"Tangerine Dream" / Glemseck - KZ750

Timely advice - thanx.

I found one supplier from Shenzhen - price £50 including carriage ! How do they do it?

I'll definitely use one for the turbo oil scavenge. Unfortunately it looks like the turbo oil return feed is going to be too low to rely on gravity - futtox.

I've mailed the supplier to see if they can specify the delivery pressure ( for the oil cooler / turbo ) as that's pretty critical for turbo life.

I've pulled the trigger on the GSXR 600 pump - only £15 ! If it's not going to work, a pal will have it off me for one of his car projects ( diff oil cooler ).

It's only the dimension to the pump drive centerline which is critical for internal fitting. Maybe !!
 
UK Mark ....... thanx mate - finally getting round to using your heat shield !!

All my random bends arriving Monday - hopefully there'll be enough to do a good job [ not ME BTW ! ]



 
Hey, you're welcome. Glad to see it put to good use.

If you braze or weld nuts onto the pipe you have, that's how I fitted Mk 2 version on mine. That helped set it away from the pipe just right to get a decent air gap.
 
UK Mark said:
Hey, you're welcome. Glad to see it put to good use.

If you braze or weld nuts onto the pipe you have, that's how I fitted Mk 2 version on mine. That helped set it away from the pipe just right to get a decent air gap.

Thanx Mark - be proud to use it

So, while the "dry sump" idea was rattling around in my head, I thought I'd do a bit more research.

Then it struck me - how do peeps get on turbo'ing a two stroke with NO oil sump ???

Up into my "library" in the loft and I sorted out an old USA volume on turbocharging.

And -result, there's a chapter devoted to 2 stroke turbos - AND more importantly, the dry sump oil solution !!

So I'm not reinventing the wheel, just refining it. At least there's a precedent for what I'm planning.

That does now seem the obvious ( and simple ) way to go.

I need to devise a drive for the Gixer oil pump ( probably the points side ). The alternator side would be better, but would require an oil seal. We'll see.
 
Overthinking this - the answer is yes . ::) ::)

Always erring on the side of caution as I have all my design and manufacturing life, I was concerned that there might not be enough capacity from the stock pump output / oil reservoir.

However now I have the relevant figures to hand - 48 psi @ 4000rpm @ 90 degrees c.

However the important figure is the psi at which the bye pass opens, which is 57 psi AND the pump is capable of putting out more than 75 psi, which is the pressure the relief valve opens.

With a stock capacity of 4 ltrs. I would want to increase that by maybe 25%, which just happens to be the capacity of the oil cooler I have just found in my garage ! ;D

So, being kept awake most of the night with the remnants of this flu like lurgi [ 4 weeks now ], I had plenty of time to think about options - better than counting sheep. ;)

I am now looking at the following scenario - mechanical [ Gixer ] oil pump externally driven from the points side feeding direct the oil cooler with a tee off to the turbo, and returning the oil via one of the breather holes [ inside the breather tower ].

That still leaves the oil return from the turbo, which will probably go to a 1.5 ltr reservoir and then back to the crankcase. An alternative would be to double the input to the pump - one the feed from the sump, the other the turbo oil return. That means I don't need a separate scavenge pump.

I'll be doing a schematic in the next 48 hours to convince myself or not - and I'll post up the results.
 
Bonus with the Gixer oil pump.

It arrived today. I did not know - but it has TWO feeds - one is high volume for oil cooling [ internal ] and the other is high pressure for the main engine bearings etc. This is for the patented Suzuki SCAS oil cooled system.

What are the chances of that being EXACTLY what I need ! Oil cooler AND turbo supply - happy.

I just have to devise [ and get made ! ] a drive from the points central bolt.

I have a plan to mount the pump AND oil cooler under the sump - with protection of course.

The pump has plenty of output for my needs - and even a scavenge for the Turbo oil return. It looks like this system could easily be adapted and retrofitted to stock bikes [ non-turbo of course! ]
 
Re: "Tangerine Dream" / Glemseck - KZ750

What a score with that pump working out just how you needed it. I love it when a plan comes together.
 
Brodie said:
What a score with that pump working out just how you needed it. I love it when a plan comes together.

Brodie - this project is growing legs all on it's own ! Seems every which way I decide to go, the bike gods are smiling on me !

I looked at several pumps - both car and bike, but the guys selling the Gixer pump I bought were the only ones who could be arsed to take measurements for me ! They also threw in some extra discount [ postage ] when I told them what the project was all about. Some nice peeps out there. BTW - pump was £18 delivered.
 
So - none of the Suzuki experts could tell me the direction of rotation of the pump !!!

After some head scratching, I jury rigged some hose from the intake into a jar of petrol [ don't try this at home kiddies ] and spun the spindle end with my power drill using the chuck tightened on the spindle !

Well, I can confirm that the pump is very efficient ! A litre of petrol was sprayed over the shed - and me, in very short order. ::)

However, I did manage to confirm that the pump rotates clockwise from the sprocket end - making my installation that much easier. ;D
 
Well actually - it doesn't ............... I ASSUMED that the KZ [ like 90% of ICE engines ]runs clockwise viewed from the right. Or like most car engines clockwise viewed from the front !!

Thanx to Carsten over on the German KZ750 site for pointing out the error of my thinking !! It actually runs counterclockwise. :-[ Fiendish Japanese. :mad:

Here is my excuse [ apart from a lifelong experience of clockwise rotating engines ! ] - apart from a 20 minute ride on a pal's bike, I have no experience of a living, breathing engine. My engine has been dead on the bench since I bought the project 6 years ago and to date - I have never even looked inside ! ::)

Oh yes, my BMW Kay engines ran counterclockwise.

It would have become obvious when my new OEM workshop manual arrives next week, but Carsten has saved me a whole lot of trouble with my pump - even though it is easily remedied.

In fact, driving from the alternator side makes the packaging / installation a lot more simple, apart from a suitable oil seal.

So - suitably embarrassed at my own lack of knowledge - public thanx to Carsten. ;)
 
Re: "Tangerine Dream" / Glemseck - KZ750

Haha had to laugh about the pump test. I have been in a few situations like that.
 
I hope this now starts to make sense. Rolleyes

Drive will be taken from alternator centre screw, but will require an oil seal on the cover plate - maybe a new plate ?

I was going to get a sump made for the turbo oil return [ quote £55 ]- then came across this on Chinabay - £25 delivered ! Fits in perfectly under swingarm [ behind engine ] and is 2 litres capacity - ideal.

I might move the oil pump forward to just above the oil filter housing - just depends on the hosing routes.

I was looking at modifying the oil cooler I found in my garage. The Fittings are £15 - a NEW cooler WITH fittings from Chinabay £18 !

Decided to upgrade to the cooler with swivel 10 AN hose fittings .......... £29.00 !! Hose fittings alone in the UK £37.00

Schematic for oiling system now roughly sketched and just waiting for my approval ! Wink
 

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And here is the rough schematic [ auxiliary system only ].

The Gixer pump is shown here externally mounted, but when I open the motor up, I will be able to see if there's room to mount it inside - similar to ChrisLWG's conversion.

Remember the sketch is schematic layout - the oil cooler will live underneath the engine and provide an additional 1 ltr of oil. Oh yes, and the turbo oil sump is NOT filled with oil, simply acts as a reservoir for the returning turbo oil.

I managed to sell my spare V6 Volvo engine and 3 x gearboxes last weekend. That frees up much needed space in my garage - and some fighting funds for the project. 8)

That means I can now clear a path to my bike stand, and more importantly - the KZ engine that 's been sat on it for 12 months !

Then it's sump and side covers off so I can at last get a good look inside. MY OEM WORKSHOP MANUAL ARRIVES TODAY / TOMORROW - so no excuses now about what's what and how it functions. ::)
 

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Nice progress Beach! Fighting for space is one of my battles as well. I like the sketch, really helps visualize your plan.
 
CC,

It will be much simpler / neater IF there is room inside AND I can get direct drive alignment from the OEM pump drive wheel. Hopefully I can get my original engine opened up in the next 2 weeks.
 
Just so I have all my options to hand after I get the motor opened up, I pulled the trigger on this little [ not so little ! ] gem from Chinabay.

Just under £50 delivered [ FOUR days ! ] it looks very well made and comes from the preferred provinces !

What isn't obvious from the pix is the fact it's very substantial - ie - a big fucka ! :eek:

Around 4 lbs weight and about the size of a KZ starter motor.

So now I can contemplate several options depending on if there is room inside the crankcases for the Gixer pump. I hope so - as I now have THREE of them [ don't ask ]. ::)
 

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canyoncarver said:
I'm asking.. ;) three pumps?

CC,

You know how it goes when you are bidding on several items ????? !!!!!!!

That's how I got 2 of them. The third one ? At £8 including the drive wheel and relief valve - no brainer. Especially as another supplier wanted £20 for those two items on their own.

All 3 are in excellent condition - at least I have plenty of spars now !
 
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