Rear brake/ exhaust clash

teazer said:

The thing is that the rod has to be as straight as possible. The more bent it is, the harder it is to transfer effort from the pedal to the brake. As the rod straightens up, that's lost effort.

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One of the things we used to do on small MX bikes was put a bend in brake rod so the wheel didn't lock as easy and stall motor ;D
I still disagree about flipping lever at brake plate, I haven't done a drawing to explain why yet though (maybe in another 6~8 months)

True, but his options are very limited. Its a small bike, cable will be ok if build right.
I guess cable just gives him a little more options. If it's no brake or cable, i'd go with cable

Nothing wrong with cable operation, it's reversing rotation of operating cam when lever is pointing up instead of down

crazypj said:

Nothing wrong with cable operation, it's reversing rotation of operating cam when lever is pointing up instead of down

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i believe the main reason brake cam arms are positioned is for application of overall design.my sl350 pulls over the axle as opposed to cb/cl which pull under
clearance for a rut on a trail is a good reason not to have it running low..
of course right now we are discussing a sls brake one trailing one leading shoe
most of these that i have seen have the cam centered in the contact pads of the shoes which brings an interesting aspect in the deal..
one shoe i THINK has very slightly more travel....
depending upon direction of rotation the cam lever is either for or against zee spinning wheel,trailing or leading shoe can get this difference in travel/leverage depending on the configuration
What goes up, must come down
spinning wheel... got to go round
Talking about your troubles it's a crying sin
Ride a painted pony 8)
Let the spinning wheel spinnnnnnnn

butt-eye digress
the only exception was yamahas highly touted one year only(1980) YZ sls front brake with offset cam,i think what they were doing was give the trailing shoe even more travel as it was already on the outer cam surface
but i am not sure exactly maybe it was just a different cam,maybe the leading shoe was given mo travel i dunno
of course as everybody knows next year yamaha went 2ls on their yz racing production bikes,as did the other oems that wanted to go fast and sell mx'ers

You got it.
Trailing shoe normally gets extra leverage from 'top' of cam while leading shoe gets less leverage from bottom. Probably around 1" total (width of cam contact points)
With lever operating 'wrong' direction' your pretty much only using one brake shoe

Alright guys!

I've a welder who said he can make some bushings up for me no problem, so I'll be hunting for some bicycle stems as soon as I'm home from my holidays (9 days in Europe on my gpz500), so I'll let you all know how things go!

leprechaun_sean said:

Alright guys!

I've a welder who said he can make some bushings up for me no problem, so I'll be hunting for some bicycle stems as soon as I'm home from my holidays (9 days in Europe on my gpz500), so I'll let you all know how things go!

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Europe? Where you at?

I would guess Ireland from the screen name?
Could be anywhere in UK though as he wouldn't say Europe if he was already in 'continental Europe'
Also CJ 250 was real common in Britain, not too sure about the rest of the world?

crazypj said:

You got it.
Trailing shoe normally gets extra leverage from 'top' of cam while leading shoe gets less leverage from bottom. Probably around 1" total (width of cam contact points)
With lever operating 'wrong' direction' your pretty much only using one brake shoe

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all righty then,i may just roachtate the brake plate,flop the lever and try it with trailing shoo "cam-hi"
on another note the contact radius of the cam on some i have seen have a full radius as opposed to others that have a pretty tight radius
it seams with a larger radius it would have an easier time applying force as the sliding surface contact patch friction is reduced..although ovrerall travel is reduced before the dreaded over-center lockage
in fact i think what i will try instead of going thru all the above work fiddling with levers, longer stayarm etc, is just increase the radius on the leading shoe on mine, reduce slightly the shoe travel
i have an extra brake assembly ,i'll bench-test it with a cupl indicators before and after,rally the only way for us to know what is excactly hapnin"
i got a new set of ebc shoes,same as whats in there now so plenty of shite to ruin
i have been soooo tempted to put on my o so light and sexy 18" 40 spoke borrani barnes quick change with a small disc

I'm in the UK, just outside Birmingham, but my parents are both Irish

I'm fairly sure the CJ was only sold in the UK, and only for a couple of years at that!

leprechaun_sean said:

I'm in the UK, just outside Birmingham, but my parents are both Irish

I'm fairly sure the CJ was only sold in the UK, and only for a couple of years at that!

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Ah ok, close by then relatively spoken. I'm at the other side of the pond, Netherlands. Shipping costs are ok between EU, so maybe i can help you out one day. I have CNC machines for steel and alu to my disposal.
Add 'outsiders motorcycles' on facebook to check it out

Guys, it's a rear brake. The theoretical difference in cam effect/leverage is largely a non-event. It's only there for emergencies or really wet weather or snow on the road.

Flip the lever, grab a Suzuki GT cable and go for it.

Teazer, if you're only using the front brake on a daily basis please tell me you're on the organ donor list...

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cgadaleta said:

Teazer, if you're only using the front brake on a daily basis please tell me you're on the organ donor list...

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Are you for real?
The rear brake is only to 'steady' the bike, minimum of 70% is from front brake although under real heavy braking with decent brakes it often goes to 100% on front wheel
It's real easy to manage without a rear brake but impossible to manage without front

The rear brakes pull the ass end of the bike down alowing you to apply more force with front, they aren't essential for stopping but they are for riding properly, if you're not in the habbit of doing it on the daily, when you need it in an emergency it isnt first instinct or "muscle memory".

So yes, I am for real. When some asshole pulls out on you you need all the help you can get.

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After more than a half million miles on the street and a few years racing, (no idea how many thousands of miles racing) I think I've got the general idea.

cgadaleta said:

The rear brakes pull the ass end of the bike down alowing you to apply more force with front, they aren't essential for stopping but they are for riding properly, if you're not in the habbit of doing it on the daily, when you need it in an emergency it isnt first instinct or "muscle memory".

So yes, I am for real. When some asshole pulls out on you you need all the help you can get.

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Sorry but that's not correct. The rear brake cannot "pull the back end down" however well it operates. Any braking action causes a weight shift from front to rear and the rear wheel in a hard brake situation is either off the ground or close to that situation. Very little braking force can be applied through the rear brake - even under dry conditions - UNLESS we are talking one very heavy bike with significant rear end weight bias.

Light bikes and race bikes use the back brake to steady things if necessary in slippy conditions and to control; engine revs if necessary.

Muscle memory used to cause me to apply a rear brake and lock it up when I started racing so I taught that foot to stay asleep and not get involved where it does no good.

Will there ever be a situation where the rear brake might help a little? Probably, but if I'm stomping on the rear brake in an emergency, all I'm doing is decreasing my control over my bike and that isn't something I need.

What we actually need to learn to do is to squeeze the front on so that the weight shifts forward and cause more force to be applied to the front wheel and gradually apply more brake as the front end digs in. Just grabbing the front brake lever causes the wheel to stop rotating and that is closely followed by crunchy noises.

The major problem is the US training courses still advocate rear brake only and 'lay the bike down' to avoid crash whereas the 'rest of the world' say use front brake with cadence braking to stop, steer, etc
It's pretty damn difficult to stay calm in a panic situation but your usually going quite slow if front is used properly - 130+ to less than 40mph really doesn't take very long at all at 1g+ deceleration, but, like everything, you have to practice (wearing earbuds, listening to music, riding so slow you get bored are all BAD THINGS that lead to 'accidents')