around the twisty roads near home is precisely what I built this bike for and it's freak'n awesome for that. Don't really care about poserism, would prefer to ride alone anyway and not be seen at all would be ideal, if there's no one to see you there's no one to hit you! Although I will admit should have another bike for lazy cruisin around. Oh darn, another bike. 8)

right on you dint even flinch ;D
yeah the ends of your bars need to drop down angle,they proly need more sweep back and your seat is way too low raise it about 4 '' you want and be to be up on top of the bike,your ass up and back not down in it if going with the pegs and bars the way they are
getting your body mass center up higher over the bike will improve its response and handling as well
and then you could raise up the pegs as well get some lean angle back to that thang
here is an example of perfect arm and body positioning , my late close friend john woo,mx'er turned superbike pilot....

of course the superbikes were not allowed to use clip ons but they slithered bucked and shook so much off the corners clip ons would have been a handicap
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/archive/1982sears/2/woo.htm

side view, FWIW

Clip ons require a strong core for the street and Stomp Grip. As others have said rotate your controls down so you're not having to "reach up" to the lever.

XVRacer said:

Clip ons require a strong core for the street and Stomp Grip. As others have said rotate your controls down so you're not having to "reach up" to the lever.

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I rotated the clutch lever way down. Seems more natural. Guess I'd better start working out again, just so I can ride my bike! One more day to scoot around tomorrow.

These things are pretty cheap:





http://www.ebay.com/itm/900MM-35-FOLD-HYDRAULIC-CLUTCH-LEVER-MASTER-CYLINDER-22MM-PIT-DIRT-BIKES-ATV-B-/252106740642?hash=item3ab2bb93a2:g:GZcAAOSwHjNWCV0q&vxp=mtr

watching this.

hillsy said:

These things are pretty cheap:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/900MM-35-FOLD-HYDRAULIC-CLUTCH-LEVER-MASTER-CYLINDER-22MM-PIT-DIRT-BIKES-ATV-B-/252106740642?hash=item3ab2bb93a2:g:GZcAAOSwHjNWCV0q&vxp=mtr

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I will be ordering one of these to review, never seen it until now.